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Caracal - Needs more beef!

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Captain Sonata	Posted - 2007.09.19 01:26:00 - [1] The Caracal looks like an anorexic American celebrity. Yet, it somehow manages to pull more weight(@ 13,750,000 kg) than any non Caldari ship in the game. It is the 2nd heaviest cruiser vessel in the game behind the Blackbird(which weights a whopping 14,000,000kg). So what gives? Re-model the Caracal to make it a chubby missile launcher. or Reduce its weight to about 10,000,000kg to match its size. Here is a real life Caracal: Image Link Here is the in game Caracal: Image Link How in the world is this ship the heaviest and the slowest in the game?
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.09.19 01:30:00 - [2] game balance - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Magazaki	Posted - 2007.09.19 05:08:00 - [3] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari game balance Like hell it is... Weighing more than a BC?? "Remnants of the past" is more like it...
Marcus Starr Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 06:05:00 - [4] Yes, unnerf us Caldari. If anything, we should be the second if not first most agile and light race of races.
Onewingedangel Minmatar Shadows of the Dead	Posted - 2007.09.19 06:31:00 - [5] Edited by: Onewingedangel on 19/09/2007 06:33:54 Edited by: Onewingedangel on 19/09/2007 06:33:22 You really think you should be lighter and faster than the minmatar eh? Cereally, different races have different abilities. Minmatar are built around speed, if you want to be the lightest and the fastest, then train minmatar and don't ***** about a slow cruiser.
Marcus Starr Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 08:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Onewingedangel Edited by: Onewingedangel on 19/09/2007 06:33:54 Edited by: Onewingedangel on 19/09/2007 06:33:22 You really think you should be lighter and faster than the minmatar eh? Cereally, different races have different abilities. Minmatar are built around speed, if you want to be the lightest and the fastest, then train minmatar and don't ***** about a slow cruiser. First off, I didn't say anything about being the fastest. Second, I did say second was fine. Third, I do have a character that flies Minmatar. Thank you, come again (or preferably not)!
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.09.19 08:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Marcus Starr Originally by: Onewingedangel Edited by: Onewingedangel on 19/09/2007 06:33:54 Edited by: Onewingedangel on 19/09/2007 06:33:22 You really think you should be lighter and faster than the minmatar eh? Cereally, different races have different abilities. Minmatar are built around speed, if you want to be the lightest and the fastest, then train minmatar and don't ***** about a slow cruiser. First off, I didn't say anything about being the fastest. Second, I did say second was fine. Third, I do have a character that flies Minmatar. Thank you, come again (or preferably not)! 2e yeh? IMO: Minmatar fastest, gallente 2e, amarr 3e and the race that is specialised @longrange combat should be teh slowest. I aint saying you should be slow in the current way, but still the slowest. Other races need the speed more. If caldari went ZOOOM ZOOOOOM, how the hell is any blastership (not the i-win pwn yo vessel) gonna catch up? How the hell would gallente and ammar damage caldari and minmatar. Currently only minmatar has hard to hit ships that can flee, BUT these vessels suffer from there own speed. You dont see a vagabond orbit with mwd on, its off. Now imagine a cerberus with no tracking issues moving with 5-6 km/s invunerable for missiles and most gunfire dealing good dps. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Iyachtu Achlysiel Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.09.19 08:46:00 - [8] If Caldari were anywhere near as fast and agile as Minmatar, they might be a bit overpowered. Enemy using autocannons, blasters or pulses? Speed out of his reach, firing volleys of missiles. He's using long-range weapons instead? Go orbit him up close and blast him to shreds with the nice little missiles that work just as well at short range. Right now this Caldari ability to fight equally well at close and mid ranges isn't much of an advantage, because generally it's the guy in some other empire's ship that dictates the range with his superior speed. I'd love a slight boost to speed and a little cut from mass, but it'd be real easy to overdo. They're fine the way they are as well, though.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.19 09:53:00 - [9] He didnt ask for a buff, he just said they could bring the ships model in line with its weight, thats all. Originally by: Captian Internet Did some one say IBTL? because I think I just heard some one say IBTL
MotoTsume Gallente Clan Black Scorpion	Posted - 2007.09.19 10:00:00 - [10] WHERE'S THE BEEF??????????????? sorry couldn't resist. ---------- www.mototsume.ca It's just a game........Or is it?
Drixy	Posted - 2007.09.19 10:02:00 - [11] Edited by: Drixy on 19/09/2007 10:01:52 just give the caldari ships 1000% more hull HP, since they appear to be made out of solid metal, I wonder where do they even stick the pilot in in those solid hunks of tritanium
Deacon Ix Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.09.19 11:14:00 - [12] I have always been a bit bemused my Caldari ships and their mass Caldari ships are Sheild tankers, IMO they should have a Big Sig raduis (they do) and small mass Gallente/Amarr are Armour Tankers, Large mass (all those layers of plate) and A relativly smaller sig radius My thoughts on speed 1) Minmater 2) Caldari 3) Gallente 4) Amarr I would like to see ship follow the Following logic Speed is proportional to Mass Mass is Proportional to Armour HP Sig Radius is proportional to Shield HP Minmater are alwasy a trcky one with the mix of Shield tanking and Armour tanking and might need a bit of a fiddle to fit with the above and retain their Speed Tanking status Originally by: Steini OFSI The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.
Marcus Starr Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 11:44:00 - [13] You know, I really don't care if Caldari missile ships are as slow as they are now, but it would be nice if they were more agile, and had lower mass for when we activate our MWDs or ABs just to be able to keep up with our targets for even just a little while.
Klavayne Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 11:44:00 - [14] Edited by: Klavayne on 19/09/2007 11:44:21 Why the picture of the real life caracal? Do you want the ship to be able to jump really high in game, as cool as that would be for dodging gun-fire i'm not sure how it would work.
Igualmentedos	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Onewingedangel Edited by: Onewingedangel on 19/09/2007 06:33:54 Edited by: Onewingedangel on 19/09/2007 06:33:22 You really think you should be lighter and faster than the minmatar eh? Cereally, different races have different abilities. Minmatar are built around speed, if you want to be the lightest and the fastest, then train minmatar and don't ***** about a slow cruiser. I think he means he wants caldari to be as fast as gallente. Which I completley agree with, slow bricks of suck are annoying to fly.
Igualmentedos	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Deacon Ix I have always been a bit bemused my Caldari ships and their mass Caldari ships are Sheild tankers, IMO they should have a Big Sig raduis (they do) and small mass Gallente/Amarr are Armour Tankers, Large mass (all those layers of plate) and A relativly smaller sig radius My thoughts on speed 1) Minmater 2) Caldari 3) Gallente 4) Amarr I would like to see ship follow the Following logic Speed is proportional to Mass Mass is Proportional to Armour HP Sig Radius is proportional to Shield HP Minmater are alwasy a trcky one with the mix of Shield tanking and Armour tanking and might need a bit of a fiddle to fit with the above and retain their Speed Tanking status /SIGN Please make this happen CCP.
Yamaeda Amarr	Posted - 2007.09.19 13:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Captain Sonata Re-model the Caracal to make it a chubby missile launcher. Agreed, it should look more like a fat vulture, closer to the Prophecy aka Phat Duck. /Y ---------- It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Valea Wrath Of Khaine Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 14:54:00 - [18] /signed, I don't need more speed, just less mass and faster turning
Captain Schmungles Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:23:00 - [19] So, to understand your complaint fully: You are complaining that a ship that can hit at over 90km with its missiles (assuming good skills and a sensor booster), and deal full damage at that range, should also be faster and more manuverable? Give me a break. Once upon a time, in the early days of Eve, Caldari ships were the lightest, fastest, and most manuverable ships in the game. They were missile boats, as they are today. This created a very problematic balance issue. A caracal could, for example, orbit a Thorax at max velocity and suffer no penalty to its dps. On the other hand, no other ship could do this without a corresponding loss to dps. So, CCP nerfed the Caldari ships by making them the heaviest ships in the game, and quite frankly it was a very needed nerf, and things are fine the way they are. You want speed and manuverability in a missile boat? Go fly a 'phoon, or better yet a Macherial.
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:30:00 - [20] Well for all the "omg fast caldari? overpwness!!": GET YOURSELF A TACKLER!! muahaha wow i finally could say it... everytime all the non-caldari people say "well you have to get a tackler to play caldari!"... well, why shouldnt bring other people a tackler to kill the caldari ship?
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:31:00 - [21] Edited by: NoNah on 19/09/2007 16:32:40 I don't suppose you'd see a problem with having extreme ranges (and/or no tracking) and high speed on the same ships? Besides, if you think more beef would make it faster, you seriously need to visit a nutritionist. Postcount: 512505
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:32:00 - [22] Originally by: NoNah I don't suppose you'd see a problem with having extreme ranges (and/or no tracking) and high speed on the same ships? What does it help? Extreme range -> no scramble
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Benn Helmsman Originally by: NoNah I don't suppose you'd see a problem with having extreme ranges (and/or no tracking) and high speed on the same ships? What does it help? Extreme range -> no scramble Bubbles, tacklers and up to 30km+ scram range on a solocruiser should be saying enough. And the fact that no other craft would be able to do anything to it? 99% resistance to all wouldn't kill any other ships would it, thus it must be balanced to give someone? Postcount: 160045
Kala Veijo Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:41:00 - [24] Could use one more lowslot. Warp Wind, CSM Chapter blog.
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:42:00 - [25] Although this has already been discussed to death in another thread...I'll repeat what someone else made a point to post. Back in the day when you could fit dual MWD's and torps (among other things) were ridiculous, caldari ship mass was increased (probably by a bit too much) to balance this. Now, that the dual MWD issue has been fixed, and all of the other issues have been addressed, Caldari ships are still both the slowest and the heaviest of all the races. This means they are much much less versatile than their quicker counterparts. Moreover, speed doesn't = overpowered caldari anyway, since when one is at that magical mid range that caldari excel at, you are totally unable to warpscram/web. The sheer fact is that caldari ships are caught far too easily since they are incredibly slow to align and cannot keep range at all. This combined with the fact that fitting AB/MWD on a caldari ship = having little to no tank...yeah....caldari are slow. I really don't care too much tbh...I manage fine as it is. But it would be nice if the mass was reduced so caldari actually get normal bonuses from AB/MWD and can actually align/accelerate a bit faster. It feels like I'm flying a bathtub when I get in a caldari battleship.
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:46:00 - [26] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Benn Helmsman Originally by: NoNah I don't suppose you'd see a problem with having extreme ranges (and/or no tracking) and high speed on the same ships? What does it help? Extreme range -> no scramble Bubbles, tacklers and up to 30km+ scram range on a solocruiser should be saying enough. And the fact that no other craft would be able to do anything to it? 99% resistance to all wouldn't kill any other ships would it, thus it must be balanced to give someone? Bubbles? What? Tackler? Bring your own: win 30km+ scrambler? Well would be nice, but have you already tried to fit an mwd-caracal? You run into a lot of problems if you try that: extrem low cap recharge, low PG, running out of midslots without any other tank then speed.
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:54:00 - [27] yarr Boost The Eagle!
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Deacon Ix I have always been a bit bemused my Caldari ships and their mass Caldari ships are Sheild tankers, IMO they should have a Big Sig raduis (they do) and small mass Gallente/Amarr are Armour Tankers, Large mass (all those layers of plate) and A relativly smaller sig radius My thoughts on speed 1) Minmater 2) Caldari 3) Gallente 4) Amarr I would like to see ship follow the Following logic Speed is proportional to Mass Mass is Proportional to Armour HP Sig Radius is proportional to Shield HP Minmater are alwasy a trcky one with the mix of Shield tanking and Armour tanking and might need a bit of a fiddle to fit with the above and retain their Speed Tanking status Yay I get to make up another fantasy reason for game balance hmz..... I know! Shield generators have lots of super high density materials in them making them really heavy when you beef them up --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.19 17:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Arana Tellen Originally by: Deacon Ix I have always been a bit bemused my Caldari ships and their mass Caldari ships are Sheild tankers, IMO they should have a Big Sig raduis (they do) and small mass Gallente/Amarr are Armour Tankers, Large mass (all those layers of plate) and A relativly smaller sig radius My thoughts on speed 1) Minmater 2) Caldari 3) Gallente 4) Amarr I would like to see ship follow the Following logic Speed is proportional to Mass Mass is Proportional to Armour HP Sig Radius is proportional to Shield HP Minmater are alwasy a trcky one with the mix of Shield tanking and Armour tanking and might need a bit of a fiddle to fit with the above and retain their Speed Tanking status Yay I get to make up another fantasy reason for game balance hmz..... I know! Shield generators have lots of super high density materials in them making them really heavy when you beef them up So you're saying that Minnie shields are uber next to Caldari shields? The Cyclone gets a shield boost bonus, more shields, more armor, more guns, more damage, more everything ... and weighs less than a Caracal. ;-) Liang Yarr?
EvilSpork	Posted - 2007.09.19 19:04:00 - [30] /signed i support either a slightly more agile caracal (reduced mass to be in line with the model and slightly buff the caracal. it really is a brick and cant tank lol) or a new caracal model that retains its look, but is more bulky to fit its mass. neither change should effect gameplay much and are certainly not unfounded. reducing the mass wont make it a solowtfpwnmobile by any means. though it may enable a slight speed tank with a mwd, which i view as good.

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