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Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:05:00 - [61] I am fairly certain that the criminal hacking statutes are slightly more relevant than Sun Tzu when it comes to computer intrusion. Was Sun Tzu a hacker?
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:05:00 - [62] Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 20:08:52 Originally by: Areena Shay Originally by: Kaldaine Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 19:22:53 Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Pezzle Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game. I really REALLY hope you refering to TS hacking has nothing to do with rise TS or else you should just delete your post its ok Ill edit this one too if you still want to save face. Goonswarm and RISE arent the only alliances to play eve stop taking everything personally. You prolly should not post at all and can try to delete yours but Im gonna leave mine up cause you are dumb and I would like the world to know. Yes your so right I see the errors of my way. Please let me know one other TS hacking incident in oh a year and ill submit to your obvious superior intellect. Let me point out you're (note the 're its a contraction of you are this is just an example for you) errors. You imply actually you say that what we did to RISE was hacking when in fact it was poor security on the part of RISE and a bunch of Goons getting their hands on the TS password. Along with this there have been several incidents in the last year although I believe only one (I think it was to CoW or someone from the North) was a direct, malicious attack from an outside group. Finally nowhere in his post did Pezzle mention Goonswarm, BoB, ASCN, RISE or anyone else who has been targeted by "attacks", which to me is most indicative that he was not actually talking about anyone even though he also just posted to that effect. Hopefully, with your obviously inferior intellect your next post consists of you putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger, ie vis a vis eg ipso facto kill yourself. So in other words, you agree that you did invade their TS. You agree you did it with the intent to malign their TS services. Of course, what you did when you got there is the issue. Did you malign the TS server or did you simply listen? Using the "but Bob did it to me first" defense as justification to do it to someone else is ridiculous. Everything I said about the poster I quoted applies to you as well. Goons got hold of their password, ran around on their teamspeak for a bit and then got kicked off. If someone has extremely lax teamspeak security measures Im not going to feel very sorry for them seeing as basic measures would have prevented most of it. It wasnt malicious, it didnt disrupt an op or their TS for an extended period. You are more then welcome to come onto the goonswarm TS server, I know BoB has the info because we have given it to them, inviting them on. They never come . I dont really feel the need to justify the actions of others so Im not going to. You said you were neutral in this but I dont really see it as you seem to hate us for finding the password to someones teamspeak and logging on. Seeing as that is about the worst thing we have done to anyones server or forums and that much worse has happened Im confused as to why your panties are in such a twist.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:06:00 - [63] Originally by: Areena Shay So in other words, you agree that you did invade their TS. You agree you did it with the intent to malign their TS services. Of course, what you did when you got there is the issue. Did you malign the TS server or did you simply listen? Using the "but Bob did it to me first" defense as justification to do it to someone else is ridiculous. the bigger question, is did they obtain personal information about the other guys and then post it on eve-o, with the intention of causing them financial and emotional hardships? methinks the eye of terror is skeering you. whether it's the new eden one or 40k one, i'm unsure.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:09:00 - [64] Originally by: Areena Shay I am fairly certain that the criminal hacking statutes are slightly more relevant than Sun Tzu when it comes to computer intrusion. Was Sun Tzu a hacker? i do not think hacking sun tzu means what you think it means. and sun tzu had many many spies and his initial group of generals, after his split with the established aristocratic generals -- were boiled alive. sun tzu would approve of hacking IF he hadn't already destroyed his enemy utterly.
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:13:00 - [65] I am personally very happy that Sun Tzu would approve of hacking. So when a corp hacks another TS server again, they can defend themselves from criminal sanctions by declaring the "Sun Tzu" defense! Good stuff.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:33:00 - [66] Originally by: Areena Shay I am personally very happy that Sun Tzu would approve of hacking. So when a corp hacks another TS server again, they can defend themselves from criminal sanctions by declaring the "Sun Tzu" defense! Good stuff. Thanks for the mental imagery. Now, I will go brush my blond bangs from my eyes and proceed to poke them out with the nearest sharp instrument! but um, what are you talking about hacking? did your spy argument fail too much and now you're trying to find one example of one time that someone guessed a pw for a ts server (versus being given one) and harp on that until time ends? fail. as usual.
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:35:00 - [67] You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:38:00 - [68] Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. you're right. because that pw wouldn't be given on a forum, or any type of mail, or any any medium that a spy would possible conceive to record... need i say it? Thanks for the mental imagery. Now, I will go brush my blond bangs from my eyes and proceed to poke them out with the nearest sharp instrument!
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:52:00 - [69] Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Your infallible logic has smashed my arguements in the face and I will never be able to recover. Quite obviously the easiest way onto someones teamspeak is to hack their server to allow anyone who wants to get on because the passwords are super secret and impossible to get ahold of. Your arguement is so dumb it leads me to believe you shouldnt even be in a room alone much less posting on the internet.
Hennry Fromer Gallente radiated space gerbils	Posted - 2007.10.02 23:11:00 - [70] We find spying is bad, so all corp members being brain surgeons we open peoples skulls remove their brains, then implants them into chimps or other lower primates and interrogate them. The only downside is when you have a bunch of them on the table - darn stickle notes won't stick to grey matter, and our test with staples had one person loose their sense of humor permanently. To our shock some alliances seem to have developed a counter method as the last three members we tried this on from an un-named alliance we discovered only cream cheese in the cranial cavity. When the games becomes your life time to phone a friend or a therapist.
Rudy Metallo Sanguine Raiders	Posted - 2007.10.02 23:15:00 - [71] Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 02/10/2007 23:15:53 Originally by: Kaldaine Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 20:08:52 Originally by: Areena Shay Originally by: Kaldaine Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 19:22:53 Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Pezzle Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game. I really REALLY hope you refering to TS hacking has nothing to do with rise TS or else you should just delete your post its ok Ill edit this one too if you still want to save face. Goonswarm and RISE arent the only alliances to play eve stop taking everything personally. You prolly should not post at all and can try to delete yours but Im gonna leave mine up cause you are dumb and I would like the world to know. Yes your so right I see the errors of my way. Please let me know one other TS hacking incident in oh a year and ill submit to your obvious superior intellect. Let me point out you're (note the 're its a contraction of you are this is just an example for you) errors. You imply actually you say that what we did to RISE was hacking when in fact it was poor security on the part of RISE and a bunch of Goons getting their hands on the TS password. Along with this there have been several incidents in the last year although I believe only one (I think it was to CoW or someone from the North) was a direct, malicious attack from an outside group. Finally nowhere in his post did Pezzle mention Goonswarm, BoB, ASCN, RISE or anyone else who has been targeted by "attacks", which to me is most indicative that he was not actually talking about anyone even though he also just posted to that effect. Hopefully, with your obviously inferior intellect your next post consists of you putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger, ie vis a vis eg ipso facto kill yourself. So in other words, you agree that you did invade their TS. You agree you did it with the intent to malign their TS services. Of course, what you did when you got there is the issue. Did you malign the TS server or did you simply listen? Using the "but Bob did it to me first" defense as justification to do it to someone else is ridiculous. Everything I said about the poster I quoted applies to you as well. Goons got hold of their password, ran around on their teamspeak for a bit and then got kicked off. If someone has extremely lax teamspeak security measures Im not going to feel very sorry for them seeing as basic measures would have prevented most of it. It wasnt malicious, it didnt disrupt an op or their TS for an extended period. You are more then welcome to come onto the goonswarm TS server, I know BoB has the info because we have given it to them, inviting them on. They never come . I dont really feel the need to justify the actions of others so Im not going to. You said you were neutral in this but I dont really see it as you seem to hate us for finding the password to someones teamspeak and logging on. Seeing as that is about the worst thing we have done to anyones server or forums and that much worse has happened Im confused as to why your panties are in such a twist. Just wanted to see if I should get that first post any thinner. oh, and spying is lame. Say what?
Devian 666 Sectoid Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.03 00:45:00 - [72] Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. You have established that you know nothing about spying. Fail. Come back when you are more familiar with the real world than your fantasies. I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain.
Postlatta Mouseanon Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.10.03 04:03:00 - [73] Edited by: Postlatta Mouseanon on 03/10/2007 04:04:01 Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Well the address the issue from the standpoint of reality, it doesn't matter how they got the password. In the USA (And I'll assume the EU) using a password which was not intended for you is a felony. In short, any computer system, even one with a sign on it that reads "This has no password but do not access it" is protected by law. Once you access a computer system (or service running on a computer system) without authorization- it becomes a felony. Use of any means to circumvent a security measure (Including a purloined password) just makes the offense aggravated. Apparently... the g00ns admit to committing a felony in the pursuit of playing a game? I am not a lawyer- I'm an IT director. But I think that is what my legal department would say about it. Seems pretty stupid actually. If you need to go that far to play a game something is wrong with your life. But for the record: In game spying is part of the game. Cool. As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 04:04:00 - [74] Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon Edited by: Postlatta Mouseanon on 03/10/2007 04:04:01 Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Well the address the issue from the standpoint of reality, it doesn't matter how they got the password. In the USA (And I'll assume the EU) using a password which was not intended for you is a felony. In short, any computer system, even one with a sign on it that reads "This has no password but do not access it" is protected by law. Once you access a computer system (or service running on a computer system) without authorization- it becomes a felony. Use of any means to circumvent a security measure (Including a purloined password) just makes the offense aggravated. Apparently... the g00ns admit to committing a felony in the pursuit of playing a game? I am not a lawyer- I'm an IT director. But I think that is what my legal department would say about it. Seems pretty stupid actually. If you need to go that far to play a game something is wrong with your life. But for the record: In game spying is part of the game. Cool. As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick. main. post with it
Pelf Matagraph	Posted - 2007.10.03 04:17:00 - [75] Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon Edited by: Postlatta Mouseanon on 03/10/2007 04:04:01 Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Well the address the issue from the standpoint of reality, it doesn't matter how they got the password. In the USA (And I'll assume the EU) using a password which was not intended for you is a felony. In short, any computer system, even one with a sign on it that reads "This has no password but do not access it" is protected by law. Once you access a computer system (or service running on a computer system) without authorization- it becomes a felony. Use of any means to circumvent a security measure (Including a purloined password) just makes the offense aggravated. Apparently... the g00ns admit to committing a felony in the pursuit of playing a game? I am not a lawyer- I'm an IT director. But I think that is what my legal department would say about it. Seems pretty stupid actually. If you need to go that far to play a game something is wrong with your life. But for the record: In game spying is part of the game. Cool. As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick. main. post with it Capitalization: Use it.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 04:37:00 - [76] Originally by: Pelf Matagraph Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon Edited by: Postlatta Mouseanon on 03/10/2007 04:04:01 Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Well the address the issue from the standpoint of reality, it doesn't matter how they got the password. In the USA (And I'll assume the EU) using a password which was not intended for you is a felony. In short, any computer system, even one with a sign on it that reads "This has no password but do not access it" is protected by law. Once you access a computer system (or service running on a computer system) without authorization- it becomes a felony. Use of any means to circumvent a security measure (Including a purloined password) just makes the offense aggravated. Apparently... the g00ns admit to committing a felony in the pursuit of playing a game? I am not a lawyer- I'm an IT director. But I think that is what my legal department would say about it. Seems pretty stupid actually. If you need to go that far to play a game something is wrong with your life. But for the record: In game spying is part of the game. Cool. As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick. main. post with it Capitalization: Use it. life. get one
Drago Vanguard Vanguard Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.03 05:02:00 - [77] Let me clarify some things here... The Goons didn't just enter the RISE TS and run around doing their usual BS. They caused damage to the server software, necessitating a full server reset. That's not just morally wrong, that's illegal.
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 05:28:00 - [78] Edited by: Kaldaine on 03/10/2007 05:28:38 Originally by: Drago Vanguard Edited by: Drago Vanguard on 03/10/2007 05:12:46 Let me clarify some things here... The Goons didn't just enter the RISE TS and run around doing their usual BS. They used various holes in the TS software to obtain server admin and caused damage to the server software itself, necessitating a full server reset. That's not just morally wrong, that's illegal. As far as I know, legal action is currently being looked into. I think the community as a whole is not only sick of the Goons' general asshattery, but their disregard for the law. The Goons are taking their BS too far and there are going to be reprocussions. Well cry me a river. Good luck with your lawsuit although Im sure our ***** legal team has filled your every hole. Excuse me if I dont shed any tears for your self righteous indignation at the THOUGHT of someone even having the PASSWORD to your server who you dont want to let in. However if you are just going to sit here and weep at the thought of those evil goonies getting away with murder "hacking" their way onto your teamspeak and "hacking" the administrator status while sweeping the exploits of your allies (who have done much worse then a simple teamspeak disruption) under the rug excuse me if I dont take RISE or anyone crying at Goonswarm seriously.
Alice Cholmondeley I Am Legend	Posted - 2007.10.03 05:33:00 - [79] Originally by: Kaldaine Well cry me a river. Good luck with your lawsuit although Im sure our ***** legal team has filled your every hole. Excuse me if I dont shed any tears for your self righteous indignation at the THOUGHT of someone even having the PASSWORD to your server who you dont want to let in. However if you are just going to sit here and weep at the thought of those evil goonies getting away with murder "hacking" their way onto your teamspeak and "hacking" the administrator status while sweeping the exploits of your allies (who have done much worse then a simple teamspeak disruption) under the rug excuse me if I dont take RISE or anyone crying at Goonswarm seriously. You really have no clue what you're talking about do you?
Togotchen Renamour Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.03 05:46:00 - [80] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Kaldaine Well cry me a river. Good luck with your lawsuit although Im sure our ***** legal team has filled your every hole. Excuse me if I dont shed any tears for your self righteous indignation at the THOUGHT of someone even having the PASSWORD to your server who you dont want to let in. However if you are just going to sit here and weep at the thought of those evil goonies getting away with murder "hacking" their way onto your teamspeak and "hacking" the administrator status while sweeping the exploits of your allies (who have done much worse then a simple teamspeak disruption) under the rug excuse me if I dont take RISE or anyone crying at Goonswarm seriously. You really have no clue what you're talking about do you? No he doesn't. But the Goons have one thing on their side here- if the damage to the TS server resulted in less than $5,000 damage (US) it's unlikely the FBI would get involved. But that's just my experience with it. And before anyone takes a snipe- I do know what I'm talking about.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.10.03 06:08:00 - [81] Originally by: Areena Shay This is my main now! 1 character sold to IAC member. 1 character deleted. IAC is dead.
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 08:04:00 - [82] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Kaldaine Well cry me a river. Good luck with your lawsuit although Im sure our ***** legal team has filled your every hole. Excuse me if I dont shed any tears for your self righteous indignation at the THOUGHT of someone even having the PASSWORD to your server who you dont want to let in. However if you are just going to sit here and weep at the thought of those evil goonies getting away with murder "hacking" their way onto your teamspeak and "hacking" the administrator status while sweeping the exploits of your allies (who have done much worse then a simple teamspeak disruption) under the rug excuse me if I dont take RISE or anyone crying at Goonswarm seriously. You really have no clue what you're talking about do you? I do know what Im talking about when I say that you have not tried to refute, disprove or deny any information in my posts except with crappy one-liners that do nothing but distract from any logic, fact or truth in the post. Would you like to do any of the above when I say that a BoB member hired a hacker to hack our forums? Would you like to further refute the fact that the same member is the one responsible for getting the T20 scandal into the limelight by not paying said hacker? How come you do not make any accusations on said topic but feel so strongly about the TS incident? Please provide another smarmy tidbit that has absolutely nothing to do with the post and lets you slip by without countering the main arguement.
Cyrus Ildemar GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 08:31:00 - [83] Originally by: Drago Vanguard As far as I know, legal action is currently being looked into. I think the community as a whole is not only sick of the Goons' general asshattery, but their disregard for the law. The Goons are taking their BS too far and there are going to be reprocussions. Hey, I hear if you look long enough into legal action, the legal action will look back into you.
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.03 08:51:00 - [84] Spying is a part of the game now and we have to live with it. What i dont think is right is situations where there are attacks on ts servers etc. This is just taking the game too far tbh
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.03 10:14:00 - [85] Originally by: FGxHalsey Originally by: Shamis Orzoz The spy craze seems to have been started by bob, and once everybody found out that bob was spying on them, then tons of smaller spy programs sprouted up all over eve, culminating in the huge spy network that goons have created. Exactly on target there. BoB was probably the first alliance to extensively employ spying on others. Any enemy of BoB then had to develop a counter-intel program and begin spying back in order to properly defend themselves. Give me a break, these are just baseless claims. Spying has been part of EVE since the very start. Bob certainly wasn't the first alliance employing a spy network. They did have some high-profile successes because of it that made more people decide to get in on the spying action but so did the GHSC and many others. Now, put down the "BOB introduced ebil into innocent EVE" banner and try to discuss spying in EVE like informed, grown up people. -- .sig apathy ftw
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.10.03 10:34:00 - [86] Edited by: General Apocalypse on 03/10/2007 10:35:47 Spying has been in EVE for a very long time . Spying and Black Ops are usually worth more then 100 BS getting in the fight . For those who know the spying / black ops market is currently worth about 500 B if not more . Stupid stuff like CR.ACK.ING forums and TS super admin is law breaking and indeed lame , just like account hijacking . But fooling the enemy in giving you Server Admin on the website/TS is legal and it's has been done for a long time. Those that don't know how to restrict ppl and put all the eggs in one basket are doomed to fail . Even if you have spy you can outwit it easily. In fact a spy that you know it's the best way to feed BS to the enemy . A good FC w can drive spys crazy . I still remember that we where hunting for hostiles and we talked about them as asteroid belts . The guy quited the corp in 24 H . And nothing better then feeding you're spys whit "The Doomday was misdetonated " . In EVE is either spy or get spied . Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
ArchenTheGreat Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.03 10:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Heikki For more on-CAOD point: do we have any big alliance/corp who has zero-tolerance towards spying (i.e. they wont use spies, nor accept info from spes)? Not accept info from spies? You mean like: I tell my FC that my spy told me there is a huge hostile fleet next door and he still decides to jump because he was going to do this before? I think it's very safe to say: everyone is spying.
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.03 11:58:00 - [88] Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 03/10/2007 10:35:47 Spying has been in EVE for a very long time . Spying and Black Ops are usually worth more then 100 BS getting in the fight . For those who know the spying / black ops market is currently worth about 500 B if not more . Stupid stuff like CR.ACK.ING forums and TS super admin is law breaking and indeed lame , just like account hijacking . But fooling the enemy in giving you Server Admin on the website/TS is legal and it's has been done for a long time. Those that don't know how to restrict ppl and put all the eggs in one basket are doomed to fail . Even if you have spy you can outwit it easily. In fact a spy that you know it's the best way to feed BS to the enemy . A good FC w can drive spys crazy . I still remember that we where hunting for hostiles and we talked about them as asteroid belts . The guy quited the corp in 24 H . And nothing better then feeding you're spys whit "The Doomday was misdetonated " . In EVE is either spy or get spied . To be honest it would be nice if there was a way to give somone the rights to drag people around ts without allowing them to start deleting accounts and stuff.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 12:05:00 - [89] Originally by: Drago Vanguard Edited by: Drago Vanguard on 03/10/2007 05:12:46 Let me clarify some things here... The Goons didn't just enter the RISE TS and run around doing their usual BS. They used various holes in the TS software to obtain server admin and caused damage to the server software itself, necessitating a full server reset. That's not just morally wrong, that's illegal. As far as I know, legal action is currently being looked into. I think the community as a whole is not only sick of the Goons' general asshattery, but their disregard for the law. The Goons are taking their BS too far and there are going to be reprocussions. Nothing like vague legal accusations over the internet.
Jaikar Isillia Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.03 12:11:00 - [90] Originally by: Orangir You know what? **** spies. There I said it. Spies are probably the worst thing in the game at this point. Every time I get on a roll as a HWG some coward spy comes up behind me and backstabs me and my medic, then gets away scott free. At least engineers are able to defend against them, ya know? As a HWG I just get slaughtered by them because I can't turn around fast enough to see them coming. Agreeing with the OP on this one. QFT. I'll be assist whoring a heavy and then all of a sudden double backstab dumb spy cloaks and runs off 'lulzing' in chat.

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