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Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:02:00 - [1] If you have to spy to win in PvP, you really suck. Not just a little either.
Hellaciouss Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:03:00 - [2] Easily claims first post.
Wesley Baird Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:04:00 - [3] If you have to post with an alt, then you fail at forum whoring...
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:05:00 - [4] Originally by: Areena Shay If you have to spy to win in PvP, you must have been in new eden for more than a day. Not just a little either. fixed
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:05:00 - [5] This is my main now! 1 character sold to IAC member. 1 character deleted.
EVIL SYNNs Minmatar The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:08:00 - [6] Yeah anyone that spys FAILS.... CIA FAIL MI6 FAIL KGB FAIL Get over it m8. Spying is part of life, and if your a good FC you put crap out there as well to confuse your enemy! NO SIG REQURIED
Levka Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:09:00 - [7] I spy with my little eye something that starts with "G". Like it or not spying is part of the game. This is not WoW where when you die you just run back and ready to go again. In a matter of days you can lose something you worked for for months. Stakes are very high in EVE and if spying will give you upper hand then SPY AWAY. Is it ethical? Probably not, but who cares, its a game right. RIGHT? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:10:00 - [8] Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 02/10/2007 16:11:59 Originally by: Levka I spy with my little eye something that starts with "G". Like it or not spying is part of the game. This is not WoW where when you die you just run back and ready to go again. In a matter of days you can lose something you worked for for months. Stakes are very high in EVE and if spying will give you upper hand then SPY AWAY. Is it ethical? Probably not, but who cares, its a game right. RIGHT? yes, it is ethical. yes, it is a game. edited for elaboration. ethical is defined as conforming to accepted standards of social or professional behavior; "an ethical lawyer"; "ethical medical practice"; "had no ethical objection to drinking"; the profession in question being spies/espionage.
marakor Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Areena Shay If you have to spy to win in PvP, you really suck. Not just a little either. Sori bud but gotta disagree with ya on this one. Spying is a part of eve and life and a good FC knows and expects this to be the case and works with and around it to his/her advantage. The opinions that i give are the opinions of my corp although my alts opinions may differ as this is my forum smack alt.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:10:00 - [10] Spying is the backbone in modern EVE warfare. There isn't a single top tier alliance out there that doesn't spy, and for good reason. If you don't like spies, it's most likely because you're in a horrible alliance that has either been booted back to empire, or will be when an alliance with half a clue attacks you.
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:10:00 - [11] Hey genius. This isn't real life! This is a game! Using real life to justify conduct in a game is pathetic and stupid. Here watch: Well since the CIA spys, it should be ok for NFL teams to spy on other teams! Tell your momma I am coming over to spank you.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Areena Shay Hey genius. This isn't real life! This is a game! Using real life to justify conduct in a game is pathetic and stupid. Here watch: Well since the CIA spys, it should be ok for NFL teams to spy on other teams! Tell your momma I am coming over to spank you. they do. and you still fail.
Vyres Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:14:00 - [13] Originally by: Areena Shay Hey genius. This isn't real life! This is a game! Using real life to justify conduct in a game is pathetic and stupid. Here watch: Well since the CIA spys, it should be ok for NFL teams to spy on other teams! Tell your momma I am coming over to spank you. Your right this isnt real life but your a moron for not realizing that since it is a game other people enjoy it differently like for example I know many people who find spying... Fun. You know fun the thing you do in Games?
Irrilian Quetzalcoatl Inc	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:14:00 - [14] Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Yeah anyone that spys FAILS.... CIA FAIL MI6 FAIL KGB FAIL Get over it m8. Spying is part of life, and if your a good FC you put crap out there as well to confuse your enemy! Im sure the above agencies would be extremely grateful if you could provide them with the ability to transfer the conciousness of their agents between people. That is to infiltrate an organisation all they'd have to do is abduct one of its members and overwrite them with a suitable agent. Spying in Eve isnt the problem per se, its the complete lack of any consequences for ones actions thanks to character transfers and alts thats an issue.
lo'ming Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Areena Shay Hey genius. This isn't real life! This is a game! Using real life to justify conduct in a game is pathetic and stupid. well since its a game you should take it less seriously, no? arguing ethics in a game that pretty much promotes piracy/corp-theft/spying is fail. --
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Areena Shay If you have to spy to win in PvP, you really suck Thats rightful opinion of yours. Although in current form its slightly useless: while its somewhat easy to determinate who use spying, it's very hard to tell who needed to do it in order to win something. Reckon its another example of Eve as sandbox: Some people want to do market PVP, but hate losing haulers to combat PVP. Other folks love combat, but hate the espionage aspects. Personally I despise players involved in community shattering aspects like corp-theft and some forms of spying. For more on-CAOD point: do we have any big alliance/corp who has zero-tolerance towards spying (i.e. they wont use spies, nor accept info from spes)? -Lasse
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:20:00 - [17] My corp only started spying in an effort to root out any enemy spies within our own corp. I think there are a lot of other people who are in the same boat. The spy craze seems to have been started by bob, and once everybody found out that bob was spying on them, then tons of smaller spy programs sprouted up all over eve, culminating in the huge spy network that goons have created. Its a shame it had to happen, but it seems inevitable, because sooner or later somebody would've started it, at which point it becomes a necessary means of defense.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:20:00 - [18] Originally by: Heikki For more on-CAOD point: do we have any big alliance/corp who has zero-tolerance towards spying (i.e. they wont use spies, nor accept info from spes)? -Lasse i read somewhere that goons have no spies.
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Heikki For more on-CAOD point: do we have any big alliance/corp who has zero-tolerance towards spying (i.e. they wont use spies, nor accept info from spes)? -Lasse i think CVA actually turned down ppl trying to offline their own alliance towers once but apart from that i think ure spot on.
lo'ming Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: Heikki For more on-CAOD point: do we have any big alliance/corp who has zero-tolerance towards spying (i.e. they wont use spies, nor accept info from spes)? -Lasse i read somewhere that goons have no spies. i read somewhere that there are no goons. --
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:26:00 - [21] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz The spy craze seems to have been started by bob, and once everybody found out that bob was spying on them, then tons of smaller spy programs sprouted up all over eve, culminating in the huge spy network that goons have created. I dont know how long you play the game but spys, thefts and all the other crap happened all the way back in 2003 already. The only reason that it gets nailed to bob is because they were the first to publically state they endorse spying and will use it in any way or form. CA vs SA war had spies going left right center, same as most of the ancient conflicts. Even ASCN spied on almost all and everyone, ironically cyvok was the first to turn into cryvok when he got spied upon by bob.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:28:00 - [22] Originally by: lo'ming Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: Heikki For more on-CAOD point: do we have any big alliance/corp who has zero-tolerance towards spying (i.e. they wont use spies, nor accept info from spes)? -Lasse i read somewhere that goons have no spies. i read somewhere that there are no goons. that could be why they have no spies...
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:33:00 - [23] Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Kcel Chim I dont know how long you play the game but spys, thefts and all the other crap happened all the way back in 2003 already. The only reason that it gets nailed to bob is because they were the first to publically state they endorse spying and will use it in any way or form. CA vs SA war had spies going left right center, same as most of the ancient conflicts. Even ASCN spied on almost all and everyone, ironically cyvok was the first to turn into cryvok when he got spied upon by bob. There have always been spies and theives in eve. But Bob was the first organization I can think of that went out of their way to spy on people they weren't actively fighting...to build a network of spies for future use and general information. Such programs are fairly common for big alliances now, but in '04 they were nearly unheard of.
Vyres Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:46:00 - [25] Originally by: Pezzle Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game. I really REALLY hope you refering to TS hacking has nothing to do with rise TS or else you should just delete your post its ok Ill edit this one too if you still want to save face.
Levka Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:52:00 - [26] I spy with my little eye something that starts with "O" In game spying is fine, but hacking web sites is 2 much imo. BNC and BoB sites were hacked on multiple occasions and its really annoying. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Pezzle Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game. I really REALLY hope you refering to TS hacking has nothing to do with rise TS or else you should just delete your post its ok Ill edit this one too if you still want to save face. Goonswarm and RISE arent the only alliances to play eve stop taking everything personally. You prolly should not post at all and can try to delete yours but Im gonna leave mine up cause you are dumb and I would like the world to know.
Velios M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:56:00 - [28] Spying is what makes EVE go around. M.Corp Capital Blueprint Facility
Vyres Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Pezzle Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game. I really REALLY hope you refering to TS hacking has nothing to do with rise TS or else you should just delete your post its ok Ill edit this one too if you still want to save face. Goonswarm and RISE arent the only alliances to play eve stop taking everything personally. You prolly should not post at all and can try to delete yours but Im gonna leave mine up cause you are dumb and I would like the world to know. Yes your so right I see the errors of my way. Please let me know one other TS hacking incident in oh a year and ill submit to your obvious superior intellect.
FGxHalsey Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz My corp only started spying in an effort to root out any enemy spies within our own corp. I think there are a lot of other people who are in the same boat. The spy craze seems to have been started by bob, and once everybody found out that bob was spying on them, then tons of smaller spy programs sprouted up all over eve, culminating in the huge spy network that goons have created. Its a shame it had to happen, but it seems inevitable, because sooner or later somebody would've started it, at which point it becomes a necessary means of defense. Exactly on target there. BoB was probably the first alliance to extensively employ spying on others. Any enemy of BoB then had to develop a counter-intel program and begin spying back in order to properly defend themselves. Now, if you don't have intel/counter-intel on an alliance level, you're at a major disadvantage. If you don't spy because of e-honor reasons... well thats either intentionally keeping yourself at a disadvantage or just a coverup for either not putting the effort or not knowing how to build a spy program yourself. I personally agree that I don't like the existance of spying in EvE, but any alliance doing anything but embracing it themselves would be stupid at this point.
Raem Civrie Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Areena Shay If you have to spy to win in PvP, you really suck. Not just a little either. What, as in any PvP, or territorial conflict? Because you don't win in a large-scale conflict like this without observing subterfuge and espionage. Winning all your battles doesn't automatically win you the war. ---- All roads lead to Catch
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:14:00 - [32] just a clarification for some people on TS hacking. entering a password and logging on is not hacking
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:15:00 - [33] Let's be perfectly clear what spying is here. Spying occurs when people intentionally join a corporation to get access to their TS and forum servers and use that information to influence efforts in game. For example, the action of a certain corporation having their spy reset all TS settings shutting down the TS server in the middle of an enormous fleet engagement.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Areena Shay Let's be perfectly clear what spying is here. Spying occurs when people intentionally join a corporation to get access to their TS and forum servers and use that information to influence efforts in game. For example, the action of a certain corporation having their spy reset all TS settings shutting down the TS server in the middle of an enormous fleet engagement. so, in your opinion that is wrong; BUT, it's alright to make a deal with an alliance, say, they pay you X billion isk a month, in exchange for your alliance to protect them and keep them safe in their systems; then, when an attack comes, your alliance leaves them hanging in the breeze, AFTER pocketing quite a few billion isk. that's ok?
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:20:00 - [35] See? It only goes downhill. Perhaps it has NO BRAKES ! I was not referring to any specific incident. Any of the behavior from alts getting rights or forum/ts access to paying people to hack or crash forums is bad. You can argue shades of gray all you want but one thing leads to another.
NO BRAKES GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Pezzle See? It only goes downhill. Perhaps it has NO BRAKES ! I was not referring to any specific incident. Any of the behavior from alts getting rights or forum/ts access to paying people to hack or crash forums is bad. You can argue shades of gray all you want but one thing leads to another. It is indeed a slippery slope. However, joining a group in game to report their activities to another group is the virtue of spying. Anything below that can be thought of as reconnaissance. To me the line is drawn when you use brute force to break into secure areas (ex- hacking). Logging in with a legitimate password is a very different thing.
Raem Civrie Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:26:00 - [37] Originally by: NO BRAKES Originally by: Pezzle See? It only goes downhill. Perhaps it has NO BRAKES ! I was not referring to any specific incident. Any of the behavior from alts getting rights or forum/ts access to paying people to hack or crash forums is bad. You can argue shades of gray all you want but one thing leads to another. It is indeed a slippery slope. However, joining a group in game to report their activities to another group is the virtue of spying. Anything below that can be thought of as reconnaissance. To me the line is drawn when you use brute force to break into secure areas (ex- hacking). Logging in with a legitimate password is a very different thing. That's the difference. Exploiting trust is ok, breaking into a SQL or deploying a trojan to clear out a hard drive isn't. ---- All roads lead to Catch
EVIL SYNNs Minmatar The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:27:00 - [38] Originally by: Areena Shay Hey genius. This isn't real life! This is a game! Using real life to justify conduct in a game is pathetic and stupid. Here watch: Well since the CIA spys, it should be ok for NFL teams to spy on other teams! Tell your momma I am coming over to spank you. OMG! What will I tell my wife.. I have a Fanboi that wants to spank me. A Fanboi who posts and does not think! NFL teams spying on other teams doesn't happen! ROFLMAO @ OP! A boyfriend who don't spy on his burd, a Mother who don't spy on their newly masturbating boy. Be glad for one thing, the price of Trit is good, don't worry you'll be in 0.0 again soon! NO SIG REQURIED
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:27:00 - [39] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/10/2007 17:28:24 Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 02/10/2007 17:27:32 Originally by: NO BRAKES Originally by: Pezzle See? It only goes downhill. Perhaps it has NO BRAKES ! I was not referring to any specific incident. Any of the behavior from alts getting rights or forum/ts access to paying people to hack or crash forums is bad. You can argue shades of gray all you want but one thing leads to another. It is indeed a slippery slope. However, joining a group in game to report their activities to another group is the virtue of spying. Anything below that can be thought of as reconnaissance. To me the line is drawn when you use brute force to break into secure areas (ex- hacking). Logging in with a legitimate password is a very different thing. Still, it would be nice if there were some game mechanics in place to investigate alt-history better than what's currently in place. Counter-intelligence mechanics at the moment are limited to infiltrating and spying to find out your own spies.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:28:00 - [40] Originally by: Pezzle See? It only goes downhill. Perhaps it has NO BRAKES ! I was not referring to any specific incident. Any of the behavior from alts getting rights or forum/ts access to paying people to hack or crash forums is bad. You can argue shades of gray all you want but one thing leads to another. you were not referring to any specific incident? this is your only post in this thread. have you advertantly revealed your main (which you stated you no longer possess or some such thing), in a thread about spying? this is... ironic?
karttoon	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:43:00 - [41] Originally by: Irrilian Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Yeah anyone that spys FAILS.... CIA FAIL MI6 FAIL KGB FAIL Get over it m8. Spying is part of life, and if your a good FC you put crap out there as well to confuse your enemy! Im sure the above agencies would be extremely grateful if you could provide them with the ability to transfer the conciousness of their agents between people. That is to infiltrate an organisation all they'd have to do is abduct one of its members and overwrite them with a suitable agent. Spying in Eve isnt the problem per se, its the complete lack of any consequences for ones actions thanks to character transfers and alts thats an issue. It would be nice is soldiers had the ability to clone themselves after they die to without any consequences. Comparing real life to eve is dumb.
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:50:00 - [42] not ironic, this is my main. I was replying to Vyres quoting me earlier. Since I have a strong dislike for the pyramid of quotes they are rarely used and you might have to read back, or ignore me entirely, or whatever. As for the spying in varied forms I can recognize and appreciate the distinctions. My opinion on it all is obviously different. If everyone else can put their message out there so can I, right?
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:51:00 - [43] Edited by: Areena Shay on 02/10/2007 17:51:58 Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: Areena Shay Let's be perfectly clear what spying is here. Spying occurs when people intentionally join a corporation to get access to their TS and forum servers and use that information to influence efforts in game. For example, the action of a certain corporation having their spy reset all TS settings shutting down the TS server in the middle of an enormous fleet engagement. so, in your opinion that is wrong; BUT, it's alright to make a deal with an alliance, say, they pay you X billion isk a month, in exchange for your alliance to protect them and keep them safe in their systems; then, when an attack comes, your alliance leaves them hanging in the breeze, AFTER pocketing quite a few billion isk. that's ok? Spying on TS and disabling TS services and forums means you suck at Eve and your response is to raise some obscure point completely irrelevant to this discussion as justification? Did you get a degree in debate from ACME or Wal-Mart? Since no doubt this response is way over your head, let's break it down into 2 simple questions: (1) Where did I ever say what you posed is ok? (2) How is your point relevant to a discussion about spying?
Vasili Z Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:53:00 - [44] East, West, North, and South. ---- Everything I say represents my corporation and their views.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:04:00 - [45] Originally by: Areena Shay Edited by: Areena Shay on 02/10/2007 17:51:58 Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: Areena Shay Let's be perfectly clear what spying is here. Spying occurs when people intentionally join a corporation to get access to their TS and forum servers and use that information to influence efforts in game. For example, the action of a certain corporation having their spy reset all TS settings shutting down the TS server in the middle of an enormous fleet engagement. so, in your opinion that is wrong; BUT, it's alright to make a deal with an alliance, say, they pay you X billion isk a month, in exchange for your alliance to protect them and keep them safe in their systems; then, when an attack comes, your alliance leaves them hanging in the breeze, AFTER pocketing quite a few billion isk. that's ok? Spying on TS and disabling TS services and forums means you suck at Eve and your response is to raise some obscure point completely irrelevant to this discussion as justification? Did you get a degree in debate from ACME or Wal-Mart? Since no doubt this response is way over your head, let's break it down into 2 simple questions: (1) Where did I ever say what you posed is ok? (2) How is your point relevant to a discussion about spying? ouch, get lost and try to insult folks. you won the intarwabs!!! how does it fit... you're complaining (read - whining like a ***) about spying in the game, which has existed and been employed by EVERY alliance worth a ** for YEARS now. you don't think it's right. so i asked you if you thought some other crap was right or not. i'm sorry if you fail. but feel free to insult me more, since you're not very good at it.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:08:00 - [46] Originally by: Areena Shay Spying on TS and disabling TS services and forums means you suck at Eve There is a big difference between spying and destroying. The 'line' is very clear to me. You do not destroy other people's out of game infrastructure: forums, teamspeak servers etc. Listening/reading information not intended for you is not destructive in any way. But actively destroying or disabling TS/Forums is definitely unacceptable and illegal (where they bother with internet laws..).
zilllii Squirrel Power	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:12:00 - [47] the fun part in this thread is that the op is a outspoken anti-goon and pro-bob alt from multiple other threads and complains about spies in eve. sarcasm meter just blew up. -------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Love the new need for speed initiative. Pilots involved in a fleet battle can post on the forum and get a reply about wha
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:21:00 - [48] Originally by: zilllii the fun part in this thread is that the op is a outspoken anti-goon and pro-bob alt from multiple other threads and complains about spies in eve. sarcasm meter just blew up. i'm sorry, but looking at http://eve-search.com/thread/504927/page/2#33 i'd have to say someone that ******** is definitely a goon. surely bob alts would NEVER do that sort of thing. it is without e-honour.
Cupdeez Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Levka I spy with my little eye something that starts with "O" In game spying is fine, but hacking web sites is 2 much imo. BNC and BoB sites were hacked on multiple occasions and its really annoying. Yeah I thought the same thing because Imperium busted a BOB member for hacking our forums and killboards back in the day. You are in an alliance with 2,700 members if any member hacks someone it comes back to the alliance. If you donÆt know all the 2,700 members to the point were you can say none of them have hacked anyone playing eve then shut your hole.
Monkey Rat Caldari Simtech Productions Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:02:00 - [50] At least you can spy in EVE! Most other games are far inferior in this respect, amongst others. - Sometimes its just not worth chewing through the leather straps in the morning.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:08:00 - [51] Originally by: zilllii the fun part in this thread is that the op is a outspoken anti-goon and pro-bob alt from multiple other threads and complains about spies in eve. sarcasm meter just blew up. I see you have quoted me in sig But you missed a bit, you get a forum reply quicker than the overview updates As to the OP...you been flamed enough, and deservedly. Spying includes things like, watching hostile fleet build up with covert so you know range and ship types. If you're not using intel...then you fail at pvp I, erm, like kill things and stuff
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:17:00 - [52] As I specifically said, I have no problem with in game techniques such as watching hostile fleets. The out of game spying via forums and TS access and crippling TS services are beyond the pale. As for being anti-goon, of course I am. I have great admiration for a number of anti-Bob corps, like IAC. It sickens me that IAC has to align with Goons for any reason. Goons are a virus, pure and simple. As for being pro-Bob, hardly. I fought through the ASCN wars against Bob. But I admit at this point if I had to align with Bob or Goons, I would have to pick Bob. My God that just goes to show how utterly pathetic Goons PR engine is.
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:19:00 - [53] Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 19:22:53 Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Pezzle Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game. I really REALLY hope you refering to TS hacking has nothing to do with rise TS or else you should just delete your post its ok Ill edit this one too if you still want to save face. Goonswarm and RISE arent the only alliances to play eve stop taking everything personally. You prolly should not post at all and can try to delete yours but Im gonna leave mine up cause you are dumb and I would like the world to know. Yes your so right I see the errors of my way. Please let me know one other TS hacking incident in oh a year and ill submit to your obvious superior intellect. Let me point out you're (note the 're its a contraction of you are this is just an example for you) errors. You imply actually you say that what we did to RISE was hacking when in fact it was poor security on the part of RISE and a bunch of Goons getting their hands on the TS password. Along with this there have been several incidents in the last year although I believe only one (I think it was to CoW or someone from the North) was a direct, malicious attack from an outside group. Finally nowhere in his post did Pezzle mention Goonswarm, BoB, ASCN, RISE or anyone else who has been targeted by "attacks", which to me is most indicative that he was not actually talking about anyone even though he also just posted to that effect. Hopefully, with your obviously inferior intellect your next post consists of you putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger, ie vis a vis eg ipso facto kill yourself.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Areena Shay As I specifically said, I have no problem with in game techniques such as watching hostile fleets. The out of game spying via forums and TS access and crippling TS services are beyond the pale. As for being anti-goon, of course I am. I have great admiration for a number of anti-Bob corps, like IAC. It sickens me that IAC has to align with Goons for any reason. Goons are a virus, pure and simple. As for being pro-Bob, hardly. I fought through the ASCN wars against Bob. But I admit at this point if I had to align with Bob or Goons, I would have to pick Bob. My God that just goes to show how utterly pathetic Goons PR engine is. seeing as goons copied these techniques from older, more experienced corps and alliances...
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:27:00 - [55] Originally by: Areena Shay As I specifically said, I have no problem with in game techniques such as watching hostile fleets. The out of game spying via forums and TS access and crippling TS services are beyond the pale. Goonswarm has more spies on its forums and TS then most alliances have members. Im betting every single corp that is hostile, was hostile or might think about hostilities has a spy looking at our forums. Thankfully we have never attacked teamspeak services aside from playing around with alliances who are careless with their password.
0August0 Gallente Gooch Unlimited	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:35:00 - [56] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz There is a big difference between spying and destroying. The 'line' is very clear to me. You do not destroy other people's out of game infrastructure: forums, teamspeak servers etc. Listening/reading information not intended for you is not destructive in any way. But actively destroying or disabling TS/Forums is definitely unacceptable and illegal (where they bother with internet laws..). Absolutely correct. . . . Regards, August
Frothgar Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:47:00 - [57] There is a fundamental truth to warfare in that you really don't need to ask your enemy for permission to do anything to them. Its interesting that in some respects I've seen things occur ingame that might formally qualify as a serious moral sin. (A friend befriending and ganking multibillion ISK mission runners effectively killing off months of their effort for personal gain.) I dunno, I've just always believed that the way to win a war is to subject someone to a cost they are unwilling to bear. Thats edgy in a game since what can you realistically do to them? War is not glamorous, its a nasty messy business. I think its silly to emulate warfare and not expect a good chunk of the nastiness to come in.
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:53:00 - [58] Originally by: Kaldaine Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 19:22:53 Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Pezzle Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game. I really REALLY hope you refering to TS hacking has nothing to do with rise TS or else you should just delete your post its ok Ill edit this one too if you still want to save face. Goonswarm and RISE arent the only alliances to play eve stop taking everything personally. You prolly should not post at all and can try to delete yours but Im gonna leave mine up cause you are dumb and I would like the world to know. Yes your so right I see the errors of my way. Please let me know one other TS hacking incident in oh a year and ill submit to your obvious superior intellect. Let me point out you're (note the 're its a contraction of you are this is just an example for you) errors. You imply actually you say that what we did to RISE was hacking when in fact it was poor security on the part of RISE and a bunch of Goons getting their hands on the TS password. Along with this there have been several incidents in the last year although I believe only one (I think it was to CoW or someone from the North) was a direct, malicious attack from an outside group. Finally nowhere in his post did Pezzle mention Goonswarm, BoB, ASCN, RISE or anyone else who has been targeted by "attacks", which to me is most indicative that he was not actually talking about anyone even though he also just posted to that effect. Hopefully, with your obviously inferior intellect your next post consists of you putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger, ie vis a vis eg ipso facto kill yourself. So in other words, you agree that you did invade their TS. You agree you did it with the intent to malign their TS services. Of course, what you did when you got there is the issue. Did you malign the TS server or did you simply listen? Using the "but Bob did it to me first" defense as justification to do it to someone else is ridiculous.
Delwin Amber GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:57:00 - [59] Someone has obviously never read the Art of War.
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:01:00 - [60] You know what? **** spies. There I said it. Spies are probably the worst thing in the game at this point. Every time I get on a roll as a HWG some coward spy comes up behind me and backstabs me and my medic, then gets away scott free. At least engineers are able to defend against them, ya know? As a HWG I just get slaughtered by them because I can't turn around fast enough to see them coming. Agreeing with the OP on this one.
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:05:00 - [61] I am fairly certain that the criminal hacking statutes are slightly more relevant than Sun Tzu when it comes to computer intrusion. Was Sun Tzu a hacker?
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:05:00 - [62] Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 20:08:52 Originally by: Areena Shay Originally by: Kaldaine Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 19:22:53 Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Pezzle Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game. I really REALLY hope you refering to TS hacking has nothing to do with rise TS or else you should just delete your post its ok Ill edit this one too if you still want to save face. Goonswarm and RISE arent the only alliances to play eve stop taking everything personally. You prolly should not post at all and can try to delete yours but Im gonna leave mine up cause you are dumb and I would like the world to know. Yes your so right I see the errors of my way. Please let me know one other TS hacking incident in oh a year and ill submit to your obvious superior intellect. Let me point out you're (note the 're its a contraction of you are this is just an example for you) errors. You imply actually you say that what we did to RISE was hacking when in fact it was poor security on the part of RISE and a bunch of Goons getting their hands on the TS password. Along with this there have been several incidents in the last year although I believe only one (I think it was to CoW or someone from the North) was a direct, malicious attack from an outside group. Finally nowhere in his post did Pezzle mention Goonswarm, BoB, ASCN, RISE or anyone else who has been targeted by "attacks", which to me is most indicative that he was not actually talking about anyone even though he also just posted to that effect. Hopefully, with your obviously inferior intellect your next post consists of you putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger, ie vis a vis eg ipso facto kill yourself. So in other words, you agree that you did invade their TS. You agree you did it with the intent to malign their TS services. Of course, what you did when you got there is the issue. Did you malign the TS server or did you simply listen? Using the "but Bob did it to me first" defense as justification to do it to someone else is ridiculous. Everything I said about the poster I quoted applies to you as well. Goons got hold of their password, ran around on their teamspeak for a bit and then got kicked off. If someone has extremely lax teamspeak security measures Im not going to feel very sorry for them seeing as basic measures would have prevented most of it. It wasnt malicious, it didnt disrupt an op or their TS for an extended period. You are more then welcome to come onto the goonswarm TS server, I know BoB has the info because we have given it to them, inviting them on. They never come . I dont really feel the need to justify the actions of others so Im not going to. You said you were neutral in this but I dont really see it as you seem to hate us for finding the password to someones teamspeak and logging on. Seeing as that is about the worst thing we have done to anyones server or forums and that much worse has happened Im confused as to why your panties are in such a twist.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:06:00 - [63] Originally by: Areena Shay So in other words, you agree that you did invade their TS. You agree you did it with the intent to malign their TS services. Of course, what you did when you got there is the issue. Did you malign the TS server or did you simply listen? Using the "but Bob did it to me first" defense as justification to do it to someone else is ridiculous. the bigger question, is did they obtain personal information about the other guys and then post it on eve-o, with the intention of causing them financial and emotional hardships? methinks the eye of terror is skeering you. whether it's the new eden one or 40k one, i'm unsure.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:09:00 - [64] Originally by: Areena Shay I am fairly certain that the criminal hacking statutes are slightly more relevant than Sun Tzu when it comes to computer intrusion. Was Sun Tzu a hacker? i do not think hacking sun tzu means what you think it means. and sun tzu had many many spies and his initial group of generals, after his split with the established aristocratic generals -- were boiled alive. sun tzu would approve of hacking IF he hadn't already destroyed his enemy utterly.
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:13:00 - [65] I am personally very happy that Sun Tzu would approve of hacking. So when a corp hacks another TS server again, they can defend themselves from criminal sanctions by declaring the "Sun Tzu" defense! Good stuff.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:33:00 - [66] Originally by: Areena Shay I am personally very happy that Sun Tzu would approve of hacking. So when a corp hacks another TS server again, they can defend themselves from criminal sanctions by declaring the "Sun Tzu" defense! Good stuff. Thanks for the mental imagery. Now, I will go brush my blond bangs from my eyes and proceed to poke them out with the nearest sharp instrument! but um, what are you talking about hacking? did your spy argument fail too much and now you're trying to find one example of one time that someone guessed a pw for a ts server (versus being given one) and harp on that until time ends? fail. as usual.
Areena Shay Shay Trading Company	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:35:00 - [67] You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:38:00 - [68] Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. you're right. because that pw wouldn't be given on a forum, or any type of mail, or any any medium that a spy would possible conceive to record... need i say it? Thanks for the mental imagery. Now, I will go brush my blond bangs from my eyes and proceed to poke them out with the nearest sharp instrument!
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:52:00 - [69] Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Your infallible logic has smashed my arguements in the face and I will never be able to recover. Quite obviously the easiest way onto someones teamspeak is to hack their server to allow anyone who wants to get on because the passwords are super secret and impossible to get ahold of. Your arguement is so dumb it leads me to believe you shouldnt even be in a room alone much less posting on the internet.
Hennry Fromer Gallente radiated space gerbils	Posted - 2007.10.02 23:11:00 - [70] We find spying is bad, so all corp members being brain surgeons we open peoples skulls remove their brains, then implants them into chimps or other lower primates and interrogate them. The only downside is when you have a bunch of them on the table - darn stickle notes won't stick to grey matter, and our test with staples had one person loose their sense of humor permanently. To our shock some alliances seem to have developed a counter method as the last three members we tried this on from an un-named alliance we discovered only cream cheese in the cranial cavity. When the games becomes your life time to phone a friend or a therapist.
Rudy Metallo Sanguine Raiders	Posted - 2007.10.02 23:15:00 - [71] Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 02/10/2007 23:15:53 Originally by: Kaldaine Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 20:08:52 Originally by: Areena Shay Originally by: Kaldaine Edited by: Kaldaine on 02/10/2007 19:22:53 Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Kaldaine Originally by: Vyres Originally by: Pezzle Spying itself may not seem so bad, but an air of tolerance will encourage all the other terrible behavior we have seen. TS/Forum spying, hacking, public smear campaigns and the like. It is bad for the game, being 'a part of the game' is not relevant. Nothing is done so anything goes. Spying does nothing to improve the quality of this game. I really REALLY hope you refering to TS hacking has nothing to do with rise TS or else you should just delete your post its ok Ill edit this one too if you still want to save face. Goonswarm and RISE arent the only alliances to play eve stop taking everything personally. You prolly should not post at all and can try to delete yours but Im gonna leave mine up cause you are dumb and I would like the world to know. Yes your so right I see the errors of my way. Please let me know one other TS hacking incident in oh a year and ill submit to your obvious superior intellect. Let me point out you're (note the 're its a contraction of you are this is just an example for you) errors. You imply actually you say that what we did to RISE was hacking when in fact it was poor security on the part of RISE and a bunch of Goons getting their hands on the TS password. Along with this there have been several incidents in the last year although I believe only one (I think it was to CoW or someone from the North) was a direct, malicious attack from an outside group. Finally nowhere in his post did Pezzle mention Goonswarm, BoB, ASCN, RISE or anyone else who has been targeted by "attacks", which to me is most indicative that he was not actually talking about anyone even though he also just posted to that effect. Hopefully, with your obviously inferior intellect your next post consists of you putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger, ie vis a vis eg ipso facto kill yourself. So in other words, you agree that you did invade their TS. You agree you did it with the intent to malign their TS services. Of course, what you did when you got there is the issue. Did you malign the TS server or did you simply listen? Using the "but Bob did it to me first" defense as justification to do it to someone else is ridiculous. Everything I said about the poster I quoted applies to you as well. Goons got hold of their password, ran around on their teamspeak for a bit and then got kicked off. If someone has extremely lax teamspeak security measures Im not going to feel very sorry for them seeing as basic measures would have prevented most of it. It wasnt malicious, it didnt disrupt an op or their TS for an extended period. You are more then welcome to come onto the goonswarm TS server, I know BoB has the info because we have given it to them, inviting them on. They never come . I dont really feel the need to justify the actions of others so Im not going to. You said you were neutral in this but I dont really see it as you seem to hate us for finding the password to someones teamspeak and logging on. Seeing as that is about the worst thing we have done to anyones server or forums and that much worse has happened Im confused as to why your panties are in such a twist. Just wanted to see if I should get that first post any thinner. oh, and spying is lame. Say what?
Devian 666 Sectoid Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.03 00:45:00 - [72] Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. You have established that you know nothing about spying. Fail. Come back when you are more familiar with the real world than your fantasies. I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain.
Postlatta Mouseanon Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.10.03 04:03:00 - [73] Edited by: Postlatta Mouseanon on 03/10/2007 04:04:01 Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Well the address the issue from the standpoint of reality, it doesn't matter how they got the password. In the USA (And I'll assume the EU) using a password which was not intended for you is a felony. In short, any computer system, even one with a sign on it that reads "This has no password but do not access it" is protected by law. Once you access a computer system (or service running on a computer system) without authorization- it becomes a felony. Use of any means to circumvent a security measure (Including a purloined password) just makes the offense aggravated. Apparently... the g00ns admit to committing a felony in the pursuit of playing a game? I am not a lawyer- I'm an IT director. But I think that is what my legal department would say about it. Seems pretty stupid actually. If you need to go that far to play a game something is wrong with your life. But for the record: In game spying is part of the game. Cool. As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 04:04:00 - [74] Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon Edited by: Postlatta Mouseanon on 03/10/2007 04:04:01 Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Well the address the issue from the standpoint of reality, it doesn't matter how they got the password. In the USA (And I'll assume the EU) using a password which was not intended for you is a felony. In short, any computer system, even one with a sign on it that reads "This has no password but do not access it" is protected by law. Once you access a computer system (or service running on a computer system) without authorization- it becomes a felony. Use of any means to circumvent a security measure (Including a purloined password) just makes the offense aggravated. Apparently... the g00ns admit to committing a felony in the pursuit of playing a game? I am not a lawyer- I'm an IT director. But I think that is what my legal department would say about it. Seems pretty stupid actually. If you need to go that far to play a game something is wrong with your life. But for the record: In game spying is part of the game. Cool. As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick. main. post with it
Pelf Matagraph	Posted - 2007.10.03 04:17:00 - [75] Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon Edited by: Postlatta Mouseanon on 03/10/2007 04:04:01 Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Well the address the issue from the standpoint of reality, it doesn't matter how they got the password. In the USA (And I'll assume the EU) using a password which was not intended for you is a felony. In short, any computer system, even one with a sign on it that reads "This has no password but do not access it" is protected by law. Once you access a computer system (or service running on a computer system) without authorization- it becomes a felony. Use of any means to circumvent a security measure (Including a purloined password) just makes the offense aggravated. Apparently... the g00ns admit to committing a felony in the pursuit of playing a game? I am not a lawyer- I'm an IT director. But I think that is what my legal department would say about it. Seems pretty stupid actually. If you need to go that far to play a game something is wrong with your life. But for the record: In game spying is part of the game. Cool. As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick. main. post with it Capitalization: Use it.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 04:37:00 - [76] Originally by: Pelf Matagraph Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon Edited by: Postlatta Mouseanon on 03/10/2007 04:04:01 Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Well the address the issue from the standpoint of reality, it doesn't matter how they got the password. In the USA (And I'll assume the EU) using a password which was not intended for you is a felony. In short, any computer system, even one with a sign on it that reads "This has no password but do not access it" is protected by law. Once you access a computer system (or service running on a computer system) without authorization- it becomes a felony. Use of any means to circumvent a security measure (Including a purloined password) just makes the offense aggravated. Apparently... the g00ns admit to committing a felony in the pursuit of playing a game? I am not a lawyer- I'm an IT director. But I think that is what my legal department would say about it. Seems pretty stupid actually. If you need to go that far to play a game something is wrong with your life. But for the record: In game spying is part of the game. Cool. As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick. main. post with it Capitalization: Use it. life. get one
Drago Vanguard Vanguard Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.03 05:02:00 - [77] Let me clarify some things here... The Goons didn't just enter the RISE TS and run around doing their usual BS. They caused damage to the server software, necessitating a full server reset. That's not just morally wrong, that's illegal.
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 05:28:00 - [78] Edited by: Kaldaine on 03/10/2007 05:28:38 Originally by: Drago Vanguard Edited by: Drago Vanguard on 03/10/2007 05:12:46 Let me clarify some things here... The Goons didn't just enter the RISE TS and run around doing their usual BS. They used various holes in the TS software to obtain server admin and caused damage to the server software itself, necessitating a full server reset. That's not just morally wrong, that's illegal. As far as I know, legal action is currently being looked into. I think the community as a whole is not only sick of the Goons' general asshattery, but their disregard for the law. The Goons are taking their BS too far and there are going to be reprocussions. Well cry me a river. Good luck with your lawsuit although Im sure our ***** legal team has filled your every hole. Excuse me if I dont shed any tears for your self righteous indignation at the THOUGHT of someone even having the PASSWORD to your server who you dont want to let in. However if you are just going to sit here and weep at the thought of those evil goonies getting away with murder "hacking" their way onto your teamspeak and "hacking" the administrator status while sweeping the exploits of your allies (who have done much worse then a simple teamspeak disruption) under the rug excuse me if I dont take RISE or anyone crying at Goonswarm seriously.
Alice Cholmondeley I Am Legend	Posted - 2007.10.03 05:33:00 - [79] Originally by: Kaldaine Well cry me a river. Good luck with your lawsuit although Im sure our ***** legal team has filled your every hole. Excuse me if I dont shed any tears for your self righteous indignation at the THOUGHT of someone even having the PASSWORD to your server who you dont want to let in. However if you are just going to sit here and weep at the thought of those evil goonies getting away with murder "hacking" their way onto your teamspeak and "hacking" the administrator status while sweeping the exploits of your allies (who have done much worse then a simple teamspeak disruption) under the rug excuse me if I dont take RISE or anyone crying at Goonswarm seriously. You really have no clue what you're talking about do you?
Togotchen Renamour Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.03 05:46:00 - [80] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Kaldaine Well cry me a river. Good luck with your lawsuit although Im sure our ***** legal team has filled your every hole. Excuse me if I dont shed any tears for your self righteous indignation at the THOUGHT of someone even having the PASSWORD to your server who you dont want to let in. However if you are just going to sit here and weep at the thought of those evil goonies getting away with murder "hacking" their way onto your teamspeak and "hacking" the administrator status while sweeping the exploits of your allies (who have done much worse then a simple teamspeak disruption) under the rug excuse me if I dont take RISE or anyone crying at Goonswarm seriously. You really have no clue what you're talking about do you? No he doesn't. But the Goons have one thing on their side here- if the damage to the TS server resulted in less than $5,000 damage (US) it's unlikely the FBI would get involved. But that's just my experience with it. And before anyone takes a snipe- I do know what I'm talking about.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.10.03 06:08:00 - [81] Originally by: Areena Shay This is my main now! 1 character sold to IAC member. 1 character deleted. IAC is dead.
Kaldaine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 08:04:00 - [82] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Kaldaine Well cry me a river. Good luck with your lawsuit although Im sure our ***** legal team has filled your every hole. Excuse me if I dont shed any tears for your self righteous indignation at the THOUGHT of someone even having the PASSWORD to your server who you dont want to let in. However if you are just going to sit here and weep at the thought of those evil goonies getting away with murder "hacking" their way onto your teamspeak and "hacking" the administrator status while sweeping the exploits of your allies (who have done much worse then a simple teamspeak disruption) under the rug excuse me if I dont take RISE or anyone crying at Goonswarm seriously. You really have no clue what you're talking about do you? I do know what Im talking about when I say that you have not tried to refute, disprove or deny any information in my posts except with crappy one-liners that do nothing but distract from any logic, fact or truth in the post. Would you like to do any of the above when I say that a BoB member hired a hacker to hack our forums? Would you like to further refute the fact that the same member is the one responsible for getting the T20 scandal into the limelight by not paying said hacker? How come you do not make any accusations on said topic but feel so strongly about the TS incident? Please provide another smarmy tidbit that has absolutely nothing to do with the post and lets you slip by without countering the main arguement.
Cyrus Ildemar GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 08:31:00 - [83] Originally by: Drago Vanguard As far as I know, legal action is currently being looked into. I think the community as a whole is not only sick of the Goons' general asshattery, but their disregard for the law. The Goons are taking their BS too far and there are going to be reprocussions. Hey, I hear if you look long enough into legal action, the legal action will look back into you.
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.03 08:51:00 - [84] Spying is a part of the game now and we have to live with it. What i dont think is right is situations where there are attacks on ts servers etc. This is just taking the game too far tbh
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.03 10:14:00 - [85] Originally by: FGxHalsey Originally by: Shamis Orzoz The spy craze seems to have been started by bob, and once everybody found out that bob was spying on them, then tons of smaller spy programs sprouted up all over eve, culminating in the huge spy network that goons have created. Exactly on target there. BoB was probably the first alliance to extensively employ spying on others. Any enemy of BoB then had to develop a counter-intel program and begin spying back in order to properly defend themselves. Give me a break, these are just baseless claims. Spying has been part of EVE since the very start. Bob certainly wasn't the first alliance employing a spy network. They did have some high-profile successes because of it that made more people decide to get in on the spying action but so did the GHSC and many others. Now, put down the "BOB introduced ebil into innocent EVE" banner and try to discuss spying in EVE like informed, grown up people. -- .sig apathy ftw
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.10.03 10:34:00 - [86] Edited by: General Apocalypse on 03/10/2007 10:35:47 Spying has been in EVE for a very long time . Spying and Black Ops are usually worth more then 100 BS getting in the fight . For those who know the spying / black ops market is currently worth about 500 B if not more . Stupid stuff like CR.ACK.ING forums and TS super admin is law breaking and indeed lame , just like account hijacking . But fooling the enemy in giving you Server Admin on the website/TS is legal and it's has been done for a long time. Those that don't know how to restrict ppl and put all the eggs in one basket are doomed to fail . Even if you have spy you can outwit it easily. In fact a spy that you know it's the best way to feed BS to the enemy . A good FC w can drive spys crazy . I still remember that we where hunting for hostiles and we talked about them as asteroid belts . The guy quited the corp in 24 H . And nothing better then feeding you're spys whit "The Doomday was misdetonated " . In EVE is either spy or get spied . Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
ArchenTheGreat Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.03 10:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Heikki For more on-CAOD point: do we have any big alliance/corp who has zero-tolerance towards spying (i.e. they wont use spies, nor accept info from spes)? Not accept info from spies? You mean like: I tell my FC that my spy told me there is a huge hostile fleet next door and he still decides to jump because he was going to do this before? I think it's very safe to say: everyone is spying.
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.03 11:58:00 - [88] Originally by: General Apocalypse Edited by: General Apocalypse on 03/10/2007 10:35:47 Spying has been in EVE for a very long time . Spying and Black Ops are usually worth more then 100 BS getting in the fight . For those who know the spying / black ops market is currently worth about 500 B if not more . Stupid stuff like CR.ACK.ING forums and TS super admin is law breaking and indeed lame , just like account hijacking . But fooling the enemy in giving you Server Admin on the website/TS is legal and it's has been done for a long time. Those that don't know how to restrict ppl and put all the eggs in one basket are doomed to fail . Even if you have spy you can outwit it easily. In fact a spy that you know it's the best way to feed BS to the enemy . A good FC w can drive spys crazy . I still remember that we where hunting for hostiles and we talked about them as asteroid belts . The guy quited the corp in 24 H . And nothing better then feeding you're spys whit "The Doomday was misdetonated " . In EVE is either spy or get spied . To be honest it would be nice if there was a way to give somone the rights to drag people around ts without allowing them to start deleting accounts and stuff.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 12:05:00 - [89] Originally by: Drago Vanguard Edited by: Drago Vanguard on 03/10/2007 05:12:46 Let me clarify some things here... The Goons didn't just enter the RISE TS and run around doing their usual BS. They used various holes in the TS software to obtain server admin and caused damage to the server software itself, necessitating a full server reset. That's not just morally wrong, that's illegal. As far as I know, legal action is currently being looked into. I think the community as a whole is not only sick of the Goons' general asshattery, but their disregard for the law. The Goons are taking their BS too far and there are going to be reprocussions. Nothing like vague legal accusations over the internet.
Jaikar Isillia Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.03 12:11:00 - [90] Originally by: Orangir You know what? **** spies. There I said it. Spies are probably the worst thing in the game at this point. Every time I get on a roll as a HWG some coward spy comes up behind me and backstabs me and my medic, then gets away scott free. At least engineers are able to defend against them, ya know? As a HWG I just get slaughtered by them because I can't turn around fast enough to see them coming. Agreeing with the OP on this one. QFT. I'll be assist whoring a heavy and then all of a sudden double backstab dumb spy cloaks and runs off 'lulzing' in chat.
NO BRAKES GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 12:12:00 - [91] Having an unsecure TS and letting passwords leak to the public does not constitute hacking.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.03 12:38:00 - [92] Originally by: prsr Give me a break, these are just baseless claims. Spying has been part of EVE since the very start. Bob certainly wasn't the first alliance employing a spy network. They did have some high-profile successes because of it that made more people decide to get in on the spying action but so did the GHSC and many others. GHSC spied for the purpose of thieving. But even so, I don't think they had more spies than bob. So, since my claims are completely baseless, I ask that you give me the name of another alliance that had a spy network comparable to BOB's sometime before '05.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 12:43:00 - [93] Originally by: Drago Vanguard Edited by: Drago Vanguard on 03/10/2007 05:12:46 Let me clarify some things here... The Goons didn't just enter the RISE TS and run around doing their usual BS. They used various holes in the TS software to obtain server admin and caused damage to the server software itself, necessitating a full server reset. That's not just morally wrong, that's illegal. As far as I know, legal action is currently being looked into. I think the community as a whole is not only sick of the Goons' general asshattery, but their disregard for the law. The Goons are taking their BS too far and there are going to be reprocussions. cool let me know how your frivolous lawsuit goes.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.10.03 12:48:00 - [94] Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick. Time to ban BoB I guess? ------------------------------------------------ New idea for sovereignty: Sovereignty revisited
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.03 12:56:00 - [95] Originally by: Areena Shay Hey genius. This isn't real life! This is a game! Using real life to justify conduct in a game is pathetic and stupid. Here watch: Well since the CIA spys, it should be ok for NFL teams to spy on other teams! Tell your momma I am coming over to spank you. It's a war game. And in war, you use spies.
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.03 13:04:00 - [96] Spying..its one of those things you have to decide for your self how far it should go. I donÆt like it that much tbh, some small scale alt spying from time to time I'd say yes but disrupting coms and leaking information to forums... nah...not sure tbh. To each is their own I guess but its an interesting topic, but keep it cool, dont point the finger to anyone, its a discussion, not a trial. I actually read an interesting thing in newspaper today that could be applied here. Sort of anyway. Its RL and has no bearing in EVE I admit that but for arguments sake here it is. Of course there might be different laws and interpretations in different countries, states, unions. The interesting part is what ties into things is being said here in regards to HOW information was acquired and (presumably/maybe) used as an advantage. The story is that a big airline got fined for spying/having access to information they should not have had. The two airlines in question used to have mutual booking system etc but the relationship was terminated some time ago. However, the bigger of the two STILL had access to the systems due to the other company not removing their access and the now fined airline did not tell. (That would be the same as having a char leave but forgetting to revoke forum access ) The court wanted to fine them Ç800,000 but it was cut down to Ç500,000 because that it was partially not their fault due to the security screw up of the other company BUT the point still stands, they were found GUILTY of spying just for having access to the information regardless if they had used the information or not. It was ASSUMED that they had used it but as far as I understand it the evidence for that was not very strong, it was just assumed that since they had the access they had used it. Now, this is as I said EVE and not RL but the argument here is that even if you have gotten access from a misunderstanding, a security screw up or what ever and by that mistake gives you access to information you should not have and you dont not alert the proper persons you are maybe guilty of "spying" and could be charged with it. I use the words æmaybeÆ and æcouldÆ last here since the fined airline was found not guilty at first. But it takes little away from the original argument imo (and that was the point of the charge). And this argument does not make any of it 100% correct, its just that, an argument backed with some RL information that I in my infinite wisdom of legal issues* have interpreted. END RANT. Cheers, Lowa * I may or may not have been arrested a few times... Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) What if the truth was something else?
Karim alRashid Gallente principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.03 13:06:00 - [97] Originally by: Areena Shay Spying on TS and disabling TS services and forums means you suck at Eve Being in need of TS and forums means you suck at EVE. RIGHT ?
Soros 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.10.03 13:06:00 - [98] Ingame spying... james bond .. cool metagaming, crashing teamspeak hacking forums etc ... not cool
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.10.03 13:15:00 - [99] Originally by: Levka In game spying is fine, but hacking web sites is 2 much imo. BNC and BoB sites were hacked on multiple occasions and its really annoying. So how do you feel about Lallante being in your Alliance? I don't know what it's like in BoB and, frankly, the more I work with them directly the less I am starting to care. -Seleene, [BDCI] <MC>
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.03 13:18:00 - [100] Originally by: Soros metagaming, ... not cool you just spoke against 90% of the alliances ingame.
tesame	Posted - 2007.10.03 13:30:00 - [101] I think spying should be allowed; however, if CCP can give corps away to torture the spy and if necessary POD them with out having to hunt them down an shot them. Give us a button to push that would kill a spy in your corp. Now that would be great
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.03 13:33:00 - [102] Originally by: tesame I think spying should be allowed; however, if CCP can give corps away to torture the spy and if necessary POD them with out having to hunt them down an shot them. Give us a button to push that would kill a spy in your corp. Now that would be great this doesn't even make sense
Vando Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.03 13:50:00 - [103] Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: tesame I think spying should be allowed; however, if CCP can give corps away to torture the spy and if necessary POD them with out having to hunt them down an shot them. Give us a button to push that would kill a spy in your corp. Now that would be great this doesn't even make sense This is an awesome idea, from the corp window you could have an option 'execute spy'. It would be terrible for catching spies but HILARIOUS for directorate griefing opportunities
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.10.03 15:22:00 - [104] Originally by: Firkragg Originally by: General Apocalypse STUFF To be honest it would be nice if there was a way to give somone the rights to drag people around ts without allowing them to start deleting accounts and stuff. Talk to your superadmin the owner of the server can do that in seconds if he knows his stuff , or let the internal security guy configure the server . Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.10.03 15:22:00 - [105] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: Soros metagaming, ... not cool you just spoke against 90% of the alliances ingame. Define Metagaming pls . Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.03 15:50:00 - [106] Originally by: General Apocalypse Define Metagaming pls . again? oy. okie dokie, here goes. a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Examples of metagaming * There is a special set of moves in chess which allows a player to win in four moves. Competitor A has been watching Competitor B play chess, and the past five games in a row Competitor B has attempted to use this four-move win. When Competitor A sits down to play against Competitor B, Competitor A will be metagaming if he/she plays in a way that will easily thwart the four-move checkmate before Competitor B makes it obvious that this is what he/she is doing. * Metagaming is often cyclical. Imagine there is a collectible card game which contains a card X that says "if your opponent controls card Y, he/she loses the game." Card X is very powerful, and so to avoid it most people have stopped playing card Y. These people are metagaming because they have changed their decisions in anticipation of people playing card X. Then, people notice that nobody is playing card Y so they take card X out of their decks, since it is worthless otherwise. This is metagaming again because they have changed their decisions in anticipation of their opponent's decisions. Then, people notice that everyone has stopped playing card X, and so they begin to play card Y again since it's safe. This, yet again, is metagaming. This cycle can continue indefinitely. A recent slang definition of Metagaming, popular among computer and video game fans, is any tactic in a computer or video game that uses one or more features of that game that lie outside the intended gameplay use, or exploit errors in programming structures. If, for example, one took advantage of a bug in the game to gain some advantage, that would be metagaming. An example would be deliberately getting one's character killed in order to return to the last saved game. so, if a corporation/alliance has NEVER used any exploit, or extra knowledge (i.e. on test) to their advantage and does not use external factors to affect the game, or go beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game; then, they've not metagamed. the game environment, if you think about it, would be ingame, and possibly, these forums. outside of that, you'd be outside the limits/environment of the game, because it's not part OF the game.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.03 15:53:00 - [107] if you think about it, you could almost say that anyone "thinking or planning ahead", after studying their opponent, is in fact metagaming. the use of spies is definitely in this category. the use of ts/vent/non-eve-o websites & forums -- they're not part of the game itself, i.e. not under ccp control -- wouldn't all of those also be considered "metagaming"?
Quizzicality	Posted - 2007.10.05 02:53:00 - [108] You obviously have no concept of real-world warfare. It's not just about winning, it's about minimizing losses. -Quizzicality Murky Inc.
CrispyKritters Caldari GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:20:00 - [109] Edited by: CrispyKritters on 05/10/2007 05:20:17 Originally by: Postlatta Mouseanon Edited by: Postlatta Mouseanon on 03/10/2007 04:04:01 Originally by: Areena Shay You say you had a password. Quite possible you hacked. Question for the jury I suspect. Well the address the issue from the standpoint of reality, it doesn't matter how they got the password. In the USA (And I'll assume the EU) using a password which was not intended for you is a felony. In short, any computer system, even one with a sign on it that reads "This has no password but do not access it" is protected by law. Once you access a computer system (or service running on a computer system) without authorization- it becomes a felony. Use of any means to circumvent a security measure (Including a purloined password) just makes the offense aggravated. Apparently... the g00ns admit to committing a felony in the pursuit of playing a game? I am not a lawyer- I'm an IT director. But I think that is what my legal department would say about it. Seems pretty stupid actually. If you need to go that far to play a game something is wrong with your life. But for the record: In game spying is part of the game. Cool. As a side note: If I were CCP and an alliance purloined a TS password from the opposition, and entered their TS server- I'd pull out the ban stick. Please serve us some papers about TS hacking to our lawyers otherwise you're talking out your rearend.
Ahistaja GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.05 07:23:00 - [110] Originally by: CrispyKritters Please serve us some papers about TS hacking to our lawyers otherwise you're talking out your rearend. I dunno man, I totally committed a felony. Is it OK to admit it right here? Ha ha.
Dagam GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.05 08:36:00 - [111] Originally by: Kaldaine Would you like to do any of the above when I say that a BoB member hired a hacker to hack our forums? Would you like to further refute the fact that the same member is the one responsible for getting the T20 scandal into the limelight by not paying said hacker? How come you do not make any accusations on said topic but feel so strongly about the TS incident? This.
Ostr0mir Redshift Riders	Posted - 2007.10.05 09:03:00 - [112] IMHO, spies are not are problem, if necessary precautions are taken. It's as simple as having coverts in neighbour systems. If you don't have 'em, you will get screwed. ----------------------- Si vic pacem? Have a cap fleet!
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.05 09:06:00 - [113] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz So, since my claims are completely baseless, I ask that you give me the name of another alliance that had a spy network comparable to BOB's sometime before '05. Shamis, just give up with the "BoB are the root of all evil" stuff, seriously. I had a corp back in 03/04 which had probably a larger spy network (certainly in terms of % of playerbase) than any that exists today. (Latro Militaris, you can check - there are also related forum posts from back then.) Spying is not new to Eve, BoB didn't start it, and they probably aren't the heaviest users of it. For what it is worth, my network ran mostly on paid informants and double agents (other players, not alts). I used alts only in active target corps, and corps of special interest. I used only information which was provided to me, or access which I was expected to have. To be fair, the out of game methods of communication so popular now were not so widely used then. Gaining access to anything without being given that access never crossed my mind. That isn't playing the game, that is playing the internet. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Uberapan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.05 12:53:00 - [114] I think spying is just part of Eve's high stakes game and the mere necessity of keeping a spy network and counter-intel just goes to show how interesting this game is and how much is at stake. That's what makes Eve unique. Instead of crying about it you should expect that spies are everywhere and embrace it. It takes a huge amount of work to get into a position of power as a spy, and I think that's very impressive when pulled off correctly. I applaud CCP for creating a game that has spawned such an interesting meta-game. I for one think it's more interesting than the actual game in many ways
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.05 13:58:00 - [115] Originally by: Uberapan I think spying is just part of Eve's high stakes game and the mere necessity of keeping a spy network and counter-intel just goes to show how interesting this game is and how much is at stake. That's what makes Eve unique. Instead of crying about it you should expect that spies are everywhere and embrace it. It takes a huge amount of work to get into a position of power as a spy, and I think that's very impressive when pulled off correctly. I applaud CCP for creating a game that has spawned such an interesting meta-game. I for one think it's more interesting than the actual game in many ways QFT
Stork DK Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2007.10.05 14:10:00 - [116] I so much love to log into my alt account and read the war targets corp chat Lets me know when to make a gtfo! -------------- Originally by: omiNATION Originally by: Triumdicta we're getting a new kind of ore? CAREBEAR ALERT
Laissezfaire Minmatar Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.10.05 14:18:00 - [117] Originally by: Karim alRashid Originally by: Areena Shay Spying on TS and disabling TS services and forums means you suck at Eve Being in need of TS and forums means you suck at EVE. RIGHT ? As does playing with a GUI. GUI's mean you have viewed information that could be used by a spy. Monochrome Green Screen Monitor is the only way to fly.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.05 14:54:00 - [118] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Shamis Orzoz So, since my claims are completely baseless, I ask that you give me the name of another alliance that had a spy network comparable to BOB's sometime before '05. Shamis, just give up with the "BoB are the root of all evil" stuff, seriously. I never said bob was the root of all evil. There are plenty of worse people. You are ****s though.
Lunas Feelgood S.A.S Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:05:00 - [119] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Shamis Orzoz I never said bob was the root of all evil. There are plenty of worse people. You are **s though. Yeah, thanks for the personal insult Shamis, way to go Captain Generalisation. Still you are entitled to your opinion, even if it is baseless. Personally I have never had a bad word to say about the members of your corp I have met, and I have very much enjoyed socialising and drinking with them. If they are of the same mind as you, then I can respect their opinion because I know they have formed it based on personal experience. Your opinion, however, I can not respect, only accept. Actually Shamis is right you are ** Picture Image changed to link as you may only have 1 image in your signature. -Yipsilanti ([email protected])
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:07:00 - [120] Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Actually Shamis is right you are ** His 's are different to your **'s. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Lunas Feelgood S.A.S Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:08:00 - [121] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Actually Shamis is right you are ** His 's are different to your **'s. Picture Image changed to link as you may only have 1 image in your signature. -Yipsilanti ([email protected])
Mag's MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:09:00 - [122] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Lunas Feelgood Actually Shamis is right you are ** His 's are different to your 's. You should all wash your mouths out with ** Mag's
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:12:00 - [123] Edited by: Nlewis on 05/10/2007 15:12:41 didn't ccp themselves say they encouraged activities as spying and scamming. I thought I read that somewhere from a dev. if that is infact true then why are people *****ing about it
Boomershoot Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:24:00 - [124] ppl that whine about spying while the game mechs and the CCP itself try to encourage IG scamming are just wasting theyr time, and so am i posting in 5-pages-long thread full of useless bull**** get over it, that's all ----------------------------------------------- Forum Warfare - Rank (4) - Level V Forum Warfare Specialist - Rank (9) - Level III Armor Flame Compensation - Rank (5) - Level IV
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:39:00 - [125] Originally by: Avon Yeah, thanks for the personal insult Shamis, way to go Captain Generalisation. Still you are entitled to your opinion, even if it is baseless. Personally I have never had a bad word to say about the members of your corp I have met, and I have very much enjoyed socialising and drinking with them. If they are of the same mind as you, then I can respect their opinion because I know they have formed it based on personal experience. Your opinion, however, I can not respect, only accept. After playing this game for 4 years, I've met enough bobbits to stand by my statement. I have had a couple friends in bob, but they were few and far between. Most of the people in bob that I've ever had the pleasure of speaking to in local, or sparring with on the forums, or had convo's with...were ****s. Obviously there are some nice people in bob, but they are either the minority, or the very silent majority.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:44:00 - [126] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Originally by: Avon Yeah, thanks for the personal insult Shamis, way to go Captain Generalisation. Still you are entitled to your opinion, even if it is baseless. Personally I have never had a bad word to say about the members of your corp I have met, and I have very much enjoyed socialising and drinking with them. If they are of the same mind as you, then I can respect their opinion because I know they have formed it based on personal experience. Your opinion, however, I can not respect, only accept. After playing this game for 4 years, I've met enough bobbits to stand by my statement. I have had a couple friends in bob, but they were few and far between. Most of the people in bob that I've ever had the pleasure of speaking to in local, or sparring with on the forums, or had convo's with...were **s. Obviously there are some nice people in bob, but they are either the minority, or the very silent majority. yeah. I always enjoy when you find an enemy that is not a total ***, and actually have a converstation with them. it is interesting to hear someone on the other sides opinion on things going on while being completely rational
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:50:00 - [127] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz After playing this game for 4 years, I've met enough bobbits to stand by my statement. I have had a couple friends in bob, but they were few and far between. Most of the people in bob that I've ever had the pleasure of speaking to in local, or sparring with on the forums, or had convo's with...were ****s. Obviously there are some nice people in bob, but they are either the minority, or the very silent majority. Oh, right. So you are judging people on their internet personalities? Way to go. Because, like, we all know that everyone who kills in a game is a murderer in real life, and that anyone who smacks in local would also cuss their grandmothers, right? Right? I reserve my judgement until I have actually met people, and generally the Eve people I meet are very cool - no matter what sort of character they portray in an internet spaceships game. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.05 15:52:00 - [128] Originally by: Nlewis yeah. I always enjoy when you find an enemy that is not a total *****, and actually have a converstation with them. it is interesting to hear someone on the other sides opinion on things going on while being completely rational I love that too ... although the alcohol levels tend to play hell with the rational bit :/ The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.05 18:06:00 - [129] Originally by: Avon Oh, right. So you are judging people on their internet personalities? Way to go. Because, like, we all know that everyone who kills in a game is a murderer in real life, and that anyone who smacks in local would also cuss their grandmothers, right? Right? I reserve my judgement until I have actually met people, and generally the Eve people I meet are very cool - no matter what sort of character they portray in an internet spaceships game. I don't care what they do in real life. I don't know them in real life.
Tyrus Tenebros Resolute Corp	Posted - 2007.10.05 21:17:00 - [130] How can you not think spying is legitimate? Forums and especially TS are used in a nearly In-game manner, it's barely even "meta-gaming" to gain access to your enemies comm channels as part of a WAR SIMULATION... what do you think BILLIONS are spent on in real life wars? You think the US won the Battle of Midway because we GUESSED where the Japanese carriers were? BOOKS have been written about the codebreaking and infiltration needed to do that... it may be a game, but the game simulates war, and espionage is a huge factor in war.. stfu and stop crying because you think you're opponents do it unfairly. You use something to transfer in-game information, it becomes fair game for tactics related to the game, end of story.
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.05 21:48:00 - [131] Originally by: Kaldaine Would you like to do any of the above when I say that a BoB member hired a hacker to hack our forums? Would you like to further refute the fact that the same member is the one responsible for getting the T20 scandal into the limelight by not paying said hacker? How come you do not make any accusations on said topic but feel so strongly about the TS incident? Hey look a question replied to with an uncomfortable silence I think I'll just point it out a bit more
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.05 22:15:00 - [132] Edited by: Factor Benz on 05/10/2007 22:17:05 Edited by: Factor Benz on 05/10/2007 22:16:10 Postin' to clear a few laffos up. Goons did nothing but log in to a server using credentials provided to goons by RISE. RISE did have an attack on their TS server the day BEFORE goons accessed their server which was entirely unrelated. Some of their more idiotic members decided it was Goons who hacked them, and thus this moronic RISE alt post. It was that attack which caused them to be using a server which was unsecured, which was the server Goons connected to on a lark. I'm lollin' at Avon's LOOK AT ME LOVE ME DADDY I HAD THE AWESOMEST SPY NETWORK EVER post. You are a twit and you are pretty awful at making whatever point you're trying to make. Your posts stink and Shamis is right, BoB is pretty much comprised of wannabe ubergaming *******s. I bet it sucks going to the arcade everyday to try and keep your high score in that number one slot, only to find a week later that you're a top 5 player at best. Especially if your entire persona is wrapped around that top score. Sucks to be you. It really doesn't matter what you think your involvement is in real life with any aspect of computer crime. Anyone actually involved in the prosecution of those situations would look at the arguments raised in this thread about "hacking", and blow milk out their nose laughing. It's a game you nits. If you think someone hacked your TS server, then report it. Last I checked this wasn't the Computer Crimes forum. Or, perhaps you have and are posting here because you're still feeling the burn of being laughed out of the room. To Mr. "I'm not a lawyer I'm an IT director", we know. We can tell by your post. Don't quit your day job.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.05 22:22:00 - [133] Originally by: Scatim Helicon Originally by: Kaldaine Would you like to do any of the above when I say that a BoB member hired a hacker to hack our forums? Would you like to further refute the fact that the same member is the one responsible for getting the T20 scandal into the limelight by not paying said hacker? How come you do not make any accusations on said topic but feel so strongly about the TS incident? Hey look a question replied to with an uncomfortable silence I think I'll just point it out a bit more are you sure that wasn't answered already?
Digicomm 101st Space Marine Force	Posted - 2007.10.05 22:52:00 - [134] I spiez with my lol eye somefin that is goon.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.05 23:35:00 - [135] Originally by: Digicomm I spiez with my lol eye somefin that is goon. is that akin to the eye of terror?
Ungdall Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.06 03:57:00 - [136] Well, I was gonna post something about how atl east you people are lucky that your forums aren't considered to be some of the most spy ridden there are, but I have spotted a trail of ants leading up my desk and to a plate of pizza I was not aware of. Excuse me whilst I have dinner.

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