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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Aykido
Gallente Lobster of Babel
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Posted - 2007.10.15 22:02:00 -
[121]
Prices are irrelevant.
Invention has driven down the price of overpriced ships. These will continue to sell at 20-50% above the total costs involved in invention. Stupid people run quickly out of business.
Excel is definately the inventors friend.
But the end result of these price changes, caused by the advent of T2 Battleships (invention only), is that the BPO holder of any product that uses ship decryptors or mech eng datacores or both for invention will see their profit margins rise again.
Those inventors that haven't already raised all their T2 ship prices by at least 20% in the past week are now loosing money.
Selling PERFECT PRINTS of all seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (2 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Also any INVENTED T2 BPC and max run invention prints in bulk! |
Ciara Daag
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Posted - 2007.10.15 23:25:00 -
[122]
While I think this is a good thing in general to allow inventors to choose which variant,I see a big problem with this. Some ships are cheaper because they are less capable and less in demand. A favorite example of this is the Raptor. I like to fly Raptors as they work pretty much as well in their primary role,that is,getting to the enemy fast and getting a web and scram on them,but end up being more lightly armed. I don't really care about this because my job isn't to kill the enemy when I'm flying one but instead to lock him down so my corp-mates can finish him off.While the Raptor can do the interceptor job nearly as well as the crow, it simply isnt worth as much as the crow because it cant carry as heavy of weapons (at least not when you have the proper mwd,web and scram fitted) Now that inventors can choose to create either, Raptors simply will not be built. One might argue that the scarcity of Raptors will cause the market to adjust making the Raptors profitable to invent,but the problem is,the Raptors is ONLY desirable as a cheap alternative to the Crow. Now no Raptors will be built.
Similar arguments will apply to many of the other TII items. Whichever item is considered more desirable and therefore can get the higher price will be made. The other simply wont be available. While its true that there are still bpos out there,it still will cause shortages. Overall,there needs to be some reason to make these items.Perhaps it might be easier to make them,or at similar difficulty it you might get a BPC with a higher number of runs.
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Stahanov Iv
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Posted - 2007.10.16 13:38:00 -
[123]
CCP You better put decriptors to RP shops like datacores, looks like time for buy all available decryptors on market for future resell ... price go high like rockets!
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Olivin
Gallente Aquarium
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Posted - 2007.10.17 00:09:00 -
[124]
Well, CCP failed COSMOS and now COSMOS failing CCP.
As far as I remember CCP promised a wonderland in COSMOS, including some cool "mini-professions" and T3. Instead, we got mediocre BPC for the meta items with fancy names and insane build requirements and ability (just recently) to make a some isk by farming hacking complexes. ( Note, before invention, all items aside from the skill books, were pretty much worthless)
Farming hacking sites problem? Please consider this:
a) For COSMOS missions you don't really need to be there. b) For making isk, it's not different then farming belts or normal complex, or mining. c) Moving hacking containers will increase prices for the invention items. d) People who whine about farmers blocking containers or doing some other dirty tricks has no clue or probably never been at any COSMOS hacking site.
Solution: Instead of the whining on the forums about COSMOS farmers, - get the gang together and farm yourself.
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We¦re not lost. We¦re locationally challenged. |
Ischia
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Posted - 2007.10.19 05:48:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Drenan
seem to be designed to appeal to a sub-set of a sub-set of hair-shirt wearing former MUD players, like Invention?
lol...now *that* sounds like me.
I've done a fair bit of invention, and it is rapidly losing its appeal even to one such hair shirt wearer.
The fact that you pay a fortune to begin invention, then pay a fortune to try inventing something, then when you succeed (with completely unpublished mechanisms), you get a BP that can not be improved (researched) and which, when you build, will often ncost twice what a T2 ME 0 BP would cost is just...to much hair, even for me.
However, you need to realize that the recent crashes in T2 item costs which help with the pew-pew are largely down to invention. Just look at the historical pricing on a few T2 items to realize just how much money the T2 lottery winners were raking in.
What we need now is either a way to research BPCs or a way to turn BPCs into BPOs.
As for gameplay improvements, I'd love them too...
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LukeSzkajvoker
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Posted - 2007.10.19 12:20:00 -
[126]
Well, I'm sure the devs keep in secret the invention formula because it's absolutely random and they don't want we know this. :)
At least tell us pls when the game decide the invention will success or fail. I mean when it starts or when I push the deliver button or when the job finished or whenever? I ask it because what is the situation if I start a job with good skills in a POS and my corp member pushes the deliver button who has no invention skills at all or just has less skills? I haven't tried this yet but interesting what happen? So pls some info.
(my personal comment for the hacking plaxes changes: I don't agree with it. The decryptors prices will increase. I don't belive that if they will move to random spawn plaxes the same amount of it will get to the market for example in Jita and therefore its prices will be horrible -> invention (whit this success rate!!) will cost much more -> t2 ships modules etc will increase terrible too! I agree with stop farming but should find an other way to do this!)
regards
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.22 08:20:00 -
[127]
So how about making Exploration easier so I don't need a dedicated probing alt just to play the game? -----
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Vitaki
Rens 911
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Posted - 2007.10.22 10:15:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Vitaki on 22/10/2007 10:24:31
Originally by: Valen Haas why don't CCP make invention of BPOs possible. seems like a nice solution if:
Can only invent T2 BPOs from T1 BPOs. Requires a load more datacores to invent BPOs. Has a lower chance of success. Invented T2 BPOs has a low starting ME so require research to be made profitable.
easy eh?
Seriously, this is a really good idea, why make BPO holders the privileged few? Sure they had to train a bunch of research agents to get these BPO's but they have made their incredible profits from them. Now give everyone else a chance and put the inventors on equal footing with the bpo holders. Why adhere to this bizarre plebeian / nobleman distinction that currently seperates the two types of manufactures?
People would still be using research agents to generate datacores but then the datacores would possibly move to creating bpo's rather than a bunch of bpc's that work to give me carpal tunnel to make decent profits, I have to do 40 or 60 invention jobs per day to keep my 20 manufacturing slots full, thats a hell of a lot of clicking. Invention as it stands is way too complicated and clunkey, but I guess thats why there are not tons of people doing it.
I wonder if CCP thought that invention would be broken into job specialties? Did they think that there would be pos managers, hackers, inventors, manufacturers, data core sellers etc all individually making these? Did they look and see that one person or corp efficently managing the chain would make all small time producers unprofitable?
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Mannakin
Caldari Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.22 14:43:00 -
[129]
Originally by: LukeSzkajvoker At least tell us pls when the game decide the invention will success or fail. I mean when it starts or when I push the deliver button or when the job finished or whenever? I ask it because what is the situation if I start a job with good skills in a POS and my corp member pushes the deliver button who has no invention skills at all or just has less skills? I haven't tried this yet but interesting what happen? So pls some info.
As far as I know, if your unskilled corp mate delivers the job, you get nothing. Or that is my experience and 2nd hand information anyways.
Why not add the decryptors (or some of them at least) to the LP point system? You could even put the encryption methods skills in the LP system.
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Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:21:00 -
[130]
This is an excellent change to invention and a huge step forward concerning decryptors, unless of course you don't put out enough exploration sites to compensate for the loss of supply.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.25 19:24:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Uni, for your information, I want to cite this post by Akita
Originally by: Akita T What the heck are you still doing here reading ? GO PLACE YOUR ORDERS !
Later in the same thread she admitted having brough all teh decryptor she could so she was pushing for a faster increase in price. As you can see the push to increase prices was there well before october.
Actualy, I started buying decryptors on the 13th of September, following the developement of a pretty accurate "invention costs analysis" XLS in this thread that started on the 11th of September. Pretty easy to remember dates, mind you, 9/11 and 9/13. I started the other thread (the one VM quoted from) on the 18th of September, roughly one week later. Also, he almost makes it sound like I had something to hide and was "found out" that I've been buying up, when I admited to it pretty much from the get-go (my initial purchase spree was pretty much over by then). _
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Sgt Napalm
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.25 19:32:00 -
[132]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi
Chronotis, are you following up on the booster side of things? If so please follow the link.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=617924
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Nixxxs
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Posted - 2007.10.29 03:36:00 -
[133]
I liked invention till.... They made it require insane amounts of level 5 skills. They may not be required but if you want decent chances and % of success you need allot of V skills. ThatĘs why they wont ever publish the formulas because it would probably anger too many people.
Personally I Like the complexity of the system, But donĘt fail like eq2 did. The rare components ended up being worth more than the finished product so crafting was worthless in that game if you make them too rare thatĘs what happens when you pull a boner on a crafting system.
The fact the invention system is so complex it scares away most players rather quickly, which is great more money for me. Rofl
I however see a HUGE problem with inventioną.
How many T2 blueprint originals are floating around before you up and changed the rules? Those need to go away for the system to truly work. Otherwise older folks with t2 blueprint originals are going to always clobber inventors and itĘs going to implode on it self as the inventor has 0% chance to compete price wise with a T2 OBP copier.
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Ischia
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Posted - 2007.10.30 05:39:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Nixxxs ThatĘs why they wont ever publish the formulas because it would probably anger too many people.
I suspect they won't publich it because they are still regularly tweaking it and/or they use it as a tool to control market prices.
Originally by: Nixxxs How many T2 blueprint originals...Those need to go away...Otherwise older folks with t2 blueprint originals are going to always clobber inventors
I think they need to provide 1 of 2 things to substantially reduce this problem:
- Allow ME/PE research on BPCs - Allow invention to create BPOs by some mechanism.
or...as you say, invention will just be a means to provide a price cap on T2 items.
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Pedro Montana
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Posted - 2007.11.02 16:27:00 -
[135]
I explore heavily. I have found many radar sites in empire-lowsec-0.0. Ive tried Cosmos.
My thoughts on cosmos:
Take all the worst parts of farming you find in Everquest and WOW cram it into a itty-bitty little space...and make it so that a small number of people can control it.
Moving things outta cosmos complexes is absolutely wonderful. I just hope the number of decyptors found in radar sites go up significantly to keep invention prices down. (I dont invent yet but I love buying cheap covert cloaks for example).
Wonderful news.
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Ischia
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:17:00 -
[136]
In retrospect, I think this:
Originally by: Ischia
- Allow ME/PE research on BPCs
will only be useful to make small T2 ship construction profitable, and is not much use even for that.
And this:
Originally by: Ischia
- Allow invention to create (possibly limited run) BPOs by some mechanism.
Is really the only way to make invention competitive with BPOs.
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari Life is Experience
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Posted - 2007.11.13 10:28:00 -
[137]
I'm not going to pretend that I've done invention on a large scale, or actually completed a job succesfully, but from reading the forums and talking to people who do this "skill based" profession it seems no better than the T2 lottery.
The main difference is that the results of "winning" is far less profitable than the original T2 BPO Lottery. Atleast they called it what it was.
Now it's an expensive, time consuming and purely chance based (from this thread alone, with maxed skills there's still no guarantee of getting a positive result) past time that's one of the biggest ISK Sinks in the game.
I didn't start playing Eve because I thought it was a dice roll to hit type of game. We have skills. Most of the skills have the exact % of improvement in its description. When people build things with the right amount of minerals, it's built. It's not luck. Even, the Reverse Engineering skill I can see on Eve Mon (haven't looked for it on the market) is based on a percentage of luck but I don't know if the numbers will be published either.
Tactics and Skill should mean the difference between success and failure not Random Luck.
Leave luck to the gamblers.
Life is about memories the more the better. End Slavery. |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.11.19 19:42:00 -
[138]
Making invention materials available at locations other than cosmos farmplexes is a great idea.
However, you can't simply take the number spawned in cosmos and move those to explorations. You need to have many many more waiting to be found in explorations than you did in cosmos, because a tiny portion of the exploration sites will be found.
There needs to be enough out there so that what *is* found can be an equal supply - or greater supply, actually, if we're unhappy with how high the prices are.
Likewise it would be a mistake tojust move all these to 0.0 explorations: You need explorations in hi sec and low sec turning up at least some of the materials produced or again, inventors will experience a drastic drying up of their materials.
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Ischia
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Posted - 2007.11.22 11:36:00 -
[139]
Upon re-re-reflectiom (or is that re-retrospect?)...and talking mostly to myself, I think this:
Originally by: Ischia
- Allow ME/PE research on BPCs
Would actually help; cruiser class invention jobs suffer greatly from low ME.
And this:
Originally by: Ischia
- Allow invention to create (possibly limited run) BPOs by some mechanism.
Would be a valid solution if they we limited in some way, but the winds of change may dictate no more BPOs in game.
So...my next thought was "reduce the consumption rate of datacores and decrypters on some jobs", but this is equivalent to "increase the success chance". Which is what is happening in R3. Which then leads to the problem that invention costs in battleships should not make them too cheap....which is also being fixed by the differential changes being introduced. Hmmmm.
So what's left?
- a path to effectively decommission T2 BPOs; this can be handled by slowly increasing invention chances. OR:
- a way to get close to BPO ME/PE. I'd still like to be able to research BPCs. Make it take time. Make it require high skills. Even, add 'Reverse Engineering' to go from BPC to *limited copy* or *limited run* BPO. So: [invent]->BPC->[rev. eng]->limited BPO->[research]->better ME/PE
ISTM that there should be a theoretical way to get from a BPC to an *efficient* BPC.
Part of the economy is about (materially) efficient production, another part is about (player/virtual time) efficient production. I'm happy to wait longer to get a BPC/O that saves me money. If it's slow, I will never out-compete a BPO owner, but I will get a usable BPC/O.
Finally, I could go looking for my own decrypters etc (and thereby reduce the price if more did the same), but I don't because (a) I'll probably get ganked in lo-sec/0.0 while searching and (b) even if I do find one, chances are some farmer or other person will beat me to it anyway. The coming changes may address this, but the prospects of searching for at least an hour only to lose what I find to another player, who maybe only found it because they followed me, is just ... not fun.
However...this may just reflect my complete ignorance on the subject of exploration.
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