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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:27:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky
The new output tab show up in all windows (manufacturing, copying and so on).
The new ship types (heavy interdictors) aren't associated with normal factories as can be seen here.
Also, any particular reason why Heavy Interdictors need Cruiser Construction 5 when no other cruiser sized ships do?
none of that stuff is ready for testing yet, just the invention part has already been completed for testing, which you have already experimented with. The assembly lines have been internally updated (something we have to do with any new ship class additions).
Balancing is ongoing now internally still but expect the cruiser construction to drop to level 4 and likewise with the T2 battleship science skill manufacturing requirements next week when the science and industry part of the new ships will be ready for public testing.
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Gestation
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:36:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Gestation
At least tell us you're not going to tell us or something. Anything!
Relax, some things we cannot answer straight away :), there is no plans to publish the formula or show the effects.
I really don't mean to sound 'whiney' and all - I truely do love the game - I wouldn't be here otherwise.
But - don't you think that is an unfair advantage the devs and GM's have? Knowing those formulas would really help when deciding what to invent, and how often.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:37:00 -
[33]
Re: cosmos modules
yes, the build requirements are very 'unique' and an issue we have been aware of for some time. It will be getting attention but cannot say anything more specific than that currently.
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Dellirium Tremens
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Two step Any chance while you are messing with COSMOS you might fix the absurdly low drop rates for some of the components needed to build COSMOS items? Takmahl Tri-polished lenses are next to impossible to find, for example.
+1
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:51:00 -
[35]
Good stuff.
RE: Cosmos. While I think just moving the farmable Cosmos sites to LoSec would have solved the problem, this solution makes sense too. Plus as a sometime Explorer, I stand to make some iskies from it. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:01:00 -
[36]
First: Thanks for the ‘Output Type’ box. This is really a major improvement (and IŠve tested it already on Sisi).
I still have a few requests in regards of invention: Invention formula: I accept, that you donŠt publish the formula for invention (altough it would be great), but could you please tell us if adding a T1 ship to an invention job has any influence? Will you make any changes to the invention formula for Kali 3? How about an influence of ME and PE of the T1 BPC? How about changing the Boni of decryptors, as they are currently quite unbalanced? How about adding a method of improving the ME-level of the T2 BPC?
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:01:00 -
[37]
I updated the blog to clarify the COSMOS complexes themselves are not getting removed, just the hacking containers that drop the invention items.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:06:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Helison
I still have a few requests in regards of invention: Invention formula: I accept, that you donŠt publish the formula for invention (altough it would be great), but could you please tell us if adding a T1 ship to an invention job has any influence? Will you make any changes to the invention formula for Kali 3? How about an influence of ME and PE of the T1 BPC? How about changing the Boni of decryptors, as they are currently quite unbalanced? How about adding a method of improving the ME-level of the T2 BPC?
all of this is will be discussed in the next blog about invention. All I can say at this time is internal discussions are ongoing.
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Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:15:00 -
[39]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
all of this is will be discussed in the next blog about invention. All I can say at this time is internal discussions are ongoing.
Thanks for the answer! Looking forward to the next blog!
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Gestation
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:26:00 -
[40]
Excellent. Thank you. At least now we know our questions aren't being ignored. At the meeting, please allow someone to note that with the devs having an unfair advantage, it seriously impacts the fairness (and quality) of the game, and should not be taken lightly or 'brushed off' as something unimportant. It is very important to the community, as evidenced by the endless threads concerning invention. Thanks again.
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Vitaki
Rens 911
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:30:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis we are moving not removing the invention items supply from COSMOS which means yes, the same amount items will be distributed by exploration now rather than split between exploration and COSMOS as currently is the case.
Except hardly anyone does exploration so the items will become ultra rare. Just look at the prices for dadspace items of all types they have gone WAY up in value because the supply has completely dried up. It's bizzare how out of contact you seem to be that you haven't realized that taking away static complexes has vastly increased the rarity of all items that used to spawn there.
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Zikka
The Establishment
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:34:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Vitaki
Originally by: CCP Chronotis we are moving not removing the invention items supply from COSMOS which means yes, the same amount items will be distributed by exploration now rather than split between exploration and COSMOS as currently is the case.
Except hardly anyone does exploration so the items will become ultra rare. Just look at the prices for dadspace items of all types they have gone WAY up in value because the supply has completely dried up. It's bizzare how out of contact you seem to be that you haven't realized that taking away static complexes has vastly increased the rarity of all items that used to spawn there.
Which is extra incentive to get out there and get exploring!
Having said that the number and quality of results from exploration could probably do with some work...
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Vitaki
Rens 911
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:35:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar Ignore the whining, I think this is a good step forward!
How much invention do you do making this statement? Do you understand how this will affect everyone that currently does invention? I have like 4 characters and 3 alts dedicated to invention and production and 20 slots full time producing t2 moduls 7 days a week. This change removing cosmos complexes could quite possibly make ship invention untenable, if you don't have access to relativly cheap +4 + best chance or +9 chance decryptors ship invention would be worthless.
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Vitaki
Rens 911
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Posted - 2007.10.10 20:37:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Vitaki on 10/10/2007 20:40:41
Originally by: Zikka
Which is extra incentive to get out there and get exploring!
Having said that the number and quality of results from exploration could probably do with some work...
I do some really boring stuff in EVE I've ran level 4 missions until I went blue in the face and had over 3b isk purely from mission running, I've mined in giant mining gangs in 0.0 and solo ratted for uncountable hours, and personally crashed the myrmidon and drake markets in Ourslart because I was trying to run full production runs using my BPO's. But none of that comes close to how boring exploration is.
However some of the most fun things I've accomplished in game involved lowsec and 0.0 static complexes. Fighting off pirates and gank gangs coming to steal your loot is a rush, running to the keyholder and trying to pop him as fast as possible because you just saw a pirate gang jump into system is a heart pounding experience that is almost unmached. So of course CCP decided to just eliminate this amazingly fun part of the game.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.10.10 21:19:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kerfira on 10/10/2007 21:19:30
Originally by: Vitaki So of course CCP decided to just eliminate this amazingly fun insanely-profitable and farmable part of the game.
Corrected it for you....
It may have been fun, but I wonder how much of the 'fun' was the billions of ISK one could make from them per day. My guess is that's around 99%, and the PvP part was 1%....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2007.10.10 21:47:00 -
[46]
The redistribution of Invention from farmable complexes to Exploration is a huge step in the right direction. The Exploration aspect of the game still needs improvement, but I am sure we all know that.
At this point we will see a slight increase in T2 prices, till the Exploration is balanced out. Also, as some have suggested the Drone regions do need some love, adding Radar sites to drone regions, would help along on the way of improving Exploration aspects of the game.
This also, as mentioned before by others, gives a greater incentive to the players to start using Exploration in earnest, I know of at least 12 people in game who do exploration on a regular basis in low sec and 0.0, and thats third of the people I know, that is a large number of people to actually use exploration.
Also the situation with the Ancient Technology modules is being addressed as well, that has been quite a pain for a long time, and as such, a great news for many who have those previously "useless" read "too expensive to manufacture" vs T2/Faction items. And hell, I would use them just for the name... well not really, but allot of those items have to be fairly cheap to be used.
Anyway, this is a step in the right direction. I am really glad of it.
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.10 21:48:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Farrellus Cameron on 10/10/2007 21:48:38 You mention agents in the dev blog, are you just referring to getting datacores from RP agents or are you going to have other invention stuff come from agents? I would really like to see missions that lead you to sites where you can get invention items.
Also, can you please make sure there's enough high sec radar sites. I know valuable stuff is supposed to be in low sec and 0.0, but considering the demand for decryptors there needs to be a pretty solid supply of them flowing in. Otherwise prices are going to go out of control.
Also, don't forget that Strip Miners have two invention variants too. ----------------------------------------------------
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Marky Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.10 22:30:00 -
[48]
Invention is still pants..5 out of 5 jobs failed tonight..and i have the skills for the job at 5 and using items. At least bring back the lottery so more bpo's mean more items..means lower prices. I have 12 mil sp's in science and invention just dont seem worth it..i make much more isk making t1 cruisers tbh
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Mordru Maligante
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Posted - 2007.10.10 22:51:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Mordru Maligante on 10/10/2007 22:51:53 Thank you very much CCP for the insight and following clarifications. I wish more threads were as civil and informational as this one. )
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Vitaki
Rens 911
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Posted - 2007.10.10 22:58:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Vitaki on 10/10/2007 23:05:07
Originally by: Jinx Barker
At this point we will see a slight increase in T2 prices, till the Exploration is balanced out. Also, as some have suggested the Drone regions do need some love, adding Radar sites to drone regions, would help along on the way of improving Exploration aspects of the game.
You are greatly oversimplifying this. What will happen is prices will rise on cosmos invention items, margins will become slimmer and people will start to quit doing ship invention, prices will then go up slightly and all the profit will go back to the BPO holders. Smaller ships that would previously be inventable will loose thier profit margins entirely, like sabres, and those may go up in price dramatically, rather then starting to fall to a sub 25m price point.
All of this will lead to many less people doing invention, and thats not good.
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Vitaki
Rens 911
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Posted - 2007.10.10 23:01:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 10/10/2007 21:19:30
Originally by: Vitaki So of course CCP decided to just eliminate this amazingly fun insanely-profitable and farmable part of the game.
Corrected it for you....
It may have been fun, but I wonder how much of the 'fun' was the billions of ISK one could make from them per day. My guess is that's around 99%, and the PvP part was 1%....
Did you ever even bother doing the 3/10 plexes? They were awesome. In wartime one of the first stategic objectives was to begin taking complexes, sometimes they were farmed sure, but many many many times they were a focal point of conflict and removing that was a mistake. Just because a lot of people have an idealized vision that they easily bring in billions per day.
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Gestation
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Posted - 2007.10.10 23:29:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Gestation on 10/10/2007 23:29:19 Invention just has too many variables to be managed effectively (by both players using it and devs attempting to 'fix' it), imho.
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Arzal
Caldari Union Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.11 00:16:00 -
[53]
hmm, I can understand why these hacking sites are being moved, you can earn too much from them, but on the other hand it makes sence as there is such a high demand for these decoders and thats why you can make so much from them, If they are removed a HUGE ammount of invention items will be then be in more demmand, which slows down invention, so drives the prices up again... and theres me thinking invention was meant to decrease the price of T2 ships...
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scorp3
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Posted - 2007.10.11 00:56:00 -
[54]
Have you guys at CCP looked at the price increase of the items that were in the static complexes that you have done away with.....Im sure some people made a lot of iskies from them but by doing away with them you have made the items higher priced and harder for the newer players and some of the older ones to afford these items...And now I see that your going to drive up the prices of invention which will result in higher prices for T2 items...Way to go CCP !!!!
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2007.10.11 01:03:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Arzal ...If they are removed a HUGE ammount of invention items will be then be in more demmand, which slows down invention, so drives the prices up again...
The huge difference being that many many more people can now reap the benefits of those increased prices rather than just a select group that farms the handful of complexes where they spawn. When one person is making all the money and there is no competetion it's a bad thing. When people are fighting to sell their items it's a good thing. Honestly I can't possibly imagine why they made the skills only drop in COSMOS in the first place. It's such an obvious formula for exploitation.
Taxman III: Attack of the Blob
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar FSK23
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Posted - 2007.10.11 01:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Relax, some things we cannot answer straight away :), there are no plans to publish the formula or show the effects.
No need to. After 27 failures in a row the effects are quite visible and the formula easily guessible
But thanks for the update of maybe not needing the science skills to 5 for t2 production. Although it did add a nice flavour of 'serious commitment'. *off to change skill* -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Gridwalker
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Posted - 2007.10.11 02:53:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Gestation Edited by: Gestation on 10/10/2007 23:29:19 Invention just has too many variables to be managed effectively (by both players using it and devs attempting to 'fix' it), imho.
I disagree with this statement. There is only one variable with invention that really matters, and that is the number of runs you can get per tech2 BPC. When you do an invention job with a 1500 run BPC and get a 10 run BPC in return, there is no place to absorb the cost of datacores and failures.
By adjusting this ONE variable, the developers can make invention as profitable or unprofitable as they want. With the current values so low, even an 80% success rate is unprofitable on most items. Quite a few items are unprofitable even if you have 100% success rate. Even if datacore prices are through the floor, many items simply won't be profitable to invent. Ever. This is particularly true when we have to compete with BPO holders and builders too daft to realize their datacores--even if gotten from their agent--hold a value.
Decryptors never even enter into the equation. The odds of what you want being available is usually pretty low, and when they are available, all they do is add another extreme expense that you probably can't absorb because of the low number of runs. If this change to the COSMOS complexes makes decryptors triple in price, it won't matter, because in most cases they are already too expensive to be worthwhile.
-Grid
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murder one
Gallente Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.11 05:29:00 -
[58]
What about inventing faction ships?
Navy Megathrons? Federate Issue Megas?
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships |
Kaid Tallinu
Gallente SHAPE
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Posted - 2007.10.11 07:53:00 -
[59]
To those who think this will increase the price of decryptors, I can't see it will be any worse than the current situation where a minority of players have a monopoly and can effectively charge whatever they like.
For example: about a month ago, War Strategon cost 25mil. The cost today? 47mil. I can't see any reason for that other than blatant profiteering.
Opening this market up to more players can only be a good thing, just as invention broke the stranglehold of the T2 BPO owners.
Discuss
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Iris Lyania
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Posted - 2007.10.11 08:54:00 -
[60]
Damn !!! Don't remove the hacking containers from the plexes. Instead make more decryptors available via exploration or change the drop-rates for them in the plexes. Some month ago everything was fine with them, installation guides for example were at 5 mills on market and there were more then currently used by invention. Then CCP Oveur showed up in the COSMOS plex and thought "Hey, we need to decrease the drop-rates for installation guides !!!". 2 weeks later is happened and now prices are at 20+ mills and the plex is farmed even more, because ppl only see the price on the market and have no idea about the drop-rate change. And even more worse, now everyone is complaining about the costs of invention. Hey that wasn't the problem caused by us, the so called "farmers". CCP caused the dramatic increase in invention costs. And honestly we, "the farmers" worked hard to be able to farm for you. We provided the market with a steady stream of decryptors and skillbooks, and believe me, it was a long way to train the proper skills and find the right fitting for our ships and get the cash for that specific fitting And it's definetly not an easy job. COSMOS-farming is a profession like mission running, exploration, pirating, trading, production and i honestly cant understand why everyone just complains about farming. It's a part of the game, it's a profession. If you cant use a codebreaker, stfu and train hacking. And to CCP: Increase drop-rates, make all decryptors available by exploration, increase the amount of radar sites and well, make radar sites more profitable especially the ones located in high sec. You wont help ppl doing invention by adding decryptors to low sec or 0.0 radar sites, because only a few percentage of them will hit the empire-market, the rest will be used by big alliances and invention will become even more expansive. But hell, dont remove the hacking containers, there is no need to do it.
Best regards.
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