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Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.10.15 09:06:00 - [91] Edited by: Investigador on 15/10/2007 09:06:49 Originally by: Ricdic Quoting myself as it seems you missed it Ricdic, aren't you a bit wary from her answers? I found them quite bland and generalistic, and I can't find the sort of details that an experienced person could have, except for the some of the POS questions. Really, Miss Fiona, have you ever performed invention? Please correct me if I am wrong on my assertions :P Wall of text incoming. "Do you have the skills?" ---> "yes lvl5 gallente and caldri starship should be done befor the 28." What? No backstory about whether you have an invention alt and a manufacturing alt or an alt that does both things? Are you the character that has the skills? You have a trusted corpie that will make the invention? /vague "Do you plan on researching the bpo's before inventing?" ---> "both buying bpc and copying those we have" ...... uh, Miss Fiona? You can research with ME0 and PE0 BPCs, and it's way cheaper. ME100 BPCs are for n00bcakes :) But don't tell anyone, we don't want researchers to earn less isks from poor newbs, right? :D /inexperience "Success rates" --> "if it takes 3 tryes to make a bpc of 5 runs, 53=15, and that price for all 3 tryes is factored into the tottal sell price of the ship." What the....? I'm not sure about how invention works, but I'm almost sure that the example you gave is bad. You are supposed to make copies with less runs and lower ME, since those BS will require lots of materials. What route are you going to follow? Many copies and high ME or viceversa? Also no talk about decryptors, percentage of success, numbers that look like pulled out from her arse because she hasn't made any real serious calculation at all, etc. /inexperience?* /bullting? "have you factored in POS fuel costs" ----> "we have not factored in pos fuel cost, this will the corps own profits cover." :P /sloppy "/ risk of war" --> "if we should get wardecs plans are in place to make it both boring and low profit for anyone that attacks." Ooooh, this one is actually a good answer :D /pass "/ standings requirements" --> "the standing for putting up a large pos will be done with help of a second party, witch will make a corp set up pos, and give controll of the pos over to our corp." hey, and she even made research on this stuff :D /pass with honors "security" ---> "yes there is 100% in the corp members, as they stand to gain a nice profit for there work," Bleh, this security plan sucks. Your corpies can obviously earn much more by simply emptying the POS hangar and running for it. /fail "Will they have access to the POS? Will they have access to the BPO's? The BPC's? The finished product? Will your bpo's be locked down?" --> "theres allso a strict security plan that runs as a guide for the corp." /vague /sloppy " Why should we trust you?" --> "and those hope our good plan and honest ways will prove that we can be trusted." That's not an answer to that question /fail "What notable things have you done in Eve? " ---> "None of us has prior exp of running a Bond" That's not an answer to that question /fail "What makes your business better than any other prospective invention IPO?" --> "the business plan is not better than anyother invention based corp, as it runs with the same guide lines." " If it's not better, then if will simply fail, because other research ventures have all teh stuff on place and amortized. This sort of makes the whole point of the bond quite moot. It will just reach the same profits as already established research corps /faaaaaaaaaaaail (Same question as before) --> "but our investment plan(bonds) are better since we wont have to pay out % each month of capital" This excuse is.... well......... doh....so lame /fail
Elena Lanfear Crafty Productions	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:02:00 - [92] Ehm, one thing that really scares me: "Success rates" --> "if it takes 3 tryes to make a bpc of 5 runs, 5*3=15, and that price for all 3 tryes is factored into the tottal sell price of the ship." I am not that talented in mathematics (god beware), but i have done around 1000 inventions so far and i can tell you that 25 % sucess rate doesnt mean that every 4th attempt will be a hit. Its more like a base line from where hits/failures can vary quiet a bit depending on your luck. I have got everything between 70 and 10 % for modules so far and they have a far greater sucess ration. What do you plan to do if you are unlucky and your first 20 attempts fail? Lets assume it will cost around 200 Millions per invention attempt (a number i got from here, can be that they are a bit off: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=592093), so you are looking at 4 Bill upfront costs before it starts to generate money. And another thing, because i am not familiar with bonds: It is usual that there is no "Max required money" cap? I have checked the first post a few times, but all i have seen was "We want money, 10 Million ISK deposit minimum". So basically, nobody knows how much money you have received so far, because there was'nt an "endpoint" set a the beginning (like shares were you sell out at some point). Hope that was at least somehow clear, english isn't my first language ;-). - Elena
Frogsley Babylon. Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:28:00 - [93] Hello I would like to invest eleventy billion isk in this wonderful sca.. scheme. Please eve-mail me at once, so I have something to laugh about when I get home from work. Thanks ever so!
Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:12:00 - [94] Btw, Miss Fiona, I would like you to take my questions as an opportunity to improve your bussiness by having your posible mistakes pointed out, and not as a personal attack.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:38:00 - [95] Miss Fiona, after reading over your proposal, I'm pleased to announce that I've sent you 2 billion ISK. Actually I didn't really, and never would, but I thought that would be good for a morning jolly.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.15 12:48:00 - [96] Originally by: Investigador Ricdic, aren't you a bit wary from her answers? Course I am. But I feel it is only fair for people to get their word out. Whilst Curzon Dax has said the two (starscream and fiona) are on the same IP, that doesn't make it so. I was in the channel when one of the others (reported to be on the same IP) hongdingaling or whatever was in the poker game and he seemed to have no similarities whatsoever to starscream (however he did seem suss either way). Anyway, it wasn't mentioned during or after the game, but when he complained on the forums it was only 'then' that the public were advised he was using the same IP address as starscream. I am not in any way defending starscream or fiona, but starscream and curzon had a beef with each other. Starscream proceeded to attack curzon publically, and a few others (including fiona) said they thought it was a scam too. However misguided, there is no factual evidence that says both fiona and starscream are the same person. There are coincidences and non-backed up advisories. I would like to see Curzon post a little more evidence to back things up. A screenshot showing this, or the poker logs showing it. Whatever it takes. Anyway, I think his plan hasn't had anywhere near enough thought put into it, needs far more research, and a rewrite by someone who speaks decent English. I wouldn't invest a cent, and that is on these specific merits. Starscream was never proven a scammer, as I don't believe anyone invested in his "ipo" in his bio. If they did, I don't remember seeing any reports by people claiming to have been scammed by him. Anyway, as above, all my questions and queries towards Fiona have been disregarding any links to Starscream. So I am not telling people to invest, but I saw most of you also shoot down Genbukan in his Best Buys INC post on page 4 when he first presented his business plan. He was hardcore attacked for it, and restructured and came back, now look at his latest report and recreation on page 1 and check out the quality of those reports, his daily blog updates etc. I just don't want to be pushing people away based on theories and claims without verifiable backing. Having said that, I probably have another 50 questions I would ask and want answered before being close to satisfied as I feel those I have asked in the previous page had sloppy and incomplete answers as was partially picked up by Investigador. Don't think of my questioning as a form of endorsement, I am just giving the guy a fair chance to state his ideas/plans rather than an instant trash as pretty much everyone else has done. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Oron	Posted - 2007.10.15 13:21:00 - [97] Originally by: Ricdic Don't think of my questioning as a form of endorsement, I am just giving the guy a fair chance to state his ideas/plans rather than an instant trash as pretty much everyone else has done. If Ricdic take a look at Fionas plannes and if he say they are reasonable, I'll consider investing.
Daeva Vios Ardent Adversary Anvil.	Posted - 2007.10.15 13:51:00 - [98] The BPOs need to be researched and copied, the materials need to be gathered, and preparations must be made before patch day if the OP is going to get in when prices are still high. The OP needs to pick those she will trust to help her get this off the ground, and do so without delay. A lot of people were happy to support Genbukan because, after he was mercilessly butchered, he took the offers of advice and security quickly and made an honest effort. The difference here is that Miss Fiona has, to all appearances, not done so. It's great that someone is willing to tolerate all that has gone down and still hold out some measure of belief that it could just be a misunderstanding.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:37:00 - [99] Originally by: Oron Originally by: Ricdic Don't think of my questioning as a form of endorsement, I am just giving the guy a fair chance to state his ideas/plans rather than an instant trash as pretty much everyone else has done. If Ricdic take a look at Fionas plannes and if he say they are reasonable, I'll consider investing. To be honest I don't really want to be involved in this one. I feel that trying to clean this up would put a fake veil on it plus take a ton of work. Matalino has offered so we can see how he goes with it. People have a bad habit of investing in things I touch so I really don't want that association in something I am quite uncomfortable with at this point. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:56:00 - [100] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Oron Originally by: Ricdic Don't think of my questioning as a form of endorsement, I am just giving the guy a fair chance to state his ideas/plans rather than an instant trash as pretty much everyone else has done. If Ricdic take a look at Fionas plannes and if he say they are reasonable, I'll consider investing. To be honest I don't really want to be involved in this one. I feel that trying to clean this up would put a fake veil on it plus take a ton of work. Matalino has offered so we can see how he goes with it. People have a bad habit of investing in things I touch so I really don't want that association in something I am quite uncomfortable with at this point. I figure that even with the success of myown IPO, I don't carry enough clout to have the same effect as Ricdic in creating an impression of endourcement by simply looking at the plan. As I have stated, I am not an expert in invention, so I will continue to be clear that I cannot offer expert advise regarding this offering. All that I wanted to do was give Fiona a fair chance to present her plan. I am still waiting to see what that plan is exactly. From seeing the details of my business plan, Ricdic knows the quality standards that I would place on ensuring that the numbers add up. Because I lack the expertise with invention, I will be unable to verify that all the assumptions are valid, but I can atleast check to make sure that the foundational budgeting is sound. I would expect the same high standards in budgeting that I have set for my IPO from Fiona, before I would recommend her plan for further review by someone with a greater understanding in invention. I will NOT help Fiona fix and defects in her business plan. I will NOT provide a final recommendation to investors. I will point out areas where her plan needs to be refined before further presentation. When/If I think that the plan is presentable, I will post stating that I think someone with a better understanding of investion should give her plan a review. I, like Ricdic, don't know and don't really care if Fiona and Starscream are the same person. That is a side issue, for which we don't have any firm proof. Even if they had the same IP address, it does not prove anything. Based on how Fiona was baited in the other thread, I don't think she has the technecal knowledge to defend the possiblity of their sharing an IP. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.10.15 18:01:00 - [101] Originally by: Daeva Vios The BPOs need to be ~~researched and~~ copied, the materials need to be gathered, and preparations must be made before patch day if the OP is going to get in when prices are still high. BPO research levels have no influence on invention success or the invented bpc's that come out. (At this time, it is speculated that perhaps at some point this may change but... meh speculations.) It's A GIRL!!!!!
Daeva Vios Ardent Adversary Anvil.	Posted - 2007.10.15 20:37:00 - [102] My mistake.
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:35:00 - [103] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Ricdic Thanks for the answers. Now, you keep advising "we" in your responses, in which I understand you are referring to your corporation. Can you have them post here to advise they are also included in the project please. Because saying "we" all the time and only ever having one person speak almost feels like you are trying to promote security as funds are split over multiple people's heads, and yet none have posted. Hope you understand what I am saying. Quoting myself as it seems you missed it They are not allowed to post.
Malin folkungs	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:36:00 - [104] Edited by: Malin folkungs on 17/10/2007 20:38:01 hmf
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:37:00 - [105] Originally by: Miss Fiona Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Ricdic Thanks for the answers. Now, you keep advising "we" in your responses, in which I understand you are referring to your corporation. Can you have them post here to advise they are also included in the project please. Because saying "we" all the time and only ever having one person speak almost feels like you are trying to promote security as funds are split over multiple people's heads, and yet none have posted. Hope you understand what I am saying. Quoting myself as it seems you missed it They are not allowed to post. Thats very counter productive. Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:37:00 - [106] Originally by: Malin folkungs Edited by: Malin folkungs on 17/10/2007 20:36:37 I am a miner in the corp. Oh, you are an alt of miss fiona, yet posting despite the fact that he said that the members cant post? Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:39:00 - [107] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Miss Fiona he has not been online at the same time as me. so i havent been able to talk with him. I have sent you an evemail with my email address. Send me you business plan and supporting documents so that I can review them. Even if you do not see me online, please send the business plan. I will not disclose the specifics to anyone, and I will give you a chance to answer questions and address concerns before I post my review of the plan. No i will not send you any info on hotmail. in game only, or you could read the main post.
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:41:00 - [108] Investigador your quite wrong on alot of those,even tho it looks funny, it dont prove anything, if you think my answers fail, as you say, maybe you would like to talk with me in game.
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:41:00 - [109] Originally by: Daeva Vios The BPOs need to be researched and copied, the materials need to be gathered, and preparations must be made before patch day if the OP is going to get in when prices are still high. The OP needs to pick those she will trust to help her get this off the ground, and do so without delay. A lot of people were happy to support Genbukan because, after he was mercilessly butchered, he took the offers of advice and security quickly and made an honest effort. The difference here is that Miss Fiona has, to all appearances, not done so. It's great that someone is willing to tolerate all that has gone down and still hold out some measure of belief that it could just be a misunderstanding. We know and are working on it.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:42:00 - [110] Originally by: Miss Fiona Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Miss Fiona he has not been online at the same time as me. so i havent been able to talk with him. I have sent you an evemail with my email address. Send me you business plan and supporting documents so that I can review them. Even if you do not see me online, please send the business plan. I will not disclose the specifics to anyone, and I will give you a chance to answer questions and address concerns before I post my review of the plan. No i will not send you any info on hotmail. in game only, or you could read the main post. I really hope no one is foolish enough to invest in you. You've been given every chance to make a case for yourself, but you just look shadier and shadier with each post. <sig> Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig>
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:44:00 - [111] Originally by: Miss Fiona Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Miss Fiona he has not been online at the same time as me. so i havent been able to talk with him. I have sent you an evemail with my email address. Send me you business plan and supporting documents so that I can review them. Even if you do not see me online, please send the business plan. I will not disclose the specifics to anyone, and I will give you a chance to answer questions and address concerns before I post my review of the plan. No i will not send you any info on hotmail. in game only, or you could read the main post. If you think that you can get a properly detailed discription of the business and your financial plan to fit into the 1000 character limit, then by all means, send it to me in-game. I sent you my email address so that you can include more details and make it more presentable, possibly use spreadsheets if that helps. If you are concerned about disclosing your real world identity, then just create a through away hotmail account. You will notice that is what I did. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:45:00 - [112] Originally by: Dr Slurm Originally by: Miss Fiona Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Miss Fiona he has not been online at the same time as me. so i havent been able to talk with him. I have sent you an evemail with my email address. Send me you business plan and supporting documents so that I can review them. Even if you do not see me online, please send the business plan. I will not disclose the specifics to anyone, and I will give you a chance to answer questions and address concerns before I post my review of the plan. No i will not send you any info on hotmail. in game only, or you could read the main post. I really hope no one is foolish enough to invest in you. You've been given every chance to make a case for yourself, but you just look shadier and shadier with each post. No no no, you are all wrong. 1. Post that nobody else from your corp is allowed to post in the thread 2. Then take an alt, write "Im a miner in the corp" 3. A jackass quotes that 4. Then edit the post to say "Hmf" 5. Say that everybody is wrong 6. ???? 7. PROFIT! Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:46:00 - [113] Originally by: Dr Slurm Originally by: Miss Fiona Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Miss Fiona he has not been online at the same time as me. so i havent been able to talk with him. I have sent you an evemail with my email address. Send me you business plan and supporting documents so that I can review them. Even if you do not see me online, please send the business plan. I will not disclose the specifics to anyone, and I will give you a chance to answer questions and address concerns before I post my review of the plan. No i will not send you any info on hotmail. in game only, or you could read the main post. I really hope no one is foolish enough to invest in you. You've been given every chance to make a case for yourself, but you just look shadier and shadier with each post. I Offer anyone that wish to contact me in game, and i will glady share our plans. for as far as they can be disclosed.
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:51:00 - [114] Originally by: Dr Slurm Any sort of business plan that can be expressed in eve-mail isn't even worth reading. All well, not my problem none of your shares will sell. lol how so? it can be presented as well in a game chat as anywhere else.
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:55:00 - [115] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Dr Slurm Any sort of business plan that can be expressed in eve-mail isn't even worth reading. Any sort of business plan that can be explained in a chat window is even less worth reading. Im Starting to think that some of you dont know what you are talking about. you seem to be trolling to boost your own ipo. The Plan dont need to be laid out on power point to work.as long as the ide and planning is good, it will work and turn out a nice profit for the investors.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:56:00 - [116] Edited by: Matalino on 17/10/2007 21:02:12 Originally by: Miss Fiona Originally by: Dr Slurm Any sort of business plan that can be expressed in eve-mail isn't even worth reading. All well, not my problem none of your shares will sell. lol how so? it can be presented as well in a game chat as anywhere else. I am beginning to wonder if your knowledge of business planning is any better than your knowledge of pc things like we saw in the last thread. Originally by: Miss Fiona Im Starting to think that some of you dont know what you are talking about. you seem to be trolling to boost your own ipo. The Plan dont need to be laid out on power point to work.as long as the ide and planning is good, it will work and turn out a nice profit for the investors. No, I am not trolling. I still want to give you an honest chance to redeem yourself. In order to get buy in for an investment of this nature you need to PROVE that you both know what you are doing and have the ability to do it. The details that I sent to Ricdic to verify the unrevieled details of my IPO included spreadsheets laying out several different projections for profits, an explination of the assumptions that I made, details of how it was to be carried out, etc. If you plan to move into invention of T2 Battleships, you will need to prove that you both know how and are able to do it. There is no way that you can explain all of that in a evemail or chat window, with any where near enough detail. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.17 21:02:00 - [117] How so Mat? you dont give anything to support what you say.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.10.17 21:02:00 - [118] First off the only IPO I've released was free. Second I do know what I'm talking about unlike yourself. I've written several real life Business Plans. People want to see the numbers you are using to justify the profit you think you can realize. They want proof you've put more into this then what has been seen so far. You strike me to be about the age of 13 or so. Just a guess. <sig> Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig>
Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.10.17 21:05:00 - [119] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Dr Slurm Originally by: Miss Fiona Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Miss Fiona he has not been online at the same time as me. so i havent been able to talk with him. I have sent you an evemail with my email address. Send me you business plan and supporting documents so that I can review them. Even if you do not see me online, please send the business plan. I will not disclose the specifics to anyone, and I will give you a chance to answer questions and address concerns before I post my review of the plan. No i will not send you any info on hotmail. in game only, or you could read the main post. I really hope no one is foolish enough to invest in you. You've been given every chance to make a case for yourself, but you just look shadier and shadier with each post. No no no, you are all wrong. 1. Post that nobody else from your corp is allowed to post in the thread 2. Then take an alt, write "Im a miner in the corp" 3. A jackass quotes that 4. Then edit the post to say "Hmf" 5. Say that everybody is wrong 6. ???? 7. PROFIT! And then finding that this "miner" has made only posts, one of them being an alt post to trick people to invest on a nyxlottery being hold by a General Starscream's alt. Well, this really makes it for me. This is a scam, and Miss Fiona is is a General Starscream's alt, and this bond is a Ponzi scam, trying to get as much people as posible to invest before tranfering the isk to General Starscream and deleting the char.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.17 21:06:00 - [120] Originally by: Miss Fiona How so Mat? you dont give anything to support what you say. What support do you want? Do you want Ricdic to post saying that he has read over my plan and is happy with the level of detail? Done Do you want people to post here saying that you need to provide more details to gain the trust of potential investors? What do you think that past 4 pages of this thread have been about? ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO

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