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Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:17:00 - [31] Thread seems to be going along nicely, maybe i should make this my crusade and link it in my sig :) LOVE TO THE AF's! Theres a reason why I still have this skill at level 1 and most only train it to IV for Hacs.. ^_^ Love to the Assault Frigate!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:19:00 - [32] Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus Thread seems to be going along nicely, maybe i should make this my crusade and link it in my sig :) LOVE TO THE AF's! Theres a reason why I still have this skill at level 1 and most only train it to IV for Hacs.. ^_^ Yeah I'd just love to get back into my AFs in my hangar that are rusting and actually feel Im bringing something to a gang.
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:21:00 - [33] Some of the ideas listed here won't even invalidate cruisers or intys. Intys will be faster and cruisers will still do more dps think there can be an easily attained middle ground. Love to the Assault Frigate!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:27:00 - [34] Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus Some of the ideas listed here won't even invalidate cruisers or intys. Intys will be faster and cruisers will still do more dps think there can be an easily attained middle ground. Exactly, this is why Im against speed increases on the AFs. The web/dps bonus will be enough to put both the gank and tackle AFs into a role without making other ships obsolete. Agreed.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:35:00 - [35] Edited by: Kuzya Morozov on 15/10/2007 00:35:36 Heh, CCP are introducing new frigs instead of worrying about these, and if the ones that come out are any use they will be primaried most of the time and die pretty quick. Great way to make frigs useful CCP :X training skills... :(
Redora Gallente Universal Exports	Posted - 2007.10.15 03:11:00 - [36] Just as a few thoughts: Don't give the Enyo both an Optimal AND Falloff bonus. I hardly ever fit rails on mine, so when in doubt, drop the optimal bonus. And drop the Ishkur's optimal bonus too, while you're at it. Their T1 frig counterpart (Incursus) gets a 10% falloff per frig level, so keep the falloff on the frig side of things, with the additional DPS bonus on the Assault Ship level. Speaking of which.... Give Enyo another 5% damage per level, like it's elder brother Deimos. :( Redora is a sad panda when she sees Wolf/Jag with two DPS bonuses, but her beloved Enyo with only 1. Lastly, perhaps a drone control range bonus on the Ishkur (re: Ishtar)? The Wolf and Jaguar suffer from some... Schizophrenia when trying to fit them into this 'role bonus'. The racial role bonus they SHOULD get is 37.5% shield boost amount, but the Jag is faster (thus a candidate for the afterburner/mwd bonus), but the wolf only has 2 mids (making shield tank impossible. :X) Perhaps if the base speed/mass of the Jag and wolf were switched.... Then the optimal and falloff bonuses wouldn't be confused (e.g. falloff makes more sense on Jag than Wolf, reverse for the optimal), and the ships might make a bit more sense. :D So, for the ones I can fly, it should look something more like: Enyo: Frigate skill: 5% Damage per level, 10% falloff per level (Like Incursus) Assault Ship skill: 5% damage per level, 7.5% tracking per level (new damage bonus, dropped the optimal bonus, kept the tracking) Role Bonus: 100% afterburner speed bonus, 25% MWD speed bonus Ishkur: Frigate skill: 5% damage per level, 10% falloff per level (Same as above...) Assault Ship skill: 5m3 drone bay per level, 5km drone control range (as drone damage bonus would overtake the Enyo's "gank" role) Role Bonus: 37.5% Armor Repair Amount (Assuming current speed/mass stats stay the same...) Wolf: Frigate skill: 5% damage per level, 7.5% tracking per level Assault Ship skill: 5% damage per level, 10% optimal bonus per level Role Bonus: 100% Afterburner speed boost, 25% MWD Speed boost. Jaguar: Frigate skill: 5% damage per level, 7.5% tracking per level. Assault Ship skill: 5% damage per level, 10% falloff per level. Role Bonus: 37.5% shield boost amount. --- Redora http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=543553
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.15 04:49:00 - [37] ishkur the pocket eos ^_^ Love to the Assault Frigate!
Thonn	Posted - 2007.10.15 05:07:00 - [38] I oppenes this thred expecing a cake. sadface.
Princess Kristie	Posted - 2007.10.15 07:05:00 - [39] Edited by: Princess Kristie on 15/10/2007 07:06:07 Electronic warfare immunity... except warp scrambler/disruptor and NOS/neutraliser...??
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.15 08:35:00 - [40] AF role should be the same as HACs but on a frigate scale. HAC role is solo or fast roaming gang damage dealer, AF role should be the same for frigate gangs. All that is needed to accomplish this is remedy the differences between AFs and HACs. AFs should have the same mass as T1 frigs and AFs should have 4 real bonuses. -

Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.15 08:39:00 - [41] Well, if you want to fix the AFs: -Give them a 30+% mass decrease (or just make their mass inline with their respective T1 hulls) -Make the resists in-built (like HACs) and give them a real fourth bonus, possibly inherit the T1 hull bonus) Originally by: Raxlar Kalimar I am liking the 25% web imunity idea it would be exactly what they need. Well wither that or an additional bonus but the 25% web imunity has my vote. A 50% reduction of statis webifier effect would be awesome. A T2 web making you lose 45% instead of 90% would be just lovely ;)
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:55:00 - [42] Sadly the idea of an ewar/tackle assault frigate to me is undesirable, We already have so many ships in the game that can do ewar/tackle. Basically aren't AF's intended to be tanks &/ ganks? They are the basic concept of war, hit hard or take the hits well! So hence the idea of a gank or tank ship. Now as for a speed boost role to a gank, make it for afterburners, AB's are underused atmo and it would be cool to see a use for them, Now though its slow v's an inty. With just a 100% boost to AB's a ABII with 1x OD II on a wolf is 1495.125m/s Thats not so shabby, If you had more OD II's it gets up there quickly. Its not intended to catch up to an inty, but with the damage bonuses it will give them a scare. For the tank, hell tanking is a basic concept and AF's are the frigate tank kings, but its still not enough, a boost is a good thing. It should go toe to toe with a cruiser and be able to scare a cruiser away. Not from dps but from shear survivability. In the end lets keep the AF's as pure combat vessels, they are fun because of that.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.15 15:49:00 - [43] Edited by: LUKEC on 15/10/2007 15:52:16 So we get more new ships in game. I wonder what 2-3 af will do to hactordictor apart drop few t2 salvaged components. The whole t1 & t2 cruiser/bc classes + dictors made all frigs obsolete. You train them as necessary evil on the path to hac, cs, dictor... and never undock in them. How to fix it? I have no clue, but there are ships you just never see around.
Axle skye	Posted - 2007.10.15 15:53:00 - [44] Retribution Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret cap use, 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level (Same as the Abslolution) Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Energy Turret optimal range 5% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage per level vengance Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to rocket damage, 10% bonus to armor hitpoints (Same as the Damnation) Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to armor resistances 5% bonus to cap recharge rate per level enyo Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage, 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff (same as the Deimos) Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range 7.5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret Tracking Speed per level ishkur Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage, 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level (Same as the Eos) Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range +5 Drone Bay capacity per level wolf Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% Small Projectile Damage bonus, 7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level (Same as the Muninn) Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 5% Small Projectile Turret damage 10% falloff per level jaguar Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% Small Projectile damage bonus, 5% bonus to max velocity per level (Same as the Vagabond) Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% Small Projectile Turret optimal range 5% projectile damage per level. hawk Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Kinetic Damage, 5% bonus to shield resistances per level (Same as the Eagle) Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to missile velocity 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level harpy Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range, 10% bonus to shield Hitpoints per level (Same as the Hookbill) Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret optimal range 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage per level Role Bonus: 20% Damage <-- they are ASSAULT ships. Nothing over the top. Nothing that is new and would require more balancing later. A competent Cruiser pilot should be able to handle them. Makes them all hit harder (some more than others). Makse some of them stronger (some more than others). Just my 2isk on the matter. ************************************************************************ This post was made with entirely recycled electrons
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.15 16:34:00 - [45] Just giving them some new bonuses won't change concept of worthless ship. Still costs more than t1 cruiser and just as much survivability as cruiser have. Maybe if mwds are removed from game these ships will exist again, till then... meh. It's same as with deimos, the new ship looks cool on paper but there's still only 1.5 hacs out there(vaga and nano isthar)
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.15 17:28:00 - [46] Originally by: LUKEC Just giving them some new bonuses won't change concept of worthless ship. Still costs more than t1 cruiser and just as much survivability as cruiser have. Maybe if mwds are removed from game these ships will exist again, till then... meh. It's same as with deimos, the new ship looks cool on paper but there's still only 1.5 hacs out there(vaga and nano isthar) what if they were immune to webs? I can see them being pretty much survivable if maintaining the same stats (bar the bonuses) and giving them web immunity. sure they are slower than your normal frigate, but they can't be webbed to compensate such shortcome. --- planetary interaction idea!
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.15 18:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Grimpak what if they were immune to webs? I can see them being pretty much survivable if maintaining the same stats (bar the bonuses) and giving them web immunity. sure they are slower than your normal frigate, but they can't be webbed to compensate such shortcome. Have my babies grim? Love to the Assault Frigate!
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.15 18:46:00 - [48] Do AFs really need to be even heavier and slower than the already are? They're already horribly vulnerable. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.15 22:25:00 - [49] Edited by: Grimpak on 15/10/2007 22:27:27 Originally by: Malcanis Do AFs really need to be even heavier and slower than the already are? They're already horribly vulnerable. same mass + same agility + immune to webs = fixed Afrig. the reasoning behind this? By making Afrigs immune to webs, they become just a bit more fat and less agile frigates, that dish some good firepower and have a nice tank, for a frigate. this role bonus also makes them the n¦1 light anti-support/fire support ships, since they are nigh unstoppable, by except warp jammers/spheres/bubbles. interceptors still get their role as primary tacklers/anti-tacklers, and Afrigs become something unique. --- planetary interaction idea!
Luke Lor'aul	Posted - 2007.10.15 22:45:00 - [50] Decrease base mineral cost in order to decrease the cost to manufacture them. Give them a role bonus of 100% AB Boost their tank Give an ROF bonus, perhaps a 5% damage decrease or increase Decrease how much a webber effects them Make them dogfighting ships I will fly this ship every day then.

CherniyVolk	Posted - 2007.10.15 22:48:00 - [51] I think the resistances for Assault Ships should be inherent to the ship, and all the current declared resistance bonuses are converted into AfterBurner or other type of bonus. I don't agree with the Tank and Gank philosophy, I don't agree with the Gank and semi-Interceptor role either. The best Assault Frigates I think are either the Wolf or Jaguar and the Ishkur. The Minmatar because they are quite fast, and the Ishkur just because of the versatility and range of a drone boat. For most of the other AFs, they are kinda crippled. The First Thing CCP Needs To Do is to give the Assault Frigates the reduced sig-radii back. Their sig-radius used to be as small or smaller than interceptors. Making them a little more usable. But this was said to be a Bug and they "fixed" it. :(
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.10.15 23:04:00 - [52] The most fun I've ever had in this game was flying around in in a Rifter, orbiting at close range, twisting, turning, and weaving in between enemy(npc) cruisers and battlecruisers, dogfighting frigs by the seat of my pants, knowing that a a few hits of a big gun will vaporize my ship but also knowing that my speed keeps me alive. Sadly, in PvP, the use of webs make such a fighting style impossible. But I wish it were possible. I'm not asking to be able to bring down a BC. But I would love to be able to zoom by his bridge and see the whites of his eyes and the frustration of his gun crews trying to get a bead on me - just like TIE figthers and X-Wings battling each other within inches of star destroyers. That's the kind of EvE combat I would love to see and participate in. And honestly, just like some HAC's can go to to toe with battleships, I'd love to at least have a chance against a T1 cruiser. For the price and the SP involved, I think that's reasonable. Originally by: Marquis Dean As with most threads in Ships & Mods, it ended up with Ryysa yelling at everyone.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.16 02:30:00 - [53] Originally by: CherniyVolk I think the resistances for Assault Ships should be inherent to the ship, and all the current declared resistance bonuses are converted into AfterBurner or other type of bonus. I don't agree with the Tank and Gank philosophy, I don't agree with the Gank and semi-Interceptor role either. The best Assault Frigates I think are either the Wolf or Jaguar and the Ishkur. The Minmatar because they are quite fast, and the Ishkur just because of the versatility and range of a drone boat. For most of the other AFs, they are kinda crippled. The First Thing CCP Needs To Do is to give the Assault Frigates the reduced sig-radii back. Their sig-radius used to be as small or smaller than interceptors. Making them a little more usable. But this was said to be a Bug and they "fixed" it. :( small sig rad, more smaller than today? yes smaller than inty? no. --- planetary interaction idea!
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.16 07:51:00 - [54] Originally by: Luke Lor'aul Decrease base mineral cost in order to decrease the cost to manufacture them. Give them a role bonus of 100% AB Boost their tank Give an ROF bonus, perhaps a 5% damage decrease or increase Decrease how much a webber effects them Make them dogfighting ships I will fly this ship every day then. This man is a Prophet and speaks the truth.
Caithan ArcFade Caldari Greenspring Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.16 07:56:00 - [55] Originally by: Luke Lor'aul Decrease base mineral cost in order to decrease the cost to manufacture them. Give them a role bonus of 100% AB Boost their tank Give an ROF bonus, perhaps a 5% damage decrease or increase Decrease how much a webber effects them Make them dogfighting ships I will fly this ship every day then. /freaking sign -----
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.10.16 08:19:00 - [56] Originally by: VJ Maverick The most fun I've ever had in this game was flying around in in a Rifter, orbiting at close range, twisting, turning, and weaving in between enemy(npc) cruisers and battlecruisers, dogfighting frigs by the seat of my pants, knowing that a a few hits of a big gun will vaporize my ship but also knowing that my speed keeps me alive. Sadly, in PvP, the use of webs make such a fighting style impossible. But I wish it were possible. The Rifter got me to drop Gallente which I started out with and train Minmatar - it was so fun to fly (in PvE even) I just instantly fell in love. ;P At any rate, what you described is how I fly now, in PvP - I pilot a Rifter nearly all the time, had over 100 kills (not sure atm) and half a dozen ransoms in mine, mostly solo. It's a dangerous (and damaging) ship, but the thing I love the most about it is the speed and the agility. With about 6M SP reflecting on my Rifter piloting (basically, most of my SP), it's a lovely and dangerous little ship which I see myself flying for quite a while. I've escaped many ganks simply because it takes virtually no time to align and warp off. Hunting a competent Rifter pilot is really a pain. After that, I jumped in a newly-bought Jaguar (lost one ages ago and haven't bothered to get any to low-sec in the meantime), the "speed" AF. Sure, the base speed is a bit better then the Rifter, the damage is a bit better thanks to another damage bonus, and the sig is just a tad smaller. However, I undock and try to turn, and, suddenly, I get shocked by how cow-like the handling is compared to a plated Rifter. That's the "speed" AF? Then, trying a speed boost module on a (plated) Rifter and a naked Jaguar - the Rifter goes some 1km/s vs the Jaguar's 800ish m/s on afterburners, and the MWD comparison is even worse for the Jaguar. That's the "speed" AF? ha ha ;) Taking over a second more to align makes the Jaguar a much less survivable ship. The Rifter was often able to warp out before it got locked. To achieve the same on a Jaguar, it takes three nanofibers in the lows, and I still get a feeling it's a tad sluggier then the Rifter - a check info confirmed the mass is still worse. In the end, the Jaguar got repackaged and waiting for some sort of fix, because I don't want to fly a ship which costs 20M with fittings only to have a somewhat less* survivable ship then it's 2M with fittings counterpart. Because, well, in the frigate world, speed and agility is survivability. The tank advantage a Jaguar has over a Rifter simply melts in the face of more firepower it'll be taking when fighting larger ships. I'm not willing to pay 10x more for that - I'll sooner T2-fit a Rupture for that money and have just a tad worse speed/agility then a Jaguar, but a much bigger target selection. In the end, I don't care about a role bonus. I just want the mass fixed first, and the fourth bonus would really, really be appreciated. Role bonus would be lovely, but fix the fundamental problems first. *Afterburners on frigates are not useless, flame someone else.
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.16 08:50:00 - [57] coudlnt AF have huge tracking and an effective range of 15km-40km which will be the new range of most buffed inties? made to hit ships going 6+km/s on the other hand this would negate the role of teh t2 and t1 destroyers
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.16 13:30:00 - [58] Ok guys, lets decide on what we really want from the future improved AF's. Because each race has two AF's, I personally would love to see two different ship philosophies. AF 1 High DPS (For small weapons) Above Average Tank (More than a T1 Frigate but less than a T1 Cruiser) Moderate Speed (More than T1 Frigate but less than a T1 Cruiser) Close Range High Tracking Weapons (Capable of tracking when in falloff moderate to high speed interceptors) AF 2: Average DPS (Same as T1 Combat Frigates 'Base Hull?') High Tank (Slightly Stronger Tank than an average T1 Cruisers) Low to Average Speed (Slightly worse than a T1 Frigate 'Base Hull?') Long Range Weapons (Capable of doing a similar job to Destroyers however with a lower alpha strike) Thats how I imagine AF's should be. Defined and clear potential uses. So what do you guys want to see? What do you think would be good, and bear in mind. We have two classes of Ewar frigates already, Black Ops Frig and Interceptor. Plus a T1 Frigate for ewar. We don't really need AF's to become ewar also, better to have them for combat.
Remejiah	Posted - 2007.10.16 17:58:00 - [59] I sort of like the idea, but keep the falloff bonus for the Wolf!
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.10.16 18:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Hawk (tackler) Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: +5% bonus to Missile Kinetic Damage and +10% bonus to missile velocity Assault Ships Skill Bonus: +7.5% bonus to shield boost amount per level +5% Stasis Web range per level ------------------------------------ Why do people insist on making the Hawk weaker than a kestrel? No AF should tackle. They are assault ships. The Hawk and Harpy should be frig versions of the cerb and Eagle. Simple fix. If they need a specific role, give them a reduction in cap use for weapons (and something else for the minny afs and hawk). -------------- Fulfilling 0.0 Ammo needs since 2 days after being made.



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