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Blue Rider Thanos and Killjoy Productions Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:16:00 - [181] One item I find humorous is some people are posting a suggstion of lowering its sig. Funny thing about that is, just over a year ago that was INCREASED by ccp. Sure upset me. Problem is, it's too vulnerable to be used as a heavy tackler, which I personally don't think should be its role. The two, imo, that are even worth skilling for is the Ishtar and Wolf. It is outrun by too many ships of a larger class size because of the broken boost ratio of mwd/ab, i.e. hacs recieve a much higher boost by fitting a mwd than an af in addition to having more slots to fit for speed.
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:25:00 - [182] I know...let's tank 'em up a bit, without changing the bonuses: Turn the resistance bonuses into actual bonuses. So pack those HAC resists with the bonused resists on top of it. Then they'll get their resist pairs up in the mid-90s with no modules at all. There's some tank! Alternatively, give them a small racial boost to base resistances (like what the marauders are getting), and then swap the current resist "bonus" on all 8 of them with +5% shield/armor resists per frigate level. Then everyone benefits equally, and they get a still jolt of survivability. Plus of course, a reasonable mass reduction. Naturally, none of this will happen. CCP doesn't like Assault Ships, it seems. They are taking one of the few decent ones (Ishkur) and clubbing it in the face with bandwidth. Apparently 3/2 Med/Light unbonused drones with no spares was far too OP. I just want my 15ish days of training Assault Ships 5 back.
Lord DeFault Minmatar Satanic Red Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:41:00 - [183] Smelly cap and HP increase screwed things other for the AF. The DPS's bonous would be lovely.... I would Also love to see "Anti Nano" Style ships. Tracking and Range. Wolf Just can't wack 5000 sheilds out with barrage S to even start on a BC's amour tank.... Before being ganked or having to pull out. Can't hit these nano-ganks. AF's will rat in 0.0 if you have the right one for the area. FC's wont let you tackle in one. Or scout... "train for an inty" is what your greeted with lol They need a change. For the Republic
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:21:00 - [184] i went to fit a pair of harpies the other day and it was pretty tough cpuwise, than went to fit a retribution for my alt, and that was even tougher, ended up using some best named stuff and a cpu mod to make it fit. is this a problem fro all af's? Your signature graphic must reflect your ingame persona as per The Forum rules - Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.16 21:28:00 - [185] Would give up an organ to get these looked at.. lets give ships love not nerfs. Love to the Assault Frigate!
Ron Lycan	Posted - 2007.11.21 07:16:00 - [186] Holy Hecks, It just occured to me. But your Proposed Wolf Does alot of damage with all those bonus'es which is more then the Enyo. And Enyo shouldn't have an optimal bonus. Its supposed to be Falloff =p Hope they fix AF's.
NCP S2	Posted - 2007.11.21 07:36:00 - [187] Seems mostly like AF's are just a required stepping stone to HAC's I've flown a Wolf and a Jag, and while they can fit some semi good roles, they could still use some love for the SP/ISK that goes into flying one. They seem to be more of a PVE ship than anything viable in PvP though. I guess they could be decent anti drone boats, but that's a pretty damn limited niche. Of course I'd love a little PvP love, and may or may not have already posted in this earlier, but I can't remember and I'm a bit too lazy to check right now. I honestly can't think of anything that would make a good change without total unbalance, aside from taking the resistance off the bonus list and making it built in, like with HAC's. Maybe a PG bonus on some and CPU bonus on others or something, eh.
Apewall Ventis Secundis R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.21 07:48:00 - [188] Edited by: Apewall on 21/11/2007 07:49:45 First off, I think yes all the Assault Ships deserve a little love, their role is pretty misplaced. They make mediocre tacklers, are easily disabled by a larger ship's nos, and can do a good job at killing drones or small support ships. I do think AF resist bonuses need to be inherit though, and additional bonuses need to be added to those. Stasis Web Range is way too important to just be throwing it on half of the AFs. I still don't care what the Developers think about caldari and +kinetic, but the hawk deserves better than +5% bonus to Missile Kinetic Damage, it should definitely be a RoF bonus. Its dps is far far behind any of the other assault ships even if you are a rocket hawk pilot.
Mortuus Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.21 07:57:00 - [189] Lower mass to only slightly higher than t1 versions, decrease sig and give them a 4th bonus and you have a nasty little boat. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.21 08:04:00 - [190] Originally by: Ron Lycan Holy Hecks, It just occured to me. But your Proposed Wolf Does alot of damage with all those bonus'es which is more then the Enyo. And Enyo shouldn't have an optimal bonus. Its supposed to be Falloff =p Hope they fix AF's. Rail Enyo with optimal bonus is great. Falloff bonus for blasters doesn't buy it anything anyway. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I

Cornette Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.11.21 12:22:00 - [191] Lots of good ideas in this thread, lets hope CCP see it and take notes for the AF's really need a buff. The ideas I like the most: mass/signature reduction real fourth bonus, depending on AF type slight increase of hitpoints role bonus 120% to afterburner About the proposed web-immunity as a role bonus, I feel that would overpower the AF class because people would fit MWD instead and make AF's into mini-vagas. Instead I believe that webifiers need to be overhauled a bit so they work best on a ship running mwd but have less effect on a ship with afterburner. That in turn would strengthen the AF's usability in pvp. /me pets her Ishkur
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.11.21 12:29:00 - [192] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/11/2007 12:29:59 Originally by: Cornette mass/signature reduction real fourth bonus, depending on AF type slight increase of hitpoints role bonus 120% to afterburner This would be bloody awesome In fact, I could even live without the hitpoints increase (although it would be nice) with just the three remaining points - it'd make AFs worth flying. Also, it'd make the faster ABing AFs (Jaguar) going faster then a MWDing cruiser, which is, from a speed viewpoint, just enough.
Apewall Ventis Secundis R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.21 23:40:00 - [193] Edited by: Apewall on 21/11/2007 23:40:53 Originally by: Cornette Lots of good ideas in this thread, lets hope CCP see it and take notesfor the AF's really need a buff. The ideas I like the most: mass/signature reduction real fourth bonus, depending on AF type slight increase of hitpoints role bonus 120% to afterburner /agree The AB bonus would actually make them viable in pvp, I could care less about getting the mass/signature reduction, It is kind of disappointing at where they are though. Originally by: Cornette About the proposed web-immunity as a role bonus, I feel that would overpower the AF class because people would fit MWD instead and make AF's into mini-vagas. /Agree also Originally by: Cornette Instead I believe that webifiers need to be overhauled a bit so they work best on a ship running mwd but have less effect on a ship with afterburner. That in turn would strengthen the AF's usability in pvp. I think this is kinda silly, overhauling webs is not necessary.
Ron Lycan	Posted - 2007.11.26 03:50:00 - [194] Edited by: Ron Lycan on 26/11/2007 03:50:55 Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Ron Lycan Holy Hecks, It just occured to me. But your Proposed Wolf Does alot of damage with all those bonus'es which is more then the Enyo. And Enyo shouldn't have an optimal bonus. Its supposed to be Falloff =p Hope they fix AF's. Rail Enyo with optimal bonus is great. Falloff bonus for blasters doesn't buy it anything anyway. It is still **** (lol) compared to the Minnie AF's which blow it out of the water for damage which gallente are so nice at and decent speed. It should be geared for blasters up close and personal. If you want a rail platform on an Assault frigate, Grab a Harpy....or for lazy people that wont change race. AN ISHKUR. =/ EDIT: Typo
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.26 04:53:00 - [195] Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 26/11/2007 04:55:44 When looking over the assault frigs, one notices that few bear any resemblance to the T1 Frig use to make them and often pull bonuses out of thin air. T1 base used for AF: Rifter: 5% damage and 7.5% tracking Merlin: 5% shield resistance and 10% optimal Punisher: 10% SET cap use and 5% armor resists Incursus: 10% falloff and 5% damage Wolf and Jag: Rifter damage bonus applied, tracking bonus removed. Wolf gets Falloff bonus and second damage bonus Jag has Optimal bonus and second damage bonus Harpy and Hawk: Neither has the 5% shield resistance of the Merlin. Both have an optimal bonus -Hawk has missile velocity. Hawk has what is typically seen on Minmatar ships -shield boost amount. Retribution and Vengeance: Again, 1 turret ship, 1 missile ship like the Harpy/Hawk. Only Vengeance has the punisher armor resist bonus while the Retribution has only the cap redux for small energy turrets. Retribution has cap recharge bonus although it is a "missile spammer" Enyo and Ishkur: Neither has the Falloff bonus of the Incursus, but decided to swap out for an optimal bonus. Reworking the AF's with their T1 origins applied as best as possible and getting rid of the "resist to armor and shields" in favor of HAC level resistances of their race, we get the following: Combat AF and Light AF. Each has a role bonus. Combat AF's gain a 25% ROF bonus. Light AF's gain a -25% signature radius. Combat AF: Role Bonus: +25% ROF WOLF: FRIG Bonus: 5% damage, 7.5% tracking AF Bonus: 5% velocity, 10% falloff HARPY: FRIG Bonus: 5% shield resists, 10% optimal AF Bonus: 10% optimal, 5% damage Retribution: FRIG Bonus: 10% SET cap use, 5% armor resists AF Bonus: 5% damage, 10% optimal range Enyo: FRIG Bonus: 10% falloff, 5% damage AF Bonus: 7.5% tracking, -5% mwd cap use per level Light AF: Role Bonus -25% signature radius JAG: FRIG Bonus: 5% damage and 7.5% tracking AF Bonus: 10% falloff, 7.5% shield boost amount per level HAWK: Use Kestrel Chassis FRIG Bonus: 5% shield resists, 10% missile velocity AF Bonus: 5% missile damage, 10% missile flight time Vengeance: Use Inquisitor Chassis FRIG Bonus: 5% armor resists, 5% rocket damage AF Bonus: 5% rocket flight time, 5% rocket velocity Ishkur: 35m drone bay -Use Imicus Chassis FRIG Bonus: 10% hybrid optimal range, 10% drone Damage/HP AF Bonus: 5% armor repair amount, -5% mwd cap use per level = I tried to convert the T1 ship bonuses as close as possible for ships like the hawk, vengeance, and ishkur whose T1 counterpart isn't a missile flinger or drone monger. In all honesty, the vengeance is more like the inquisitor than punisher, the hawk closer to a kestrel or condor than merlin and Ishkur like the little imicus that could than an incursus. CCP, what would it hurt to buff up the kestrel model for the hawk, inquisitor for vengeance, and imicus for the ishkur? original post THUKKER -Be Paranoid Skeet Skeet L33t
Apewall Ventis Secundis R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.26 06:39:00 - [196] Originally by: Futher Bezluden Combat AF and Light AF. Each has a role bonus. Combat AF's gain a 25% ROF bonus. Light AF's gain a -25% signature radius. You pulled these out of nowhere. Combat AF: Role Bonus: +25% ROF Quote: WOLF: FRIG Bonus: 5% damage, 7.5% tracking AF Bonus: 5% velocity, 10% falloff Velo bonus out of nowhere. Quote: HARPY: FRIG Bonus: 5% shield resists, 10% optimal AF Bonus: 10% optimal, 5% damage Shouldn't be double applying shield resist bonuses, ontop of AF resist bonuses. Quote: Retribution: FRIG Bonus: 10% SET cap use, 5% armor resists AF Bonus: 5% damage, 10% optimal range Same as above Quote: Enyo: FRIG Bonus: 10% falloff, 5% damage AF Bonus: 7.5% tracking, -5% mwd cap use per level No logical reasoning to have a mwd usage bonus either. Light AF: Role Bonus -25% signature radius Quote: JAG: FRIG Bonus: 5% damage and 7.5% tracking AF Bonus: 10% falloff, 7.5% shield boost amount per level You're applying a boost bonus only to keep in-line with other minmatar ships, no reasoning for a t2 rifter to gain such. Quote: HAWK: Use Kestrel Chassis FRIG Bonus: 5% shield resists, 10% missile velocity AF Bonus: 5% missile damage, 10% missile flight time Hull changes aren't going to happen, merlin is missile/hybrid boat and makes since to diverge it as the t2. Same thing about double applying resists, and an unneeded missile flight time bonus. You basicly turned them into really really **ty Cov Ops ships. Quote: Vengeance: Use Inquisitor Chassis FRIG Bonus: 5% armor resists, 5% rocket damage AF Bonus: 5% rocket flight time, 5% rocket velocity Don't change hulls. Double Resists again. No reason to change the Vengeance into a rocket boat. Quote:** Ishkur: 35m drone bay -Use Imicus Chassis FRIG Bonus: 10% falloff, 10% drone Damage/HP AF Bonus: 5% armor repair amount, -5% mwd cap use per level Hull Changes don't happen. No reason for a mwd cap bonus. Basicly, You pulled lots of stuff out of the air also, and they aren't inline with the CURRENT ships at all. Also, TANK/GANK makes more sense then Combat/Light ships
Willy Joe	Posted - 2007.11.26 06:42:00 - [197] Edited by: Willy Joe on 26/11/2007 06:42:39 Originally by: Futher Bezluden Retribution and Vengeance: Again, 1 turret ship, 1 missile ship like the Harpy/Hawk. Only Vengeance has the punisher armor resist bonus while the Retribution has only the cap redux for small energy turrets. Retribution has cap recharge bonus although it is a "missile spammer" You mixed them up. The Vengeance is the khanid ship with missiles , retribution is the punisher with only 1 medslot.
Yukisa	Posted - 2007.11.26 06:54:00 - [198] AF needs something radical and unique. 5% web range is not enough, that's barely 12.5km on web. Plus this role is for the hyena in trinity. Web immunity is perfect for ASSAULT ships. They are already slow to begin with, so speed is not their defense. They are very vulnerable to other ships that can web them in place. Inties have fast long range orbit to avoid pretty much 100% of incoming fire. AF should be able to hug a tight orbit on bigger ships to avoid most of the turret fire, while having a decent tank to help survive 5 drones or missile spam. Will it over power them? I do not think so as they still will be vulnerable to energy neuts & especially faster ships that can dictate range and fire from outside web range. What they will be good at is anti-big ships, such as BC and BSes, which as one have imagined.. a pack of wolves taking down a stronger prey point blank range. Anyhow, it needs unique role bonuses.. not the same stuff other ships can already do. I.e. extra dps (why? a gank thorax/rupture is better for less isk), or a tiny increase in web range.. won't matter, and will interfere with other ship roles.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.11.26 08:56:00 - [199] Originally by: Yukisa Web immunity is perfect for ASSAULT ships. They are already slow to begin with, so speed is not their defense. They are very vulnerable to other ships that can web them in place. Inties have fast long range orbit to avoid pretty much 100% of incoming fire. AF should be able to hug a tight orbit on bigger ships to avoid most of the turret fire, while having a decent tank to help survive 5 drones or missile spam. Well, I agree. They'd be extremely nice pirate ships with web immunity, I'll give you that. Although, I could live with a 50% bonus to afterburner boost, as well, combined with mass brought in line to be the same (or just a bit heavier then) the T1 frig variants (which is what I do miss the most on the little buggers). In any case, they do need a real fourth bonus.
Flurren	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:31:00 - [200] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Yukisa Web immunity is perfect for ASSAULT ships. They are already slow to begin with, so speed is not their defense. They are very vulnerable to other ships that can web them in place. Inties have fast long range orbit to avoid pretty much 100% of incoming fire. AF should be able to hug a tight orbit on bigger ships to avoid most of the turret fire, while having a decent tank to help survive 5 drones or missile spam. Well, I agree. They'd be extremely nice pirate ships with web immunity, I'll give you that. Although, I could live with a 50% bonus to afterburner boost, as well, combined with mass brought in line to be the same (or just a bit heavier then) the T1 frig variants (which is what I do miss the most on the little buggers). In any case, they do need a real fourth bonus. I fully agree with 50% web resistance and 50% increased afterburner effect. It would make the ships something unique and would sort of make sense with their current ridiculously high mass and low speed - these would be the effects of the sturdier propulsion technology they incorporate. Also to fit in with their role which seems to me to be the highest frigate sized dps i think all of them should have either 4 or 5 main weapon system hard points. Currently i think the difference is just too big between the ones with 3 turrets/missle hardpoints and the ones with 4 (ones with 3 have completely underpar dps for their cost apart from the ishkur which has drones to balance this out). The extra tank or utility from the low slots isnt enough to balance out the 33% less dps of losing a turret imo since frigate ships tend to rely far more on dps than tank to do their job and most of them have trouble fitting the multitude of slots they have anyway.

Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.11.26 11:55:00 - [201] Originally by: Flurren Also to fit in with their role which seems to me to be the highest frigate sized dps i think all of them should have either 4 or 5 main weapon system hard points. Currently i think the difference is just too big between the ones with 3 turrets/missle hardpoints and the ones with 4 (ones with 3 have completely underpar dps for their cost apart from the ishkur which has drones to balance this out). The extra tank or utility from the low slots isnt enough to balance out the 33% less dps of losing a turret imo since frigate ships tend to rely far more on dps than tank to do their job and most of them have trouble fitting the multitude of slots they have anyway. That, too. However, the thing which irks me is that it's virtually impossible to really get max damage (or damage+tank, or just about everything) out of the 4-highslot AFs, because they (Enyo, Wolf) have terrible CPU. The three (main weapon) highslot AFs (Jaguar, Ishkur makes it up with the drones) have way better fitability, with decent CPU/PG, but in the end, you only do 25% more base damage with AF V or 20% more with AF IV over the T1 hull, which is not very impressive. The two four highslot AFs are gimped by two midslots, though, making them not so hot for actual solo (or really small gang, where every midslot counts) piloting. With a 3/3 layout and 10-15 more CPU, I'm betting these ships would probably be better then 3-gun counterparts. I hear there's a Amarr AF with one midslot, but I've never seen it, and I doubt it's only a legend.
Flurren	Posted - 2007.11.26 15:49:00 - [202] I admit i can only fly minnie AFs right now because of that troublesome racial frigate V requirement but this is how i see them:- Wolf - Lots of dps (for a frigate anyway) with 4 150mm II's and 2 gyros but no web so not much control over a fight, low cpu so you're probably stuck filling one low with a speed mod which isnt too useful on its own and crap effective hp if you get hit with kinetic or explosive damage. Jaguar - Poor dps with only 3 autocannons. Decent effective hp with even resists but still unable to fit a decent sustainable tank because at the end of the day its still a frigate. Still has cpu problems because of the huge amount of utility slots it has (low and meds). If you try to arty fit either ship you run into fairly nasty fitting problems in my experience (however i havent trained AWU up yet). If your target is fitting an MWD and a web then you're basically resigned to chasing him since lets be honest these things arent fast. Therefore if hes in anything higher than a frigate and has a clue about fitting he'll probably beat you simply based on tank + gank vs tank + gank. This illustrates the basic problem with AFs in general which is that they move pretty much like a cruiser and have frigate-like survivability and dps (if slightly buffed up).
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.02 08:05:00 - [203] Wonder if this has been bantied about, but why not give them a MWD bonus like the thorax has? Love to the Assault Frigate!
Torco Infinite Style Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.02 08:47:00 - [204] how about one of em gets a Web Range increase (minihuginn), the other one web immunity.. TORCO Infinite Style Incorporated [INSIN]
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.02 09:27:00 - [205] mini huggin already coming in next patch isnt it? with the new e-attack frigs. Love to the Assault Frigate!
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:24:00 - [206] Wonder if this thread will get longer than an amarr whine. CCP gave love to the crappy other interceptors so i KNOW its possible to play with these some. Love to the Assault Frigate!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.04 19:27:00 - [207] Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus Wonder if this thread will get longer than an amarr whine. CCP gave love to the crappy other interceptors so i KNOW its possible to play with these some. I hope it can get longer then the amarr whine threads since I as an amarr started the thread and we'd like to show that we dont only whine but also say intresting things :-p Well alot has changed since i started the thread. Yes I kinda agree with above, 12.5km web range is kinda meh. The web immunity bonus and some sort of AB boost would be much better.
Prevelance Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:07:00 - [208] This is a good thread, i hadnt really thought about it, but AF's seem to be less used all the time, they just have alot of quirks, I have seen the enyo perform very well though. Crazy damage for a frig. And harpy is handy for sniping stuff. But overall I think the word "ASSALT" needs some thought. An assalt ship should be a scary thing, it should do alot of damage and have one heck of a tank. Thats not so much the case, espacially if webbed. Yea there great at killing frigs, but seriously, who flys T1 frigs except goons in 50 man packs. I think the close range tank AF's need a tanking bonus for sure, I think they should be downright hard as nails. Take the wolf for example, armor tank that thing and your left just trying to plus 2 holes the whole time, and not very well. They really dont even need an extra damage bonus as much as the tank. I think would would work well, would be T2 resists built in to the ship, then a resist bonus per level to all resists, or even a bonus just to the 2 'Other' resists would be fine. And Afterburners need some love too, they dont get used much. I think somthing like: wolf/ enyo/ close range type need more grid, more resists, and one more slot for tanking, keep same damage. Long range platforms could maby have more damage or tracking ect, and moderate tanks, but dishing out pain from afar. All in all, i think what they need varies on class. The enyo doesnt need more damage, the jag doesnt need more speed ect, they do however need grid to be able to maximise there roles. The wolf definetly needs some tanking love, what with sheild bonus resists on an armor tank, it's like fitting a armor tanking muninn, not the best suite for it. I'm done... I dont care what these ships get, as long as they get some love.
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.10 02:08:00 - [209] The entire ship class just plain needs somthing. Love to the Assault Frigate!
Kantos Dal'mak	Posted - 2007.12.10 05:03:00 - [210] bump for love of AF



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