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Where's the skill in PVP?

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Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.21 14:37:00 - [91] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Industrial Witch 1 - Orbit Target 2 - Switch modules on 3 - AFK a bit 4 - Better ship wins You forgot 0 : pick your fights -1 : be at the right place at the right time -2 : bring friends -3 : know how to fit your ship -4 : get intel -5 : buy fitings -6 : train skills -7 : have brain qft ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.21 14:41:00 - [92] Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/10/2007 14:43:44 Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2007 14:26:13 Originally by: MotherMoon did you watch the allaince tournments? both teams have equal skills and ship points. there is a lot of skill and you never know who is going to win before a fight. due to skill bob got 3 bil isk worth of ship destroyed by 30 mil worth of ships. explain that one. Small gang battles do indeed require skill - but the battle you mentioned was won before it started on papaer. The selection of ships won it. After that it was a case of delpoy drones - mwd - orbit - shoot. I suspect they had a pre aranged primary / secondary/ tertiary target already worked out. Did this require any particular skill on behalf of the pilots? Probably 40 prearanged clicks of a mouse per pilot. SKUNK but eve is an rts it's the same as two small forces meeting in starcraft. (HELL any RTS) all of the skill was in choices where to place the resources (in eve's case, the 100 ship points and fittings) when your force in starcraft meets the other force, and both group perform the perfect way they were set up (in starcraft using cloaked units or stats missiles and the like, in eve ECM and damps) one side was going to allready win based math. Then there was no skill by the ops argument because the fight was already decided. which the op is right, it was already decided. but that doesn't mean there wasn't any skill, eve just has an RTS way of dealing with it. think about it, blobing is effective in a RTS. right down to having your RTS units focus fire will win you the fight in a equal match. so I summerise, EvE has skills, just like playing an RTS has skill. and not everyone likes that kind of combat, well to bad, like in an RTS and like in real life, the guy with the better set up fleet before hand will win. hell how is is different form any other online mmorpg? your better in level you win. in wow's new you have to be maxed out arena 3 on 3 thing, the match is already decided. and even then, the choices a FC makes and the loyalty and organisation the fleet has, knowing who and when to shot at, is a skill in it's own right. in starcraft your one guy, and they do they you say. in EvE everyone has to know their **** or it all falls apart. at least reply to this am I making my point at least clear? you don't have to agree. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
venivenerivanmoosi	Posted - 2007.10.21 15:07:00 - [93] As a newbie (4 days!) I gotta say that I find PvP to be pretty boring and much as the OP describes it. The moment I drift into Lowsec looking for some kills that'll get me a decent bounty (what? killing 10k frigates gets boring) and the moment I hit a belt I'm webbed, scrambled and a Myrmidion is sat there blasting me (and not content with that, decides to pod me as well). Now I know that individual is just one of those guys that revels in being an ******* (red flashing...) and I shoulda warped out instantly but I wasn't quick enough. I'll chalk it up to experience and next time I'll be there with friends and a better ship than the Catalyst I was running and he'll take a kicking before I go down but it's an intensely frustrating experience to be THAT outclassed. Which is why this kind of post happens every week.
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.21 15:42:00 - [94] Originally by: venivenerivanmoosi As a newbie (4 days!) I gotta say that I find PvP to be pretty boring and much as the OP describes it. The moment I drift into Lowsec looking for some kills that'll get me a decent bounty (what? killing 10k frigates gets boring) and the moment I hit a belt I'm webbed, scrambled and a Myrmidion is sat there blasting me (and not content with that, decides to pod me as well). Now I know that individual is just one of those guys that revels in being an ***** (red flashing...) and I shoulda warped out instantly but I wasn't quick enough. I'll chalk it up to experience and next time I'll be there with friends and a better ship than the Catalyst I was running and he'll take a kicking before I go down but it's an intensely frustrating experience to be THAT outclassed. Which is why this kind of post happens every week. you're on your way to becoming a good pvper mate- you have learnt from your encounter- keep at it. I remember thinking of simular thoughts and having simular frustrations when I first started out pvping. I remember feeling completely gipped when I realised that eve wasnt a flight sim, that older=better char and that quite frankly noobs couldnt do or win or gain anything. It took leaving eve once, months of wasted mining sp and being taken under the wing of a more experienced and knowledged player before I realised just how wrong I was. Im stuck for a response to all the experienced players who are shouting down the OP and other newbie players who are agreeing with him. On the one hand you should be ashamed of yourselves- you were all noobs once too, you should be encouraging newer players to pvp. On the other hand the OP doesnt seem cut out for eve at all. He is clearly completely ignorant of this aspect of eve and doesnt appear to want to learn. Eve is great because its so harsh, and I suppose the community adds to the harshness on the forums. not saying everyone is like that, hell I think this community has some of the best and the worst online gaming has to offer. My advice to the OP and anyone else starting out in pvp is to try to get into an alliance that will show you the ropes a bit before making the decision that eve pvp is simply about mods and SP. Its not, it really isnt- it does give you an advantage but thats all, it doesnt determine the winner from the outset. Try Eve University or Ivy League for the basics, perhaps a pie corp to get your feet wet in small gang pvp tactics. If all else fails join goonswarm. Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon Ghost**You do, but this is compensated for by lag
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.21 15:49:00 - [95] quality thread! to the op: ask the same question in your corp/alliance. you have some skilled pvpers right in there to teach you how its done.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:16:00 - [96] Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2007 16:20:04 Originally by: MotherMoon but eve is an rts all of the skill was in choices where to place the resources (in eve's case, the 100 ship points and fittings) think about it, blobing is effective in a RTS. right down to having your RTS units focus fire will win you the fight in a equal match. so I summerise, EvE has skills, just like playing an RTS has skill. 1the guy with the better set up fleet before hand will win. 2hell how is is different form any other online mmorpg? your better in level you win. 3and even then, the choices a FC makes and the loyalty and organisation the fleet has, knowing who and when to shot at, is a skill in it's own right.in starcraft your one guy, and they do they you say. in EvE everyone has to know their **** or it all falls apart. So in this post you 1 Agree totally with the OP that that there is no 'pvp skill' apart from settgin the ship up in the correct manner. 2 Agree totally with the OP that the 'maxed out level' character wins against the lower skill pointed character. 3 Comparing EVE to a RTS and placing all you emphasis on the FC's choices and commands. Out of your 40 man gang - 1 person is telling the other 39 what to do (warp here - align here - shoot him first then him then him jam him). The rest of the gang are clicking the mouse at the commanded target with no though of their own except perhaps trying to run away when in structure. This requires very little skill on behalf of the other 39 people - except a familiarity with the games interface. What is useful to the fleet commander is the amount of time they have spent training gunnery, shield, ecm skills. This is purely down to how long you have paid CCP to up your skillpoints. Fleets are effectively just expensive drones for the fleet commander apart from occasional flashes of brilliance where someone may risk being told to shut up on teamspeak and suggest a different course of action. SKUNK EDIT:To aviod sounding defeatest - To newer players who are despairing of ever being any use in PVP you CAN specialise your skills and become the equal of a much older player however. Choose a ship you want to fly. And pump everything into improving the skills that particular ship will need. Dont cross train races/types/guns/industry/trade/science/etc.
Riebart Norith Gallente Interstellar Business Federation Tartarus Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:21:00 - [97] Edited by: Riebart Norith on 21/10/2007 16:22:13 You have aptly described the basic tactics for a not-so-good tackler. However, here's a scenario where player skills and our (fantastic) gang leader made the difference. Gang I was in: Mega + Domi + Scorp + Rupture + Stiletto + Drake Enemy Gang: Hyperion + Tempest + Drake + Myrmidon + merlin + Celestis + Myrmidon We're outnumbered 7-6. Do we bug out? Heck no! We set up our gang with the Domi and I (Mega) both having a large remote rep, just in case. Know what? It paid off! Also, (And I subscribe to the same philosophy) you don't primary a Megathron when there's a rupture right there. That Rupture is providing 1 point of scramble, a web, and drone killing power for our gang. Kill it, and we're gonna lose a valuable asset, even though it is by far the least expensive ship in the gang. Instead, the primaried me, and I was able to tank their entire gang (With the Domi's help of course). We on the other hand worked our way up. Get the Tempest to jam the Hyp and Tempest. Pop the Myr first (Ouch! Drones!), Then the Drake, Then the Celestis (Since it started damping our Scorp). Then the Tempest, and last the Hyp. Take out the targets in the order in which they'll go down. Don't focus on the Hyp while taking the entire gang's DPS still. That's stupid. That gang boiled down to individual player skill. SP played a part but the biggest factor was everyone knowing what to do, when to do it, and how to get it done. I got right up in the Hyp/Tempest's faces to tank it all, while the Domi was out at about 12km orbiting at his optimal range. Scorp was out at about 90km ECM-Sniping, our Drake was at about 20km, helping us keep a point on them, and the Rupture was chasing after drones, and their Celestis outside the main fray. They very wel could have beaten us, if they had done some things differently. That is a prime example of skill in PvP. Edit: They were largely older characters too. Our Rupture pilot is about 6 months old. Their youngest was a year old. ---------- [ 2006.10.09 03:03:14 ] (combat) The Forum Whiner strikes My Patience perfectly, wrecking for A Spite Filled Post of Doom.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:38:00 - [98] Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/10/2007 16:41:00 Originally by: Riebart Norith Edited by: Riebart Norith on 21/10/2007 16:22:13 You have aptly described the basic tactics for a not-so-good tackler. However, here's a scenario where player skills and our (fantastic) gang leader made the difference. Gang I was in: Mega + Domi + Scorp + Rupture + Stiletto + Drake Enemy Gang: Hyperion + Tempest + Drake + Myrmidon + merlin + Celestis + Myrmidon We're outnumbered 7-6. Do we bug out? Heck no! We set up our gang with the Domi and I (Mega) both having a large remote rep, just in case. Know what? It paid off! Also, (And I subscribe to the same philosophy) you don't primary a Megathron when there's a rupture right there. That Rupture is providing 1 point of scramble, a web, and drone killing power for our gang. Kill it, and we're gonna lose a valuable asset, even though it is by far the least expensive ship in the gang. Instead, the primaried me, and I was able to tank their entire gang (With the Domi's help of course). We on the other hand worked our way up. Get the Tempest to jam the Hyp and Tempest. Pop the Myr first (Ouch! Drones!), Then the Drake, Then the Celestis (Since it started damping our Scorp). Then the Tempest, and last the Hyp. Take out the targets in the order in which they'll go down. Don't focus on the Hyp while taking the entire gang's DPS still. That's stupid. That gang boiled down to individual player skill. SP played a part but the biggest factor was everyone knowing what to do, when to do it, and how to get it done. I got right up in the Hyp/Tempest's faces to tank it all, while the Domi was out at about 12km orbiting at his optimal range. Scorp was out at about 90km ECM-Sniping, our Drake was at about 20km, helping us keep a point on them, and the Rupture was chasing after drones, and their Celestis outside the main fray. They very wel could have beaten us, if they had done some things differently. That is a prime example of skill in PvP. Edit: They were largely older characters too. Our Rupture pilot is about 6 months old. Their youngest was a year old. As I have said before - small gang fights (such as yours described) can require individual skill. HOWEVER: The battle you described though hung on pretty much one thing: The order to kill a gang of ships. They were told wrong - you were told right. Also you had an extra Battle ship and a scoprion at that. You had the better ships so you won. Their 'extra ship' was a merlin There was no 'skill' like you would get at darts, or football, or pool. Or even in a team based first person shooter, or RTS. You followed a set of instructions and probably clicked your mouse about 30 times. SKUNK
Feilamya Minmatar Against all Rules SOUL CARTEL	Posted - 2007.10.21 16:38:00 - [99] The thread should be renamed to "why 1vs1 is boring". The content would still be a load of bull**, but at least the load of bull** would be properly labeled.
Rick Thwaites Naval Protection Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.10.25 20:08:00 - [100] If I tried that in my Myrm, I would be effed. Two cap boosters, don't want to waste a booster... Dual reps, don't want to eat cap... Range changes, ammo changes, drones need to change... Active hardeners can come on and off, DCU not always needed. Don't get me started with the NOS/Neuts micromanaging with the cap boosters. My fingers move faster of the alt/ctrl/f-keys than I can type... --

Haradgrim Caldari The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.10.25 20:21:00 - [101] It seems that somehow the topic de jeur has become Insurance. Firstly: Without meaningful loss; There cannot be meaningful gain. However, there is such a thing as Crippling loss, insurance protects against this well in its current form (am I the only one that thinks insruance is fine as it is?) To the OP: Try flying a inty or a jamming ship (damps or ECM), any amarr laser boat or a Minmatar speed tanking boat and tell me that there is still any truth to your comments? I personally don't believe you can afk kill anything but undefended POS's. However this may explain why the OP needs a larger insurance payout given what they believe correct PVP tactics are. Your signature exceeds the byte me limit allowed on the forums-Darth Patches Oh Noes!
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.25 21:10:00 - [102] Originally by: Industrial Witch Okay I've heard a few people say that PVP is all about the 'skill' and not about the ship/character, however it looks to me that pretty much all combat is like this: 1 - Orbit Target 2 - Switch modules on 3 - AFK a bit 4 - Better ship wins No where's the skill in any of that? Unless of course when people refer to skill they mean the skill of setting up the better ship? Because that 'skill' is pretty limited frankly - it's far more to do with who has the most ISK and better trained (aka older) character. So if anyone out there has a specific example of genuine skill winning a combat I'd like to see it please, because I don't believe it makes a a jot of difference. It seems to me, even after only a little while playing EVE that this is a major problem that causes all sorts of other things. 'Better ship always wins' means that newer players have to buy ISK to get the better ship and stand a chance against the older players 'Worst death penalty in any MMO' means that all players have to buy ISK to deal with the constant attrition Players buying ISK means that macro farmers are rife Macro farmers everywhere means that prices go up High prices means that players buy more ISK and bingo! you have a spiralling ecomony My suggestions: Make insurance replace your entire ship plus modules plus cargo at only a 10-20% cost payable when they are replaced Make pod killing a CONCORD response crime in high and lowsec space regardless of war declarations Remove auto repeat ability from modules to make players actually have to press the keys occasionally Wow. Does your alliance know that you don't know how to play Eve?
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.10.25 21:17:00 - [103] The skill in PVP is knowing when not to. Ie, 99% of the time for those wondering.
Sorum Daemoth Insidious Existence Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.25 21:23:00 - [104] Originally by: Kvaell lawl 1 - Orbit Target 2 - Switch modules on 3 - AFK a bit 4 - Better ship wins Try to visit 0.0 and use that tactic. Good luck i think your corp is one of the worst examples of 0.0 out there. i used to go gank you guys and oxide on the weekends and obriting and switching mods on is pretty much all it took for the most part until you guys got like 30 people against our 5, then we had to use tactics, and we would still win......... *You just got WTF EXIT ganked!*
Mark Foley Roid Vandals Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.25 21:35:00 - [105] Originally by: Industrial Witch 1 - Orbit Target 2 - Switch modules on 3 - AFK a bit 4 - Better ship wins So the entire coalition vs alliance war for control of 0.0 space is boiled down to people afk, orbiting each other ... O MY GOD. Have you even fired a turrent or missile in this game?!? EVER?! Originally by: Industrial Witch My suggestions: Make insurance replace your entire ship plus modules plus cargo at only a 10-20% cost payable when they are replaced Make pod killing a CONCORD response crime in high and lowsec space regardless of war declarations Remove auto repeat ability from modules to make players actually have to press the keys occasionally 1. That can easily be exploited for infinate amounts of money 2. It is. 3. Fleet battles are laggy enough tyvm without trying to micro-manage all my other mods. Flame off -Mark Foley-
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.26 01:26:00 - [106] Sounds like the OP hasn't had too much real PvP experience. Getting ganked? --- Join BH-DL
Dotard Minmatar Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:40:00 - [107] Edited by: Dotard on 26/10/2007 18:41:23 To the OP and those agreeing with him. Check out THIS THREAD and you will see age/SP/bigger mods don't always win the battles. --------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.10.26 23:00:00 - [108] Originally by: Empire marketslave Edited by: Empire marketslave on 20/10/2007 10:28:46 LOL!! where to begin 1. fist of all not all ships can have an idenfinate tank 2. there are tatical mods like tracking disruptors,sensor damps, nos, nuet, ecm, webbers that could mean the difference between winning and losing 3. what if your range is 10km and his is 2km you will need to fight to keep that range. 4. some ships require micro management like a vagabond, interceptor that require you to pay attention to the fight 5. fighting rats is not the same as people 6. fitting bigger guns leaves less room for a tank which might mean tanking or blowing up. vice versa for him 7. how much does something cost. i can sell a rifter to a corp mate in 0.0 for cost or for 1mil due to demand while it is 250k or so in empire what do you get? 8. ever used a gun that needs to be reloaded? you have to turn them back on after reload 9. whats better. a poorly fit battleship can loose to a cruiser or unique setup llike the nanopoon made it impossible to defeat them using prevous methods 10. what if that ships isn't fit the standard way, you will need to find a differnet way to defeat it. 11. what about changing damage types on the fly if you cant do suffecient dammage to break the tank 12. for skills you need to specialize in a weapon . each one has its own properties 13 what if he calls for help what do you do then[/*][/list=1] i could go on but i dont want to suddenly i feel all said about saying you mindless idiots replaying like this :S and all the "noob!" replies just shows the idiocy that have taken over the eve forums these last two years.... all your mentioning here is primary ship SETUP!! which he already mentioned was not what he was looking for.. well to answer the OP. the primary "skills" is to control the ammo type and orbit range, to macro control the cap boosters in the container in your ship cargo (if used at all). to turn on the right module considering the situation and knowing the effect different modules can have on and from a ship. mostly the "skilled" pilots is the once who knows how the mechanic works down to the very last little 0010, and thereby moves accordingly. if your searching for "real" life skills where it is primary your eyes and reaction that comes in place, games like CS etc. then eve is definitely not the right choice since there is no such thing in this game... and yes the community have become utterly idiotic and childish the last couple of years, sadly but true.. unfortunately idiocy is not a crime, neither is the lack of respect for others.
shupaco yaloo	Posted - 2007.10.27 11:24:00 - [109] Edited by: shupaco yaloo on 27/10/2007 11:24:42 Originally by: Dotard Edited by: Dotard on 26/10/2007 18:41:23 To the OP and those agreeing with him. Check out THIS THREAD and you will see age/SP/bigger mods don't always win the battles. the newbs will whine especially the character buying newbs with 50million sp and no idea how to play the game
Jongo Fett Caldari An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.10.27 11:59:00 - [110] epic fail for the OP lol

Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.27 12:13:00 - [111] Trolling, and apparently effectively ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.27 12:25:00 - [112] Edited by: welsh wizard on 27/10/2007 12:32:38 Tactically & strategically this game takes alot of know how. Twitch gameplay ability isn't a requirement as such. It certainly helps if you pilot quicker ships but a quick brain is more useful than a quick wrist. The real skill in this game isn't in winning fights 1v1 with your uber pimped Vindicator, the real skill is in leading a group of people into apparently hopeless situations and coming out with some kind of result. The real skill is in maintaining a cool head and making use of every resource at your disposal. The real skill is in coordinating logistical operations and a fleet at the same time. The real skill is in knowing the game inside out, using your initiative to gain the upper hand and pre-empt all your opponents moves. The real skill is in creating a close & friendly community with your friends and allies. Finally and perhaps most importantly the real skill is in experience and hours put into this game. Productively, a complete waste of time. Still aslong as you enjoy it. If you're looking for actual world beating ability it lies with the outspoken FC's who toil day in day out to improve the gaming experience for all their corp & alliance comrades. If you want twitch gaming ability then Eve isn't the game for you. I was part of the old UK CS community and played at the top for a number of years. I probably could have made money out of it but I was nothing compared to some of the players. They're the sort of people you're referring to in this post. Eve doesn't house that sort of gameplay. [Balance] The Caldari problem.
Khrillian Minmatar Khaos Heavy Industries Order of Khaos	Posted - 2007.10.27 20:25:00 - [113] The OP has a grain of truth to it in that EVE pvp involves very little micro. Except for overheating, timing isn't all that important once you have all of your modules active.
Caenus	Posted - 2007.10.29 05:10:00 - [114] Edited by: Caenus on 29/10/2007 05:10:47 anything you do is skill. some people could say making a table leg is just putting the tool at a spot and letting it spin. or chiseling until you dont want to chisel anymore, then sanding it, etc etc. go make a table leg. my point is that everything takes "skills", because all skill is is a learned understanding of how to do something and where and when, and the more you know, the faster you can act, and the better the job ends. hmm, sounds like tactical fighting decisions dont they? Originally by: Khrillian The OP has a grain of truth to it in that EVE pvp involves very little micro. Except for overheating, timing isn't all that important once you have all of your modules active. every1 lol at the troll.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:02:00 - [115] Notice some things. Learning a skill changes something by maybe 5%. Fitting a mod changes something by maybe 10%. Some ship bonus changes something by maybe 5% Some gang bonus might change something by 2%. These numbers are SMALL. If your involvement at the keyboard was allowed to change the outcome of battles, no ship, no mod and no gang would be of any relevance with it's tiny little percentages. Eve is for ex Scramble / Defender players. We've lost our edge and Counterstrike confuses us. Elite was awesome too. What we do have is patience. We're happy to wait 37 days for 2% more chance to fire more bullets. The only other thing we have to look forward to is the divorce and mother's funeral anyway. -- Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something?
Reacz Caldari Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:35:00 - [116] Edited by: Reacz on 29/10/2007 11:37:31 1) Train up Mini Cruisers - Level 5 2) Train up Heavy Assault Ships - Level 4/5 3) Buy Vaga - 100 mil 4) Fit Vaga - 25 bil 5) Fly around laughing manically as your enemies try to hit you - Priceless 6) Spam nerf nano threads with as much 'Omg l2p' comments as possible. EVE PvP in a nutshell. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:40:00 - [117] Quote: 1 - Orbit Target 2 - Switch modules on 3 - AFK a bit 4 - Better ship wins lol This amused me, Im betting with these tactics u loose alot !
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:43:00 - [118] rofl So waht does "Better Ship wins" mean ? A bs is better than a inty but your bad tactics dont seem to work, i orbit and i cant hit it ! firstly "best shop wins" makes me laugh, what does "Better ship" mean ? secondly, why am i replying to a poster that is clueless about the game it seems. Thirdly, im not wasting my time anymore gb
MR CAPSLOCK	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:45:00 - [119] Originally by: Industrial Witch 1 - Orbit Target 2 - Switch modules on 3 - AFK a bit 4 - Better ship wins YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW PVP WORKS. SO YOU SAYING ON ALL THESE KILLS WITH FIRGS GAINSTS BS THAT FRIGATE WAS THE BETTER SHIP? Originally by: Cadela Fria The more systems you put in to govern various parts of the game, the smaller the sandbox gets.
heheheh The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:52:00 - [120] Quote: 'Better ship always wins' means that newer players have to buy ISK to get the better ship and stand a chance against the older players This is he worst part and i can tell u are the worst kind of player if u think like this, honestly its laughable. You have to buy ISK to win lol, seriously thought you mkust be about 12 or have the IQ of a dead mouse.



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