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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.25 08:42:00 -
[91]
Originally by: VaderDSL It will have the second best warfarelinks in game, not that it matters because you can use any links on any ship and it doesntmatter asthe max bonus if hardly anything in a racial ship than a non racial.
When damps get nerfed, info warfare links in a dampening squad will be extremely useful! Dedicated damp boats with the extra strength and optimal on damps will be much better than armor or shield links (especially since they are stacking nerfed)
Ummm...
There are so many things wrong with the above assertions that my head hurts.
Look, I'll keep it simple.
The Amarr, Caldari & Minmatar gang links are universally useful in pretty much any gang or fleet.
The Gallente ones are useful only in very specialized EW situations.
In addition, the Eos is subpar statwise, compared to the other fleet command ships. The only thing it had going for it was the dps (which admittedly was over the top).
So we have a ship with crappy stats and a niche use case, compared to ships with universally-good gang links and better stats.
See the problem yet?
I'm fine with the Eos losing the dps, assuming it gets something to compensate and help it actually work in the fleet support role. But it needs that something.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.25 11:18:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Remember that the Eos can only do that damage from point-blank range, with minimal tank, cap vulnerability, web vulnerability, no gang mods, and a limited supply of fragile, slow, poor-tracking heavy drones. If anything, the Eos was arguably the worst of the fleet commands, since it had no role in a larger gang.
For being the "worst" fleet command ship it seems awefully popular.
Originally by: VaderDSL Now CCP please increase thewarfare link efectiveness on Fleet commandships from 3% to 7.5% and add in a cap reduction bonus either as a new logistics requirement or under the role bonus.
Lol, I would love that. Do you have any idea how much fun it would be to fly in a Claymore gang with such a change?
Cap reduction isn't needed though, it is supposed to be quite a penalty for your ship to have 3 gangmods fitted and running considering the bonuses they provide.
Jita fix: The distributed market hub
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.25 11:21:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
For being the "worst" fleet command ship it seems awefully popular.
It was the worst in actually doing its intended role.
It was very popular as a solo or small-group gank boat.
Now that's gone, it's back to being worst in its role, and only that. And being even worse at it, if possible (can't use as many logistics drones, now, which used to be the only general-use thing it could contribute to a gang).
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.10.25 11:38:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 25/10/2007 11:42:34
Originally by: Alex Harumichi Now that's gone, it's back to being worst in its role, and only that. And being even worse at it, if possible (can't use as many logistics drones, now, which used to be the only general-use thing it could contribute to a gang).
I guess Gallente finally got one ship that actually sucks. Welcome to EVE.
Btw, my Gallente char will complete logistics lvl 4 in a few hours, guess she only will be flying the Astarte then.
Jita fix: The distributed market hub
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.25 12:22:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 25/10/2007 12:24:07
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
I guess Gallente finally got one ship that actually sucks. Welcome to EVE.
Oh, every race has (including Gallente) has seen crap ships come and go. We used to have by far the worst stealth bomber (Nemesis, *ridiculously* bad) and the second-worst inty (Ares). Those are both either being fixed or fixed already. Same goes for other examples from other races... take the Sacrilege, for example: used to be complete crap, now it's excellent. And so on and so forth.
Don't pretend that Gallente ships have all been great, they (like others) have been a very mixed bag over the many years.
Used to be a time when flying anything other than a missile boat in pvp was stupid, because missiles were just so much better than anything else. At that time, Gallente as a race sucked. That, too, has shifted, and will probably shift again.
Thing is, I doubt CCP wants to intentionally create useless ships. I think this nerf was the result of someone looking at the CCP equivalent of EFT and nerfing the DPS, without taking the ship performance as a fleet support platform into account. I still have hope that the situation can be corrected.
Quote:
Btw, my Gallente char will complete logistics lvl 4 in a few hours, guess she only will be flying the Astarte then.
Guess so. The Astarte is ok, but not great (imho). I've had more success with it as a railboat than a blaster boat, but ymmv. I think it's pretty balanced with the other combat command ships.
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Ilphafay
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Posted - 2007.10.25 16:42:00 -
[96]
Wow. At least now CCP will surprises me. The Eos has the worst command link bonuses (read as: useless), worst tank, worst combat range and now they will drop heavily Eos DPS too. Not only gun slots but drones too? "Hey! Nice Command Ship. Even thought it isin't able to command even 5 heavy drones but it looks nice though.." If my opinion is asked the CCP makes Eos like practical useless ship.
For now NOS has nerfed, the drones will be nerfed and.. oh there is blasters left but they are next, right? So CCP has some kind of problem with Gallente ships, er? Why we all people don't fly only Vagabonds?
I don't understand why the CCP doesn't get the point of drones. They will do maybe a much of damage but you can shoot them down in seconds. I just wonder does anyone in CCP has ever flied Eos.
It feels so good to read 90 days of skills to such a ship. Thank you CCP. I just wonder as gallente spec for what we are paying for. I think my time as Eve - Player has gone. I just got enough for those nerfs now. I'm not going to learn to Astarte just for waiting the next nerf what it will get.
Anyway.. I will get over it. The new Conan game will released at March so this will be my goal.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Gallente The JORG Corporation Methods of Mayhem Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.25 17:42:00 -
[97]
So now the eos goes from having the worst range by far to also having crap dps to go with it.
N1 ccp on another stupid nerf.
My views may represent those of my corp/alliance but you will have to ask em to be sure. |
Meepie
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Posted - 2007.10.25 22:20:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Meepie on 25/10/2007 22:20:36
Originally by: Zolian
Originally by: Dark Flare The Gallente tears in this thread make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
The Ishkur was the best AF, by far. The Eos was the best Fleet Command by far. The Myrmidon was the best BC by far.
Now they're actually in line with the others.
"OHNOES MY SOLOPWNMOBILE R NERFED D:"
Careface.
Quoted for the brutal truth.
Quoting your main with a brand new alt ftl
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eded
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Posted - 2007.10.25 22:42:00 -
[99]
Quote: Please remove this poor idea. .......
/signet
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Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.10.25 23:08:00 -
[100]
I congratulate the changes to damage output, but the fact that tank has not also been brought in-line with other fleet command ships seems to be a very bad decision.
Also information warfare links, as mentioned, suck for general usage.
Options are:
Give Gallente an armored warfare link bonus: Cheesy to take it from the Amarr but would make a whole lot of sense with factional warfare incoming.
Give the ship half (3/4?) the bonus but apply it to Skirmish and Armored warfare links. Since Gallente are a bit about getting there, and a bit about getting there in one piece.
Give all the ships a plain warfare link bonus and let the pilots choose what links they want to fit. Because having to fly a Damnation to support your Gallente fleet mates or a having to fly either the Damnation or Vulture if you happen to be Minmatar is probably a bad idea for both immersion and factional warfare.
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Dark Flare
Caldari Corpus PCG The State
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Posted - 2007.10.25 23:28:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Meepie Edited by: Meepie on 25/10/2007 22:20:36
Originally by: Zolian
Originally by: Dark Flare The Gallente tears in this thread make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
The Ishkur was the best AF, by far. The Eos was the best Fleet Command by far. The Myrmidon was the best BC by far.
Now they're actually in line with the others.
"OHNOES MY SOLOPWNMOBILE R NERFED D:"
Careface.
Quoted for the brutal truth.
Quoting your main with a brand new alt ftl
Making stupid assumptions ftl?
I have 1 account, my two alts are PerfectFool and NanoDerek (as seen in the PvP tournament!).
Thanks for making me laugh though.
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Zingu
Valiant Logistics Inc. EternalRising
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Posted - 2007.10.26 05:44:00 -
[102]
Can we at least get a new information warfare link, something like say, information warfare link - range booster which boosts targeting range and another booster for targeting speed. Would at least be of value for a fleet freeing up a high or a low slot.
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Zolian
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Posted - 2007.10.26 05:49:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Zolian on 26/10/2007 05:50:00
Originally by: Meepie
Quoting your main with a brand new alt ftl
Has it ever occured to you I quoted him because I feel the same way? Apparently, that makes me his alt.
Oh hey, all the people in the carrier thread must be alts of each other then! Sure.
Keep on spouting nonsense, I'm still glad to see gal finally balanced.
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Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2007.10.26 08:30:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Give all the ships a plain warfare link bonus and let the pilots choose what links they want to fit. Because having to fly a Damnation to support your Gallente fleet mates or a having to fly either the Damnation or Vulture if you happen to be Minmatar is probably a bad idea for both immersion and factional warfare.
Ill go with this. Rarely do you have any use for the single bonus you get on a command ship for its OWN race's bonus, much less for all three of the links per-race provided. In a proper fleet support setup you might even go so far as sticking 5 links on the poor bastard CS meaning damage is moot.
If CCP is as huge on role play as they say they are, the Eos needs to change hands away from Creodron (kinda like what they did with Khanid MKII). If it is not allowed to be a drone *****, the Creodron wouldn't have made it in the first place.
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Joran Ven
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Posted - 2007.10.26 09:56:00 -
[105]
Ok, just thought to pipe in.
A double nerf is bad, a triple nerf should be pretty much a no go. Turret reduction I can live with,
bandwidth new concept should not directly tie to the drones size as per drone bay, reducing the amount of combat drones flyable fine but at least modify the band width on support drones so full flights of heavy logistics or e-war drones can be flown allowing for the fleet support role to be felt.
DRONE BAY SIZE! ok I know the base drone bay was increased but still at the higher levels of command ships you now get less bang for your buck, increase the size increase per level to 30m3 so that the final size is equivalent of what it can fly now. This would allow for 4 flights of the mixed drone size that seem to be the way things look to be going.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.26 11:36:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Joran Ven Ok, just thought to pipe in.
A double nerf is bad, a triple nerf should be pretty much a no go. Turret reduction I can live with,
bandwidth new concept should not directly tie to the drones size as per drone bay, reducing the amount of combat drones flyable fine but at least modify the band width on support drones so full flights of heavy logistics or e-war drones can be flown allowing for the fleet support role to be felt.
DRONE BAY SIZE! ok I know the base drone bay was increased but still at the higher levels of command ships you now get less bang for your buck, increase the size increase per level to 30m3 so that the final size is equivalent of what it can fly now. This would allow for 4 flights of the mixed drone size that seem to be the way things look to be going.
Your post seems to be commenting on how nerfing this ship is unfair, without any real basis for that assertion.
Even after these changes, 5 turrets + damage bonus + 75mbit of drones is still more firepower than the other command ships. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
Random Womble
Minmatar Master Miners Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.26 12:36:00 -
[107]
Considering the gang links and the lack of a drone damage bonus i would say the nerf does go to far, personally i believe either just taking the 2 turrets away but letting eos still use 5 heavys or doing what has been done but changing the turret damage bonus to a drone bonus is the way to go.
The idea about mixing gang mod bonus up would also work well, im thinking here 5% effectiveness bonus per level to current set and 3% to a secondary set, the problem there is the damnation where no 2 sets of mods really fit other wise minnie= shield+speed caldari ecm+shield, gallenete= sorry boys but for purpose of continuity must have ecm+speed/armor (im thinking armor to make everything sort of fit) amarr=armor/something (speed?). The other final option would be to introduce some new WF links i have been think as was mentioned earlier a targeting range one with say 3% per info WF spec level would be a good one to introduce for fleet battles (making about 40% bonus with max skills the risk in using it is the eos dies and all ships lose their lock range).
Also just to a few comments in this thread about the other fleet commands other than possibly the damanation which i cant fly you will struggle to fit for long range and a tank and gang mods my main experience is in the claymore where if using gang mods you dont have the cap to tank (making its bonus kinda pointless) or the PG to fit long guns without completely nerfing your speed due to fitting mods, that you have to choose between range, tank and speed is fine by me but dont moan about not being able to do everything at once on an eos either.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.10.26 13:34:00 -
[108]
don't kill my Eos.
pretty please?
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Banzai OdiN
Caldari Species 5618 R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.27 11:40:00 -
[109]
Still no devage ?
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Xenomorphea
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.27 11:55:00 -
[110]
/signed
the EOS does not even have drone damage bonus, at least let it deploy 5 heavies.
Cheers, Xeno
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A Sinner
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.27 12:41:00 -
[111]
If you are really going to do this nerf that prolly thousands of people don't agree with and will hate you for that, at least please change the name of the ship and let us remember Eos as the wonderful ship it used to be, which also won't be worthy of that name anymore, considering Eos was a titanic godess that rose from the ocean every morning to open the gates of heaven with her hands so that the sun will come out. Change it to Dionysus cause only someone drunk enough will fly it after the nerf.
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achoura
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Posted - 2007.10.27 12:54:00 -
[112]
Tbh i understand why ccp have removed turrets and drones, it's really is on far with the other FCs dps wise now.
However it has always had the weakest tank too, it has also always been cap heavy - just try "tanking" and running your gang links - the dps of the ship, and the flexibility of drones, was the trade off for the poor tank.
It would have been nice if there were more verity to the bandwidth being limited to medium combat drones but still having 5 heavy logistic or sentries.
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Suboran
Gallente Sphinx Inc Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.10.27 13:06:00 -
[113]
eo s is a fleet command ship, why not give it a bonus to railguns optimal, damage and sentry drones? as well as the tanking bonus that it currently has. not every gallente ship has to be about blasters.
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nemississ
Kissaki Confederation
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Posted - 2007.10.27 15:55:00 -
[114]
Edited by: nemississ on 27/10/2007 15:56:44 right so just a heads up if no ones mentioned it whit the way the eos is going its looking to be on par damage wise with a vexor.......due to the dandwith nerf allowing it only use medium drones if i am correct it has an obviously much better tank and the ability to use warfare links.....but the fact that were looking at a T2 battle cruiser which imo is actually overpowered the way they are cutting it down seems wrong imo.
your looking at turning one of the best command ships into the worst command ship and the reason is simple it dosent get a drone bonus and with the turret nerf its seems ccp wants it to be primarily a drone boat. so now its using t2 medium drones with no bonuses and 5 turrets.....you can get more damage out of a brutix or a vexor.
honestly the eos needed a nerf but mabe try this instead switch its turret bonus to a drone bonus leave the tank bonus kill the 2 turret slots mabe 3 if you really want to balance it out. at least with this your forcing it into its intended role as a supposrt ship because now it has a binch of no turret highslots to be filled with remote reppers or warfare links. and in the process not turned an awsome ship into a total peice of crap outdamaged by a vexor or its t1 counter part.
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achoura
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Posted - 2007.10.27 15:59:00 -
[115]
Originally by: nemississ Edited by: nemississ on 27/10/2007 15:56:44 right so just a heads up if no ones mentioned it whit the way the eos is going its looking to be on par damage wise with a vexor.......due to the dandwith nerf allowing it only use medium drones if i am correct it has an obviously much better tank and the ability to use warfare links.....but the fact that were looking at a T2 battle cruiser which imo is actually overpowered the way they are cutting it down seems wrong imo.
your looking at turning one of the best command ships into the worst command ship and the reason is simple it dosent get a drone bonus and with the turret nerf its seems ccp wants it to be primarily a drone boat. so now its using t2 medium drones with no bonuses and 5 turrets.....you can get more damage out of a brutix or a vexor.
honestly the eos needed a nerf but mabe try this instead switch its turret bonus to a drone bonus leave the tank bonus kill the 2 turret slots mabe 3 if you really want to balance it out. at least with this your forcing it into its intended role as a supposrt ship because now it has a binch of no turret highslots to be filled with remote reppers or warfare links. and in the process not turned an awsome ship into a total peice of crap outdamaged by a vexor or its t1 counter part.
FC ships are not ment to deal damage. They are ment to a) tank b) run active mods buffing their gang. Pity it can't even do 1 out of 3.
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nemississ
Kissaki Confederation
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Posted - 2007.10.27 16:19:00 -
[116]
right so im not even saying deal damage im just saying it should probably deal more damage then a t1 cruiser mabe even its t1 counter part the brutix
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OreHauler MkII
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Posted - 2007.10.27 17:13:00 -
[117]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Your post seems to be commenting on how nerfing this ship is unfair, without any real basis for that assertion.
Even after these changes, 5 turrets + damage bonus + 75mbit of drones is still more firepower than the other command ships.
You've obviously never flown this ship, as it's the worst fleet command ship in a fleet command role, even before the nerf.
The only thing the EOS excelled at was solo / small gangs where it's drones and blasters could actually be used and abused. I'd wager it's also the only place where the information warfare mindlinks made any difference, as ECM in full fleet is a tiny part of any fighting compared to resists, speed, tackle mod range bonuses, etc.
So in a fleet after the changes we have a ship who's selling points are:
It's un-range bonused blaster weapon system is next to useless (It's not a rail platform) It's drones are arguably now close to useless (can't even 5x sentry anymore) It's racial warfare links clash with boosting modules that any ECM ship will carry, are stacking effected and a tiny part of fleet fighting (ECM) It still has the worst overall tank of the other three Fleet Command ships
So, as a fleet ship it is even worse then pre-patch.
As a small gang ship it's still decent.
End of story.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2007.10.27 17:52:00 -
[118]
Originally by: James Lyrus Even after these changes, 5 turrets + damage bonus + 75mbit of drones is still more firepower than the other command ships.
NERF THE TYPHOON!!!
The typhoon needs a nerf immediately. It's completely outragous that the typhoon is a much better miner than the scorpion. Both of them are tier 1 BS, it's totally unfair that the typhoon is alot better for mining!
Ok, this post does indeed seem totally ********, right? - Cause none will use this ship for mining, since they both suck at it.
Likewise, with the Eos after the nerf, all fleet command ships suck for solo/2-man PvP. None will use any of these ships for that. So it means **** all that the Eos is still hypotheticly the best 1vs1 ship of the fleet commands. In exactly the same way that it matters **** all that the typhoon is better than the scorp at mining.
Obviously, what does matter is how the fleet commands performs in [drumroll] situations where they're running ganglinks.
And the Eos is lightyears behind all the other 3 fleet command ships in the actual role of running ganglinks. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Tertius Caedes
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.27 17:57:00 -
[119]
Why nerf Eos? Lets Boost the other Fleet Cmd, and everyone is happy. :))
D |
Alexis Aristide
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.10.27 18:46:00 -
[120]
I think you got it all backwards CCP, instead of nerfing the drones, nerf the highs on the Eos, Myrm, and other ships that have some sort of drone bonus
so yeah, thanks CCP, you just nerfed everything ive spent 2 years training for! awesome! At least you were put in your place as far as the carriers are concerned.
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