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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
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Posted - 2007.10.27 20:59:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tarminic on 27/10/2007 21:11:10
Edited by: Tarminic on 27/10/2007 20:59:17
What is the purpose of industrial ships? TheyÆre to carry cargo around, are they not? Acting as the peons hauling gold to and from the castle, probes harvesting crystals or vespene gas, the ones to do the grinding to us non-carebears donÆt have to. ThatÆs the way itÆs supposed to be, anyway. But lately there has been a trend. More and more IÆm seeing industrial ships taking part in real, honest-to-god combat. Not just getting pwnd like would be proper for supporting class in any other decent game (medics donÆt tank well). DonÆt believe me?
What makes industrials usable for combat?
They have low HP, low maneuverability, and craptacular cap. BUT! There are several reasons why these ships show up in PvP anyway despite these features, which anyone sane would know that they arenÆt meant to be in combat:
1.Cargoholds û Industrials have huge cargos compared to proper ships, usually 10 to 20 times as much
2.Lots of slots û For some reason industrial ships have more slots than cruisers and even more slots than some battleships!
3.Capacitor Boosters û This works well with the large cargo + large slot combination, I will explain shortly
Example of Combat Industrial Ships û Ridiculious!
ECM Badger Mk. 2
Cost: 0.6 Million ISK (ship) + 2-3 Million ISK (fittings)
High: 2 small nosferatu
Medium: 6 Multispectral ECM
Low: 3 Signal Distortion Amplifiers
Gives this thing a jamming strength of 25, which means it can perma-jam a BATTLESHIP! A battleship costs about 30 times as much as this setup
With racial ECMs this ship can lock down TWO BATTLESHIPS which is just crazy. Can a Rook or Falcon do that?
Dampener/Anti-Tracking Badger
Cost: 1 Million ISk (ship) + 2 Million ISK (fittings)
High: 2 small nosferatu
Medium: 6 Sensor Dampener
Low: DC + Reinforced Bulkheads
This ship has 10K effective HP (more than most cruisers) and can quadruple the locking time of THREE ships, count them THREE. Even if they are capital ships that cost 300 times as much as it. Overpowered a bit?
This same setup with tracking disruptors instead of dampeners make it nearly impossible for any two gunboats to operate. Two megathrons cost 200 million ISK.
Sniper-Assist Badger
Cost: 0.6 Million ISK (ship) + 3 Million ISK (fittings)
High: 2 small nosferatu
Medium: 3x Tracking Link, 3x Remote Sensor Booster
Low: Whatever
This industrial ship can significantly help out up to three sniper ships for one ship it can increase itÆs tracking by 2X and its sensor range by over 2.5X. Even for three different ships it can improve eachÆs tracking by 30% and sensor range by 70%. It can also store ammo for them as well (3 dreads anyone? For a stupid hauler!)
Repair Badger
Cost: 0.6 Million ISK (ship), 4 Million ISK (modules)
High: 1 x Medium Armor Repair, 1 x Medium Shield Repair (one offline)
Medium: 6x Small Cap Booster
Low: RCUs
This ship alternates by putting one of its repairs offline and can constantly repair due to the massive number of cap boosters (6000 cargo hold)
Sniper Badger
Cost: 1 Million ISK (ship), 6 Million ISK (modules)
Highs: 1 x 250mm Railgun
Medium: 2 x Tracking Computer, 2 x Sensor Booster, 2 x Target Painter
Low: RCUs
Ok, here is the ultimate in stupidity û an INDUSTRIAL ship with medium weapons. The tracking computers and target painters multiply the damage significantly and with the right ammo this thing has an optimal range of over 60 kilometers. For gods sake its supposed to move CARGO.
What Should We Do?
I have a few ideas that will help make industrial ships used less in combat and more in my killmails:
1. More cargo, less slots
2. Lower Speed
3. Less HP
4. Maximum Targets: 0
5. Negative Resistances û they take more damage instead of less
6. Double Signature Radius
I think some combination of those will help make industrial ships used like they were meant to. You donÆt see semi-trucks next to tanks in Iraq do you???
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HAULERS OVERPOWERED!
Wrangler on Whining |
voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:00:00 -
[2]
Edited by: voogru on 27/10/2007 21:03:26
Sounds like someone got owned by a hauler.
 Quote:
You donÆt see semi-trucks next to tanks in Iraq do you???
Yeah you do. They are called gas trucks. They run in behind the tanks, and theres other semi-trucks that are tweaked for combat use just like a hauler would be tweaked for combat use.
Quote:
What Should We Do?
I have a few ideas that will help make industrial ships used less in combat and more in my killmails:
1. More cargo, less slots
2. Lower Speed
3. Less HP
4. Maximum Targets: 0
5. Negative Resistances û they take more damage instead of less
6. Double Signature Radius
I think some combination of those will help make industrial ships used like they were meant to.
1. Bad
2. Very bad
3. Very very bad
4. Very very very bad
5. Very very very very bad
6. Astronomically bad.
I'm dangerous! Watch out! |
Grapez
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:03:00 -
[3]
No discussion of combat haulers can be complete without this.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:04:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grapez
No discussion of combat haulers can be complete without this.
A perfect example of my argument. Those haulers cost at best one tenth of the ships destroyed in that video. And this isn't a problem you say????
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HAULERS OVERPOWERED!
Wrangler on Whining |
voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Grapez
No discussion of combat haulers can be complete without this.
A perfect example of my argument. Those haulers cost at best one tenth of the ships destroyed in that video. And this isn't a problem you say????
A solo vaga lost to a few haulers.
Hey wait a minute, doesnt everyone say that the vaga is overpowered and only nanoweenies use vagabonds?
The pilot was probably an eBayer who just got his ISK from fdfhdshfdshf.
I'm dangerous! Watch out! |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:15:00 -
[6]
Clearly battle badgers are killing real hardcore PVP action.
Mad props for bringing it.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:16:00 -
[7]
Whilst I apprecate the hunmor in being paid for whines - it does tend to make one take everything you say with a pinch of salt
SKUNK
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:20:00 -
[8]
Are you making a lot of isk off this, T?
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Reverend Revelator
Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:21:00 -
[9]
The definition of Epic Loser: First gets owned by a hauler, then goes to the forums to tell the whole game that he got owned by a hauler.
-- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love -- |
Major Stallion
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tarminic
WHINE
Are you kidding me? This post better be a joke. If your really that concerned about battle haulers, perhaps you should stray away from low sec gate ganking and maybe do some real pvping?
________________________________
High Sec PvP
Originally by: "Wylker"
CCP has finally mastered stupidity
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Sky Marshal
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:29:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 27/10/2007 21:34:11
You forgot that industrials ships has a really low scan resolution, it takes forever to target someone. So at least, each funny gang must include 2 models of one electronic warfare badger and 4/5 badger tanker ship to hope that the jammers can have the time to do their work.
It would be fun to see a Goon-like badger gang ^^
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Faye Valerii
Caldari
Exeunt Omnes
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:31:00 -
[12]
Well, AWACS and most electronic warfare planes nowadays are ... converted cargo/passenger aircraft !
( Comet, Neptune, E-3 Sentry, ELINT Hercules, Antonov something, etc )
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Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:35:00 -
[13]
Is it just me or is this thread going to achieve the exact opposite of what it claims its against? I have an overwhelming urge to go gatecamping in a badger blob now 
-
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Summer River
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:36:00 -
[14]
Awwwwwww, did someone's HAC get OMGWTFBBQPWNED!!!! by someone in a bader?
Good on people for thinking outside the square.
I can imagine the OP screaming on TS or Ventrilo "Get the badger! He is the one that got my HAC last week!"
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Asestorian
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:39:00 -
[15]
Everyone who takes this seriously has people snickering behind their backs tbh 
This is, after all, Tarminic we're talking about.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:42:00 -
[16]
congratulations tarminic you are becoming quite rich lately from your services
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
_lies above_
CCP Morpheus was here 
Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
[yellow]Kaem |
Fswd
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:47:00 -
[17]
Linkage
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:52:00 -
[18]
huzzah!
good show. and you know what? you totally made good points! I have to go ECM Mk2 now!
-----------------------------------
I'm working my way through college
target CCP
need...more room... |
Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:54:00 -
[19]
Tarminic! You need sensor boosters, otherwise the industrial ships lock on too slowly.
------------------------------
One more soldier off to war...
And one Velator in my hangars. |
Shiner BockBeer
Go Go Gadget ForumPostingAlt
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Posted - 2007.10.27 21:56:00 -
[20]
Tarboy is right. We need an immediate nerfbat smackdown to put a stop to the huge roving gangs of sniper-assist Badgers that make every single system an unplayably choked with the wreckage of a million titans!
Bring on the Bat, CCP and slay mightily with it!
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Alyth
Gallente
Ma-Ven Industries
Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tarminic
What he said
I totally agree. Battle indies are totally ruining PvP as we know it! I swear a Dev in BoB must have leaked the idea to them!
Aren't you a day late with this Tarminic?
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Inservio Letum
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tarminic
<expose on Goon badger vs vaga clips>
I have a few ideas that will help make industrial ships used less in combat and more in my killmails:
1. More cargo, less slots
2. Lower Speed
3. Less HP
4. Maximum Targets: 0
5. Negative Resistances û they take more damage instead of less
6. Double Signature Radius
I think some combination of those will help make industrial ships used like they were meant to. You donÆt see semi-trucks next to tanks in Iraq do you???
1) Awwww! Did poow widduw Tawminny get his big impwessive ship bwown to pieces by the big meany badger buwwy? :rolleyes: Get your mommy to kiss it better.
2) "meant to do"??? Who the heck are you to dictate how people play the game? I say more power to em for coming up with it. Sounds like it kicked your butt more than once, so it obviously works ^^
On the other hand, your infantile whining suggests that may not have been much of a feat....
3) You don't see semi-trucks? Hauler + reinforced bulkheads in iraq.... Hmmm don't they call that an APC? Or did you get stuck on "is it bigger than a breadbox"?
On the whole, you suggestion does one thing and one thing only : it makes an already vulnerable ship class MORE vulnerable to anyone NOT flying it as a warship. Go back to counterstrike.
Originally by: Tarminic
Acting as the peons hauling gold to and from the castle
This just in from the Cry For Help department....
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:17:00 -
[23]
Don't forget about the awesome power of the officer smartbomb bestower 
(that's the second time I've had to link that thread today)
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Inservio Letum
Edited by: Inservio Letum on 27/10/2007 22:20:01
Originally by: Sky Marshal
It would be fun to see a Goon-like badger gang ^^
Here ya go
Originally by: Tarminic
<expose on Goon badger vs vaga clips>
I have a few ideas that will help make industrial ships used less in combat and more in my killmails:
1. More cargo, less slots
2. Lower Speed
3. Less HP
4. Maximum Targets: 0
5. Negative Resistances û they take more damage instead of less
6. Double Signature Radius
I think some combination of those will help make industrial ships used like they were meant to. You donÆt see semi-trucks next to tanks in Iraq do you???
1) Awwww! Did poow widduw Tawminny get his big impwessive ship bwown to pieces by the big meany badger buwwy? :rolleyes: Get your mommy to kiss it better.
2) "meant to do"??? Who the heck are you to dictate how people play the game? I say more power to em for coming up with it. Sounds like it kicked your butt more than once, so it obviously works ^^
On the other hand, your infantile whining suggests that may not have been much of a feat....
3) You don't see semi-trucks? Hauler + reinforced bulkheads in iraq.... Hmmm don't they call that an APC? Or did you get stuck on "is it bigger than a breadbox"?
On the whole, you suggestion does one thing and one thing only : it makes an already vulnerable ship class MORE vulnerable to anyone NOT flying it as a warship. Go back to counterstrike.
Originally by: Tarminic
Acting as the peons hauling gold to and from the castle
This just in from the Cry For Help department....
did that zing over your head?
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
_lies above_
CCP Morpheus was here
Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
[yellow]Kaem |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 22:39:00 -
[25]
Tarmy you ***** me up, not sure if its the post or the people who fell for it
I'm currently involved in medical research, concerning the therapuetic aspects of a swift kick in the rear
What do zombies and forum posters have in common? They like to sit about and moan! |
Jack Jombardo
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:41:00 -
[26]
doesn't you know the Hulk PvP video?
NERV HULKS! 
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Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:44:00 -
[27]
Nerf Tarminic's free time.
___________
I learned to accept ship changes months ago. Suddenly I enjoy Eve. You should try it some time. |
Phrixus Zephyr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 27/10/2007 22:48:33
Originally by: consider telos
..then we had a fight and he was so dead and
then I like became champion of eve and then
ccp gave me a medal and a t-shirt and asked
me to go out with him on a date to mcD' |
benzss
The Increment
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:54:00 -
[29]
lmao
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Quintus Silanus
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Posted - 2007.10.27 22:54:00 -
[30]
My 2 cents on combat industrials:
Q-ship.
Google it.
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