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So how many frigates would it take to... kill a carrier?

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omiNATION Gallente Vanguard of the Ouroboros Nation	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:22:00 - [1] Last time I asked it was a t1 BS and Apparently wouldn't take more than a handful of frigates, so the natural next question is... how bout a carrier? Could you kill a carrier with frigates? If so then how many? Second question: Would they be completely useless as not even to bring them along if you had a small fleet? How many BS would it take to kill a carrier? Then subtract one BS, how many frigates would compensate for the loss of that BS? If they're completely useless, what if you used them to damp and ecm, then what? Note i said carrier not mothership. [sig] EVE, basically an MMORPG with prison rules. [/sig]
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:24:00 - [2] frigs are pretty effective for killing fighters and supporting with ewar, but the dps makes it completely impractical to try and kill one with frigs I'm currently involved in medical research, concerning the therapuetic aspects of a swift kick in the rear What do zombies and forum posters have in common? They like to sit about and moan!
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:33:00 - [3] T1 frigs simply lack the dps to down a carrier, unless u have a lot of them hehe, figures? i dunno? 10 might be hard, 20? 30? i dunno and i hope i never find out hahahaa CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Jimer Lins Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:36:00 - [4] Quote: If so then how many? All of them. ;) --
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:37:00 - [5] Edited by: Tarminic on 30/10/2007 19:37:40 Originally by: omiNATION Last time I asked it was a t1 BS and Apparently wouldn't take more than a handful of frigates, so the natural next question is... how bout a carrier? Could you kill a carrier with frigates? If so then how many? I'd say that about a hundred frigates fitted for damage could take out a carrier in a reasonable amount of time. Quote: Would they be completely useless as not even to bring them along if you had a small fleet? Not at all! Frigates are good at taking out fighters and smaller ships like interceptors, and are needed for tackling. Quote: How many BS would it take to kill a carrier? A group of 5-10 battleships working together could take down a carrier. Quote: Then subtract one BS, how many frigates would compensate for the loss of that BS? If they're completely useless, what if you used them to damp and ecm, then what? From a purely financial perspective, a T1-fitted frigate is about 100K-300K ISK (generously). A T1-fitted battleship is 60-120 million ISK. So financially speaking, one cheap battleship is worth several hundred frigates. Frigates also make great support platforms for electronic warfare, especially the Griffin/Maulus. That's another good use for smaller ships, as electronic warfare support. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
ChimeraRouge Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:39:00 - [6] Shouldn't take more than 10 frigates. Carriers are overpowered and I'm glad they can only deploy 5 drones now.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:40:00 - [7] There was a post in CAOD about 6 months ago where 40-50 frigates took down a carrier in CZDJ-1. The post is entitled "how many frigates does it take to get to the center of a carrier". I remember reading this, because it was my corp that lost the carrier. ;-) Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Liang Nuren There was a post in CAOD about 6 months ago where 40-50 frigates took down a carrier in CZDJ-1. The post is entitled "how many frigates does it take to get to the center of a carrier". I remember reading this, because it was my corp that lost the carrier. ;-) Liang Link please? ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
Jita Alt	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:41:00 - [9] 427 __________________________________ Calling you an idiot on a forum nearby
Dirk Magnum Red Light Enterprises Eastern Star Federation	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:42:00 - [10] Originally by: ChimeraRouge Shouldn't take more than 10 frigates. Carriers are overpowered and I'm glad they can only deploy 5 drones now. If ten frigates can kill a carrier that means carriers are extremely underpowered, and vindicates everyone who has *****ed about the fighter launch nerf.
Tarminic Forsaken Resistance	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:44:00 - [11] Originally by: Dirk Magnum If ten frigates can kill a carrier that means carriers are extremely underpowered, and vindicates everyone who has *****ed about the fighter launch nerf. Care to explain your logic? The number of fighters a carrier is capable of deploying has no bearing on how many frigates would be required to destroy one. ---------------- Tarminic - 29 Million SP in Forum Warfare Wrangler on Whining
Fenren	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:48:00 - [12] how much can a carrier tank?
Andargor theWise Collateral Damage Unlimited Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:48:00 - [13] 42, of course. - Stop the Feature Glut: Take the API to the Next Level
Manerethen The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:49:00 - [14] All the frigs have to do is kill the fighters and then the carrier becomes useless as an offensive being. Purely a medic from there. Probably about 40/50 though i would say because a frig doesn't exactly have a lot of DPS.
Dirk Magnum Red Light Enterprises Eastern Star Federation	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:50:00 - [15] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/10/2007 19:54:15 If fighters are completely incapable of damaging frigates, and a capital tank cannot sustain the life of a ship with thousands of times the HP of its attackers, then carriers are underpowered. Oh, I should have said this earlier, but I guess the carrier could also launch repeated waves of T2 scout drones, which frigates will fall to rather easily. If you assume that despite this, carriers are still vulnerable to a few frigates, then carriers should, again, be considered underpowered. I could care less about nerfing the number of fighters that a carrier can launch. A nerf like that still needs to be balanced though. A degree of e-war immunity (warp core strength +10 or something, with reduced vulnerability to sensor dampening as well) should probably be bestowed on dreads, carriers, and freighters anyway. If carriers really are so vulnerable to frigates in out and out combat, they should at least have the ability to warp off despite being scrammed by one or two tacklers.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:52:00 - [16] It's not ALL frigates, but its pretty f'in close: http://kb.pyrrhus-sicarii.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=851 Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Dirk Magnum Red Light Enterprises Eastern Star Federation	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/10/2007 20:01:44 Originally by: Wylker It's not ALL frigates, but its pretty f'in close: http://kb.pyrrhus-sicarii.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=851 That looks like a pretty bad fitting setup on that Archon. And what's with the estimated prices on those energized membranes?
Kane Rizzel NovaKane Incorporated Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Andargor theWise 42, of course. This Originally by: High Sierra note to self: dont ever say anything to anyone on the internet about anything ever again.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Fenren how much can a carrier tank? Using EFT an Archon with 3xEANM-II and a DCU-II has an effective 1,431,366 hitpoints. If we ignore any repping and assume a Rifter doing about 85 DPS it'd take about 4.66 hours to kill the Archon. Of course the thing probably is repping itself and with dual capital reppers should be repping around 850 damage per second. So, you'd need at least 11 frigs to start brining it down at all. Another 10 would take about 30 minutes to kill it. So I'd say at least 30 frigs to do it in anything like a reasonable timeframe (15 minutes give or take). All back of the napkin calcs of course...things are never so simple but puts it in some kind of perspective.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:28:00 - [20] A halfway decently tanked Carrier (with smartbombs to force the the frigates to stay at range) should need at least 100 tech 1 fitted tech 1 frigates to kill, and even then it'll be very slow. If we're talking tech 2 fitted Assault Ships, then maybe around 50 something. (The above is assuming tech 2 equipment only on the carrier and no rigs.)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:33:00 - [21] Mister owl, how many frigates does it take to kill a carrier? 1...a2...a3... CRUNCH the world may never know. oh and... OVER 9000!!!!!! ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:35:00 - [22] THIS MANY!!!! ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Reem Fairchild A halfway decently tanked Carrier (with smartbombs to force the the frigates to stay at range) should need at least 100 tech 1 fitted tech 1 frigates to kill, and even then it'll be very slow. If we're talking tech 2 fitted Assault Ships, then maybe around 50 something. (The above is assuming tech 2 equipment only on the carrier and no rigs.) What are you basing this gratuitously generic and out of your ass statement on noob corp member? Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Sales Portsmouth Shipyards IPO Discussion
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:45:00 - [24] Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 30/10/2007 21:45:33 A punisher with 3 light electron blasters (the punisher high slots are unbonused), 3 damage mods, and two cap rechargers can blast away forever with a startling 137 dps. You also have the cap and room to fit a small energy neut. An Archon can tank 3,508 dps with a t2 dual rep setup. You would need 26 punishers fitted this way to break the Archon's tank. Or would you? Since we fitted out the small neuts, it would only take 15 punishers to do the job. However, it would take a very very long time. With 26 punishers, though, his tank would actually break pretty quickly. So there you go. 15 is the absolute minimum.
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:53:00 - [25] note that i have not actually done any real math on this
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Wylker Originally by: Reem Fairchild A halfway decently tanked Carrier (with smartbombs to force the the frigates to stay at range) should need at least 100 tech 1 fitted tech 1 frigates to kill, and even then it'll be very slow. If we're talking tech 2 fitted Assault Ships, then maybe around 50 something. (The above is assuming tech 2 equipment only on the carrier and no rigs.) What are you basing this gratuitously generic and out of your ass statement on noob corp member? Do you really think a question worded that way is going to get any kind of an answer?
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Bu Jinkan Edited by: Bu Jinkan on 30/10/2007 21:45:33 A punisher with 3 light electron blasters (the punisher high slots are unbonused), 3 damage mods, and two cap rechargers can blast away forever with a startling 137 dps. You also have the cap and room to fit a small energy neut. An Archon can tank 3,508 dps with a t2 dual rep setup. You would need 26 punishers fitted this way to break the Archon's tank. Or would you? Since we fitted out the small neuts, it would only take 15 punishers to do the job. However, it would take a very very long time. With 26 punishers, though, his tank would actually break pretty quickly. So there you go. 15 is the absolute minimum. That assumes a tech 2 fit, and being able to go in close without dying to smartbombs though.
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.30 21:57:00 - [28] Those new amarr electronic attack ships would be prety effective.
Big Tortillaboy	Posted - 2007.10.30 22:06:00 - [29] what if the carrier uses light drones instead of fighters?
Xsinova	Posted - 2007.10.30 22:08:00 - [30] Man that would take a lot of Frigs.

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