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BludThirst	Posted - 2007.11.01 18:58:00 - [1] Just out of curiousity, which field command ship would you say is the best??? This is for after Trinity patch.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:00:00 - [2] Depends on what you're going to use them for. They all have strenghts and weaknesses, right now I'd say the Astarte is on top, closely followed by sleip and absolution, however Nighthawk owns them all for pve. However for pvp I can see it being outdone by other ships. Postcount: 795904 [02:40:22] <elmickers> if you're caldari in a fleet fight, bring a corp
BludThirst	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:07:00 - [3] Edited by: BludThirst on 01/11/2007 19:07:34 Okay, so nighthawk is best solo PvE field command. How about the best solo PvP??? And also resons why. Is the astarte going to be hit hard by the drone nerf the way the Eos has been???
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:29:00 - [4] Sleipnir is probably the best solo CS. It can kill anything it can't run away from. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:32:00 - [5] Originally by: VJ Maverick Sleipnir is probably the best solo CS. It can kill anything it can't run away from. yeap, id go with this too.
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:51:00 - [6] sleip is good and astarte has that raw blaster dmg that makes the kids scream those are my favourites tbh signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) why dont you just tell me ?
Riho Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.01 20:12:00 - [7] i can fly sleip and astarte.... both are great... but id go whit absolution tho... VERY uber ship :)
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.01 20:44:00 - [8] A Sleip properly set up with artillery can also one shot frigates/drones/destroyers like nobodys business.
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.11.01 20:57:00 - [9] just my opinion: PvE - Nighthawk PvP (solo) - Astarte, great gank ship PvP (gang) - Sleipnir, lovely to have around with a rapid deployment link
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.01 20:58:00 - [10] I would not solo in any command ship. However, if you really want to, then the Sleipner is our best bet. All of them have advantages and disadvantages and I would not trust anyone who claims otherwise.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.11.01 20:59:00 - [11] How is a sleip the best solo? Do you armor tank it? MWD+scram with no web leaves a 3 slot un-injected tank, or 2 slot injected tank. Just curious because I have Tech II medium projectiles and battlecruiser V, So I'm Minimatar cruiser V away from being able to fly one.
Rudy Metallo Additional Pylons	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:00:00 - [12] Sliep for solo, but two Absolutions are a killer team. Astarte is second best solo tbh. Nighthawk is nice too but missiles make me sad. -- We are the revolutionaries. We are the usurpers of the heavenly throne. We are the enemies of the Gods.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Last Wolf How is a sleip the best solo? Do you armor tank it? MWD+scram with no web leaves a 3 slot un-injected tank, or 2 slot injected tank. Just curious because I have Tech II medium projectiles and battlecruiser V, So I'm Minimatar cruiser V away from being able to fly one. The Sleipnir is a bigger Vagabond. A fast ship with a fall-off bonus. The two slot injected tank is all you need to survive most solo engagements. XL shield booster + amp. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:25:00 - [14] Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:25:45 Originally by: VJ Maverick Sleipnir is probably the best solo CS. It can kill anything it can't run away from. Sacrilege will destroy a Sleipnir. A gank fitted Sleip only does like 60 DPS to it, seriously.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:27:00 - [15] Edited by: VJ Maverick on 01/11/2007 21:32:11 Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:25:45 Originally by: VJ Maverick Sleipnir is probably the best solo CS. It can kill anything it can't run away from. Sacrilege will destroy a Sleipnir. A gank fitted Sleip only does like 60 DPS to it, seriously. I think you forgot a zero somewhere. And if you're talking about resistances then you have to figure out the Sleip's resistances as well. Minnie T2 ships are no sluches with resistances so the Sac will have a problem as well. And the Sac's HAM's will not reach a Slepnir if it is flown correctly. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:34:00 - [16] Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:35:18 Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:25:45 Originally by: VJ Maverick Sleipnir is probably the best solo CS. It can kill anything it can't run away from. Sacrilege will destroy a Sleipnir. A gank fitted Sleip only does like 60 DPS to it, seriously. I think you forgot a zero somewhere. Sleipnir with 7x 425mm autos, Barrage, 3x Gyrostab, and 4x Hammerhead II does 701 DPS. 313 explosive, 261 kinetic, 127 thermal. Standard Sac nano fit is 2x MAR II, 2x OD II, EANM. After those resists, Sleipnir does (313 * 0.112) + (261 * 0.211) + (127 * 0.366) = 136.5 DPS. Ok, I did kind of exaggerate on the DPS there, but that amount of DPS is EASILY reppable by 2x MAR II, and the Sac can run them for a LONG time. Note that this is 136.5 DPS at OPTIMAL. You won't be at optimal. You will be into falloff and do substantially less than this.
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:41:00 - [17] Edited by: Last Wolf on 01/11/2007 21:42:53 Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Last Wolf How is a sleip the best solo? Do you armor tank it? MWD+scram with no web leaves a 3 slot un-injected tank, or 2 slot injected tank. Just curious because I have Tech II medium projectiles and battlecruiser V, So I'm Minimatar cruiser V away from being able to fly one. The Sleipnir is a bigger Vagabond. A fast ship with a fall-off bonus. The two slot injected tank is all you need to survive most solo engagements. XL shield booster + amp. Wouldn't a tech II Invuln be better than an amp? Uses less CPU also. Something like this 7x 220 AC II's 1x medium/small Smartbomb CPU/PG permitting. 10mn MWD II 24k T2 scram Medium Electro Injector w/800s X-Large Shield booster II Invuln II 2x gyros, 2x Nanos, 1 over drive. 1x poly carb 1x speed rig (Due to stacking nerfs)
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:36:46 Note that this is 136.5 DPS at OPTIMAL. You won't be at optimal. You will be into falloff and do substantially less than this. EDIT: What do you mean the "missiles won't hit?" Nano-sac is faster than you, that means it can web you. A Sleipnir's fall off is quite extensive. Thus a Sleipnir can hit the Sac outside of the Sac's HAM's. And the closer the Sac comes, the more damage the Sleipnir does. Furthermore, a nano-sac compromises its tank, whereas a nano-sleipnir does not. That's why in real world practical applications, the Sleipnir will be faster than the sac, and if it isn't, then the Sac's tank will not be able to hold up to the Sleip's DPS where as the Sleip's will easily tank 5 HAM's. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:45:00 - [19] Originally by: Last Wolf Edited by: Last Wolf on 01/11/2007 21:42:53 Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Last Wolf How is a sleip the best solo? Do you armor tank it? MWD+scram with no web leaves a 3 slot un-injected tank, or 2 slot injected tank. Just curious because I have Tech II medium projectiles and battlecruiser V, So I'm Minimatar cruiser V away from being able to fly one. The Sleipnir is a bigger Vagabond. A fast ship with a fall-off bonus. The two slot injected tank is all you need to survive most solo engagements. XL shield booster + amp. Wouldn't a tech II Invuln be better than an amp? Uses less CPU also. Something like this 7x 220 AC II's 1x medium/small Smartbomb CPU/PG permitting. 10mn MWD II 24k T2 scram Medium Electro Injector w/800s X-Large Shield booster II Invuln II 2x gyros, 2x Nanos, 1 over drive. 1x poly carb 1x speed rig (Due to stacking nerfs) The debate of boost amp v. inv field is always ongoing. I personally fit an amp but a lot of pilots fit inv fields instead. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:49:00 - [20] Originally by: VJ Maverick A Sleipnir's fall off is quite extensive. Thus a Sleipnir can hit the Sac outside of the Sac's HAM's. And the closer the Sac comes, the more damage the Sleipnir does. Furthermore, a nano-sac compromises its tank, whereas a nano-sleipnir does not. That's why in real world practical applications, the Sleipnir will be faster than the sac, and if it isn't, then the Sac's tank will not be able to hold up to the Sleip's DPS where as the Sleip's will easily tank 5 HAM's. The point is that the 2 MAR, 2 OD, 1 EANM, 2 Polycarb Sac will tank the Sleipnir's DPS at OPTIMAL as long as it has cap charges. This fit is also flat-out faster than you can get a Sleipnir without using snake implants. The Sleipnir is not faster than the Sac, not ever, and the Sac doesn't have to care about avoiding damage because it can permatank the Sleipnir while sitting still at 1km away. Also, if you think your 2-slot (after MWD, scram, injector) shield tank will tank 5 double boosted HAM launchers, you're nuts.
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:49:00 - [21] Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:36:46 Note that this is 136.5 DPS at OPTIMAL. You won't be at optimal. You will be into falloff and do substantially less than this. EDIT: What do you mean the "missiles won't hit?" Nano-sac is faster than you, that means it can web you. A Sleipnir's fall off is quite extensive. Thus a Sleipnir can hit the Sac outside of the Sac's HAM's. And the closer the Sac comes, the more damage the Sleipnir does. Furthermore, a nano-sac compromises its tank, whereas a nano-sleipnir does not. That's why in real world practical applications, the Sleipnir will be faster than the sac, and if it isn't, then the Sac's tank will not be able to hold up to the Sleip's DPS where as the Sleip's will easily tank 5 HAM's. if your gonna stay outside the sac's ham range all the time you will have to run your mwd constantly, and will then miss even more worst case the sac will just warp off as soon as you get out of scram range. But in this fight i would probably have put my isk on the sac
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:55:00 - [22] Originally by: VJ Maverick The debate of boost amp v. inv field is always ongoing. I personally fit an amp but a lot of pilots fit inv fields instead. Also, What about fitting a Webber instead of an amp/invuln.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:55:00 - [23] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: VJ Maverick A Sleipnir's fall off is quite extensive. Thus a Sleipnir can hit the Sac outside of the Sac's HAM's. And the closer the Sac comes, the more damage the Sleipnir does. Furthermore, a nano-sac compromises its tank, whereas a nano-sleipnir does not. That's why in real world practical applications, the Sleipnir will be faster than the sac, and if it isn't, then the Sac's tank will not be able to hold up to the Sleip's DPS where as the Sleip's will easily tank 5 HAM's. The point is that the 2 MAR, 2 OD, 1 EANM, 2 Polycarb Sac will tank the Sleipnir's DPS at OPTIMAL as long as it has cap charges. This fit is also flat-out faster than you can get a Sleipnir without using snake implants. The Sleipnir is not faster than the Sac, not ever, and the Sac doesn't have to care about avoiding damage because it can permatank the Sleipnir while sitting still at 1km away. Also, if you think your 2-slot (after MWD, scram, injector) shield tank will tank 5 double boosted HAM launchers, you're nuts. X-L sheild booster is equivalent to TWO LARGE armor repairers. Just like the Sac's tank will hold as long as there are cap charges, so will the Sleips. So yeah, I'm pretty sure XL shield bosoter + amp > 5 double boosted hams. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Last Wolf Originally by: VJ Maverick The debate of boost amp v. inv field is always ongoing. I personally fit an amp but a lot of pilots fit inv fields instead. Also, What about fitting a Webber instead of an amp/invuln. Generally webs are disfavored on Minmatar fall-off fighters. You should never be within webrange. But if you ever find yourself in web range, you will wish you had a web. Of course, at that point you will wish you didn't get out of bed that morning because you're probably screwed anyway. Originally by: Bodhisattvas by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:00:00 - [25] Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 22:02:15 Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 22:00:53 Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: VJ Maverick A Sleipnir's fall off is quite extensive. Thus a Sleipnir can hit the Sac outside of the Sac's HAM's. And the closer the Sac comes, the more damage the Sleipnir does. Furthermore, a nano-sac compromises its tank, whereas a nano-sleipnir does not. That's why in real world practical applications, the Sleipnir will be faster than the sac, and if it isn't, then the Sac's tank will not be able to hold up to the Sleip's DPS where as the Sleip's will easily tank 5 HAM's. The point is that the 2 MAR, 2 OD, 1 EANM, 2 Polycarb Sac will tank the Sleipnir's DPS at OPTIMAL as long as it has cap charges. This fit is also flat-out faster than you can get a Sleipnir without using snake implants. The Sleipnir is not faster than the Sac, not ever, and the Sac doesn't have to care about avoiding damage because it can permatank the Sleipnir while sitting still at 1km away. Also, if you think your 2-slot (after MWD, scram, injector) shield tank will tank 5 double boosted HAM launchers, you're nuts. X-L sheild booster is equivalent to TWO LARGE armor repairers. Just like the Sac's tank will hold as long as there are cap charges, so will the Sleips. So yeah, I'm pretty sure XL shield bosoter + amp > 5 double boosted hams. You. Have. Five. Mid. Slots. I take it you're going to run the XL booster on wishful thinking? MWD, scram, injector, XL Booster II, boost amp II. A medium injector with 800s won't sustain an XL booster, not by a long shot. Even with the MWD off you'll cap out in about 80 seconds. That's even assuming that this will fit, which it won't. (Not enough CPU, even with 220mm IIs.)
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:15:00 - [26] Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 01/11/2007 22:16:20 Solo: Astarte, Sleipnir, Abso, Nighthawk Small gang: Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso, Nighthawk Large gang: Sleipnir, Abso, Astarte, Nighthawk PvE: Nighthawk, Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso Overall best: Sleipnir
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:19:00 - [27] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 01/11/2007 22:16:20 Solo: Astarte, Sleipnir, Abso, Nighthawk Small gang: Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso, Nighthawk Large gang: Sleipnir, Abso, Astarte, Nighthawk PvE: Nighthawk, Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso Overall best: Sleipnir I would put the nighthawk in-front of the astarte and about tied with the abso for large gangs. It can fill the same role, in just about the same way as the abso. EDIT: Actually depends on what you mean by small and large gangs. Large gang = fleet, I agree, small gang = 20 or less, not sure. ☺☻☺☻☺ SO how do you get me to stop posting? Bump this thread Until devs answer
Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:20:00 - [28] Edited by: Last Wolf on 01/11/2007 22:21:31 Quote: You. Have. Five. Mid. Slots. I take it you're going to run the XL booster on wishful thinking? MWD, scram, injector, XL Booster II, boost amp II. A medium injector with 800s won't sustain an XL booster, not by a long shot. Even with the MWD off you'll cap out in about 80 seconds. That's even assuming that this will fit, which it won't. (Not enough CPU, even with 220mm IIs.) Actually, it does fit. Unless you are trying to fit 3 Gyros II, PDU II and DC II in the lows. Secondly. You REALLLY think hams will do 1.1k (with amp II) of damage every 5 seconds AFTER resists with NO damage mods? (Going by the sac setup above). The Sleip pilot won't be perma running the X-L, he will be boosting it every 15 seconds or so. edit: put quote in
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:22:00 - [29] Originally by: shinsushi I would put the nighthawk in-front of the astarte and about tied with the abso for large gangs. It can fill the same role, in just about the same way as the abso. EDIT: Actually depends on what you mean by small and large gangs. Large gang = fleet, I agree, small gang = 20 or less, not sure. Small gang: between 5 and 10. Large gang: above that. I guess you have a point with the Nighthawk.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:31:00 - [30] Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 22:31:31 Originally by: Last Wolf Edited by: Last Wolf on 01/11/2007 22:21:31 Quote: You. Have. Five. Mid. Slots. I take it you're going to run the XL booster on wishful thinking? MWD, scram, injector, XL Booster II, boost amp II. A medium injector with 800s won't sustain an XL booster, not by a long shot. Even with the MWD off you'll cap out in about 80 seconds. That's even assuming that this will fit, which it won't. (Not enough CPU, even with 220mm IIs.) Actually, it does fit. Unless you are trying to fit 3 Gyros II, PDU II and DC II in the lows. Secondly. You REALLLY think hams will do 1.1k (with amp II) of damage every 5 seconds AFTER resists with NO damage mods? (Going by the sac setup above). The Sleip pilot won't be perma running the X-L, he will be boosting it every 15 seconds or so. edit: put quote in Sacrilege with CN Terror and Warrior IIs does 347 DPS. The Sleipnir permarunning the booster on this damage distribution will tank 395 DPS. So you don't have to perma run it, but you do have to come pretty close to doing so. Also, it's easy as hell for the Sac to run you out of cap charges. He has a web, you don't. He can web you, then adopt a close orbit with his MWD turned off and your guns won't hit ****. He won't even need to boost, can run one repper constantly without charges. He'll just go afk and wait for you to die.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:59:00 - [31] astarte is the best all around.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:06:00 - [32] The sleipnir and nighthawk are the most versitile and consistent field commands you will find. The sleipnir will have to run from a sacriledge, its just a weakness to missile ships that most minmitar have.
Packe Minmatar Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.03 12:23:00 - [33] Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:36:46 Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:35:18 Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:25:45 Originally by: VJ Maverick Sleipnir is probably the best solo CS. It can kill anything it can't run away from. Sacrilege will destroy a Sleipnir. A gank fitted Sleip only does like 60 DPS to it, seriously. I think you forgot a zero somewhere. Sleipnir with 7x 425mm autos, Barrage, 3x Gyrostab, and 4x Hammerhead II does 701 DPS. 313 explosive, 261 kinetic, 127 thermal. Standard Sac nano fit is 2x MAR II, 2x OD II, EANM. After those resists, Sleipnir does (313 * 0.112) + (261 * 0.211) + (127 * 0.366) = 136.5 DPS. Ok, I did kind of exaggerate on the DPS there, but that amount of DPS is EASILY reppable by 2x MAR II, and the Sac can run them for a LONG time. Note that this is 136.5 DPS at OPTIMAL. You won't be at optimal. You will be into falloff and do substantially less than this. EDIT: What do you mean the "missiles won't hit?" Nano-sac is faster than you, that means it can web you. You would want to use Fleet Phased Plasma against Amarr resists Damage at optimum becomes 6000.366 thermal + 1200.211 kinetic = 244 dps after armor resists. 2x MAR II give about 640/9 hp/sec = 71 hp per second repped - note that barrage does 65 dps over this, where as fleet plasma does 173.. almost 2.5 times more damage above the tank. 1741 shield hps takes about 5 secs; 2730 armor hps last longer, 170 dps against 2730 hps, maybe 17 secs, hull lasts 3 secs. Sacrilege can tank this damage when the sleip is putting out about 80 dps ... deep into falloff, at about 25-30km
Liet Traep Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.03 15:12:00 - [34] Back on Armageddon Day on test server I tested a sacrilege against someone else in a sleipnir. With both of us having max skills I was able to easily tank his damage while breaking his shield tank. I would avoid getting close to a sac while in sleipnir nless the odds were heavily stacked in your favor. It's tank is pretty obscene and finally with the khanid changes it's a fearsome ship. If the damnation was a field command instead of a fleet command it would be THE top command ship. Ammar t2 armor tanks + caldari missile tech is pretty narsty.
Karandor Minmatar Wildlands Heavy Technologies FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.11.03 16:37:00 - [35] Soloing in a command ship is a bit silly IMO. There are many HACS that may not have the DPS but have much higher survivability which is what you need when soloing. 1 Vagabond finds you in almost any CS fit and you'll be held down until his friends arrive. Same goes for a huginn or rapier or arazu or even a falcon. I don't know where people are soloing in command ships but in the space I fly in it is pretty much suicide. Don't ***** about having to train a lot of skills until you fly minmatar.
Temp Boi Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2007.11.03 19:05:00 - [36] Vagas get shredded by Sleipnirs. They have the same falloff, therefore they'll both be hitting eachother, except the Sleipnir has an excellent tank, while the vaga simply has a hitpoint buffer. Also, 7 guns > 5 guns; that vaga wouldn't last 30 seconds.
Panteroid Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.03 19:08:00 - [37] Unless you have an idiotic pilot.. Abso > Astarte anyday of the week. Period. I do agree with the survivability of the sleip. I still don't agree that it is the best command ship though. They all have their strong points. And as far as tank and gank capabilities go.. it is the Abso.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.03 20:10:00 - [38] Its your playing style... sleip-hugeass vagabond. astarte-deimos but with a tank. absolution-more towards tank then gank but does both.
Galen Silas Gallente Lucky Hydra Corp SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.04 07:00:00 - [39] I like the versatility of the Eos, it has many purposes and capabilities but I got curious and now I am looking forward to flying my damnation. So I am kinda iffy on it for now. Yes, i love stating my opinion... because people don't like it!
Sandzibarr A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.11.04 09:57:00 - [40] Originally by: Galen Silas I like the versatility of the Eos, it has many purposes and capabilities Not for long...
Lady Gadiva Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.06 11:18:00 - [41] Seriously, who gives a sh!t. All the command ships rock. Command ships > All other ships in Eve. I love the Absolution, it's the only Command Ship this char can fly. But would I fly it solo? Let's say I did and I dropped my web for a point. Okay, so I'm going to kill a Nighthawk. The Sleipnir is going to either kill me or warp away of which there is a 50/50 chance tbh). I'm going to kill a rail Astarte but a blaster Astarte is going to web me and pwn me. There is no best Field Command Ship. They are all awesome.
Lady Gadiva Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.06 11:20:00 - [42] Just give the Abso its 4th mid-slot and we won't have to endure this question any longer.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.06 13:39:00 - [43] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 01/11/2007 22:16:20 Solo: Astarte, Sleipnir, Abso, Nighthawk Small gang: Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso, Nighthawk Large gang: Sleipnir, Abso, Astarte, Nighthawk PvE: Nighthawk, Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso Overall best: Sleipnir When you fall, you fall hard. How is the Minmatar training going Deschenus? Solo, does not exist but Astarte because you can kill your target before the friends come. Small Gang, Absolution. You will not get called primary and still do massive damage. Large Gang, Nighthawk. Lets face it, they are roxorz. PvE, buy a raven, its faster then any of these. In all seriousness, all the command ships are very well balanced, but overall, the Sleph has the weakest tank, for the least damage of the 4. But it can run - like all Minmatar ships. ----
Almarez Setenta Corp Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.06 14:54:00 - [44] Originally by: BludThirst Edited by: BludThirst on 01/11/2007 19:07:34 Okay, so nighthawk is best solo PvE field command. How about the best solo PvP??? And also resons why. Is the astarte going to be hit hard by the drone nerf the way the Eos has been??? People criticize the Nighthawk for its lack of DPS but I'll tell you what, that ship can be set up with the best tank out of all of the field command ships (passive tank nonetheless) making it immune to cap warfare and with fof's it can be immune to EW also. If you really want solo PVP then the Astarte is hands down the best because of the raw damage of blasters and the decently sized drone bay. News flash: Alliance losing members at an astounding rate but it's okay cause I just saved a bunch of money on car insurance by switching to Geiko.
Prevelance Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.11.06 17:38:00 - [45] I think any of the feild command ships can be deady, but some require a tackler to be used to there full potential, specifically the sheild tankers. Don't discount the nighthawks damage when fitted with 3-4 bcu II's and good skills, it can tear through pretty much any battleship as long as the nighthawk isn't primaried the whole fight. And thats with heavy's, heavy assalts on the other hand, would be very nice damage indeed if gank fitted. And also, the sleipnir is versatile, sure it has limited mids, but you dont need many slots for T2 minnie sheild tanks. Yea you can speed fit it to go 4.5k without snakes, but you can also damage/tank fit it and go close range Hail and 3-4 gyro II's with web, and then tell me it cant stack up to the astarte's damage and still tank great. It's all about the pilot/ skill/ fitting
Lorz0r	Posted - 2007.12.09 16:14:00 - [46] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 01/11/2007 22:16:20 Solo: Astarte, Sleipnir, Abso, Nighthawk Small gang: Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso, Nighthawk Large gang: Sleipnir, Abso, Astarte, Nighthawk PvE: Nighthawk, Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso Overall best: Sleipnir When you fall, you fall hard. How is the Minmatar training going Deschenus? Solo, does not exist but Astarte because you can kill your target before the friends come. Small Gang, Absolution. You will not get called primary and still do massive damage. Large Gang, Nighthawk. Lets face it, they are roxorz. PvE, buy a raven, its faster then any of these. In all seriousness, all the command ships are very well balanced, but overall, the Sleph has the weakest tank, for the least damage of the 4. But it can run - like all Minmatar ships. lol what? you would really hope the sleipnir was at least doing more DPS than a nighthawk or there is something seriously wrong. It can be fitted (sacrificing tank as with all things) for some extreme DPS...
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.09 16:21:00 - [47] As has been said before and let me re-iterate: Nighthawk is the most versatile. Longest range, ability to do damage to largest variety of targets, strongest cap warfare immune tank, and FOF's to ignore EW as well. Its consistency is the selling point. That it is the slowest and does the least DPS are the downsides.
Verlaine Glariant Knights of the Flame Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.09 16:40:00 - [48] There is a vast difference of opinions. However, I'd go with Nighthawk with no doubt. Best overall tank and nice DPS. No tracking issues due to missile usage and of course the ubahpowerful Caldari agility bonus (courtesy of CCP). Verlaine Glariant. Tactical Weapons Specialist.
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.09 17:19:00 - [49] Originally by: Temp Boi Vagas get shredded by Sleipnirs. They have the same falloff, therefore they'll both be hitting eachother, except the Sleipnir has an excellent tank, while the vaga simply has a hitpoint buffer. Also, 7 guns > 5 guns; that vaga wouldn't last 30 seconds. well, the poster mentionned tank you until his friends arrive, I would assume that this means orbitting far enought from the sleip to reduce damage with fallof, and also with mwd on to reduce damage with "vaga-like" speed. Sure the vaga won't deal damage, no big deal since it can't really hurt the sleipnir by itself, but it can probably reduce damage enough to tank the sleip until his mates come, which is what the aboveposter suggested. Originally by: Radeberger If you plan to make your alliance combat based, recruit pvpers with mining alts rather than miners with pvp alts[/qu
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.09 17:50:00 - [50] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit When you fall, you fall hard. How is the Minmatar training going Deschenus? Going very well, thank you. Still need to work on my shield tank and nav skills, but it's coming along. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Solo, does not exist I beg to differ, considering I used to solo in my Absolution. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Small Gang, Absolution. You will not get called primary and still do massive damage. Small gangs are best served by ships who can do massive damage at close range while keeping the target scramed and webbed (Astarte) or by ships that can do good damage whilst providing gang links to remain highly mobile (Sleipnir). The Absolution falls in neither categories. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Large Gang, Nighthawk. Lets face it, they are roxorz. Target will be dead before your missiles hit, and the big tank isn't going to be of much help if you're the last one to die (no one primaries NHs). Originally by: Ruah Piskonit PvE, buy a raven, its faster then any of these. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit In all seriousness, all the command ships are very well balanced, but overall, the Sleph has the weakest tank, for the least damage of the 4. But it can run - like all Minmatar ships. Erm, where are you getting your numbers? In a practical setup, the Sleipnir has the second highest damage output (after the Astarte) and the second stongest tank (behing the Nighthawl) AND it's the fastest. Oh, and it can actually fit a gang mod without too much effort. The only thing I don't like about them is that they are ******* expensive. D-F-C recruitment closed
Drezzster The Phoenix Rising	Posted - 2007.12.09 18:10:00 - [51] Edited by: Drezzster on 09/12/2007 18:10:54 Why is everyone saying that soloing in a cs is suicide? Are you all only referring to 0.0? For piracy they are ideal, just because they are so powerful, as long as you pick solo targets...
Vaine Amarr Amarr The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.12.09 20:00:00 - [52] Originally by: Lady Gadiva Seriously, who gives a sh!t. All the command ships rock. Command ships > All other ships in Eve. I love the Absolution, it's the only Command Ship this char can fly. But would I fly it solo? Let's say I did and I dropped my web for a point. Okay, so I'm going to kill a Nighthawk. The Sleipnir is going to either kill me or warp away of which there is a 50/50 chance tbh). I'm going to kill a rail Astarte but a blaster Astarte is going to web me and pwn me. There is no best Field Command Ship. They are all awesome. If you take midslots out of account, the abolution would beat the sleipnir, astarte, and eos up close. Sleipnir wins on longer range combat, aka 15+ km. Trust me, I've done the duels. __________________________ It's great being Amarr, ain't it? O rly?
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.09 20:31:00 - [53] Originally by: Vaine Amarr If you take midslots out of account, the abolution would beat the sleipnir, astarte, and eos up close. I can't see any situation where that might be true (for the Astarte). D-F-C recruitment closed
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.09 20:37:00 - [54] lot of eft warriors in this thread talking about paper matchups with no consideration for ingame performance. first off, all these people saying that a nano sac with two mar's can take out a sleip, its debatable if it could od it when they are both sitting still, but if a sleip tries to run and hoses the nano sac while running the nano sac is gonna be out of cap real fast running two mars and an mwd. In which case it can run away, also you need to have an understanding of how the tank on a sleip works, even with 5 hams you would not have to pulse the shield booster that often to tank that dmg. Whish means the sleips large cap compared to a cruiser sized cap will keep that booster going for a long time. lets also not forget that a nano sleip will run circles around a nano sac that just has two overdrives for its speed.... and finally if you engage near a gate the sleip can by far tank the dmg to deagress and jump through. so the phrase can kill everything it cant run away from holds true.
mallina Caldari Core Contingency	Posted - 2007.12.09 21:16:00 - [55] Edited by: mallina on 09/12/2007 21:17:24 Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Vaine Amarr If you take midslots out of account, the abolution would beat the sleipnir, astarte, and eos up close. I can't see any situation where that might be true (for the Astarte). You'd be suprised. Absolution has a significantly more resiliant tank than the Astarte and is still capable of dealing heavy damage. I've 1v1ed Astartes in my Abso on numerous occasions and I don't even have CS 5. IMO the Astarte is overhyped. It's minimal range and poor speed (particually with armour rigs) leaves it incredibly vunerable to anything that moves faster than it (that also has better range) and is a poor choice for ops outside lowsec. It can't do a thing to speed tankers since it simply can't get in webrange and isn't able to deal any significant damage outside it. I'd even go as far as to say it's the worst Field Command Ship for 0.0 PvP. It has DPS, sure, but what's really the point if it can't be applied? Seriously, I would MUCH rather Abso and Slieps in a gang over Astartes. I suppose the Nighthawk can be useful too if any of their pilots had the guts to put BCUs on the damn thing instead of SPRs. ---
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.09 21:39:00 - [56] I really dont understand how a ship with only 3 mid slots (Absolution) can beat any of the other CS's in a one on one. Ideally you would need MWD,Web,Scram,Cap injector.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.09 23:12:00 - [57] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 01/11/2007 22:16:20 Solo: Astarte, Sleipnir, Abso, Nighthawk Small gang: Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso, Nighthawk Large gang: Sleipnir, Abso, Astarte, Nighthawk PvE: Nighthawk, Sleipnir, Astarte, Abso Overall best: Sleipnir I disagree, For solo, if such a thing did exist in eve, the Astarte is the hands down best because it does the most damage - second is the Sleph because it fits a warp jammer - neither the Nighthawk nor the Absolution should fit a warp jammer - so they don't solo. For Small Gangs - The Astart and Absolution tie in this cagagory - The Astarte because it will kill things, the Absolution because it can cover a large area with crysstals and put out a lot of damage. The Nighthawk comes in third for the same reasons as the Absolution, and FoFs. The last place is the Sleph because while its dps is ok (third best) and its tank is ok (worst of the four), its only redeaming feature is its speed. But its not a vegabond by any means. Ultimatly, it will flee (because it will get primaried) and spend a lot of time keeping itself alive. Large Gang: Absolution is hands down the strongest because its beam setup is so powerful. The Nighthawk come in second because Heavy Missles, the Astart comes in third because its actually an 'ok' rail boat (but its a waste to fit rails) and last is the Slpeh because Arti slephs have too sacrifice too much tank and speed to fit a proper 720HII setup. PvE - Best tank = Best ship. Nighthawk, Absolution, Astarte, Sleph. Ultimatly, the command ships are probably the best balanced ship class in the game. I know that any of them can beat any of the other ones given good skills and good tactics. But the idea that the slpeh is the best is simply a foolish idea, DPS and a very short lived shield tank are its weakness, high speed and the ability to rep a lot of damage for a short time is its strength. The other ships each have their weakness' and strengths. But in a fight where running was not an option, I would pick the Astarte and Absolution because they do the most damage and have a good enough tank to kill the opponent. ----
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.09 23:31:00 - [58] Originally by: mallina You'd be suprised. Absolution has a significantly more resiliant tank than the Astarte and is still capable of dealing heavy damage. I've 1v1ed Astartes in my Abso on numerous occasions and I don't even have CS 5. I've tried it as well, and it ended with getting my ass handed to me. I've also tried it in a Sleip, which results in me getting totally owned if the Astarte gets in web range, or me totally owning the Astarte, to the point where it wasn't even funny, if I manage to keep him at range (speed ftw). Originally by: mallina IMO the Astarte is overhyped. It's minimal range and poor speed (particually with armour rigs) leaves it incredibly vunerable to anything that moves faster than it (that also has better range) and is a poor choice for ops outside lowsec. It can't do a thing to speed tankers since it simply can't get in webrange and isn't able to deal any significant damage outside it. I'd even go as far as to say it's the worst Field Command Ship for 0.0 PvP. It has DPS, sure, but what's really the point if it can't be applied? Seriously, I would MUCH rather Abso and Slieps in a gang over Astartes. I suppose the Nighthawk can be useful too if any of their pilots had the guts to put BCUs on the damn thing instead of SPRs. I completely agree with this part of your post. Astarte are low sec solo machines, but Absos, and especially Sleipnirs, are much better for 0.0 ops. D-F-C recruitment closed
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.09 23:52:00 - [59] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit I disagree, For solo, if such a thing did exist in eve, the Astarte is the hands down best because it does the most damage - second is the Sleph because it fits a warp jammer - neither the Nighthawk nor the Absolution should fit a warp jammer - so they don't solo. Erm, I've soloed in my Absolution before. It's certainly not ideal a ship to do so, but it IS feasible. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit For Small Gangs - The Astart and Absolution tie in this cagagory - The Astarte because it will kill things, the Absolution because it can cover a large area with crysstals and put out a lot of damage. The Nighthawk comes in third for the same reasons as the Absolution, and FoFs. The last place is the Sleph because while its dps is ok (third best) and its tank is ok (worst of the four), its only redeaming feature is its speed. But its not a vegabond by any means. Ultimatly, it will flee (because it will get primaried) and spend a lot of time keeping itself alive. Hmm, you may be right that the Astarte is best for small gangs, since it can fit a web and point, both very useful to a small gang. However, Sleipnir comes second because a) it does more damage than the Abso (run the numbers), b) its speed allows it to get out of dodge when you get blobbed and c) it can fit a gang link easily, which is always a boon for small gangs. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Large Gang: Absolution is hands down the strongest because its beam setup is so powerful. The Nighthawk come in second because Heavy Missles, the Astart comes in third because its actually an 'ok' rail boat (but its a waste to fit rails) and last is the Slpeh because Arti slephs have too sacrifice too much tank and speed to fit a proper 720HII setup. Erm, all of this is assuming you use long range weapons, and while I could understand for the Nighthawk and Astarte, there's really no reason to do so with the Abso and Sleipnir. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit PvE - Best tank = Best ship. Nighthawk, Absolution, Astarte, Sleph. Absolution is only worth a damn in Sansha/Blood missions, while the Slep can switch ammo to the proper damage types. That alone takes it above the Abso. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Ultimatly, the command ships are probably the best balanced ship class in the game. I know that any of them can beat any of the other ones given good skills and good tactics. But the idea that the slpeh is the best is simply a foolish idea, DPS and a very short lived shield tank are its weakness, high speed and the ability to rep a lot of damage for a short time is its strength. The other ships each have their weakness' and strengths. But in a fight where running was not an option, I would pick the Astarte and Absolution because they do the most damage and have a good enough tank to kill the opponent. Again, Sleipnir does more damage than the Abso. And its burst tank is better, which is not a bad thing. D-F-C recruitment closed
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.09 23:55:00 - [60] Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/12/2007 23:56:41 Nighthawk has two main problems - gimped PG and the fact that it does only slightly more DPS than a Drake, when both are gank-fit. As such, I can't see the point of it in pvp - it can't fit a gang mod without multiple T2 RCUs, and Drake does almost as much damage - and can tackle - for a fraction of the price.
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.10 00:51:00 - [61] Edited by: J Valkor on 10/12/2007 00:51:12 Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/12/2007 23:56:41 Nighthawk has two main problems - gimped PG and the fact that it does only slightly more DPS than a Drake, when both are gank-fit. As such, I can't see the point of it in pvp - it can't fit a gang mod without multiple T2 RCUs, and Drake does almost as much damage - and can tackle - for a fraction of the price. The difference between a Drake and a Nighthawk is that a Nighthawk is better than the Drake on every conceivable level in exchange for having higher skill requirements and a higher price tag. But you probably have never flown a Nighthawk, nor ever plan to. That is fine. More Drakes to kill :P
Verlaine Glariant Knights of the Flame Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.10 02:06:00 - [62] Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 09/12/2007 23:56:41 Nighthawk has two main problems - gimped PG and the fact that it does only slightly more DPS than a Drake, when both are gank-fit. As such, I can't see the point of it in pvp - it can't fit a gang mod without multiple T2 RCUs, and Drake does almost as much damage - and can tackle - for a fraction of the price. Probably never flown a Nighthawk. It's alright. Not anyone is suitable for it. Verlaine Glariant. Tactical Weapons Specialist.
Gavri The Republican Guard Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.12.10 05:48:00 - [63] On Armageddon Day, I tested an astarte versus an absolution, and it was basically a no contest win for the abso. Astarte can't exactly kite an abso, and the abso can tank the astarte's damage a lot better than the astarte can tank the abso's damage. I capped out long before teh abso got anywhere close to running out of cap charges. The lesson I learned from that duel was that first, fighting another cs solo generally isn't a good idea, and second, attempting to solo a abso with an astarte is a very risky proposition. :P
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.10 06:48:00 - [64] I've been running the numbers with a 220VII (Barrage) and 3 gyros, I'm getting 400 or so DPS (a little less), with a full rack of HPLIIs (Scorch) I'm hitting 600 DPS (a little less) - now considering that optimal on 220VIIs is 3k or so, and Optimal on HPL with Scorch is 15k. Now yes, falloff is fantastic on a Sleph especially with Barrage - but its always in Falloff (a sleph at 3k means something went wrong) while the lasers are always in optimal (since thats the style of play). . .now I have not considered resistances but still, I don't see the sleph as doing more damage. . . ----
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.10 09:03:00 - [65] Edited by: Gypsio III on 10/12/2007 09:03:47 Verlaine and J Valkor - I'd be interested to see your NH fits, thanks.
Wardeneo	Posted - 2007.12.10 09:20:00 - [66] so what about a vulture? i have herd its shield tank is as good if not better than a slep wardeneo
Niestrenna	Posted - 2007.12.10 23:39:00 - [67] vulture has a fantastic tank indeed, but the damage potential of a wet paper toilet roll.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:03:00 - [68] Originally by: Gavri On Armageddon Day, I tested an astarte versus an absolution, and it was basically a no contest win for the abso. Astarte can't exactly kite an abso, and the abso can tank the astarte's damage a lot better than the astarte can tank the abso's damage. I capped out long before teh abso got anywhere close to running out of cap charges. The lesson I learned from that duel was that first, fighting another cs solo generally isn't a good idea, and second, attempting to solo a abso with an astarte is a very risky proposition. :P properly skilled and fitted, an abso can stand 1v1 against any of the other Command Ships. I would argue tho, that the other Command ships are better at lower skills. Plus speed is huge in 0.0....abso is a beast with web, scram, and injector in its meds...but getting stuck nullifies any tank. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Distrans n0thing Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:04:00 - [69] Sleipnir sucks 4ss for the buck
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:05:00 - [70] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit I've been running the numbers with a 220VII (Barrage) and 3 gyros, I'm getting 400 or so DPS (a little less), with a full rack of HPLIIs (Scorch) I'm hitting 600 DPS (a little less) - now considering that optimal on 220VIIs is 3k or so, and Optimal on HPL with Scorch is 15k. Now yes, falloff is fantastic on a Sleph especially with Barrage - but its always in Falloff (a sleph at 3k means something went wrong) while the lasers are always in optimal (since thats the style of play). . .now I have not considered resistances but still, I don't see the sleph as doing more damage. . . fighting an sleip is a risky proposition for an abso, easiest the toughest of the command ships for the abso to face. This is mainly due to the sleips golden minnie t2 shield resists. And while the abso is stuck doing EM damage, the sleip is not limited to barrage, and while phased plasma wont have the range, it IS an option to consider....especially if the abso is a 0.0 fitted setup with a mwd and no web. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Distrans Sleipnir sucks 4ss for the buck only real arguement against the sleip is its price....but its mix of great damage of varying type, awesome tanking potential (if even for a short time) and best in class speed and agility...the sleip is not to be underestimated. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Niffetin Gallente CONsordium Infinate	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:16:00 - [72] Absolution, Sleipnir. Although I shouldnt say Absolution, it might prevent the "needed" Amarr Boost WTS: Armageddon / Void L / Mobile Large Warp Disruptor
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:19:00 - [73] Originally by: Gavri On Armageddon Day, I tested an astarte versus an absolution, and it was basically a no contest win for the abso. Astarte can't exactly kite an abso, and the abso can tank the astarte's damage a lot better than the astarte can tank the abso's damage. I capped out long before teh abso got anywhere close to running out of cap charges. The lesson I learned from that duel was that first, fighting another cs solo generally isn't a good idea, and second, attempting to solo a abso with an astarte is a very risky proposition. :P Hmm, had you gotten in web range, he would have been a dead Abso. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit I've been running the numbers with a 220VII (Barrage) and 3 gyros, I'm getting 400 or so DPS (a little less), with a full rack of HPLIIs (Scorch) I'm hitting 600 DPS (a little less) - now considering that optimal on 220VIIs is 3k or so, and Optimal on HPL with Scorch is 15k. Now yes, falloff is fantastic on a Sleph especially with Barrage - but its always in Falloff (a sleph at 3k means something went wrong) while the lasers are always in optimal (since thats the style of play). . .now I have not considered resistances but still, I don't see the sleph as doing more damage. . . Ok: 1) Even with 3 HS II, you only do 548 DPS with max skills with Scorch loaded. Add to that 5x Hobgoblin IIs and you get 647 DPS with max skills. In theory, you could also add a missile launcher to that, but that means you are either running only 1 med rep, or don't have a cap booster, and that's just silly. Also, lol at fitting 3 HS on an Abso. A practical Abso setup will only have 2 HS, which will give you 586 DPS (drones included) 2) You generally don't fit 220s on a Sleipnir; you fit 425s. With 3x Gyros (not a problem to fit since it's a shield tank), you get 574 DPS with max skills. Add to that 3x Hammerhead IIs and 2x Hobgoblins, you get 709 DPS, which is already more than the Abso. Than you can easily add a missile launcher on top of that. Now granted, the Sleip will be in falloff. On the other hand, it won't have a tracking problem, fitting 3 damage mods isn't impractical, and its not doing the worst damage type in game. Now when you move to close range ammo (for carrier ganking, for example), the difference becomes even more marked. There you go. D-F-C recruitment closed
Distrans n0thing Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:20:00 - [74] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn only real arguement against the sleip is its price....but its mix of great damage of varying type, awesome tanking potential (if even for a short time) and best in class speed and agility...the sleip is not to be underestimated. Nope. Been quite a bit on testserver with this one against all the other CS, they outtank You, they web, they kill You (ok caldari only outtank you but not funny either). Speed tanking is not an option as it maybe fast for a BC but it's still slow and running a XL-booster melts your cap in no time even boosted. Damage is sub-par no matter which type. I prefer a BS or a Vaga anyday, sticking to Claymore with mods for the gang-thing.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 00:32:00 - [75] Originally by: Distrans Nope. Been quite a bit on testserver with this one against all the other CS, they outtank You, they web, they kill You (ok caldari only outtank you but not funny either). Speed tanking is not an option as it maybe fast for a BC but it's still slow and running a XL-booster melts your cap in no time even boosted. Damage is sub-par no matter which type. I prefer a BS or a Vaga anyday, sticking to Claymore with mods for the gang-thing. *******s, tbh. Yeah, you won't kill a Nighthawk any day soon, but neither will it kill you. Astarte you just need to orbit at 20 and he's dead meat. Absos can't fit a web, a point, a cap booster and a MWD all at the same time, so if he's webbing you, try to warp out. if you can't warp out, nav away (you'll still be faster than him if you are running your MWD). If he's keeping up, then he'll soon be dead cause he won't be able to run his MWD, guns and rep without a cap booster. D-F-C recruitment closed
Distrans n0thing Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.11 01:17:00 - [76] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus *****s, tbh. Yeah, you won't kill a Nighthawk any day soon, but neither will it kill you. Astarte you just need to orbit at 20 and he's dead meat. Absos can't fit a web, a point, a cap booster and a MWD all at the same time, so if he's webbing you, try to warp out. if you can't warp out, nav away (you'll still be faster than him if you are running your MWD). If he's keeping up, then he'll soon be dead cause he won't be able to run his MWD, guns and rep without a cap booster. *****s is to claim to be able to steer a BC in the tight between 15-20km against the same class. Means he either aligns hits mwd and warps off or approaches hits mwd webs and kills you (more likely). And yes abviously against Absolution You can try to warp out, fun stuff.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 01:25:00 - [77] Originally by: Distrans *******s is to claim to be able to steer a BC in the tight between 15-20km against the same class. Means he either aligns hits mwd and warps off or approaches hits mwd webs and kills you (more likely). Then there's something wrong with your fit, cause I do it quite easily. D-F-C recruitment closed
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.12.11 03:22:00 - [78] A Sleipnir can die easily to someone who heat-pulses their MWD and web at the same time, since the overview doesn't update fast enough and an overheated MWD Astarte would be moving faster than the Sleipnir. It's a nice ship but it's much less forgiving than a Vagabond. The XL tank variant caps out very quickly as well.
Philipius Maximus DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2007.12.11 03:53:00 - [79] IMO, the Absolution is the best CS for its price. You can fit one with T2 mods and perform brilliantly. For solo, go Astarte. For gang, go Abso or Sleip. If I had another race's CS to fly, it would be the Sleip, hands down. Phil
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.11 05:36:00 - [80] Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 11/12/2007 05:37:31 ok fair enough, but with 425IIs, you need to be within 11km in order to outdamage (on pure unresisted numbers - just based on chance to hit with same ammo damage with tracking/falloff for Barrage and scorch calculated) an absolution. And this is just slightly (we are talking 8%) more damage after which the Absolution passes the Sleph in damage and at 17km hits more, and does over 50% more damage (again without resistances calculated) on target at 22km. They meet again at 34k after which the Absolution drops to 0 damage while the Sleph misses an ungodly ammount and does practically no damage. Now I don't fit 3HSIIs on my Absolution, I fit 2, and I can perma-run 2 MARIIs with considerably higher resists then a sleph while fireing all my guns and running a webber or warp disruptor II. . .now with 2 Auxillary Nano Pumps (and yes I have 'max skills' because I'm PIE) I have an ungodly more powerful tank. The Sleph on the other hand can run a large dread gurista shield rep (on my alt) for 11 mins as long as I have cap charges and thats with the MWD turned off. . . So while the Sleph can run (I get 1300km/m) from some things (not inties or vegas which are quite common) it cannot sustain its tank (11 mins is a lot granted) especially with a MWD (which is a burst thing anyway - but it eats cap like a explitive) and its dps is lower at BC/CS ranges which I consider to be 15km+. . . Now I know you trained for it, and while I can see the Vega as something people would train for just because the idea of a nano Zelot does not appea. . .when it comes to CSs, the Absolution is hands down a superior gang ship. And yes, this is from experience in combat with both of them. Now Des, tell me, now that you have both in your hangar - which do you find yourself taking out more and why - and saying "Absol because its cheaper' is cheating. ----
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 12:47:00 - [81] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 11/12/2007 05:37:31 ok fair enough, but with 425IIs, you need to be within 11km in order to outdamage (on pure unresisted numbers - just based on chance to hit with same ammo damage with tracking/falloff for Barrage and scorch calculated) an absolution. And this is just slightly (we are talking 8%) more damage after which the Absolution passes the Sleph in damage and at 17km hits more, and does over 50% more damage (again without resistances calculated) on target at 22km. They meet again at 34k after which the Absolution drops to 0 damage while the Sleph misses an ungodly ammount and does practically no damage. You just can't ignore resists. Base DPS figures are only good for e-peen boosts. And actual DPS is why the Sleip does better damage, even in falloff (up to a point, I suppose, but I'm not sure how one would go about calculating that). Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Now I don't fit 3HSIIs on my Absolution, I fit 2, and I can perma-run 2 MARIIs with considerably higher resists then a sleph while fireing all my guns and running a webber or warp disruptor II. . .now with 2 Auxillary Nano Pumps (and yes I have 'max skills' because I'm PIE) I have an ungodly more powerful tank. The Sleph on the other hand can run a large dread gurista shield rep (on my alt) for 11 mins as long as I have cap charges and thats with the MWD turned off. . . So while the Sleph can run (I get 1300km/m) from some things (not inties or vegas which are quite common) it cannot sustain its tank (11 mins is a lot granted) especially with a MWD (which is a burst thing anyway - but it eats cap like a explitive) and its dps is lower at BC/CS ranges which I consider to be 15km+. . . Thing is, "burst" tanks aren't bad, per se. Far from it. The Sleip's tank is better for when you need to deagress and jump through when called primary (better "reinforced" tank than the Abso's). Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Now I know you trained for it, and while I can see the Vega as something people would train for just because the idea of a nano Zelot does not appea. . .when it comes to CSs, the Absolution is hands down a superior gang ship. And yes, this is from experience in combat with both of them. I disagree. Aside from the reasons already stated, you can't credibly fit a gang link on an Abso without gimping your DPS, your tank or your speed, while you can fit a gang link easily on a Sleip just by downgrading from 425s to 220s, which only lowers your DPS slightly (but gives you better tracking at the same time). Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Now Des, tell me, now that you have both in your hangar - which do you find yourself taking out more and why - and saying "Absol because its cheaper' is cheating. The Sleipnir: Faster, more agile, more actual DPS at most ranges, can fit a gang link, better burst tank. In fact, I basically haven't used my Abso in months now. D-F-C recruitment closed
Malaphar Making Our Way to Stars Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.11 14:19:00 - [82] Absolution is IMHO by far the deadliest FCS out there : High Slots = 6 x Heavy Pulses II w/TS or DB or Amarr Navy Multifreq.M Med Slots = 1 x 10MN MWD II ; 1 x Stasis Webber II ; 1 x Cap Booster w/800s Note : can switch Webber for a Tracking Disruptor II w/Track Speed Disruptor script in case of Minmatar/Gallente CS Low Slots : 2 x TS/DB Medium Armor repairer ; 2 x TS/DB Heat Sinks ; 3 x TS/DB/Amarr Navy EANMs Rigs : 2 x Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones : 2 x Webifier Drones or 1 x Webber + 1 x ECM drones Highlights : Max Speed = around 1300-1400 m/s = more than enough to get in optimal of ANY CS/BS/BC extremly fast! Rezistances (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm) = 86 / 90 / 92 / 83 Average RAW DPS = 890 Can sustain everything on for almost 15 mins , with only 1 repper running Cap never ends!! Repairs around 1000 armor every 7 secs = roughly 145 per sec,meaning RAW DPS tanked as follows (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm) : 891 / 1305 / 1668 / 708 or roughly 1039 ANY RAW DPS Beat that!
E Vile Fifth Exiled Legion SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:17:00 - [83] Speaking dps Can I get someone to post numbers to compair. 1. max skills with 2 dmg mods in lows (bcu, mag stab ex..) 2. no dmg mods other then skills. To me the nighthawk is way lower then the others when it comes to dps. Would be nice to have a 7th launcher to bring it up to par with the others. Don't tell me the nighthawks tank is better and thats the reason because you can dedicate all meds and lows in the others and tank just as well. I've seen all commands tank like madmen.
Jeetah	Posted - 2007.12.11 15:18:00 - [84] Originally by: Riho i can fly sleip and astarte.... both are great... but id go whit absolution tho... VERY uber ship :) Gotcha! Nerf amarr.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 16:14:00 - [85] Originally by: Malaphar Highlights : Max Speed = around 1300-1400 m/s = more than enough to get in optimal of ANY CS/BS/BC extremly fast! Rezistances (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm) = 86 / 90 / 92 / 83 Average RAW DPS = 890 Can sustain everything on for almost 15 mins , with only 1 repper running Cap never ends!! Repairs around 1000 armor every 7 secs = roughly 145 per sec,meaning RAW DPS tanked as follows (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm) : 891 / 1305 / 1668 / 708 or roughly 1039 ANY RAW DPS Ok, first of all, your numbers are all wrong: Top speed: 1233 m/s Resistances (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm) = 86 / 84 / 89 / 77 Raw DPS: 637 Can sustain everything for 2m54s Repairs exactly 720 armour every 9 secs = exactly 80 per sec, which means that the DPS you can tank is much lower than what you posted (CBA to actually do the math right now). Oh, and you only have room for 1 Web Drone on the Abso. Originally by: Malaphar Beat that! Ok: Sleipnir 7x 425 II w/ Republic Fleet EMP (I'd use Hail normaly, but you used faction ammo, so I'll do the same) 1x HAM II w/ Caldary Navy Assault Missiles 1x 10MN MWD II 1x DG XL SB 1x Cap Booster w/800s 2x DG Invuln II 1x DCU II 3x Republic Fleet Gyros 1x PDS II 1x Anti-Kinetic Screen Solidifier 1x Core Defence Operational Solidifier 1x Web drone, 3x light ECM drones Max Speed: 1422m/s Resistances (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm): 86/81/85/81 Raw DPS: 734 DPS Can only sustain everything for 33s, but that's shield tanks for you. Repairs 825 Shields every 3.4 seconds = 242 shields/s. So yeah, I got ya beat on everything but sustainability. D-F-C recruitment closed
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:20:00 - [86] Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 11/12/2007 20:24:01 ell, you must be a better sleph pilot then most then, because every fight against one I have had (now there is a gang for both sides being called in. . .so its really not 'science') has been either the sleph runs or the tacklers get him and he dies. I have never had a sleph or any CS (expept a very powerful Astart) overpower my duel MARII with Aux nano pump tank - I rep too much and I just keep it on. . . I suppose its style of play really. . .but the Absolution is a real monster in a gang, especially since I am usually flying with bigger ships, not smaller ones. I am not say byy any stretch that the sleph is an inferior ship, I am simply stating that there is a trade off going on here. ----
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:39:00 - [87] Edited by: Deschenus Maximus on 11/12/2007 20:44:10 Originally by: Ruah Piskonit ell, you must be a better sleph pilot then most then, because every fight against one I have had (now there is a gang for both sides being called in. . .so its really not 'science') has been either the sleph runs or the tacklers get him and he dies. I have never had a sleph or any CS (expept a very powerful Astart) overpower my duel MARII with Aux nano pump tank - I rep too much and I just keep it on. . . I'm not the greatest pilot ever, but I know enough to usually stay alive. The thing with an Abso vs Sleip fight is that the Abso hits almost exclusively the Sleip's highest resist when in Scorch range, whilst the Sleip will be hitting the highest resist, but also the second lowest. Basically, it's going to end up a long fight, but if you're careful, you should win in the end, because an Abso cannot run guns + dual rep without cap charges, whilst the Sleip only needs to cycle his SB enough to keep up with damage, and occasionaly his MWD (to maintain 20km orbit), and his guns will keep going without cap. And failing that, as you said, it's usually possible to just run away. Originally by: Ruah Piskonit I suppose its style of play really. . .but the Absolution is a real monster in a gang, especially since I am usually flying with bigger ships, not smaller ones. There's one area where the Abso totally has the Sleip beat, and thats as a heavy support in large fleets (plates + resist bonus = win). Thing is: do you really want to use a 200M uninsurable ship in a laggy fleet fight?* The way I see it, the Abso needs a 7th turret (Amarr should never be outdamaged by Minnie, never ever), and the EM damage issue really, really, REALLY needs to get sorted out ASAFP. Aside from that, a 4th med wouldn't hurt, but I could live without it if the other 2 aforementionned points are fixed. *Of the 5 Absolutions I lost, 4 of them were lost in fleet fights IIRC... the 5th was lost when I decided that I was going to take down a Nyx on my own... epic fail. D-F-C recruitment closed
Distrans n0thing Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:51:00 - [88] someone turn off that troll with the long posts and the windshield
Distrans n0thing Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:12:00 - [89] You make one wonna train Amarr BC to 5 just to hand it over to You and your fancy faction fit even with AC fitted to an Absolution.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:13:00 - [90] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus The way I see it, the Abso needs a 7th turret (Amarr should never be outdamaged by Minnie, never ever), and the EM damage issue really, really, REALLY needs to get sorted out ASAFP. QFT! Why a quicker, more versatile races outdamages a 1-dimensional races is something I will never, ever get. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:15:00 - [91] Originally by: Distrans You make one wonna train Amarr BC to 5 just to hand it over to You and your fancy faction fit even with AC fitted to an Absolution. Anyone wanna translate that nonsense for me? D-F-C recruitment closed
Distrans n0thing Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:18:00 - [92] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Distrans You make one wonna train Amarr BC to 5 just to hand it over to You and your fancy faction fit even with AC fitted to an Absolution. Anyone wanna translate that nonsense for me? Keep screaming
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:19:00 - [93] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Distrans You make one wonna train Amarr BC to 5 just to hand it over to You and your fancy faction fit even with AC fitted to an Absolution. Anyone wanna translate that nonsense for me? He wants to train BC 5, afterwhich he will buy a absolution fitted with ACs and then give it to you. Not sure if that means he likes you or not though. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:19:00 - [94] Originally by: Distrans Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Distrans You make one wonna train Amarr BC to 5 just to hand it over to You and your fancy faction fit even with AC fitted to an Absolution. Anyone wanna translate that nonsense for me? Keep screaming Riiiiight... D-F-C recruitment closed
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:20:00 - [95] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Distrans You make one wonna train Amarr BC to 5 just to hand it over to You and your fancy faction fit even with AC fitted to an Absolution. Anyone wanna translate that nonsense for me? He wants to train BC 5, afterwhich he will buy a absolution fitted with ACs and then give it to you. Not sure if that means he likes you or not though. Why would he need to train BC 5 first though? D-F-C recruitment closed
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:22:00 - [96] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Distrans You make one wonna train Amarr BC to 5 just to hand it over to You and your fancy faction fit even with AC fitted to an Absolution. Anyone wanna translate that nonsense for me? He wants to train BC 5, afterwhich he will buy a absolution fitted with ACs and then give it to you. Not sure if that means he likes you or not though. Why would he need to train BC 5 first though? Delivery. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:23:00 - [97] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Distrans You make one wonna train Amarr BC to 5 just to hand it over to You and your fancy faction fit even with AC fitted to an Absolution. Anyone wanna translate that nonsense for me? He wants to train BC 5, afterwhich he will buy a absolution fitted with ACs and then give it to you. Not sure if that means he likes you or not though. Why would he need to train BC 5 first though? Delivery. Ah! Fair enough. Well, I will gladly accept any gift in form of Absolutions, wether fitted with ACs or Lasers (would prefer with lasers, but I can buy them and use the ACs on a Minnie ship). D-F-C recruitment closed
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:25:00 - [98] Originally by: VJ Maverick Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 21:36:46 Note that this is 136.5 DPS at OPTIMAL. You won't be at optimal. You will be into falloff and do substantially less than this. EDIT: What do you mean the "missiles won't hit?" Nano-sac is faster than you, that means it can web you. A Sleipnir's fall off is quite extensive. Thus a Sleipnir can hit the Sac outside of the Sac's HAM's. And the closer the Sac comes, the more damage the Sleipnir does. Furthermore, a nano-sac compromises its tank, whereas a nano-sleipnir does not. That's why in real world practical applications, the Sleipnir will be faster than the sac, and if it isn't, then the Sac's tank will not be able to hold up to the Sleip's DPS where as the Sleip's will easily tank 5 HAM's. You two, get on Sisi and test it out. Then continue talking... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amarr - getting screwed since 2005.
Gavri The Republican Guard Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:27:00 - [99] Deschenus Maximus, that test I did was a static one, I had web on him and was at my optimal. He won hands down, truly no contest. His armor did not drop below 70% the entire fight and my damage on him was ravaged by his high resists. Astarte is a good gunboat, but in 1v1s against other cs is a gamble... This excludes noobish cs pilots, ofc. Moral of the story, don't solo a cs, bring friends :)
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.11 21:34:00 - [100] Originally by: Gavri Deschenus Maximus, that test I did was a static one, I had web on him and was at my optimal. He won hands down, truly no contest. His armor did not drop below 70% the entire fight and my damage on him was ravaged by his high resists. Astarte is a good gunboat, but in 1v1s against other cs is a gamble... This excludes noobish cs pilots, ofc. Moral of the story, don't solo a cs, bring friends :) I'd be interested to know what his fit was, and what yours was. When I tried it, I got beaten so badly it wasn't even funny. D-F-C recruitment closed
Gavri The Republican Guard Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.12.11 22:17:00 - [101] Unfortunately, I completely neglected to ask him what his setup was Mine was standard ion blaster, cap injected, dual repper setup. I think I have to agree with a previous poster that the other cs might be more forgiving than abso (and damnation?) at lower skill levels (ie. not max). That would explain why at high skills levels, an abso rapes astarte but not at common skill levels...
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:37:00 - [102] Originally by: Gavri Unfortunately, I completely neglected to ask him what his setup was Mine was standard ion blaster, cap injected, dual repper setup. I think I have to agree with a previous poster that the other cs might be more forgiving than abso (and damnation?) at lower skill levels (ie. not max). That would explain why at high skills levels, an abso rapes astarte but not at common skill levels... Thats true for almost all Amarr ships, its just maddening how long I spend training the 'little things' to 5 (including CS5) just so I can stand toe to toe. In the end though, its more about piloting skills, I usually know within the first 30 seconds how a fight will go. On a side note though, i will say the Damnation is a real pleasure to fly. . .the resists are better and it eliminates a lot of the DPS issues Laser Boats suffer from. I agree with Des though, while I am not a whiner or a 'Buff Amarr' spam fan, An Amarr gun boat should never be outdamaged by a Mini boat - ever. I suppose I am paying off bad Karma from all those fun nights in a Gankadon or something. . .but I really feel that with the Absolution, I have a chance to beat most anything. . .and CSs are the only ship class I feel that way about regarding Amarr. . . Sorry for the wall of text. ----
Malaphar Making Our Way to Stars Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:16:00 - [103] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Malaphar Highlights : Max Speed = around 1300-1400 m/s = more than enough to get in optimal of ANY CS/BS/BC extremly fast! Rezistances (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm) = 86 / 90 / 92 / 83 Average RAW DPS = 890 Can sustain everything on for almost 15 mins , with only 1 repper running Cap never ends!! Repairs around 1000 armor every 7 secs = roughly 145 per sec,meaning RAW DPS tanked as follows (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm) : 891 / 1305 / 1668 / 708 or roughly 1039 ANY RAW DPS Ok, first of all, your numbers are all wrong: Top speed: 1233 m/s Resistances (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm) = 86 / 84 / 89 / 77 Raw DPS: 637 Can sustain everything for 2m54s Repairs exactly 720 armour every 9 secs = exactly 80 per sec, which means that the DPS you can tank is much lower than what you posted (CBA to actually do the math right now). Oh, and you only have room for 1 Web Drone on the Abso. Originally by: Malaphar Beat that! Ok: Sleipnir 7x 425 II w/ Republic Fleet EMP (I'd use Hail normaly, but you used faction ammo, so I'll do the same) 1x HAM II w/ Caldary Navy Assault Missiles 1x 10MN MWD II 1x DG XL SB 1x Cap Booster w/800s 2x DG Invuln II 1x DCU II 3x Republic Fleet Gyros 1x PDS II 1x Anti-Kinetic Screen Solidifier 1x Core Defence Operational Solidifier 1x Web drone, 3x light ECM drones Max Speed: 1422m/s Resistances (EM/Kin/Expl/Therm): 86/81/85/81 Raw DPS: 734 DPS Can only sustain everything for 33s, but that's shield tanks for you. Repairs 825 Shields every 3.4 seconds = 242 shields/s. So yeah, I got ya beat on everything but sustainability. I have to admit I missed a few specs in my original thread, but that was because I hate long posts! Now I have to do such a long post (due to the quoting) : For 890 RAW DPS , please add the implants : +5% Damage to Medium Energy Turrets ; +5% Damage to all energy Turrets ; +5% Rate of Fire OR + 5% Tracking Speed Accuracy (don't recall exactly) implant. For resistance calculations make sure you take in consideration Level 5 Command Ships , level 5 all Armor rezistance compensations , Level 5 Armor Warfare Specialist (+2% armor resists per level) applicable to 1-man gang if Wing Commander/Fleet Commander/ Squad Commander skill learnt. Armor Repaired : please take into consideration the 2 necessary implant for armor repair time reduction and amount increasing and you will reach my numbers.Also make sure you calculated Repair Systems at level 5. And one last thing : please read my specified crystals for damage! Only a beginner who thinks T2 is always better would fit Scorch or Conflagration crystals.Scorch and Conflagration crystals KILL your turrets Tracking Speed Accuracy to half or with 25%! This means your drop your chances to hit by 25% or even 50%...and we surely do not want that! At this point I can say that there is NO FCS out there that would pose a significant threat to a such fitted Absolution! JMHO
Eiskalt Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:13:00 - [104] Still Sleipnir, then Astarte. Btw I am always amused, that a lot of people claim the Abso has an extreme tank. Especially "the Astarte needs to do more Damage, because the Abso has a much better tank!". I wonder if any of these guys ever checked the tanking abilities of both ships. With pretty standard T2 setups thee Astarte does more raw dps AND has a slightly (almost equal though) BETTER tank than the abso (all skills 5). And it¦s more mobile... and carries more 800s charges. ;) I wonder why the Astarte costs less in Jita :p No amount of balancing can fix playing like a moron!
E Vile Fifth Exiled Legion SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 16:41:00 - [105] Speaking dps Can I get someone to post numbers to compair. 1. max skills with 2 dmg mods in lows (bcu, mag stab ex..) 2. no dmg mods other then skills. To me the nighthawk is way lower then the others when it comes to dps. Would be nice to have a 7th launcher to bring it up to par with the others. Don't tell me the nighthawks tank is better and thats the reason because you can dedicate all meds and lows in the others and tank just as well. I've seen all commands tank like madmen.
Eiskalt Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.12 17:24:00 - [106] Edited by: Eiskalt on 12/12/2007 17:25:58 Edited by: Eiskalt on 12/12/2007 17:25:21 Btw I forgot to add some numbers... I am talking about pretty standard dual rep setups on Absolution and Astarte. Dual Rep + Eanm2 + DC + specific active hardener for both. Absolution (2 heat sinks): 710 dps, 525 tank Astarte (1 mag stab): 762 dps, 542 tank Faction Ammo for both. Range: Absolution: 7.5 + 5 Astarte: 1.9 + 7.5 (ions) (2.3 + 9.4 on 2 neutrons) So they are nearly equap on those numbers. The Advantage of the Absolution is 23+5 Range with scorch (4.7 + 9.4 / 5.6 + 12 for the Astarte with Null)... more flexibility and a med nos/neut. The Astarte is much more mobile though (MWD vs no speed mod), slightly more cargo for 800s, more damage and even slightly better tank. Forgot to ask for a standard Sleipnir setup... with 3 gyros and X-Large Tank you get 750 dps, 744 tank (with CL-5 because of CPU/grid, faction possible of course) (not substainable for long even with a booster. With booster and cap at zero: 530 substainable). 1.5 + 15 Range with faction EMP. No Speed setup, but no Rigs fitted and one empty high slot and one empty low slot. So probably still enough room for speed as well. ;) No amount of balancing can fix playing like a moron!
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.12 18:16:00 - [107] I would say there have been many valid arguments posted by people with better experience than me on the subject. However, I'd lean towards the NH in terms of it's role. It has already been pointed out that the NH is virtually immune to cap and ewar if fitted with passive tank and it is generally one of the last things targeted thanks to it's relatively low direct threat profile (i.e. removing one from the fleet does not directly decrease fleet damage much for the time expended doing so). This leave the NH free to offer up the one thing command ships are supposed to do - Link Warfare. All of the command ships are awesome, and some do the non support roles better than others. The NH however excells in anti-drone work and living long enough for it's link warfare mods to give your fleet that edge long enough to pull your bacon outta the fire.
AnKahn Caldari Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:05:00 - [108] The Chicken and the Egg thread. If my gang has a few CS in it (well, the people I know that fly them well, not Ebay CS pilots) and a few BS also, then I'm really sure the enemy will shoot me last in my poor Drake. Flying a CS solo is moronic. Almost like mining in a carrier. What do you guys do, cross your fingers every time you jump thru a gate?
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:14:00 - [109] Originally by: AnKahn The Chicken and the Egg thread. If my gang has a few CS in it (well, the people I know that fly them well, not Ebay CS pilots) and a few BS also, then I'm really sure the enemy will shoot me last in my poor Drake. Flying a CS solo is moronic. Almost like mining in a carrier. What do you guys do, cross your fingers every time you jump thru a gate? I hold a wake in advance in order to mourn the future loss my ship. . .
Karash Amerius Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:41:00 - [110] From my experience any Minnie T2 ship generally owns an Amarr T2 ship. The natural resists are really problematic. The Sac is one of the first ships to get around this. "Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog
E Vile Fifth Exiled Legion SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 21:19:00 - [111] Edited by: E Vile on 12/12/2007 21:20:34 Originally by: Derek Sigres I would say there have been many valid arguments posted by people with better experience than me on the subject. However, I'd lean towards the NH in terms of it's role. It has already been pointed out that the NH is virtually immune to cap and ewar if fitted with passive tank and it is generally one of the last things targeted thanks to it's relatively low direct threat profile (i.e. removing one from the fleet does not directly decrease fleet damage much for the time expended doing so). This leave the NH free to offer up the one thing command ships are supposed to do - Link Warfare. All of the command ships are awesome, and some do the non support roles better than others. The NH however excells in anti-drone work and living long enough for it's link warfare mods to give your fleet that edge long enough to pull your bacon outta the fire. No the Nighthawk sucks for war links. It's got a big lack of powergrid. The Vulture is what you want to fill that role. 3 links. Lots of grid. Even better tank. The vulture is horrid on DPS but it fills the fleet support war link role as well or better then any ship in it's class. Thanks for the numbers responses, as it shows to me even more the nighthawk is out of line. As for passive being the arguement. Believe it or not you can passive tank a sleipnir very well also (projectiles also use no cap). To have any decent passive tank that compairs to the other commands tanks you need to run all Med and low slots for tank. No scram/web/mwd No BCU. I feel the nighthawk at least needs a 7th launcher slot to bring it closer to the dps of the others. Nighthawk is a FIELD command JUST LIKE the Abso/astart/sleip. It is supposed to fill the same role as these, and does so poorly other then being a ship less likely to be called primary. By the way, people say they hate the fact Amarr does only em, it also sucks having the nighthawks dmg bonus only for kinetic. Why do Khanid Amarr ships get missle bonus for all types when the missle specialists Caldari are less effective? WTF? Lowest dps AND only 1 type dmg or you go even Lower into pathetic dps numbers for a field command ship.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.13 02:37:00 - [112] Originally by: Malaphar I have to admit I missed a few specs in my original thread, but that was because I hate long posts! Now I have to do such a long post (due to the quoting) : For 890 RAW DPS , please add the implants : +5% Damage to Medium Energy Turrets ; +5% Damage to all energy Turrets ; +5% Rate of Fire OR + 5% Tracking Speed Accuracy (don't recall exactly) implant. For resistance calculations make sure you take in consideration Level 5 Command Ships , level 5 all Armor rezistance compensations , Level 5 Armor Warfare Specialist (+2% armor resists per level) applicable to 1-man gang if Wing Commander/Fleet Commander/ Squad Commander skill learnt. Armor Repaired : please take into consideration the 2 necessary implant for armor repair time reduction and amount increasing and you will reach my numbers.Also make sure you calculated Repair Systems at level 5. And one last thing : please read my specified crystals for damage! Only a beginner who thinks T2 is always better would fit Scorch or Conflagration crystals.Scorch and Conflagration crystals KILL your turrets Tracking Speed Accuracy to half or with 25%! This means your drop your chances to hit by 25% or even 50%...and we surely do not want that! At this point I can say that there is NO FCS out there that would pose a significant threat to a such fitted Absolution! JMHO Unless, well, I used the same implant types with the Sleipnir fit I described. D-F-C recruitment closed
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.12.13 08:56:00 - [113] if u guys are talking about best SOLO ship, then all shield tankers are obsolete, coz for solo, u need mwd, point and web fitted, with cap injector ofc. That leaves 3 slot shield tank, which is not good at all. As far as a gang is concerned, where there are dedicated tacklers, be advised, that even astarte can fill its mids with two EW slots, let it be tracking disruptors or even ECM, coz it doesnt need point and scram. So according to this "reveal" i say, that sleip is not as good in solo action as somebody say. It can tank, it is fast and it can dish out nice dps, but what does that help, if any smart person would just warp away when he sees that sleip is kiting him and not scraming. Astarte comes in play here more, coz he has free mids to fit those have-to-have modules for solo PvP. As for gang, with tacklers, sleip is again the short one. Sure, it can tank, but what does that help, if astarte hits him with dual tracking distruptors? At the end, its all about fittings, omni tanks vs specialized tanks, tactics and your gang. No ships is better then other (except that eos is worst in its class:) ).
Eiskalt Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.13 17:53:00 - [114] Sleipnir can fit a disruptor instead of a amp2 e.g. and the tank is still stronger than Abso/Astarte as long as it has cap. My setup had a cap booster fitted anyways. No amount of balancing can fix playing like a moron!
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.13 23:04:00 - [115] Originally by: Miss KillSome No ships is better then other (except that eos is worst in its class:) ). Eos is a fleet command ship.

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