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[BALANCE in eve?] where is cloaker fix?

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picchiatello	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:48:00 - [1] HIya. I love EVE online,is great game but.... Often I don't undestand how CCP work... they are "work in progress " for chance carrier,etc... but no WORDS on changes for fix AFK cloaker / MOVING AFK in all universe cloak gang..... Cloak should one of most important things to fix here... some words DEV? AM worry no words from u dev ;(
Tek'a Rain Gallente Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:23:00 - [2] fix? cloaks work just fine.
picchiatello	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:57:00 - [3] Edited by: picchiatello on 02/11/2007 10:57:27 cloak work well? afk cloak forever? good gang with Good FC can move around almost all universe and engage ONLY when they want you call this fine? cloak should work ONLY in cov ops recon.. just that ... ah and remove afk cloak...
Yussef Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:22:00 - [4] I think cloaks are fine.
Gun Babe	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:40:00 - [5] Edited by: Gun Babe on 02/11/2007 11:41:33 Originally by: picchiatello Edited by: picchiatello on 02/11/2007 10:57:27 cloak work well? afk cloak forever? good gang with Good FC can move around almost all universe and engage ONLY when they want you call this fine? cloak should work ONLY in cov ops recon.. just that ... ah and remove afk cloak... Paranoid? must have more nerfs, not enough nerfs
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar FSK23	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:41:00 - [6] Originally by: picchiatello Edited by: picchiatello on 02/11/2007 10:57:27 cloak work well? afk cloak forever? good gang with Good FC can move around almost all universe and engage ONLY when they want you call this fine? cloak should work ONLY in cov ops recon.. just that ... ah and remove afk cloak... You have th option to pvp un-consenciually. The other guy has the option to avoid pvp un-consenciually. Seems fine? -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Deacon Ix Ascendant Strategies Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.02 11:54:00 - [7] Cloaks are fine
EY ES	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:01:00 - [8] Well, two easy solutions for ships with no bonus to cloaks: 1) The bigger the ship the longer it takes for it to cloak. Make it so long for bs that cov ops have the chance to probe them down in case they have a sucky safespot. Also nice to catch those solo traveling capitals. 2) Give the cloaks a timer, so that you have to refresh it once in a while. Prolly something between 30 mins and 1 hour.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:17:00 - [9] Another cloak whine! Damn thats how many this week alone? Cloaks are fine. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:33:00 - [10] Cloaks are fine, yes.
Yussef Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:25:00 - [11] Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Originally by: picchiatello Edited by: picchiatello on 02/11/2007 10:57:27 cloak work well? afk cloak forever? good gang with Good FC can move around almost all universe and engage ONLY when they want you call this fine? cloak should work ONLY in cov ops recon.. just that ... ah and remove afk cloak... You have th option to pvp un-consenciually. The other guy has the option to avoid pvp un-consenciually. Seems fine? Yes. Cause 1) players can go into stations and avoid pvp, 2) they can just logout. I have no prob if someone wants to afk while online but not in a station and to do it safely.
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:35:00 - [12] All that needs to be done is make it impossible to fit cloaks on anything but covops, bombers, recons, blackops, and non combat ships like haulers. All the above ships need a cloak or it makes sense to fit one. Cloaking ravens need to go! _______________
Sevis	Posted - 2007.11.02 21:06:00 - [13] Put your own AFK cloaker in the same system. Now the original AFK cloaker is caught in the same trap. Also, the only victims of AFK cloakers are groups of players that have some territorial claim to the system. Players outside of that group neither expect nor paid for the costs of the territory, and they don't care if the guy is cloaked or not. As such, the only victims of this practice have a fix: Travel in groups.
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.02 21:13:00 - [14] Cloaks are fine.
Beowulf Scheafer Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.02 21:23:00 - [15] cloaks give you the ability to sacrifice a slot for having one of the old ultrasafe bm's. just as intended, so whats wrong with them?
Draygo Korvan Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.11.02 21:33:00 - [16] Learn to set up proper bait traps. --
I SoStoned	Posted - 2007.11.02 21:44:00 - [17] Fix for cloakers: A) No cloaks on ships not specialized for them. B) Fitting a cloak disables all weapons C) Reduce sig rad on ships w/ active cloak to 10% (non cov-ops) and 1% (cov ops), but do not allow 100% complete immunity to being probed down. Of all these options, C would be the best since you can still fit your cloak and be nearly invulnerable to being located, but not 100%. Someone with the right fit, or a group, can still do their work and find you if you're not careful. Also, while fitting a cloak your ship remains in space, cloaked, for 15 minutes aggression timer or not.
Nixxxs	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:47:00 - [18] Starting off, I fly a helios and stealth bomber, I Don't think people should be using cloaking devices on battleships simply put its unfair to me and my 75 days of training time to be a Bad @ss covert ops guy. Frankly you want to cloak fly a covert ops however being a skilled flyer of cov ops anyone else is really crap compared to using it as intended.
Arte Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.11.02 23:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Nixxxs Starting off, I fly a helios and stealth bomber, I Don't think people should be using cloaking devices on battleships simply put its unfair to me and my 75 days of training time to be a Bad @ss covert ops guy. Frankly you want to cloak fly a covert ops however being a skilled flyer of cov ops anyone else is really crap compared to using it as intended. I am a cov-ops spec guy too, I (I'll see your helios and stealth bomber and raise you helios, buzzard, maticore, nemesis, arazu and lachesis) yet I have no problems with someone gimping their setups to fit a cloak. Putting lots of time and sp into a particular skill group does not give your argument any more weight. Cloaks are fine as they are, they serve their purpose at a cost to the pilot if he wishes to remain in an offensive role. A system to somehow scan down a cloaked pilot if he's not using cov-ops cloaks is feasible and has been discused at length in many other threads and even considered as a future feature, but "not allowing any ships to fit a cloak unless it's specced" is ridiculous in my opinion. Your 'afk' jocks are using cloaks precisely as intended. Stop whining and stop thinking the game has to be handed to you on a plate. "Unfair"??? Go play kitty online.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Ione Hunt All that needs to be done is make it impossible to fit cloaks on anything but covops, bombers, recons, blackops, and non combat ships like haulers. All the above ships need a cloak or it makes sense to fit one. Cloaking ravens need to go! This, or atleast make non-cov ops cloaks probable. [Balance] The Caldari problem.
Strak Yogorn Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:30:00 - [21] since nothing is broken, there is no fix
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.03 10:08:00 - [22] Originally by: welsh wizard This, or atleast make non-cov ops cloaks probable. Have you thought that through? What would you gain by being able to probe cloakers? Anyone with half a brain will be moving while cloaked, so unless you get ridiculously lucky, you'll just land somewhere "near" a cloaked ship. They'll still be cloaked, and you won't be any the better off for it. Cloaks are fine.
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:13:00 - [23] Originally by: I SoStoned Fix for cloakers: A) No cloaks on ships not specialized for them. B) Fitting a cloak disables all weapons C) Reduce sig rad on ships w/ active cloak to 10% (non cov-ops) and 1% (cov ops), but do not allow 100% complete immunity to being probed down. Of all these options, C would be the best since you can still fit your cloak and be nearly invulnerable to being located, but not 100%. Someone with the right fit, or a group, can still do their work and find you if you're not careful. Also, while fitting a cloak your ship remains in space, cloaked, for 15 minutes aggression timer or not. You forgot a simpler 'fix': D) Remove cloaks.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.03 11:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: welsh wizard This, or atleast make non-cov ops cloaks probable. Have you thought that through? What would you gain by being able to probe cloakers? Anyone with half a brain will be moving while cloaked, so unless you get ridiculously lucky, you'll just land somewhere "near" a cloaked ship. They'll still be cloaked, and you won't be any the better off for it. Cloaks are fine. Uncloaks them for 60seconds forcing them to keep moving and contributes towards quelling the servers of AFK cloaking types. Oh sorry... You're just a troll. In which case ignore everything I'm saying and argue about pointless stuff instead. [Balance] The Caldari problem.
picchiatello	Posted - 2007.11.04 10:41:00 - [25] Edited by: picchiatello on 04/11/2007 10:41:05 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: welsh wizard This, or atleast make non-cov ops cloaks probable. Have you thought that through? What would you gain by being able to probe cloakers? Anyone with half a brain will be moving while cloaked not afk cloaker... exaple : You need mine in system .. 5 cloak shop gang arrive ( recon for exaple).... they cloak and they stopped u to mine.. and they go afk maybe... but u can't know if they are afk or not so they "BLOCK " system being AFK... Cloak work complety ok except for AFK cloakers.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.04 11:09:00 - [26] Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: welsh wizard This, or atleast make non-cov ops cloaks probable. Have you thought that through? What would you gain by being able to probe cloakers? Anyone with half a brain will be moving while cloaked, so unless you get ridiculously lucky, you'll just land somewhere "near" a cloaked ship. They'll still be cloaked, and you won't be any the better off for it. Cloaks are fine. Uncloaks them for 60seconds forcing them to keep moving and contributes towards quelling the servers of AFK cloaking types. Oh sorry... You're just a troll. In which case ignore everything I'm saying and argue about pointless stuff instead. Umm... what? How will be able to probe out cloaked ships somehow mysteriously uncloak them for 60 seconds? Unless you're crazy lucky and land within a few km of them (take into account they'll be moving, making it extremely unlikely).
Wez Drubnyeskov	Posted - 2007.11.04 11:17:00 - [27] Originally by: picchiatello Edited by: picchiatello on 04/11/2007 10:41:05 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: welsh wizard This, or atleast make non-cov ops cloaks probable. Have you thought that through? What would you gain by being able to probe cloakers? Anyone with half a brain will be moving while cloaked not afk cloaker... exaple : You need mine in system .. 5 cloak shop gang arrive ( recon for exaple).... they cloak and they stopped u to mine.. and they go afk maybe... but u can't know if they are afk or not so they "BLOCK " system being AFK... Cloak work complety ok except for AFK cloakers. you've just killed your own argument how do you know there are afk cloakers, maybe they're just very patient. nowt wrong with cloaks as they are.
Car Wars The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.11.04 12:11:00 - [28] Edited by: Car Wars on 04/11/2007 12:13:12 I would welcome the ability to scan cloakers, especially for isk farmers which warp off and cloak before you can end the scan (within 60 sec of jumping in..) If you at least get a fix on their location then you could do a search pattern, or use a stealbomber bomb on the search site to decloak the ship. (it would also mean that the covert ops and stealhbomber would go hand in hand). Maybe ad this: If you are in a recon or covert, you cannot be scanned. This would make its so that you can relay intel without warping around all the time. Recons and coverts do crappy dps anyway so not much to fear.
picchiatello	Posted - 2007.11.04 22:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Wez Drubnyeskov Originally by: picchiatello Edited by: picchiatello on 04/11/2007 10:41:05 Originally by: Alex Harumichi Originally by: welsh wizard This, or atleast make non-cov ops cloaks probable. Have you thought that through? What would you gain by being able to probe cloakers? Anyone with half a brain will be moving while cloaked not afk cloaker... exaple : You need mine in system .. 5 cloak shop gang arrive ( recon for exaple).... they cloak and they stopped u to mine.. and they go afk maybe... but u can't know if they are afk or not so they "BLOCK " system being AFK... Cloak work complety ok except for AFK cloakers. you've just killed your own argument how do you know there are afk cloakers, maybe they're just very patient. nowt wrong with cloaks as they are. EXACTLY .. you took the point !!!! you can't be sure they are afk cloaker or very patient so FIX AFK CLOAKER!!!! cloak need u clik for continue be cloaked so they can't be AFK !!!! be afk for exaple in 5-10 -20 etc isn't good .. and YES sometimes happened they were 5-10 + ALL Afk .. FIX AFK CLOAK just that !!!! cloak work fine BUT NOT AFK!!!!
Grytok KL0NKRIEGER	Posted - 2007.11.04 22:49:00 - [30] You want to have claoks fixed? Fine. Get rid of the targeting-delay after decloaking on Force Recons and Covert Ops. There's your fix for cloaks! kthxbye .
Alexei Stryker	Posted - 2007.11.04 22:57:00 - [31] Originally by: picchiatello cloak need u clik for continue be cloaked so they can't be AFK !!!! lol Maybe a massage box that ask if you want to extend cloaking, yes, no or cancel... OMG that would mean, EvE Spacship computers are running on Vista... We are doomed...
Katana Seiko Made in Germany	Posted - 2007.11.05 01:07:00 - [32] Cloaking is fine as it is... Why do people always need to cry like babies about that? I believe that these people complaining about cloaks are just jealous and have a somewhat huge inferiority complex... Like pirates... -- The future begins now - in EVE we live it, in real life we create it! Your sig is too big. Please keep it under 400x120 and less than 24000 byte. -the sexiest moderator ([email protected])
Minny Sky	Posted - 2007.11.05 07:11:00 - [33] This is what is going to happen. The question is when. Covops, Blackops, and Recons will be able to cloak as they do now. All other ships will not be able to cloak or they will have a signature reduction device (a sorta cloak) that they can use. They will be able to be probed out with some luck and time. This is going to happen. I can't wait. There are going to be a lot of upset people: farmers, carebears, nano cloakers etc etc. I hope everyone who uses these things in non covops ships quits after. I dont need you in game. Thanks :)
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.11.05 11:17:00 - [34] The cloaker fix should come around the same time as the local fix.
Winters Chill Amarr White Wolf Enterprises Harmonious Ascent	Posted - 2007.11.05 11:27:00 - [35] cloaks are perfect. Fix...DO NOT WANT!
Vitelius Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.05 12:23:00 - [36] I've said this before and I say this again: Cloaking is not your problem. Your problem is that you're not getting what YOU want. Your real problem is actually local. You're using local as an intel tool, which is what it was not originally meant for - you're using it to feel safe. Now, the other party knows this and uses local and a cloak against you. He comes in, cloaks and gets a cup of coffee because he prefers using psychological warfare on you. You're nervous because you never know when you're going to get hit. If you wouldn't see him in local in the first place, suddenly him being AFK cloaked wouldn't worry you at all. To summarize: he's using local + cloak to make you feel unsecure. You are using local to feel secure. That's what this boils down to. Both are valid ways of gameplay. Deal with it. ---
Tradesman Mcgee Caldari Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.11.05 12:28:00 - [37] Fix local. Cloaks are working as intended. -------------------------- Research & Trade
von Kollati Caldari Megadodo Publications The Sphere Confederation	Posted - 2007.11.05 13:08:00 - [38] The real problem is that, that the afk cloacking is such a warfare what against you cant defend yourself. The cloacks on covops, recons is fine because it is their role, but cloacking in BS, dictors etc.. is not good. But there is some solution that can help this: -Give us a porbes, that can fit only in Scan probe launcher, and can find cloacked ships. (So the cloacking for cloacker should be long) -Give a cloacking devices a special sensor strength. (The advanced cloacking devices hide you better, but there is a very little chance to find it, even you have covops cloacking) -The ship with prototype or improved cloacking device should be find between 5-10 minutes, a ship with covops device is nearly 15 minutes. This give the chanche to find your enemy, but it is not simply. -Give us a module, that emitts a special impulsse and decloack all ship in its range, and prevents the ships recloacking. Like this: Range: 50km Max speed: 0m/s No remote assistance. And consume Heavy Water. Activaton: 180s This module should be fitted on a new class: ( better but more complicated) or give the ability to Heavy Interdictors to fit it. An example scenario: An enemy arrives in your system and cloack somewhere. A: If it is a covops/recon: you can scan he in 15minute, if he is AFK and dont change his position. If he moving/warping another location you cant find him. B: If the enemy has a non-covops/recon you can scan he out in 5-10minute depends on skills, he must change his position in every 5 minute. If he is AFK, you can find him simply. If there is a spot to a cloacked ship, the ship, with a decloacking module must warp in, and activate the bubble. In this point, if the cloacked pilot see this he can warp out (if not AFK) This system gives us the ability to find afk cloackers, while the "normal" non-afk ships can do their job like now. Sorry for my bad english. Kollati
Myra2007	Posted - 2007.11.05 13:35:00 - [39] 2 of my recons just got nerfed or are in the process of getting nerfed. Goddamn at least leave my cloaking alone CCP. Very soon it will the only viable way of staying alive in a recon at all.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.05 13:37:00 - [40] Originally by: von Kollati The real problem is that, that the afk cloacking is such a warfare what against you cant defend yourself. "Akf cloaking" != "warfare" If they are afk, they will not be shooting at you. If their mere presence on local is enough to terrify you enough not to undock, then you have problems that no cloak nerf can fix.
Etil DeLaFuente Res Publica	Posted - 2007.11.05 13:44:00 - [41] Cloak need a deep change especially because of isk farmers abusing it. Make cloaked ships able to get probed. Except of course for dedicated ships like covert ops.
Vitelius Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.05 13:57:00 - [42] Originally by: von Kollati The real problem is that, that the afk cloacking is such a warfare what against you cant defend yourself. The cloacks on covops, recons is fine because it is their role, but cloacking in BS, dictors etc.. is not good. But there is some solution that can help this: -Give us a porbes, that can fit only in Scan probe launcher, and can find cloacked ships. (So the cloacking for cloacker should be long) -Give a cloacking devices a special sensor strength. (The advanced cloacking devices hide you better, but there is a very little chance to find it, even you have covops cloacking) -The ship with prototype or improved cloacking device should be find between 5-10 minutes, a ship with covops device is nearly 15 minutes. This give the chanche to find your enemy, but it is not simply. -Give us a module, that emitts a special impulsse and decloack all ship in its range, and prevents the ships recloacking. Like this: Range: 50km Max speed: 0m/s No remote assistance. And consume Heavy Water. Activaton: 180s This module should be fitted on a new class: ( better but more complicated) or give the ability to Heavy Interdictors to fit it. An example scenario: An enemy arrives in your system and cloack somewhere. A: If it is a covops/recon: you can scan he in 15minute, if he is AFK and dont change his position. If he moving/warping another location you cant find him. B: If the enemy has a non-covops/recon you can scan he out in 5-10minute depends on skills, he must change his position in every 5 minute. If he is AFK, you can find him simply. If there is a spot to a cloacked ship, the ship, with a decloacking module must warp in, and activate the bubble. In this point, if the cloacked pilot see this he can warp out (if not AFK) This system gives us the ability to find afk cloackers, while the "normal" non-afk ships can do their job like now. Sorry for my bad english. Kollati Ok I have to ask, what exactly in cloaked warfare is something that you can't defend yourself against? Cloaks work as intended, they hide the ship. There's also the fact that Recon warfare is often by its nature exactly like this: patiently waiting for an opportunity, often sitting still at a good spot. Why is this? Because the moment you enter local, everyone can see you regardless of your cloaking status. Working as covops/force recon isn't really working when everyone is alarmed to your presence anyway even though you're trying to stay cloaked and undetected. People know you're there and are cautious and can field protection... That's why it's usually simpler to observe for example on grid while cloaked for long periods of time waiting for the right moment to strike. Now making it possible to scan out cloaked recon/covops is not really right as long as we have local the way it is. That's one of the reasons why AFK cloaking happens and often it's not really even AFK cloaking even though the ships sit still. On the other hand I do agree that regular cloaks need to be nerfed. Ships that are not designed to be cloakers should feel the pain. Especially farmers are on my personal hate list simply because of their cloaking tactics. Now, logoffskis you can actually kill even though it's difficult, but the cloakers you can't. In my opinion regular cloaks make 0.0 too safe for those guys. Something needs to be done indeed. Covops cloaks should not be touched as long as local stays the way it is now. Your solution is one solution but I'd definitely leave covops cloaks out of it. ---
Inflexible Rytiri Lva	Posted - 2007.11.05 15:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Ione Hunt All that needs to be done is make it impossible to fit cloaks on anything but covops, bombers, recons, blackops, and non combat ships like haulers. All the above ships need a cloak or it makes sense to fit one. Cloaking ravens need to go! This.
picchiatello	Posted - 2007.11.07 19:29:00 - [44] fix local? maybe... just 1 point.. for get secure system u mean have alltime somebody sitting at gate for intel??? that SO BIGGGGGGGGGG boring.... already know so many people are so bored about gate camp with 10-20-50 -etc people in it ... so "sitting on gate for intel " = boreeeedddd

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