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Next best PvE BS after Torp nerf?

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Captain Lee Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.06 03:53:00 - [1] Assuming the torpedo nerf will not be altered much (reducing the Raven to useless scrap) which battleship is the best for PvE? A good ship should survive level 4 missions without losing your ship every week/month. This generally requires the following: 1. A snipping setup with a range of 70-80km stand off fire. One needs to snip to avoid death by lag. Once a spawn swarms a lagged/disconnected pilot he usually ends up in a pod. In addition, one needs the extra time to warp out if things get too hot. 2. A good tank that doesn't require cap boosters. A good tank is obvious since level 4 missions put a ton of DPS on a pilot's ship. Cap boosters aren't good since they take too much space to run a full mission with while still having room for ammo and some loot. 3. The need for firepower is obvious. One needs enough firepower to take down other battleships in a reasonable time (1-5 minutes). One needs to be able to reduce an NPC spawn's numbers fast enough to maintain their tank. One needs to be able to kill small EW ships fast too (especially webbers and scramblers). Failing in one of these catagories will result in another podding or, if you're lucky, a very long mission time.
William Ortega	Posted - 2007.11.06 03:58:00 - [2] 4. Tons of thermal resist for all the flames you're gonna get... There are a crap load of obvious choices for BS's that are good for PVE. The most obvious choice stil is... Raven. voila
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.06 03:58:00 - [3] You are sort of a terrible player, aren't you? There are a number of hints, but the most obvious would be the 5 minute upper mark for a 'fast' kill of a BS.
Mortuus Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.06 04:01:00 - [4] Wait for it..... A mix of cruise + torps on a raven. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Heretic Army	Posted - 2007.11.06 04:06:00 - [5] I'd say the.......hang on, gotta search my notes.......ah here it is. :::drumroll::: The CRUISE RAVEN!!!!!! I know it's quite a stretch, but see if you can connect the dots. 1. What is a weapon that always hits? Missile!! 2. What kind of range do you need? Long!! 3. What is a BS sized, long-range missile? Cruise!!! 4. What is the best missile spamming BS? Raven!!! Put them all together and what do you get? Cruise Raven!!! You know what the best part about the cruise missiles are? They get the bonus of the explosion velocity and size skills! AMAZING!!! Anyone have any spoons I can borrow? If I have to spoon-feed any more players, I'll have to eat my Wheaties with a fork... --- Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it. Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Heretic Army	Posted - 2007.11.06 04:08:00 - [6] I'd say the.......hang on, gotta search my notes.......ah here it is. :::drumroll::: The CRUISE RAVEN!!!!!! I know it's quite a stretch, but see if you can connect the dots. 1. What is a weapon that always hits? Missile!! 2. What kind of range do you need? Long!! 3. What is a BS sized, long-range missile? Cruise!!! 4. What is the best missile spamming BS? Raven!!! Put them all together and what do you get? Cruise Raven!!! You know what the best part about the cruise missiles are? They get the bonus of the explosion velocity and size skills! AMAZING!!! Anyone have any spoons I can borrow? If I have to spoon-feed any more players, I'll have to eat my Wheaties with a fork... --- Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it. Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
William Ortega	Posted - 2007.11.06 04:19:00 - [7] in before bardi realizes he's got a nooby double post thing going :)
Arric Rohr The Knights Templar Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.06 05:14:00 - [8] Shh, don't tell anyone, but the Domi is better than the Raven for Level 4 mission. But you all trained Caldari... Too bad. AR Where do I get one of those cool signatures?
William Ortega	Posted - 2007.11.06 05:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Arric Rohr Shh, don't tell anyone, but the Domi is better than the Raven for Level 4 mission. But you all trained Caldari... Too bad. AR UR mean
Disco Flint Caldari Disco Corp.	Posted - 2007.11.06 05:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Captain Lee 1. In addition, one needs the extra time to warp out if things get too hot. My standard T2 Raven with at that time mediocre skills didn't need to warp out. Ever. Infact, I think the only time I warped out of a lvl4 was 1.) my first lvl4, Right Hand of Zazzmatazz, I had BS lvl2 and Cruise Missiles Lvl1, no T2 hardeners. 2.) Worlds Collide (dunno which factions), last stage, bounced off the gate on warp in and aggroed hole room. Decent skills and decent T2 fit that time. In short: don't build your missionrunner to be good at warping out. Originally by: Captain Lee 2. A good tank that doesn't require cap boosters. A good tank is obvious since level 4 missions put a ton of DPS on a pilot's ship. Cap boosters aren't good since they take too much space to run a full mission with while still having room for ammo and some loot. You pick up loot with your BS? Wait wait, I'm sensing you even waste a slot or even two for a tractor beam and salvager? Also, ammo takes up very little space, even for long missions. Since that dreaded Zazzmatazz mission 1 1/2 years back I never undocked a BS without a Cap Booster. My CNR uses a True Sansha one. They're worth the slot and every damn m¦ in your cargohold. The only way not to use a cap booster would be a permatanked setup, which is awesome in a NH and either extremely costly or kind of unpractical in a Raven. Use a cap booster. Without the Siege Launchers you have the fitting to field one, without looting like a noob in your BS you have the cargo. Even with 3x CCC rigs a cap booster is worth it. It's all about the amount of time it takes you to finish the mission. A warp out because you cap out is bad. A warp out in 2nd or 3rd stage with 30km between the gates is very bad. Just load up your cargo with 4-5k missiles and the rest with cap charges. It's not like you'll burn through all of them in every mission. I don't need them for 90% at all. But when things get hairy, when you're drunk or nearly asleep and aggro the wrong stuff, they'll be your "ZOMGREDEMERGENCYBUTTON". These babies saved my butt in that Worlds Collide, the DPS broke my T2 tank even though I didn't run out of cap; but without the booster, I wouldn't have had the time to kill off the 4 scramblers. Originally by: Captain Lee 3. The need for firepower is obvious. One needs enough firepower to take down other battleships in a reasonable time (1-5 minutes). One needs to be able to reduce an NPC spawn's numbers fast enough to maintain their tank. One needs to be able to kill small EW ships fast too (especially webbers and scramblers). Failing in one of these catagories will result in another podding or, if you're lucky, a very long mission time. With a cruise Raven you'll simply one volley (NPC-)tacklers when they MWD towards you. 4 tacklers in a room? Draw aggro, 4 volleys, no more headache. And should they spawn right under your belly, well, you'll still do decent damage with Cruises, or you could send your drones after them. And you'll certainly last long enough to take them out thanks to the cap booster. Also with decent skills, T2 or faction launchers, 2-3 BCUs and maybe even a hardwiring or two, the Raven deals enough damage versus all targets. So let's sum all that up in a handy little sentence: Use a Cruise Raven with a Cap Booster. P.S. I still lol at all those who believed the "Torp-Raven"-Hype for missions. Cruise were and are the way to go.
Disco Flint Caldari Disco Corp.	Posted - 2007.11.06 05:22:00 - [11] Originally by: Arric Rohr Shh, don't tell anyone, but the Domi is better than the Raven for Level 4 mission. But you all trained Caldari... Too bad. AR Actually, the Domi has a unique way to draw and handle aggro, I'll give you that ;) But while the Domi might be safer, the Raven is faster.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.06 05:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Disco Flint Originally by: Arric Rohr Shh, don't tell anyone, but the Domi is better than the Raven for Level 4 mission. But you all trained Caldari... Too bad. AR Actually, the Domi has a unique way to draw and handle aggro, I'll give you that ;) But while the Domi might be safer, the Raven is faster. Depending on the mission, the Megathron is faster still. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.11.06 06:40:00 - [13] Cruise missile CNR is the answer you are looking for. Various other combinations will work out also quite nice if you have proper 'the best' ship fitted for each mission and have proper skills to fly them but over whole mission sample your average combat agent throws at you CNR (with cruise missiles) shall still be the fastest ship. On average (meaning, that in some missions other ships will be faster - like Amarr against Blood/Sanasha/BS heavy drones).
schurem Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.06 07:11:00 - [14] i still think the other faction navy ships should get an extra gun point too However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning sounds. <<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free* Or Die Trying* >>>>
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.11.06 08:24:00 - [15] Originally by: Disco Flint P.S. I still lol at all those who believed the "Torp-Raven"-Hype for missions. Cruise were and are the way to go. Altho it's irrelevant under this thread torp raven actually WAS faster (well still is until their range gets reduced) in missions. Approx 20 - 30 % faster even not just by slight margin. I know bcos I fly them both with proper skills and hardwires (me in cruise CNR, my alt in Torp CNR) and was using them every now and then solo on same mission to see the difference. After the patch .. oh well, let's just say my torpedo CNR alt will finsih cruise missiles V in few days and if anyone feels they want to trade me 7 navy cruise launchers for 7 navy siege launchers then I'm quite interested.
Captain Lee Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.07 00:38:00 - [16] I really have no time or use for you kiddies, elitests, or griefers so I'll just ignore you. Feel free to continue "honoring" your good name. I guess one could use cruise missiles on a raven. However, that will definitely drop the DPS from the unnerfed torp setups and consequently make the missions considerably longer. One could buy a ton of T2 and faction fittings/ships, but for those of us who just want to play the game occasionally, don't buy ISK, don't have 10's of millions of SP, can't afford billions of ISK for a single mission ship, etc. this idea is useless. I like the idea of using a Domi, but that sounds like it would be slow (verses current torp setups) unless you had T2 drones and very good skills. Can anyone comment? I'm surprised noone has suggested turret setups that work at the 70-80km range. I would have thought that there must be a good setup using large turrets that is better for missions than cruise missiles and isn't close range restricted. Then again, I'm not a big mission runner.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.07 00:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Captain Lee I'm surprised noone has suggested turret setups that work at the 70-80km range. I would have thought that there must be a good setup using large turrets that is better for missions than cruise missiles and isn't close range restricted. Then again, I'm not a big mission runner. If you look up, I suggested a rail Megathron. I've seen it outrun a raven for certain missions. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.07 00:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Disco Flint Originally by: Captain Lee P.S. I still lol at all those who believed the "Torp-Raven"-Hype for missions. Cruise were and are the way to go. PPS. I still LOL at people who thought otherwise. Your ignorant in my opinion. Go get a stop watch. run say.. lvl 4 extravaganza with torps. Then get a lvl 4 mission extravaganza again with the same mobs and run it with cruise. See which ones win in the least ammount of time. Dont feel like wasting your time doing that? Okay, I will giveyou the answer then. The torp raven is faster. _________________________________
Shandling Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.07 00:45:00 - [19] Edited by: Shandling on 07/11/2007 00:45:34 Originally by: Captain Lee I'm surprised noone has suggested turret setups that work at the 70-80km range. I would have thought that there must be a good setup using large turrets that is better for missions than cruise missiles and isn't close range restricted. Then again, I'm not a big mission runner. The reason missiles own in missions is they hit for the same damage whether the enemy is 1k away or your max range. With a sniper ship, you can't do missions very easily where they drop you VERY close to the enemies out of an acceleration gate. Gonna need to sacrifice some tank for extra cap + AB in order to get out and get to your optimal quickly, and with an AB on a tanked BS you won't move too quickly. Yes, guns work. Sniper ships have the problem stated above. Close range (blasters, ACs) have the problem of getting close enough to be in optimal. No MWDs in deadspace, so need to rely on an AB... you'll be taking a ton of damage on the way in, plus all the damage you'll take to move from ship to ship.
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.11.07 00:49:00 - [20] Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 07/11/2007 00:49:12 To be honest, the raven was never the "best" mission runner, it was simply the easiest to train for and the most convient to use (ie. can pick damage types and still get the RoF bonus). I'd list reasons and points, but he'll just ignore me. Use a cruise raven and deal with it. I think the torp buff is amazing and was badly needed, but I'm also not a mission runner
Shandling Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.07 00:54:00 - [21] Originally by: Atsuko Ratu To be honest, the raven was never the "best" mission runner, it was simply the easiest to train for and the most convient to use (ie. can pick damage types and still get the RoF bonus). I think that's why it was (is) the best mission runner. There are plenty of ships that will do certain missions faster, but Raven is somewhat of an 'omni-mission runner', where it does all missions well. And the fact that it's easy to train for means you can spend more time training even further to get the extra oomph out of it.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:12:00 - [22] Raven is a no brainer choice for PVE. Always hit weapon that does its close range damage at long range, with no penatly for switching damage types? Cruise missle raven has some advantages, more DPS vs smaller ships, plus cruise are easier to fit, so you can pimp your tank more. Indidentally, this is backwards from turrets, where the long range solution not only does less damage, they ALSO are harder to fit. Raven was never the highed dps BS, so fighting a faction whos weak damage type was done naturally by certain high dps turrets, the turret ship could rat faster....but you cant beat the ravens combo of tank/gank at the same time, penalty free damage switching, always hit, capless weapons. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:25:00 - [23] Quote: One could buy a ton of T2 and faction fittings/ships, but for those of us who just want to play the game occasionally, don't buy ISK, don't have 10's of millions of SP, can't afford billions of ISK for a single mission ship, etc. this idea is useless. Uh, I only have 5m SP, I don't buy ISK and I play maybe 2 hours a day if that... I can easily afford a faction fitted BS, maybe you should take the time to learn how to make money? Quote: 3. The need for firepower is obvious. One needs enough firepower to take down other battleships in a reasonable time (1-5 minutes). One needs to be able to reduce an NPC spawn's numbers fast enough to maintain their tank. One needs to be able to kill small EW ships fast too (especially webbers and scramblers). Failing in one of these catagories will result in another podding or, if you're lucky, a very long mission time. NPC's don't pod... -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Captain Lee Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Kadoes Khan Quote: One could buy a ton of T2 and faction fittings/ships, but for those of us who just want to play the game occasionally, don't buy ISK, don't have 10's of millions of SP, can't afford billions of ISK for a single mission ship, etc. this idea is useless. Uh, I only have 5m SP, I don't buy ISK and I play maybe 2 hours a day if that... I can easily afford a faction fitted BS, maybe you should take the time to learn how to make money? Only 2 hours a day huh? Let me guess. You're still living with your parents, it's probably more like 2-4 hours a day, you have no wife or kids, and your social life is nonexistant. Some of us have a real life and can't put 14 hrs/week into a game. I can do maybe 5 hrs on a good week.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.11.07 02:26:00 - [25] Yeah, as has been pointed out, the ship coming right behind the torp Raven for current PvE (and which will emerge the best post Rev III)... the cruise Raven! ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
William Ortega	Posted - 2007.11.07 02:30:00 - [26] Originally by: Captain Lee Originally by: Kadoes Khan Quote: One could buy a ton of T2 and faction fittings/ships, but for those of us who just want to play the game occasionally, don't buy ISK, don't have 10's of millions of SP, can't afford billions of ISK for a single mission ship, etc. this idea is useless. Uh, I only have 5m SP, I don't buy ISK and I play maybe 2 hours a day if that... I can easily afford a faction fitted BS, maybe you should take the time to learn how to make money? Only 2 hours a day huh? Let me guess. You're still living with your parents, it's probably more like 2-4 hours a day, you have no wife or kids, and your social life is nonexistant. Some of us have a real life and can't put 14 hrs/week into a game. I can do maybe 5 hrs on a good week. Ok now you're definitely starting to **** people off (me in particular). You asked what whould be the best PVE ship after the "torp nerf". You were told repeatedly that the best ship is still a raven, only this time with cruise missiles, no brainer. If all you wanted to do was troll and whine, WoW forums are that away -> And finally, 14 hours a week is not that much for an MMO. You probably spend more time than that jacking off in the bathroom. If you don't have time to play the game, it's noones fault but your own, and your argument is especially moot for Eve which has got to be one of the most casual player friendly MMOs out there (I mean real time "leveling up" system... comon)
foodini	Posted - 2007.11.07 02:34:00 - [27] Actually, I've found a better setup than flying a Caldari Navy Raven into L4 combat missions. I do almost twice as much DPS and my tank is about twice as stiff. I fly two ravens. =] Alt-Tab is my friend.
twopointoh	Posted - 2007.11.07 02:34:00 - [28] Originally by: William Ortega You probably spend more time than that jacking off in the bathroom. This
Ecky X The Aforementioned	Posted - 2007.11.07 04:24:00 - [29] I'll put in a good word for the Typhoon and Maelstrom. Run some numbers and you'll realize they were better from the start too. -----
Riho Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.07 08:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Captain Lee Assuming the torpedo nerf will not be altered much (reducing the Raven to useless scrap) which battleship is the best for PvE? A good ship should survive level 4 missions without losing your ship every week/month. This generally requires the following: 1. A snipping setup with a range of 70-80km stand off fire. One needs to snip to avoid death by lag. Once a spawn swarms a lagged/disconnected pilot he usually ends up in a pod. In addition, one needs the extra time to warp out if things get too hot. 2. A good tank that doesn't require cap boosters. A good tank is obvious since level 4 missions put a ton of DPS on a pilot's ship. Cap boosters aren't good since they take too much space to run a full mission with while still having room for ammo and some loot. 3. The need for firepower is obvious. One needs enough firepower to take down other battleships in a reasonable time (1-5 minutes). One needs to be able to reduce an NPC spawn's numbers fast enough to maintain their tank. One needs to be able to kill small EW ships fast too (especially webbers and scramblers). Failing in one of these catagories will result in another podding or, if you're lucky, a very long mission time. um... CRUISE raven ???? just as good as torps now and its not a torp nerf.. its a buff

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