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Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
The Acquisition
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Posted - 2007.11.13 13:41:00 -
[31]
I don't care if it was needed. But I like how CCP stirs things up every once in a while. Keeps things interesting. Now we get to adjust setups and evaluate altered modules to adapt. Some ships will become more popular, some will become less popular. Maybe new tactics will emerge. This game would be very boring to me if it ever stopped changing. |
VolcanicButtmonkey
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Posted - 2007.11.13 13:53:00 -
[32]
If no ones realised it yet, its a hUUGE boost to target painters
Step 1 Bring Sniper Fleet
Step 2 Load Locking Range Script
Step 3 Bring Bellicose/Hyena/Hugin/Rapier with loaded TP's
Step 4
Step 5 Profit?????
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Vlip
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.13 14:57:00 -
[33]
I actually kinda like the new system. It makes a lot of sense for battleships.
What I'm worried is the effect this will have on sniper cruisers.
The Tempest can do with one of both boosts for TCs and SBs, the Muninn on the other hand simply can't.
The poor thing has already a ridiculously hard time doing its job (sniping inties) in todays world of insanely fast inties. Now if you cut its scan res boost to 0 and its tracking boost to 0 how will it ever catch any inty?
I'm interested in knowing what CCP is thinking about the drastic effects this change will have on smaller ships.
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Altaica Amur
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Posted - 2007.11.13 20:54:00 -
[34]
 Quote:
I actually kinda like the new system. It makes a lot of sense for battleships.
What I'm worried is the effect this will have on sniper cruisers.
The Tempest can do with one of both boosts for TCs and SBs, the Muninn on the other hand simply can't.
The poor thing has already a ridiculously hard time doing its job (sniping inties) in todays world of insanely fast inties. Now if you cut its scan res boost to 0 and its tracking boost to 0 how will it ever catch any inty?
I'm interested in knowing what CCP is thinking about the drastic effects this change will have on smaller ships.
If you think that it will be easy on a BS I think you'll be sorely surprised as for the most part BSs, battleships, especially sniper battleships don't have enough mids for that. Quite simply you'll need 3 sensor boosters where you used to needed 2 before which cuts into your tracking computer space which will also suffer a similar need for more mid slots, failing the addition of 2 mid slots on all the sniping BS you're going to see a big loss to tracking or locking times. Now I'm always in support of more mids ( active shield tanker ftl >.o ) but somehow I doubt CCP will be giving my Rokh 8 mids with the coming patch however sorely they may be needed. Basically sniping is getting screwed and though this will make my Rokh stand out more powerfully as an effective sniping platform I'm not really worried about the other snipers anyways, I'm worried about speedfits. Nano/speed fits going 10 km/s is already a bit threat to snipers who need to get their slow ships into warp before they get jumped on, by drawing them in closer with a nerf to tracking computers and sensor boosters you're only giving the already overpowered a hand at killing snipers too.
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Veng3ance
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.11.13 21:20:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Veng3ance on 13/11/2007 21:21:42
Originally by: Bein Glorious
Originally by: Veng3ance
Are you guys joking me? A boost to Amarr?! How!?
Amarr battleships have the lowest amount of mid-slots compared to any race. Ontop of that we have neither a range bonus or tracking bonus battleship.
This is a terribly hard nerf to sniping Amarr battleships, which was basically the only thing going for Amarr still 
A tachyon armageddon after this scripting change will track 76% better than a 1400mm tempest with optimal range scripts. Right now, the geddon only tracks about 12% better than that tempest. Is that a good enough stealth boost for you?
And you getting this numbers from where? And with what setup? How many mids are you dedicating to tracking compared to the Geddon, especially considering the tempest's wealth of mid slots. Did you also keep in mind most Tachyon geddons have TWO reactor control units?
Sounds like numbers out of your anus to me.
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Zenst
Gallente
Omniscient Order
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.11.13 21:32:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Zenst on 13/11/2007 21:35:22
Originally by: Rastigan
Tracking computer II / Test Tracking Computer II
PG: 1 / 1
CPU:35 / 35
Optimal Range: +15% / +7.5%
Tracking: +30% / +15%
With current scripts you can boost one bonus to the level of how it was before, but it zeros out the other bonus.. ie. Optimal range script on the test server would give you +15% range and +0% tracking..
Sensor Booster II / Test Sensor Booster II
PG: 1 / 1
CPU: 10 / 10
Scan Resolution: +60% / +30%
Targeting Range: +60% / +30%
The same hit, with similar scripts..
Did these modules really need a 50% nerf ???
A better change for example would have been chaging the SB II to +45%/+45% with a script changing the bonuses to +60%/+30%
Did the test crew forget that these modules are stacking nerfed ? Or that cutting a modules (which in no means was considered overpowered) effectiveness in half is not just a nerf, but a total neutering...
I hope the CPU requirements will at least be lowered to reflect the lowering in the modules effectiveness.
interesting changes - Interesting indeed and would make ships more tuned to there class/role. In that respect I like it; That said what I dont like will be the counter of swarms of ceptors and fighters given the direction were going. Totaly negating the battleships in many fights were this would be a factor.
The other people to gain will be builders who will sell alot that week and with the way things are looking I sence ALOT of people buying NPC shuttles to refine enmass, etc etc.
Now if these dont apply to remote counterparts as in remote sensor boosting or long shot here, using the midslots on a oneries for non cap recharge fittings and having remote tracking computers. Now if thats the case and they dont require scripts THEN, and only then will I be excited by these changes. Reason being it will encourage eve to be played how it should, as a team. Though either way this will hurt the single account people mission running types more than most. Oh and the only real gain will be mass frigate gangs who can still track everything and become less trackable even more so. Need for speed was iirc to reduce speed ships albiet with these changes I can see were there comming from and it does make sence. Reduce the effective client/server interestion and slow the tempo down in the long run, in a way that makes ships work within there roles. That said I still see doms only able to fit medium guns still 
Knock on effect is going to make more wavey graphs and pdf speculation and views of wireframe mountains.
[EDIT ADD] WAhooo I can use blaster ships again }->
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Everybody is a potentual victim, not everybody is a potentual survivour.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.11.13 21:45:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Byzan Zwyth
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
I fail to see how snipers being unable to insta lock is a bad thing.
after the nerf sniper BS will take much longer to lock, you think anyone smart enough to notice 20+ battleships locken them 150km away is not just going to warp out?
Seems stupid to me, damps maybe needed a nerf. But it looks to me like they gon nerfed too hard. Then sensor boosters and tracking computers get nerfed as well?
WTF CCP? Nanoships are still a problem and you nerf tracking... Think about it.
seriously, wtf? 
are you honestly trying to tell me that a fleet of sniper BSes should be able to forgo needing to have dedicate tackle ships by just fitting more sensor boosters?
Dictors. Heavy dictors. Interceptors. YOUR FRIENDS, THEY ARE!!!
Originally by: Snuggly
It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Altaica Amur
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Posted - 2007.11.13 21:48:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Sounds like numbers out of your anus to me.
He's probably forgetting that now he'll need an extra sensor booster scripted to resolution to lock before DT.
I also agree that specialization of tasks is cool but then let me do with one scripted sensor booster what used to take two and likewise with range and tracking. You don't build up specializations simply by removing capabilities, you do it by lowering some and raising others ffs.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.11.13 21:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Veng3ance
Edited by: Veng3ance on 13/11/2007 21:21:42
Originally by: Bein Glorious
Originally by: Veng3ance
Are you guys joking me? A boost to Amarr?! How!?
Amarr battleships have the lowest amount of mid-slots compared to any race. Ontop of that we have neither a range bonus or tracking bonus battleship.
This is a terribly hard nerf to sniping Amarr battleships, which was basically the only thing going for Amarr still
A tachyon armageddon after this scripting change will track 76% better than a 1400mm tempest with optimal range scripts. Right now, the geddon only tracks about 12% better than that tempest. Is that a good enough stealth boost for you?
And you getting this numbers from where? And with what setup? How many mids are you dedicating to tracking compared to the Geddon, especially considering the tempest's wealth of mid slots. Did you also keep in mind most Tachyon geddons have TWO reactor control units?
Sounds like numbers out of your anus to me.
No I think he might be right. Its a stealth boost for apoc!!! Now that the geddon will be hard to make sniping viable with tachs we have to use apoc. Apoc is sexy good....
*cry*
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bundy bear
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Posted - 2007.11.13 22:32:00 -
[40]
Amarr get hits twice as its close range weapons also depend on optimal range.
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Grif Oberwald
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Posted - 2007.11.13 22:59:00 -
[41]
I might be way off track with this but will this not increase the use of passive targeters in sniping, as you will need to hide who you are locking to stop them from warping out, whereas before it didn't matter as much as the lock time was faster, especially with multiple sensor boosters?
Wouldn't this change therfore bring greater variety to the required tactics?
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Rialtor
Amarr
Yarrrateers
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:25:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kruel
I think all the nerfs lately are pretty damn weak. It's like taking a toy away from a baby.
Boosts > Nerfs.
Boosts and Nerfs are the same beast, being that everything is relative. If you boost lasers, other weapon systems become nerfed. If you nerf lasers the other weapon system are then boosted. It's just a psychological effect/illusion that if boosts happen nothing was nerfed. You have to realize that everything in gaming is relative.
If they boost NPC dmg by 400%, we all just got nerfed. If all races dmg expect Caldari got boosted by 10% Caldari still got a nerf. If you always employ a boosting strategy you may come to a situation in which to change 1 ship you must look at so many other factors that the change is impossible. Sometimes the quickest way is to nerf as opposed to a boost, but in the end they're balancing things relative to each other. So the idea of a boost and nerf is a similar one.
---- sig ----
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world... Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. |
Dzajic
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:26:00 -
[43]
Be real, this wont bring more interesting long range and mid range fights. This will just push more engagements into <20km range.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.11.13 23:27:00 -
[44]
Originally by: bundy bear
Amarr get hits twice as its close range weapons also depend on optimal range.
tracking enhancers (low slot) has NOT been changed, and gives same optimal bonus that tracking computers do now, pre-change.
so geddon could go with
7x tachs
3x sensor boosters scripted to liking
4x tracking enhancers, 2x rcus2, 2x heat sink 2s
the lack of plates is disturbing tho.
Originally by: Snuggly
It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Selena Banks
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Posted - 2007.11.14 00:17:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Selena Banks on 14/11/2007 00:17:12
I must have missed the memo, but what are scripts?
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.14 01:07:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
seriously, wtf?
are you honestly trying to tell me that a fleet of sniper BSes should be able to forgo needing to have dedicate tackle ships by just fitting more sensor boosters?
Dictors. Heavy dictors. Interceptors. YOUR FRIENDS, THEY ARE!!!
What does lock speed have to do with tackling ?
Most fleet fights either involve bubbles at the gate or interdictor bubbles on the fleet, if not its just warp in and out ,or warp from peep to peep at the gate, regardless of how fast the sniper locks.
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Gorthauran
Amarr
Throne of Tragedy
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Posted - 2007.11.14 02:48:00 -
[47]
So these scripts affect the whole meta range of said modules yeah? Wont this kill the faction and officer modules or at least nerf their value a lot?
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Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.14 13:25:00 -
[48]
Cant see the point tbh small change for a small change imho. Surely CCP has more important things to fix before doing this.
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Pattonator
Valiant Logistics Inc.
EternalRising
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:16:00 -
[49]
I don't understand why any nerf for anything.
Every time I start training for something because I think its ubber CCP nerfs it before i get to use it at its fullest power.
Let's nerf whining. Anybody who starts asking for nerfs gets their acct nerfed and all gates in low sec or 0.0 are locked to them. Leave the whiners in high sec and leave the ships and mods the way that they are.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:10:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Ulstan on 14/11/2007 20:11:40
Quote:
Every time I start training for something because I think its ubber CCP nerfs it before i get to use it at its fullest power.
Well, DUH.
Don't be the last man to jump aboard the FOTM mobile.
As far as these specific changes go, they make me a little sad in that my ship will now have to choose between locking faster or locking farther away, but I can completely understand why they were doing it. Sensor boosters were a complete no brainer for large ships and made them lock as fast as small ships, and from much farther away.
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