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Sentinal, thanks CCP for a damn powerful Amarr frigate

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HarryManback Minmatar Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:12:00 - [1] I really what I'm seeing in this new ship with its 4 mid slots for TDs, MWD, the low slots for Cap Power Relays and the highs for a few neuts/noses. But the what really makes this ship powerful is its 60m3 drone bay. God bless CCP for finally giving amarr a dominating frigate. Fielding 5 med drones in a frigate is unheard of. I really think it can put out a great deal of damage. Unfortunately this since the NOS nerf it's high slots wont be uber effective (due to neuts energy need and NOS genuine ineffectiveness) but i think it will still be what the title says: a damn powerful amarr frigate. Discuss...
Sevis	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:15:00 - [2] I thought that ship had a 20mbit drone bandwidth? Can't it only fly 4x light drones?
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:17:00 - [3] Originally by: Sevis I thought that ship had a 20mbit drone bandwidth? Can't it only fly 4x light drones? You are right, as the other amarr drone boats, it has room for 3 flights of drones. The sentinel sucks man. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Talla Hurzin	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:18:00 - [4] Edited by: Talla Hurzin on 12/11/2007 23:22:10 Edited by: Talla Hurzin on 12/11/2007 23:19:12 Originally by: HarryManback But the what really makes this ship powerful is its 60m3 drone bay. God bless CCP for finally giving amarr a dominating frigate. Fielding 5 med drones in a frigate is unheard of. I really think it can put out a great deal of damage. You might want to look at that drone bay a bit harder. It has a 20m/bit drone bandwidth limit. That means it can only field 2 medium sized drones of any type, or 4 light drones of any type. That 60m3 drone bay is for replacements or variation. The Sentinel is an E-WAR platform through and through. The best use of that drone bay is filling it with ECM drones, or maybe even neut drones for MORE cap denial. As for it sucking? No way, it's going to be really good in small gang warfare. It can nos/neut outside of web range, with an AB and 2x overdrives it gets just over 1.2km/sec, its rack of TD's will cripple the big ships going after it, and if any interceptor gets close it can nos/neut its cap or sic 4 light ECM drones on it.
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:19:00 - [5] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Sevis I thought that ship had a 20mbit drone bandwidth? Can't it only fly 4x light drones? You are right, as the other amarr drone boats, it has room for 3 flights of drones. The sentinel sucks man. ---------------------------------- shinsushi > CCP, this game is too hard for me. Please change it so I can win. Please. I have never won at anything before. Take pity on me and pass the tissues.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Talla Hurzin Edited by: Talla Hurzin on 12/11/2007 23:22:10 Edited by: Talla Hurzin on 12/11/2007 23:19:12 Originally by: HarryManback But the what really makes this ship powerful is its 60m3 drone bay. God bless CCP for finally giving amarr a dominating frigate. Fielding 5 med drones in a frigate is unheard of. I really think it can put out a great deal of damage. You might want to look at that drone bay a bit harder. It has a 20m/bit drone bandwidth limit. That means it can only field 2 medium sized drones of any type, or 4 light drones of any type. That 60m3 drone bay is for replacements or variation. The Sentinel is an E-WAR platform through and through. The best use of that drone bay is filling it with ECM drones, or maybe even neut drones for MORE cap denial. As for it sucking? No way, it's going to be really good in small gang warfare. It can nos/neut outside of web range, with an AB and 2x overdrives it gets just over 1.2km/sec, its rack of TD's will cripple the big ships going after it, and if any interceptor gets close it can nos/neut its cap or sic 4 light ECM drones on it. A AB setup, thats not a bad idea at all. 1.2 km/s and no signature increase will make them hard to track. Combined with the low capusage of the AB this gives you enough energy to use EW modules (your main defence). Good idea, might check that out. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:33:00 - [7] How about a flight of light drones? I wonder how long this ship will last against them.... esp in your AB nano config. 30secs? An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:40:00 - [8] Originally by: shinsushi How about a flight of light drones? I wonder how long this ship will last against them.... esp in your AB nano config. 30secs? Talking about EW frigs in general. But what do you propose than? I can imagine plating it allthough that feels wrong with frigs. With a mwd i dont think you can get it cap stabile right? Allthough the ammarian has a nossing bonus, maybe that one can become capstabile with mwd and nos. Still i think a AB would work, the low sig im combination with the EW warfare should be enough for the heavier ships to take agro in gang and than field these little buggers. Looking forward to all of them tbh _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:44:00 - [9] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: shinsushi How about a flight of light drones? I wonder how long this ship will last against them.... esp in your AB nano config. 30secs? Talking about EW frigs in general. But what do you propose than? I can imagine plating it allthough that feels wrong with frigs. With a mwd i dont think you can get it cap stabile right? Allthough the ammarian has a nossing bonus, maybe that one can become capstabile with mwd and nos. Still i think a AB would work, the low sig im combination with the EW warfare should be enough for the heavier ships to take agro in gang and than field these little buggers. Looking forward to all of them tbh The amarr frig is by far the worst one. Even with the nos/neut bonus its a FRIG with FRIG sized nos/neuts. Now if it got a bonus to fitting/using heavy neuts that'd be different. You're not gonna be cap stable and with the TD nerf the frig will be pretty pointless. Oh and there is no way you can lock down the entire enemy gang, you'd have to have an absurd amount of EW(and far superior numbers). 5 Valk IIs will kill that hypothetical AB setup in 5 seconds flat.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:46:00 - [10] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: shinsushi How about a flight of light drones? I wonder how long this ship will last against them.... esp in your AB nano config. 30secs? Talking about EW frigs in general. But what do you propose than? I can imagine plating it allthough that feels wrong with frigs. With a mwd i dont think you can get it cap stabile right? Allthough the ammarian has a nossing bonus, maybe that one can become capstabile with mwd and nos. Still i think a AB would work, the low sig im combination with the EW warfare should be enough for the heavier ships to take agro in gang and than field these little buggers. Looking forward to all of them tbh It will suffer from the same problems as the curse/pilgrim now, except that tracking disruptors don't do much anymore (not like they ever did to ACs anyway). With this boat you have a problem, the curse/pilgrim and now this boat are designed to run their equipment from the enemy's cap, not their own. There really is no point in flying this ship as it cannot defend itself, won't be cap-stable, and has a weaksauce EW. Fly the hyena instead.. if they send drones for you, no biggie because your so fast it doesn't matter. If any drones do manage to gain on you (lights) blow them up as they approach. Mediums and heavys will not catch the hyena, and ships will not escape from it. Or use the caldari boat and perma-jam a BS, or the gallente boat and increase its locking time to forever, or locking range to well under your RSD range. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: madaluap Originally by: shinsushi How about a flight of light drones? I wonder how long this ship will last against them.... esp in your AB nano config. 30secs? Talking about EW frigs in general. But what do you propose than? I can imagine plating it allthough that feels wrong with frigs. With a mwd i dont think you can get it cap stabile right? Allthough the ammarian has a nossing bonus, maybe that one can become capstabile with mwd and nos. Still i think a AB would work, the low sig im combination with the EW warfare should be enough for the heavier ships to take agro in gang and than field these little buggers. Looking forward to all of them tbh The amarr frig is by far the worst one. Even with the nos/neut bonus its a FRIG with FRIG sized nos/neuts. Now if it got a bonus to fitting/using heavy neuts that'd be different. You're not gonna be cap stable and with the TD nerf the frig will be pretty pointless. Oh and there is no way you can lock down the entire enemy gang, you'd have to have an absurd amount of EW(and far superior numbers). 5 Valk IIs will kill that hypothetical AB setup in 5 seconds flat. Yeh the TD nerf sucks balls. Maybe adding falloff in the TD will unnerf it. Btw i use frigsized nos on my taranis and it really helps out with the capusage. It maybe be a frigsized nos, but it is a frig capacitor aswell. Im not talking about the ammount of "damage" the nos will do. I never claimed that anyone could lock down a entire enemy gang. But what if you added 4 of these to your nano-roam gang, for people cant fly recons yet. I still like em. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:57:00 - [12] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: madaluap Originally by: shinsushi How about a flight of light drones? I wonder how long this ship will last against them.... esp in your AB nano config. 30secs? Talking about EW frigs in general. But what do you propose than? I can imagine plating it allthough that feels wrong with frigs. With a mwd i dont think you can get it cap stabile right? Allthough the ammarian has a nossing bonus, maybe that one can become capstabile with mwd and nos. Still i think a AB would work, the low sig im combination with the EW warfare should be enough for the heavier ships to take agro in gang and than field these little buggers. Looking forward to all of them tbh The amarr frig is by far the worst one. Even with the nos/neut bonus its a FRIG with FRIG sized nos/neuts. Now if it got a bonus to fitting/using heavy neuts that'd be different. You're not gonna be cap stable and with the TD nerf the frig will be pretty pointless. Oh and there is no way you can lock down the entire enemy gang, you'd have to have an absurd amount of EW(and far superior numbers). 5 Valk IIs will kill that hypothetical AB setup in 5 seconds flat. Yeh the TD nerf sucks balls. Maybe adding falloff in the TD will unnerf it. Btw i use frigsized nos on my taranis and it really helps out with the capusage. It maybe be a frigsized nos, but it is a frig capacitor aswell. Im not talking about the ammount of "damage" the nos will do. I never claimed that anyone could lock down a entire enemy gang. But what if you added 4 of these to your nano-roam gang, for people cant fly recons yet. I still like em. 4 hyenas would be 5 times better.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:59:00 - [13] I agree on that gamesguy. Its a shame though. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Talla Hurzin	Posted - 2007.11.13 00:14:00 - [14] Originally by: shinsushi How about a flight of light drones? I wonder how long this ship will last against them.... esp in your AB nano config. 30secs? The Sentinel can get a lock range of 43km+. The maximum drone control range without links is 40km. Base TD optimal range is 40km. It might be a bit tricky for the pilot to stay in locking range but outside of drone control range, but it is possible for the Sentinel to be safe from drones.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.13 00:18:00 - [15] Edited by: madaluap on 13/11/2007 00:18:53 Originally by: Talla Hurzin Originally by: shinsushi How about a flight of light drones? I wonder how long this ship will last against them.... esp in your AB nano config. 30secs? The Sentinel can get a lock range of 43km+. The maximum drone control range without links is 40km. Base TD optimal range is 40km. It might be a bit tricky for the pilot to stay in locking range but outside of drone control range, but it is possible for the Sentinel to be safe from drones. There is a problem and i agree with the amarr guys on it . The caldari and gallente ship can do the EW keep range thing much better. Allthough i think the nano version with nos is still gonna work. Problem lies more in its EW. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.13 00:46:00 - [16] Originally by: Talla Hurzin The maximum drone control range without links is 40km. It's actually 60km. 20km base + 25km from Scout Drones 5, and +15km from EW Drones 5 = 60km with max control range skills. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
HarryManback Minmatar Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2007.11.13 00:57:00 - [17] ouch that's is too bad i hadn't done my homework on drone bandwidth thats too bad. I still dont think 4 light drones is bad tho. I still consider it being a great ship overall with TDs being very effective atm.
Veng3ance Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:12:00 - [18] Originally by: HarryManback ouch that's is too bad i hadn't done my homework on drone bandwidth thats too bad. I still dont think 4 light drones is bad tho. I still consider it being a great ship overall with TDs being very effective atm. Yeah.... to bad Tracking Disruptors are getting a 50% nerf. So... the new T2 Amarr frigate is significantly more useless then the other 3 races. Enjoy
HarryManback Minmatar Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:14:00 - [19] i was not aware of this 50% nerf???
HarryManback Minmatar Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:15:00 - [20] you must be refering to the immanent Damp nerf.
Talla Hurzin	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Talla Hurzin The maximum drone control range without links is 40km. It's actually 60km. 20km base + 25km from Scout Drones 5, and +15km from EW Drones 5 = 60km with max control range skills. Son of a... Okay, I was getting that number from memory. I stand corrected.
HarryManback Minmatar Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:21:00 - [22] also the sentinal can run all three of its neuts permanently with a MWD to burn up 300energy every 6 seconds at over 15kms. That's pretty damn impressive m8.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.11.13 01:21:00 - [23] Originally by: Talla Hurzin Edit button please. And no, ALL FORMS of E-War are getting a nerf in the next patch, not just RSD's. Actually no. Just multi-purpose E-war modules. That means tracking disruptors and Sensor Dampeners (although why Tracking disruptors are getting it beats me. Hopefully things will be rebalanced on the test server before it hits TQ). ECM, NOS (which got nerfed in the last update), Webbing, Warp Scrambling and Target Painting remains unaffected. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.13 02:06:00 - [24] Edited by: Gamesguy on 13/11/2007 02:06:22 Originally by: HarryManback also the sentinal can run all three of its neuts permanently with a MWD to burn up 300energy every 6 seconds at over 15kms. That's pretty damn impressive m8. Please post a setup where the cap holds on the sentinel. You'd need like all cap mods+ccc rigs to run 3 neuts and a mwd(I dont think you can even run the mwd).
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.13 02:32:00 - [25] Quote: although why Tracking disruptors are getting it beats me. Cause they don't work on missiles, and CCP loves their Caldari. Alternately, because damps are being cut in half, devs figured that everyone would go to disrupters next, and pre-emptively nerfed them before someone managed to come up with an Amarr fitting that was actually good.
Lithel The Soviet Galactic Union	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:07:00 - [26] Edited by: Lithel on 13/11/2007 16:07:41 I like the Sentinel. I tried it out on SiSi and almost took out a Zealot 1 on 1. I made the mistake of letting him get within webbing range, he webbed me and toasted my butt. But as long as I kept my tracking disruptors on him, MWD going on and off, and nos/neuts hitting him...the fight was good! (I know, I was fighting an Amarr ship.... PvP'ing against Amarr = Playing EVE in easy mode.) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:15:00 - [27] The only redeeming thing about the sentinel is that its a lot better than most of the other Amarran frigates... Yea, thats all i got.
Arvald Caldari Tutela Of Obscurum	Posted - 2007.11.13 16:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Talla Hurzin Edited by: Talla Hurzin on 13/11/2007 01:16:29 Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Talla Hurzin The maximum drone control range without links is 40km. It's actually 60km. 20km base + 25km from Scout Drones 5, and +15km from EW Drones 5 = 60km with max control range skills. Son of a... Okay, I was getting that number from memory. I stand corrected. Originally by: HarryManback you must be refering to the immanent Damp nerf. Edit button please. And no, ALL FORMS of E-War are getting a nerf in the next patch, not just RSD's. not ecm, we caldari are once again going to be the kings of e-war ...or am i jsut having another one of those paranoid dilusions 0_o --------------------------- Im in your forums derailing your threads
Rashmika Sky	Posted - 2007.11.13 18:13:00 - [29] I must be crazy, but when I look at the Sentinel I see: 2x t2 small neutralizers with the Sentinel's nos/neut bonuses, would neut 200 cap, then in 6 seconds, another 200 cap. Any frigate with a mwd on is probably going to have 400 cap or less, so it should take the Sentinel 6 seconds to cap out any frigate, right? Then send the light drones after it. If it lives longer than 12 seconds after this, hit it with one of the neuts again to keep it from getting the mwd back on. To deal with larger ships the Sentinel could could fit a nos in the third high slot - with Energy Emissions 5, one t2 neut will use a little over 6 cap/second, and with skills the Sentinel will get 6 cap/second from one t2 nos. Against larger ships, it would be a while before a target had less % of cap than a Sentinel, so it would seem possible to keep one nos and neut on a tackled target for a while at least. And this still keeps 2 neuts on the ship to deal with frigates as I described earlier. If you plan to tackle a battleship, just go full nos in the highs, and laugh when they try to neut your mwd off. Not sure how useful tracking disruptors will be, but if those aren't being used, I imagine 2 extra mid slots shouldn't go to waste - cap rechargers perhaps, maybe a cap booster? Would fitting a shield extender give it more survability? Surely there's something to use those slots for. Two things really concern me about the Sentinel, how easy it will be to finish fitting it after using 30pg on the high slots, and the large sig radius (it's fast, but will this screw up its ability to speed tank?). Everyone keeps ragging on this ship though, so I'm beginning to wonder if I'm missing something about it. If I am, somebody please enlighten me so I don't waste my isk. ;) -Rash
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.13 18:39:00 - [30] High tracking on ACs is to counter the fact that fighting in falloff means an inherent 50% accuracy bonus. When you kill its tracking, it loses a lot of that "Counter" from high tracking, and will miss a lot more. ACs hurt from TDs, trust me. TDs don't "omg suck" granted they wont take down everything (Raven, Cerbs) any battleship with turrets will have trouble even tracking a webbed target (Point in case, megathron can't hit anything if hit by even 1-2 TDs as is, which is even more hurt than a sensor damp does.) As for the missile boats.. I can't remember the last time a missile boat actually did me much hurt unless I was in a nanoship that somehow got slowed down anyways. Missiles lose to bruisers because of lack of damage / tank, and they lose to nanos because everything loses to nanos and shield tankers (caldari) dont have webs usually. So Missiles just lose.

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