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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.11.14 18:27:00 -
[1]
Just give us a skillqueue and the ability to change skills (and the queue) from the web browser already.
Who cares if somebody, somehow would "characterfarm" with it ?
Like it's not already happening anyway (see Amber Leone's "project" involving 50 Hulk pilots).
For the sake of "preventing" a problem that's not preventable (and not even "manageable"), we're getting an annoyingly ineffective system when it comes to "short skills".
I mean, seriously, how much worse as it is COULD it get if all of this (webskills and skillqueue) was possible ?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.11.14 18:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/11/2007 18:31:35
I can see both sides of the argument... but in the end I side with you.
I think it happens now a lot already and a skill que wouldn't change that very much.
however pushing to the site might be much but then again... I've never played an mmorpg where my skills go up forever while I do and don't play, would be interesting, to say the least.
Official fanboy of jenny<
pink supporter!
looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
The Herrick
Gallente
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.11.14 18:32:00 -
[3]
Well the billions of people against it would remove all their characters and then everyone who lost an hour of skill training and didn't get compensated would pipe up and also leave. The resulting lack of funds would kill CCP dead.
Are you SURE you want to be responsible for that?
/signed by the way
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Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.14 18:37:00 -
[4]
character farmers can use macros anyway.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Cpt Fina
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.11.14 18:53:00 -
[5]
Yeah a skillqueue would be very nice.
What are a new player supposed to train when he's on a 2 week vacation?
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:04:00 -
[6]
As noted, people already character farm to amazing degrees: you have folks running 36 research alts, or 50 mining alts, etc.
I would settle for a simple and limited skill queue, even without the ability to adjust it through a web interface.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:17:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Malcanis
character farmers can use macros anyway.
... thinks about it...
you know what... that's true! I take it all back this is easily 100% signed in light of that fact.
Official fanboy of jenny<
pink supporter!
looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
Mr Broker
Amarr
Station Gremlings
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:20:00 -
[8]
ban character trading
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mr Broker
ban character trading
so ban that and then out this in?
I like it :)
but then... ebay... evil evil.
sadlly eve doesn't just have isk, real money is part of the game. you use it to pay for time and CCP uses it to pay for servers and as long as players can talk out of game, people will be able to buy and sell accounts.
some will be cuaght others will not.
Official fanboy of jenny<
pink supporter!
looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
Valrandir
Gallente
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:25:00 -
[10]
Adding this would increase the existing character farming by a lot, making characters cheaper to buy and so buying and tradinc characters would become more common, which is bad since it remove identity and uniqueness.
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This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
- Oveur
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Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:31:00 -
[11]
I'm in favor of having at least a very limited skill queue system that would just hold one skill. So that if I miss that 9 hour skill coming back from work standing in traffic or because server is down (through none of my fault clearly) I can have the skill switch to just one other 'emergency' skill.
The issue here isn't character farming. CCP wants you to spend as long a time as possible to reach your goals in game so that you play longer and pay them more. Hence why we still don't have queue system in game, even though it makes perfect sense for us players to have one, many have been asking for it, and it would make 90%+ of player base happier.
guide to game time codes |
Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:31:00 -
[12]
No to skill queue. It's just dumbing down Eve.
Character transfers should be banned too. And GTC <> ISK trades too.
If you don't personally put the work in for something, you shouldn't have it.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Valrandir
Adding this would increase the existing character farming by a lot, making characters cheaper to buy and so buying and tradinc characters would become more common, which is bad since it remove identity and uniqueness.
it still wouldn't be as bad as wow.
or any other grinding mmorpg.
Official fanboy of jenny<
pink supporter!
looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:40:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fink Angel
No to skill queue. It's just dumbing down Eve.
Character transfers should be banned too. And GTC <> ISK trades too.
If you don't personally put the work in for something, you shouldn't have it.
The queue obviously isn't going to decide for you what skill to train next. Most of the 'work' that goes into skill training comprises of sitting there with EVEMon open, reading skill descriptions, making a training plan. Only a player can do this. Switching skill is a 10 second ordeal - put in your user name and password, hit log in, open character sheet, r-click with your mouse, hit train skill, log off. How does doing this 'work' instead of having a skill queue do it for you dumb down EVE?
guide to game time codes |
shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Fink Angel
No to skill queue. It's just dumbing down Eve.
Character transfers should be banned too. And GTC <> ISK trades too.
If you don't personally put the work in for something, you shouldn't have it.
Its not dumbing down eve, its decreasing the amount of stupid micromanagement needed. Sure, people should wake up @ 2 a.m. to complete a skill, or stay logged on for hours upon hours a week to get those 3-6 hour skills done. I thought a big bonus to eve's skill system was to get away from the grind?
Originally by: Valrandir
Adding this would increase the existing character farming by a lot, making characters cheaper to buy and so buying and tradinc characters would become more common, which is bad since it remove identity and uniqueness.
Hmm.... more character farming means less isk per character and less character farming. As it is character farming is barely more lucrative than just selling your GTCs for isk. Your wrong.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Mr Broker
Amarr
Station Gremlings
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: MotherMoon
some will be cuaght others will not.
good enough
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Leora Nomen
How does doing this 'work' instead of having a skill queue do it for you dumb down EVE?
Because you currently have to think. To plan the training around your availability, downtime etc.
You train short skill while you're logged in playing, medium skills overnight or when you go to work, long skills when your going on holiday.
With a skill queue and a new character, I'll buy the skillbook, set all the learning skills to train, and come back in a few weeks with it all done.
Easy mode = dumbing down.
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.11.14 19:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: shinsushi
I thought a big bonus to eve's skill system was to get away from the grind?
To an extent, and it does this well. As a casual player it's one of the reasons I enjoy it as I could never compete with the 1-70 grinders.
I think that queuing skills is just that step too far into automation, and it seems like CCP probably do too, as they've had since 2003 to implement it and haven't chosen to do so.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Originally by: Leora Nomen
How does doing this 'work' instead of having a skill queue do it for you dumb down EVE?
Because you currently have to think. To plan the training around your availability, downtime etc.
You train short skill while you're logged in playing, medium skills overnight or when you go to work, long skills when your going on holiday.
With a skill queue and a new character, I'll buy the skillbook, set all the learning skills to train, and come back in a few weeks with it all done.
Easy mode = dumbing down.
the problem is people allready do this with macros, it's quite east to fine might I add.
while the rest of the non-farming characters have to manually do it. isn't a bit unfair that the people cheating get an advantage while we don't? I mean if they got cuaght that would be different. but there is no way to catch a mouse move that clicks a skill. it's too simple.
Official fanboy of jenny<
pink supporter!
looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:05:00 -
[20]
Sorry to sound like a parent, but to bang out the old phrase "Just because some people do that, it doesn't make it alright or mean everyone else should do it".
Why not macro the whole game in that case? I find targetting rats and pressing F1-F8 very dull, and it's such a grind to get ISK this way.
... how far do we go?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Sorry to sound like a parent, but to bang out the old phrase "Just because some people do that, it doesn't make it alright or mean everyone else should do it".
Why not macro the whole game in that case? I find targetting rats and pressing F1-F8 very dull, and it's such a grind to get ISK this way.
... how far do we go?
well you have a point there, but I don't see what is wrong with a simple you can que up two skills in a row or even just the one idea of I can change my skills from a website because I can't get to school.. you know what I mean?
yeah I don't like the idea of insta skill 24/7, I just said it would be interesting.
Official fanboy of jenny<
pink supporter!
looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
Guttripper
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:07:00 -
[22]
Instead of allowing the queue to complete the skill, perhaps it could halt the skill at 10% of the remaining total skill points required for that level. Then the next requested skill in line would begin and again, halt at the 10% remaining mark. The remaining 10% of missing skill points the player would have to "work off" since it would not be allowed in the queue. Thus a player could not set two subsequent skills and then return a long while later being more advanced without involving a bit of "work".
Just a thought.
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: MotherMoon
well you have a point there, but I don't see what is wrong with a simple you can que up two skills in a row or even just the one idea of I can change my skills from a website because I can't get to school.. you know what I mean?
yeah I don't like the idea of insta skill 24/7, I just said it would be interesting.
I can't see a major problem with queuing up one skill. I'm against dumping an Evemon queue into the game, walking away and coming back a year later with a fully baked character.
That system is for people who call their characters "toons".
An Eve character should be lovingly nurtured along every step of their piloting career.
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Ser Prius
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:25:00 -
[24]
I don't think there should be a character queue, but agree that the current system is horrible, forcing you to log on at inapproriate times or plan contorted sequences of training so you don't lose time. My recommendation is to simply NOT DISCONTINUE TRAINING A SKILL AT EACH LEVEL, if you finish level 1 go on to 2, 3, 4, and 5 without stopping. If you get to the end of Level 5 then it will stop just as it does right now.
Training a bit of an extra level is better than leaving you char not training anything for 8 hours because Tranquility is down for a security incident or an ISP outage.
Ser
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Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:25:00 -
[25]
!!! SAY NO TO SKILLQUEUE !!!
You allready have a skill-system, where you can get on a 4 weeks holiday, while training Battleship Level 5. Allowing for queued skills would increase that to an extend, where I can put 6 month trainingtime without logging in a single time.
EvE should be played, not AFKed.
.
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ser Prius
... My recommendation is to simply NOT DISCONTINUE TRAINING A SKILL AT EACH LEVEL, if you finish level 1 go on to 2, 3, 4, and 5 without stopping. If you get to the end of Level 5 then it will stop just as it does right now.
That's pretty clever. Gets my vote as it fixes the problem caused by ISP outage (*), unplanned downtime etc. while not allowing an AFK character creation plan.
(*) To which I lost 14+ hours training yesterday, but such is life.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:52:00 -
[27]
Skill queue, 1 deep, and the ability to change it from the Eve Website. You can even have the website changes be delayed and updated to TQ in hourly batches, I don't care. I just want to be able to change from a public computer lab if I can't get to my own PC for some reason.
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FIRST!! -Yipsilanti
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.11.14 20:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Originally by: MotherMoon
well you have a point there, but I don't see what is wrong with a simple you can que up two skills in a row or even just the one idea of I can change my skills from a website because I can't get to school.. you know what I mean?
yeah I don't like the idea of insta skill 24/7, I just said it would be interesting.
I can't see a major problem with queuing up one skill. I'm against dumping an Evemon queue into the game, walking away and coming back a year later with a fully baked character.
That system is for people who call their characters "toons".
An Eve character should be lovingly nurtured along every step of their piloting career.
Thats what I would like, primary/secondary skill queue. This way I could kill some of those 3-6 hour skills and if there is ever an unscheduled downtime or extended downtimes, I am covered. At that point no one should complain about missing skill time because it would be a mute point
Someone said to disable this feature when an account becomes inactive. Thats pretty simple.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Nicho Void
Gallente
Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.11.14 21:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Fink Angel
No to skill queue. It's just dumbing down Eve.
Character transfers should be banned too. And GTC <> ISK trades too.
If you don't personally put the work in for something, you shouldn't have it.
QFT.
The concept of playing the game without having to play the game is absolutely astounding to me. We need to stop catering to the instant gratification mentality.
No to changing a skill anywhere but in game (playing the game outside of the game).
No to being able to queue up skills (having the game play for you).
No to character transfers (another person plays the game for you).
No to Money -> GTC -> isk flow (buying the game).
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.11.14 21:53:00 -
[30]
I just had my internet knocked out for 2 weeks thanks to a storm. Soley due to this i say we need skill queues now
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