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madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.16 19:43:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: AliasXNeo
/Signed
My biggie is the price. I have the skills to fly a freighter but it would be about 3 months of constant saving before I would be able properly afford one. A middleman IS needed.
Thats 10 mil a day....If you make 10 mil a day, a iteron 5 is good enough tbh.
Allthough a middleclass hauler is a excellent idea.
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:03:00 -
[32]
I do mineral trading with an alt that flies freighters and transports.
Very often a trade that appears attractive at first glance is a non-starter.
Typical scenario:
Trit sell order 15m units @ 3.00 ISK per unit (sell orders tend to be low volume)
Trit buy order 200m units @ 3.30 ISK per unit (buy orders tend to be high volume)
Round trip is 12 jumps (commodity sellers >6 jumps from a market hub tend to save the opportunity cost of hauling by selling at a discount)
Even though the margin is 10%, that's only a 4.5m payout for a freighter run, or three trips in a transport. Without a way of transporting the minerals in one trip in something a bit more nimble, it's pointless. Those minerals are stranded.
The same is true of Pyerite, Mexallon, and numerous trade goods and commodities which need to be moved in bulk to offer good ISK/hour. There is a large region described by cargo volume, margin and distance which is a "dead zone" as far as shipping profitability is concerned.
Naturally there should always be regions of poor return, otherwise the economics are too rigged to be believable, but right now that region is too damn huge because transportation is bounded at two extremes:
900,000 m^3 @ 0.6 au/s
35,000 m^3 @ 3 au/s
Bit of a problem there.
Logoffs
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AliasXNeo
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:04:00 -
[33]
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: AliasXNeo
/Signed
My biggie is the price. I have the skills to fly a freighter but it would be about 3 months of constant saving before I would be able properly afford one. A middleman IS needed.
Thats 10 mil a day....If you make 10 mil a day, a iteron 5 is good enough tbh.
Allthough a middleclass hauler is a excellent idea.
10mil a DAY. At times I may be away from the game a good week or two from business trips and what not. It's beside the point though, my point was that going from a Itty V to a freighter is a HUGE gap. A "mini-freighter" for 500~mil would be affordable for me and would most likely increase my profits so that I can go for the bigger frieghter.
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~ AKA Josh ~
- Battleclinic Staff Developer -
* CANT NERF ME *
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:56:00 -
[34]
It wouldn't even have to be 100k m3. Even 70-90k m3 base would be a huge step in the right direction.
Right now the gulf is unreasonably large: seriously, it would be like having nothing between destroyers and carriers, or nothing between a mining bantam and the rorqual.
MMO's need to support incremental steps. There are no incremental steps between teeny tiny freighters and gigantor slowass enormous freighters.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.11.16 22:27:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 16/11/2007 22:30:03
The difference in warp speed, mass and agility is as big a killer. You can't really address cargo hold volume without addressing the properties that go with it. Otherwise you just get a discounted freighter with dead weight cargo. It would be like asking for a van and getting an articulated lorry 90% packed with hardened foam, for the price of a van. Uh... van please.
Logoffs
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pyr8t
GUNS AND BUTTER
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Posted - 2007.11.16 23:15:00 -
[36]
The gap is so obvious, why hasn't CCP given us one? I honestly do not understand.
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Vakillion
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Posted - 2007.11.17 00:22:00 -
[37]
Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
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Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2007.11.17 02:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vakillion
Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
I own two Charons. I still believe that a smaller mid-size ship is needed.
I think Cmdr Sy's post best sums it up. It's simply not economical to move a lot of goods - partuclarly low-end minerals.
Even if, as you suggest, you pay someone else to move stuff in their freighter, you're then introducing yet another cost in the process - paying another person to move your goods - and the payment you offer needs to be sufficient for that freighter pilot to actually want to move it for you. This basically brings you back to square one of Cmdr Sy's post. Any freighter pilot worth his salt is going to want a payment that justifies their time and effort - which is highly likely going to remove any benefit (or profit) of paying someone else to move it. And lets not even mention the collateral prices.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.11.17 04:58:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Vakillion
Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
Except for the part where most people in this thread already own freighters. We can already cart bajillions of m3 around the universe. We just can't haul amounts between small and bajillions. That's the problem, genius.
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Disco Flint
Caldari
Disco Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.17 07:26:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Disco Flint on 17/11/2007 07:27:48
Originally by: Vakillion
Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
yo, f*cktard, who will haul me my stuff through lowsec and 0.0? My valuable stuff, stuff that's probably not only valuable but also hard to replace OUT OF HIGHSEC, stuff I wouldn't entrust anybody with even for a collateral, just because it's a load of work to get it all together again in lowsec or 0.0.
Sure, if someone were to rip the contract and take my stuff I'd be none the poorer, but I'd have to get through all the friggin trouble of getting the **** together again. It's hard enough as it is to find a trustworthy hauler willing to haul your minerals through unsecure space, much less someone willing to do it for an affordable price while paying the bajillions you have to demand as collateral.
Logistics out of highsec can pull quite a strain on a small corp or an individual, and I mean especially the current middle ground between industrials and freighters, where one had to either do the route 10 times or skill up and pay up for a freighter.
Hauling as a profession? Sure, give me some kind of log that shows how many contracts were successfully concluded and how many weren't. Give me a possibility of evaluating the freight service other than some Alt telling me 'yo, this guy's cool'. As of now I just can't be sure. Might be a trustworthy person willing to help me out or it might be the next best scammer, hoping for too low calculated collaterals. And you know the rule in EVE: don't trust anybody with anything unless you can kick their balls in RL.
So next time you're about to hit that reply button with nothing but bull to say, please, go make yourself a sandwich or something and spare us your enlightenment.
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Disco Flint
Caldari
Disco Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.17 07:32:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Vakillion
Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
Oh, and please think of your own reply here when you got 100-200k to move, 13 jumps through unsafe space, with no carrier able to jump-haul for you. Then tell me again that logistics here are easy peasy, that moving items around is simply a stupid matter of time and easily done. That it's anywhere near a walk in the park.
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Ottman
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Posted - 2007.11.17 08:41:00 -
[42]
well i dont talk about a smaller freighter that has to take the risk using gates in low sec.
i talk about a ship around 200 k cargo space that can use a sort of jump drive, has a minimum jump range of 5 lj, is an own ship class and t1 to make it affordable.
should be sorted in between iteron 5 and freighter when we talk about ship size.
it should be made for ppl to give them a payable option to sustain their 0.0 business, whatever kind of goods shall be transported.
the current t2 freighter called jump freighter is a nice prototype design but far away from affordable what simply disqualify it for most ppl.
remember we just talk about simply flying cargo space, no unneeded luxurary, simple, effective and affordable should it be.
nothing against ccp's dreams about t2 capital ships, but please not at this point, thats better brought in later into eve, now we need affordable solutions, no dreams ccp, sorry to say that.
MfG ottman
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Adunh Slavy
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.17 08:43:00 -
[43]
/Signed
Sign this one too, http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=234417
Very old
-AS
The Real Space Initiative (Forum Link) |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:40:00 -
[44]
Bump for visibility. Rowboat >>> cargo ship is disjointed progression, so's T2 indy >>> freighter.
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xAnimAx
Gallente
Madhatters Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.19 07:19:00 -
[45]
/signed
A mini freigther is very needed, I think players already expressed theire opinion about this, and if there was a official poll about this subject, I bet more then half the EVE players would agree.
Its time for CCP to either present a strong reason why not to add them, or just add them. If players feedback has always been important to EVE why ignore this major issue?
We need some answers from CCP.
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Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar
Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2007.11.19 17:10:00 -
[46]
Hey hey, this is heading down the pages far too fast.
Its not disappearing before it gets noticed
Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.11.23 04:36:00 -
[47]
I was flying my BUFF (big ugly fat... freighter) around to pick up stuff that's 10x too large for my Impel and 5x too small for my freighter, and I thought of this thread.
Back to the top.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.12.07 05:40:00 -
[48]
Another day, another load that's 2 1/2 times larger than a decked out Impel, but waaay too small to justify pulling out the freighter. Thusly, another bump.
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Skavenger
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Posted - 2007.12.07 06:00:00 -
[49]
yea we need a middleman, but instead of making a whole new ship what would be wrong with modifying the t2 ships to holding a lot more?
yea its a little unrealistic that ship sizes dont change but they hold more, or better yet make the ships bigger and call em t2 who cares. look at the iteron line up, all t1 all change in size they just get a number on them, so do that with t2, but all races not just one.
or we have two t2 transports right, why do both have crap cargo? sure one should be a runner but the other should actually be a transport of goods, like a train or big ass cargo ship (maybe thats more like a freighter)
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RoadKill101
Gallente
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2007.12.07 07:59:00 -
[50]
to be honest, if u wanna transport a BS.. jump in it with x3-4 WCS's and fit for speed. it sounds like more of a waste of time to rebuild another freighter
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llama's rule! |
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Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.12.07 08:24:00 -
[51]
/SIGNED
Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
[BEES] |
coeathal vega
Gallente
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.07 11:47:00 -
[52]
transport a bs? a carrier can fit 2 in the ship mainetance bay now, can jump far and costs 1 bil. middleman enough?
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Dinslan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.07 12:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: coeathal vega
transport a bs? a carrier can fit 2 in the ship mainetance bay now, can jump far and costs 1 bil. middleman enough?
For transporting Battleships, yes.
For transporting generic goods, minerals etc. No.
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Cadman Weyland
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.07 12:53:00 -
[54]
Mini freighter... yes please.
Been asking for one of these ever since the originals came into the game.
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.07 13:34:00 -
[55]
Seems totally fair enough. I wholeheartly agree there should be a stepping stone for this wide divide in size.
/signed.
(If we are signing this, wouldn't this thread be better off in the ideas/suggestions forum?)
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HarryManback
Minmatar
Conniving Opportunist
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:29:00 -
[56]
If only there were a ship that was better than a hauler but worse then a freighter. I would call it a transport ship.
Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:36:00 -
[57]
The need for *something* between puny industrials and mammoth freighters is even more apparent with the hamhanded and illogically applied module size increases CCP has dished out.
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000Hunter000
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:39:00 -
[58]
Edited by: 000Hunter000 on 07/12/2007 18:43:06
This has been asked for and generally ignored by ccp for a long LOOONGG time allready.
I have yet to see a realy game upsetting drawback from such a ship, and apparently most of the players seem to agree it would be lovely, so i can't understand why ccp tries to ignore this request tbh. 
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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J Corwin
Gallente
Middleton and Mercer LLP
The Omni Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.07 20:11:00 -
[59]
seems like a great idea. I'd love a smoother progression, it's pretty hard to make the money for a freighter from operating a hauler, which isn't true for any other ship type.
/signed.
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Maxpie
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2007.12.07 21:00:00 -
[60]
/signed. Btw, I can both afford and fly a freighter but I don't have one because trying to get anywhere is akin to waiting in the dentist's office with 14 people ahead of you. An in-between mini type freighter is something I would get.
He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things. |
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