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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.11.15 00:59:00 -
[1]
I pretty much expected CCP to introduce a new set of freighters in Rev III (trinity?). I can honestly say I never expected T2 jump freighters. But that aside, I was really hoping for a smaller, slightly faster (both in warp and align time), less expensive (like 30% of the cost of a regular freighter) mini-freighter that would allow someone to move one packaged battleship, and maybe a little more, and that's it.
Am I way off base here, or would something like the above described ship class be *WAAAAAYYYYY* more useful/practical for a much larger percentage of the player base, and be used much more often than ultra expensive T2 jump freighters?
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Kassidy Harper
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Posted - 2007.11.15 01:07:00 -
[2]
/signed
Seems to me like the current jump from stacked transport or indy to freighter is kinda large price wise... but then I'm poor and from a small corp lol |
Arktiger
Gallente The Flying Tigers STELLAR LEGION
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Posted - 2007.11.15 01:31:00 -
[3]
/Signed
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Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2007.11.15 01:40:00 -
[4]
The jump from Industrial/Transport capacity (20-40k m3) to Freighter capacity (700-950k m3) is pretty stupid. There does need to be a middleman ship, and preferrably one that doesn't have the stupid freighter penalties (no fittings, can't move cargo in space, etc).
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.15 01:43:00 -
[5]
It should have nothing but one low so you can decide on a DCU2 or a cargo expander. Then we can lol when people come to the forum complaining about a suicide gank when they werent carrying thier briefcase.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.11.15 01:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Firkragg It should have nothing but one low so you can decide on a DCU2 or a cargo expander. Then we can lol when people come to the forum complaining about a suicide gank when they werent carrying thier briefcase.
This
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.11.15 03:34:00 -
[7]
Quote: The jump from Industrial/Transport capacity (20-40k m3) to Freighter capacity (700-950k m3) is pretty stupid. There does need to be a middleman ship
Yep.
It would be like going straight from cruisers to titans.
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.11.15 09:19:00 -
[8]
Definitly. I would love to have a ship which i could use to move my personal stuff around with, indys are far to small while freighter is total overkill. Simply a ship that can move one or two packaged BS and a few t2 ships and lots of modules and stuff.
Carriers dont fit that bill cause they are complete overkill for simply hauling stuff around and cant enter highsec which, lets face it, is where most people have most of their stuff.
Give us a ship with 1/8 of a freighters cargo, for 1/4 of the price, which has a couple of slots based on racial preferences. Lowslots really are not that much of a problem, just make sure that these ships can never exceed 1/4 of a carriers cargospace, in order to keep them from becoming more costeffective.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.15 09:22:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 15/11/2007 09:22:16 An inbetween hauler hull would be nice, yes.
I'd also like to see the cargo cap of the non-blockaderunner transport ships upped a bit, currently they don't give very good bang-vs-buck compared to their t1 versions. They are ridiculously slow, and have a mostly-useless tanking bonus, and on top of that their cargo is typically less than the best t1 version. Doesn't make sense to use them in very many cases.
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catheleen
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:35:00 -
[10]
I think a trailer would be a good idea so you could tow stuff with a BS sized ship or Indy, and you would have to leave it outside overnight so thieving b***ards could steal it when you are asleep! Maybe you could take the wheels off?
Signature pending/tbc.
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Trox Aeze
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:39:00 -
[11]
I've been wanting a turbo-freighter for a long time. Fenrir not quick enough. But I got no plans for forking out 8-10billions for a jump freighter.
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Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2007.11.15 12:14:00 -
[12]
Yep the cheap 150-200K m3 hauler is a ship many, many people want, see the 2+ year thread linked in my sig.
Unfortunatly none of the cool alliances need them so...
Not even a freighter as the skill is too expencive for the ship required, Make it instead a huge transport ship (but T1) give us a reason to train it beyond lvl1.
The analagy I like to use is this; If you want to do a lvl3 mission why use a Dreadnaught? The current haulers are cruiser class, the next one up is a capital ship.
Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys |
adriaans
Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs
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Posted - 2007.11.15 12:53:00 -
[13]
/signed
--sig--
Knowledge is power! |
Jenina Arlath
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Posted - 2007.11.15 12:58:00 -
[14]
With a mini freighter, or rather, large transport, there would also be more import/export of ships between regions.
As it is today, moving and selling ships another place than where you build them is kinda impossible unless you own a freighter, or only build frigate/cruisers, and who wants to move a single frigate to sell it somewhere else anyhow? >.<
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Damneia Achernius
Northen Breeze
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Posted - 2007.11.15 14:29:00 -
[15]
i agree :)
id love for a middle ship between freighter and transports :)
atm i use alot of transport ships... and usually i need like 10-15k more hold to haul it at once :P... but have to do 2 runs :P
i dont want to get a frighter because it way too much isk for me to spend and i wouldnt be makeing it back whit it
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2007.11.15 14:33:00 -
[16]
they would need ot be able to haul just less than 100k m3 or putting up outposts might become to easy, or perhaps 90k before cans are used for example (but including best rigs)
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.11.15 15:15:00 -
[17]
I'd love it if there was something that cost maybe 300-500 mil with about 180k cargospace and two low-slots. Enough grid and CPU to put perhaps a Capital repper on it if necessary, but generally you would rather put a cargo-expander or a DC on it. No high-slots, no rig slots or mids. Or maybe 1 low-slot and two rig slots to represent something that's a bit difficult to modify on the fly.
That would leave you with a maximum cargohold of 292k (with 2 lows) or 330k with 1 low and 2 rig slots. Plus whatever bonus to cargospace you get from ship specific skills. Or the ability to modify it to be somewhat more defensive. DC and a reinforced bulkhead or something if you want to. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary. |
pyr8t
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Posted - 2007.11.15 16:10:00 -
[18]
I've been thinking this for years now! Glad someone finally said it. An enormous gulf exists between industrials and freighters. It's quite illogical actually. What puzzles me greatly, is why hasn't there been more outcry over this from the community? I haven't been around a long time, but this is the first thread I've ever seen on this.
I think we deserve a direct answer from CCP on this. The T2 jump freighter is an astonishing show of o.o favoritism while it's a total slap in the face to the rest...some 72% of eve player's.
To CCP I ask this: why not introduce a ship to bridge the gap? Why?
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.15 16:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Trox Aeze I've been wanting a turbo-freighter for a long time. Fenrir not quick enough. But I got no plans for forking out 8-10billions for a jump freighter.
LOL did you really pick the Fenrir because you thought it would be faster?
In anycase, medium sized freighters have been asked for by quite a few notable people in eve (Archbishop of PIE had a sizable post I belive) but nothing yet. As it stands, a Charon with a frigate/webber support is the best bang for buck. -----------
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.11.16 09:37:00 -
[20]
/Signed.
Bulk hauling is some of the slowest, most tedious work in EVE. A decked out Impel or Occator is still so small that it takes 20 trips to move bulk freight, or a Freighter takes forever to align / warp. Pick your poison.
Something to the tune of 150k-200k cargohold, 1-2 lows optional, 2-3x as fast as a Freighter. As it stands, the previous analogy of going from a Cruiser to a Titan is apt. Jump Freighters are a slap in the face to true dyed-in-the-wool industrialists, as they'll only be toys for the megalliances. Give us a true middle ground hauler.
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Mudkest
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.11.16 10:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Firkragg It should have nothing but one low so you can decide on a DCU2 or a cargo expander. Then we can lol when people come to the forum complaining about a suicide gank when they werent carrying thier briefcase.
or "ZOMG NERF STABS MORE PLX!" when suicide ganker lost their prey cause it had a stab fitted ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie!
For your safety do not destroy vital testing apparatus |
insidion
Caldari Last of the Technocracy
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Posted - 2007.11.16 10:21:00 -
[22]
/signed
PLEASE, this is a pretty straightforward request, and it would be nice if CCP actually addressed some of the concerns from the industrial oriented side of the community for once.
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Evil Incarn8
Amarr Galactic Knights
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Posted - 2007.11.16 11:26:00 -
[23]
Trouble is, although the devs dont intentionally ignore the PvE/Industry side of EvE, they just dont encounter the problems with it on their player accounts as they do with PvP content.
Im sure I heard a dev once say that most of them PvP on their player accounts, which is understandable as living on a barren rock in the middle of the Atlantic will make you want to go out and kill people, there are no trees you see to calm them down.
Anyway as soon as someone points this thread out to them (or the 18page 2 year old thread in features and ideas) then im sure they will give us this ship we all need so badly.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.11.16 11:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Evil Incarn8 Trouble is, although the devs dont intentionally ignore the PvE/Industry side of EvE, they just dont encounter the problems with it on their player accounts as they do with PvP content.
Im sure I heard a dev once say that most of them PvP on their player accounts, which is understandable as living on a barren rock in the middle of the Atlantic will make you want to go out and kill people, there are no trees you see to calm them down.
Anyway as soon as someone points this thread out to them (or the 18page 2 year old thread in features and ideas) then im sure they will give us this ship we all need so badly.
I'm betting the number of devs that have to manage and implement any sort of intensive logistics train can be counted on one hand, with enough fingers left over for an angry gesture or two.
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Kazacy
Caldari The Redeemers
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Posted - 2007.11.16 11:41:00 -
[25]
/signed
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Disco Flint
Caldari Disco Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.16 14:36:00 -
[26]
Every damn time I look at my or the corp hangar I wish for such a ship to exists... ~100k m¦, a few slots, moderately fast and agile... sigh
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2007.11.16 15:17:00 -
[27]
I think that we won't get a "mini-freighter" with cargo 100k+. As I remember an outpost egg is 100k m3 and somewhere they stated that only freighter will be able to deploy them.
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Last Wolf
Templars of Space
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Posted - 2007.11.16 15:59:00 -
[28]
Just don't allow the outpost Egg to be put in the ship. There are a few things where certain items are not allowed in certain ships (like unpacked ships in a frighter, or ships with cargo cans in a carrier.) So It shouldn't be too hard to code.
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Ottman
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Posted - 2007.11.16 17:02:00 -
[29]
well a "mini freighter" with jump capabilities would also be welcome instead that t2 freighter monster called jump freighter that will be quite to expensive, and the jump freighter ccp shows us has too less cargo space for its size i must say, normally i would say the cargo space of this jump freighter is that what i would expect for a "mini jump freighter" and not for a jump freighter >><<
MfG ottman
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AliasXNeo
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.16 19:22:00 -
[30]
/Signed
My biggie is the price. I have the skills to fly a freighter but it would be about 3 months of constant saving before I would be able properly afford one. A middleman IS needed. ------------------------------ ~ AKA Josh ~ - Battleclinic Staff Developer - * CANT NERF ME * ------------------------------
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.16 19:43:00 -
[31]
Originally by: AliasXNeo /Signed
My biggie is the price. I have the skills to fly a freighter but it would be about 3 months of constant saving before I would be able properly afford one. A middleman IS needed.
Thats 10 mil a day....If you make 10 mil a day, a iteron 5 is good enough tbh.
Allthough a middleclass hauler is a excellent idea. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:03:00 -
[32]
I do mineral trading with an alt that flies freighters and transports.
Very often a trade that appears attractive at first glance is a non-starter.
Typical scenario:
Trit sell order 15m units @ 3.00 ISK per unit (sell orders tend to be low volume) Trit buy order 200m units @ 3.30 ISK per unit (buy orders tend to be high volume) Round trip is 12 jumps (commodity sellers >6 jumps from a market hub tend to save the opportunity cost of hauling by selling at a discount)
Even though the margin is 10%, that's only a 4.5m payout for a freighter run, or three trips in a transport. Without a way of transporting the minerals in one trip in something a bit more nimble, it's pointless. Those minerals are stranded.
The same is true of Pyerite, Mexallon, and numerous trade goods and commodities which need to be moved in bulk to offer good ISK/hour. There is a large region described by cargo volume, margin and distance which is a "dead zone" as far as shipping profitability is concerned.
Naturally there should always be regions of poor return, otherwise the economics are too rigged to be believable, but right now that region is too damn huge because transportation is bounded at two extremes:
900,000 m^3 @ 0.6 au/s
35,000 m^3 @ 3 au/s
Bit of a problem there.
Logoffs
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AliasXNeo
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:04:00 -
[33]
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: AliasXNeo /Signed
My biggie is the price. I have the skills to fly a freighter but it would be about 3 months of constant saving before I would be able properly afford one. A middleman IS needed.
Thats 10 mil a day....If you make 10 mil a day, a iteron 5 is good enough tbh.
Allthough a middleclass hauler is a excellent idea.
10mil a DAY. At times I may be away from the game a good week or two from business trips and what not. It's beside the point though, my point was that going from a Itty V to a freighter is a HUGE gap. A "mini-freighter" for 500~mil would be affordable for me and would most likely increase my profits so that I can go for the bigger frieghter. ------------------------------ ~ AKA Josh ~ - Battleclinic Staff Developer - * CANT NERF ME * ------------------------------
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.11.16 20:56:00 -
[34]
It wouldn't even have to be 100k m3. Even 70-90k m3 base would be a huge step in the right direction.
Right now the gulf is unreasonably large: seriously, it would be like having nothing between destroyers and carriers, or nothing between a mining bantam and the rorqual.
MMO's need to support incremental steps. There are no incremental steps between teeny tiny freighters and gigantor slowass enormous freighters.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.11.16 22:27:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 16/11/2007 22:30:03
The difference in warp speed, mass and agility is as big a killer. You can't really address cargo hold volume without addressing the properties that go with it. Otherwise you just get a discounted freighter with dead weight cargo. It would be like asking for a van and getting an articulated lorry 90% packed with hardened foam, for the price of a van. Uh... van please.
Logoffs
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pyr8t
GUNS AND BUTTER
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Posted - 2007.11.16 23:15:00 -
[36]
The gap is so obvious, why hasn't CCP given us one? I honestly do not understand.
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Vakillion
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Posted - 2007.11.17 00:22:00 -
[37]
Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
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Polly Prissypantz
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Posted - 2007.11.17 02:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vakillion Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
I own two Charons. I still believe that a smaller mid-size ship is needed.
I think Cmdr Sy's post best sums it up. It's simply not economical to move a lot of goods - partuclarly low-end minerals.
Even if, as you suggest, you pay someone else to move stuff in their freighter, you're then introducing yet another cost in the process - paying another person to move your goods - and the payment you offer needs to be sufficient for that freighter pilot to actually want to move it for you. This basically brings you back to square one of Cmdr Sy's post. Any freighter pilot worth his salt is going to want a payment that justifies their time and effort - which is highly likely going to remove any benefit (or profit) of paying someone else to move it. And lets not even mention the collateral prices.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.11.17 04:58:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Vakillion Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
Except for the part where most people in this thread already own freighters. We can already cart bajillions of m3 around the universe. We just can't haul amounts between small and bajillions. That's the problem, genius.
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Disco Flint
Caldari Disco Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.17 07:26:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Disco Flint on 17/11/2007 07:27:48
Originally by: Vakillion Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
yo, f*cktard, who will haul me my stuff through lowsec and 0.0? My valuable stuff, stuff that's probably not only valuable but also hard to replace OUT OF HIGHSEC, stuff I wouldn't entrust anybody with even for a collateral, just because it's a load of work to get it all together again in lowsec or 0.0.
Sure, if someone were to rip the contract and take my stuff I'd be none the poorer, but I'd have to get through all the friggin trouble of getting the **** together again. It's hard enough as it is to find a trustworthy hauler willing to haul your minerals through unsecure space, much less someone willing to do it for an affordable price while paying the bajillions you have to demand as collateral.
Logistics out of highsec can pull quite a strain on a small corp or an individual, and I mean especially the current middle ground between industrials and freighters, where one had to either do the route 10 times or skill up and pay up for a freighter.
Hauling as a profession? Sure, give me some kind of log that shows how many contracts were successfully concluded and how many weren't. Give me a possibility of evaluating the freight service other than some Alt telling me 'yo, this guy's cool'. As of now I just can't be sure. Might be a trustworthy person willing to help me out or it might be the next best scammer, hoping for too low calculated collaterals. And you know the rule in EVE: don't trust anybody with anything unless you can kick their balls in RL.
So next time you're about to hit that reply button with nothing but bull to say, please, go make yourself a sandwich or something and spare us your enlightenment.
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Disco Flint
Caldari Disco Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.17 07:32:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Vakillion Stupid people, do you ever think of game balance? Everyone here is whining about how it's hard to cart hundreds of thousands of m3 around the universe. Currently, unless they sacrifice some isk and training for a large slow ship that can accomplish the job there isn't a way. So instead, you can PAY SOMEONE ELSE to haul it in their freighter for you. It allows hauling to be a profession in game, and keeps it from being too easy to move items around. It shouldn't be a walk in the park to cart around a few battleships, you guys want this change because it would save you some time and isk, not because it would be better for the game...
Oh, and please think of your own reply here when you got 100-200k to move, 13 jumps through unsafe space, with no carrier able to jump-haul for you. Then tell me again that logistics here are easy peasy, that moving items around is simply a stupid matter of time and easily done. That it's anywhere near a walk in the park.
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Ottman
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Posted - 2007.11.17 08:41:00 -
[42]
well i dont talk about a smaller freighter that has to take the risk using gates in low sec. i talk about a ship around 200 k cargo space that can use a sort of jump drive, has a minimum jump range of 5 lj, is an own ship class and t1 to make it affordable. should be sorted in between iteron 5 and freighter when we talk about ship size. it should be made for ppl to give them a payable option to sustain their 0.0 business, whatever kind of goods shall be transported.
the current t2 freighter called jump freighter is a nice prototype design but far away from affordable what simply disqualify it for most ppl. remember we just talk about simply flying cargo space, no unneeded luxurary, simple, effective and affordable should it be. nothing against ccp's dreams about t2 capital ships, but please not at this point, thats better brought in later into eve, now we need affordable solutions, no dreams ccp, sorry to say that.
MfG ottman
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Adunh Slavy
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.17 08:43:00 -
[43]
/Signed
Sign this one too, http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=234417
Very old -AS
The Real Space Initiative (Forum Link) |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.11.19 06:40:00 -
[44]
Bump for visibility. Rowboat >>> cargo ship is disjointed progression, so's T2 indy >>> freighter.
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xAnimAx
Gallente Madhatters Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.19 07:19:00 -
[45]
/signed
A mini freigther is very needed, I think players already expressed theire opinion about this, and if there was a official poll about this subject, I bet more then half the EVE players would agree. Its time for CCP to either present a strong reason why not to add them, or just add them. If players feedback has always been important to EVE why ignore this major issue? We need some answers from CCP.
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Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2007.11.19 17:10:00 -
[46]
Hey hey, this is heading down the pages far too fast.
Its not disappearing before it gets noticed
Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.11.23 04:36:00 -
[47]
I was flying my BUFF (big ugly fat... freighter) around to pick up stuff that's 10x too large for my Impel and 5x too small for my freighter, and I thought of this thread.
Back to the top.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.12.07 05:40:00 -
[48]
Another day, another load that's 2 1/2 times larger than a decked out Impel, but waaay too small to justify pulling out the freighter. Thusly, another bump.
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Skavenger
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Posted - 2007.12.07 06:00:00 -
[49]
yea we need a middleman, but instead of making a whole new ship what would be wrong with modifying the t2 ships to holding a lot more?
yea its a little unrealistic that ship sizes dont change but they hold more, or better yet make the ships bigger and call em t2 who cares. look at the iteron line up, all t1 all change in size they just get a number on them, so do that with t2, but all races not just one.
or we have two t2 transports right, why do both have crap cargo? sure one should be a runner but the other should actually be a transport of goods, like a train or big ass cargo ship (maybe thats more like a freighter)
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RoadKill101
Gallente Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2007.12.07 07:59:00 -
[50]
to be honest, if u wanna transport a BS.. jump in it with x3-4 WCS's and fit for speed. it sounds like more of a waste of time to rebuild another freighter ---------------------------------- llama's rule! |
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Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.12.07 08:24:00 -
[51]
/SIGNED
Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap [BEES] |
coeathal vega
Gallente Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.07 11:47:00 -
[52]
transport a bs? a carrier can fit 2 in the ship mainetance bay now, can jump far and costs 1 bil. middleman enough?
----
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Dinslan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.12.07 12:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: coeathal vega transport a bs? a carrier can fit 2 in the ship mainetance bay now, can jump far and costs 1 bil. middleman enough?
For transporting Battleships, yes.
For transporting generic goods, minerals etc. No.
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Cadman Weyland
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.07 12:53:00 -
[54]
Mini freighter... yes please.
Been asking for one of these ever since the originals came into the game.
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Sten Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.07 13:34:00 -
[55]
Seems totally fair enough. I wholeheartly agree there should be a stepping stone for this wide divide in size.
/signed.
(If we are signing this, wouldn't this thread be better off in the ideas/suggestions forum?)
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HarryManback
Minmatar Conniving Opportunist
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:29:00 -
[56]
If only there were a ship that was better than a hauler but worse then a freighter. I would call it a transport ship. Amarr Recon/Electronics Attack Ship/almost Black Ops pilot for auction |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:36:00 -
[57]
The need for *something* between puny industrials and mammoth freighters is even more apparent with the hamhanded and illogically applied module size increases CCP has dished out.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.12.07 18:39:00 -
[58]
Edited by: 000Hunter000 on 07/12/2007 18:43:06 This has been asked for and generally ignored by ccp for a long LOOONGG time allready.
I have yet to see a realy game upsetting drawback from such a ship, and apparently most of the players seem to agree it would be lovely, so i can't understand why ccp tries to ignore this request tbh.
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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J Corwin
Gallente Middleton and Mercer LLP The Omni Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.07 20:11:00 -
[59]
seems like a great idea. I'd love a smoother progression, it's pretty hard to make the money for a freighter from operating a hauler, which isn't true for any other ship type.
/signed.
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Maxpie
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2007.12.07 21:00:00 -
[60]
/signed. Btw, I can both afford and fly a freighter but I don't have one because trying to get anywhere is akin to waiting in the dentist's office with 14 people ahead of you. An in-between mini type freighter is something I would get.
He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things. |
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Clansworth
Point-Zero SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 22:58:00 -
[61]
I think the missing ability here is the moving of battleships. So, to not affect game balance, instead of giving the new ship a ship hanger, instead of a big cargo bay, might be a better way to go... this would also give an easier way to move rigged ships around.
Prospector Class |
Lief Siddhe
University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.12.07 23:34:00 -
[62]
It's not just about moving packaged ships around, but there is foten a need for something bigger than an Iteron 5 but smaller, cheaper and faster than a 900 million ISK freighter. Not counting the skillbook cost.
A smaller freighter would be a great thing for all of us space truckers. --- Beneath all of our differences there's a single bond between every living Gallentean that makes us hard as diamond: a love of freedom. |
Isan Danderoda
Strix Armaments and Defence Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:51:00 -
[63]
/signed
Traders and industrialists need more love from CCP. The only love they've gotten for quite some time has come in the form of stuff that is really only suited for big operations. How about the little guy? I've seen a lot of people stuck between an IttyV and a freighter for ages because there is simply nothing for them to pilot in between.
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Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr Heretic Army The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.08 02:40:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Bentula Give us a ship with 1/8 of a freighters cargo, for 1/4 of the price, which has a couple of slots based on racial preferences. Lowslots really are not that much of a problem, just make sure that these ships can never exceed 1/4 of a carriers cargospace, in order to keep them from becoming more costeffective.
This is the only part I kind of disagree with. They should be more cost effective. One is (correction: would be) a supply vessel while the other is a combat support vessel. --- Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it.
Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!! |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.12.08 04:52:00 -
[65]
Originally by: HarryManback If only there were a ship that was better than a hauler but worse then a freighter. I would call it a transport ship.
Hardyharharhar. Now what single purpose hauler is currently in game that is between the approx 40k m3 of a transport ship, and the approx 800k m3 of a freighter? Take your time answering this one.
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Grendel Marqun
Caldari Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.12.08 06:19:00 -
[66]
My time as an industrialist was pretty short, perhaps a month. During that time, I made a fairly substantial amount of money off of my Scourge BPs and some copy labs. This was a year ago, when the Drake was new and Scourges sold like hotcakes, and copy labs could still be had easy and cheap.
Ever tried to run 10 million trit 4 jumps with a Bestower? EVERY DAY?
(I kept cleaning out the close trit. Moving production just meant I cleaned someplace else out, and had to go 3-4 jumps again.)
Something around 100k, with, let's say, 2 AU/s warp speed and, oh, half the maneuverability of the "slow" indies would have been ideal.
As it is, I now own an Impel that's worth about the same as a battleship, due to 3 rigs. I have no need for a freighter as a primarily PvP player, so training indy 5 is WAY out on the plan.
The utter futility of trying to move useful volumes of low-end minerals killed industry for me. Had there been a midway option, my skillset might look somewhat different.
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Praxis1452
The Bastards
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Posted - 2007.12.08 06:49:00 -
[67]
The main thing is most freighters are empty or barely full most of the time so... if you add in a midway ship which everyone wants that aligns/warps faster and is harder to target... why would anyone use the freighter? Only in rare situations.
The only way this works is if the mini freighters with 125000m3 still has no slots and warps just as slow with just as big a sig radius. Only thing is less cost. That's it. ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it.ö
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Lord Timelord
Artifex Dynamics New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:44:00 -
[68]
Battleship Sized Hauler Variant (Tech I):
Base Capacity of 50,000-75,000m3 (Could set it up with Expanders/Rigs to a decent level!)
Bonus to Cloaked Velocity Per Level. Bonus to Agility Per Level. Bonus to Cargo Capacity Per Level.
3 Highs 3 Mids 8 Lows
3 Rig Slots
It could be setup with a nice background story where outpost construction platforms (a.k.a. "Eggs") can't be transported inside them because of the ships 'rough ride' breaking them. __________
My Corporation's Website
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Hawk Fireblade
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Posted - 2007.12.08 10:41:00 -
[69]
A Jump transport would be nice.
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Keebrone Kammazela
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Posted - 2007.12.08 11:35:00 -
[70]
Deep space transports are a joke for what their stated purpose is they simply do not have the cargo space needed to make them better than other T1 industrials as well as being killer slow. But if they had double their current cargo space putting them at around 75k to 90km3 then that would be better.
AND
The mini frieghter with cargo space of 200km3 is needed and the appalling favor shown to 0.0 players in this game as far as new ships and weapons is simply infuriating.
/Signed
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.12.08 12:05:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Keebrone Kammazela Deep space transports are a joke for what their stated purpose is they simply do not have the cargo space needed to make them better than other T1 industrials as well as being killer slow. But if they had double their current cargo space putting them at around 75k to 90km3 then that would be better.
AND
The mini frieghter with cargo space of 200km3 is needed and the appalling favor shown to 0.0 players in this game as far as new ships and weapons is simply infuriating.
/Signed
It's not specifically 0.0 players; it's megalliances. They get the ~6 bil jump freighter, which simply isn't feasible for smaller corporations. Tying up that much liability in one ship is begging to have it blown to bits, especially if you're too small to defend it from a megalliance blob.
EVE: bring 100-1000 friends, or don't bother.
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Grendel Marqun
Caldari Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.12.09 05:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Praxis1452 The main thing is most freighters are empty or barely full most of the time so... if you add in a midway ship which everyone wants that aligns/warps faster and is harder to target... why would anyone use the freighter? Only in rare situations.
The only way this works is if the mini freighters with 125000m3 still has no slots and warps just as slow with just as big a sig radius. Only thing is less cost. That's it.
Huh??
My corp has 3 freighters in it. We've done ops where we've had 2 FULL freighters heading to the same destination. (FC jitters: be the FC on that op, responsible for about 5 billion isk in assets, heading from hisec to 0.0.) We've done a LOT of runs with just 1, and it's full or damn close.
You might be correct for personal use, but if you're part of a corp/alliance, the utility of a full-sized freighter is obvious.
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Praxis1452
The Bastards
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Posted - 2007.12.09 05:43:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Grendel Marqun
Originally by: Praxis1452 The main thing is most freighters are empty or barely full most of the time so... if you add in a midway ship which everyone wants that aligns/warps faster and is harder to target... why would anyone use the freighter? Only in rare situations.
The only way this works is if the mini freighters with 125000m3 still has no slots and warps just as slow with just as big a sig radius. Only thing is less cost. That's it.
Huh??
My corp has 3 freighters in it. We've done ops where we've had 2 FULL freighters heading to the same destination. (FC jitters: be the FC on that op, responsible for about 5 billion isk in assets, heading from hisec to 0.0.) We've done a LOT of runs with just 1, and it's full or damn close.
You might be correct for personal use, but if you're part of a corp/alliance, the utility of a full-sized freighter is obvious.
Most freighters are not near full most of the time. Just because at one point you actually fill it up does not mean that for most people it's full. The simple fact is if you want to haul a decent amount you'll need a freighter because an iteron V maxes out at like 27000 m3 or something like that. The freighter is a huge jump but it's necessary if your actually doing anything decently large. I'm saying for most people in empire not alliances. ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it.ö
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Grendel Marqun
Caldari Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.12.09 06:21:00 -
[74]
Please read my last post again. For corp use, freighters tend to run near full. Sometimes you have so much crap to move you need 2, and they're BOTH near full.
Don't confuse the needs of the solo volume trader with those of a corp or alliance.
Try 0.0 logistics someday. Have a look at the sheer volume of fuel needed to keep a dozen or more towers running, and the volume of production from a mining/reaction setup producing construction components. Hint: the production of a SINGLE nanotransistor setup is 3000 m^3 per HOUR. And you have to move most of it from 0.0 to empire for sale. Don't forget the need to arrange an escort for it to get across lowsec. This isn't a job you can do 3 times a week per array.
While we're at it, go look at the volume of minerals needed to produce capital ships. A freighter needs about 1 million m^3 of trit alone, and they're the smallest of the cap-class vessels.
There is a very real need for the ability to move massive volumes of cargo. Just because YOU haven't had to do it doesn't mean it's not there.
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Praxis1452
The Bastards
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Posted - 2007.12.09 06:55:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Praxis1452 on 09/12/2007 06:59:05
Originally by: Grendel Marqun Edited by: Grendel Marqun on 09/12/2007 06:27:48 Please read my last post again. For corp use, freighters tend to run near full. Sometimes you have so much crap to move you need 2, and they're BOTH near full.
Don't confuse the needs of the solo volume trader with those of a corp or alliance.
Try 0.0 logistics someday. Have a look at the sheer volume of fuel needed to keep a dozen or more towers running, and the volume of production from a mining/reaction setup producing construction components. Hint: the production of a SINGLE nanotransistor setup is 3000 m^3 per HOUR. And you have to move most of it from 0.0 to empire for sale. Don't forget the need to arrange an escort for it to get across lowsec. This isn't a job you can do 3 times a week per array.
While we're at it, go look at the volume of minerals needed to produce capital ships. A freighter needs about 1 million m^3 of trit alone, and they're the smallest of the cap-class vessels.
There is a very real need for the ability to move massive volumes of cargo. Just because YOU haven't had to do it doesn't mean it's not there.
On the other hand, if you're a soloist or small corp, a moddable sub-freighter would be perfect. Something you can tailor to suit your needs, the same way that you can tailor industrials. Ever tried to move a lot of stuff while some griefer corp has your industrial corp under wardec? WCS time! Oh, you can't DO that unless you're using a swarm of industrials that'll die if a BS looks at them funny.
Your arguement that the only way it works is "smaller, but identical" is, to be blunt, crap. There's a need for ships in 3 classes. Small (indy, transport) medium (no such beast) and large (freighter).
A mini freighter able to use slots -means able to fit WCS& DCU(which also means that it's structure must be much less than 1/2 that of a normal freighter)- able to warp much faster than a freighter- is cheaper - and which allows optimal usage of most smaller corporations is just perfect . 0.0 is not everything.
I bet you do know the ins and outs of 0.0 better than I do. So? Freighters in empire is what I have been mentioning and low-sec as well. The mini-freighter's would be too perfect just as if a BS had 8 high slots 8 med's and 8 lows but with no cargo bay and large pg/cpu. The only tradeoff on the mini -freighter is space so for anybody moving anything less than the amount a mini-freighter would hold it's perfect. In fact it might often be much more useful than an actual freighter because of it's ability to get through camps and dangerous situations. If it had low-slots it might as well use them for cargo-expanders for time to time meaning that it might possibly depending on base size and rig slots come close to a freighter if fit well. If the mini-freighter's size is actually much smaller than a freighter why wouldn't people use it over hauler's in general? The agileness and space would mean that it's more versatile so at a moment's notice it can grab a decent quantity of material.
Of course we're arguing over something that hasn't been designed or specced yet so it's still in the air but I see it as too perfect. I just don't like the idea of something that can hold a huge amount of cargo comparatively(Hauler -> Freighter) with barely any disadvantages.
The simple fact is the difference between a hauler and freighter is huge both in disadvantages. I don't see how you can give the hauler trait(slots) and freighter(space) without it being unbalanced. ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it.ö
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Phoenix T'ril
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.09 08:03:00 -
[76]
Needed since forever. Dunno why we don't already have such a beast.
Something between an Itty V (handy size) and a freighter, you need a bulk carrier with a midrange load. That's actually what I thought the jump freighters would be, a whole new class of ship with a carrying load on par with a carrier, but with the configuration of freighter. -- I do not speak for my corp, or my alliance. |
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