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Clansworth
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.07 22:58:00 -
[61]
I think the missing ability here is the moving of battleships. So, to not affect game balance, instead of giving the new ship a ship hanger, instead of a big cargo bay, might be a better way to go... this would also give an easier way to move rigged ships around.
Prospector Class |
Lief Siddhe
University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.12.07 23:34:00 -
[62]
It's not just about moving packaged ships around, but there is foten a need for something bigger than an Iteron 5 but smaller, cheaper and faster than a 900 million ISK freighter. Not counting the skillbook cost.
A smaller freighter would be a great thing for all of us space truckers.
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Beneath all of our differences there's a single bond between every living Gallentean that makes us hard as diamond: a love of freedom. |
Isan Danderoda
Strix Armaments and Defence
Acheron Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.08 01:51:00 -
[63]
/signed
Traders and industrialists need more love from CCP. The only love they've gotten for quite some time has come in the form of stuff that is really only suited for big operations. How about the little guy? I've seen a lot of people stuck between an IttyV and a freighter for ages because there is simply nothing for them to pilot in between.
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Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr
Heretic Army
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.08 02:40:00 -
[64]
 Originally by: Bentula
Give us a ship with 1/8 of a freighters cargo, for 1/4 of the price, which has a couple of slots based on racial preferences. Lowslots really are not that much of a problem, just make sure that these ships can never exceed 1/4 of a carriers cargospace, in order to keep them from becoming more costeffective.
This is the only part I kind of disagree with. They should be more cost effective. One is (correction: would be ) a supply vessel while the other is a combat support vessel.
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Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it.
Hey hey let's go kenka suru!
Taisetsuna mono protect my balls!
Boku ga warui so lets fighting!
LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!! |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.12.08 04:52:00 -
[65]
Originally by: HarryManback
If only there were a ship that was better than a hauler but worse then a freighter. I would call it a transport ship.
Hardyharharhar. Now what single purpose hauler is currently in game that is between the approx 40k m3 of a transport ship, and the approx 800k m3 of a freighter? Take your time answering this one.
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Grendel Marqun
Caldari
Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.12.08 06:19:00 -
[66]
My time as an industrialist was pretty short, perhaps a month. During that time, I made a fairly substantial amount of money off of my Scourge BPs and some copy labs. This was a year ago, when the Drake was new and Scourges sold like hotcakes, and copy labs could still be had easy and cheap.
Ever tried to run 10 million trit 4 jumps with a Bestower? EVERY DAY?
(I kept cleaning out the close trit. Moving production just meant I cleaned someplace else out, and had to go 3-4 jumps again.)
Something around 100k, with, let's say, 2 AU/s warp speed and, oh, half the maneuverability of the "slow" indies would have been ideal.
As it is, I now own an Impel that's worth about the same as a battleship, due to 3 rigs. I have no need for a freighter as a primarily PvP player, so training indy 5 is WAY out on the plan.
The utter futility of trying to move useful volumes of low-end minerals killed industry for me. Had there been a midway option, my skillset might look somewhat different.
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Praxis1452
The Bastards
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Posted - 2007.12.08 06:49:00 -
[67]
The main thing is most freighters are empty or barely full most of the time so... if you add in a midway ship which everyone wants that aligns/warps faster and is harder to target... why would anyone use the freighter? Only in rare situations.
The only way this works is if the mini freighters with 125000m3 still has no slots and warps just as slow with just as big a sig radius. Only thing is less cost. That's it.
ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it.ö
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Lord Timelord
Artifex Dynamics
New Eden Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.08 08:44:00 -
[68]
Battleship Sized Hauler Variant (Tech I):
Base Capacity of 50,000-75,000m3
(Could set it up with Expanders/Rigs to a decent level!)
Bonus to Cloaked Velocity Per Level.
Bonus to Agility Per Level.
Bonus to Cargo Capacity Per Level.
3 Highs
3 Mids
8 Lows
3 Rig Slots
It could be setup with a nice background story where outpost construction platforms (a.k.a. "Eggs") can't be transported inside them because of the ships 'rough ride' breaking them. 
__________
My Corporation's Website
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Hawk Fireblade
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Posted - 2007.12.08 10:41:00 -
[69]
A Jump transport would be nice.
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Keebrone Kammazela
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Posted - 2007.12.08 11:35:00 -
[70]
Deep space transports are a joke for what their stated purpose is they simply do not have the cargo space needed to make them better than other T1 industrials as well as being killer slow.
But if they had double their current cargo space putting them at around 75k to 90km3 then that would be better.
AND
The mini frieghter with cargo space of 200km3 is needed and the appalling favor shown to 0.0 players in this game as far as new ships and weapons is simply infuriating.
/Signed
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.12.08 12:05:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Keebrone Kammazela
Deep space transports are a joke for what their stated purpose is they simply do not have the cargo space needed to make them better than other T1 industrials as well as being killer slow.
But if they had double their current cargo space putting them at around 75k to 90km3 then that would be better.
AND
The mini frieghter with cargo space of 200km3 is needed and the appalling favor shown to 0.0 players in this game as far as new ships and weapons is simply infuriating.
/Signed
It's not specifically 0.0 players; it's megalliances. They get the ~6 bil jump freighter, which simply isn't feasible for smaller corporations. Tying up that much liability in one ship is begging to have it blown to bits, especially if you're too small to defend it from a megalliance blob.
EVE: bring 100-1000 friends, or don't bother.
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Grendel Marqun
Caldari
Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.12.09 05:35:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Praxis1452
The main thing is most freighters are empty or barely full most of the time so... if you add in a midway ship which everyone wants that aligns/warps faster and is harder to target... why would anyone use the freighter? Only in rare situations.
The only way this works is if the mini freighters with 125000m3 still has no slots and warps just as slow with just as big a sig radius. Only thing is less cost. That's it.
Huh??
My corp has 3 freighters in it. We've done ops where we've had 2 FULL freighters heading to the same destination. (FC jitters: be the FC on that op, responsible for about 5 billion isk in assets, heading from hisec to 0.0.) We've done a LOT of runs with just 1, and it's full or damn close.
You might be correct for personal use, but if you're part of a corp/alliance, the utility of a full-sized freighter is obvious.
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Praxis1452
The Bastards
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Posted - 2007.12.09 05:43:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Grendel Marqun
Originally by: Praxis1452
The main thing is most freighters are empty or barely full most of the time so... if you add in a midway ship which everyone wants that aligns/warps faster and is harder to target... why would anyone use the freighter? Only in rare situations.
The only way this works is if the mini freighters with 125000m3 still has no slots and warps just as slow with just as big a sig radius. Only thing is less cost. That's it.
Huh??
My corp has 3 freighters in it. We've done ops where we've had 2 FULL freighters heading to the same destination. (FC jitters: be the FC on that op, responsible for about 5 billion isk in assets, heading from hisec to 0.0.) We've done a LOT of runs with just 1, and it's full or damn close.
You might be correct for personal use, but if you're part of a corp/alliance, the utility of a full-sized freighter is obvious.
Most freighters are not near full most of the time. Just because at one point you actually fill it up does not mean that for most people it's full. The simple fact is if you want to haul a decent amount you'll need a freighter because an iteron V maxes out at like 27000 m3 or something like that. The freighter is a huge jump but it's necessary if your actually doing anything decently large. I'm saying for most people in empire not alliances.
ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it.ö
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Grendel Marqun
Caldari
Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.12.09 06:21:00 -
[74]
Please read my last post again. For corp use, freighters tend to run near full. Sometimes you have so much crap to move you need 2, and they're BOTH near full.
Don't confuse the needs of the solo volume trader with those of a corp or alliance.
Try 0.0 logistics someday. Have a look at the sheer volume of fuel needed to keep a dozen or more towers running, and the volume of production from a mining/reaction setup producing construction components. Hint: the production of a SINGLE nanotransistor setup is 3000 m^3 per HOUR. And you have to move most of it from 0.0 to empire for sale. Don't forget the need to arrange an escort for it to get across lowsec. This isn't a job you can do 3 times a week per array.
While we're at it, go look at the volume of minerals needed to produce capital ships. A freighter needs about 1 million m^3 of trit alone, and they're the smallest of the cap-class vessels.
There is a very real need for the ability to move massive volumes of cargo. Just because YOU haven't had to do it doesn't mean it's not there.
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Praxis1452
The Bastards
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Posted - 2007.12.09 06:55:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Praxis1452 on 09/12/2007 06:59:05
Originally by: Grendel Marqun
Edited by: Grendel Marqun on 09/12/2007 06:27:48
Please read my last post again. For corp use, freighters tend to run near full. Sometimes you have so much crap to move you need 2, and they're BOTH near full.
Don't confuse the needs of the solo volume trader with those of a corp or alliance.
Try 0.0 logistics someday. Have a look at the sheer volume of fuel needed to keep a dozen or more towers running, and the volume of production from a mining/reaction setup producing construction components. Hint: the production of a SINGLE nanotransistor setup is 3000 m^3 per HOUR. And you have to move most of it from 0.0 to empire for sale. Don't forget the need to arrange an escort for it to get across lowsec. This isn't a job you can do 3 times a week per array.
While we're at it, go look at the volume of minerals needed to produce capital ships. A freighter needs about 1 million m^3 of trit alone, and they're the smallest of the cap-class vessels.
There is a very real need for the ability to move massive volumes of cargo. Just because YOU haven't had to do it doesn't mean it's not there.
On the other hand, if you're a soloist or small corp, a moddable sub-freighter would be perfect. Something you can tailor to suit your needs, the same way that you can tailor industrials. Ever tried to move a lot of stuff while some griefer corp has your industrial corp under wardec? WCS time! Oh, you can't DO that unless you're using a swarm of industrials that'll die if a BS looks at them funny.
Your arguement that the only way it works is "smaller, but identical" is, to be blunt, crap. There's a need for ships in 3 classes. Small (indy, transport) medium (no such beast) and large (freighter).
A mini freighter able to use slots -means able to fit WCS& DCU(which also means that it's structure must be much less than 1/2 that of a normal freighter)- able to warp much faster than a freighter- is cheaper - and which allows optimal usage of most smaller corporations is just perfect  . 0.0 is not everything.
I bet you do know the ins and outs of 0.0 better than I do. So? Freighters in empire is what I have been mentioning and low-sec as well. The mini-freighter's would be too perfect just as if a BS had 8 high slots 8 med's and 8 lows but with no cargo bay and large pg/cpu. The only tradeoff on the mini -freighter is space so for anybody moving anything less than the amount a mini-freighter would hold it's perfect. In fact it might often be much more useful than an actual freighter because of it's ability to get through camps and dangerous situations. If it had low-slots it might as well use them for cargo-expanders for time to time meaning that it might possibly depending on base size and rig slots come close to a freighter if fit well. If the mini-freighter's size is actually much smaller than a freighter why wouldn't people use it over hauler's in general? The agileness and space would mean that it's more versatile so at a moment's notice it can grab a decent quantity of material.
Of course we're arguing over something that hasn't been designed or specced yet so it's still in the air but I see it as too perfect. I just don't like the idea of something that can hold a huge amount of cargo comparatively(Hauler -> Freighter) with barely any disadvantages.
The simple fact is the difference between a hauler and freighter is huge both in disadvantages. I don't see how you can give the hauler trait(slots) and freighter(space) without it being unbalanced.
ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it.ö
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Phoenix T'ril
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.12.09 08:03:00 -
[76]
Needed since forever. Dunno why we don't already have such a beast.
Something between an Itty V (handy size) and a freighter, you need a bulk carrier with a midrange load. That's actually what I thought the jump freighters would be, a whole new class of ship with a carrying load on par with a carrier, but with the configuration of freighter.
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I do not speak for my corp, or my alliance. |
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