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How good would 0.0 space have to be for you to want to move there?

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Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.18 12:31:00 - [1] Obviously, this is not aimed at the small minority of players who already are in 0.0. I'd like to ask those players why they prefer it to high sec space. I suspect most people with characters in 0.0 space have at least one empire alt, but if you spend the majority of your time in 0.0, I'd like to know why. It's possible to make a killing in Empire space at the moment with almost no risk, and without spending a great deal of time logged in, mainly because so many players are clustered together there and the opportunities for trade are much greater. As things stand, what incentives are there for people to move out? I see very few, except for reduced background lag - and I'm more interested in content than game mechanics. I've been playing for 18 months or so now, and I've often thought about making the move, but every time I do I find there are fewer reasons to do so, and I've been putting down stronger and stronger roots in high sec. Right now, I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that most of 0.0 serves solely as a massive isk sink. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Jaikar Isillia principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.18 12:46:00 - [2] I live solely in 0.0 as a combat pilot who rats to make ends meet without a empire alt to do carebear activities. I realize that living in empire things could be much more lucrative . But I do not play this game to watch my wallet blink and trade ***** the market undercutting some other sod for 0.1 isk. I play for the alliance warfare and the politics and drama that comes with it. Where the monotony of guaranteed low risk riches attracts most the dynamic constant adversity of 0.0 attracts me. That said, it is a quite bewildering that one can make more money in risk free environments than dangerous ones.
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.18 12:47:00 - [3] Well I moved to 0.0 when I was 6 months old and I am about the same age as you (eve wise). My main reasons were. 1. I was sick of running the same missions over and over again. 2. I once tried ratting in a 0.4 system (in a caracal) got attacked by a t1 frig and a rupture, managed to chase off the tackling frig and warp off to saftey this was my first pvp experience and gave me the biggest adrenaline boost I have ever had in a game. 3. Due to reason 1 I moved to a NPC 0.0 region and started ratting there, which I prefer to missions beacause you never know what will be in the next belt. 4. Faction, officer and hauler spawns, while they are not common they are very profitable. 5. The fact that concord no longer protect my butt, I rely on my self and my alliance mates for this, promotes team spirit and forges bonds between players that no high sec enviroment can ever do. 6. Oh yeah and I get to blow up ships
Bond age	Posted - 2007.11.18 12:55:00 - [4] Moved to 0.0 coouse off freinds got me to dump wow and start eve, they where all part off some "big" alliance so got in to the pvp area from day one, must say i wouldnt have started the game anywhere else the highsec is just so ZZzzzZ
AlexCA Amarr De Valken BV Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.18 13:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro but if you spend the majority of your time in 0.0, I'd like to know why. Only have a hauling and cyno alt in empire on this account, no moneymaking alts. I live in providence which is about the crappiest 0.0 region to make isk. But its just much more fun trying to be a somewhat self reliant group. Building your own ships and homes, and the risk of being ganked and the fun of chasing after invaders adds excitement that you dont find in overcrowded boring empire. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Forum Moderator ([email protected])
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.18 13:25:00 - [6] I current live in Empire, but I used to live in 0.0. Reasons for living in 0.0: - Hadn't done it before - To make money - Looking for PvP - 0.0 is what it's all about anyway Compared to 0.0, Empire is just a disjointed collection of mini-games. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.11.18 13:40:00 - [7] I can make far more money in highsec than 0.0 and that IMO is not really balanced. Because you spend a certain amount of time and money fighting, once you factor that in the isk/hour is FAR below what you can make in highsec. But yeah 0.0 is more fun and less laggy. You get to shoot people. Thats pretty much my reason.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:12:00 - [8] Edited by: Andrue on 18/11/2007 14:14:26 I will move to 0.0 as soon as it allows me to play the game how I want whenever I want. I don't want to spend all my time looking over my shoulder worrying about the consequences of my decisions or 'working toward a goal'. I get enough of that in real-life and when I get home from the office I want to relax. Unfortunately the OP is yet another player unable to understand why so many people live in Empire. It has nothing to do with being or getting rich. It's because in Empire we have the freedom to do what we want, where we want at our own pace. The majority of people in Empire simply don't like the lifestyle that 0.0 forces on players. This isn't a rant against 0.0 - quite a few people like it and it serves a purpose. I spent over six months there myself once. What the OP is failing to realise is that people like me simply don't want to be in 0.0. You might as well ask me what it would take to make me move to Antarctica. If you like 0.0 stay there. If you prefer Empire stay there. If you live in 0.0 and want more victims to blow up - post a thread in the forums. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Fanjita	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:22:00 - [9] for a start the risk v reward would have to outweigh the lack of risk for huge rewards that empire gives.
zacuis Great Big Research	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:49:00 - [10] i think the op is hinting at the fact that the rewards of living in 0.0 have been VASTLY reduced of late. (isk wise) i do think it very sad that i can make more isk in empire now than was ever possable in 0.0.
Bryg Philomena Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.11.18 14:54:00 - [11] I loved the comraderee from alliances. The markets can make so much more isk. Rats are better. And you can PVP!!! Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars??? Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Ormen Tuttle Caldari Intergalactic Amalgamated Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.18 15:15:00 - [12] I've had two major adventures into null sec--both ended with the alliances I was with getting their butts kicked and losing their space. In the second case we lost a station we had just built--it was heart breaking to lose it after all the work we did to build it. I'm not sure why people say they can't make it financially in null sec. On both occasions I was able to equal what I did in Empire. In the second case I was in the drone region and was selling drone loot to my alliance at about half price and was still doing what I did in Empire in terms of making cash. Of course, I am retired and can play a lot so maybe that makes the difference. When my alliances didn't need me on the battle front I was able to rat and mine on my own. I would love to find another alliance and go back to null sec. Until then I'm in a small corp running missions, exploring, mining, building things to sell, playing the market, with the occasional high sec. war thrown in. Ormen Tuttle http://www.ahnog.us
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.18 15:19:00 - [13] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 18/11/2007 15:19:12 Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro almost no risk Best reason right there to NOT be in high sec.
Brigitte Helm Minmatar Flying Fox Industries	Posted - 2007.11.18 15:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Crumplecorn <snip> .... Compared to 0.0, Empire is just a disjointed collection of mini-games. This is the reason I exist in High sec. I like the multi player aspect of eve, but dont want to pvp. I dont want to have to fight everytime I come on line, or exist to do the will of some mindless all powerful entity. I can do what I want when I want. I vist 0.0 but would never live there. Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev. Make Eve fun....
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:27:00 - [15] the problem with the risk and the reward is balancing it between safe 0.0 and hostile 0.0 there have been suggestions about it before ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:31:00 - [16] my current high sec status is not in any way related to the desire to move out to 0.0 I'd be out there in a heartbeat if my corp was up to it sadly because we mostly recruit brand new players, and help set them on their path, our turn over is high and very few stick with us Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Gaius Sejanus Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:49:00 - [17] To answer the question posited in the thread title, in order for me to move to 0.0, the following would need to occur: 1) NPC station density at least half as good as empire, in all regions (not just Syndicate and a couple others). 2) Increase the damage of sentry guns tenfold, add them to all gates, all stations. 3) An elimination from the collective conciousness of the playerbase the concepts of: "NPC corp member = spy" and "Being a member of a player corp makes you more accountable". The second of those in particular, which is so monumentally wrong that the english language does not have sufficient words to describe the mental status of the people who actually believe it. 4) An end to blob warfare. If all of those things happened, I -might-...MAYBE, consider moving to 0.0. But probably not.
hilaw	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:52:00 - [18] 0.0 is the game, empire is just the tutorial island. Out here if someone annoys you ya shoot them dead. If they don't like it they bring their friends, and you bring yours and you see who has the biggest and best, and surely thats what a game is about? Was 1 Pixel to big and you had to nerf it, well fixed now
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:57:00 - [19] Originally by: hilaw 0.0 is the game, empire is just the tutorial island. Out here if someone annoys you ya shoot them dead. If they don't like it they bring their friends, and you bring yours and you see who has the biggest and best, and surely thats what a game is about? nope but great of you to think so ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
hilaw	Posted - 2007.11.18 21:12:00 - [20] Edited by: hilaw on 18/11/2007 21:15:29 Ok, I agree there is teamwork too, but at the end of the day I have a violent mentality that calls for me and my friends to be better and blow things up. For some this might not be the case, they enjoy making a perfect toy, but thats why they live in empire, and we leave each other alone as much as possible. To clarify: its the dog eat dog mentality not the profit for those of us who are out in 0.0 Personally I mange without any empire side alts and just one account. Was 1 Pixel to big and you had to nerf it, well fixed now
insidion Caldari Last of the Technocracy	Posted - 2007.11.18 21:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Andrue It's because in Empire we have the freedom to do what we want, where we want at our own pace. The majority of people in Empire simply don't like the lifestyle that 0.0 forces on players. Exactly. Frankly the whole 'risk vs reward' thing is now an archaic concept. If you want to focus on PVP, you go to 0.0. It's supposed to be a warzone so bad that concord has no presence there whatsoever. And you're complaining that you can't carebear in 0.0? Or that you're having trouble making more money in 0.0 than in empire? Maybe you don't belong in 0.0. Another way to think of it is that empire is largely for the solo player, 0.0 is for teamwork. Empire, lowsec and nosec are all necessary evils to satiate the variety of playstyles and moods of the population of eve. Nothing wrong with any of them, despite extravagant and uninformed notions to the contrary.
Clinically Gallente Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.18 21:36:00 - [22] I hate going to empire and no, I don't have an empire alt, it's all so lame and repetitive in high sec space. In 0.0 I can shoot people and get shot at, gets the heart pumping and the adrenaline up. If i wanted to blow up mindless NPCs I'd play Space Invaders. 0.0 doesn't seem to be an ISK sink to me, I have no trouble making ISK very quickly and largely without much effort on my part.
Dez Affinity Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.18 21:45:00 - [23] I live in 0.0 because I'm not allowed in high-sec Also I hate seeing so many neutrals on my screen and not being able to shoot them. _______________
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.18 21:48:00 - [24] Your problem of not wanted to move down is very simple, but you might not like the answer I give you. You are afraid of risk. I will not lie, you can make a butt load of isk in empire, with very little risk. But ****, why even play then? Risk makes this game fun. I live exclusively in 0.0, and the only thing I own in empire is a crane that I used to transport mins I've shipped up to empire for sale. I would never be able to live in empire due to the fact that there is nothing there you have to look out for, and you can just do everything without a care in the world. Boring. I'll take my intel channels and hostile gank squads. Without them, the game is horrible. Just my opinion. --
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.11.18 21:53:00 - [25] It's already rewarding enough for me. Mainly I'm just too lazy so far to live in 0.0 full time. In other words, it's not a question of rewards, but rather convenience. I like losec best because it gives some of the adrenalin rush of 0.0, but there are a lot more options for solo and casual play. And it's relatively easy from there to access content in both hisec and 0.0 (to an extent) any time I like. The main things that would get me into 0.0 more of the time are more NPC stations and somewhat easier access to markets. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
6Bagheera9 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.11.18 22:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Clinically I hate going to empire and no, I don't have an empire alt, it's all so lame and repetitive in high sec space. In 0.0 I can shoot people and get shot at, gets the heart pumping and the adrenaline up. If i wanted to blow up mindless NPCs I'd play Space Invaders. 0.0 doesn't seem to be an ISK sink to me, I have no trouble making ISK very quickly and largely without much effort on my part. I think you're typical of most 0.0 residents. I've spent 80% of my time in 0.0 and am only in empire atm because I'm semi-inactive. Living in 0.0 is generally not about the isk, though you can make boatloads of it if you want. Its about space and the freedom to do whatever you want in it. Empire is crowded and full of neutrals I can't shoot because of concord. In 0.0 you can have an entire system to yourself or hang out there with a few friends. When I want to shoot someone, I just shoot them. No need to think about concord, gate guns, or my sec status. All of you that are bickering about the isk generating potential of 0.0 vs. empire need seriously reassess your priorities. Isk != fun, its just an indicator of how much **** you can afford to get blown up before you need to rat or grind some missions. Unless you're financing capship/POSs there is really little point in amassing more than 1-2 billion isk. And with a critical mass of SP and some knowledge of the game, its fairly easy to get that kind of money within a week or two. So, ask yourselves, "Did you start playing this game to engage in epic life or death space battles or to grind isk so you can get that CNR to grind isk even faster..."
cal nereus Perkone	Posted - 2007.11.18 22:02:00 - [27] I know the question isn't aimed at me, since I also live in 0.0, but I'm going to answer anyways. For me to want to live in 0.0, I need to be part of a fun-loving 0.0 alliance. As long as there are other people living in 0.0 that I can get along with, talk to, and have fun with, and I can team up with for PvP or system defense: then I'm happy. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Haakelen Gallente United Forces Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.18 22:10:00 - [28] I moved to 0.0 six months ago to PvP. I ended up liking it so much that I moved here fully and ignored empire completely. Could you call an alt sitting in an empire station training a skill an 'empire alt'? I don't really think so. I don't have any chars dedicated to doing anything in empire. The glorious part about Eve is that you can do what you enjoy in any part of this game. You have fun getting ISK, I have fun losing interceptors . I think if anything 0.0 is too safe at the moment. Sure, getting past chokepoints can certainly be dicey, but after that if your goal is avoiding combat and you're not completely stupid, you're never going to die. Despite this, I still think 0.0 is Eve in its most pure state.
Ashina Sito	Posted - 2007.11.18 22:30:00 - [29] 1. Removal of attribute implants. Any time spent in 0.0 is time spent making less skill points do to the use of lower qaulity attribute impants. Give everyone +2.5 to their attributes and remove the impants. (decreased learning times is what in the end chased me out of 0.0.) 2. Decrease the security status of 0.0 systems. Why are their 0.0 systems that have a -0.009 sec status? Yes, they exist, I have been there... did not stay very long of course. Drop sec status of the "low" end systems by .2-.3 to improve the overall quality in 0.0. They still won't be of much use compaired to the good system in 0.0 but, they are at least useable instead of useless as they are now. 3. Fight or Flight needs to return. WCS nurf went way too far. A better way to handle it would be a reverse of the stacking nurf you get with fittings. One WCS has minimal impact on your ships effectivenes, the more you add the worse it gets. 4+ WCS should have your ship with an 80-90% reduction in lock/range. WCS pernerfs your ship set up because you loose out on having a more useful fitting in it's place. This change would allow a player to choose fight or flight yet still be effective in non-PvP activites. Will any of these happen, no. No one would want to lose 1.5-2.5 attribute points. Increasing quality of 0.0 means an increase in the resources they would supply which translates to lower earnings for all. WCS? "Purdy esplosin!!! Purdy esplosin!!!" is a bit more important then having to work for a kill. I went to 0.0 with my pilot with less then 2 million SP, solo. Based myself out of a station in Syndicate and did all my own logistics and manufaturing. Bounced arround Syndicate, finding that -0.009 system. Then moved to Providance. All of this was solo since joining a corp/allinace would mean being a loser, from my perspective. Eve is a sandbox and my game is to succeed alone where others have to group up. Since PvP in Eve is heavly dependant on the "bring more friends then they do" kind of game play it doesn't work so well for me. So for now I sit in empire playing other aspects of the game untill I can gain enough SP and find the right niche for me in PvP or simply log out and never log in again. In the end there are no changes that could happen that would get me to move to 0.0. Eve's PvP is not my cup of tea and that means there is no reason to live in 0.0 (low sec). The occasoinal visit, sure. Live, no. (note: I do not acovate the above changes, nor any others for that matter. People are happy with 0.0, change it and they will leave. Same goes with Empre as well, changes will not push people to 0.0 mearly push them out of the game.) Happy pew pew, rock banging or CHA CHING! Whichever floats your boat, or space chip for that matter.
skipper johnson The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.18 22:34:00 - [30] I compare highsec and all the minigames to WoW. You aren't really connected to any major outcomes in the game. You can come and go as you please. It doesn't matter if you don't log in for a month, your stuff will still be there when you get back. 0.0 on the other hand you're a part of something bigger. 0.0 IS eve. The rest is just fore.play.

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