Originally by: Gard Stardust

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Actually Ohne is right, 0.0 is underpopulated.

There is plenty of open space which is only being used by some isk farmers here and there occasionally.

Maybe part of the reason is, that living out of a POS is too complicated - Refining and Reprocessing and storing ships and modules should eventually be made more easy.

Eventually there are also too few choke points, that lead into 0.0.

The introduction of jump bridges doesnt help with populating systems, too - in my opinion they are a bad idea, as alliance can claim more space with smaller numbers...

All this leads to having only NPC stations / Outpost - systems and choke points having some kind of dense population.

The introducing of the Rorqual might finally bring people into more remote systems.

I think that the mothership could eventually be improved by giving it a role as a mobile base, too. Maybe like the Mothership in the game "homeworld" it should also be given the possibility to produce (maybe only up to battlecruiser size) and research, both with special modules for the mothership. Together with a POS and a Rorqual single corps could easily claim remote systems and base their operations from there.

The carrier and the mothership should be able to jump with docked pilots, so that they can bring troops behind enemy lines (i think a single carrier can jump 7 assembled cruiser sized vessels).

Thats my 2 cents...

but maybe this rather belongs to the game development part of this forum,

Gard Stardust

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Originally by: Niedar

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Allow the destruction of outposts and all will be good ;0

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Originally by: Ohne

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0.0 is empty

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Originally by: Gnulpie

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Edited by: Gnulpie on 22/11/2007 16:34:49
Increase the difficulties of logistics and maintainance and alliances will automatically shrink because they will become too bored with fueling pos and logistics and all. Therefore Eve will feel bigger again.

Nerf carriers as haulers and increase the costs of jumpbrige usage... oh wait!

But anyway, more space is really necesary! Especially because new players have no chance to gather good moons for moon mining. All in the hands of the big alliances.

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Originally by: PMolkenthin

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Im not exactly an old school player, but I do remember > 10k players on TQ.

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Originally by: ardik

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CCP need to fix the -0.01 true sec systems that barely spawn kernite, those systems are just a waste of space.

More space? No thanks, i like to occasionally see other people in MMOs.

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Originally by: PMolkenthin

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Im not exactly an old school player, but I do remember > 10k players on TQ.

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Originally by: Howling Jinn

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theres too much crappy 0.0
deep regions like cache, paragon soul, period basis with tons of ****ty true security.
which means everyone wants that same constellation, and nobody wants the rest of the region.
those regions are just an example.

maybe im naive, but i thought regions which was +30 jumps from empire would have tons of nice true sec.

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Originally by: Raid

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space is small because the game chrinks it for us.

1. Local Chat: Remove local chat and all of a sudden space feels very cold and empty.
2. Map Info: You shouldnt be able to find out whats in a solarsystem without actually visiting it. That includes who has Sov, how many people are there, what structures exist there.
3. Jump Drives: Logistics are too easy with jump drives/bridges. I doubt this will change however...

Space doesnt need to get bigger... we just need to do more of the exploring ourselves.

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Originally by: Cuebick

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Edited by: Cuebick on 22/11/2007 20:27:20
Imagine having two empires.. the only way to cross the bridge would to travel in 0.0 space. oooh the joy

edit: You could only buy/manifacture certain things in each empire.. would make traffic between empires .. fun? ^^

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Originally by: Ajja 17

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It's funny how everybody who wants to nerf alliances is in a failed alliance ;)

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Originally by: Lowa

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More space...yes...a little maybe. But what is more needed is imho changing the way you control space.
I hate POS. I see why they are needed but I still hate them. It forces people into
one system to fight over it and we all know what happens when 500+ people duke it out.

Sometimes I honestly wish we were back when conqurable stations were the only thing.
If you wanted to keep that, you need to back it up. And it was (almost) always possible
to take it back if you lost it.
Not that it did or would solve the gigantic single-system-gangbangs we are used to know
when taking down strategic targets but...
Station ping-pong was boring for sure but honestly, isnt knocking down 40 POS's and having
to errect (yes, I did say it) 40 of your own a helluva lot more boring?

Might be drifting of topic here I admit, but POS's are one of the reasons I think
this EVE War is going to...stop. Who in their right mind would like to keep up something
so mindnumbing as POS's spam, POS warfare, POS managing at the level needed for another year?
And pay real $ for it?

Need more space? No, better utilization of it. And the possibility to destroy OP's. Its getting crowded out there.

Aww...heck. Dont listen to me, I'm old, grumpy and I've waited 20 mins to pass teh Entering Game
for Trinity testserver. I dont make any sense, I can feel it.


Cheers,
Lowa

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Originally by: NATMav

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There's plenty of space, it's just that half of it is worthless. When you can make more ISK grinding Level 4's in complete safety than you can ratting in 0.0, something is wrong.

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Originally by: Ajja 17

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It's funny how everybody who wants to nerf alliances is in a failed alliance ;)

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Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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Go take a drive through FIX space... spamming bloody stations to hide in every 2 jumps down there.

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Originally by: BlackHorizon

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More space and remove warp to zero entirely.

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Originally by: Droewa

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Originally by: umop 3pisdn

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Go take a drive through FIX space... spamming bloody stations to hide in every 2 jumps down there.

---

the reason why stations tend to be so close is to achieve sov 4 ya Muppet.

i think improving the sec value and the quality of ore in 0.0 would help things quite a bit. i have also noticed that the best officer rats tend to spawn more often near NPC stations. IMO this is bad, maybe it would help things out if the best stuff was far far away from empire systems? i dunno. I'm high on turkey.

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Originally by: Jungle KungFu

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Edited by: Jungle KungFu on 22/11/2007 23:58:35
Most of 0.0 is empty and most of those empty systems are garbage. However turning them into .5 or better (true sec) would only enhance the rabid inflation problem.

I would agree that logistically it is very easy to control 0.0 space and tools like the jump freighter will just make it easier.

Also cloaking ravens are the only thing keeping certain countries economy going.

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Originally by: Dangerously Cheesey

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Originally by: Jungle KungFu

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Edited by: Jungle KungFu on 22/11/2007 23:58:35
Most of 0.0 is empty and most of those empty systems are garbage. However turning them into .5 or better (true sec) would only enhance the rabid inflation problem.

I would agree that logistically it is very easy to control 0.0 space and tools like the jump freighter will just make it easier.

Also cloaking ravens are the only thing keeping certain countries economy going.

---

Anyone who thinks that jump freighters, as currently implemented, are going to make 0.0 logistics easier than what they are now knows very little about logistics.

---

Originally by: Taurequis

---

Hi,

Just had a thought after seeing the alt post of "POS wars or NO".

My opinion is that back in the day alot of things were made fun because of the isolation we used to have. We now have 40k people in the space we used to fit 5k.

Even with all the POS stuff and their associated wars would eve feel more like the old days if we added another bunch of regions beyond the existing ones?

More empty space, more distace to travel, less blobs?

Does it take that much more processing power in the server clusters to make more regions available?

What does everyone think?

Bigger sandpit makes better corp and alliance level play? Yes or No?

Your opinions welcome.

Thanks,

Taur

---

Originally by: Malcanis

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I think we need more NPC sov 0.0

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Originally by: Ajja 17

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

I think we need more NPC sov 0.0

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God no I want to own and develop my space, build an empire. Not squat somewhere.

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Originally by: Scavok

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Edited by: Scavok on 23/11/2007 01:09:48
More space wouldn't change anything. It would just end up with the same guys we see now owning it, especially if it was more valuable. Cyno Jammers mean alliances can hold huge amounts of space with very little risk of being hit at multiple locations, which also means it's pretty much impossible for smaller alliances to take space from larger alliances.

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Originally by: Schani Kratnorr

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With more than 70% of players in Empire at any given time, it is clear that the majority want and seek something else from the game.

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Originally by: Cuebick

---

Edited by: Cuebick on 22/11/2007 20:27:20
Imagine having two empires.. the only way to cross the bridge would to travel in 0.0 space. oooh the joy

edit: You could only buy/manifacture certain things in each empire.. would make traffic between empires .. fun? ^^

---

Originally by: Ajja 17

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Edited by: Ajja 17 on 23/11/2007 03:20:13

Originally by: Schani Kratnorr

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With more than 70% of players in Empire at any given time, it is clear that the majority want and seek something else from the game.

---

The majority of 0.0 players have empire alts (for missions/trading). So I wouldn't be surprised if the split is more like 50-50 (of physical players).

edit: also keep in mind a lot of the empire dwellers are noobs, while most of 0.0 is populated by fairly experienced people.

---

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG

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It takes about a month to train one million skill points so it is fair to say that anyone who has more than five million skill points is at least not a ônewbieö anymore.

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Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG

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The average number of skill points for all races is 8.7 million.

---

Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG

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Today there are more than 195,000 accounts, which represents 433,000 characters, or 2.2 characters per account. It is estimated that the population of EVE will have reached 200,000 by mid-Q4 2007 and will be well into 210,000 by Q1 2008. In addition to these accounts, there are another 45,000 trial accounts that could potentially become part of the society in the near future.

---

Originally by: Schani Kratnorr

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STUFFFFFFFFFFF and alot of it.

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Originally by: Niedar

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Allow the destruction of outposts and all will be good ;0

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Originally by: Kvarium Ki

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If you open more space people allready in 0.0 aren't going to move there. 0.0 will not get less crowded, empire will.

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Originally by: sakana

---

I dunno, atm there is a LOT of empty space. 80% of systems in 0.0 are empty. Under 10% of eve players live in 0.0.

I don't think we lack space, just the will to take it.

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Originally by: Raid

---

space is small because the game chrinks it for us.

1. Local Chat: Remove local chat and all of a sudden space feels very cold and empty.
2. Map Info: You shouldnt be able to find out whats in a solarsystem without actually visiting it. That includes who has Sov, how many people are there, what structures exist there.
3. Jump Drives: Logistics are too easy with jump drives/bridges. I doubt this will change however...

Space doesnt need to get bigger... we just need to do more of the exploring ourselves.

---

Originally by: III LightBringer

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Taurequis : This is corp and alliance forum. Not sure why you post this here, but, since we are at it....


New regions, that are linked from , well.. someplace in empire, with a 25+AU distance to 'anything' making it impossible to jump in capitals to the new area.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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I think we need more NPC sov 0.0

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Originally by: Schani Kratnorr

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...Lots of interesting points....

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Originally by: Secondus Dawkins

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A little more deep space would be interesting, especially if it wasn't conquerable. Imagine a few distant 0.0 regions, far away, but without chokepoints so that it would be hard for people to cut off access. Then, disable POSs for whatever reason (give the rats Dread gangs, put up rat POSs, drastically increase fuel use for POSs in remote regions so that it's just not worth it, whatever). This way it will be hard for anyone to actually claim and hold the space. Now the Rorqual, Jump Freighter, jump-bridging BS and MoM really come into their own. A small corp can jump deeply into un-owned space, set up a mobile mining/ratting op and have it really feel like the wild west. Any space you can hold is yours, but just as long as you're there. It would add an entirely new dimension to the game. Eve is all about the freedom to do different things, well this would definitely be different. It also wouldn't be very blob friendly if it was many conventional jumps away. Who wants to sign up for a 2-3 hr op when you don't know if you'll see anyone the whole time.

BTW, this is absolutley the wrong forum for this discussion

---

Originally by: Leroy Payne

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Edited by: Leroy Payne on 23/11/2007 10:41:00


Agree, there are many pilots in this game for whom POS warfare is awful and not like a game at all. Currently these people are confined to a few comparatively-crowded npc sov regions, which can still be controlled tactically if not strategically by the spamming of loads of POS all over the place.

IMHO, POS warfare will be the death of this game if you force it upon everyone who wants to pvp, including those who actually want a little small gang, high skill fast paced fun without the need for months of logistics, fleets of cap ships, and gangs of 200.

I love the idea of space you have to hold By Actually Being there and standing your ground, fighting real fights, instead of hiding in a pos and only showing up in giant blobs when you have 5 days notice as the stront timer ticks down!

Yeah that would be nice....

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Originally by: Verite Rendition

---

I personally believe that 0.0 is full and needs to be expanded. For the reason why, I go with the following:

If you'll stick with me for a moment on biology, there's a concept known as the carrying capacity of an environment, which is how much of a population a given environment can support. 0.0 has effectively reached its carrying capacity, where we define carrying capacity as the amount of ISK-generating activities (the backbone of EVE) available in an area that are superior to what's available in high-sec Empire space. This is for a few reasons:

0) There are 4 real ways to make ISK in 0.0: Moon mining, ratting, exploration, and ore mining. Since all of the good moons are already claimed in 0.0, we're really down to 3 ways.

1) Much of 0.0 has a carrying capacity of 0, that is that there's nothing you can do in these systems that is more profitable than living in high-sec (and this is before costs of operating in 0.0). In these systems ratting is worse than L4 missions, mining is worse than high-sec mining, and the sec status returns exploration sites too poor compared to L4 missions again.

2) That leaves us with the good 0.0 systems. On any given week, the average system can support 1 concurrent ratter and a handful of hardcore miners mining ABC ore. Exploration supports less than 1 user per system since you have to go chase sites and there's not 1 good site per system. Once we've removed the bad 0.0 systems, we're looking at perhaps 1k-1.5k of these systems.

3) Should 0.0 exceed carrying capacity (more than 1 concurrent ratter, too many miners exhausting the ore, etc), it becomes less profitable to live in 0.0 than to live in high-sec.

4) Empire has additional ways to make money; besides trade routes the key among these is missions. There is an infinite supply of missions, each character assigned their own private deadspace to work in. This results in the best case scenario (everyone running missions in high-sec) of every Empire system having an infinite carrying capacity.

5) Because Empire has missions and 0.0 does not, this creates a massive imbalance between the two that allows Empire to carry many people, and 0.0 to carry few.

My point here is that 0.0 is full; aside from issues of new tenants moving in after wars, every system and every region is at carrying capacity for ratting and mining. CCP either needs to add missions to 0.0 (which would reduce much of the strain on other 0.0 ISK-generating activities) or add more 0.0 space. Either way, there needs to be more ISK-generating activities in 0.0 if more people are to be supported.

---

Originally by: Schani Kratnorr

---

To those left wondering, "what does this guy have against goonswarm", I can only say that I think the game would be better off without their personalities and methodology.

The flood of so-called ****posting that will follow my posts will frame my point of view. Their absense will only cement their inability to do anything beyond simply being many and posting crappola all day long.

I have managed to find a way to block posters from Goonswarm, so thankfully I will avoid having to read through it to find the posts that matter - all the others...

---

Originally by: Plutoinum

---

Waiting for better times so to speak that may come or not.

---

Originally by: NATMav

---

I always thought the truesec should be affected by activity in the system. An over-farmed system slowly gains security, becoming less valuable, while unused systems slowly go lower and become more valuable. It would ecourage players to spread out more instead of fighting over a few good systems per region and hanging around the stations all the time. It works pretty well with mining...if you strip mine a system, you have to move on to another sytstem, or wait for the roids to regen.

---

Originally by: Verite Rendition

---

I personally believe that 0.0 is full and needs to be expanded. For the reason why, I go with the following:

If you'll stick with me for a moment on biology, there's a concept known as the carrying capacity of an environment, which is how much of a population a given environment can support. 0.0 has effectively reached its carrying capacity, where we define carrying capacity as the amount of ISK-generating activities (the backbone of EVE) available in an area that are superior to what's available in high-sec Empire space. This is for a few reasons:

0) There are 4 real ways to make ISK in 0.0: Moon mining, ratting, exploration, and ore mining. Since all of the good moons are already claimed in 0.0, we're really down to 3 ways.

1) Much of 0.0 has a carrying capacity of 0, that is that there's nothing you can do in these systems that is more profitable than living in high-sec (and this is before costs of operating in 0.0). In these systems ratting is worse than L4 missions, mining is worse than high-sec mining, and the sec status returns exploration sites too poor compared to L4 missions again.

2) That leaves us with the good 0.0 systems. On any given week, the average system can support 1 concurrent ratter and a handful of hardcore miners mining ABC ore. Exploration supports less than 1 user per system since you have to go chase sites and there's not 1 good site per system. Once we've removed the bad 0.0 systems, we're looking at perhaps 1k-1.5k of these systems.

3) Should 0.0 exceed carrying capacity (more than 1 concurrent ratter, too many miners exhausting the ore, etc), it becomes less profitable to live in 0.0 than to live in high-sec.

4) Empire has additional ways to make money; besides trade routes the key among these is missions. There is an infinite supply of missions, each character assigned their own private deadspace to work in. This results in the best case scenario (everyone running missions in high-sec) of every Empire system having an infinite carrying capacity.

5) Because Empire has missions and 0.0 does not, this creates a massive imbalance between the two that allows Empire to carry many people, and 0.0 to carry few.

My point here is that 0.0 is full; aside from issues of new tenants moving in after wars, every system and every region is at carrying capacity for ratting and mining. CCP either needs to add missions to 0.0 (which would reduce much of the strain on other 0.0 ISK-generating activities) or add more 0.0 space. Either way, there needs to be more ISK-generating activities in 0.0 if more people are to be supported.

---

Quote:

---

*wall of text*

---

Originally by: NATMav

---

Originally by: Howling Jinn

---

theres too much crappy 0.0
deep regions like cache, paragon soul, period basis with tons of ****ty true security.
which means everyone wants that same constellation, and nobody wants the rest of the region.
those regions are just an example.

maybe im naive, but i thought regions which was +30 jumps from empire would have tons of nice true sec.

---

This.

There's plenty of space, it's just that half of it is worthless. When you can make more ISK grinding Level 4's in complete safety than you can ratting in 0.0, something is wrong.

---

Originally by: Verite Rendition

---

I personally believe that 0.0 is full and needs to be expanded. For the reason why, I go with the following:

If you'll stick with me for a moment on biology, there's a concept known as the carrying capacity of an environment, which is how much of a population a given environment can support. 0.0 has effectively reached its carrying capacity, where we define carrying capacity as the amount of ISK-generating activities (the backbone of EVE) available in an area that are superior to what's available in high-sec Empire space. This is for a few reasons:

0) There are 4 real ways to make ISK in 0.0: Moon mining, ratting, exploration, and ore mining. Since all of the good moons are already claimed in 0.0, we're really down to 3 ways.

1) Much of 0.0 has a carrying capacity of 0, that is that there's nothing you can do in these systems that is more profitable than living in high-sec (and this is before costs of operating in 0.0). In these systems ratting is worse than L4 missions, mining is worse than high-sec mining, and the sec status returns exploration sites too poor compared to L4 missions again.

2) That leaves us with the good 0.0 systems. On any given week, the average system can support 1 concurrent ratter and a handful of hardcore miners mining ABC ore. Exploration supports less than 1 user per system since you have to go chase sites and there's not 1 good site per system. Once we've removed the bad 0.0 systems, we're looking at perhaps 1k-1.5k of these systems.

3) Should 0.0 exceed carrying capacity (more than 1 concurrent ratter, too many miners exhausting the ore, etc), it becomes less profitable to live in 0.0 than to live in high-sec.

4) Empire has additional ways to make money; besides trade routes the key among these is missions. There is an infinite supply of missions, each character assigned their own private deadspace to work in. This results in the best case scenario (everyone running missions in high-sec) of every Empire system having an infinite carrying capacity.

5) Because Empire has missions and 0.0 does not, this creates a massive imbalance between the two that allows Empire to carry many people, and 0.0 to carry few.

My point here is that 0.0 is full; aside from issues of new tenants moving in after wars, every system and every region is at carrying capacity for ratting and mining. CCP either needs to add missions to 0.0 (which would reduce much of the strain on other 0.0 ISK-generating activities) or add more 0.0 space. Either way, there needs to be more ISK-generating activities in 0.0 if more people are to be supported.

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Originally by: fire 59

---

I always liked the idea of having the 4 empires seperated by low sec and 0.0 being on the outskirts like it is now. No empire high ways between empires and would probably help encourage more than 1 trading hub (Jita)

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Originally by: fire 59

---

I always liked the idea of having the 4 empires seperated by low sec and 0.0 being on the outskirts like it is now. No empire high ways between empires and would probably help encourage more than 1 trading hub (Jita)

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Originally by: Thargor II

---

We used to just maintain bookmarks that were to objects 17k past the gate.

---

Originally by: NATMav

---

Originally by: Thargor II

---

We used to just maintain bookmarks that were to objects 17k past the gate.

---

I bet you died alot.

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Originally by: fire 59

---

I always liked the idea of having the 4 empires seperated by low sec and 0.0 being on the outskirts like it is now. No empire high ways between empires and would probably help encourage more than 1 trading hub (Jita)

---

Originally by: Dipluz

---

call it isk farming, but its reality.

and whith it comes people start leaving if eve isnt adding more space to travel in.

---

Originally by: Devian 666

---

Though overall ratting in 0.0 is pretty bad for revenue compared with high sec mission running.

---

Originally by: Devian 666

---

Hehe just read the comments about taxing people in your sov space. That'd be great charge ratters 5% tax to use your space and have the ability to charge 100% tax to people in npc corps ratting in your space.

---

Originally by: Janu Hull

---

Originally by: Devian 666

---

Hehe just read the comments about taxing people in your sov space. That'd be great charge ratters 5% tax to use your space and have the ability to charge 100% tax to people in npc corps ratting in your space.

---

Depending on the region, I'd be fine with up to 20% or more bounty taxes. The money from bounties is chump change. The real money's in the loot/reprocess/salvage game. Even then, that still benefits the local landlords because its your buy orders I'm probably filling.

---

Originally by: Grapez

---

The problem with 0.0 is that it takes too much time for battles to affect the political landscape. As it is now, if an alliance decides to take over system XYZ-123, they have to do the following: effectively lock down XYZ, jump in dreads, put towers into reinforced, keep XYZ locked down until towers come out of reinforced, jump in dreads, destroy towers, deploy friendly towers, wait until sovereignty flips.

The effort it takes to take over a system is just about right; you should need to actually try in order to call a system your own. However, the time it takes is too much.

I would suggest either 1.) towers pop as soon as they run out of HP, get rid of reinforced mode or 2.) limit the stront bay on towers to 12 hours, at the most. This way, a battle that takes place today could translate into a sovereignty flip tomorrow. This would allow for a more fluid and dynamic political map that actually reflects the abilities and aspirations of current alliances, as opposed to the time sink that is the current state of POS warfare.

---

Originally by: Devian 666

---

Hehe just read the comments about taxing people in your sov space. That'd be great charge ratters 5% tax to use your space and have the ability to charge 100% tax to people in npc corps ratting in your space.

---

Originally by: Taurequis

---

Hi,

Just had a thought after seeing the alt post of "POS wars or NO".

My opinion is that back in the day alot of things were made fun because of the isolation we used to have. We now have 40k people in the space we used to fit 5k.

Even with all the POS stuff and their associated wars would eve feel more like the old days if we added another bunch of regions beyond the existing ones?

More empty space, more distace to travel, less blobs?

Does it take that much more processing power in the server clusters to make more regions available?

What does everyone think?

Bigger sandpit makes better corp and alliance level play? Yes or No?

Your opinions welcome.

Thanks,

Taur

---

Originally by: fugazii

---

Initially it would create a vacuum bringing people there, like the drone regions have done. However the unfortunate part of the drone regions is, and i mean no offense by this, full of people who only own space because there was no one there already claiming it. They fight amongst themselves, but shown time and again that when actual alliances roll in there, they trample the residents.

---

Originally by: Princess Jodi

---

Originally by: fugazii

---

Initially it would create a vacuum bringing people there, like the drone regions have done. However the unfortunate part of the drone regions is, and i mean no offense by this, full of people who only own space because there was no one there already claiming it. They fight amongst themselves, but shown time and again that when actual alliances roll in there, they trample the residents.

---

What a load of BS! AFAIK the only 'actual alliance' to move into the Drone Regions was MC, and they didn't go far. Our alliance has killed off 2 alliances that were weak and helped Razor/MM regain what they lost. We came here on Day 1 and built/conqured everything we own.

If anything, the Drone Regions should give you a good impression of what will happen if new space is opened up: Major Powers did not scoop up space, many new alliances popped up and some were popped down. The challenges of making and Empire out of nothing chased off alot of people, while those same challenges attracted some people. There was a Gold Rush in the early days and dissillusionment at the myriad of problems with Moons, Asteroids, NPC's, Exploration, etc.

Eve is too small. More regions would be great.

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Originally by: Devian 666

---

Hehe just read the comments about taxing people in your sov space. That'd be great charge ratters 5% tax to use your space and have the ability to charge 100% tax to people in npc corps ratting in your space.

---

Originally by: ardik

---

CCP need to fix the -0.01 true sec systems that barely spawn kernite, those systems are just a waste of space.

More space? No thanks, i like to occasionally see other people in MMOs.

---

Originally by: NATMav

---

I always thought the truesec should be affected by activity in the system. An over-farmed system slowly gains security, becoming less valuable, while unused systems slowly go lower and become more valuable. It would ecourage players to spread out more instead of fighting over a few good systems per region and hanging around the stations all the time. It works pretty well with mining...if you strip mine a system, you have to move on to another sytstem, or wait for the roids to regen.

---

Originally by: Rogen DarHeel

---

Back to the original question: Does EVE need more space?

Well I think EVE is suppose to model a galaxy. If you take a look at the interactive map, it does look like a galaxy some what. However, lets take our own Milky Way Galaxy as an example. Scientists estimate that it has about 400 billion stars... 400 billion. It is also about 90,000 light years across. So unless the EVE galaxy was meant to remain a pathetic excuse for a real one, I think the EVE galaxy, should definitely have more stars.

The thing about a 90,000 light year across galaxy is that it is immensely difficult for a 15 ly jump range ship to cross. I think a fix for this though is not adding new EVE regions way out on the ends of the EVE galaxy but to add these new stars in the middle of the galaxy, change the measure of distance that determines the size of the galaxy and then make the jump ranges of jump capable ships much longer. With this model of reformation, the EVE galaxy could increase to the size of a real galaxy as technology permits.

Can you image the number of players, the number of alliances and the massive fighting that would occur!?!? It would be stupendous!! >:)

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Originally by: awebon

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Originally by: Niedar

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Allow the destruction of outposts and all will be good ;0

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this is perfect...

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Originally by: Haniblecter Teg

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WHile I agree that 00 can be filled up if 00 ratting were made wtf10000x more profitable than lvl4's, you'll need to do this while balancing inflation. Cause throwing even more ISK into the system cant be good.

If anything, increase the sinks, reduce lvl4 rewards, increase security rating for far distant regions while increasing some of the middle regions will work to correct the shortcomings of earning in 00.

As for making space bigger, I really think removing local may do some good. But the biggest change will be to make some constellations more appealing. For example, in Fade there's one constellation worth a damn. You either own it, or you move elsewhere. The difference in ISK between it, around -.6 and up, and the other systems, -.5 and below, is quite stark.

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Originally by: Volir

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Make the crap 0.0 space worth something. Make lowsec worth something.

How about we move the agents? All level 4s are moved to lowsec and nullsec. All level 5s are in nullsec. Upgrade the encounter system for nullsec. Booyah, Empire is nerfed, lowsec is boosted, and nullsec gets some love.

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Originally by: PMolkenthin

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Im not exactly an old school player, but I do remember > 10k players on TQ.

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Originally by: Mattduk

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Edited by: Mattduk on 26/11/2007 22:12:29
Inflation and deflation aren't just about prices.

Inflation is a greater increase of spendable money within an economy in relation to the increase in population.

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Quote:

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More isk is generated daily in Eve, via faucets, than is removed, via sinks. This is inflation. The rate at which the quantity of isk existing in game increases is not matched by the increase in population.

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However, since supply and demand actually control prices in a free market economy, you can have inflation and a decrease in prices at the same time.

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Originally by: Devian 666

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What I envision of 0.0 is something with more economic flow. The limited tools available for managing 0.0 make it difficult to build into anything of significant value.

More tools including taxation of ratting or similar system would encourage alliances to let more people into their space. Then you could have a 0.0 economy like CVA but without the NRDS anti-pvper policy.

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Originally by: Hardin

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Originally by: Devian 666

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What I envision of 0.0 is something with more economic flow. The limited tools available for managing 0.0 make it difficult to build into anything of significant value.

More tools including taxation of ratting or similar system would encourage alliances to let more people into their space. Then you could have a 0.0 economy like CVA but without the NRDS anti-pvper policy.

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I agree with your sentiment about developing the tools to manage regions - however I have to disagree with your NRDS 'anti-PvPer' comment. Come to Providence - join the forces of good (AKA Amarr) trying to enforce NRDS and then tell me that it is anti-PvP.

It would be anti-PvP if everyone agreed with the approach - however there are plenty of people (including your chaps) who don't

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Originally by: Devian 666

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Edited by: Devian 666 on 27/11/2007 02:38:37

Originally by: Hardin

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Originally by: Devian 666

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What I envision of 0.0 is something with more economic flow. The limited tools available for managing 0.0 make it difficult to build into anything of significant value.

More tools including taxation of ratting or similar system would encourage alliances to let more people into their space. Then you could have a 0.0 economy like CVA but without the NRDS anti-pvper policy.

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I agree with your sentiment about developing the tools to manage regions - however I have to disagree with your NRDS 'anti-PvPer' comment. Come to Providence - join the forces of good (AKA Amarr) trying to enforce NRDS and then tell me that it is anti-PvP.

It would be anti-PvP if everyone agreed with the approach - however there are plenty of people (including your chaps) who don't

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I call it anti-pvp because NRDS requires too much thinking and checking. So I'll call it a "pro-headache" policy, or NeRDS to keep you happy.

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Originally by: Janu Hull

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Edited by: Janu Hull on 27/11/2007 03:13:32

Originally by: Devian 666

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Edited by: Devian 666 on 27/11/2007 02:38:37

Originally by: Hardin

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Originally by: Devian 666

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What I envision of 0.0 is something with more economic flow. The limited tools available for managing 0.0 make it difficult to build into anything of significant value.

More tools including taxation of ratting or similar system would encourage alliances to let more people into their space. Then you could have a 0.0 economy like CVA but without the NRDS anti-pvper policy.

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I agree with your sentiment about developing the tools to manage regions - however I have to disagree with your NRDS 'anti-PvPer' comment. Come to Providence - join the forces of good (AKA Amarr) trying to enforce NRDS and then tell me that it is anti-PvP.

It would be anti-PvP if everyone agreed with the approach - however there are plenty of people (including your chaps) who don't

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I call it anti-pvp because NRDS requires too much thinking and checking. So I'll call it a "pro-headache" policy, or NeRDS to keep you happy.

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Its just as easy to mark corps red as it does blue. Only when someone new starts causing grief, or someone supposedly friendly goes hostile, do we bother them for any kind of management help. Most of the time its a matter of letting new people know who existing hostiles are when they ask, and that's something very easily handled by the ratters without bothering CVA.

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Originally by: Graalum

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Originally by: Mattduk

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Edited by: Mattduk on 26/11/2007 22:12:29
Inflation and deflation aren't just about prices.

Inflation is a greater increase of spendable money within an economy in relation to the increase in population.

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dead wrong. inflation depends on quantity of money and supply of goods. Current a smaller and smaller portion of the population is working in direct isk generation, while many more are involved in invention, t2 and t1 production, rig production, exploration, trade, etc, that typically don't increase the quantity of money. With an increase in goods for sale, and increased ease in production, you either need an increase in the speed of money (unlikely with current mechanics) or a decrease in prices to reach an equilibrium trade volume.

Quote:

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More isk is generated daily in Eve, via faucets, than is removed, via sinks. This is inflation. The rate at which the quantity of isk existing in game increases is not matched by the increase in population.

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Your definition of inflation is wrong, and you offer no proof other than an factless allegation.

Quote:

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However, since supply and demand actually control prices in a free market economy, you can have inflation and a decrease in prices at the same time.

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wts intro to econ skillbook.

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Originally by: Securion Wolfheart

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EVE feels very crowded these days.

More space? Hell yes!

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Originally by: Securion Wolfheart

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EVE feels very crowded these days.

More space? Hell yes!

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Originally by: RogerWilco

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I agree with what has been said earlier, remove local chat, and u should only know what is in a system if u are in it, structures and man wise.

surprises ftw..

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Originally by: Alz Shado

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What would make more people move to the less crowded parts of 0.0 space? Being able to anchor POS guns around gates in systems where they have Sov 2 or higher, with higher sov = more firepower. They can be set to fire on WTs only, Hostiles, non-Alliance members, and even individuals with low standings. They also allow for manual control, for taking up positions against known incoming threats.

They won't stop a cap ship steamroller (cynos don't use gates), but it would keep home systems a bit more protected from harrier raids, as well as give incentive for small alliances to risk their tiny nest eggs to move out to dangerous territory AND give them a fighting chance in their first few days in unfriendly territory.

It would also emphasize tactics for new ships coming out in Trinity, such as the Blackops. Want to get your gang into an enemy's system station? Make it more work than blobbing the gate and hoping you win the lag lottery (aka, Powerpoint Online)

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Originally by: Moon Kitten

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Originally by: Securion Wolfheart

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EVE feels very crowded these days.

More space? Hell yes!

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There's lots of empty space in 0.0 that isn't being used.

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Pandas are the PWN of Eve. Pandas!

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Originally by: Naridos

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Originally by: Moon Kitten

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Originally by: Securion Wolfheart

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EVE feels very crowded these days.

More space? Hell yes!

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There's lots of empty space in 0.0 that isn't being used.

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Have to agree here. The fact that you are in someones sov space and you jump into system to find only yourself in local, I would say that there is plenty of space.

Statistically speaking, and this may be a bit inaccurate, there is only 9% of all eve players living in 0.0. There are places in Eve where yes, there are huge gangs running around and it may seem crowded but you have to look at everywhere else. There is SOOOOO much space not being used with only 9% of people in 0.0 and there is a lot of room to grow.

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Originally by: Ndundhu

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We are entering an era where we are so many that we actually have to fight for the resources now. Territorial warfare is fun and it would be a shame to add more systems so people would expand instead of fight.

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Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus

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If anything there is to much crap 0.0 space.

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Originally by: Re Mi

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We don't need more space, what we need is terrain. Right now a system only has a POS, some roid belts and some gates. There aren't really any spatial features except cosmetic ones. Certain areas of eve should be full of energy clouds blocking scanners, places where you could hide small bands of pirates or revolutionaries, or holdouts from battles. There should be places that few ships dare travel due to natural hazards. There should be places where communications is spotty, and you are on your own, cut off from the rest of eve. There are a lot of things you can do with terrain, and the "lay of the land" that would make space more interesting.

Put this in WW2 perspective. Every battle fought in eve is like the battle for Poland or the lowland areas in Europe. It is a flat, largely unobstructed area. Huge armies could blaze across it. It created a pure, force on force structure where battles were fought out like giant diagrams of men and machines.

We need to get out of that paradigm, and get into something more like the high seas of 1820's. There were pirates in remote coves, full of dangerous unmapped shoals, while the major sea lanes were controlled by the great powers and the smaller powers were able to navigate from protected ports. Everyone had a place to make their stand on equal footing, and people had a place to build their base of power. Such a move would also help to get us away from POS warfare/blobs, and more towards battles of maneuver, and terrain, which could be a lot more fun, and require tactical and strategic thinking because blobs would get broken up by terrain, or trapped and anhihiliated by forces better equipped for specialized terrain.

It would also add the possibility of secret bases, of holdout resistance in a system, and of the need to actually pacify and hold space, rather than simply blow up a few ships and declare victory. It would also add new logistics fun, allowing small scale operators a place to work from, add secrecy as an extra layer of security. It would make exploration and intelligence much more important, making small roving gangs have a much more useful function. I think all of the focus on new mods and production techniques in the game has been misplaced to a certain extent, and more attention ought to be placed on game environment.

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Originally by: The Djego

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Low Sec should be boosted for better rats(and loot ofc) and better reward.

- more systems should have -0.7 or better
- more PVE Contend to fill your walled and give the older Player a risky but worthy option
- some new NPC Regions for high end PVE Contend(giving the reward you want if you can do every L4 semi afk and asking for a chalange, and yes a Solotanked a L5 in a HAC)
- some High Sec Isles in 0.0 for trading and producing suff and a better market overall
- boost Low Sec

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Originally by: PleXD

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To change this the outer regions (regions furthest from empire) need to have a sec status of about -.2 or -.3 or lower for every system.
The regions adjacent to empire have a high number of residence and people travelling through. The people living here do not need to travel far to buy the cheap ships and mods that invention brought to the game. So the sec status of these systems does not need to be changed.

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Originally by: levitron

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How about making a lot more entry points to 0.0 so small guys have a chance to even get in. Right now 1 gate camp just about keeps everyone out.

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Originally by: Jacob Castillo

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Massively reduce alliance sizes, and the size of the space they hold. I'd imagine that this would also effect gang sizes too, so you'd be killing a few problems at once. Somehow...

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Originally by: FOFOFOF

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- Anchor sentries at 0.0 gates

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Originally by: Maladora

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Originally by: FOFOFOF

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- Anchor sentries at 0.0 gates

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Whats the argument behind not having that?

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Originally by: Morris Falter

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Wasn't this brought up already?

Basically was a toss up between having lots of 0.0 space undeveloped (which it is at the moment)

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Originally by: The Dokter

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5. Remove level 4 agents from high sec and place them all in low sec, this would make the risk reward situation better.

Hopefully some devs will read this thread and make some changes.

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Originally by: Anglo

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i always said that the eve univers should be MUCH larger.. soem are saying that 00 is underpopulated.. that might be true, but why arent those alliances wich are out there alow people to go there then WITHOUT being in there alliance.

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nowadays you cant enter a 04 system without facing gankers at the gates, and into 00 the alliances hold a foot with bubles etc... im not saying that we need more space. i think we do however. to get the feelign back of being lost somewhere..

BUT i would highly sugest taht ccp adds wormhole into the game... and new wormhole travel skill... maybe also a find wormhole skill..

the wormhole should be in empire... prefared 05-09 systems.. and would leed directly to deep 00... once u located a wormhole it will be there for 1 week. after 1 week you will have to relocate it again..

by doing this u would alow for alot of things to happend...

sneek atacks on alliances..

NON alliance players to go rat in 00

etc..

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Originally by: Maladora

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Originally by: FOFOFOF

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- Anchor sentries at 0.0 gates

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Whats the argument behind not having that?

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Originally by: Snowden Vel

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I like the dynamic truesec idea and a few of the other ones that have been broached in here but a lot of the most drastic complaints come from people who basically want something for nothing. In 0.0 EVE is at its best because of the military and diplomatic imperatives that come with holding space. There should not be enough space to keep everyone happy. What's the point of competing if there are no winners and losers?

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