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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:20:00 -
[1]
Hi,
Just had a thought after seeing the alt post of "POS wars or NO".
My opinion is that back in the day alot of things were made fun because of the isolation we used to have. We now have 40k people in the space we used to fit 5k.
Even with all the POS stuff and their associated wars would eve feel more like the old days if we added another bunch of regions beyond the existing ones?
More empty space, more distace to travel, less blobs?
Does it take that much more processing power in the server clusters to make more regions available?
What does everyone think?
Bigger sandpit makes better corp and alliance level play? Yes or No?
Your opinions welcome.
Thanks,
Taur
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Adamantium Beams
Section XIII
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:22:00 -
[2]
We only need less ppl and more money
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PMolkenthin
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:24:00 -
[3]
Im not exactly an old school player, but I do remember > 10k players on TQ. 
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Jacob Castillo
Caldari Copperhead Inc. Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:27:00 -
[4]
Massively reduce alliance sizes, and the size of the space they hold. I'd imagine that this would also effect gang sizes too, so you'd be killing a few problems at once. Somehow...
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Wraith foc
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:29:00 -
[5]
Wasnt 1 of the reasons for outposts to make more of 0.0 useful.. and still large numbers of systems arent being used.
I'm not even sure the premise that distance would be a great factor, is correct.. groups just relocate for weeks or months to operate in far away regions.. because of POS warfare they have days to relocate back if someone actually attacked their stations..
It might make hunting NPC'ers easier, as they would be more spread, but that is about it..
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Morris Falter
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:31:00 -
[6]
Wasn't this brought up already?
Basically was a toss up between having lots of 0.0 space undeveloped (which it is at the moment) or more space for gigantic power blocs to go conquer, which again unless you're really careful, become inhabitated by substandard corps providing little to no sport, and just farming their belts all day.
More space = part of the solution. More opportunities for smaller groups to be able to make a spot for themselves without the fear of the blob would be nice too.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:34:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 22/11/2007 16:34:49 Increase the difficulties of logistics and maintainance and alliances will automatically shrink because they will become too bored with fueling pos and logistics and all. Therefore Eve will feel bigger again.
Nerf carriers as haulers and increase the costs of jumpbrige usage... oh wait!
But anyway, more space is really necesary! Especially because new players have no chance to gather good moons for moon mining. All in the hands of the big alliances.
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Ohne
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:34:00 -
[8]
0.0 is empty tbh...
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Nebuchadnezzar I
Art of War
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:44:00 -
[9]
Nerfing logistics is definately a way, but again i wouldnt underestimate the ability of large groups to still manage huge logistics just fine and so it would just be something generally annoying everyone more.
Jumpbridges as they are atm is a joke really.
I dont know if more space is needed, loads of systems unused around - i fear for the day 0.0 is plastered with outposts, it just wont be the same.
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Lowanaera
Amarr Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:51:00 -
[10]
There's more than enough space to accommodate more people. A 1000-1500 person alliance can live pretty comfortably in a single region, and there are plenty of alliances with far lower density than that.
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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:53:00 -
[11]
Hi,
Nice replies so far.
Alot of people say that 0.0 space is empty just now. I don't see this as so.
3 years or more ago you could call it empty without an outpost within 5 jumps from you whatever region you are in and a tenth of the people in the same space.
Thanks for the replies so far, keep it up.
Taur
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Aprudena Gist
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:56:00 -
[12]
it would be nice to have my own ratting system.
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Louis DelaBlanche
Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:02:00 -
[13]
Theres pleanty of empty space around atm. Alot of alliances/corps tend to "live" out of a few of the best systems/constellation in a region, leaving the rest for those ppl who want a system of their own to rat in at the risk of much less security from corp/allymates. Adding more space wont mean ppl spread out, it just mean more focused clusters of ppl surrounded by empty systems.
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:05:00 -
[14]
TBH, more of the problem is that lowsec ores are less valuable than highsec ores, as are 'bad' 0.0 ores. Not to mention the content available in those regions. There needs to be a boost so that lowsec space is worth more than highsec, and 'bad' 0.0 space is worth more than low/highsec. Then those areas can become more populated rather than totally neglected because they have all the disadvantages 0.0 and none of the advantages.
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Gungankllr
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:07:00 -
[15]
0.0 only seems full because of the way territorial soverignity works.
if you have an alt drive through 0.0 you'll see that there's a great many systems out there with nobody or nothing in them, but if you look at the map and check colored dots it appears to be more crowded than it actually is.
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Gard Stardust
Gallente Pringles Inc. STYX.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:07:00 -
[16]
Actually Ohne is right, 0.0 is underpopulated.
There is plenty of open space which is only being used by some isk farmers here and there occasionally.
Maybe part of the reason is, that living out of a POS is too complicated - Refining and Reprocessing and storing ships and modules should eventually be made more easy.
Eventually there are also too few choke points, that lead into 0.0.
The introduction of jump bridges doesnt help with populating systems, too - in my opinion they are a bad idea, as alliance can claim more space with smaller numbers...
All this leads to having only NPC stations / Outpost - systems and choke points having some kind of dense population.
The introducing of the Rorqual might finally bring people into more remote systems.
I think that the mothership could eventually be improved by giving it a role as a mobile base, too. Maybe like the Mothership in the game "homeworld" it should also be given the possibility to produce (maybe only up to battlecruiser size) and research, both with special modules for the mothership. Together with a POS and a Rorqual single corps could easily claim remote systems and base their operations from there.
The carrier and the mothership should be able to jump with docked pilots, so that they can bring troops behind enemy lines (i think a single carrier can jump 7 assembled cruiser sized vessels).
Thats my 2 cents...
but maybe this rather belongs to the game development part of this forum,
Gard Stardust
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FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:08:00 -
[17]
space is fine...
what would improve the game imhfo: - Support for fleet battles (like 200x200 without desynch and stuff) - Inflation control.
what i dream of: - Automated mining (i hate to do repetitive stuff) - Anchor sentries at 0.0 gates
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Lowa
Gallente North Star Networks Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:12:00 -
[18]
More space...yes...a little maybe. But what is more needed is imho changing the way you control space. I hate POS. I see why they are needed but I still hate them. It forces people into one system to fight over it and we all know what happens when 500+ people duke it out.
Sometimes I honestly wish we were back when conqurable stations were the only thing. If you wanted to keep that, you need to back it up. And it was (almost) always possible to take it back if you lost it. Not that it did or would solve the gigantic single-system-gangbangs we are used to know when taking down strategic targets but... Station ping-pong was boring for sure but honestly, isnt knocking down 40 POS's and having to errect (yes, I did say it) 40 of your own a helluva lot more boring?
Might be drifting of topic here I admit, but POS's are one of the reasons I think this EVE War is going to...stop. Who in their right mind would like to keep up something so mindnumbing as POS's spam, POS warfare, POS managing at the level needed for another year? And pay real $ for it?
Need more space? No, better utilization of it. And the possibility to destroy OP's. Its getting crowded out there. 
Aww...heck. Dont listen to me, I'm old, grumpy and I've waited 20 mins to pass teh Entering Game for Trinity testserver. I dont make any sense, I can feel it.
Cheers, Lowa
What if the truth was something else? |

Taurequis
Waylander 01
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 17:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gard Stardust Actually Ohne is right, 0.0 is underpopulated.
There is plenty of open space which is only being used by some isk farmers here and there occasionally.
Maybe part of the reason is, that living out of a POS is too complicated - Refining and Reprocessing and storing ships and modules should eventually be made more easy.
Eventually there are also too few choke points, that lead into 0.0.
The introduction of jump bridges doesnt help with populating systems, too - in my opinion they are a bad idea, as alliance can claim more space with smaller numbers...
All this leads to having only NPC stations / Outpost - systems and choke points having some kind of dense population.
The introducing of the Rorqual might finally bring people into more remote systems.
I think that the mothership could eventually be improved by giving it a role as a mobile base, too. Maybe like the Mothership in the game "homeworld" it should also be given the possibility to produce (maybe only up to battlecruiser size) and research, both with special modules for the mothership. Together with a POS and a Rorqual single corps could easily claim remote systems and base their operations from there.
The carrier and the mothership should be able to jump with docked pilots, so that they can bring troops behind enemy lines (i think a single carrier can jump 7 assembled cruiser sized vessels).
Thats my 2 cents...
but maybe this rather belongs to the game development part of this forum,
Gard Stardust
some pretty nice ideas in there.
Keep it up peeps, good discussion overall, even though most of you are disagreeing with me. 
Best Regards,
Taur
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:15:00 -
[20]
More space for crap alliances to surrender at the first hint of trouble? No thanks.
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ardik
TunkbwahCorp
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:15:00 -
[21]
CCP need to fix the -0.01 true sec systems that barely spawn kernite, those systems are just a waste of space.
More space? No thanks, i like to occasionally see other people in MMOs.
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Niedar
MASS
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:17:00 -
[22]
Allow the destruction of outposts and all will be good ;0 ------------------
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awebon
Minmatar The Illuminati. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Niedar Allow the destruction of outposts and all will be good ;0
this is perfect... ====================================
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JabJabVVV
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ohne 0.0 is empty
QFT.
Blobs are not caused by space size but by game play mechanics, as an additional comment: blobs aren't bad. epic fleet battles are, infact... epic. However they are perceived as bad again because of poor game mechanics.
In short the problem is not the amount of space or the density of population it's the ****ty fleet warfare system: infinitely large, homogeneous blob with infinitely small diameter being the optimum fleet setup, combined with no LOS, electronic interference, no damage stacking etc. etc. (and of course lag) leads to boring gameplay and whining.
More space = bad idea. It's not the cause of the problems and less space breeds conflict and conflict = fun. ----------- When I was a n00b, I spake as a n00b, I understood as a n00b, I thought as a n00b: but when I became pr0, I put away n00bish things. |

Kvarium Ki
Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:48:00 -
[25]
If you open more space people allready in 0.0 aren't going to move there. 0.0 will not get less crowded, empire will.
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Tiberius Decius
Daedalus Initiative Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:54:00 -
[26]
If the server could handle 200 vs 200 man fights alot of the problems would be solved. At least then you could take out the opposing force and then kill the pos's. Instead of 1 battle taking course over and hour or more just due to lag. If it was a no lag fight the battle would be over in less then 10 mins, with one side getting victory and then easily moving on to kill POS's
Ive seen Pos's go down in 20mins or less with a few dreads on them, tbh thats not to bad
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Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:59:00 -
[27]
/me remembers back to the good old days when his corp had a great 0.0 constellation all to itself and geminate felt like the wild west. Ah the good old days.
anyways, agree with one point thats already been made: the rewards of great 0.0 space need to be increased a little bit, the rewards of good 0.0 space need to be increased alot, and the the rewards of crap 0.0 space need to be increased dramatically. Also it might be cool if guristas, thukker tribe, and maybe a few others would scatter a couple more npc stations around their space. a station in the nrael pipe for instance would be cool for some piraty types i bet. Your signature graphic must reflect your ingame persona as per The Forum rules - Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |

Taurequis
Waylander 01
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 18:04:00 -
[28]
Hi,
Do we have any dev blogs breaking down people living and working in 0.0 vs empire space?
Or even a post roughly showing the isk/per hour breakdown of say npc'ing vs high sec mining, vs empire missioning etc?
I think that would lead the discussion on a bit since alot of the posts are indicating the issue with 0.0 not being lack of space, more lack of workable and useful space...
Thanks,
Taur
|

Howling Jinn
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 18:06:00 -
[29]
theres too much crappy 0.0 deep regions like cache, paragon soul, period basis with tons of ****ty true security. which means everyone wants that same constellation, and nobody wants the rest of the region. those regions are just an example.
maybe im naive, but i thought regions which was +30 jumps from empire would have tons of nice true sec.
i however wouldnt mind having alot more regions come into the game. my view is that way back when i started, alot of the map felt uncharted(sp?). when going deeper one felt like an explorer.
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TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2007.11.22 18:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gnulpie Edited by: Gnulpie on 22/11/2007 16:34:49 Increase the difficulties of logistics and maintainance and alliances will automatically shrink because they will become too bored with fueling pos and logistics and all. Therefore Eve will feel bigger again.
Nerf carriers as haulers and increase the costs of jumpbrige usage... oh wait!
But anyway, more space is really necesary! Especially because new players have no chance to gather good moons for moon mining. All in the hands of the big alliances.
Sad, but rorqual and jump freighters will eventually(in... 1-3 months) make the carrier nerf obsolete.
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sakana
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.11.22 18:48:00 -
[31]
I dunno, atm there is a LOT of empty space. 80% of systems in 0.0 are empty. Under 10% of eve players live in 0.0.
I don't think we lack space, just the will to take it.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.22 18:56:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 22/11/2007 18:59:44 Edited by: Plutoinum on 22/11/2007 18:56:24
Originally by: PMolkenthin Im not exactly an old school player, but I do remember > 10k players on TQ. 
I remember times with like 12k players, when I was living in Curse, and I agree to the OP that I liked that more, because alliances with more than 1000 players were rare, actually there were only a few, maybe 4 or 5. Alliances blobbing up together did usually not happen at that time. A lot off smaller battles were even just between players of only 2 corps.
So I agree to the Op that it was more fun and relaxing, before 0.0 got full with big alliances, who formed even bigger coalitions and war was suddenly about pos crap and capitals.
But guess that time is lost and won't ever come back. I'm realist. But I don't play EVE currently mostly because of that. Waiting for better times so to speak that may come or not. 
/edit Ambulation and factional warfare still interests me and I can imagine that it goes well together and allows interesting rp, so maybe I go that route, when it comes out.
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Secondus Dawkins
Fade to Black Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:00:00 -
[33]
A little more deep space would be interesting, especially if it wasn't conquerable. Imagine a few distant 0.0 regions, far away, but without chokepoints so that it would be hard for people to cut off access. Then, disable POSs for whatever reason (give the rats Dread gangs, put up rat POSs, drastically increase fuel use for POSs in remote regions so that it's just not worth it, whatever). This way it will be hard for anyone to actually claim and hold the space. Now the Rorqual, Jump Freighter, jump-bridging BS and MoM really come into their own. A small corp can jump deeply into un-owned space, set up a mobile mining/ratting op and have it really feel like the wild west. Any space you can hold is yours, but just as long as you're there. It would add an entirely new dimension to the game. Eve is all about the freedom to do different things, well this would definitely be different. It also wouldn't be very blob friendly if it was many conventional jumps away. Who wants to sign up for a 2-3 hr op when you don't know if you'll see anyone the whole time.
BTW, this is absolutley the wrong forum for this discussion
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Skarvl Mandoo
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 19:41:00 -
[34]
Originally by: ardik CCP need to fix the -0.01 true sec systems that barely spawn kernite, those systems are just a waste of space.
More space? No thanks, i like to occasionally see other people in MMOs.
This. There are too many crap systems in 0.0. They are all just as deadly, they're all 0.0 after all People clump around the handful of good systems and disregard the crap systems, unless they have to travel through them or POS spam them.
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Dr Bernard
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:51:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Dr Bernard on 22/11/2007 19:51:37 Isn't > 70% of eve population within high sec space ? Not sure how more space would change that - the density of population doesnt matter in high sec
I would say a good idea would be more agents or uber NPC corps based in 0.0 or low sec. Kind of like Serpentis being in Curse region. You have a real incentive to go there and get hold of uber faction loot
As many people here have already mentioned the trick is to figure how to make low and 0.0 sec more attractive to Joe Bloggs players.
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Ndundhu
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:52:00 -
[36]
We are entering an era where we are so many that we actually have to fight for the resources now. Territorial warfare is fun and it would be a shame to add more systems so people would expand instead of fight.
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Iron Zarkasm
Gallente Zarkastic Disease
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: PMolkenthin Im not exactly an old school player, but I do remember > 10k players on TQ. 
Just make it around 8:00 am Eve-Time on weekdays to become sentimental like that :)
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.22 19:57:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Howling Jinn theres too much crappy 0.0 deep regions like cache, paragon soul, period basis with tons of ****ty true security. which means everyone wants that same constellation, and nobody wants the rest of the region. those regions are just an example.
maybe im naive, but i thought regions which was +30 jumps from empire would have tons of nice true sec.
This.
There's plenty of space, it's just that half of it is worthless. When you can make more ISK grinding Level 4's in complete safety than you can ratting in 0.0, something is wrong.
Farham: "Remember, sometimes evolution ends in extinction." |

welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 19:58:00 -
[39]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 22/11/2007 19:59:07 I do like the fact that now and then a large alliance pops up that you've never even heard of. As far as I'm concerned the galaxy should be made as big as is technologically possible. The current universe is too 'globalised', you can get anywhere in about an hour if you put your mind to it. It's also too focussed on the one big fight thats currently taking place. Theres little room for other powers to spread their wings.
So yeah I'm all up for space expansion on a large scale but not if the penalty is a severe server performance drop. o/ [Balance] The Caldari problem. |

BlackHorizon
Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.11.22 20:12:00 -
[40]
More space and remove warp to zero entirely.
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Raid
Caldari Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.11.22 20:20:00 -
[41]
space is small because the game chrinks it for us.
1. Local Chat: Remove local chat and all of a sudden space feels very cold and empty. 2. Map Info: You shouldnt be able to find out whats in a solarsystem without actually visiting it. That includes who has Sov, how many people are there, what structures exist there. 3. Jump Drives: Logistics are too easy with jump drives/bridges. I doubt this will change however...
Space doesnt need to get bigger... we just need to do more of the exploring ourselves.
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Cuebick
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.11.22 20:26:00 -
[42]
Imagine having two empires.. the only way to cross the bridge would to travel in 0.0 space. oooh the joy
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 20:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Raid space is small because the game chrinks it for us.
1. Local Chat: Remove local chat and all of a sudden space feels very cold and empty. 2. Map Info: You shouldnt be able to find out whats in a solarsystem without actually visiting it. That includes who has Sov, how many people are there, what structures exist there. 3. Jump Drives: Logistics are too easy with jump drives/bridges. I doubt this will change however...
Space doesnt need to get bigger... we just need to do more of the exploring ourselves.
I do agree on that..the game mechanics have made space 'small'. We need 0.0 to become frightening again (lol), and increase the reward factor (better npcs, better ore, better exploration) at the same time. Sig removed for the third time, inappropriate content. Sig Locked. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |

Vasili Z
Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.11.22 21:23:00 -
[44]
If there was more space, everyone would just forge more powerblocs the same way they have now, people don't change, they only want to win.  -------
Everything I say represents my corporation and their views. |

Dao2SKP
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 21:51:00 -
[45]
we don't need more space :| there's already tons of unused space. For a good reason though :S only a few systems out of any region are really decent, a lot of them hold no better ore then low-sec empire.... and the sec status doesn't exactly have the hottest rats either :|
So in short, make the space not suck ;p
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K'Bar
Caldari Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 21:52:00 -
[46]
Edited by: K''Bar on 22/11/2007 21:53:29
Originally by: Cuebick Edited by: Cuebick on 22/11/2007 20:27:20 Imagine having two empires.. the only way to cross the bridge would to travel in 0.0 space. oooh the joy
edit: You could only buy/manifacture certain things in each empire.. would make traffic between empires .. fun? ^^
Actually thatÆs not a bad idea, but I would separate all the major factions (Caldari, etc) and put 0.0 in the middle and along the outsides of each factions systems. That way if you wanted to get to another faction's space you would be forced to travel through 0.0. Also, I would make it where you can get killed by factions you have a bad security rating with instead of that one security lvl we have now. I would also put a couple of major supply Stations (Jita 1, 2 ,3) in the middle and have jump bridges/gates in those sectors which a pilot can pay a fee for its use to get to the major areas. I would also suggest we increase the profitability of all the 0.0 systems (upgraded the loot, minerals, etc) so people would spread out in 0.0. Then I would add some new 0.0 systems and put them on the outskirts of each factionÆs area with one lonely last NPC outpost (.5) and use them for exploration only. Have rare loot found in those areas so the time spent searching is way worth the investment.
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RogerWilco
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.22 22:01:00 -
[47]
I agree with what has been said earlier, remove local chat, and u should only know what is in a system if u are in it, structures and man wise.
surprises ftw..
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Hungo
Minmatar Unholy Foundation Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.22 22:09:00 -
[48]
You think 40k is alot but tbh its to little, there are thousands of systems that just dont have any people in 24/7
The nubs congregate around stations and the idiots die to belt rats and the ISK farmers, well there Just ******s
Bring CA back, bring back the olds ways,
Do we need more space? No, you just need to venture more than 3 jumps from an outpost
Epic fail
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Ajja 17
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.22 22:11:00 -
[49]
It's funny how everybody who wants to nerf alliances is in a failed alliance ;)
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Hungo
Minmatar Unholy Foundation Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.22 22:13:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ajja 17 It's funny how everybody who wants to nerf alliances is in a failed alliance ;)
QFT
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar Fnck the blob.
|
Posted - 2007.11.22 22:28:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Lowa More space...yes...a little maybe. But what is more needed is imho changing the way you control space. I hate POS. I see why they are needed but I still hate them. It forces people into one system to fight over it and we all know what happens when 500+ people duke it out.
Sometimes I honestly wish we were back when conqurable stations were the only thing. If you wanted to keep that, you need to back it up. And it was (almost) always possible to take it back if you lost it. Not that it did or would solve the gigantic single-system-gangbangs we are used to know when taking down strategic targets but... Station ping-pong was boring for sure but honestly, isnt knocking down 40 POS's and having to errect (yes, I did say it) 40 of your own a helluva lot more boring?
Might be drifting of topic here I admit, but POS's are one of the reasons I think this EVE War is going to...stop. Who in their right mind would like to keep up something so mindnumbing as POS's spam, POS warfare, POS managing at the level needed for another year? And pay real $ for it?
Need more space? No, better utilization of it. And the possibility to destroy OP's. Its getting crowded out there. 
Aww...heck. Dont listen to me, I'm old, grumpy and I've waited 20 mins to pass teh Entering Game for Trinity testserver. I dont make any sense, I can feel it.
Cheers, Lowa
Yep you're right on all accounts imo.
Go take a drive through FIX space... spamming bloody stations to hide in every 2 jumps down there.
Destroying some of these stations would be good.
The only downside to this is the way in which it reinforces the blobs ability to terrorize smaller entities, and what happens to your assets in a station that explodes (simple answer, but sucks for the players)
Maybe just have it all magically teleport to the nearest low sec office of that persons corp, screw the storyline.
A lot of station ransoming would ensue but thats not too bad, right now people take others stations because: A) they want the resident out B) they want the space C) they think pos blobs = pvp
POS's need to go die in a fire but the ping pong game wouldnt be fun vs the triumvirate super blob tbh
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Jarvin Kell
Kingdom of Kador Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:02:00 -
[52]
Originally by: NATMav
There's plenty of space, it's just that half of it is worthless. When you can make more ISK grinding Level 4's in complete safety than you can ratting in 0.0, something is wrong.
This.
If you happen to have 2 accounts, one soloing L4 missions, one looting/salvaging, you can make more than 0.0 ratting on a moderately good day (if you include LP). Unfortunately, sitting in empire for more than a week or so of mission binging isn't something I can bring myself to do.
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III LightBringer
Okkelen Grave Robbers
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:03:00 -
[53]
Taurequis : This is corp and alliance forum. Not sure why you post this here, but, since we are at it....
New regions, that are linked from , well.. someplace in empire, with a 25+AU distance to 'anything' making it impossible to jump in capitals to the new area.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:18:00 -
[54]
I remember being alone in Jita....
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:19:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ajja 17 It's funny how everybody who wants to nerf alliances is in a failed alliance ;)
Not really =P Sig removed for the third time, inappropriate content. Sig Locked. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |

Commander Muffin
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:26:00 -
[56]
My Opinion would be to add more REgions (atleast 2 or maybe 4) that are about the same size as the Drone Regions when they came out. In the effort of logistics with the new implement of the "Caldari Highway" in Empire wouldn't it be nice to have a "Border Town" at the fring of known space right now with the addition of new regions. This would really expand the political influence in the game due to many well ran Alliances know better to take more space than that is able to maintain self sufficently or the heads will have to buy a bottle of Asprin a week.
You might be thinging about the border town if people will camp it and which/what not. Well make the system of the border town like the inside of a POS bubble, you can not lock anyone or use SB's in that system. Also you can give 4-6 gates of of the system so it is un able to be camped permately by one alliance or group of people. Even if so you can always get by with a Covert Ops.
And in retro-spec. you can make these systems if you choose to, not able to sell anything in them because of the amount of players using these systems in 0.0 to get back to empire via the highway. We dont want Jita 2,3,4,and 5 popping up in 0.0
But i am only for the new regions if you are able to get a new system of minerals like that of the drone regions in maybe low end minerals. Maybe 2 of the new 4 would be this new alloy drop just like that of the high end dropping predesesor. And, of course the other 2 new systems are the regular ratting/faction spawning system. Heck if the Dev.'s really even wanted to put some effort into it it could be an off-shoot of a lost faction maybe in the ships that are there from minmatar cousins, Amarrian anceint ancestry, Caldari isolated faction, Radical Gallente Empire.
Anyways these are my thoughts anyhow but im all for mroe space. But, we do need a way to subsidize the Low End mineral market because the sad fact about the chinese farmers that everyone is yelling about are keeping the life blood pumping by mining insane amounts of minerals that we the players who have a RL job and familes don't have time to do. Face it who wants to mine Trit when you can mine Megacyte?
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Droewa
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:31:00 -
[57]
Originally by: umop 3pisdn
Go take a drive through FIX space... spamming bloody stations to hide in every 2 jumps down there.
the reason why stations tend to be so close is to achieve sov 4 ya Muppet.
i think improving the sec value and the quality of ore in 0.0 would help things quite a bit. i have also noticed that the best officer rats tend to spawn more often near NPC stations. IMO this is bad, maybe it would help things out if the best stuff was far far away from empire systems? i dunno. I'm high on turkey. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) |

Wild Rho
Amarr GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:31:00 -
[58]
Originally by: BlackHorizon More space and remove warp to zero entirely.
Agreed. Faster (and somewhat safer) travel has made Eve a much smaller place and allowed groups to control much larger areas (through the ability to deploy heavier assets at greater ranges from their core stations more quickly). Jump capable logistics and jump bridges have contributed to a certain degree but they're somewhat balanced out through the running costs (fuel and investment in destructable assets) for the given benefit.
0.0 really should be made much tougher to live in, at least then it would justify bumping up the value of many more 0.0 systems and encourage a little more spreading out.
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Balbriggan
Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:43:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Droewa
Originally by: umop 3pisdn
Go take a drive through FIX space... spamming bloody stations to hide in every 2 jumps down there.
the reason why stations tend to be so close is to achieve sov 4 ya Muppet.
i think improving the sec value and the quality of ore in 0.0 would help things quite a bit. i have also noticed that the best officer rats tend to spawn more often near NPC stations. IMO this is bad, maybe it would help things out if the best stuff was far far away from empire systems? i dunno. I'm high on turkey.
Actually, the officers spawning near NPC stations makes sense, they are after all officers of the respective factions, so of course they will patrol in thier home space.
I agree that 0.0 is virtually worthless for the most part, and I can indeed earn more isk running lvl 4 missions in empire (The Enemies abound mission set earns upwards of 45 million in tags alone). Not sure that adding more regions is necesaarily the best way of improving low sec space though. For that matter I don't know how to improve it either.
Nice to see Hobbes make a comeback in one of the sigs above. Anyone seen Calvin lately (his mom was kinda sexy.....leaving now)
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Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:46:00 -
[60]
Turning 90% of highsec space into 0.0 would solve a few things. Maybe if CONCORD was forced back to >0.8 due to financial hardship caused by increasing workload from incursions by alliances. Leave the infrastructure in place but make it possible to contest npc soverignty (and thereby affect the normal sentry response in >0.0 space).
But it won't happen ofc. _
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Jungle KungFu
Minmatar Dickens-Cider
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Posted - 2007.11.22 23:58:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Jungle KungFu on 22/11/2007 23:58:35 Most of 0.0 is empty and most of those empty systems are garbage. However turning them into .5 or better (true sec) would only enhance the rabid inflation problem.
I would agree that logistically it is very easy to control 0.0 space and tools like the jump freighter will just make it easier.
Also cloaking ravens are the only thing keeping certain countries economy going.
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Dangerously Cheesey
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.23 00:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Jungle KungFu Edited by: Jungle KungFu on 22/11/2007 23:58:35 Most of 0.0 is empty and most of those empty systems are garbage. However turning them into .5 or better (true sec) would only enhance the rabid inflation problem.
I would agree that logistically it is very easy to control 0.0 space and tools like the jump freighter will just make it easier.
Also cloaking ravens are the only thing keeping certain countries economy going.
Anyone who thinks that jump freighters, as currently implemented, are going to make 0.0 logistics easier than what they are now knows very little about logistics.
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.11.23 00:17:00 -
[63]
Yes to the OP, EVE's universe is much too small now:
- population has grown by a factor of 5+ - WTZ, so travel times are usually much shorter
This is the main reason for blobbing - too many people live close together and alliances are too big. If there was enough space, there would be more and smaller alliances and common alliance warfare would attract fewer people because they'd have to travel further.
About 4-5 x more solar systems would be fine.
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |

Jungle KungFu
Minmatar Dickens-Cider
|
Posted - 2007.11.23 00:32:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Dangerously Cheesey
Originally by: Jungle KungFu Edited by: Jungle KungFu on 22/11/2007 23:58:35 Most of 0.0 is empty and most of those empty systems are garbage. However turning them into .5 or better (true sec) would only enhance the rabid inflation problem.
I would agree that logistically it is very easy to control 0.0 space and tools like the jump freighter will just make it easier.
Also cloaking ravens are the only thing keeping certain countries economy going.
Anyone who thinks that jump freighters, as currently implemented, are going to make 0.0 logistics easier than what they are now knows very little about logistics.
Explain how they will not make it easier.
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Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.23 00:35:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Taurequis Hi,
Just had a thought after seeing the alt post of "POS wars or NO".
My opinion is that back in the day alot of things were made fun because of the isolation we used to have. We now have 40k people in the space we used to fit 5k.
Even with all the POS stuff and their associated wars would eve feel more like the old days if we added another bunch of regions beyond the existing ones?
More empty space, more distace to travel, less blobs?
Does it take that much more processing power in the server clusters to make more regions available?
What does everyone think?
Bigger sandpit makes better corp and alliance level play? Yes or No?
Your opinions welcome.
Thanks,
Taur
I think we need more NPC sov 0.0
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |

Ajja 17
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.23 00:45:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Malcanis
I think we need more NPC sov 0.0
God no I want to own and develop my space, build an empire. Not squat somewhere.
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Tarsyris
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.23 01:04:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Tarsyris on 23/11/2007 01:05:16 Add more regions like Delve. You can build outposts and there are also NPC stations.
As an extra forbid cyno's or Large POS in those regions(alternatively just forbid cynos of any sort and hauling fuel will be so insane that it will do the job itself). Make them profitable. Bam, new gold rush with limited blob lameness.
edit. oh and cut out **** systems. 0.0 probably has twice the number of systems it should have based on the "is this system ever going to be used for anything ever ever ever?" criteria. If the only purpose of system X is to increase travel distance between two places then remove it.
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Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.23 01:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Ajja 17
Originally by: Malcanis
I think we need more NPC sov 0.0
God no I want to own and develop my space, build an empire. Not squat somewhere.
then don't live in npc space duh. Your signature graphic must reflect your ingame persona as per The Forum rules - Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |

Scavok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.23 01:07:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Scavok on 23/11/2007 01:09:48 More space wouldn't change anything. It would just end up with the same guys we see now owning it, especially if it was more valuable. Cyno Jammers mean alliances can hold huge amounts of space with very little risk of being hit at multiple locations, which also means it's pretty much impossible for smaller alliances to take space from larger alliances. It's reduced the game down to something like a civil war battle where both sides just line up in an open field and start shooting each other.
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Talen Reaper
BladeRunners INC
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Posted - 2007.11.23 01:20:00 -
[70]
hell I rember when there were 1200 people on when I would log in ....I don't think we need more space I tend to side with those who want the space made unusable to much of 00 is just crap space ..also I think there should be more npc stations about ..spawn rates should be increased .... would be cool to have a massive npc spawn in the systems that those stations are located..and there need to be way more ways into 00 ....all this gate camping is just lame ya jump in a low sec pipe system and there is a mom & 5 carriers camping the system that is fked up
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Caliwyrm O'Libr
Red Eye .Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.23 01:38:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 23/11/2007 01:09:48 More space wouldn't change anything. It would just end up with the same guys we see now owning it, especially if it was more valuable. Cyno Jammers mean alliances can hold huge amounts of space with very little risk of being hit at multiple locations, which also means it's pretty much impossible for smaller alliances to take space from larger alliances.
QFT.
Most of 0.0 is so empty it isn't funny. It has been my experience that once you get just a jump or two off a main pipe in 0.0 and you can sit for hours without seeing anyone else in local. Jump bridges make it even more desolate between outposts.
I would like to see more smaller alliances claim their stake in 0.0, unfortunately I don't see the major alliances/coalitions just allowing smaller (and therefor weaker) alliances squating their borders. =======
Talk is cheap because supply always outweighs demand.. |

Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2007.11.23 03:02:00 -
[72]
It's funny how the original backstory of EVE was about our own galaxy being stripped bare of resources, eventually leading humanity to discover and use the EVE gate.
When I started playing EVE late in the beta phase I was curious about the vast number of systems CCP intended the game to have. 5000 star systems is quite enough we all thought, and for quite some time it has been.
I dont think adding more systems will solve any of the problems by itself. I think removing the artificial "highways" that interconnect empire AND 0.0 regions would help restore some of the illusion of the vastness of EVE.
Having said that, we DO need more systems. It's quite simple really. As more people play the game, we need more space for them to be in. I am curious how things will evolve with factional warfare. My hope is for some sort of "PvP switch" allowing large numbers of casual players to fight eachother across empire space, but we will have to see about that wont we...
The game design of 0.0 space is in my opinion flawed. It favors a style of gameplay that suits the obsessive gamer types instead of the average. With more than 70% of players in Empire at any given time, it is clear that the majority want and seek something else from the game.
In the beginning, you had to have a good 20 or so pilots to "live in 0.0". Then you had to have 50 to keep the competition down. Then we reached 100 members, and from then on we have seen the numbers increase to a point where running an organisation large enough to take on 0.0 involves so much work that it becomes a job in itself. Hats off to those that contend with the defective corp/alliance interfaces, but I cannot help but wonder if EVE suffers from being too demanding?
The game rewards those with the skills and luck to pull it off, but the numbers tell us that more people simply go "safe" and farm missions in empire. Why is that? have the majority got it wrong, or does living in 0.0 demand so much from the individual that most would simply choose not to join a huge alliance?
I think EVE needs empty space and a lot of it. It is what drives people to create a corp and organize. With no "free" space left, most are forced to join an existing alliance or stay in empire slowly bleeding active players to other corps already large enough to stake a claim in the promised land.
With jump drives, jump clones, inter-region highways and similar features, it has become too easy to move from A to B and thus too easy for a relatively small number of people to lay claim to a large area. I hope that the changes to freighters using jump arrays and the new jump freighter will tip the balance. Forcing people tighter together in 0.0 would leave more room open for others to invade and claim. Having said that, some more "virgin 0.0" space needs a serious consideration, if not now, then some time next year if numbers keep climbing like they do now...
Sorry for the long post... I tried keeping it brief, but as my friends will tell you, that is something I am incapable of 
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fugazii
Deep Space Productions Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.23 03:10:00 -
[73]
Initially it would create a vacuum bringing people there, like the drone regions have done. However the unfortunate part of the drone regions is, and i mean no offense by this, full of people who only own space because there was no one there already claiming it. They fight amongst themselves, but shown time and again that when actual alliances roll in there, they trample the residents.
This will happen to new regions, and in the long run not solve anything. Blobs will always be there, because "winning" is no longer based on pvp, its based on drawn out sieges and overpowering the enemy with numbers, isk, and logistic capabilities.
The only way this game and alliance warfare will ever be made fun and exciting again is if they have servers that can handle the game ccp has created. The game will never go backwards... pos warfare in some form will never be removed so the only way forward is to make pos warfare fun, and the massive fights that follow this type warfare.
Also, ccp needs to let go of thier greed. Isk buying should be illegal, alliances should not be funded by shatteredcrystal.com. GTC's have done so much damage to this game, entire alliances are funded by the RL rich, and this shapes the entirety of the eve map today since isk conquers regions now, not pvp ability. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |

Ajja 17
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.23 03:19:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Ajja 17 on 23/11/2007 03:20:13
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr With more than 70% of players in Empire at any given time, it is clear that the majority want and seek something else from the game.
The majority of 0.0 players have empire alts (for missions/trading). So I wouldn't be surprised if the split is more like 50-50 (of physical players).
edit: also keep in mind a lot of the empire dwellers are noobs, while most of 0.0 is populated by fairly experienced people.
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sakana
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.11.23 03:26:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Cuebick Edited by: Cuebick on 22/11/2007 20:27:20 Imagine having two empires.. the only way to cross the bridge would to travel in 0.0 space. oooh the joy
edit: You could only buy/manifacture certain things in each empire.. would make traffic between empires .. fun? ^^
This is a v nice idea 
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Mini Puce
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.11.23 04:25:00 -
[76]
For the Love of Gods open Jovian space please.
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Relain Linday
Amarr eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.23 05:20:00 -
[77]
Fix the lag FIRST. Then worry about space.
Space is a valid subject, but it's the wrong time to think about it.
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Ed Anger
Weekly World News
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Posted - 2007.11.23 05:23:00 -
[78]
yes, this game needs more Old Spice. /signed
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Trustus
Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.23 05:45:00 -
[79]
What the point in having lots of empty regions?
Dont you have enough space to do your carebear.
/T
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Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
|
Posted - 2007.11.23 05:59:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Ajja 17 Edited by: Ajja 17 on 23/11/2007 03:20:13
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr With more than 70% of players in Empire at any given time, it is clear that the majority want and seek something else from the game.
The majority of 0.0 players have empire alts (for missions/trading). So I wouldn't be surprised if the split is more like 50-50 (of physical players).
edit: also keep in mind a lot of the empire dwellers are noobs, while most of 0.0 is populated by fairly experienced people.
Normally I dont dignify post from Turdswarm members with an answer, but just to disprove your illegitimate ideas on player distribution I feel I have to *click* anyway.
First off, I dont have the actual distribution totals, only CCP database admins would have access to that, but I am fairly certain the 70-30 split of players(characters) in space is a more fair representation of actual activity.
That is however, besides the topic, and your asumptions serve little purpose but to detract from the issue - does EVE need more space?
Claiming most empire dwellers are "noobs" is incomprehensively off topic. Your statement reveals an arrogance all to familiar with your peers in the swarm.
Irrespective of character age, skillpoints and physical attachment, an eve character will require space. Given the mathematical truth of skillpoints, a new player training ONE character would reach average skillpoints in about 8 months
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG It takes about a month to train one million skill points so it is fair to say that anyone who has more than five million skill points is at least not a ônewbieö anymore.
AND
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG The average number of skill points for all races is 8.7 million.
(source: quarterly economic newsletter, 3rd quarter 2007)
In order to determine the need for extra space, one would have to estimate the demand. First you would need to total number of potentially active accounts:
Originally by: CCP Dr.EyjoG Today there are more than 195,000 accounts, which represents 433,000 characters, or 2.2 characters per account. It is estimated that the population of EVE will have reached 200,000 by mid-Q4 2007 and will be well into 210,000 by Q1 2008. In addition to these accounts, there are another 45,000 trial accounts that could potentially become part of the society in the near future.
So with 200.000 accounts and 5000 systems we would have 40 accounts per system. With 2.2 characters per accounts, we would have 88 characters per system.
The question is: With a static number of systems and an increasing number of clients/characters/players, will we ever reach a point where we need more room?
In addition, examining the problem in details opens up forther questions, like: Has EVE lost some of it's charm when becoming more crowded? What kind of space if any, should be added? (0.0/low sec/high sec)
So in conclusion to your post Ajja 17, maybe the majority of players have alts, but even if they do, the fact they'd rather stay in empire and do missions as you claim, points to an even larger issue with the playability of 0.0 space. I think your wrong, but with no access to accurate data I can only go by gut feeling, and my gut says your a noob that dont know your ass from your elbow.
Secondly, your claim that the majority of players in empire are "noobs" lacks proof. With no frame of referance to define noob, your post is as pointless as any other goonspam.
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Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2007.11.23 06:10:00 -
[81]
Now on the subject of defining a noob... The problem with defining "noob" is that most clueless people (like Ajja 17 and his alliance) define noob from their own perspective. To most players, the term "noob" is used in a derogatory manner, and usually in a context designed to provoke an emotional response. To that end, you and 99% of the current players are all noobs compared to me. In reality though, there are things about EVE I have yet to experience, so compared to someone else, I would be a noob.
Dr.EyjoG provides a definition of an everage player by determining average skillpoints. While this method does not take into account that many accounts have alts with less than a million skillpoins on them, it is the best we have to work with.
Now taking the numbers in my post above, we can say with mathematical certainty that the "space issue" will grow. Eventually CCP would have to add space to accomodate the players, and the question remains:
Have we reached that point yet or not?
I think we have. Some people would agree, some would not, but the distribution of players and the nature of their experience is only part of the equation.
The problem is one of game design. Fact is, 70% of all players reside in empire. Looking at "players in space", reweals a preferance towards being "safe" that begs the question "why?"
Being that I started playing late beta and when the game came out, I have a rare perspective to offer. My feeling is that we are reaching or have reached a point where the game needs more room. If that room comes in the form of moving mining into the deadspace authering system, or if it comes through new systems remains to be seen, but more players = less space.
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Schani Kratnorr
Internal Revenue Service
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Posted - 2007.11.23 06:15:00 -
[82]
To those left wondering, "what does this guy have against goonswarm", I can only say that I think the game would be better off without their personalities and methodology.
The flood of so-called ****posting that will follow my posts will frame my point of view. Their absense will only cement their inability to do anything beyond simply being many and posting crappola all day long.
I have managed to find a way to block posters from Goonswarm, so thankfully I will avoid having to read through it to find the posts that matter - all the others...
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TheBadMan
Caldari GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.23 06:37:00 -
[83]
sometimes when im in a system all alone. i touch myself.
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arghy steelwill
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.23 06:53:00 -
[84]
Hahaha i love bitter players, ask the average empire dweller if they have ever ratted in low sec and how often they do. You'll find that most dont because they are to afraid to compete or just are ignorant of the game in general. They have no incentive to go into 0.0 and no desire to leave the safety of empire, turning half of empire into NPC 0.0 bordering free 0.0 would be a good idea. It would give them a training ground for proper 0.0 action, boost the rewards of liveing in lawless space and encourage more of them to actually take part in the fighting.
I went from empire dweller to experienced 0.0 player- thats from total ignorance about the game to knowing as much as the 40-50m sp players when i only had 2-5m sps. How many empire players actually know about friggin resists and stuff? they dont get a taste of pvp in empire so they miss a huge part of the game and turn into mentally challenged players in 0.0 where pvp is king. Turn the empires in NPC 0.0 space already make every outlying empire system a new syndicate, add better agents better moons and better rats but always ensure lawless 0.0 is way better so they dont just stay in the nest of ignorance.
 Shot at 2007-07-19
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |

olzi
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.23 06:58:00 -
[85]
Maybe if most of the 0.0 systems weren't complete crap, big alliances wouldn't need to conquer several regions and then only use a small percentage of it. We don't need some new arbitrary rules or more systems, just make 0.0 profitable enough that people can get by with less.
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Rathkan
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.23 07:44:00 -
[86]
Given that ~70% of players are in Empire (can we agree on >50% at least) maybe it's worth adding more hisec. I couldn't care less either way though, I don't go to Empire much anymore.
I'd agree increasing the value of a majority of the 0.0 systems may be a better alternative to just adding more systems. That'd reduce the number of empty systems at least.
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ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.23 07:50:00 -
[87]
I wish they would add a few more npc controlled 0,0 regions tbh
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Stinkywrix
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.23 08:45:00 -
[88]
We don't need more space, what we need is better space. Most of 0.0 is crap. I can go to any system off the beaten path in Tenerifis or Feythabolis, and it's probably not going to be much more then -0.1 truesec. What we need to do is boost up truesec in 0.0 so instead of alliances living in 1/5 of it, they live in 3/5 or 4/5s. Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo |

Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.23 09:07:00 -
[89]
there is only 9% of players in 0.0, and even if the number of player in eve is constantly growing, i saw in an interview that ccp is not planing to bring new regions, because some new places will be introduced in game , like with ambulation, mini games, games inside the game (hollow asteroid with dogfight fps like i saw), planetary interaction etc etc. All theses ppl that will be in theses new places, will not be in "undocked" then space is and will be enought
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OwnedBy Me
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Posted - 2007.11.23 09:20:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr STUFFFFFFFFFFF and alot of it.
Dude, very nice quoting and stuff but try and think also..
The 200.000 accounts may have 2.2 char in avarage but that doesnt mean that people play with the 2.2 chars. They have 1 char thats is skilled the rest are just sitting in empire.. And some accounts are purely alts for empire so thats a full 2.2 that goes there aswell.. So its fairly sure to assume that the spilt isnt 30/70 but more even though no one for sure can they the number..
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.11.23 09:37:00 -
[91]
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Remove the smuggler gates and 0.0 highways in general and it'll feel large enough.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |

Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.11.23 10:34:00 -
[92]
Hi again,
And a big thanks to everyone who has posted in this discussion so far.
Bring back up a few points i've seen so far....
Originally by: Niedar Allow the destruction of outposts and all will be good ;0
Lo Niedar, surely under the current system this would just lead to more intense POS warfare as people know they have more to loose? Maybe it would be better to increase the price of repairing damaged station services. Leading to more incentive to defend them.
Originally by: Kvarium Ki If you open more space people allready in 0.0 aren't going to move there. 0.0 will not get less crowded, empire will.
I'm more inclined to believe the ratio's are balanced in a risk/reward system at any moment.
Originally by: sakana I dunno, atm there is a LOT of empty space. 80% of systems in 0.0 are empty. Under 10% of eve players live in 0.0.
I don't think we lack space, just the will to take it.
I think part of the point i was getting across was that fact some 0.0 is ****ty and some was quality was excellent for exploring back in the old days. People didnt just know which specific systems were best for ratting or mining and use them. They had to explore and chart stuff to find the good bits, which made the empty space a bit more interesting, with more character.
With loads of new regions that would open up again, rather then have 5 years of mapping and exploring taking away all the discovery.
Maybe taking that point a bit further the best npc and mining systems should degrade over time and heavy use with another underused system in the region getting better accordingly, to shake things up a bit?
Originally by: Raid space is small because the game chrinks it for us.
1. Local Chat: Remove local chat and all of a sudden space feels very cold and empty. 2. Map Info: You shouldnt be able to find out whats in a solarsystem without actually visiting it. That includes who has Sov, how many people are there, what structures exist there. 3. Jump Drives: Logistics are too easy with jump drives/bridges. I doubt this will change however...
Space doesnt need to get bigger... we just need to do more of the exploring ourselves.
Lo Raid, tbh i've been against local chat for a while. But yeah your three points would be a bang on way of making things seems bigger without making more space.
Originally by: III LightBringer Taurequis : This is corp and alliance forum. Not sure why you post this here, but, since we are at it....
New regions, that are linked from , well.. someplace in empire, with a 25+AU distance to 'anything' making it impossible to jump in capitals to the new area.
Hi Lightbringer, I thought someone might ask that, I posted this here as I thought this is where most of the 0.0 junkies hide out and it relates to them and their alliances directly.
Plus I wanted to post a nice discussion to brighten up this end of the forums from the usual spam.
And an't we all doing well. 4 pages and no sign of the mods really. 
Nice idea on the 25+ Au distance region for no caps, but won't it just mean you have invincible pos'es?
Originally by: Malcanis
I think we need more NPC sov 0.0
As a man who cut my teeth in 0.0 in Stain i'd say i'd agree with you. The joy of non-pos war pvp and the ability for noobs to make their life out there is great. But for a large alliance in the area they can be a pain in the butt.
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr ...Lots of interesting points....
Thanks for taking the time to post your opinions in the structured way you have. Pls do however try and avoid aggravating the goonswarm repliers. I am trying to keep this discussion unlocked. 
Thanks again for all the replies all, keep it up.
Best Regards,
Taurequis
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Leroy Payne
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Posted - 2007.11.23 10:40:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Leroy Payne on 23/11/2007 10:41:00
Originally by: Secondus Dawkins A little more deep space would be interesting, especially if it wasn't conquerable. Imagine a few distant 0.0 regions, far away, but without chokepoints so that it would be hard for people to cut off access. Then, disable POSs for whatever reason (give the rats Dread gangs, put up rat POSs, drastically increase fuel use for POSs in remote regions so that it's just not worth it, whatever). This way it will be hard for anyone to actually claim and hold the space. Now the Rorqual, Jump Freighter, jump-bridging BS and MoM really come into their own. A small corp can jump deeply into un-owned space, set up a mobile mining/ratting op and have it really feel like the wild west. Any space you can hold is yours, but just as long as you're there. It would add an entirely new dimension to the game. Eve is all about the freedom to do different things, well this would definitely be different. It also wouldn't be very blob friendly if it was many conventional jumps away. Who wants to sign up for a 2-3 hr op when you don't know if you'll see anyone the whole time.
BTW, this is absolutley the wrong forum for this discussion
Agree, there are many pilots in this game for whom POS warfare is awful and not like a game at all. Currently these people are confined to a few comparatively-crowded npc sov regions, which can still be controlled tactically if not strategically by the spamming of loads of POS all over the place.
IMHO, POS warfare will be the death of this game if you force it upon everyone who wants to pvp, including those who actually want a little small gang, high skill fast paced fun without the need for months of logistics, fleets of cap ships, and gangs of 200.
I love the idea of space you have to hold By Actually Being there and standing your ground, fighting real fights, instead of hiding in a pos and only showing up in giant blobs when you have 5 days notice as the stront timer ticks down!
Yeah that would be nice....
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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.11.23 10:48:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Taurequis on 23/11/2007 10:48:27
Originally by: Leroy Payne Edited by: Leroy Payne on 23/11/2007 10:41:00
Agree, there are many pilots in this game for whom POS warfare is awful and not like a game at all. Currently these people are confined to a few comparatively-crowded npc sov regions, which can still be controlled tactically if not strategically by the spamming of loads of POS all over the place.
IMHO, POS warfare will be the death of this game if you force it upon everyone who wants to pvp, including those who actually want a little small gang, high skill fast paced fun without the need for months of logistics, fleets of cap ships, and gangs of 200.
I love the idea of space you have to hold By Actually Being there and standing your ground, fighting real fights, instead of hiding in a pos and only showing up in giant blobs when you have 5 days notice as the stront timer ticks down!
Yeah that would be nice....
Nice point, but remember to turn your corp or alliance ticker on or the mods will delete it.

Thanks,
Taur
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.23 10:48:00 -
[95]
No, we don't need more space, we do need more useful space though. Personally I would redesign most of the 0.0 regions. I would design them around having a number of pipes running through regions 2-4 entrances per region, but then making constellations branch off from the pipes with only 1 entrance and have more valuable systems there.
That way you make it less easy to close off an entire region with just 1 gatecamp, but make it possible for defenders to protect their own constellation with just 1 bottleneck. Every region could have then 4-5 pockets of 1 constellation each, and sustain more people in a viable way, without making it easy to prevent travel through the constellation at all.
But other changes are also needed IMO. Truesec -0.0 to -0.2 is really worthless. I would think pipes need to be between -0.4 and -0.6, then the constellations could be either -0.6 to -0.8 and each region have 1 or 2 constellations with a number of -0.8 to -1.0 systems.
Oh, and remove level 4 agents from highsec. Making isk in Empire is too easy.
------------------------------------------------
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Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.23 10:49:00 -
[96]
I personally believe that 0.0 is full and needs to be expanded. For the reason why, I go with the following:
If you'll stick with me for a moment on biology, there's a concept known as the carrying capacity of an environment, which is how much of a population a given environment can support. 0.0 has effectively reached its carrying capacity, where we define carrying capacity as the amount of ISK-generating activities (the backbone of EVE) available in an area that are superior to what's available in high-sec Empire space. This is for a few reasons:
0) There are 4 real ways to make ISK in 0.0: Moon mining, ratting, exploration, and ore mining. Since all of the good moons are already claimed in 0.0, we're really down to 3 ways.
1) Much of 0.0 has a carrying capacity of 0, that is that there's nothing you can do in these systems that is more profitable than living in high-sec (and this is before costs of operating in 0.0). In these systems ratting is worse than L4 missions, mining is worse than high-sec mining, and the sec status returns exploration sites too poor compared to L4 missions again.
2) That leaves us with the good 0.0 systems. On any given week, the average system can support 1 concurrent ratter and a handful of hardcore miners mining ABC ore. Exploration supports less than 1 user per system since you have to go chase sites and there's not 1 good site per system. Once we've removed the bad 0.0 systems, we're looking at perhaps 1k-1.5k of these systems.
3) Should 0.0 exceed carrying capacity (more than 1 concurrent ratter, too many miners exhausting the ore, etc), it becomes less profitable to live in 0.0 than to live in high-sec.
4) Empire has additional ways to make money; besides trade routes the key among these is missions. There is an infinite supply of missions, each character assigned their own private deadspace to work in. This results in the best case scenario (everyone running missions in high-sec) of every Empire system having an infinite carrying capacity.
5) Because Empire has missions and 0.0 does not, this creates a massive imbalance between the two that allows Empire to carry many people, and 0.0 to carry few.
My point here is that 0.0 is full; aside from issues of new tenants moving in after wars, every system and every region is at carrying capacity for ratting and mining. CCP either needs to add missions to 0.0 (which would reduce much of the strain on other 0.0 ISK-generating activities) or add more 0.0 space. Either way, there needs to be more ISK-generating activities in 0.0 if more people are to be supported. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map |

Taurequis
Waylander 01
|
Posted - 2007.11.23 10:53:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Verite Rendition I personally believe that 0.0 is full and needs to be expanded. For the reason why, I go with the following:
If you'll stick with me for a moment on biology, there's a concept known as the carrying capacity of an environment, which is how much of a population a given environment can support. 0.0 has effectively reached its carrying capacity, where we define carrying capacity as the amount of ISK-generating activities (the backbone of EVE) available in an area that are superior to what's available in high-sec Empire space. This is for a few reasons:
0) There are 4 real ways to make ISK in 0.0: Moon mining, ratting, exploration, and ore mining. Since all of the good moons are already claimed in 0.0, we're really down to 3 ways.
1) Much of 0.0 has a carrying capacity of 0, that is that there's nothing you can do in these systems that is more profitable than living in high-sec (and this is before costs of operating in 0.0). In these systems ratting is worse than L4 missions, mining is worse than high-sec mining, and the sec status returns exploration sites too poor compared to L4 missions again.
2) That leaves us with the good 0.0 systems. On any given week, the average system can support 1 concurrent ratter and a handful of hardcore miners mining ABC ore. Exploration supports less than 1 user per system since you have to go chase sites and there's not 1 good site per system. Once we've removed the bad 0.0 systems, we're looking at perhaps 1k-1.5k of these systems.
3) Should 0.0 exceed carrying capacity (more than 1 concurrent ratter, too many miners exhausting the ore, etc), it becomes less profitable to live in 0.0 than to live in high-sec.
4) Empire has additional ways to make money; besides trade routes the key among these is missions. There is an infinite supply of missions, each character assigned their own private deadspace to work in. This results in the best case scenario (everyone running missions in high-sec) of every Empire system having an infinite carrying capacity.
5) Because Empire has missions and 0.0 does not, this creates a massive imbalance between the two that allows Empire to carry many people, and 0.0 to carry few.
My point here is that 0.0 is full; aside from issues of new tenants moving in after wars, every system and every region is at carrying capacity for ratting and mining. CCP either needs to add missions to 0.0 (which would reduce much of the strain on other 0.0 ISK-generating activities) or add more 0.0 space. Either way, there needs to be more ISK-generating activities in 0.0 if more people are to be supported.
stunned by how well you put that. i'm convinced i'm right again.
Thanks!
Taur
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AeKi
Dragonian Freelancers KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.23 13:49:00 -
[98]
Tbh more space i dont think would be bad as long as it doesnt effect server in bad way. I totally agree with all who have said that most of 0.0 is crap why does sec rateing have to stay same if sec rateing change radomly then ppl would have to spread out and not just build outposts in the best system and leave the crappy ones for well nothing. Also i agree with what ppl have said about posses they suck its the main reason i dont live in 0.0 and have not even the slightest feeling of wanting to go back not that i can think of anyway of making posses better but hey i guess i dont get payed to think of how to make it better :)
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:13:00 -
[99]
I always thought the truesec should be affected by activity in the system. An over-farmed system slowly gains security, becoming less valuable, while unused systems slowly go lower and become more valuable. It would ecourage players to spread out more instead of fighting over a few good systems per region and hanging around the stations all the time. It works pretty well with mining...if you strip mine a system, you have to move on to another sytstem, or wait for the roids to regen.
Farham: "Remember, sometimes evolution ends in extinction." |

Ajja 17
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:38:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr To those left wondering, "what does this guy have against goonswarm", I can only say that I think the game would be better off without their personalities and methodology.
The flood of so-called ****posting that will follow my posts will frame my point of view. Their absense will only cement their inability to do anything beyond simply being many and posting crappola all day long.
I have managed to find a way to block posters from Goonswarm, so thankfully I will avoid having to read through it to find the posts that matter - all the others...
Why won't you love me     ?
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munchy
Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:51:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Plutoinum Waiting for better times so to speak that may come or not. 
gotta quote that, truest thing ive ever heard on the forums, and i think alot of people are in the same boat.
---
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Xeron Silverblade
Esthar Industries Tres Viri
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:53:00 -
[102]
Originally by: NATMav I always thought the truesec should be affected by activity in the system. An over-farmed system slowly gains security, becoming less valuable, while unused systems slowly go lower and become more valuable. It would ecourage players to spread out more instead of fighting over a few good systems per region and hanging around the stations all the time. It works pretty well with mining...if you strip mine a system, you have to move on to another sytstem, or wait for the roids to regen.
this.
would be reasonable as well.. if a pirate faction faces to many deaths-by-players they would normally withdraw from the area (less valuable spawns - they would just scout the system with less expensive craft).
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Xeron Silverblade
Esthar Industries Tres Viri
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Posted - 2007.11.23 14:57:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Verite Rendition I personally believe that 0.0 is full and needs to be expanded. For the reason why, I go with the following:
If you'll stick with me for a moment on biology, there's a concept known as the carrying capacity of an environment, which is how much of a population a given environment can support. 0.0 has effectively reached its carrying capacity, where we define carrying capacity as the amount of ISK-generating activities (the backbone of EVE) available in an area that are superior to what's available in high-sec Empire space. This is for a few reasons:
0) There are 4 real ways to make ISK in 0.0: Moon mining, ratting, exploration, and ore mining. Since all of the good moons are already claimed in 0.0, we're really down to 3 ways.
1) Much of 0.0 has a carrying capacity of 0, that is that there's nothing you can do in these systems that is more profitable than living in high-sec (and this is before costs of operating in 0.0). In these systems ratting is worse than L4 missions, mining is worse than high-sec mining, and the sec status returns exploration sites too poor compared to L4 missions again.
2) That leaves us with the good 0.0 systems. On any given week, the average system can support 1 concurrent ratter and a handful of hardcore miners mining ABC ore. Exploration supports less than 1 user per system since you have to go chase sites and there's not 1 good site per system. Once we've removed the bad 0.0 systems, we're looking at perhaps 1k-1.5k of these systems.
3) Should 0.0 exceed carrying capacity (more than 1 concurrent ratter, too many miners exhausting the ore, etc), it becomes less profitable to live in 0.0 than to live in high-sec.
4) Empire has additional ways to make money; besides trade routes the key among these is missions. There is an infinite supply of missions, each character assigned their own private deadspace to work in. This results in the best case scenario (everyone running missions in high-sec) of every Empire system having an infinite carrying capacity.
5) Because Empire has missions and 0.0 does not, this creates a massive imbalance between the two that allows Empire to carry many people, and 0.0 to carry few.
My point here is that 0.0 is full; aside from issues of new tenants moving in after wars, every system and every region is at carrying capacity for ratting and mining. CCP either needs to add missions to 0.0 (which would reduce much of the strain on other 0.0 ISK-generating activities) or add more 0.0 space. Either way, there needs to be more ISK-generating activities in 0.0 if more people are to be supported.
i can fully understand this logic attempt to explain things. he's god-damned-right with that.. but it also shows a different approach: extend empire but remote the "infinite carrying capacity" of empire systems by (for example) an agent only giving out a limited number of missions (to different people) at the same time. because missions are imho the deciding factor for that capacity
however: lots of good ideas in this thread! keep it coming 
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Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2007.11.23 15:08:00 -
[104]
Yes would be nice to have more space.. also we need allot of more gates who lead to 0.0 there would be allot of more people in 0.0 if the risk of flying in to a big blob would be less
->My Vids<- |

Tyr Zewa
Caldari MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
|
Posted - 2007.11.23 15:16:00 -
[105]
Nice thread Taur :)
I kinda do agree with the people that say the bad 0.0 needs to be boosted. Adding more Pirate faction agents, giving them R&D, adding the odd station of theirs outside of Stain/Curse/Fountain/Delve/Venal would help i guess.
Maybe add the odd Empire faction station in 0.0.
Boost moons, ores, npc spawns in general in 0.0.
Basically, make it so that more than 1 pvp'er per system can make his money for pvp. Without him just relogging his empire alt to relax and farm isk in safety.
I am not sure if more space would really help, but boosting the avg value of 0.0 surely would.
About the people who want WTZ, concord and sentries and what not removed. Forget it, travelling without instas was mindnumbingly boring, and the people you think you could have pvp with just don't want pvp. Accept that and leave them alone in empire, simply make the life for those of us who like 0.0 more fun.
To sum it up in one sentence: Boost the AVERAGE 0.0 so a system can support 10 or more people, and not just one.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora
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Posted - 2007.11.23 15:55:00 -
[106]
Quote: *wall of text*
There's a lot of empty(ish) 0.0 and npc 0.0 (which is more like 0.0 equivalent to low sec imho). However small/medium size alliances have hard time moving there because most of it is claimed by few huge power blocks and POS warfare as it is makes it difficult to get foothold anywhere unless you can assemble fleet of certain amount of ships to blob. POS "warfare" makes it possible to control pretty large area if you can just get together big fleet and sweep smaller obstacles away.
Practically it means you have to either get tons of "blues" before claiming some place or rent some space from big alliance. Of course making alliances with other people is natural way to do stuff, but on the other hand the one might ask if it really encourages diversity and stuff.
I don't really know how to make it better but I have to say current pos war stuff is very expensive and exhausting for smaller alliances. And even if you would claim a place in middle of nowhere big alliance can just send fleet there from other side of Eve since no one can really touch their pos's while they're gone to pew pew yas.
This said I don't think more space would solve much.

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Janis Praag
Caldari Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.11.23 16:20:00 -
[107]
To make 0.0 better:
1. add more gates to it (less annoying gate camps by pirates that jump into empire at any resistance)
2. Stronger servers (i hope there plans at evefest make this happen)
3. more good systems (better ores, rats and more true sec systems)
4. maybe npc agents in 0.0 space near there respective factions (for example a caldari navy agent in guristas space) giving out high reward missions
5. maybe make pos's more expensive to run
6. better rats in systems that haven't got stations
7. limit the info on the system until you get there!
these are just a few ideas
i think if planet sov was ever added to this game it might reduce the need for pos's therefore reduce pos spam. but i think ccp has no intention of adding planetary warfare for the near future.
Caldari Loyalist |

Volir
Deep Space HVAC
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Posted - 2007.11.23 20:32:00 -
[108]
I'm not reading this whole thread. Domeone give cliffnotes plz, tia.
There are two improvements I would like to see to 0.0. 1. An improvement to the encounter/cosmic anomaly system. This rewards controlling large stretches of space that would otherwise be worthless. There is a lot of nullsec that has poor security status, compared with other systems that are nearby.
2. Constellations where no stations or POS could be built.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.23 20:44:00 -
[109]
Being a long in the tooth guppy in the deep water of 0.0, my perspective is that there's enough space, but there's VERY little incentive for the territorial alliances to allow non-members either in or through their space.
I understand the point, what's really in it for them? They get the occassional hit of money from me when I dock in their system stations, which is nice, but a drop in the proverbial bucket compared to my real income, even in what's otherwise considered a "crap" region.
If there were ways of making non-alliance pilots worth having around, via some kind of tax system, where the process of us making money benefits the sovreign alliance in the area, might soften at least some of their views. Taxes could come on percentages of bounties from NPC kills, percentages of resources claimed through reprocessing and refining, something that makes income earned in their space by persons welcome to fly there benefit the ones who actually put their ships on the line to hold territory.
Admittedly, this is not a total solution, as there will always be alliances so stuck on themselves that they view territory claimed as theirs exclusively, but for those willing to open the borders, its a chance to expand their economy in ways that relieve them of some of the logistical gruntwork of maintaining their empire. Its an optionfor people to explore.
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Kirex
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.23 20:51:00 -
[110]
0.0 is pretty empty, it's just a vast majority of the systems are crap. I think the true sec of 0.0 needs to be played around with, imo.
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Hulkon
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Posted - 2007.11.24 07:56:00 -
[111]
I agree.
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Bonny Lou
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Posted - 2007.11.24 11:26:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Bonny Lou on 24/11/2007 11:28:12
Originally by: NATMav
Originally by: Howling Jinn theres too much crappy 0.0 deep regions like cache, paragon soul, period basis with tons of ****ty true security. which means everyone wants that same constellation, and nobody wants the rest of the region. those regions are just an example.
maybe im naive, but i thought regions which was +30 jumps from empire would have tons of nice true sec.
This.
There's plenty of space, it's just that half of it is worthless. When you can make more ISK grinding Level 4's in complete safety than you can ratting in 0.0, something is wrong.
Thats the true problem... Its sad you have to make money with lvl4 agents cause your profitable 0.0 Systems are overcrowded and the other 90% is just so bad that grinding lvl4 is better. Risk vs. Reward is totally screwed for lowsec & most of 0.0 in comparsion with empire mission-running.
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Captain Rickdick
BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2007.11.24 15:43:00 -
[113]
no
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Edison Frisk
Minmatar Black Lotus Heavy Industries Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.11.24 18:40:00 -
[114]
0.0 on the whole is empty, imo alliances control much more space than they could possibly need.
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Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.24 22:16:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Verite Rendition I personally believe that 0.0 is full and needs to be expanded. For the reason why, I go with the following:
If you'll stick with me for a moment on biology, there's a concept known as the carrying capacity of an environment, which is how much of a population a given environment can support. 0.0 has effectively reached its carrying capacity, where we define carrying capacity as the amount of ISK-generating activities (the backbone of EVE) available in an area that are superior to what's available in high-sec Empire space. This is for a few reasons:
0) There are 4 real ways to make ISK in 0.0: Moon mining, ratting, exploration, and ore mining. Since all of the good moons are already claimed in 0.0, we're really down to 3 ways.
1) Much of 0.0 has a carrying capacity of 0, that is that there's nothing you can do in these systems that is more profitable than living in high-sec (and this is before costs of operating in 0.0). In these systems ratting is worse than L4 missions, mining is worse than high-sec mining, and the sec status returns exploration sites too poor compared to L4 missions again.
2) That leaves us with the good 0.0 systems. On any given week, the average system can support 1 concurrent ratter and a handful of hardcore miners mining ABC ore. Exploration supports less than 1 user per system since you have to go chase sites and there's not 1 good site per system. Once we've removed the bad 0.0 systems, we're looking at perhaps 1k-1.5k of these systems.
3) Should 0.0 exceed carrying capacity (more than 1 concurrent ratter, too many miners exhausting the ore, etc), it becomes less profitable to live in 0.0 than to live in high-sec.
4) Empire has additional ways to make money; besides trade routes the key among these is missions. There is an infinite supply of missions, each character assigned their own private deadspace to work in. This results in the best case scenario (everyone running missions in high-sec) of every Empire system having an infinite carrying capacity.
5) Because Empire has missions and 0.0 does not, this creates a massive imbalance between the two that allows Empire to carry many people, and 0.0 to carry few.
My point here is that 0.0 is full; aside from issues of new tenants moving in after wars, every system and every region is at carrying capacity for ratting and mining. CCP either needs to add missions to 0.0 (which would reduce much of the strain on other 0.0 ISK-generating activities) or add more 0.0 space. Either way, there needs to be more ISK-generating activities in 0.0 if more people are to be supported.
Excellent post, which supports what I said in another thread. Exploration needs to produce a LOT more sites roughly equivalent to a level 4 mission in regard to total reward and ISK/hr. Like 10-20x as many.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |

General StarScream
THE DECEPTIC0NS
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Posted - 2007.11.25 15:21:00 -
[116]
JUst go take the space bob has, they cant defend anymore.
alot of space is ready to be taken.
IT HAS BEGON; THE FALL OF BOB Sig Removed. Dont use inappropriate language in sigs -Kaemonn |

Thargor II
Amarr Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.25 16:46:00 -
[117]
Hey I remember the bad old days when one could log in to less than 1k people.
First some education for some of you obviously young players. Warp to 0 is nothing new they just implemented that to make the game fair for the new players. We used to just maintain bookmarks that were to objects 17k past the gate. So, getting rid of warp to 0 would be of no importance as you can always get around that.
I agree that 0.0 is still pretty empty and that has more to do with 2 things. One is blob warfare the other is crappy true sec of most systems in 0.0. The discussion on what to do about those should be in another forum but 0.0 isn't to crowded just under developed and there are no tactics just zerg style warfare.
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.25 16:52:00 -
[118]
I always liked the idea of having the 4 empires seperated by low sec and 0.0 being on the outskirts like it is now. No empire high ways between empires and would probably help encourage more than 1 trading hub (Jita)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo |

Riho
Northen Breeze
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:02:00 -
[119]
Originally by: fire 59 I always liked the idea of having the 4 empires seperated by low sec and 0.0 being on the outskirts like it is now. No empire high ways between empires and would probably help encourage more than 1 trading hub (Jita)
when i started playing and had learnt abit about the empires ands tuff... i thought they where all seperated whit low sec and 0.0, it felt logical but it turned out the other way around :(
id like that
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General StarScream
THE DECEPTIC0NS
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:41:00 -
[120]
Originally by: fire 59 I always liked the idea of having the 4 empires seperated by low sec and 0.0 being on the outskirts like it is now. No empire high ways between empires and would probably help encourage more than 1 trading hub (Jita)
ye i agree with this, would make it alot more fun Sig Removed. Dont use inappropriate language in sigs -Kaemonn |

NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.25 17:49:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Thargor II We used to just maintain bookmarks that were to objects 17k past the gate.
I bet you died alot. 
Farham: "Remember, sometimes evolution ends in extinction." |

Olli Hokkanen
Full Life Alternative
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Posted - 2007.11.25 18:54:00 -
[122]
more space = more isk farmers, no thx
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Raid
Caldari Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.11.25 19:12:00 -
[123]
Originally by: NATMav
Originally by: Thargor II We used to just maintain bookmarks that were to objects 17k past the gate.
I bet you died alot. 
Gates are larger than you think. 17km past the gate will still drop you at 0 on top of it.
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.26 00:33:00 -
[124]
Originally by: fire 59 I always liked the idea of having the 4 empires seperated by low sec and 0.0 being on the outskirts like it is now. No empire high ways between empires and would probably help encourage more than 1 trading hub (Jita)
That would also allow pirates to actually gain access to their eve content (ie. other players). It'd make for more action than there is currently in empire space.
The analysis further up raises some good points with the wall of text.
More exploration sites and anomolies would increase the carrying capactity of the space but would also devalue it. The more you increase the value of space the less people that will be willing to fight for it.
Fighting for better space isn't one of the things accounted for in biology as it assumes that a particular species is not capable of forming an army to push out or kill off other populations.
Though overall ratting in 0.0 is pretty bad for revenue compared with high sec mission running.
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |

Dipluz
NailorTech Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.26 01:43:00 -
[125]
I would want warp to 15km back, to make solar systems more personal again, so u see more people living around, like in the old days :). but hey cant do that beacuse everyone would start bookmarking again, but then again, I would add more solar systems, eve aint getting more less populated guys, eve is getting more popular and with it comes more residents.
I guess that ccp is so stubborn that they wont add either new server or new regions, and then I dont mean some few regions, I would like to se at least 10-15 new regions.
make something huge, and new =), eve has a tendency to like that. Eve is getting seriously over populated and its seriously getting crap, beacuse u got the big alliances taking all the places to make money, and that sucks. so the rest of the guys is getting scraps.
call it isk farming, but its reality.
and whith it comes people start leaving if eve isnt adding more space to travel in.
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.26 02:13:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Dipluz call it isk farming, but its reality.
and whith it comes people start leaving if eve isnt adding more space to travel in.
People need to make isk in eve to pvp that's the reality.
I don't think adding more space is the solution as most of the space is under utilised because of either the geography, logistics or poor rewards. A good example of this is Pure Blind which is one of the most useless 0.0 regions in the game besides Geminate. In general it's the rubbish space that new 0.0 alliances tend to take to avoid very heavy combat.
A change in the eve geography would revitalise the game.
59's suggestion is one of many good ways to fix some of the game map. The balancing team really need to look at the map.
* (stealing the 59 suggestion) separate each of the four main high sec factions by low sec space. * Separate all 0.0 with tracts of low sec space so there's none of this instant 0.0 access. The pipe from Maut to RQH is an example of a good pipe despite Pure Blind sucking. * 0.0 should be more rewarding thus pulling more people through low sec to provide content for pirate turrets to shoot. * 0.0 logistics have reduced the size of space and jump bridges have drastically reduced traffic around choke points. Perhaps a band of NPC 0.0 is needed to separate low sec from player controlled 0.0.
All this could be done with the existing systems but would need a significant amount of work restructuring the map to make things more exciting.
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |

Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.26 02:17:00 -
[127]
Hehe just read the comments about taxing people in your sov space. That'd be great charge ratters 5% tax to use your space and have the ability to charge 100% tax to people in npc corps ratting in your space.
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |

Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.26 02:34:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Devian 666 Though overall ratting in 0.0 is pretty bad for revenue compared with high sec mission running.
Compared to an L4 mission runner, yeah, its bad. Compared to L3, its just above parity. However, not all of us have the uberkit up Ravens at our disposal.
Plus its 0.0, so there's a prestige element that even if you suck horribly at PvP, you're still out in the game facing the risks. Lets face it, right now I'm not much more than filler space on Burn Eden's kill board, but its better than pure carebearing.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.26 02:36:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Devian 666 Hehe just read the comments about taxing people in your sov space. That'd be great charge ratters 5% tax to use your space and have the ability to charge 100% tax to people in npc corps ratting in your space.
Depending on the region, I'd be fine with up to 20% or more bounty taxes. The money from bounties is chump change. The real money's in the loot/reprocess/salvage game. Even then, that still benefits the local landlords because its your buy orders I'm probably filling.
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Grapez
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2007.11.26 02:48:00 -
[130]
The problem with 0.0 is that it takes too much time for battles to affect the political landscape. As it is now, if an alliance decides to take over system XYZ-123, they have to do the following: effectively lock down XYZ, jump in dreads, put towers into reinforced, keep XYZ locked down until towers come out of reinforced, jump in dreads, destroy towers, deploy friendly towers, wait until sovereignty flips.
The effort it takes to take over a system is just about right; you should need to actually try in order to call a system your own. However, the time it takes is too much.
I would suggest either 1.) towers pop as soon as they run out of HP, get rid of reinforced mode or 2.) limit the stront bay on towers to 12 hours, at the most. This way, a battle that takes place today could translate into a sovereignty flip tomorrow. This would allow for a more fluid and dynamic political map that actually reflects the abilities and aspirations of current alliances, as opposed to the time sink that is the current state of POS warfare.
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.26 02:57:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Devian 666 on 26/11/2007 02:59:12 Edited by: Devian 666 on 26/11/2007 02:57:46
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Devian 666 Hehe just read the comments about taxing people in your sov space. That'd be great charge ratters 5% tax to use your space and have the ability to charge 100% tax to people in npc corps ratting in your space.
Depending on the region, I'd be fine with up to 20% or more bounty taxes. The money from bounties is chump change. The real money's in the loot/reprocess/salvage game. Even then, that still benefits the local landlords because its your buy orders I'm probably filling.
Yeah I'm basically interested in ideas that would make better use of existing space that's under utilised. CCP currently doesn't provide the tools to administer systems such as those suggested, which would encourage alliances to provide others with 0.0 access.
This would also increase the value of sov and would help pay some of the fuel bills.
Note that BoB attempted this with their rent a constellation scheme which is hard to enforce without sufficient political/military influence, or significant "employed" manpower (which would be a boring job).
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |

watermeron
Goony Hand Social Club GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.26 03:00:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Grapez The problem with 0.0 is that it takes too much time for battles to affect the political landscape. As it is now, if an alliance decides to take over system XYZ-123, they have to do the following: effectively lock down XYZ, jump in dreads, put towers into reinforced, keep XYZ locked down until towers come out of reinforced, jump in dreads, destroy towers, deploy friendly towers, wait until sovereignty flips.
The effort it takes to take over a system is just about right; you should need to actually try in order to call a system your own. However, the time it takes is too much.
I would suggest either 1.) towers pop as soon as they run out of HP, get rid of reinforced mode or 2.) limit the stront bay on towers to 12 hours, at the most. This way, a battle that takes place today could translate into a sovereignty flip tomorrow. This would allow for a more fluid and dynamic political map that actually reflects the abilities and aspirations of current alliances, as opposed to the time sink that is the current state of POS warfare.
almost nobody conducts POS warfare by full system lockdown anymore
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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.11.26 11:47:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Devian 666 Hehe just read the comments about taxing people in your sov space. That'd be great charge ratters 5% tax to use your space and have the ability to charge 100% tax to people in npc corps ratting in your space.
heh, that would be sick.
Overall i'm very impressed by the level of discussion in my thread. Although most of you still disagree with me in adding more space (except that guy who wanted LOADS of more new regions \o/).
If anyone wants to add anything else productive or we can just wrap it up here and present our findings to CCP with a brown envelope full of isk.
Again, thanks for all the constructive posts in this thread. Who says logical mature discussion was dead on this part of the forum!
Best Regards,
Taur
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Vanya Nenharma
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Posted - 2007.11.26 13:43:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Taurequis Hi,
Just had a thought after seeing the alt post of "POS wars or NO".
My opinion is that back in the day alot of things were made fun because of the isolation we used to have. We now have 40k people in the space we used to fit 5k.
Even with all the POS stuff and their associated wars would eve feel more like the old days if we added another bunch of regions beyond the existing ones?
More empty space, more distace to travel, less blobs?
Does it take that much more processing power in the server clusters to make more regions available?
What does everyone think?
Bigger sandpit makes better corp and alliance level play? Yes or No?
Your opinions welcome.
Thanks,
Taur
There is plenty of empty spaces, just find it and grab it
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Elohe
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.26 15:09:00 -
[135]
now that remedial is not playing the game there is a lot of space left.
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.11.26 16:06:00 -
[136]
Originally by: fugazii Initially it would create a vacuum bringing people there, like the drone regions have done. However the unfortunate part of the drone regions is, and i mean no offense by this, full of people who only own space because there was no one there already claiming it. They fight amongst themselves, but shown time and again that when actual alliances roll in there, they trample the residents.
What a load of BS! AFAIK the only 'actual alliance' to move into the Drone Regions was MC, and they didn't go far. Our alliance has killed off 2 alliances that were weak and helped Razor/MM regain what they lost. We came here on Day 1 and built/conqured everything we own.
If anything, the Drone Regions should give you a good impression of what will happen if new space is opened up: Major Powers did not scoop up space, many new alliances popped up and some were popped down. The challenges of making and Empire out of nothing chased off alot of people, while those same challenges attracted some people. There was a Gold Rush in the early days and dissillusionment at the myriad of problems with Moons, Asteroids, NPC's, Exploration, etc.
Eve is too small. More regions would be great.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.26 16:16:00 -
[137]
WHile I agree that 00 can be filled up if 00 ratting were made wtf10000x more profitable than lvl4's, you'll need to do this while balancing inflation. Cause throwing even more ISK into the system cant be good.
If anything, increase the sinks, reduce lvl4 rewards, increase security rating for far distant regions while increasing some of the middle regions will work to correct the shortcomings of earning in 00.
As for making space bigger, I really think removing local may do some good. But the biggest change will be to make some constellations more appealing. For example, in Fade there's one constellation worth a damn. You either own it, or you move elsewhere. The difference in ISK between it, around -.6 and up, and the other systems, -.5 and below, is quite stark. ----------------- Friends Forever
Kill. BoB. Dead. |

prathe
Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.11.26 16:24:00 -
[138]
0.0 is too intimidating to most empire players . because look what happens they jump a gate an WTF they die . you cant expect people to populate low infastructure , low content space . 0.0 is just a cash cow you make a big wad of money working in the wasteland then come back to civilisation to spend it . i have lived in 0.0 most of my eve career and im only there for the money and pvp . signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
why dont you just tell me ? |

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.26 16:27:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
Originally by: fugazii Initially it would create a vacuum bringing people there, like the drone regions have done. However the unfortunate part of the drone regions is, and i mean no offense by this, full of people who only own space because there was no one there already claiming it. They fight amongst themselves, but shown time and again that when actual alliances roll in there, they trample the residents.
What a load of BS! AFAIK the only 'actual alliance' to move into the Drone Regions was MC, and they didn't go far. Our alliance has killed off 2 alliances that were weak and helped Razor/MM regain what they lost. We came here on Day 1 and built/conqured everything we own.
If anything, the Drone Regions should give you a good impression of what will happen if new space is opened up: Major Powers did not scoop up space, many new alliances popped up and some were popped down. The challenges of making and Empire out of nothing chased off alot of people, while those same challenges attracted some people. There was a Gold Rush in the early days and dissillusionment at the myriad of problems with Moons, Asteroids, NPC's, Exploration, etc.
Eve is too small. More regions would be great.
Ya know, you've got a great point. The drone region area of the map is always the funnest to look at. TOns of pretty blobs of color and constant changing.
But to mimic that with new space would require the same circumstances that the drone region release introduced: different rats that scared off the old establishment, an area of the map where the confrontation wasnt facing the new areas (RAGOON/BoB, BoB/ASCN, RA/vs. ASCN everyone; D2IRON/MCBOB all were fought away from the regions, thereby reducing the attn they got. In addition, the North East has always been devoid of a cohesive long-term force, and the south East has always looked west, and not North.
Adding new territory would be problematic. Anywhere you put it, it would be next to space-greedy, powerful organizations. LIttle guys wouldnt be able to hold onto it, or even get their mouse-sized claws into it before a roaming gang came through and popped whatever they ahd going. ----------------- Friends Forever
Kill. BoB. Dead. |

Malcanis
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.26 17:08:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Devian 666 Hehe just read the comments about taxing people in your sov space. That'd be great charge ratters 5% tax to use your space and have the ability to charge 100% tax to people in npc corps ratting in your space.
That idea is more beautiful than the poetry of P. B. Shelley, and P.B. Shelley wrote some pretty good poetry.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |

Lianlan Lou
ISK Farmer and Sweatshop INC.
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Posted - 2007.11.26 18:56:00 -
[141]
Originally by: ardik CCP need to fix the -0.01 true sec systems that barely spawn kernite, those systems are just a waste of space.
More space? No thanks, i like to occasionally see other people in MMOs.
Originally by: NATMav I always thought the truesec should be affected by activity in the system. An over-farmed system slowly gains security, becoming less valuable, while unused systems slowly go lower and become more valuable. It would ecourage players to spread out more instead of fighting over a few good systems per region and hanging around the stations all the time. It works pretty well with mining...if you strip mine a system, you have to move on to another sytstem, or wait for the roids to regen.
The most popular idea in this thread seems to be to find a way to make the "crap" systems better than high sec. I like NATmav's idea for a dynamic true-sec rating.
The size of eve is ok as it is, maybe someday they will open up the Jovian space, but until then i think that the size of EvE is fine. signature goes here |

Zenethalos
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Posted - 2007.11.26 19:51:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Zenethalos on 26/11/2007 19:55:43 Since I dont know how to update my info before I be accused of posting with an alt blah blah, I am from a corp called "White Shadow Imperium" and belong to the alliance "Burning Horizons". 
I havnt taken the time to read the last 3 pages but heh. The issue isn't more needing more space its using the space that is not being used. To the mega alliances it is the shi*holes of the region they dont want to bother defending. As soon as a smaller alliance of say 300 like my own attempts to claim these not as good systems for ourselvs we are either told to pay rent, or told to tear down and relocate. Its really a lose lose situation for the smaller alliances not wanting 1000+ members. We are happy with having only 150 active and a small cap fleet because we do not want all the POS warfare attached to owning vast ammounts of space, or the logistics involved. We just want a constolation to ourselves where we can anchor a few towers to work out of and build our own oupost, and this goes for a lot of small content alliances of 300-400 members. Ultimatly we fall victim to logical falicies in believing that more space equals more oprotunity, or that the same ammount of space is fine because a lot of it is unclaimed, were just arguing in circles. What we need is larger alliances that dont want the damned space to stop being a buncha god damn j*ws and let the smaller guys that are willing to claim it, use it, and assist in the over all defence of the area do so without rediculous demands such as: half of your moon minerals will be donated to us, you will pay 100m for the alliance plus 50m+ per corp, you will not be a loud to sell items in our territory, blah blah. It creates hostilities and a lack of willingness to assist our larger allies. Overall it would probably be a lot more beneficial to allow us to police that space and work beside you. I know 4 300man alliances with 200-250 active mains that would actually help out blue allies if they were not treated with hostility for doing just that. That right there adds almost 1000 people willing to assist our larger neighbors out of amenity. Essentially in my rant the idea I am trying to portay is the ammount of space is fine, its the attitudes of the larger alliances and their greed that make it seem small or like there is not enough room because they wont claim it, but at the same time wont let allies use it.
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.26 20:58:00 -
[143]
To wall of text rantman above ^^.
If you have 250 active mains you can potentially wield an effective fighting force. Where diplomacy fails it's time to start shooting people until they're prepared to give you something.
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |

Rogen DarHeel
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Posted - 2007.11.26 21:01:00 -
[144]
Back to the original question: Does EVE need more space?
Well I think EVE is suppose to model a galaxy. If you take a look at the interactive map, it does look like a galaxy some what. However, lets take our own Milky Way Galaxy as an example. Scientists estimate that it has about 400 billion stars... 400 billion. It is also about 90,000 light years across. So unless the EVE galaxy was meant to remain a pathetic excuse for a real one, I think the EVE galaxy, should definitely have more stars.
The thing about a 90,000 light year across galaxy is that it is immensely difficult for a 15 ly jump range ship to cross. I think a fix for this though is not adding new EVE regions way out on the ends of the EVE galaxy but to add these new stars in the middle of the galaxy, change the measure of distance that determines the size of the galaxy and then make the jump ranges of jump capable ships much longer. With this model of reformation, the EVE galaxy could increase to the size of a real galaxy as technology permits.
Can you image the number of players, the number of alliances and the massive fighting that would occur!?!? It would be stupendous!! >:)
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.26 21:20:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Rogen DarHeel Back to the original question: Does EVE need more space?
Well I think EVE is suppose to model a galaxy. If you take a look at the interactive map, it does look like a galaxy some what. However, lets take our own Milky Way Galaxy as an example. Scientists estimate that it has about 400 billion stars... 400 billion. It is also about 90,000 light years across. So unless the EVE galaxy was meant to remain a pathetic excuse for a real one, I think the EVE galaxy, should definitely have more stars.
The thing about a 90,000 light year across galaxy is that it is immensely difficult for a 15 ly jump range ship to cross. I think a fix for this though is not adding new EVE regions way out on the ends of the EVE galaxy but to add these new stars in the middle of the galaxy, change the measure of distance that determines the size of the galaxy and then make the jump ranges of jump capable ships much longer. With this model of reformation, the EVE galaxy could increase to the size of a real galaxy as technology permits.
Can you image the number of players, the number of alliances and the massive fighting that would occur!?!? It would be stupendous!! >:)
EVE's about the size of a medium star cluster. Mankind tried harder to emulate a full sized galaxy.
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Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.26 21:26:00 -
[146]
Originally by: awebon
Originally by: Niedar Allow the destruction of outposts and all will be good ;0
this is perfect...
Indeed, it would be good to be able to bust a fatality on a ailing alliance by taking down their fortress of ship/clone spawning.
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John Blackthorn
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.26 21:29:00 -
[147]
There are vast area's of 0.0 that are unpopulated and the reason is simple. People tend to want the high end ores and rats, those spots are where the fights area.
You can get in the drone lands and easly go 60 jumps or more and not see anyone unless yous specifly head to one of the outpost systems.
And a system that is worth having is probibly already occupied and is so strong that any empire based corp could not take it out. It's usually another 0.0 alliance that has the resources and numbers to take new systems.
-John
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Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.26 21:41:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Graalum on 26/11/2007 21:42:07
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg WHile I agree that 00 can be filled up if 00 ratting were made wtf10000x more profitable than lvl4's, you'll need to do this while balancing inflation. Cause throwing even more ISK into the system cant be good.
If anything, increase the sinks, reduce lvl4 rewards, increase security rating for far distant regions while increasing some of the middle regions will work to correct the shortcomings of earning in 00.
As for making space bigger, I really think removing local may do some good. But the biggest change will be to make some constellations more appealing. For example, in Fade there's one constellation worth a damn. You either own it, or you move elsewhere. The difference in ISK between it, around -.6 and up, and the other systems, -.5 and below, is quite stark.
If anything the current status of eve is marked by deflation, not inflation. Have you checked the price on BS lately? You can buy them for nearly cheap enough that your insuace on your last bs will pay will the ship and reinsure., a clear sign that there isn't enough isk around. Your signature graphic must reflect your ingame persona as per The Forum rules - Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |

Mattduk
Gallente Universal Army INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.11.26 22:11:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Mattduk on 26/11/2007 22:12:29 Inflation and deflation aren't just about prices.
Inflation is a greater increase of spendable money within an economy in relation to the increase in population.
More isk is generated daily in Eve, via faucets, than is removed, via sinks. This is inflation. The rate at which the quantity of isk existing in game increases is not matched by the increase in population.
However, since supply and demand actually control prices in a free market economy, you can have inflation and a decrease in prices at the same time.
On topic however, I feel that new regions would be cool. I can see the logic in a lot of the posts here. I agree that a lot of the space is useless and the 'good' areas of 0.0 are curretly blobbed to high heaven, increasing the barriers to entry for a huge portion of players. I also agree that some of the 0.0 space needs to be made more valuable and Empire needs to be made less valuable, to the point where 0.0 is financially worth it. It sickens me to see how quickly younger players are filling their wallets with way more spending power than I ever had after 6 months in the game and at the same time, they are doing it with 0 risk. This is very bad in my opinion.
Money makes the world go round lads, there's no denying it. Move the rewards away from empire and towards 0.0 and you will fill those empty null sec systems. Then you can decide if there is enough space.
Regards Mattduk
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.26 23:50:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Volir Make the crap 0.0 space worth something. Make lowsec worth something.
How about we move the agents? All level 4s are moved to lowsec and nullsec. All level 5s are in nullsec. Upgrade the encounter system for nullsec. Booyah, Empire is nerfed, lowsec is boosted, and nullsec gets some love.
There are millions of threads covering these suggestions. This is the reason why I have discussed rewards in a generic sense as it's not about forcing people into low sec or 0.0.
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |

FreeMarket
Incognito Inc
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 00:28:00 -
[151]
People looking for a good fight=Blobs
More space means more empty space and Blobs are still Blobbing each other.
We need more players to fill the space and they you will have a higher number of fights because you have to travel less to find them in 0.0
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 00:46:00 -
[152]
What I envision of 0.0 is something with more economic flow. The limited tools available for managing 0.0 make it difficult to build into anything of significant value.
More tools including taxation of ratting or similar system would encourage alliances to let more people into their space. Then you could have a 0.0 economy like CVA but without the NRDS anti-pvper policy.
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |

Gibson Rothman
HOMELESS. Band of Bums
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 00:53:00 -
[153]
Originally by: PMolkenthin Im not exactly an old school player, but I do remember > 10k players on TQ. 
What about 1000 players during NA timezones? that was good times. Back then the game felt "huge" its the sense of knowing that no one is around, it actually felt more... spacey back then. Now a days it just feels so... I dunno, cluster bunked.
*shrug* I personally as a small time beta player, in light of many other things that CCP is doing to make eve better, I really expected more "regions" then just the drone regions. I feel the at some point, maybe not today, or a month but at some point the playing field needs to be doubled, or even tripled, sounds crazy but use your imagination as to why. More Heads, More Silver
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Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 02:21:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Mattduk Edited by: Mattduk on 26/11/2007 22:12:29 Inflation and deflation aren't just about prices.
Inflation is a greater increase of spendable money within an economy in relation to the increase in population.
dead wrong. inflation depends on quantity of money and supply of goods. Current a smaller and smaller portion of the population is working in direct isk generation, while many more are involved in invention, t2 and t1 production, rig production, exploration, trade, etc, that typically don't increase the quantity of money. With an increase in goods for sale, and increased ease in production, you either need an increase in the speed of money (unlikely with current mechanics) or a decrease in prices to reach an equilibrium trade volume.
Quote: More isk is generated daily in Eve, via faucets, than is removed, via sinks. This is inflation. The rate at which the quantity of isk existing in game increases is not matched by the increase in population.
Your definition of inflation is wrong, and you offer no proof other than an factless allegation.
Quote: However, since supply and demand actually control prices in a free market economy, you can have inflation and a decrease in prices at the same time.
wts intro to econ skillbook. Your signature graphic must reflect your ingame persona as per The Forum rules - Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |

Hardin
Amarr Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 02:31:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Devian 666 What I envision of 0.0 is something with more economic flow. The limited tools available for managing 0.0 make it difficult to build into anything of significant value.
More tools including taxation of ratting or similar system would encourage alliances to let more people into their space. Then you could have a 0.0 economy like CVA but without the NRDS anti-pvper policy.
I agree with your sentiment about developing the tools to manage regions - however I have to disagree with your NRDS 'anti-PvPer' comment. Come to Providence - join the forces of good (AKA Amarr) trying to enforce NRDS and then tell me that it is anti-PvP.
It would be anti-PvP if everyone agreed with the approach - however there are plenty of people (including your chaps) who don't 
------------------------------
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Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 02:38:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Devian 666 on 27/11/2007 02:38:37
Originally by: Hardin
Originally by: Devian 666 What I envision of 0.0 is something with more economic flow. The limited tools available for managing 0.0 make it difficult to build into anything of significant value.
More tools including taxation of ratting or similar system would encourage alliances to let more people into their space. Then you could have a 0.0 economy like CVA but without the NRDS anti-pvper policy.
I agree with your sentiment about developing the tools to manage regions - however I have to disagree with your NRDS 'anti-PvPer' comment. Come to Providence - join the forces of good (AKA Amarr) trying to enforce NRDS and then tell me that it is anti-PvP.
It would be anti-PvP if everyone agreed with the approach - however there are plenty of people (including your chaps) who don't 
I call it anti-pvp because NRDS requires too much thinking and checking. So I'll call it a "pro-headache" policy, or NeRDS to keep you happy. 
We almost won. [ 2007.11.17 08:26:19 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your 150mm Railgun II places an excellent hit on Shrike [EVOL]<BOB>(Avatar), inflicting 41.4 damage. |

Securion Wolfheart
Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 03:06:00 -
[157]
EVE feels very crowded these days.
More space? Hell yes!
Some people want to know: ôHow can you convince these people that they are wrong and you are right?ö My first thought is, ôWho cares?ö |

Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 03:11:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Janu Hull on 27/11/2007 03:13:32
Originally by: Devian 666 Edited by: Devian 666 on 27/11/2007 02:38:37
Originally by: Hardin
Originally by: Devian 666 What I envision of 0.0 is something with more economic flow. The limited tools available for managing 0.0 make it difficult to build into anything of significant value.
More tools including taxation of ratting or similar system would encourage alliances to let more people into their space. Then you could have a 0.0 economy like CVA but without the NRDS anti-pvper policy.
I agree with your sentiment about developing the tools to manage regions - however I have to disagree with your NRDS 'anti-PvPer' comment. Come to Providence - join the forces of good (AKA Amarr) trying to enforce NRDS and then tell me that it is anti-PvP.
It would be anti-PvP if everyone agreed with the approach - however there are plenty of people (including your chaps) who don't 
I call it anti-pvp because NRDS requires too much thinking and checking. So I'll call it a "pro-headache" policy, or NeRDS to keep you happy. 
Its just as easy to mark corps red as it does blue. Only when someone new starts causing grief, or someone supposedly friendly goes hostile, do we bother them for any kind of management help. Most of the time its a matter of letting new people know who existing hostiles are when they ask, and that's something very easily handled by the ratters without bothering CVA.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 03:17:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Janu Hull Edited by: Janu Hull on 27/11/2007 03:13:32
Originally by: Devian 666 Edited by: Devian 666 on 27/11/2007 02:38:37
Originally by: Hardin
Originally by: Devian 666 What I envision of 0.0 is something with more economic flow. The limited tools available for managing 0.0 make it difficult to build into anything of significant value.
More tools including taxation of ratting or similar system would encourage alliances to let more people into their space. Then you could have a 0.0 economy like CVA but without the NRDS anti-pvper policy.
I agree with your sentiment about developing the tools to manage regions - however I have to disagree with your NRDS 'anti-PvPer' comment. Come to Providence - join the forces of good (AKA Amarr) trying to enforce NRDS and then tell me that it is anti-PvP.
It would be anti-PvP if everyone agreed with the approach - however there are plenty of people (including your chaps) who don't 
I call it anti-pvp because NRDS requires too much thinking and checking. So I'll call it a "pro-headache" policy, or NeRDS to keep you happy. 
Its just as easy to mark corps red as it does blue. Only when someone new starts causing grief, or someone supposedly friendly goes hostile, do we bother them for any kind of management help. Most of the time its a matter of letting new people know who existing hostiles are when they ask, and that's something very easily handled by the ratters without bothering CVA.
I'm not saying NBSI wrong, NRDS right, I'm just saying that NRDS isn't quite the headache you think it is.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 19:22:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 27/11/2007 19:22:49
Originally by: Graalum
Originally by: Mattduk Edited by: Mattduk on 26/11/2007 22:12:29 Inflation and deflation aren't just about prices.
Inflation is a greater increase of spendable money within an economy in relation to the increase in population.
dead wrong. inflation depends on quantity of money and supply of goods. Current a smaller and smaller portion of the population is working in direct isk generation, while many more are involved in invention, t2 and t1 production, rig production, exploration, trade, etc, that typically don't increase the quantity of money. With an increase in goods for sale, and increased ease in production, you either need an increase in the speed of money (unlikely with current mechanics) or a decrease in prices to reach an equilibrium trade volume.
Quote: More isk is generated daily in Eve, via faucets, than is removed, via sinks. This is inflation. The rate at which the quantity of isk existing in game increases is not matched by the increase in population.
Your definition of inflation is wrong, and you offer no proof other than an factless allegation.
Quote: However, since supply and demand actually control prices in a free market economy, you can have inflation and a decrease in prices at the same time.
wts intro to econ skillbook.
...so there's too much money.
While I disagree that there's less ISK coming in (look at the farmers, lvl4's, bounties in 00)in relation to the # of players, I do agree that there's more people making goods. More people making goods = lower prices, as anyone who buys t2 cap rechargers can attest to. This means that the purchasing power of your typical individual has gone up by over 100% in a VERY short time. Couple this with modest increases in ISK in circulation, and you have waaay too much money out there.
[The poster you so pathetically tore into meant PP, not inflation, you douche]
In fact, your typical lvl4 runner can buy everything he needs easily, again, not because he's necesssarily getting more ISK per mission (he is, just a tad) but because the ISK he does get, can buy waay more because of invention, more people getting into manufacturing (IPO's and such) and the crazy amount of ISK that's being invested into manufacturing as opposed to warfare (the biggest sinks come from insurance, control tower purchases, and a number of things that pvp'ers/station owners have to buy from NPC's that your typical manufacturer doesnt...keepign ISK in teh system)
Again, In summation, too much ISK in EVE. Get more people in 00 by decreasing lvl4 returns and increasing 00 returns, bearing in mind that the purchasing power of 1.00 ISK has gone up many times since invention was brought to us because of cheaper T2 mods, ships and the ever increasing amount of ISK in circulation. ----------------- Friends Forever
Kill. BoB. Dead. |

Moon Kitten
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 19:31:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart EVE feels very crowded these days.
More space? Hell yes!
There's lots of empty space in 0.0 that isn't being used.
Layla > i wont have anyone say we didnt fight for our space |

azura nester
White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 20:08:00 -
[162]
Edited by: azura nester on 27/11/2007 20:08:42
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart EVE feels very crowded these days.
More space? Hell yes!
more space needed? maybe veritas should stop attempting to control GW, you should come down to real 0.0
no..more space is not needed. they just need to make more space worth fighting for.
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Dirtball
PinK TacO Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.11.27 20:23:00 -
[163]
Originally by: RogerWilco I agree with what has been said earlier, remove local chat, and u should only know what is in a system if u are in it, structures and man wise.
surprises ftw..
when i played jumpgate the game felt empty, like it was not even an online game, I imagine if you took local away it might create that same feeling. That may be good or bad though.
I remember back when CA was attacking CFS, before I joined any alliance and the closest station was Gehi, I was tooling around around 1DH looking for some sanshas to kill and then the local channel bugged and all kinds of people were showing up in local and I started ****ting my pants, it didn't help that the first people that started showing up were CA, but once they started saying stuff like WTS Tempest 1 run bpc me 10 and they had all kinds of different alliance tags in their bios I figured out that the trade channel was bugging with the local channel for me.
Also I'll add it was pretty cool to be out in those areas when it was all lonely with nothing but secure containers to resupply your ammo with.
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MrLobster
Clawstrawphonebeer
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Posted - 2007.11.28 00:03:00 -
[164]
hmmmmm
To the people who want to remove local will have a profound effect on ratters.
Think about it, if your a ratter would you risk sitting in a 0.0 belt not knowing a gang with cloakers are coming into your belt.
or would you move to empire (even with the lag) and do missions with near no risk and getting nearly the same isk.
Removing local isnt an option. _________________________
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Rogen DarHeel
|
Posted - 2007.11.29 17:32:00 -
[165]
So... bringing this thread back to the original question....
Do we need more space?
I say yes. 0.0 was meant to be a vast empty region of lawless galaxy. These days, I am miffed by the amount of rules and regulations I have to conform to when in alliance space and allied space. And lets not forget about the fact that unless I want to pvp the week away, I certainly can't go into enemy space and expect to be left alone.
To those who say that there are places in 0.0 that are unused:
There are certainly lots of empty areas, but those areas are empty for a reason. They suck in terms of worth. And If you so desired to occupy that space I have yet to see ANY unclaimed space on the automated territory maps in which to do so. One might be able to occupy that space for awhile but sooner or later, whatever BIG alliance veiws that space as "thiers", will come to crush you to bits. BOB, GOONS and RED, have done it numerous times. The idea that you can just run out to 0.0 and occupy any seemingly empty space is lunacy.
With all these regulations and occupations, EVE definitely needs some new far flung space that is totally empty and totally free. I still have an issue with the galaxy's size as well. A carrier cap ship can cross the galaxy in about 6 jumps. With a range of 15ly's thats only 90ly's across. 90ly's doesn't even cover the width of the galactic arm in which Earth resides. If the EVE galaxy was made to model the Milky Way, there would be more than enough space for everyone.
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.11.29 18:12:00 -
[166]
What would make more people move to the less crowded parts of 0.0 space? Being able to anchor POS guns around gates in systems where they have Sov 2 or higher, with higher sov = more firepower. They can be set to fire on WTs only, Hostiles, non-Alliance members, and even individuals with low standings. They also allow for manual control, for taking up positions against known incoming threats.
They won't stop a cap ship steamroller (cynos don't use gates), but it would keep home systems a bit more protected from harrier raids, as well as give incentive for small alliances to risk their tiny nest eggs to move out to dangerous territory AND give them a fighting chance in their first few days in unfriendly territory.
It would also emphasize tactics for new ships coming out in Trinity, such as the Blackops. Want to get your gang into an enemy's system station? Make it more work than blobbing the gate and hoping you win the lag lottery (aka, Powerpoint Online)
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
|
Posted - 2007.11.29 18:23:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Alz Shado What would make more people move to the less crowded parts of 0.0 space? Being able to anchor POS guns around gates in systems where they have Sov 2 or higher, with higher sov = more firepower. They can be set to fire on WTs only, Hostiles, non-Alliance members, and even individuals with low standings. They also allow for manual control, for taking up positions against known incoming threats.
They won't stop a cap ship steamroller (cynos don't use gates), but it would keep home systems a bit more protected from harrier raids, as well as give incentive for small alliances to risk their tiny nest eggs to move out to dangerous territory AND give them a fighting chance in their first few days in unfriendly territory.
It would also emphasize tactics for new ships coming out in Trinity, such as the Blackops. Want to get your gang into an enemy's system station? Make it more work than blobbing the gate and hoping you win the lag lottery (aka, Powerpoint Online)
Meh, POS gate guns look great on paper, except that Sov 2 isn't difficult to muster and all they accomplish is further isolating small players from the field by subjecting them to instant death for daring to explore.
If Sentry Guns are positionable by gates, it should be in very high sovreignty systems (Sovreignty 4 and the immediately adjacent systems) where the local alliance can claim they really DO control the system on a round the clock basis.
Even then, you're still creating the potential for killer chokepoint control and even less penetration of 0.0 by non-alliance pilots.
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Ryuga VonRhaiden
Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 00:34:00 -
[168]
there is no space in space.
actually, when you think about space, you think about vast and unexplored regions. you think about what surprises await you in outer space. you certainly don't think about space as overcrowded favelas full of criminals and warring gangs. what we have now is very far from being perceived as "space".
still, high sec doesn't hurt. we NEED to have a busy central empire full of people doing their own business. tradesmen, bureaucrats, rich "aristocrats", security, it's realistic. many people don't like to adventure far from home, and that's totally in line with sci-fi canons.
then we come to vastness. and there is no more vastness in eve. 5000 systems are lots for 5000 people. but it's barely enough to sustain 40.000 people. we need vastness. and pioneers. the actual 0.0 should be considered the immediate outskirts of central space, not the whole space. there should be plenty to explore. the farther you go, the less the outposts (and it should be somehow enforced).
another point is moon minerals. they should randomize, spawn and despawn over time (say, an average lifespan of 2 weeks or so), so being a prospector should be a viable way of life. you search for good minerals and sell the information to corps/alliances interested in mining.
Do not try and find the signature... that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth... There is no signature. |

Naridos
Caldari IDLE GUNS
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 00:43:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart EVE feels very crowded these days.
More space? Hell yes!
There's lots of empty space in 0.0 that isn't being used.
Have to agree here. The fact that you are in someones sov space and you jump into system to find only yourself in local, I would say that there is plenty of space.
Statistically speaking, and this may be a bit inaccurate, there is only 9% of all eve players living in 0.0. There are places in Eve where yes, there are huge gangs running around and it may seem crowded but you have to look at everywhere else. There is SOOOOO much space not being used with only 9% of people in 0.0 and there is a lot of room to grow.
Quote: Pandas are the PWN of Eve. Pandas!
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Yara Stone
Southern Productions
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Posted - 2007.11.30 15:13:00 -
[170]
I've though about this for some time and would like to see systems added to the games with no jump bridges, access to the systems would be from random cosmic sites and if you wanted to setup something in the system then you would have to put a jump bridge in.
Just my 2 cents
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 18:47:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Trent Nichols on 30/11/2007 18:53:28
Originally by: Naridos
Originally by: Moon Kitten
Originally by: Securion Wolfheart EVE feels very crowded these days.
More space? Hell yes!
There's lots of empty space in 0.0 that isn't being used.
Have to agree here. The fact that you are in someones sov space and you jump into system to find only yourself in local, I would say that there is plenty of space.
Statistically speaking, and this may be a bit inaccurate, there is only 9% of all eve players living in 0.0. There are places in Eve where yes, there are huge gangs running around and it may seem crowded but you have to look at everywhere else. There is SOOOOO much space not being used with only 9% of people in 0.0 and there is a lot of room to grow.
The problem with that argument is that much of 0.0 is either crap or along a travel route which makes mining or ratting too dangerous to be profitable.
As for the room to grow thing. Its impossible for any upstart corp or alliance to move out to 0.0 without connections to a major power block; freelancers would be booted right back to empire.
While this is perfectly logical in the might makes right sense, it contributes to blob warfare and cuts down on the chance finding small, lag free fights.
Trinity: The best content release ever, completely overshadowed by the worst nerfs ever. |

The Djego
Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2007.12.10 23:44:00 -
[172]
Edited by: The Djego on 10/12/2007 23:47:06 Some new Regions would be nice, mayby put in not the big Belt Rats and High ores but high end Exploration and Missioncontend. Afterall there is no real PVE Contend in 0.0 (Roleplayingwise go into the real systems of a NPC Faction) like Level 6 or 7 Missions that get you things you will never get in Empire(new Implants, Faction Stuff). Afterall Level 5 Missions are a great fail and Level 4 is nerfed so hard over my 1.5 years in EvE experience every noob can do them today. 0.0 needs more Systems that are worth ratting and Mining and mayby some more exploration Contend.
I found the Idea of seperated High Sec Systems in 0.0 Areas yust brillant. That would open very good Trading and Industial Opertunitys. Afterall Industrie in 0.0 is more like selffeeding the aliances(not bad afterall) but it is not going to atract Traders or Industial Chars or suply random Chars that want to go there without beeing in the Allinace.
Afterall, 0.0 yust needs to have more conted than PVP to make it more atractive. Its great for PVP but it lacs Contend when you wan¦t to make Money and doing something that is not PVP based.
- more systems should have -0.7 or better - more PVE Contend to fill your walled and give the older Player a risky but worthy option - some new NPC Regions for high end PVE Contend(giving the reward you want if you can do every L4 semi afk and asking for a chalange, and yes a Solotanked a L5 in a HAC) - some High Sec Isles in 0.0 for trading and producing suff and a better market overall Nerf Tank, boost Gank! XD
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Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 01:47:00 -
[173]
If anything there is to much crap 0.0 space.
Love to the Assault Frigate! |

Snowden Vel
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 03:18:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Snowden Vel on 11/12/2007 03:18:58
Originally by: Ndundhu We are entering an era where we are so many that we actually have to fight for the resources now. Territorial warfare is fun and it would be a shame to add more systems so people would expand instead of fight.
Originally by: Skraeling Shortbus If anything there is to much crap 0.0 space.
Agreeing with all of this, especially the first quote. I'm happiest when I can get a full-blown battle within 5-10 jumps or hop in a Sabre and chase a random ganker around friendly space. I'm not playing this game just to make my e-wallet fatter. 0.0 is build around a risk-reward philosophy; opening up enough buffer space so that everyone can feel warm and cozy and safe in their space castle would gut the most compelling feature of this game: if you want to hold space you have to earn it the hard way.
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Re Mi
Caldari Funshine Unlimited
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 04:06:00 -
[175]
We don't need more space, what we need is terrain. Right now a system only has a POS, some roid belts and some gates. There aren't really any spatial features except cosmetic ones. Certain areas of eve should be full of energy clouds blocking scanners, places where you could hide small bands of pirates or revolutionaries, or holdouts from battles. There should be places that few ships dare travel due to natural hazards. There should be places where communications is spotty, and you are on your own, cut off from the rest of eve. There are a lot of things you can do with terrain, and the "lay of the land" that would make space more interesting.
Put this in WW2 perspective. Every battle fought in eve is like the battle for Poland or the lowland areas in Europe. It is a flat, largely unobstructed area. Huge armies could blaze across it. It created a pure, force on force structure where battles were fought out like giant diagrams of men and machines.
We need to get out of that paradigm, and get into something more like the high seas of 1820's. There were pirates in remote coves, full of dangerous unmapped shoals, while the major sea lanes were controlled by the great powers and the smaller powers were able to navigate from protected ports. Everyone had a place to make their stand on equal footing, and people had a place to build their base of power. Such a move would also help to get us away from POS warfare/blobs, and more towards battles of maneuver, and terrain, which could be a lot more fun, and require tactical and strategic thinking because blobs would get broken up by terrain, or trapped and anhihiliated by forces better equipped for specialized terrain.
It would also add the possibility of secret bases, of holdout resistance in a system, and of the need to actually pacify and hold space, rather than simply blow up a few ships and declare victory. It would also add new logistics fun, allowing small scale operators a place to work from, add secrecy as an extra layer of security. It would make exploration and intelligence much more important, making small roving gangs have a much more useful function. I think all of the focus on new mods and production techniques in the game has been misplaced to a certain extent, and more attention ought to be placed on game environment.
Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation |

Jaikar Isillia
The Vinlanders SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 06:13:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Re Mi We don't need more space, what we need is terrain. Right now a system only has a POS, some roid belts and some gates. There aren't really any spatial features except cosmetic ones. Certain areas of eve should be full of energy clouds blocking scanners, places where you could hide small bands of pirates or revolutionaries, or holdouts from battles. There should be places that few ships dare travel due to natural hazards. There should be places where communications is spotty, and you are on your own, cut off from the rest of eve. There are a lot of things you can do with terrain, and the "lay of the land" that would make space more interesting.
Put this in WW2 perspective. Every battle fought in eve is like the battle for Poland or the lowland areas in Europe. It is a flat, largely unobstructed area. Huge armies could blaze across it. It created a pure, force on force structure where battles were fought out like giant diagrams of men and machines.
We need to get out of that paradigm, and get into something more like the high seas of 1820's. There were pirates in remote coves, full of dangerous unmapped shoals, while the major sea lanes were controlled by the great powers and the smaller powers were able to navigate from protected ports. Everyone had a place to make their stand on equal footing, and people had a place to build their base of power. Such a move would also help to get us away from POS warfare/blobs, and more towards battles of maneuver, and terrain, which could be a lot more fun, and require tactical and strategic thinking because blobs would get broken up by terrain, or trapped and anhihiliated by forces better equipped for specialized terrain.
It would also add the possibility of secret bases, of holdout resistance in a system, and of the need to actually pacify and hold space, rather than simply blow up a few ships and declare victory. It would also add new logistics fun, allowing small scale operators a place to work from, add secrecy as an extra layer of security. It would make exploration and intelligence much more important, making small roving gangs have a much more useful function. I think all of the focus on new mods and production techniques in the game has been misplaced to a certain extent, and more attention ought to be placed on game environment.
Thats all nice in theory, however making is entertaining, accessible and worth while in game is another thing entirely.
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Horatio Nately
Caldari 808 Enterprises The Red Skull
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 06:25:00 -
[177]
Originally by: The Djego
Low Sec should be boosted for better rats(and loot ofc) and better reward.
- more systems should have -0.7 or better - more PVE Contend to fill your walled and give the older Player a risky but worthy option - some new NPC Regions for high end PVE Contend(giving the reward you want if you can do every L4 semi afk and asking for a chalange, and yes a Solotanked a L5 in a HAC) - some High Sec Isles in 0.0 for trading and producing suff and a better market overall - boost Low Sec
/signed
the only thing I could add to this is more accessways (pipes) into 0.0 space ---------------------------------------
CEO 808 Enterprises, A Hawaii, USA Playercorp Supporting the Caldari State (of mind) |

Nomme
5ILEX
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 11:30:00 -
[178]
I started to think we would need more space about 1 year ago. Maybe CCP could add an outer rim to the current Universe,something 0.1>. Where :-
Remove Officer Spawns and add them to this new area.
Tactical enviroments could finally be introduced. Linkage
Single player owned structures could be added Linkage
New Strains of Pirate Factions could be introduced with Super COSMOS type exploration sites added. (Anyone remeber the Dev Video of the ship piloting the hollowed out asteroid,great add these super dungeons as well).
Remove the ability to hold SOV,ie no POS or OUTPOSTSbut make the regions only accessable by a fair amount of gates spead throughout LOW-SEC,so no bubble gate camps,like 0.0.
Make it so its possible to jump drive to the system but far enough away that you have to pass though 0.0 at some stage.
Asteroid mining v.well rewarded,but you would need the Rorqual,to do it in any serious size.
Total blackout of map information once you are there,ie no cyno spots players killed in last ect ect.
(Maybe even removal of local,a total true -0.0>-0.10).
Pirates could truly practice their art,explorers could really pioneer,the smaller corps could try their luck at super payday ninja mining ops,and the larger alliances could have a stake but all of this would be outside the sphere of POS warfare,which migh be a welcome relief to the grind it has become.
This would in no way compete with 0.0 in regards to Alliance Warfare/and Fleet Warfare,ship building,but would add a true wilderness that is lacking since 0.0 became blanketed and conquered,offering a bigger sandbox and another fresh avenue of gameplay to EvE.
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Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.12.11 13:18:00 -
[179]
Making it so that rare spawns doesn't come closer than 5 jumps from an outpost would be a welcome change prior to an expansion of space, that way people won't build their outposts on the very rim of know space and the outlaying areas will have some sense of deep space to them.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |

Taurequis
Waylander 01
|
Posted - 2007.12.11 14:32:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Taurequis on 11/12/2007 14:32:24 Hi,
Wow,
My thread just keeps on going with decent suggestions.
Thanks for all the contributions and lack of flames or stuff too far off topic.
Keep up the good work.
Best Regards,
Taur (promoting decent forum posts since nov 2007 )
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Rastadeen
Minmatar Sphere Design Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 15:45:00 -
[181]
Main problem with EvE universe and its resource usage is that they have ranked everything. Like you have a level 4 ql 18 agent in 0.5 sec without borders to lowsec only a few places, thus everyone cramps up in those few spots in the end.
You have 0sec systems with lower truesec and better rats/roids than other systems = people cramp up in the best systems.
When you fly through most regions, be it empire or 0sec, you very rarely will find people where you dont have the best quality ****zle. Only exceptions are places of strategic intrests ie entrance system somewhere.
They could start by making more agents with as close to similar as possible qualities to spread people out more. And make more systems with higher truesec.
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Ed Anger
Weekly World News Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.12.11 18:38:00 -
[182]
I'd like to see more space, and I'd like to see more space drinks, like Tang.
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PleXD
Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.12.13 03:00:00 -
[183]
Edited by: PleXD on 13/12/2007 03:01:20 No more space is required. There are large areas of space that are unused. These areas are unused for several reasons most have been stated òCrap systems that you really have to grind to make isk. Making it not suitable for a small corp/alliance to move in and defend òThe layout of the gates making easy bottle necks for alliances to defend large areas (even entire regions) easily. òEct
To change this the outer regions (regions furthest from empire) need to have a sec status of about -.2 or -.3 or lower for every system. The regions adjacent to empire have a high number of residence and people travelling through. The people living here do not need to travel far to buy the cheap ships and mods that invention brought to the game. So the sec status of these systems does not need to be changed.
However the outlying regions are harder to get to (even more so now the carrier/mothership nerf has been introduced) and have more risk and time moving equipment/resources back to empire and from empire to get a profit. So the sec status of these regions should be changed across the board.
Short of CCP adding gates and changing the layout of the gates what should be added to the game is the ability of the players to create their own gates between systems. These player built gates will have limitations. òThey will be hugely expensive or have a large skill tree assigned to it that has no use else where. òA maximum distance they can be connected to the next star. (so that you cannot connect the edge of empire space to Period Basis) òHaving a maximum of say 2-3 player built gates per system òMaybe having the option of the gates not showing connecting lines on the Map òAnd maybe having the option of being able to destroy the gates
These changes will in effect have a progressive effect. The larger/stronger alliances will move further away from empire to the better regions leaving a vacuum of sorts for smaller less established alliances to move in closer to empire.
-------- Those Arn't the Roids we are looking for. |

Wodanonline
The Last Resort.
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Posted - 2007.12.13 03:06:00 -
[184]
i think this is a good idea tough. but posted in the wrong cathegory.
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levitron
Gallente NASCR FTW
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Posted - 2007.12.13 06:10:00 -
[185]
How about making a lot more entry points to 0.0 so small guys have a chance to even get in. Right now 1 gate camp just about keeps everyone out.
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Gontard
Minmatar E-Truth
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Posted - 2007.12.13 07:55:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Gontard on 13/12/2007 07:55:58
Originally by: PleXD
To change this the outer regions (regions furthest from empire) need to have a sec status of about -.2 or -.3 or lower for every system. The regions adjacent to empire have a high number of residence and people travelling through. The people living here do not need to travel far to buy the cheap ships and mods that invention brought to the game. So the sec status of these systems does not need to be changed.
This is wrong because regions closer to empire are roamed by far more many hostiles than the deep 0.0 Also closer to empire mean easier to attack. YOur suggestion is just an isk farmer paradise proposal.
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Faedin Flame
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Posted - 2007.12.13 11:32:00 -
[187]
well the alliance 'grab' and 'hold' mentality -- namely RA and BoB -- makes vast stretches of 0.0 useless to 85% of the eve player base
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Ventro69
Caldari Manson Family Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.12.13 11:35:00 -
[188]
Originally by: levitron How about making a lot more entry points to 0.0 so small guys have a chance to even get in. Right now 1 gate camp just about keeps everyone out.
NO!
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Dipluz
NailorTech Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.13 12:36:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Jacob Castillo Massively reduce alliance sizes, and the size of the space they hold. I'd imagine that this would also effect gang sizes too, so you'd be killing a few problems at once. Somehow...
wouldnt help 1 bit, beacuse then u would have 100alliances allied to each other with a common intel channel thats the difference
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The Dokter
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.12.13 12:47:00 -
[190]
Oke, have thought about this subject when I came back from fanfest and heard about tonnyland And saw some nice ideas in this thread so bare with me a bit. I know it is a wall of text. 
1. Remove local, it will allow a lot more small scale pvping and people need to get more help being in 0.0. It stills mind boggling you can rat in 0.0 with only your lone raven without any support in 10 jumps. In 0.0 you should always have the ability to defend yourself, or have friends who can do that.
1.a. Finally find a system where you can probe down cloaked ships, or make a module that you can activate and gives a warning when there is a cloaked ship within 150 km. Give a same sort of module that you can scan that person down to 0 km. Make the warning system have a 10 second delay, the searching a 3 minute delay (or somehting around that order).
2. Add a system that when you enter claimed systems you have to pay a tax, depended on the number of players averaged per system from the claiming alliance/corp. But make it that if there are systems with 0(1-5) people in it they count as negative on your tax, the same with systems with 50+ people in it. Calculate this number on a average every day and the tax changes every week/month.
In this system when you are entering a claimed system and youÆre set to +10 you pay no tax, set to +5 (50% discount) and at 0 or lower you pay normal tax to enter the system. But you can refuse to pay the tax, but then you will show up in local. Also every time you leave or log in a claimed system you have to to pay or decline to enter the system again.
3. Make eve bigger. Not by adding random systems, but by making the 4 (or even all pirate factions) have there own high sec space, low sec and 0.0, this space you can enter with 0 or negative standing without problems, when you have positive standings towards concord it will work in the same as negative standings in empire atm. Make the distance between the new systems and empire so big that only jump freighters can jump it and the rest of the cap ships need to stay in empire or in there pirate empires.
Make sure that there is reason to trade between these empires. Ores you can only get there, implants, bpcÆs, etc. Because of the logistics involved (you need to travel through: empire high sec> empire low sec> normal 0.0> pirate 0.0> pirate low sec and then you are in pirate high sec) the outskirts of 0.0 will be more interesting for people to live in and maybe even viable for some sort of economy. Imagine 0.0 Jita 
4. Make the systems lose value when they are used too much, this should also include cosmos stuff. Maybe even make it that constellations that are overused lose there value completely and others would increase because they arenÆt used. Then there is no need to increase less valuable systems because they will increase over time.
5. Remove level 4 agents from high sec and place them all in low sec, this would make the risk reward situation better.
6. Last one, maybe try to decrease the advantage of jump bridges by making a ring around empire where you canÆt use them. But increase the entry points to 0.0. This would make it harder to get stuff in to 0.0 but not completely impossible, because you could just take another route and not everything can be camped with a massive blob and without the jump bridges, people move around a bit slower with there heavy fleets.
Hopefully some devs will read this thread and make some changes.
"It is a good idea to "shop around" before you settle on a doctor. He can kill you." |

Fred0
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.13 13:17:00 -
[191]
Awesome ideas Dokter. Awesome. ---
"Cutting Edge 4 Life" |

Jalaliba
Minmatar Jalaliba Trading Company
|
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:39:00 -
[192]
This thread inspired me to post my ideas on changing Inter-System Travel Mechanics. Link this with improved 0.0 resources. Your feedback is welcome.
link to post:
New Inter-System Travel Mechanics
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Maladora
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.13 14:36:00 -
[193]
Originally by: FOFOFOF
- Anchor sentries at 0.0 gates
Whats the argument behind not having that?
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Jalaliba
Minmatar Jalaliba Trading Company
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Posted - 2007.12.13 14:46:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Maladora
Originally by: FOFOFOF - Anchor sentries at 0.0 gates
Whats the argument behind not having that?
Gates belong to NPC's, it's like asking to anchor sentries at lowsec NPC stations. Quite why NPC's have gates in 0.0 is another question.
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Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.12.13 16:26:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Morris Falter Wasn't this brought up already?
Basically was a toss up between having lots of 0.0 space undeveloped (which it is at the moment)
Who wants to develop a particular area of 0.0 space when one of the main power blocs has a station 5-10 jumps away?
We need a lot more space. EVE is way too crowded, this is the main reason for all the blob warfare.
"...been designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Imagine a handful of repair drones pouring from the carebear's mouth. Now imagine they have um, nothing." -Unknown Hel redesigner (2007) |

Blazing Fire
Interstellar Operations Incorporated Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.12.13 16:38:00 -
[196]
We need dynamic true sec, based on utilization of a given system.
We need proper reward system - 0.0>lowsec>highsec, not highsec>0.0>lowsec.
The 0.0 need to be able to support more people ISKwise.
If 0.0 can support more people, they will actualy move there.
And I support the idea of Alliance taxation for ratting in systems with SOV.
Best idea so far = 100% tax for NPC corp members. I really hate those ISK sellers. They are bad for the game.
More space will be realy nice, but when the current 0.0 is filled up.
The idea of having distant regions, so no cap ships jump to there is pointless really. People will jsut build them there. And who goes there first wins. We better have regions with very good rewards, but no outposts. With redesigned POSes and Mothership (more ships docked and more clonevat space), this space will be real fun. It should be the real ISK making space, but nobody should be able to control it, or at least no so easly if you are big enough.
Blazing Fire CEO Interstellar Operations Incorporated Corp web site
Recruitment PvPeers wanted for 0.0 Fleet ops and roaming/defense gangs Looking for experienced players Looking for new EVE players
Services [Service] Killboard hosting [Service] Forum hosting [Service] Cheap Web site hosting [Service] Obelisk for rent [Service] Alliance Creation
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.12.13 18:25:00 -
[197]
We dont need more space, make the existing, now crap, space more useful or interesting. ----------------- Friends Forever
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Snowden Vel
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.13 18:39:00 -
[198]
I like the dynamic truesec idea and a few of the other ones that have been broached in here but a lot of the most drastic complaints come from people who basically want something for nothing. In 0.0 EVE is at its best because of the military and diplomatic imperatives that come with holding space. There should not be enough space to keep everyone happy. What's the point of competing if there are no winners and losers?
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Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
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Posted - 2007.12.13 18:52:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Johnny ReeRee on 13/12/2007 18:54:26
Originally by: The Dokter
5. Remove level 4 agents from high sec and place them all in low sec, this would make the risk reward situation better.
Hopefully some devs will read this thread and make some changes.
You hear this suggestion a lot, and it's a really stupid and ******** suggestion. "Make the risk reward situation better"? Uh...wtf lol? No it wouldn't. It's an old stupid and tired debate that ended years ago, and you lost.
By the way, I'm not using the ad hominems to refute your arguments. I'm using them to indicate you're stupid for having used them.
More space probably makes sense, and there should be more access to the space there is -- there are too many bottlenecks and chokepoints, especially from empire to 0.0. More access would do more to spread people around, which is a good thing.
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Nomme
Mugen Shipyards
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Posted - 2007.12.13 19:24:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Nomme on 13/12/2007 19:25:55 I would settle for an outer rim with no flipping map data,local,no outposts,and no POS. Unconquerable <-0.0. ..but with Treats
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R0ger Wilco
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.12.13 19:50:00 -
[201]
Nice topic ^^
I dont think we need more space I think the current 0.0 space needs to be revised.
Improve some of the sec rating of lesser quality 0.0 systems: What is the point of fighting over a 0.01 system? when you make more money and run near 0 risk in empire?
Change rat spawns:
It's 0.0 for crying out loud, I find it wrong that you can tank a 0.0 spawn in a mining barge and carry on mining, make it more interesting please, even if you nerf the bounties abit warping in to a belt of 4 BS 6 cruiser and 10+ frigs would actaully scare me and make ratting more exiting, rewarding and more fun.
I like the idea about taxing people with ratting in your sov space.
What about capital ship spawns in belts, not with overpowered bounties though.
We dont need more 0.0 space we need to improve the current 0.0 space so its worth fighting over 
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vache
THE IRIS
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Posted - 2007.12.13 22:09:00 -
[202]
Jove space should be opened as new high sec space, kinda like empire, and then on the other side of it, open up like another 2500 star systems or whatever. Now that would make things interesting! 
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frank frank
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.14 00:20:00 -
[203]
If you could find me more space, I really could use a place to put my space-entertainment center.
Maybe a nice space love seat too.
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Zenethalos
White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2007.12.14 08:05:00 -
[204]
After a few beers and reading this thread yet again I have a short and simple idea. Each 0.0 space is assigned a value of -0.03 to -1.0 and they are static. Why are they static, why do the bands of rats we keep shooting keep comming back to the same location everyday after DT. We have spawn tables for each true status per system that change the value of the spawn (help me if i'm wrong) why not have dynamic true sec status' so that farmers cant keep going to the same place everday to wh*re isk and marauding gangs cant keep going to the same ratting hub over and over.
The way I see it is in the region in which myself and my alliance reside in consists of roughly 50 systems, and 6-7 suitable ratting systems. Now these same systems are so clustered everday by atleast 5 people to a system with 10+belts that making isk is scarce because the first to log on is the first to get it and have his buddies tag along. Why not make it so its hit or miss with ratting.
In My opinion this would make it worth hold those 30+systems out of the 50 that are not claimed because on any given day a system claimed by you has about a 12% chance of getting a feasable ratting system (0.45+).
This is just a thought as people seem bent on either expanding the universe or repopulation the crappy systems with a higher status. It would also put a larger logistical tax on the mega alliances if they wanted to claim these now sh*thole area's they dont bother putting towers up in if they want to be able to put their tag on the space and tax it.
Just my not so sobre idea.
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Anglo
Minmatar Astral Mexicans
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Posted - 2007.12.14 09:50:00 -
[205]
i always said that the eve univers should be MUCH larger.. soem are saying that 00 is underpopulated.. that might be true, but why arent those alliances wich are out there alow people to go there then WITHOUT being in there alliance. nowadays you cant enter a 04 system without facing gankers at the gates, and into 00 the alliances hold a foot with bubles etc... im not saying that we need more space. i think we do however. to get the feelign back of being lost somewhere.. BUT i would highly sugest taht ccp adds wormhole into the game... and new wormhole travel skill... maybe also a find wormhole skill..
the wormhole should be in empire... prefared 05-09 systems.. and would leed directly to deep 00... once u located a wormhole it will be there for 1 week. after 1 week you will have to relocate it again..
by doing this u would alow for alot of things to happend...
sneek atacks on alliances..
NON alliance players to go rat in 00
etc..
atm its all just about who can muster the greater fleet... i know ccp did somehting like this with black ops.. but i think there could be done more.. and if alliances know that people will go for wormholes.. maybe a litlle of the lamer blobing will go away..
pvp in eve today isent really pvp... we have blobs and suicide gankers.. and thats about it... only a few do real pvp... wich isent really done with 100 menn capital gangs... or 100 menn t2 crafts...
so make some wormholes damnit...
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olzi
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.14 13:26:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Anglo i always said that the eve univers should be MUCH larger.. soem are saying that 00 is underpopulated.. that might be true, but why arent those alliances wich are out there alow people to go there then WITHOUT being in there alliance.
There are dozens of alliances that let smaller outsider groups use their space, as long as they contribute something to the alliance, be it capitals, production or just isk. If you can't give back to the alliance, all you are is extra baggage and a wasted standings slot.
Quote:
nowadays you cant enter a 04 system without facing gankers at the gates, and into 00 the alliances hold a foot with bubles etc... im not saying that we need more space. i think we do however. to get the feelign back of being lost somewhere..
BUT i would highly sugest taht ccp adds wormhole into the game... and new wormhole travel skill... maybe also a find wormhole skill..
the wormhole should be in empire... prefared 05-09 systems.. and would leed directly to deep 00... once u located a wormhole it will be there for 1 week. after 1 week you will have to relocate it again..
by doing this u would alow for alot of things to happend...
sneek atacks on alliances..
NON alliance players to go rat in 00
etc..
Thinking that more 0.0 systems, or direct links from highsec to deep 0.0 would create any kind of security for empire pubbies to reap the benefits of 0.0 is just plain stupid. Any kind of existance in 0.0 is always based on the ability to defend the area. I can't think of anything that would attract more gankers than a "wormhole" directly connecting highsecurity area to a no-security area, allowing easy ganks in the conveniency of their own backyards.
0.0 isn't meant for individual players, its for the biggest and strongest, and frankly your post reeks of trying to bend the rules of the game around your ability to only make it in highsec.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.12.14 13:29:00 -
[207]
Imo:
Remove jump bridges. No more controlling huge areas of empty space with easy logistics.
More access points into 0.0.
This would go a long way towards solving the current problems. I can't believe they put jump bridges into Eve. It is like the Plane of Knowledge in Everquest 1, worst idea ever.
Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Volition Cult |

Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.12.14 18:44:00 -
[208]
There are plenty of ways to get into and out of 0.0, but they involve working with an Alliance. And what's wrong with that? If you're not going to be part of an Alliance, you're a freeloading tresspasser. The whole idea of 0.0 is that it is a place where players can make their own Empires. Why should there be areas open to everyone?
As a person responsible for building our alliance out of virtually nothing (Drone Regions were your perfect empty space), I know the amount of work done to create the infrastructure and the work done to maintain it. There is no argument anyone can make which gives them the right to enrich themselves by using that infrastructure for free. I really like taxing people who rat in our soverign space. I like that alot.
If the issue is that there is not sufficient space for someone else to try the same thing our alliance has accomplished, then I can see adding more space. But if someone just wants more empty systems so that they can rat/mine without paying anything to do so, then I think they just want to be leeches. Join an alliance and make use of all those unused systems, fight an alliance and make them retreat from that space, or try underground ratting/Mining ops and accept being hunted.
BTW: Adding more access points to 0.0 has already been done. CCP moved chokepoints deeper into 0.0 instead at the low-sec entrances. That did not result in a flood of people into 0.0
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Hitme Harder
HERRO KITTY
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Posted - 2007.12.14 19:16:00 -
[209]
Eve would have to be a different kinda game for more space to make a difference.
Something with zone control with elements like those in the tournaments that force some kind of competitive fairness into holding space.
With megablobs and super-high SP nanofleet alliances, more spaces would just be gobbled up by the current alliances. ________________________ Is that the best you can do?! |

Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.14 21:01:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Janu Hull on 14/12/2007 21:01:49
Originally by: Maladora
Originally by: FOFOFOF
- Anchor sentries at 0.0 gates
Whats the argument behind not having that?
Consider 0.0 with a deathstar at every doorstep coming from both directions.
Lets face it, to secure sovreignty, its already a spam war with POSes, and there are a LOT more moons than there are jumpgates in any given system.
You think its a pain in the ********* breaking sovreignty now, wait until your cyno ships are wtfpwnt on entry and battleship fleets are decimated before they can secure a "beach head" in a target system.
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Kalamurii Izanthor
Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:45:00 -
[211]
Soemone had the ide of opening up Jove space and having 2,500 systems on the other side of it. I have a better ide, why not have the other EVE cluster on the other side of it? You know, the one in China, that would be fun :) (laggy, but fun)
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laotse
The Flying Dutchmen Antesignani Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.15 02:04:00 -
[212]
we need much more space so we dont bump in each other flying   al those full carriers http://80.126.192.128:8888/tfd/uploads/1121735338/gallery_11_8_1124480365.jpg
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes |

OneSHotKillah
Minmatar Warrior Nation United SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.15 09:43:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Snowden Vel I like the dynamic truesec idea and a few of the other ones that have been broached in here but a lot of the most drastic complaints come from people who basically want something for nothing. In 0.0 EVE is at its best because of the military and diplomatic imperatives that come with holding space. There should not be enough space to keep everyone happy. What's the point of competing if there are no winners and losers?
I totally agree. Sorry to break it to the OP but maybe 0.0 isnt your cup of tea. they could double the size of the eve universe. and there will always be *******s like me who will get their rocks off ruining your day... no matter how far from empire you may be. yarr
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