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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:20:00 -
[1]
Hi,
Just had a thought after seeing the alt post of "POS wars or NO".
My opinion is that back in the day alot of things were made fun because of the isolation we used to have. We now have 40k people in the space we used to fit 5k.
Even with all the POS stuff and their associated wars would eve feel more like the old days if we added another bunch of regions beyond the existing ones?
More empty space, more distace to travel, less blobs?
Does it take that much more processing power in the server clusters to make more regions available?
What does everyone think?
Bigger sandpit makes better corp and alliance level play? Yes or No?
Your opinions welcome.
Thanks,
Taur
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Adamantium Beams
Section XIII
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:22:00 -
[2]
We only need less ppl and more money
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PMolkenthin
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:24:00 -
[3]
Im not exactly an old school player, but I do remember > 10k players on TQ. 
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Jacob Castillo
Caldari
Copperhead Inc.
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:27:00 -
[4]
Massively reduce alliance sizes, and the size of the space they hold. I'd imagine that this would also effect gang sizes too, so you'd be killing a few problems at once. Somehow...
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Wraith foc
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:29:00 -
[5]
Wasnt 1 of the reasons for outposts to make more of 0.0 useful.. and still large numbers of systems arent being used.
I'm not even sure the premise that distance would be a great factor, is correct.. groups just relocate for weeks or months to operate in far away regions.. because of POS warfare they have days to relocate back if someone actually attacked their stations..
It might make hunting NPC'ers easier, as they would be more spread, but that is about it..
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Morris Falter
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:31:00 -
[6]
Wasn't this brought up already?
Basically was a toss up between having lots of 0.0 space undeveloped (which it is at the moment) or more space for gigantic power blocs to go conquer, which again unless you're really careful, become inhabitated by substandard corps providing little to no sport, and just farming their belts all day.
More space = part of the solution. More opportunities for smaller groups to be able to make a spot for themselves without the fear of the blob would be nice too.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:34:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 22/11/2007 16:34:49
Increase the difficulties of logistics and maintainance and alliances will automatically shrink because they will become too bored with fueling pos and logistics and all. Therefore Eve will feel bigger again.
Nerf carriers as haulers and increase the costs of jumpbrige usage... oh wait!
But anyway, more space is really necesary! Especially because new players have no chance to gather good moons for moon mining. All in the hands of the big alliances.
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Ohne
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:34:00 -
[8]
0.0 is empty tbh...
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Nebuchadnezzar I
Art of War
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:44:00 -
[9]
Nerfing logistics is definately a way, but again i wouldnt underestimate the ability of large groups to still manage huge logistics just fine and so it would just be something generally annoying everyone more.
Jumpbridges as they are atm is a joke really.
I dont know if more space is needed, loads of systems unused around - i fear for the day 0.0 is plastered with outposts, it just wont be the same.
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Lowanaera
Amarr
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:51:00 -
[10]
There's more than enough space to accommodate more people. A 1000-1500 person alliance can live pretty comfortably in a single region, and there are plenty of alliances with far lower density than that.
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Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:53:00 -
[11]
Hi,
Nice replies so far.
Alot of people say that 0.0 space is empty just now. I don't see this as so.
3 years or more ago you could call it empty without an outpost within 5 jumps from you whatever region you are in and a tenth of the people in the same space.
Thanks for the replies so far, keep it up.
Taur
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Aprudena Gist
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:56:00 -
[12]
it would be nice to have my own ratting system.
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Louis DelaBlanche
Cosmic Odyssey
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:02:00 -
[13]
Theres pleanty of empty space around atm. Alot of alliances/corps tend to "live" out of a few of the best systems/constellation in a region, leaving the rest for those ppl who want a system of their own to rat in at the risk of much less security from corp/allymates. Adding more space wont mean ppl spread out, it just mean more focused clusters of ppl surrounded by empty systems.
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:05:00 -
[14]
TBH, more of the problem is that lowsec ores are less valuable than highsec ores, as are 'bad' 0.0 ores. Not to mention the content available in those regions. There needs to be a boost so that lowsec space is worth more than highsec, and 'bad' 0.0 space is worth more than low/highsec. Then those areas can become more populated rather than totally neglected because they have all the disadvantages 0.0 and none of the advantages.
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Gungankllr
Caldari
Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:07:00 -
[15]
0.0 only seems full because of the way territorial soverignity works.
if you have an alt drive through 0.0 you'll see that there's a great many systems out there with nobody or nothing in them, but if you look at the map and check colored dots it appears to be more crowded than it actually is.
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Gard Stardust
Gallente
Pringles Inc.
STYX.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:07:00 -
[16]
Actually Ohne is right, 0.0 is underpopulated.
There is plenty of open space which is only being used by some isk farmers here and there occasionally.
Maybe part of the reason is, that living out of a POS is too complicated - Refining and Reprocessing and storing ships and modules should eventually be made more easy.
Eventually there are also too few choke points, that lead into 0.0.
The introduction of jump bridges doesnt help with populating systems, too - in my opinion they are a bad idea, as alliance can claim more space with smaller numbers...
All this leads to having only NPC stations / Outpost - systems and choke points having some kind of dense population.
The introducing of the Rorqual might finally bring people into more remote systems.
I think that the mothership could eventually be improved by giving it a role as a mobile base, too. Maybe like the Mothership in the game "homeworld" it should also be given the possibility to produce (maybe only up to battlecruiser size) and research, both with special modules for the mothership. Together with a POS and a Rorqual single corps could easily claim remote systems and base their operations from there.
The carrier and the mothership should be able to jump with docked pilots, so that they can bring troops behind enemy lines (i think a single carrier can jump 7 assembled cruiser sized vessels).
Thats my 2 cents...
but maybe this rather belongs to the game development part of this forum,
Gard Stardust
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FOFOFOF
CRAPSTORM
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:08:00 -
[17]
space is fine...
what would improve the game imhfo:
- Support for fleet battles (like 200x200 without desynch and stuff)
- Inflation control.
what i dream of:
- Automated mining (i hate to do repetitive stuff)
- Anchor sentries at 0.0 gates
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Lowa
Gallente
North Star Networks
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:12:00 -
[18]
More space...yes...a little maybe. But what is more needed is imho changing the way you control space.
I hate POS. I see why they are needed but I still hate them. It forces people into
one system to fight over it and we all know what happens when 500+ people duke it out.
Sometimes I honestly wish we were back when conqurable stations were the only thing.
If you wanted to keep that, you need to back it up. And it was (almost) always possible
to take it back if you lost it.
Not that it did or would solve the gigantic single-system-gangbangs we are used to know
when taking down strategic targets but...
Station ping-pong was boring for sure but honestly, isnt knocking down 40 POS's and having
to errect (yes, I did say it) 40 of your own a helluva lot more boring?
Might be drifting of topic here I admit, but POS's are one of the reasons I think
this EVE War is going to...stop. Who in their right mind would like to keep up something
so mindnumbing as POS's spam, POS warfare, POS managing at the level needed for another year?
And pay real $ for it?
Need more space? No, better utilization of it. And the possibility to destroy OP's. Its getting crowded out there. 
Aww...heck. Dont listen to me, I'm old, grumpy and I've waited 20 mins to pass teh Entering Game
for Trinity testserver. I dont make any sense, I can feel it.
Cheers,
Lowa
What if the truth was something else? |
Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:13:00 -
[19]
 Originally by: Gard Stardust
Actually Ohne is right, 0.0 is underpopulated.
There is plenty of open space which is only being used by some isk farmers here and there occasionally.
Maybe part of the reason is, that living out of a POS is too complicated - Refining and Reprocessing and storing ships and modules should eventually be made more easy.
Eventually there are also too few choke points, that lead into 0.0.
The introduction of jump bridges doesnt help with populating systems, too - in my opinion they are a bad idea, as alliance can claim more space with smaller numbers...
All this leads to having only NPC stations / Outpost - systems and choke points having some kind of dense population.
The introducing of the Rorqual might finally bring people into more remote systems.
I think that the mothership could eventually be improved by giving it a role as a mobile base, too. Maybe like the Mothership in the game "homeworld" it should also be given the possibility to produce (maybe only up to battlecruiser size) and research, both with special modules for the mothership. Together with a POS and a Rorqual single corps could easily claim remote systems and base their operations from there.
The carrier and the mothership should be able to jump with docked pilots, so that they can bring troops behind enemy lines (i think a single carrier can jump 7 assembled cruiser sized vessels).
Thats my 2 cents...
but maybe this rather belongs to the game development part of this forum,
Gard Stardust
some pretty nice ideas in there.
Keep it up peeps, good discussion overall, even though most of you are disagreeing with me.
Best Regards,
Taur
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:15:00 -
[20]
More space for crap alliances to surrender at the first hint of trouble? No thanks.
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ardik
TunkbwahCorp
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:15:00 -
[21]
CCP need to fix the -0.01 true sec systems that barely spawn kernite, those systems are just a waste of space.
More space? No thanks, i like to occasionally see other people in MMOs.
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Niedar
MASS
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:17:00 -
[22]
Allow the destruction of outposts and all will be good ;0
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awebon
Minmatar
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Niedar
Allow the destruction of outposts and all will be good ;0
this is perfect...
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JabJabVVV
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ohne
0.0 is empty
QFT.
Blobs are not caused by space size but by game play mechanics, as an additional comment: blobs aren't bad. epic fleet battles are, infact... epic. However they are perceived as bad again because of poor game mechanics.
In short the problem is not the amount of space or the density of population it's the ****ty fleet warfare system: infinitely large, homogeneous blob with infinitely small diameter being the optimum fleet setup, combined with no LOS, electronic interference, no damage stacking etc. etc. (and of course lag) leads to boring gameplay and whining.
More space = bad idea. It's not the cause of the problems and less space breeds conflict and conflict = fun.
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When I was a n00b, I spake as a n00b, I understood as a n00b, I thought as a n00b: but when I became pr0, I put away n00bish things. |
Kvarium Ki
Legion Du Lys
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:48:00 -
[25]
If you open more space people allready in 0.0 aren't going to move there. 0.0 will not get less crowded, empire will.
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Tiberius Decius
Daedalus Initiative
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:54:00 -
[26]
If the server could handle 200 vs 200 man fights alot of the problems would be solved. At least then you could take out the opposing force and then kill the pos's. Instead of 1 battle taking course over and hour or more just due to lag. If it was a no lag fight the battle would be over in less then 10 mins, with one side getting victory and then easily moving on to kill POS's
Ive seen Pos's go down in 20mins or less with a few dreads on them, tbh thats not to bad
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Graalum
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.22 17:59:00 -
[27]
/me remembers back to the good old days when his corp had a great 0.0 constellation all to itself and geminate felt like the wild west. Ah the good old days.
anyways, agree with one point thats already been made: the rewards of great 0.0 space need to be increased a little bit, the rewards of good 0.0 space need to be increased alot, and the the rewards of crap 0.0 space need to be increased dramatically. Also it might be cool if guristas, thukker tribe, and maybe a few others would scatter a couple more npc stations around their space. a station in the nrael pipe for instance would be cool for some piraty types i bet.
Your signature graphic must reflect your ingame persona as per The Forum rules - Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |
Taurequis
Waylander 01
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Posted - 2007.11.22 18:04:00 -
[28]
Hi,
Do we have any dev blogs breaking down people living and working in 0.0 vs empire space?
Or even a post roughly showing the isk/per hour breakdown of say npc'ing vs high sec mining, vs empire missioning etc?
I think that would lead the discussion on a bit since alot of the posts are indicating the issue with 0.0 not being lack of space, more lack of workable and useful space...
Thanks,
Taur
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Howling Jinn
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 18:06:00 -
[29]
theres too much crappy 0.0
deep regions like cache, paragon soul, period basis with tons of ****ty true security.
which means everyone wants that same constellation, and nobody wants the rest of the region.
those regions are just an example.
maybe im naive, but i thought regions which was +30 jumps from empire would have tons of nice true sec.
i however wouldnt mind having alot more regions come into the game. my view is that way back when i started, alot of the map felt uncharted(sp?). when going deeper one felt like an explorer.
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TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2007.11.22 18:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Edited by: Gnulpie on 22/11/2007 16:34:49
Increase the difficulties of logistics and maintainance and alliances will automatically shrink because they will become too bored with fueling pos and logistics and all. Therefore Eve will feel bigger again.
Nerf carriers as haulers and increase the costs of jumpbrige usage... oh wait!
But anyway, more space is really necesary! Especially because new players have no chance to gather good moons for moon mining. All in the hands of the big alliances.
Sad, but rorqual and jump freighters will eventually(in... 1-3 months) make the carrier nerf obsolete.
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