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LordVodka Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.24 12:17:00 - [1] Edited by: LordVodka on 24/11/2007 12:21:35 So, the race that has sucked at pvp for well over a year finally is getting a boost. I've heard quotes saying, 'im telling you man, its "Caldari Online" again.' Is this so far from the truth? Well when we begin to analyze the new changes the first and most welcome change comes to my mind. Torps! They are bigger, they are meaner, and well balanced . The torp changes for Trinity are fantastic in my opinion. Caldari now have a ship to get in close and slug it out with. The next biggest ship that comes to mind for me is the Onyx, Now i find the of the Heavy dicter to be quite cool. Coming from pirate roots I'm happy to see a ship that can catch isk farmers that get past our grips every day, and a way to kill WANNA BE's in Nyx's who sit on the nonni gate and smartbomb any little frig that comes by with minimal risk to there ships at worst for them. Back to the Onyx though, the ship it self has no major key advantage over the other 3 heavy interdicters, it's shield tanking in general with the slot layout of the Onyx that does. Let's face it Passive tanking has been nerfed, but for once it wasn't nerfed to the extent that it should of been. If one is to get on EFT and fit a optimal t2 fit passive drake with rigs they will find it can tank damn near 1000 dps. Well let's look at battleships, they can easily do this right??? A few can such as the Abaddon which can get about a 1200 dps tank if it uses autocannons to preserve cap, the Hyperion can get around a 1000 dps tank, the armageddon, and 7 low slot bs's can all get in the mid 800's or so rigged. Well let us look at the other BC's the myrm will get about a 400 dps tank, and the harb and cane 300's if your lucky. Not only can the Drake tnak more dps then the other bc's but it has a much larger hp buffer which gives him a longer time to get friendly support on him, something armor tanking BC's won't get in a fight with over 5 people per side likely. The idea of your shields recharging passively is a cool idea, but there is no reason to explain why shield that require no energy will recharge much much better then the shields that are taking all of a ships capacitor to regain. By this point I have a couple hundred carebear drake pilots up in flames, WE CAN'T DO DPS SO WE NEED TANK!!!!!. Once again we go back to our reliable EFT where one will find the drake is right on par with the harb and cane, if the drake pilot is to fit HAM II, he is quite capable of reaching in hte mid 500 dps area, running 2 t2 bcu's, and he can do this with a tank that is no worse then the avg tank on a cane and harb about 150-240 dps. The next changes are the changes to the scorpion and blackbird, I myself have had quite a bit of expieriance with post nerf ecm, I got a caldari character after revelations and had him for about 4 months. To drop a scorpion in a fight I could easily remove 3 bs's from a fight, and ofc as each of them would die at somepoint another ship after, in so doing shutting off a higher percentage of there gang with each kill. Now I see the changes that are to improve the jamming strength of a scorp and I ask myself should it really be able to knock 4 ships outa a fight? "It's primary you noob!" Well if you have any idea what your doing in a ecm ship your gonan be well outa range of most of the action (the ship can jam at max tareting range if you know what your doing) So therefore the ship itself wont be taking many blows and likely doesnt need the ecm jam strength bonus. The BB on the other hand, being able to fit much less ecm, jam at less distance cause of slot layouts and likelyhood of rigging a t1 cruiser, and also cap sustainability gets a welcome change with a ecm strength bonus that is much deserved by the ship, and leaves caldari with a good support ship for cruisers. If you made it to the end of this I'd like to thank you for your time, and ya NERF PASSIVE TANKING WHOOT! O, on a side note, nerf moros drone dps .
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.11.24 12:24:00 - [2] ermm...okay. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.24 13:13:00 - [3] Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:15:10 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:13:36 after patch: fully rigged myrm: 543 dps dealt/511 dps tanked fully rigged drake: 339kin/299 other dps dealt/967 dps tanked. (with cn missiles) so tell me.. how am i supposed to kill a myrm in my drake?:)
ThaDollaGenerale R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2007.11.24 13:21:00 - [4] You killed me a couple of times. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Troye Gallente Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.24 13:40:00 - [5] Originally by: d026 after patch: fully rigged myrm: 543 dps dealt/511 dps tanked fully rigged drake: 339kin/299 other dps dealt/967 dps tanked. (with cn missiles) so tell me.. how am i supposed to kill a myrm in my drake?:) Someones been playing around too much with quick fit again... _______________________________________________ http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=618279
Roygul	Posted - 2007.11.24 13:46:00 - [6] Hows the Myr to kill the drake :)
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.24 13:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Roygul Hows the Myr to kill the drake :) see none can kill the other.. quite balanced aint it<?:)
Solant Minmatar Ventis Secundis R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.24 14:03:00 - [8] good luck reliably jamming 3 bs in a scorp, OP.
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.11.24 18:10:00 - [9] LoL 1stly try fit sustainable tank on drake and make him do more DPS, you can do only one of it and only tank is in whitch drake is good. Good passive tank on drake mean you fit 3 shieldregen rigs, 2-3 shield regen mods in lows and hardeners in midle. At that point you have barely enough powergrid to fit just normal heavy missiles, no way (except you wana use some expensive implants). And also at that point your sig looks like christmas tree so big guns realy hurt. And by the way Myrm not suposed to be shieldtanker and can heavily outdps drake due guns having more damage and also having huge drone cargo and huge drone bonuses. And ofcourse total hitpoints on myrmi is also greater.
NoNah Tenth Legion Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.24 18:18:00 - [10] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:15:10 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:13:36 after patch: fully rigged myrm: 543 dps dealt/511 dps tanked fully rigged drake: 339kin/299 other dps dealt/967 dps tanked. (with cn missiles) so tell me.. how am i supposed to kill a myrm in my drake?:) With those numbers...(Not sure how you get them at all tbh) 2 Myrmids: 1086 dps/511 dps tanked 2 Drakes 678 dps/967 dps tanked. so... the Drakes breach the myrm tank at a rate of 167 dps, and the myrmids breach the drake tank at a rate of 109 dps. And the Drakes got helluvalot more buffert? And the myrmid can get their dps nullified and countered. Postcount: 591308
Bahubali	Posted - 2007.11.24 18:26:00 - [11] huh what are you guys discussing it here, same thing flamed to dust thousands time before, move on.
Edriahn Gallente Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2007.11.24 18:39:00 - [12] Ehy don't ya try some real ship setups, not the EFT "monsters"? Or you really flyr shield tanked myrmis and drakes without MWD, web, cap injecor,warp scrambler...? Get real for a moment, battlecruisers shine in small gangs, where you are really gonna need these modules...
Ararius EP0CH Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.24 19:58:00 - [13] Hint, hes actually starting a wine on the Onyx (that a alliance member was testing out on sis the other day.... Tanking a Gank Cane, Abso, and Mega ftl) But then basing that as an argument on passive tanks (that are quite good right now, at least on the Onyx) Then he goes on to saying how much hes liking the new ECM changes ;D Im ugly, just look at my face!
Eardianm Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:18:00 - [14] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:15:10 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:13:36 after patch: fully rigged myrm: 543 dps dealt/511 dps tanked fully rigged drake: 339kin/299 other dps dealt/967 dps tanked. (with cn missiles) so tell me.. how am i supposed to kill a myrm in my drake?:) Use HAMs --------------
TimMc Skiddies of Doom	Posted - 2007.11.24 21:50:00 - [15] Edited by: TimMc on 24/11/2007 21:50:04 Originally by: Eardianm Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:15:10 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:13:36 after patch: fully rigged myrm: 543 dps dealt/511 dps tanked fully rigged drake: 339kin/299 other dps dealt/967 dps tanked. (with cn missiles) so tell me.. how am i supposed to kill a myrm in my drake?:) Use HAMs Yep, then the Drake becomes even more obviously the most overpowered battlecruiser. There is a reason why most people ignore drakes unless you have 2 battleships.
ArtemisEntreri TALON'S GRIP	Posted - 2007.11.25 00:48:00 - [16] Originally by: TimMc Edited by: TimMc on 24/11/2007 21:50:04 Originally by: Eardianm Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:15:10 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:13:36 after patch: fully rigged myrm: 543 dps dealt/511 dps tanked fully rigged drake: 339kin/299 other dps dealt/967 dps tanked. (with cn missiles) so tell me.. how am i supposed to kill a myrm in my drake?:) Use HAMs Yep, then the Drake becomes even more obviously the most overpowered battlecruiser. There is a reason why most people ignore drakes unless you have 2 battleships. you can't fit a passive tank with hams, they take ridiculous grid and you can only fit like 1 large shield extender if you fit them
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.25 00:54:00 - [17] TBH, boost the Drake's powergrid so that it can actually fit an active tank with only a single fitting mod. Then stacking nerf shield recharge. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:00:00 - [18] Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, boost the Drake's powergrid so that it can actually fit an active tank with only a single fitting mod. Then stacking nerf shield recharge. Liang Drakes regen was already nerfed. I dont know what everyone have against darake, yes its probably best pasive shieldtank but thats all, his DPS sux and fiting any pvp stuff on pasive tank is almost mission imposible without screwing his pasive tank greatly.
LordVodka Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:05:00 - [19] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:15:10 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:13:36 after patch: fully rigged myrm: 543 dps dealt/511 dps tanked fully rigged drake: 339kin/299 other dps dealt/967 dps tanked. (with cn missiles) so tell me.. how am i supposed to kill a myrm in my drake?:) I once heard of this module called of a "large shield booster II" it's a secret so don't let it get out.... but it allows you to fit another module "ballistic control unit II" opposed to SPR II.
LordVodka Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:07:00 - [20] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:15:10 Edited by: d026 on 24/11/2007 13:13:36 after patch: fully rigged myrm: 543 dps dealt/511 dps tanked fully rigged drake: 339kin/299 other dps dealt/967 dps tanked. (with cn missiles) so tell me.. how am i supposed to kill a myrm in my drake?:) With those numbers...(Not sure how you get them at all tbh) 2 Myrmids: 1086 dps/511 dps tanked 2 Drakes 678 dps/967 dps tanked. so... the Drakes breach the myrm tank at a rate of 167 dps, and the myrmids breach the drake tank at a rate of 109 dps. And the Drakes got helluvalot more buffert? And the myrmid can get their dps nullified and countered. Ya I REALLY want to see a 1086 dps myrm, with a 511 tank what are you fitting hte best officer LOL.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Elain Reverse Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, boost the Drake's powergrid so that it can actually fit an active tank with only a single fitting mod. Then stacking nerf shield recharge. Liang Drakes regen was already nerfed. I dont know what everyone have against darake, yes its probably best pasive shieldtank but thats all, his DPS sux and fiting any pvp stuff on pasive tank is almost mission imposible without screwing his pasive tank greatly. Yes, I know that the Drake's regen was nerfed. I was flying one at the time (and still do, tbh). It does have the best passive shield tank (if you have BC5). It's DPS does "suck", but that's because you're not fitting damage mods. The fits that everyone compares it to ARE fitting damage mods. You decide why you're not dealing out damage. Now, since you were so kind as to say its "mission impossible": 7 Arby HML (CN Scourge) 10mn MWD II, 2x LSE II, 2x Invuln II, Warp disruptor II 3x BCU II, DCU II 1x Purger, 2x Extender Rigs 470 DPS, 100k Eff HP, 212 regen (you can tank a full flight of drones), and you can run everything for 3 minutes. You probably do not need to run your MWD that long... just saying. 7x HAM II (CN Terror Assault) 10mn MWD II, LSE II, Sensor Booster II, Invuln II, Fleeting web, Warp Disruptor II 3x BCU II, DCU II 2x Hydraulic Bay Thruster, ACR 618 DPS (yay, I can EFT tooo!), same situation as above, but the idea is to get in close and melt their brains from ZERO meters (yes, zero). Just a few ideas. The problem is that you don't have the PG to do anything without two fitting mods. The solution? Boost the Drake's PG (so that you're not "down" to slots), and then nerf passive shield tanking. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
LordVodka Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:09:00 - [22] Edited by: LordVodka on 25/11/2007 01:12:10 Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, boost the Drake's powergrid so that it can actually fit an active tank with only a single fitting mod. Then stacking nerf shield recharge. Liang Try a skill I like to call AWU. I have fit the ship and it works without fitting mods. Max your cpu skills and get AWU to 4, or 5. In the end a trade off for a powergrid boost and a serious passive tank nerf is acceptable. I would be more then willing to see this come about.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:12:00 - [23] Originally by: LordVodka Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, boost the Drake's powergrid so that it can actually fit an active tank with only a single fitting mod. Then stacking nerf shield recharge. Liang Try a skill I like to call AWU. I have fit the ship and it works without fitting mods. Max your cpu skills and get AWU to 4, or 5. Actually, I have AWU4 - you simply cannot fit a T2 ACTIVE TANK on a Drake without two fitting mods. Try it - I had a 4 page thread about it about 3 weeks ago. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:12:00 - [24] Originally by: LordVodka Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, boost the Drake's powergrid so that it can actually fit an active tank with only a single fitting mod. Then stacking nerf shield recharge. Liang Try a skill I like to call AWU. I have fit the ship and it works without fitting mods. Max your cpu skills and get AWU to 4, or 5. That requires putting more SP into gunnery then missile hoes are willing to do. IOI - Earned In Blood
Kelsenn Amarr EP0CH	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:24:00 - [25] He's complaining about passive tanked Onyx, it's insane how much damage it can take. It's not designed to deal damage, we know that, but it still gets the heavy dictor skills, which makes it more than useful. It tanked my Absolution, a hurricane, and a megathron far too long for a cruiser, even a t2 with full t2 tank. It's TOO good of a tank, no one will be able to kill a heavy dictor unless they drop at least 2 BS's on it. Also, complaining about the ECM bonus to the Scorpion, it can already jam pretty well, and a smart pilot shouldn't be close enough to get caught easily, the BB needs it, the Scorp doesn't need much. The BC argument shouldn't need to be clarified at all. If you've ever stepped out of high sec to PvP you know what they're like. #1. Onyx passive tank is more than most BS's can muster without becoming completely useless. #2. Scorpion doesn't need much of an ECM boost, it's a nice ship, with a nice pilot, it's plenty useful and more than deadly. #3. **** Drakes.
LordVodka Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:30:00 - [26] Hmm I actually forgot alot of my key points on the Oynx... but here's the problem with the ship let's assume were in EC- of pureblind, people should know it last i checked theres more km's there then from any system in eve.. Your sitting there with your gatecamp and you pop your bubble while sitting on the gate, opposing small gang jumps in... They need to move some stuff through the gate... So over course take down the onyx well this onyx is going to absorb about 150K- 550K damage before going down from what i been seeing on Sisi. The key issue is though after absoring an immense amount of dps the oynx is just gonna click jump and leave. During this entire time your going to have to deal with whatever else was in this guys gang, and then after the onyx docks to recharge shields he'll be right back on the gate bubbling you in again. I just think that the passive shield tank gives him to much of a carefree world when gatecamping...
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:36:00 - [27] Originally by: Idaeus Originally by: LordVodka Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, boost the Drake's powergrid so that it can actually fit an active tank with only a single fitting mod. Then stacking nerf shield recharge. Liang Try a skill I like to call AWU. I have fit the ship and it works without fitting mods. Max your cpu skills and get AWU to 4, or 5. That requires putting more SP into gunnery then missile hoes are willing to do. You simply don't know what you're talking about, kthx. I HAVE awu4. If I thought AWU5 would get me a T2 active shield tank on my Drake, I'd GLADLY train it. But you're too busy saying "omg nerf erfn ernfn enrfn ernerndfnerfnefnernf" that you don't realize I'm saying "Yeah, the passive tank is overpowered, but at least let it keep a reasonable ACTIVE TANK". Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
LordVodka Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Idaeus Originally by: LordVodka Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, boost the Drake's powergrid so that it can actually fit an active tank with only a single fitting mod. Then stacking nerf shield recharge. Liang Try a skill I like to call AWU. I have fit the ship and it works without fitting mods. Max your cpu skills and get AWU to 4, or 5. That requires putting more SP into gunnery then missile hoes are willing to do. You simply don't know what you're talking about, kthx. I HAVE awu4. If I thought AWU5 would get me a T2 active shield tank on my Drake, I'd GLADLY train it. But you're too busy saying "omg nerf erfn ernfn enrfn ernerndfnerfnefnernf" that you don't realize I'm saying "Yeah, the passive tank is overpowered, but at least let it keep a reasonable ACTIVE TANK". Liang You have no idea what your talking about I just agreed that a powergrid boost was a moretehn fair trade off for a passive nerf.
Tanis Vaperstrome	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:43:00 - [29] Originally by: LordVodka Hmm I actually forgot alot of my key points on the Oynx... but here's the problem with the ship let's assume were in EC- of pureblind, people should know it last i checked theres more km's there then from any system in eve.. Your sitting there with your gatecamp and you pop your bubble while sitting on the gate, opposing small gang jumps in... They need to move some stuff through the gate... So over course take down the onyx well this onyx is going to absorb about 150K- 550K damage before going down from what i been seeing on Sisi. The key issue is though after absoring an immense amount of dps the oynx is just gonna click jump and leave. During this entire time your going to have to deal with whatever else was in this guys gang, and then after the onyx docks to recharge shields he'll be right back on the gate bubbling you in again. I just think that the passive shield tank gives him to much of a carefree world when gatecamping... My understanding is that bubbles, both dictor and heavy dictor, now cause aggression against every ship it hits and will prevent jumping/docking/etc as any other act would.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:45:00 - [30] Originally by: LordVodka Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Idaeus Originally by: LordVodka Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, boost the Drake's powergrid so that it can actually fit an active tank with only a single fitting mod. Then stacking nerf shield recharge. Liang Try a skill I like to call AWU. I have fit the ship and it works without fitting mods. Max your cpu skills and get AWU to 4, or 5. That requires putting more SP into gunnery then missile hoes are willing to do. You simply don't know what you're talking about, kthx. I HAVE awu4. If I thought AWU5 would get me a T2 active shield tank on my Drake, I'd GLADLY train it. But you're too busy saying "omg nerf erfn ernfn enrfn ernerndfnerfnefnernf" that you don't realize I'm saying "Yeah, the passive tank is overpowered, but at least let it keep a reasonable ACTIVE TANK". Liang You have no idea what your talking about I just agreed that a powergrid boost was a moretehn fair trade off for a passive nerf. Funny, because I didn't quote you. I quoted the other guy (Idaeus). ;-) Yeah, IMO the shield recharge nerf would ** lots of people off, but they'd get over it. You can get most of your tank back by switching to Extender rigs instead of purgers, and limiting yourself to 3 SPR II's. Liang -- Retired forum ***. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?

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