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Multras Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:45:00 - [31] News cameras are more deadly then guns in a war. Thanks to EVE Art Store for the sig.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:48:00 - [32] Originally by: Multras News cameras are more deadly then guns in a war. I remember a few US troops decided to follow this line of thought - they sniped a cameraman in Iraq (British btw) beleiveing it to be a rocket launcher. I thought snipers were supposed to have good vision and recon skills Originally by: N1fty So what your really trying to get at is that the universe is in fact Emo?
Oventoasted Caldari Founder's of the Dominion The Dominion Empire	Posted - 2007.11.25 01:51:00 - [33] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: Multras News cameras are more deadly then guns in a war. I remember a few US troops decided to follow this line of thought - they sniped a cameraman in Iraq (British btw) beleiveing it to be a rocket launcher. I thought snipers were supposed to have good vision and recon skills go to a firing range and check out a sniper rifle. its not that easy to identify stuff in such a small field of view.
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.11.25 02:01:00 - [34] Originally by: Oventoasted nope i'm serious. not saying all news papers and news stations report opinions and BS. i mean hell i see more about celebrities then actual news! the news reports what will get the most views then actually reporting the facts and events. This is a problem with monolithic corporate news entities, not free journalism itself. Freedom of the press is one of the most important things in a democracy. Putting up with tabloids and celebrity nonsense is a very small price to pay.
Sereifex Daku Gemini Sun Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.25 02:04:00 - [35] Speaking of which, I remember when Sky News put a live camera feed in Baghdad during the Iraq war. That was scary. It was like Big brother meets war (vote which building you want to disappear ).
Doctor Fruitloop	Posted - 2007.11.25 02:11:00 - [36] Originally by: Sereifex Daku Speaking of which, I remember when Sky News put a live camera feed in Baghdad during the Iraq war. That was scary. It was like Big brother meets war (vote which building you want to disappear ). Baghdad, this is Davina, flat block number 117 you have been evicted from a vertical position, you have one miniute to consider your remaining time before the cruise missile barrage comes to get you!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.11.25 02:22:00 - [37] Serious response to the OP I would say man-for-man the Israeli military is probably the best. Overall though the US has the best overall military. Israelis may be better per person but they are far fewer, supplied by the US (mostly not self armed) and no blue water navy. The Brits have a fine navy and 1-1 probably equivalent to the US navy but the US navy is FAR larger with better equipment overall (not that the Brits have bad equipment). Really no one, not even the Russians, have a navy to compare to the US. Air force wise Israelis are arguably better but the US has such fantastic support in the guise of AWACS and such they win overall...if just numbers. (Then add in stealth aricraft).
Night Tripper Es and Whizz	Posted - 2007.11.25 02:27:00 - [38] Vietnamese
Oventoasted Caldari Founder's of the Dominion The Dominion Empire	Posted - 2007.11.25 02:35:00 - [39] Edited by: Oventoasted on 25/11/2007 02:35:19 guerilla warfare will always come out on top when the enemy plays by the rules. iraq has and is doing it, Vietnamese did it, french did it in ww2, americans did it in the revolutionary war. only way to stop it i think is genocide or quiting. war isnt fair or nice why do people always think that it should be. either fight to win or dont go to war at all.
digitalwanderer Gallente Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.11.25 03:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Menkaure Multiply this by this, and you probably end up with the US top and thats about it. Really interesting that US has 4.76 soldiers per 1k citizens, whereas China has only 1.71 per 1k citizens (less than even the UK). I presumed that China had a very high ratio of soldiers, but I guess I was wrong, the rest of us are more warlike. Actually, slight revision. Multiply this by this, then divide by this. The budget numbers for china are way off.....45 billion is the stated "official" number,but several sources claim that given the speed at wich their overall military forces are building up over the last few years,45 billion wouldn't be enough to pay for it all just for what they added in 2007 alone...Not even close...Estimates put it closer to 250 billion. The current surface fleet of china is only second to the US,with 76 active ships,a large part of wich are the very latest russian designs....US comes in with 102 ships in total,if you include all their carrier fleet,wich is the only thing the chinese are missing in terms of naval power....Cruisers,destroyers and frigates,as well as a decent sized submarine fleet,they got more than enough to match anybody out there....Add their nuclear and biologic capabilities,huge air force and space access with their own spy satelites,and they are not to be messed with.... Even though their still communist,with no real democracy and human rights violations are known to happen routinely and have weapons of mass destruction,the US doesn't even think about making an issue over it,as they would if this was a much weaker country with a much smaller military doing the exact same things....

Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.25 03:53:00 - [41] The best conventional military is actually far and away the U.S. But if you are talking mach wars, China would beat us due to the fact that our country is so heavily infiltrated by their spy network. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2007.11.25 04:06:00 - [42] USA for best tech weapons UK for best trained and most professional forces in the World. Free Corporation website? click here Trinity Corporate Services Website
Lucius Dracus Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.11.25 04:11:00 - [43] Originally by: northwesten USA for best tech weapons UK for best trained and most professional forces in the World. This.
digitalwanderer Gallente Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.11.25 04:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Sharupak The best conventional military is actually far and away the U.S. But if you are talking mach wars, China would beat us due to the fact that our country is so heavily infiltrated by their spy network. Sorry ....Mach wars?. Don't get me wrong here,the US has the most up to date and modern conventional military there is,but china isn't using Mig 21's or vietnam era T72 tanks anymore...They have the latest in terms of what russia makes(mig 30/35/37)with thrust vectoring and very advanced avionics that are a match for F15's/F16's/F18's any day of the week and have a huge amount of those to boot...Same goes with tanks with the russian T90 wich is every bit as good as a US abrams tank.....F22's obviously kick ass,but there's current only 100 of them in active service,so not enough to make a real difference against such a large amount. Basically i wouldn't predict a winner if heaven forbid,China and the US went head on into a war with each other,using all their military might,and no matter who won at the end,it'll cost them dearly in terms of material losses but above all else,human lives....
Lady Centrina	Posted - 2007.11.25 05:06:00 - [45] Originally by: digitalwanderer Basically i wouldn't predict a winner if heaven forbid,China and the US went head on into a war with each other,using all their military might,and no matter who won at the end,it'll cost them dearly in terms of material losses but above all else,human lives.... For those few of you who have taken a look at history, China's military is the only military in the world that has effectively beat the US military in a war. That war being the Korean War which was a war wagged not against China, or even Korea once you break down the major powers who influenced the fighting from the beginning. The Cold War was brewing mightily between the US and the USSR in the 50's and both countries had went down a path of trying to lay claim to as many satellite countries who would follow their banner of either democracy or communism. At the end of WWII several countries were broken apart and appointed a "governor" superpower to watch over it, think Germany, Japan, Italy etc...even little old Korea. The border between North and South Korea means nothing, it was a division made by old men thousands of miles away from Southeast Asia. Now, the USSR could not come out and openly attack the US, so they helped start trouble in other parts of the world that would make the US come out and play. So, North Korea attacks South Korea and in the first month virtually takes 99% of the entire country. The US can't have the balance of democratic and communistic countries upset so they send in the Marines. Well the US is slow sometimes, giants tend to be, but once the forces on the ground got moving well there was no slowing them down. The US forces pushed north and reclaimed all of South Korea and starting moving well above the border into North Korea. With a little prodding from the motherland China sent forces south to secure the Chinese - North Korea border and to stop the US march. You see, the USSR was in a bad place, they were behind the North Korea invasion and this was not sitting well in the Kremlin, so they call China and China attacks the marching US forces. This was a huge shock to the US forces as they were not expecting to meet resistance in the northern parts of North Korea, especially not from the Chinese. But they didn't know it was the Chinese at first, no offense, but it has been said that people from that region of the world look alike. Well the US forces were quickly overwhelmed by the sheer number of Chinese troops moving south and some forces were even cut off from the main body. There were several battles between the Chinese and US forces which all resulted in the depletion of the US composition and the eventual retreat back to the border which is now just referred to as the DMZ. A very hastily cease fire was signed, and to this day that war is still officially not resolved. The US had to get out and save face, so they paraded through Soul and set up base and helped rebuild the South, but not for the good of the people of South Korea but to keep a staging area prepared against the future movement of the USSR and a new powerful communist China. Now that the history lesson is over let us speculate: If a war between China and Taiwan erupts, a very good possibility in the next 20 years or so the US will get involved. That seems to be the US way of entering wars. By that time we will have pulled the majority of our troops out of the 'stans and won't be able to land a full combat force until 3-5 days after the first shots are fired. It won't make sense to fully defend Taiwan by deploying there, little island, good chance China will nuke and take out our forces. That battle will be fought in the air and sea before any ground forces clash. China would have to start hitting the US support chain, Japan, Philippines, Guam, Hawaii to make a dent in our attack. Millions will die between California and China, but people in New York still won't know what is going on.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.25 05:27:00 - [46] Originally by: digitalwanderer Originally by: Sharupak The best conventional military is actually far and away the U.S. But if you are talking mach wars, China would beat us due to the fact that our country is so heavily infiltrated by their spy network. Sorry ....Mach wars?. Don't get me wrong here,the US has the most up to date and modern conventional military there is,but china isn't using Mig 21's or vietnam era T72 tanks anymore...They have the latest in terms of what russia makes(mig 30/35/37)with thrust vectoring and very advanced avionics that are a match for F15's/F16's/F18's any day of the week and have a huge amount of those to boot...Same goes with tanks with the russian T90 wich is every bit as good as a US abrams tank.....F22's obviously kick ass,but there's current only 100 of them in active service,so not enough to make a real difference against such a large amount. Basically i wouldn't predict a winner if heaven forbid,China and the US went head on into a war with each other,using all their military might,and no matter who won at the end,it'll cost them dearly in terms of material losses but above all else,human lives.... No no, dont get me wrong, I would like war and weapons and generally the human mindset to kill each other to get ahead to go away. When I say mach battle, I mean just that...not a real one a fake one in an environment that could predict a winner without real combat. Like a computer simulation. With that being addressed, there are many more elements to warfare than tech level of equipment and how much of it you have. Infact, that is probably the least significant factor in winning a battle. The U.S. military actually spends more money on command control and communications than either weapons or training. The reason America can take on armies 10 times her size in conventional warfare is because of a philosophy that took about 50 years to realize. This has led to a term called network centric warfare. All units on the battlefield are linked to intelligence gathered by all the units on the battlefield. This gives you a TITANIC advantage over an enemy force. It allows the elimination of virutally all of the fog of war and allows you to make the enemy's fog much thicker. You can better manage where to put your forces or drop ordinance to generate maximum effect. This is the most important objective to accomplish in warfare. If you are completely effective at it, you render your opponent completely impotent. Thats why the U.S. will pump 2 billion dollars to create a stealth bomber that damage wise is less powerful than a B52. What is are the targets for the most expensive military aircraft ever invented? Missle launchers? Bunkers? Runways? Factories? Nope...its targets are Communications towers, Power plants and radar stations. It is designed to use its stealth to make all the other non stealthy military units...stealthy. They are the first in and their job is to turn the lights out. All your sam batteries, migs, tanks, soldiers are shooting with blindfolds on. But they will run out of bullets and fuel soon because the second target is the logistic chain. I have a bit of experience in this matter. I know Chinese fighter pilots also dont have nearly enough training. I have seen their probes into Taiwanese airspace to test how fast they can scramble aircraft. The Taiwanese f5 chase them back across the border in a matter of minutes. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.25 05:47:00 - [47] Originally by: Lady Centrina Originally by: digitalwanderer History lesson I would have to disagree with you there. MacArthur wanted a counter attack after the Battle of the Chosin reservoir after UN forces cleared all 7 divisions to retreat...60,000 soldiers, but it was denied by the United Nations who saw that this decisive victory would bring the communist forces to peace talks and everyone would save face. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 05:48:00 - [48] And China would never launch a nuke at our forces because I know they not as stupid as say, oh I don't know... Iran(). we have what, 3 Ohio class subs out in the oceans somewhere and each one carries something like 30 Triton ICBMs with 6 nukes in each warhead. Don't worry about nukes... if anyone's going to nuke anyone it'll be Israel hitting Iran Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.11.25 06:08:00 - [49] My money is on China. They already have a force larger than anybodies and if they ever had a draft..... We could nuke em 12 times over and they would probably still have enough troops to walk over us. If any country ever invaded the US I would do my part as a partisan but if China came over all I gotta say is 喂 ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 06:33:00 - [50] No more cheap prison labor produced things that fall apart in the rain? No more poisoning the children? What will we do?? Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick

Last Wolf Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.11.25 06:48:00 - [51] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich My money is on China. They already have a force larger than anybodies and if they ever had a draft..... We could nuke em 12 times over and they would probably still have enough troops to walk over us. If any country ever invaded the US I would do my part as a partisan but if China came over all I gotta say is 喂 How would china get here? Bamboo rafts? As someone pointed out earlier, a 1 billion troop army is useless (at least as an invasion force) if they are stuck on the wrong side of the ocean. Besides. The country with the strongest army is a moot point. What question the OP should really ask is, Which country has the strongest friends? I sometimes worry that if the US was ever invaded, half the would would turn and face the other direction, while the other half would pick up a gun and shoot us.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 06:52:00 - [52] Well, if they go up and sneak through russia and over the arctic it's just a short swim to Alaska then after they take over there they trek through canada and then they in USA Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Hellgan Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.25 07:23:00 - [53] Canadians? Anyone? Hehe. There might not be many of us, but I know we have some of the best trained soldiers in the world. Our JTF (Joint task force... Basically the equivalent of US's Marines) are simply amazing. Americans send some of their soldiers to train here in Canada for that. But to be realistic, I'm aware that Canada doesn't really stand a chance against the US, UK, or China... Simply because you all out-number us. And I'll be honnest, I don't know anything about the UK or CHina's military forces.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.11.25 07:31:00 - [54] Originally by: Hellgan Canadians? Anyone? Hehe. There might not be many of us, but I know we have some of the best trained soldiers in the world. Our JTF (Joint task force... Basically the equivalent of US's Marines) are simply amazing. Americans send some of their soldiers to train here in Canada for that. But to be realistic, I'm aware that Canada doesn't really stand a chance against the US, UK, or China... Simply because you all out-number us. And I'll be honnest, I don't know anything about the UK or CHina's military forces. The Americans can't even keep a nation the size of texas under control, how do they ever expect to keep a nation like Canada under control? Ever been to a hockey game where the ran out of beer? same thing, except with guns.
Hellgan Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.25 07:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Hellgan Canadians? Anyone? Hehe. There might not be many of us, but I know we have some of the best trained soldiers in the world. Our JTF (Joint task force... Basically the equivalent of US's Marines) are simply amazing. Americans send some of their soldiers to train here in Canada for that. But to be realistic, I'm aware that Canada doesn't really stand a chance against the US, UK, or China... Simply because you all out-number us. And I'll be honnest, I don't know anything about the UK or CHina's military forces. The Americans can't even keep a nation the size of texas under control, how do they ever expect to keep a nation like Canada under control? Ever been to a hockey game where the ran out of beer? same thing, except with guns. I like the way you think :)
Seraphll Darklite inc Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.25 09:09:00 - [56] Originally by: Ilvan Originally by: Oventoasted nope i'm serious. not saying all news papers and news stations report opinions and BS. i mean hell i see more about celebrities then actual news! the news reports what will get the most views then actually reporting the facts and events. This is a problem with monolithic corporate news entities, not free journalism itself. Freedom of the press is one of the most important things in a democracy. Putting up with tabloids and celebrity nonsense is a very small price to pay. Well stated Ilvan, couldn't agree with you more.
DarknessInc Minmatar Legion of Corpses Federation Of united Corps	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:01:00 - [57] Edited by: DarknessInc on 25/11/2007 10:02:28 Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny The Swiss! I SECOND THIS. Plunder. I will allow you to plunder my butt bunny for that exact line :) Originally by: SoftRevolution Definitely the Swiss. AND THISSS /signed. Much love to you too - Wachtmeister
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:08:00 - [58] 5 isk says DarknessInc is Swiss Originally by: ISD Valorem The Devs have stated multiple times that they are looking at the Amarr issues. Weekly quote: "Villains always have antidotes... They're funny that way." ~The Tick
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:19:00 - [59] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich My money is on China. They already have a force larger than anybodies and if they ever had a draft..... We could nuke em 12 times over and they would probably still have enough troops to walk over us. If any country ever invaded the US I would do my part as a partisan but if China came over all I gotta say is 喂 Tbh, the only way the british could loose to the chinese is running out of ammo. But we all know that boxing > kung fu
Denton Frost Amarr KSI	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:38:00 - [60] Originally by: Multras News cameras are more deadly then guns in a war. O'Rly? you gonna film them to death? I hear those wide angle lenses have pretty nasty sharp edges tho



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