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Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:31:00 - [61] Edited by: Stitcher on 25/11/2007 13:32:11 Originally by: Korad Konstentyn Originally by: Stitcher We can use the original troll then join me, let the hatred take over, it is your destiny ... together we can destroy Jenny, as Quoter and Quotee together... meh, pass. I'm hungry, and there's a baked potato and a tin of beans downstairs waiting for me..... EDIT: (also, can you imagine if Luke Skywalker had just told the Emperor - "You know what? let's just go grab a beer instead"?) - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Korad Konstentyn The Genyosha Society PURGE.	Posted - 2007.11.25 13:35:00 - [62] Originally by: Stitcher meh, pass. I'm hungry, and there's a baked potato and a tin of beans downstairs waiting for me..... beans, potatoes, a Jedi craves not these things... Originally by: Stitcher EDIT: (also, can you imagine if Luke Skywalker had just told the Emperor - "You know what? let's just go grab a beer instead"?) now beer on the other hand...
Chr0nosX Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.25 15:43:00 - [63] Edited by: Chr0nosX on 25/11/2007 15:43:28 They are one of the most balanced ships in the game; quit whining because you got your arse handed to you.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.25 15:56:00 - [64] Originally by: Korad Konstentyn ya know.. (and I should know too)... if Jenny is such a damn carebear what the hell is she doing in THE CHURCH ? (home of everyones favorite.. INFOD) Urgh.. I feel owned...Jenny is a HUGE troll..ignore the carebear routine folks, its a lie, Jenny is a troll, just ignore the hell out of her. The character was bought JUST to mess with people... end of story, dont feel the troll, that all Jenny is You mean you couldn't tell just from the way she writes? The faux-carebear routine is so obvious that it is also obviously meant to be obvious, to further infuriate anyone who actually cares. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
pain supplier Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:20:00 - [65] Troll thread #561 from the 'new' Jenny Spitfire. I don't usually mind people who buy accounts usually I just say/think more fool you. In your case though I wish the pratice was banned completely asyou make daft posts a few sentences long with no game experiance. STFU and just play the game and stop being a attention seeking Troll. I propose that you should be banned from the forum for the good of the commuinity. Sometimes I think this is the real Jenny going out of her way to annoy the community for laugh, if so well done. Damn i'm feeding the troll
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:43:00 - [66] Originally by: Korad Konstentyn Hi, Jenny you bought your account, from someone we liked; My god do people still believe this? SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:43:00 - [67] Edited by: Le Skunk on 25/11/2007 16:43:41 Originally by: pain supplier Sometimes I think this is the real Jenny going out of her way to annoy the community for laugh, if so well done. Ker-Ching! SKUNK
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:51:00 - [68] Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 25/11/2007 16:51:24 Considering their increased cost with only basic insurance payout and the training time required they are balanced. Besides that eve pvp is more often won by outnumbering and blobbing, than by flying better ships, so actually the whole point is mood. It's not like vets in command-ships move around and own everything. They can be killed by a group of newbies, who don't know anything about pvp, except to fit for tackling and pressing f1...f8.
Firkragg Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Edited by: Dred''Pirate Jesus on 25/11/2007 10:53:25 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Scott Ryder Yes it is balanced as it is. Drake on the other hand as previously mentioned however is not balanced in line with the other battlecruisers Then make the Drake into an armor tanking and missile spewing battlecruiser with a drone bay size matching other battlecruisers please. Both of you stfu about the drake.. Tank:[=======================@=====] DPS:.[=====@=======================] Bal:..[==============@==============] Yup balance is right in the middle so lets forget about the drake.. HAM drake with some BCUs does comparable damage (except to the myrm but thats getting nerfed). The problem is that people prefer to set them up with the huge tank thats far ahead of anything any of the other BCs can manage.
Incantare Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.25 16:58:00 - [70] Originally by: Firkragg HAM drake with some BCUs does comparable damage (except to the myrm but thats getting nerfed). The problem is that people prefer to set them up with the huge tank thats far ahead of anything any of the other BCs can manage. Comparable but inferior, and even then it needs a fitting mod to get a decent fitting because of the crazy pg reqs of hams. Keep in mind the myrm can get nearly the same passive tank.

Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:02:00 - [71] Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 25/11/2007 17:05:12 Originally by: Firkragg HAM drake with some BCUs does comparable damage (except to the myrm but thats getting nerfed). The problem is that people prefer to set them up with the huge tank thats far ahead of anything any of the other BCs can manage. Hmm, remember killing a passive tanked drake with a sabre and a stilletto after that nerf and soling 2 passive tanked drakes with a nano-phoon with only 4 torps launchers and 5 drones before the nerf within reasonable time, so didn't really meet that unbeatable passive tanked drake so far. On the other hand I remember failing to take down a caldari command ship with a small gang, no matter what we tried, it just tanked our 8 little ships or so. That was a passive tank.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:03:00 - [72] Considering all the training they take to use, I'd say they're fine. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:05:00 - [73] This is for posters who are not willing to discuss nicely and constructively. You know you do not need to call people names just because they have different point of view or have different game experience. If people ask something and you call them nasty names then why is the point of asking in a general discussion? It is not that I am crying on every other forums asking for nerfs on command ships. Originally by: Korad Konstentyn ...but the moment someone discovers im not Jewish, it renders the whole conversation a little....tainted.. wouldnt you agree? I disagree. It is quite funny to see all so called pirates/griefers/lamers crying waa waaa waa about there is nobody in low-secs or null-secs or why nobody wants to go kill them but prefer to live in empire. Do you guys ever think about wearing shoes of sheeps and wonder why nobody wants to play with you? I tell you it is because there is an imbalance biased to griefers looking for easy kills is why nobody from empire wants to visit non-empire systems. I sometimes think so-called pirates crying for targets are actually sheeps in wolf clothings because they complain about no targets or imbalances in the game but not willing to take compromise or live as sheeps to see the other side of the fence. I honestly want balance in this game so logging in the game would be fun really for sheeps and wolves. I guess this is not one of eVe strongest unique selling point because all of you only want to make eVe is work. :s My 0.01 ISK. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:12:00 - [74] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I disagree. It is quite funny to see all so called pirates/griefers/lamers crying waa waaa waa about there is nobody in low-secs or null-secs or why nobody wants to go kill them but prefer to live in empire. Do you guys ever think about wearing shoes of sheeps and wonder why nobody wants to play with you? I tell you it is because there is an imbalance biased to griefers looking for easy kills is why nobody from empire wants to visit non-empire systems. I sometimes think so-called pirates crying for targets are actually sheeps in wolf clothings because they complain about no targets or imbalances in the game but not willing to take compromise or live as sheeps to see the other side of the fence. I honestly want balance in this game so logging in the game would be fun really for sheeps and wolves. I guess this is not one of eVe strongest unique selling point because all of you only want to make eVe is work. :s My 0.01 ISK. I'm sorry, I'm afraid I didn't really understand the point you're trying to make. Do you think you could maybe re-word it please? - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Alexi Zhukov Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:13:00 - [75] I think account buying should be nerfed just my 0.02 ISK Originally by: Fink Angel "Eve Chess" : where suddenly 20 queens all appear on the board in the same square as you, while the opposing king shoots at you from somewhere just off the board.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:16:00 - [76] Stitcher, I am sorry that I don't know how. I tell you what, let me think how could I re-word it and when I have figured out, I will repost what I wanted to say. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:32:00 - [77] nevermind, I think I got my head round it. to summarize: 1: pirates complain about not having enough targets in low sec 2: the reason there are not enough people flying around in low sec is that it is too easy for people to fly imbalanced setups that can gank anything 3: pirates do not understand this fact because they haven't ever experienced being ganked while trying to do peaceful carebear-ish things. right? my rebuttal: Typically, a gank is where a ship or group of ships attack a target that is far below their weight category. The best example being a command ship attacking an industrial - of COURSE the CS is going to win. Industrials are generally non-combat vessels. A CS versus a ship that's more on its sort of level, on the other hand, is generally a fairly straight fight. your typical "target" in low sec is the sort of ship that is vulnerable. A smart pilot flying a fast frigate is not vulnerable, nor is a skilled pilot flying a tough combat vessel. An unprotected solo mining barge, on the other hand, or a solo Iteron V, is easy pickings, so naturally the pirates are going to go preferentially hunt such targets, and avoid the stuff that could potentially defeat them. So, calling the example of pirates taking out carebears as a reason why command ships are overpowered is somewhat nonsensical - that's like complaining that an A-10 "Warthog" tank hunter is overpowered relative to a civilian truck lorry. In the meantime, the peaceful types - the "sheep" - are probably swapping information about which systems are presently being camped and carefully avoiding the most prominent pirate hangouts so as to minimize their losses. It's like in real life - if there's a spate of muggings in a certain part of town, after a while, word gets around and people will start avoiding the area, or only going there in groups. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:34:00 - [78] No. DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:45:00 - [79] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 25/11/2007 17:46:13 Originally by: Stitcher 3: pirates do not understand this fact because they haven't ever experienced being ganked while trying to do peaceful carebear-ish things. right? More or less but mainly referring to Konrad's point and not about haulers getting killed too easily by CS which is what you are talking about later. It would be nonsense for me to say nerf CS because they kill haulers too easily. I think his point is about I am a wolf in sheep's clothing and whatever I say for the under represented is out of the window. 3. is more like so-called pirates do not understand what is life of a sheep is like and they are unwilling to take compromises and want empire dwellers to come to low secs or null secs so they could easily grief them. What I was saying was in reponse to Konrad and not really about nerf CS because they kill haulers too easily. Do you get your head round it now? I am really asking for balance. In CCP, I trust. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:56:00 - [80] They're pretty much balanced Jenny, now let it die.

Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:57:00 - [81] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I am really asking for balance. In CCP, I trust. Well, see, that's the thing - to judge by the responses in this thread, the majority think that CS' are balanced. I think your best bet at this point is to bring forward some more solid combat evidence than just "Command Ship pilots have a better kill/death ratio" to prove your point. It's my experience that command ships are rarely chosen as primary targets, because there's usually something more important and more fragile out there to deal with first. So if you want to prove your point, I'd advise pulling out some mathematical proof - say, DPS calculations - that conclusively prove that command ships punch/tank far harder than they should for their size and expense. The thing is that I pretty much guarantee that CCP have already done such calculations and found them to be acceptable. There's not really a lot of evidence here to support your claim that command ships are imbalanced, honestly... - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:04:00 - [82] You bought in a fine point. I personally think those nice DPS graphs do say something about balance within ships in their class minus complicating setups. At most, nice pretty graphs only show full tank or full gank but don't really tell much about balance when playing the game. Theory online is one thing but at the end it is all about belts and braces when it comes to balance in my opinion. I guessed nobody learnt from speedtanking and Vagabonds experience. Everyone was too busy with DPS graphs. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:07:00 - [83] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire You bought in a fine point. I personally think those nice DPS graphs do say something about balance within ships in their class minus complicating setups. At most, nice pretty graphs only show full tank or full gank but don't really tell much about balance when playing the game. Theory online is one thing but at the end it is all about belts and braces when it comes to balance in my opinion. I guessed nobody learnt from speedtanking and Vagabonds experience. Everyone was too busy with DPS graphs. :) but again, the only ships likely to be found in belts are either other pirates (who will probably be avoided) or else civilian vessels like haulers and mining barges, which are easy targets. Pirates in command ships have such great kill/death ratios because they're attacking soft targets they can easily defeat, not because the ship is itself imbalanced. This topic is starting to go in circles. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:28:00 - [84] Edited by: Goumindong on 25/11/2007 18:29:12 Originally by: Stitcher I think your best bet at this point is to bring forward some more solid combat evidence than just "Command Ship pilots have a better kill/death ratio" to prove your point. It's my experience that command ships are rarely chosen as primary targets, because there's usually something more important and more fragile out there to deal with first. Command ships have terrible/hood DPS/Hit Point ratios depending on how you look at it. When calling primaries you want to call ships which have high DPS and low hit points first[and that your entire gang can get to]. So that these ships will die fast and the majoirty of the opponents DPS dies quicker. This means battlecruisers/Cruiesr/HAcs top the list then Battleships, then Command ships. For instance going up against a gang of "Thorax, Rupture, Harbinger, Abaddon, Astarte". With a similar sized gang you would want to call the Thorax, Rupture, Harbinger, Abaddon/Astarte in that order. The thorax will be doing between 350-650 dps and will have between 12,000 and 25,000 hit points. The Harbinger will be doing between 600-800 dps and will have between 42,000 and 59,000 hit points. The Rupture will be doing between 300 and 600 dps and will have between 12,000 and 25,000 hit points. The Astarte will be doing Between 600 and 1000 dps and will have between 50,000 and 70,000 hit points with a strong rep tank. The Abaddon will have some 1000 dps and 140k hit points. [All numbers assuming optimal hp/tank setups ingoring repair units and using damage drones] As such the best way to attack this gang is to ewar the Abaddon, Astarte, Harbinger, Thorax, Rupture, in that order. And primary the Thorax, Rupture, Harbinger, Astarte, Abaddon in that order. Even when the Astarte is very gank oriented it doesnt make sense to primary it in small gangs. What this means is that as things go lopsided, the ships that are most likely to live are the Abaddon and Astarte... BUT the Abaddon is really slow, and the Astarte is not. Does it make the command ship overpowered? No, it just means that its not a good ship to shoot first in a gang since it is likely to have a lot of hit points and tank relative to its DPS capabilites. Fleets its a bit different, you have so much DPS the primary thing that keeps you from killing things is locking time and tracking. So you go after the battleships first.
Morn Judith Caldari Incognito Inc	Posted - 2007.11.25 18:38:00 - [85] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire You bought in a fine point. I personally think those nice DPS graphs do say something about balance within ships in their class minus complicating setups. At most, nice pretty graphs only show full tank or full gank but don't really tell much about balance when playing the game. Theory online is one thing but at the end it is all about belts and braces when it comes to balance in my opinion. I guessed nobody learnt from speedtanking and Vagabonds experience. Everyone was too busy with DPS graphs. :) Dear "new"-Jenny. Play the game, get some experience, know what you're talking about, or leave us all alone. Originally by: Tarminic I WANT A THRONE MADE OF MY OWN CORPSES.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:36:00 - [86] Nope. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:57:00 - [87] Depends, what are they supposed to be like? I do feel like I should be a tough nut to ***** shelling out the kind of money these things cost. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:15:00 - [88] Originally by: Chr0nosX Edited by: Chr0nosX on 25/11/2007 15:43:28 They are one of the most balanced ships in the game; quit whining because you got your arse handed to you. i¯d like to hand my ass to you:)
Jagaroth Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:27:00 - [89] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Korad Konstentyn Hi, Jenny you bought your account, from someone we liked; My god do people still believe this? SKUNK Yes. Tried and tested. Example (real Jen would know answer, false Jen won't answer at all) question: "What would be your processor of choice?" As to the topic: Some command ships are a bit too powerful/ useful/ flexible compared to other command ships, but given the role they are supposed to perform they are generally pretty balanced when compared to other ship types. My main gripe is that I have had a Vulture for nearly two years and it's still crap. Fix it damnit! They're so bad they're being sold at build price... The Eos is good, but to be honest I prefer an Ishtar unless I'm using gang mods. No idea why the Astarte is so highly priced (cough ). The Nighthawk is probably only overpriced because it's used by mission runners - a Cerberus is more useful in PvP.
maxpricechecker	Posted - 2007.11.25 20:27:00 - [90] Any decent BS player should be able to take on a decent Cmdship pilot.. They are fine, stop trying to get things nerfed!



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