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Map Options/Inability to sneak

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Teen	Posted - 2004.04.27 12:41:00 - [61] Strangely enough this thread found it's way to the third page and another thread discussing only the Local channel has emerged... I liked this better (much more valid points in here ;)), so BUMP! Miss August 2003 - http://eve.unnerf.com/
Malar	Posted - 2004.04.27 13:43:00 - [62] Seconded. The details on the map should be revisited one by one and everything that could hamper an individuals ability to lay amushes / sneak around others should be taken out. I'm talking about things like: concord / police / pirate / faction kills in system kills in system podkills in system number of pilots in space number of pilots docked jumps made in the last hour / day / etc just a few that hop into my mind. The current system is nice for sure, but the stats take too much away from the game to justify their exsistence. --------------------------------------------- Comments in this post are mine and mine only and are not the views held by Mercenary Forces Corp
Lachenlaud	Posted - 2004.04.27 15:04:00 - [63] The map function has a purpose, one of which is to 'see' what is going on in the game. I have found it to be an invaluable tool however, I must agree with the idea of 'nerfing' it in non-empire space. If the data that the map shows is supposed to be supplied by concord, then where concord has no 'sway' the map should be left blank in many aspects. EG - Players in space, etc. I do think that stations should still show up, since the story line shows concord having knowledge of the 'lost' stations out in 0.0 space. People talk of having the ability to set up 'ambushes' and making things more interesting by adding 'frigate' patrols to police their factions space. I like this idea as well. It will give people the oportunity to head into 0.0 space controlled by alliances in attempts to 'sneak attack', 'sneak survey and scout', and 'sneak mine'. As the current map stands, many people avoid 0.0 space because they know someone is always 'watching' for movement. The satellite idea is marvelous, but to go hand in hand with that I think that there should also be devices for 'counter-measures' against such satelites. Thus someone can fly into 0.0 space that is 'screened' from detection. (Perhaps an extra arm could be thrown on the skill-tree for being able to control such devices as well under the 'electronic warfare' branch of things.) All in all, I concur with what many have said here.. nerf the map - make it more 'realistic' a tool, and make life a little more interesting by adding opportunities for espionage/counter espionage by people being able to sneak in and out of non-empire space. [email protected] http://www.goi-eve.com/forums/ Check out the Eve Master Datasheet here!!
Malvada	Posted - 2004.04.27 22:00:00 - [64] Devs? anyone listening? give us a SIGN! we all really hope you're reading this thread, and taking notes. a lot of these changes would mean huge increases in the fun factor for this game, not that it isn't already fantastic... i'm not asking for a in-thread discussion, now. but an acknowledgement that this thread has been read by a Dev would be keen... here's to wishing.
Razaelle	Posted - 2004.04.27 23:41:00 - [65] Just an idea going through my mind about the local chat... As I have seen some would want to keep it as it is for some reasons in other threads... What about making the local chat list toggleable ? When activated, it works as usual, listing all the people with their list activated. When shutted down, you don't appear on the list, allowing for some sneaking operation... but as you don't have any list, you are basicely blind as well. It would be like having active and passive scanner mode... maybe the idea need to be tweaked but I think that letting people chose on what mode they want to operate is the way to go :)
Coeleth	Posted - 2004.04.28 02:47:00 - [66] Adding my support to this one. No pilots in space etc info in 0.0 Maybe delayed reports from 0.1 to 0.4
Dallenn	Posted - 2004.04.28 11:01:00 - [67] I think these ideas would change things quite a bit, and many complex factors are involved, so it's not safe to just introduce them in one go and see how everybody likes it. Also it takes time to come up with good ideas on variations of the basic concepts, and to implement them. Also different groups of players should be considered: Lots of RP-based PvP happens in (secure and insecure) empire space. 0.0 is controlled by mining alliances, and many RP corps have little business going there. If the changes only affect 0.0, a lot of players are gonna miss out. Then again maybe 0.0 should be enlargened... might help to address some exploits that can be done in insecure empire space. Sensors should play a part outside corp wars too, though this should be quite easy to do. Miners could deploy them to monitor their insecure cans or to warn of approaching pirates, mercenaries could track the movements of their prey, and so on. We seek the Chosen ones / Roleplaying in Eve / Idea Lab favourites I am Paratwa / Of the Ash Ock A Guardian of time / The firestorm / That purifies
Darmed Khan	Posted - 2004.04.28 12:35:00 - [68] Edited by: Darmed Khan on 28/04/2004 12:40:31 C'mon devs, do something! In my opinion all you have to do now is nerf the map. You can leave local chat, satellites, and all the other ideas listed in this thread until a few weeks later and see what people think needs doing. Surely one of you can spare a minute of your time to change a single line of code in a single function to just return a count of 0 players for systems in low sec. space?
Megan Ryder	Posted - 2004.04.29 13:14:00 - [69] i like the idea. gives scope to all kinds of new skills and items Warp Signature Analysis - detecting recent jump activity Warp Signature Detection - tracking Advanced Scanning - scanning 0/1j systems (overview data only) Advanced System Scanning - scanning current system (full pilot info) I'm looking forward to some pvp action when i'm all growed up, and this thread excites me with a plethora of possible occupations other than minaaan and fightaaan.. a gradual errosion from .4 down, loosing both map and local info. see whole post for some excellent ideas... possible way to implement it would be to rp the rats starting to attack concord infastructure in unsecure space, thereby allowing a gradual degradation from where we are now, people will have to wean them off the map as the data becomes gradually less reliable in low sec space. Megan
Megan Ryder	Posted - 2004.04.29 13:25:00 - [70] sry, I forgot... I really like the mapping idea to go with this concept. If a new area of space were to be opened up, but without being added to everyones map. If you go to the last system on the map, unmapped stargates are avail, your personal map recording the new systems as you go. Given the Mapping skill and lots of time you create a map that can then be copied and sold. Maybe you have to be in system for a reqd time to add to your map... I think this is a biggy devwise, but cool idea tho Megan
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.04.29 15:09:00 - [71] Quote: I think these ideas would change things quite a bit, and many complex factors are involved, so it's not safe to just introduce them in one go and see how everybody likes it. It didn't stop the highway now did it. Nerf the map to hell and then poke it some with a red hot poker till you're sure it's dead and comfy down the abyss. Convert Stations
Slam	Posted - 2004.04.30 08:04:00 - [72] I was about to write a post on this exact topic - good thing I looked a few pages back. For the content of this thread is the single most important thing to "correct" in Eve right now. This would provide enormous fun for the player base in the 0.0 sec areas. In the case this thread do not reach the developers ears: IF you have any contacts to people participating in the next csm chat - make sure the contents of this thread is noticed by CCP!
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2004.04.30 10:24:00 - [73] I fully support this It might have been mentioned before, but I would like to see this modification: - allow ships to "squawk" if they desire for both the map and local This way, if you want to be anonymous, you can. If you want any/everybody to find you, you, no problem! I think this and the crappy sec rating issue should be Priority #1 for CCP. And this post should be a sticky If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Moah	Posted - 2004.04.30 11:24:00 - [74] omg am I teh only one who hate this idea? I want to know where ppl are, i want to know where my enemy is mining, without having 10 spys in frigates scouting the systems. sry but its just a stupid idea. "more surprise", blabla, until you run in a blockade an lose your ship... call me a carebear or whatever, it just makes traveling in 0.0 slower and near impossible for a commander to see were the enemy, assistance, etc. is.... the only good idea in this thread was from Drutort: Quote: how about a ship class that doesnt show up on the map? an elite frig type? it could be part of a skill for the ship? Fancy.
Malvada	Posted - 2004.05.01 05:51:00 - [75] Originally by: Moah omg am I teh only one who hate this idea? it would seem so. every point you've tried to make has already been dealt with in this thread. excellent thread! so many positive ideas, and while some are a little too complicated, i believe a blank Local chatters list in 0.0 and no stats for player activity at all (includes everything that would give away the presence of pilots) on the map in 0.0 would be easy and simple to implement. these ideas seem to have the most promise. technology for keeping track of the enemy in 0.0 can be introduced later, but with everyone flying blind in 0.0, the odds are even. you don't know where they are, and they don't know were you are. i love it! Viceroy > so whats the problem? the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts? the hlynsiman > no by mining Viceroy > terrorist mining?
Raedon	Posted - 2004.05.12 05:53:00 - [76] Edited by: Raedon on 12/05/2004 05:55:12 Not many seem to have written a negative reply to the topic so I thought perhaps I'll add some balance... If we remove Local Chat and the map "Pilots in Space" option, this helps some PvPs but what about the ones that want to catch players mining or fighting in the asteroid fields? Remove the local and there will be a pirate alert chat channel similar to trade so everyone will still know where pirates are camped. That means that the pirate is then disadvantaged. The way things are currently implemented, Pirates can see where players are and head to the appropriate gates to catch them on the way back. Another point is that although many people would like to scout ahead, I think the majority of players want to get on with mining, NPC Hunting, etc. If it takes someone 14 jumps just to check out a system, that's 30 mins out of my game time that I believe most people could do without. It does work both ways for pirates and the hunted. I personally believe it is easier to check the map before bothering to sit at a gate and local can alert me to the fact that people will soon be coming through (also gives me a chance to taunt them - haha). The flow of players from system to system also assists me in determining if they are coming or going... That said, I do see the merits of removing the facilities or at least changing them slightly.
Vel Kyri	Posted - 2004.05.12 11:28:00 - [77] Another shamelss bump. i soo want these its not funny. I would go so far as to remove a system even showing up until you have a bookmark in that system - and the info about stations/planets/belts doesn't show until you have bookmarks for those items. make the map basically the "bookmark viewer" - if you have no bookmarks, then you have no map. -----
Fto Cruise	Posted - 2004.05.12 12:07:00 - [78] Many many benefits for doing this Draconis. I for one would welcome it. Let's get rid of local too. And the idea of making your own map from starting out is also good. Only one drawback, pvpers would be able to sit in the entry 0.0 systems unnoticed. There are probably many ways around that tho. One might be a new type of drone that you send through the jumpgate 1st to scout for you. Results of it's report would have to be based on skill level. There would also be a chance to knock out the drone before it made it's report. That way the user would know something was there, but not what (enter at own risk). Another way would be to have 3 or 4 jumpgates into 0.0 from the same empire system. Ie. torrinos only goes to ec-p8r. So add 3 more jumps into 0.0 from that system and you stand a better chance of getting past the first jump. On the whole though, i think the game is crying out for this. More access to 0.0 means more PvP. Now i'm not a pvper, but without it this game doesnt exist. Nice one Draconis, repeat this topic weekly until it is made so. Manufacturers of the 425mm Railgun II
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.05.12 15:23:00 - [79] Bump there it is. Nerf the map to hell and beyond! Convert Stations
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.05.12 15:52:00 - [80] i'd encourage all those who are interested in this thread to take the time to read the whole thing, as there are some terrific ideas here. i was going to make a summary, but RL intrudes on my play time enough as is. i heartily believe in the basic ideas presented here in this thread, namely a lack of map info and Local chatter's list in 0.0 space. info out in the frontier should be aquired through players actively gathering info and reporting back to others, not handed to them on a silver platter. if players are going to create a "pirate alert" channel, fine. nothing stopping the pirates from creating a "potential targets" channel, to share info about where corps are active in 0.0 and whether they pay out ransoms. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Moonracer	Posted - 2004.05.12 16:35:00 - [81] Great ideas. Low sec should be more of a mystery. Only thing I think needs to stay is number of pods destroyed (number of ships destroyed would be good too, also both would be reportable because of insurance/cloning). I really like the satelite station idea. I think if they were deployed in "safe spots" that would be good as well as it would add more of a challenge to scouts/explorers. Maybe a limit of 10 max satelites would be good. Would still allow a corp to dominate a fairly large sector. If you mix satelites with deployable turrets and other deployable corp items you basically have corp fortresses to attack and defend, which make for interesting corp war toys.
Demangel	Posted - 2004.05.14 05:28:00 - [82] I vote strongly in favor of removing the "show pilots in space" idea. As for the removal of Local, I would suggest that CCP do one the following: A: Leave the channel alone, we need to an open local channel to talk to people with sometimes, but don't let it say who is present, if someone wants to be noticed, let them broadcast a signal. B: Leave the channel alone, we need the channel sometimes for legit uses, but allow players to "hide" thier pressance in local. IF either of A or B is in place, then CCP really NEEDS to: Create a module, or deployable that will allow the owner/corp/whatever to know someone has entered. In other words, The won't show up on local channels unless the player has the module activated, or is freidnly with the surveliance deployable. The module and deployable need not give away exact coordinates, but it should reveal players in a system who are otherwise hidden. In response to this, CCP should consider a "radio silence" module for individual ships. It's essentialy an EW device that Keeps the ship harder to spot on local. For either of the detection devices, the player should have to be in the same system to do a scan and see who is present. Not have a way to access this remotely. Anyway I agree, I would Adore the Show players in space/docked option be removed... It takes away the feeling of a fog of war effect, and just makes one more aspect of EVE predictable that should be more player skill/chance oriented. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Codetwister	Posted - 2004.05.14 20:37:00 - [83] I like the idea of; 1. Removing number of pilots in space. 2. Giving people the option of showing up in local channel. But I'd like to add to this concept (forgive me if this idea was already posted, but I scanned the thread and didn't see it yet), so here goes... I think player-owned structures should have the option of being listed in the map or the system directory regardless of what type of structure it may be. For example: A person\corp\alliance should be able to build a structure (station, refinery, etc) and anchor it wherever they want (whether it be limited to a planetary body or not doesn't matter to me) and then set an option that says "Display this structure on map (or system directory... the right-click option) for person\corp\alliance members only, or for all pilots (in current system or all of Eve". This would remove the ability for somebody to simply warp to your structure unless you set it to be listed in the system directory. It would certainly add a new spin to the game. It would allow smaller corps and alliances to build their strength with less a chance of somebody attacking them unless the agressor takes the time to actually "explore" or recon the system in order to find them first. It would also make large corps\alliances learn new strategies in order to secure their "Region". Of course people would have to take the bad with the good such as... If your station is not "registered" in the map you would not be able to sell items on the open market from your station. I keep coming up with more ideas related to this and could keep going and going, but I'd like to get some feedback on this idea... Pegasus Mining and Securities
MadGaz	Posted - 2004.05.15 17:23:00 - [84] Good ideas so far, maybe on the local channel issue: It wont display the current people in the system, but you can still talk in it, it will say your name when you broadcast a message yes, but otherwise they wont know you are there. ------------------------------------------
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.05.15 17:57:00 - [85] i'm glad this thread keeps getting rediscovered and commented on and supported. shows that these ideas, at least the more feasible amongst them, are definitely something the vast majority of the player base would want.
Neko Makai	Posted - 2004.05.15 19:13:00 - [86] Edited by: Neko Makai on 15/05/2004 19:17:53 Edited by: Neko Makai on 15/05/2004 19:16:31 LOOK CCP how many ppl are in agreement, NERF THE MAP TO HELL!!!! 1. Remove Pilots in space in 0.0 space 2. remove jumps/NPC killed in 0.0 space also 3. remove local or nerf it PEOPLE if u want to be heard, KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE!! One voice may not be heard, but 1000s will. If u read this thread PLease vote on it, even if ur not in favor or undecided. Least we get a number.
Berilac	Posted - 2004.05.15 21:03:00 - [87] How about this: theres a module/ship that hides other ships from local and on the map, when the other ship/ships are within 50km, and in the same corp. simple. it makes people scout for fleets, but still allows the individual pilot to be seen, unless he buys one of these module/ships. There could be a skill, like map-cloaking. lvl 3 or 4 with 5 addtional people being hid every level. --- 'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2004.06.07 07:01:00 - [88] Nerf the local? Sounds like a job for a Cloaking Device Really though, if it weren't for cloaking coming out so soon, I would be all for killing local. Nerf the "Pilots in Space"? I'll drink to that, but only in low-sec space (otherwise it doesn't fit that the map is empty but CONCORD knows exactly where you are at all times). As stated earlier: I agree with keeping the pod kills in the last 24 hours. This makes sense on a lot of levels, as every pilot should be able to avoid gate-campers via a "pod-kill traffic report" if they choose to. If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Nan Flori	Posted - 2004.06.08 10:22:00 - [89] i totally agree on removing "pilots in space" from 0.0 data on 0.1->0.4 should be less accurate local should stay, but no pilots listed. These are all great ideas... Nan
illuminati	Posted - 2004.06.10 11:51:00 - [90] Edited by: illuminati on 10/06/2004 11:52:46 Vote NO to deepspace map option "show pilots in space" Edit: Leave local the hell alone! It's fine the way it is!

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