EVE Search - Map Options/Inability to sneak

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Map Options/Inability to sneak

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Draconis	Posted - 2004.03.07 03:05:00 - [1] Please don't flame this, if you don't like what it says, post a mature idealistic reason as to why it isn't a good idea. When I started getting into EVE before I was accepted into beta, I myself, and others like me, read about players scouting, patrolling and seeking out information about one's opponents, as well as corporations/alliances worrying about fleets appearing at their doorstep without notice. What ever happened to that EVE? Well as it stands now, as alot of CA/SA players know, the instant one of those two Alliances amasses a large fleet, it sticks out like a sore thumb on the map. It makes it virtualy impossible to jump an enemy without them knowing well in advance. Corporations/Alliances need not expend resources to patrol their systems, or scout ahead for enemy mining ops or fleets, because they have the easy feature of opening the map, and flipping it to "Display Number of Pilots in Space" ANd they can watch players amass and move around in any area of EVE without difficulty. This to me, is very wrong. Sure it works both ways, if SA amasses a fleet, we in CA know as it's happening. But I think that ruins gameplay. We should have to have dedicated scouts, and have patrols watching our space, to inform us of approaching enemies, or hidden mining operations. I ask, no I beg the devs to at least look into removing the "Show Players In Space" Option for at least 0.3-0.0 Space. Sure, Concord could have a network to relay information of who's all in space and whatnot, but in 0.0 we all know criminals don't want to be found, and it's really hard to sneak around when everyone knows there's a single Pilot in HED-GP and he's moving down towards HLW.. It's like playing poker when everyone knows what you have in your hand. If the option were gone completely, or at least from low security space where COncord isn't present, players could move around, sneak around and jump other players. Right as it stands, PvP is in short supply because when players know they're about to get jumped, they dock. If people in low security could sneak around, corporations would have to work harder at reaching out to find enemies, but in turn this would turn up more PvP, as you could get the jump on unprepared enemies, and see more fighting happen. Large fleets could be rolling down into DSS-EZ, Stain would be clueless unless they had a patrol/scout watching the route down to inform them of incoming enemies. I know I personally would always be a dedicated frigate scout, if it were a viable occupation. Currently there's no real need, other than to sit in a station and read off how many players are where, and if they move. Think about the new types of occupations, players who like frigates more than battleships, could go out and see the world of EVE, find all there is to find, and sell it's locations to the highest bidders. Good scouts and spies, would then become a vast need. No longer would spies just get into corps and relay information, they could sneak around and find enemy mining ops, and various operations. I believe EVE's gameplay value would vastly increase if the option to "View Number of Pilots in Space" Were removed from the game completely, or at least from low security space. You may read this, and not agree, as you'd lose the ability to locate your enemies with ease. But think about it this way, it works both ways, and there's a greater chance you'll find fights this way, than the way it currently is. Players won't be able to run from you if they don't know you are coming. Jakob Remierat Oblivion Amalgamated Public Relations Nightmare
Saladin	Posted - 2004.03.07 04:40:00 - [2] I have to lend my support to this idea. I can see where the map options make sense in empire space, but since the database is supplied by concord they would not have such detailed info on what happens in 0.0 space (in game explaination). The map filters killed the scout/explorer function in EvE. People should determine the number of pilots in a system by being in the system and using the scanner. The number of jumps in the past hour should be information that is queried from the jump gate. Players should also be able to set up anchorable 'listening posts' or sensor arrays to notify the corp/faction/alliance of the system information much in the way the map does now. --------------------------- (c) Copyright Saladin, 2005. Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.03.07 16:41:00 - [3] In short, nerf the map! Convert Stations
Black 5	Posted - 2004.03.07 18:32:00 - [4] I like the Idea a lot. Only makes sense that you should see the pilots in space in empire where there is concord all over. But in 0.0 it's the wild west
K'roth Manatir	Posted - 2004.03.07 23:50:00 - [5] Yup its a bit crazy atm. I'm a frigate pilot and I'd really like to be able to take on the recon frig role when they come out but with current map settings its a bit pointless. ofc the recon frigs will have more than 1 use but it would be nice to be able to scout for the team.
Wild Rho	Posted - 2004.03.08 01:08:00 - [6] Same here. Give players options to maybe deploy destructable objects that will relay information from a system such as rec or spy satellites. This means that if a corp or alliance wants to have a good awareness of the area around them they have to spend the time and isk setting up networks of satellites. Make the detectable on scanners and destructable so if another corp was thinking of launching an attack on the area they have to start locating and destroying the satellites in the system. As for balance make the satellites VERY expensive to stop corps and people from filling whole systems with them. Make sure they can only be deployed around planets, moons etc (to avoid safe spots - unless the recon ships work as expected). Make them detecable on scanners so the aggressors have a chance to locate them if they choose to try looking (although in balance give no outside indication expcet to restricted people that there are satellites deployed in the system - like on the map - unless they are detected by a ship that is scanning the area. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Vel Kyri	Posted - 2004.03.08 07:22:00 - [7] Love the idea - and been saying it for a while - nerf the map. Personally i would go waaaaay further than this. But this is a good start. maybe allow "players in system" to show on the map in systems where you have gang/corp members or corp ofices (to allow for scouts/bases etc sending info back to you) the satellite is a great idea to - it acts as a litening post - it will show all the pilots in system. and when it is destroyed have it send an eve-mail to the owner (destroyed by...pilot/ship) yes, they should be made or orbit something - like a moon/planet. -----
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2004.03.09 14:02:00 - [8] Yes, it must be done.
knifee	Posted - 2004.03.09 19:36:00 - [9] I was thinking about this earlier, i like the idea of the map being a little more blind... but what if we took it a little further on? how about, if you blow a ship up in deep 0.0 it doesn't register on the map, unless the pilot of the lost ship makes it back to empire space/to a station to 'report' the incident. If he was pod killed then he would wake up in a station and make a report to concord right away, and the kill would show on the map. This way you could set up an ambush in 0.0 space and kill away until ppl filter back and tell concord, unless you sit there podding ppl in which case you become a big dot on the map.
EvilDoomer	Posted - 2004.03.09 21:58:00 - [10] Quote: Same here. Give players options to maybe deploy destructable objects that will relay information from a system such as rec or spy satellites. This means that if a corp or alliance wants to have a good awareness of the area around them they have to spend the time and isk setting up networks of satellites. Make the detectable on scanners and destructable so if another corp was thinking of launching an attack on the area they have to start locating and destroying the satellites in the system. As for balance make the satellites VERY expensive to stop corps and people from filling whole systems with them. Make sure they can only be deployed around planets, moons etc (to avoid safe spots - unless the recon ships work as expected). Make them detecable on scanners so the aggressors have a chance to locate them if they choose to try looking (although in balance give no outside indication expcet to restricted people that there are satellites deployed in the system - like on the map - unless they are detected by a ship that is scanning the area. I like this idea and its more realistic! Thanks EvilDoomer Chicago Mobsters Ghost Fleet Pilot

Draconis	Posted - 2004.04.18 01:03:00 - [11] One has to wonder if these forums are even looked over. Something has to be done about the fact that information travels so fast, and ships do not. Ambushes are impossible to setup, sneaking around is impossible.. With how vast and mysterious space is, CCP has sure made it very open and easy to observe every inch of it without really going anywhere. Jakob Remierat Oblivion Amalgamated Public Relations Nightmare
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.04.18 01:42:00 - [12] Edited by: Etoile Chercheur on 18/04/2004 04:14:30 this idea has me more excited than any other idea has in a long time! this would have a couple of important effects on EVE, positive ones i think: 1) Alliances would pull back, become more tightly integrated instead of spreading themselves out over region after region of space, zipping over and podding anyone that dares to step across their borders within minutes. 2) With the Pilots In Space feature not universally applicable, empire pilots in small corps or no corp at all would FINALLY feel reasonably free to explore 0.0 space, as long as they tread carefully. 3) With the space freed up by all Alliances pulling back and closing ranks, so to speak, new and smaller Alliances would form, and even individual corps would venture out to 0.0 mine and hunt. 4) Piracy would finally have enough prey to be both fun and profitable, as not everyone in 0.0 will always be part of a massive Alliance gank-fleet that will a$$rape you minutes after take them out. the only thing i would add to this is this: if ships can't be kept track of in 0.0 space outside of Empire, then there shouldn't be support for Local out there either. how many people here reading this thread use Local in 0.0 space to communicate with other ships? raise of hands please... okay, and how many people here use Local in 0.0 as a handy attack-force/pirate detector that not only instantly tells you that someone's entered the system and how many of them there are, but who they are? yeah, that's what i thought... Local in 0.0 needs to be inactive, as well as instant-tracking in deep space (0.0 non-Empire) of any and all activities purely via the map. make Alliances patrol their spaces, not watch the bloody map. this would be a very, very good thing to put in place. i can't concieve of a reason why people would object to this. the disadvantages work against your opponents just as well, turning them into your advantages... Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Draconis	Posted - 2004.04.18 02:04:00 - [13] Yup, EVE would drastically become more fun.. Tracking players would be hard though without Local, CCP would have to add more tracking agents as well as players who had the ability to track other players and report their locations for a price. Jakob Remierat Oblivion Amalgamated Public Relations Nightmare
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.04.18 02:17:00 - [14] Edited by: Etoile Chercheur on 18/04/2004 02:18:57 Quote: Yup, EVE would drastically become more fun.. Tracking players would be hard though without Local, CCP would have to add more tracking agents as well as players who had the ability to track other players and report their locations for a price. exactly. it would be a CHALLENGE. to me, Local has always been silly. i want my deep space travel to mysterious and dark, like driving down a dark country road, only able to see what's immediately in front of the car within range of the headlights. as it is now, metaphoricly speaking, not only is every country road as brightly lit as every city street, but the cellphones work EVERYWHERE. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
D'argo	Posted - 2004.04.18 02:18:00 - [15] this is an excellent idea drac- how many times have we stared at a blob on the map in U-Q when our fleet is in 0SHT? staring contests are not much fun, and if the "show players in space" was gone from 0.0 it could make the game more interesting.
Imperishable	Posted - 2004.04.18 02:19:00 - [16] I support this idea
Tau Neutrino	Posted - 2004.04.18 04:05:00 - [17] Good idea - I support it.
Uuldahan	Posted - 2004.04.18 06:14:00 - [18] Can I join you? Excellent idea
Viceroy	Posted - 2004.04.18 06:58:00 - [19] I say, you can do anything you want with the map, nerf it to hell if you wish, as long as you just make it refresh faster than it does currently. 5-10 minutes for an update is tooo much and it makes the map pointless. Fix teh refresh rate! -
Agenor Deteis	Posted - 2004.04.18 08:58:00 - [20] yes...great idea! The satellites would be awesome! But if you kill the "numbers in space option" the "kills in the last h /24h" must stay...so you can still avoit gate campers! P.S: Excuse my poor English _________________________________________________

Vel Kyri	Posted - 2004.04.18 09:07:00 - [21] OK, this is a good one - been thinking more about it. while your ships are in space - you can NOT refresh the map. You have the map loaded to your client and it stays that way. When your ship docks - there should be a service at MAJOR stations which allows you to "update map" - basically showing ships killed, station services, etc. * pilots in space should never be shown. * Pilots jumping should never be shown. * pilots docked should never be shown outside empire space, and information only available on a empire-per-empire basis. (ie, Minmatar only give their onformation to other minmatar stations) * pilots killed should be shown by concord - this data would come from insurance/clones etc. This information should be available from any concord owned station. we need scouts. it is good for all the above reasons. The map should be a fairly static thing - and information from it should be difficult to get. -----
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.04.18 09:26:00 - [22] Edited by: Etoile Chercheur on 18/04/2004 09:29:35 Quote: yes...great idea! The satellites would be awesome! But if you kill the "numbers in space option" the "kills in the last h /24h" must stay...so you can still avoit gate campers! P.S: Excuse my poor English nah, that would defeat the whole purpose... what's the use of being able to sneak around if any kill you make is instantaneously reported to EVERYONE. if there are blockades in 0.0, pilots should find out the hard way. that's the whole friggin' point. danger and suprise... danger and suprise! Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Odaroff	Posted - 2004.04.18 11:44:00 - [23] A further note on satellites - there should be a limit on how many satellites you can deploy, over and above a high cost. For example, some formula that took into account the number of offices you support, the number of systems you have offices in, the number of total SP of all your corp's pilots, or some other mesure of the size and strength of your corp. would determine the umber of spy satellites you could deploy, with a further limit of requiring relay satellites to connect satellites in systems that are not adjacent to a system you have an office in, possibly even relay systems between offices in disparate systems. As far as things like map updates go, why shouldn't you be able to update you ship's map in space? It makes sense that as long as you are in Concord space you will have access to the Concord net, with continual updates of the map...stray from concord space, and you suffer a dearth of information.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.04.19 02:57:00 - [24] The ability to dock at NPC stations and buy maps from them, accuracy may vary would be great, the constellations they offer for sale at that one time also should vary as to not make this a simple sureshot hassle but an actual gamble. Convert Stations
Goldar Hektu	Posted - 2004.04.19 08:09:00 - [25] Edited by: Goldar Hektu on 19/04/2004 08:21:07 Some random thoughts Not really sure about the spy sattelittes. Sounds cool in theory, but in practice it would be really difficult to price them so that it's expensive enough to limit their use, but not so expensive that no one will bother they are destructible. It would probably take a lot of trial and error before sattelites would be well balanced. And a whole lot of crying and flame wars. I like the idea of keeping local, but clearing the list of pilots in the channel. Pilots would be able to taunt each other, but sneaking around would still be viable. It might also be interesting to allow pilots to voluntarily appear in local. Pilots could make themselves appear in local in order to intimidate or flush out other pilots. This is probably asking way too much, but there could be more of a grey area in the loss of map features. Map information and local could be provided at different qualities of service by different corps. Concord would provide information on all systems in .5 and above, factions would report on their territory and adjacent 0.0 systems, and corps would report on any system they inhabit. The actual information provided would vary by standings. When provided by a corp, the type of corp would also affect the type of information. For example, any corp could tell you the number of pilots in space, or pilots docked at *their* stations, but only military corps would tell how many ships were destroyed in the last hour. Pilots with no corp or faction standings, and non-negative sec status, would get full information on high sec space (.8 - 1.0), and it would gradually degrade from there. Pilots who don't run missions could purchase map services from corps, which a subscription time like lab services. Factions could also sell map services, but would probably limit access to faction members. Pilots with negative standings would be refused map services. There would be a distinct advantgage to operating in your native territory or within your network of corps. Pilots could act as guides to certain areas of space, having greased the wheels through either missions or isk. Corps and factions could also base the information they provide about pilots on the pilots standing with the organization. For example, I am in a system ruled by Serpentis. Two other pilots are in the same system, one with neutral standings, the other with positive standings with Serpentis. I have negative standings. I get no data from Serpentis, so I don't see either of them. The pilot with positive standings sees both of the other pilots in system. The pilot with neutral standings sees only me. Why does he see me? Because Serpentis doesn't like me, and will broadcast my presence in order to make life uncomfortable for me. Your 150mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Serpentis Drug Baron, wrecking for 192.8 damage.
Scorpyn	Posted - 2004.04.19 10:21:00 - [26] Several interesting and good (at least they seem good) ideas in this thread.
Whiskey Leech	Posted - 2004.04.19 11:36:00 - [27] Quote: Same here. Give players options to maybe deploy destructable objects that will relay information from a system such as rec or spy satellites. This means that if a corp or alliance wants to have a good awareness of the area around them they have to spend the time and isk setting up networks of satellites. Make the detectable on scanners and destructable so if another corp was thinking of launching an attack on the area they have to start locating and destroying the satellites in the system. As for balance make the satellites VERY expensive to stop corps and people from filling whole systems with them. Make sure they can only be deployed around planets, moons etc (to avoid safe spots - unless the recon ships work as expected). Make them detecable on scanners so the aggressors have a chance to locate them if they choose to try looking (although in balance give no outside indication expcet to restricted people that there are satellites deployed in the system - like on the map - unless they are detected by a ship that is scanning the area. Really like this idea, and the expensive satellites should have a fairly high shield/armour, and as with stations you should get info-mails if someone shoots at it. that way you cant just launch a couple of cruisers from a frig and destroy equipment worth X million ISK, but has to bring in some battleships and spend time to destroy it while defending the system thats probably in youre enemys territory. That way you can counter the attack and boost the sattelite again (or repair with repairdrones thats hopefully also in game soon), if youre sucessfully chase the enemy off. Also make for some 'bait and catch' tactic, lure the ebil enemy by shooting at hes satellite, while youre fleet stands by in the next system etc. This might not sound too fun for ppl that like me has spent large amount of time with take over and sheild-boost stations only to lose it when you have to loggoff, the diffrence here are that the satellite will be totaly lost if you cant defent it properly. Also for that reason, it would be nice to have an option to deploy them as alliance property, (like you now can launch a sec can for youreself or for the corp) then the alliance system are implemented, that way you can have better chance defending them 23/7.
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.04.19 14:17:00 - [28] Edited by: Etoile Chercheur on 19/04/2004 14:21:06 i'm not sure about the satellites and all the rest, but so far the single, most simple idea out of this thread still excites me: make the list of people in Local invisible and remove the ability to detect the prescence of other ships via the map (pilots in space, ships destroyed, jumps, etc.) so that pilots may sneak in deep space (aka 0.0). this relatively simple thing would change the face of EVE and drasticly alter large-scale combat for the better in many positive ways. the rest can be refined and worked in later, i feel. personally, i don't like the idea of spy satellites, as the players themselves need to be doing the spying, not leaving behind technological substitutes for the lack of map info. the only suggestion i would make about these is to limit their use to one system. that way, a single spy could moniter all the gates in a key system, for example, but he'd have to be there. you could call them "Proximity Sentries", an anchorable device that self-cloaks when activated and reports back to the user (should they be in the same system) as to whether there is anyone within visual range of the device (each would have it's own window exactly like the Auto tab of our own scanners. there would be, of course, technology and skills to detect these, and when destroyed, the window reporting info back to the user would close. this anti-spy technology should be costly to have equipped, so that counteracting a spy's carefully placed sentries would not be a simple matter for just anyone to do, but would require a specialized member of a patrol. 0.0 should be dark and mysterious, and we should NOT know what's going on out there unless we're right there to see it happening with our own eyes... or proximity sentries. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Teen	Posted - 2004.04.19 15:12:00 - [29] what can i say, there's not much more to add... other than that i LOVE these two ideas: * remove the possibility to list people in local, but allow chatting * remove the ability to see number of people, ships/npcs destroyed, people docked, jumps from < 0.5 about the sentry/spy-deployables: * make them fairly costly * make them detectable but cloaked * limit the number of sentries a person can have deployed at the same time (high rank skill, one per level at the most) * limit the life span of the sentries * have them work like the auto-scanner; no system-wide detection here * make them only work if you are within; the same solar-system/the same constallation/the same region... one of the above (i'd personally like the same solar-system idea ;)) yes, i know i'm merely repeating what others said ;). Miss August 2003 - http://eve.unnerf.com/
Whiskey Leech	Posted - 2004.04.19 16:07:00 - [30] Edited by: Whiskey Leech on 19/04/2004 16:09:28 Im all for limiting the map, but not for not listing ppl in local, if we dont have local, people will, 'miss' each other and that will cause much less player vs player interaction, while the map nerfing would increase it, forcing people to move around and bumb into each other more. Also, to have the satellites would create some alliance made infrastructure and some real motivation to hold ground and buildup youre defence, since the defender should have the upper hand then it comes to defending an area. (the attacker can launch the attack at any time, thats there strong side).

Drutort	Posted - 2004.04.19 17:02:00 - [31] Edited by: Drutort on 19/04/2004 17:04:38 i will admit i didnt read every reply, but i just wanted to add if it wasnt added yet... how about a ship class that doesnt show up on the map? an elite frig type? it could be part of a skill for the ship? maybe it can cloak say a few ppl in your gang because of your ship? that might be another idea, but would be small number like 2 or 3 ppl and it could be even a leadership skill and only elite frig's could be cloaked like this from the map view of players? oh the reasoning could be that there signature is so small, that it doesnt get picked up by the systems or gates scanners? until say some hostile action has been taken then the system identifies that target.... IMO great idea though just some ideas support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.04.19 21:49:00 - [32] Quote: Im all for limiting the map, but not for not listing ppl in local, if we dont have local, people will, 'miss' each other and that will cause much less player vs player interaction... well, that's the thing, tho. a fleet should be able to have some element of surprise. you see fifty ships pop up in Local, and then you know to report an incoming attack force, all without actually seeing the attack force via spy sentries or your own eyes. detection of the enemy should be a matter of effort on your part, not a default feature of the system. discovering a trap or spy should involve actually discovering something. you scan ahead with your sensors to take a peek at the next stargate... oh crap! seven battleships! all enemies by the look of their ship names... you take another route, go a couple of systems, and then notice something odd on your next broadscan of the current system... a small ship... also unknown to you... couple of quick pokes around lead you to believe it's in orbit around the sun! you warp in, quickly lock on and verify it's enemy status, and then quickly bring an end to the spy scum! it's intrigue, dammit. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Arrik	Posted - 2004.04.19 22:14:00 - [33] How about, rather than Local displaying all the pilots in the system, it only displays and broadcasts to players in the same realspace location (the same grid) as you in non-empire space. This would reflect the diminishing numbers of comms satellites and relay stations in the less umm...reputable regions, while still allowing for the possibility of communication over local in the unlikely event of someone wanting to (at least it's free, unlike a convo) In empire space the comms networks are just dandy, so they can continue to display all people in system as before. Couple this with the removal of Show players in Space and Pilots Docked and Active, and you suddenly reintroduce the need for people to start looking at their scanner, and performing systemwide scans to scout it out. Recon becomes viable and necessary again, and patrolling is a necessity. Add the right click -> communicate options to the scanner for ships, and you've got everything you could ever ask for. It also makes Covert Ops frigates even more useful...
Amacor	Posted - 2004.04.20 16:33:00 - [34] I'm a relative newbie to Eve... but I like this idea. It seems to make a whole lot of sense. I do have some points... 1. Local should be hidden, but if you speak (make a broadcast) you reveal yourself to anyone in local watching. (signal detection). As should using a 'un-secured' channel for communications 2. Map shuold only refresh as far as you can personally gather information (gate usage from gates, ships on scanner, kills from billboards perhaps) 3. Map should not contain any information about players, or locations of them. it's a map, not a directory.
Gardarsdottir	Posted - 2004.04.20 16:43:00 - [35] yes i Agree with this idea 0,0 space should be wild and when you set number of pilots in system the map would say Unknown. But i think this should also applie for 0,4 - 0,1 but it would then say the scale like 10 - 20 pilots are in this system.
Dallenn	Posted - 2004.04.20 16:58:00 - [36] How about: 0.0 space always lists 0 pilots. 0.1 to 1.0 space is sampled every minute by the system for the number of pilots. When you look at your map, you will see the average of 30 last samplings (ie. an average of 30 min) for each system. Might improve perfomance slightly, then again would improve complexity too... We seek the Chosen ones / Roleplaying in Eve / Idea Lab favourites I am Paratwa / Of the Ash Ock A Guardian of time / The firestorm / That purifies
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.04.20 17:29:00 - [37] Edited by: Etoile Chercheur on 20/04/2004 17:30:38 a gradually increasing limitation in the info the map provides in lower and lower security levels is interesting, and it would make RP sense. lowering the refresh rate of those areas would make sense, with 0.0 having a "zero" refresh rate, meaning that no dynamic information is given whatsoever: 0.1 would be updated once every 2 hours. 0.2 every 1.5 hours 0.3 every 1 hours 0.4 every half hour 0.5 and up, being Concord-patrolled space, would be updated constantly. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Atansa	Posted - 2004.04.20 20:53:00 - [38] The show players needs to be stoped for the simple reason of I can not go mining in a 0.0 for that reason alone.
Duraeli	Posted - 2004.04.20 22:34:00 - [39] Etoile I think hit the nail right on the head...it would be stupid to remove the information from CONCORD controlled space (0.5+) since you would expect CONCORD to have an accurate idea of what's going on within their jurisdiction (Even though they don't always protect as expected). Past 0.5 though, updates should be graduated to 0/time period...I won't repeat what Etoile said, but you get the idea. This would definitely improve the state of the game. As it is, you can't deep-space mine or approach any of the alliances without recieving a warm welcome... ---------------------------------------------- "He that will not apply new remedies must expect new evils; for time is the greatest innovator." -Unknown --------------------------------------
juel	Posted - 2004.04.20 23:08:00 - [40] I think this is an awsum idea. If you want to patrol and protect your portion of 0.0 then have people there oding it instead of sitting in station somehere and watching me for instance sneak in and sending people after me. Lotf of good reasons for removal. Why on earth should I, in the middle of gallente space, be able to see movement in 0.0 40 or more jumps away? It doesnt make sense. Bring back the mystery. You also would get people moving back out to 0.0 I believe. thanks

Baggam	Posted - 2004.04.21 11:58:00 - [41] Yes I fully support this *****ind idea from Draconis. I also like the Local channel idea from Etoile. Please implement this now CCP
kagorsa	Posted - 2004.04.22 20:54:00 - [42] This is the most exciting thread i have read yet it's a shame we don't see ccp adding a few comments im sure they'll learn how to read "SOON" I would just like to add a few things to the already bursting list. 1. Instead of deployable satellites why not have satellite ships which have very high armor and basic guns which could only be bought in 0.0 space if they enter empire space they loose there relay ability in other words they become a shuttle you could also limit them to two per corp and they could only be purchased from the corp funds which would stop corp members bying one each. 2. I agree there should be no info atall on the map in 0.0 towards other players all you should be able to see are the stations and systems after all this is supposed to be a game of exploration\teamwork\battle\suprise etc.etc. 3. Keep local but put a box to tick to weather you want to be seen or not which will have no efect in empire space. 4. This is what eve needs an injection of suprise "THE UNKNOWN"
Hargard	Posted - 2004.04.23 03:24:00 - [43] Originally by: Etoile Chercheur the only thing i would add to this is this: if ships can't be kept track of in 0.0 space outside of Empire, then there shouldn't be support for Local out there either. how many people here reading this thread use Local in 0.0 space to communicate with other ships? raise of hands please... okay, and how many people here use Local in 0.0 as a handy attack-force/pirate detector that not only instantly tells you that someone's entered the system and how many of them there are, but who they are? yeah, that's what i thought... Local in 0.0 needs to be inactive, as well as instant-tracking in deep space (0.0 non-Empire) of any and all activities purely via the map. make Alliances patrol their spaces, not watch the bloody map. this would be a very, very good thing to put in place. i can't concieve of a reason why people would object to this. the disadvantages work against your opponents just as well, turning them into your advantages... I like the idea of less info in low sec areas. Though I think local should be active, but not show a list of who is in the area. Make it work more like a CB. You only know if somebody is in the area if they actualy broadcast it. If they maintain "radio silence" they go undetected.
Cracken	Posted - 2004.04.23 03:37:00 - [44] I agree with the sensors arrays but a way too counter them like current electronic warfare systems do by creating ghost images would also enhance gameplay that when the different types of sensors might come into play while say the array has radar based sensors why not have a specific module too confuse it creating incomplete or inaccurate information have the module have a cap drain and different sizes too cover different types of ships.
EVE Helper	Posted - 2004.04.23 07:03:00 - [45] DEV BUMP Moderators, make this thread a sticky now! :-) Seriously I think the devs are way to wrapped up in thinkering with big complex issues like the modules, corp management functions, markets etc. And fail to see that there are a plethora of easy to fix issues (often features) that if removed or slightly reworked would have a profound positive impact on the game. Map nerfing is just one of them!
Nomispanco	Posted - 2004.04.23 07:37:00 - [46] I like this idea! my idea is to have a limited range (about 5 jumps?) where the map shows the players in space or something like that.
DeathStar	Posted - 2004.04.23 08:01:00 - [47] Ok dont look like we are going to get some reply from ccp, so how about it be brought up at the next CMS when ever that is.... Or maybe a new post should be made on the Discussions forum?
ZhouTai	Posted - 2004.04.23 10:41:00 - [48] Edited by: ZhouTai on 23/04/2004 10:46:46 My first post and I messed up, please read below. _______________________________________________ Respect to all whom have gone down in a blaze of glory, and to those who got them,
ZhouTai	Posted - 2004.04.23 10:44:00 - [49] BUMP!!!! Love this idea DEVS PLEASE PLEASE read this and do as your fans wish I hate not being able to go to 0.0 because as soon as I do I get my A$$ podded, If this horrible feature was gone, alot!! more people would goto 0.0 to mine and NPC kill ETC and bring much more diversity to the game _______________________________________________ Respect to all whom have gone down in a blaze of glory, and to those who got them,
Mabon	Posted - 2004.04.23 12:18:00 - [50] /agree This game lacks elements of surprise, and this should be addressed.

Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.04.24 02:46:00 - [51] well, Devs. this idea seems to have garnered a lot of enthusiastic support. i also request a sticky! i think that a group of ideas that would have such a drastic and positive effect on the game deserves special attention. i also support the idea of this group of ideas being brought up at the next CSM, whenever that might be, and whoever it's members might be. i'm going to read through the thread again, and try to come up with a comprehensive summary of the ideas, including all variations on those ideas. that way, people can just read the summary and comment from that without having to go through the whole thing. i'll post in this thread, possibly in a new thread if this one dies out. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Sicori Malaki	Posted - 2004.04.24 04:43:00 - [52] holy ***** **, I love this idea, this is THE best idea I've ever seen on this forum. I agree with most of what has been said but I'd like 1 thing thou about "Pilots jumping should never be shown." it would be ridiculous to have this information for free via the map I agree with that 100%, but what about letting players buy that information from whatever means are at current disposal, say a new station service, or new type of agent. and another idea about "player jumps"; have a special skill/Ability/equipment whatever that allows a player to "hack" a gate and it'll show lets say a statical graph on usage over tha past 36/48 hours(lets say the higher the skill level, and some other factions increase the timeline you'd get), so you'd get a fair information about the travel thru that gate, and could sell that information people who'd need it for varius reasons. there would of course be a required time to hack a gate and it would have to be balanced a bit to make it a special "career". anyhow, hope you will read this and tell me what you think :). and yes, remove pilots in local but keep the chat within a grid in 0.0 ______________ Only in the Tales that humans tell, do the hunters kill the wolf in the end.
Karhig Duruckhai	Posted - 2004.04.25 14:10:00 - [53] Edited by: Karhig Duruckhai on 25/04/2004 14:12:20 I havent read all the posts, as they all seam to be in support so I have no-one to beat down. Lots of good ideas to be considered. Most of them are just variations to implementation though, I fully back the idea of getting rid of the local/pilots in space features. They're a pain in the arse for sneaking around. How to effectively implement it? Well, there are plenty of ideas in this thread already. I'd be tempted to tie it to alliance controlled sentry guns. If an alliance wants to know numbers of people going through their territory they should have to deploy a comprehensive sentry gun network around gates, much like there is in empire now. This would mean that alliances would need to invest vast amounts of money into getting this info, the sentries could be destroyed, and so remove the info, and it would directly limit the amount of space which could be controlled. Imagine CA trying to deploy sentry guns on EVERY gate in all the regions we control. That would be some task. Whilst deploying sentries (or whatever) on limited entry gates you could get usage statistics, and accurate information on that sub-net of systems, they would not provide info on the entire galaxy. I could live with that. On the offense, you'd need to use scouts and recon elements to provide tactical information on the enemy positions, and to take out sentry guns (or satalites or whatever) before the main attack. This would lead to battles being more campaign based as well, rather than just one off. If you had to spend three or four days running anti-sentry ops before moving your main fleet in, that would be a good thing. Would make the dynamics or war far more interesting. regards,
Jake Pliskin	Posted - 2004.04.25 16:39:00 - [54] bringing it back to the top. flutters this post up against his monitor screen please bring this topic up at the next CSM questions session
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.04.26 05:00:00 - [55] Nerf the map to hell! Convert Stations
Dallenn	Posted - 2004.04.26 13:56:00 - [56] Nerfing local would create issues, I am afraid. It is a very convenient way for locating your friends and enemies. Because running away is easy in Eve, if you couldn't even locate your enemy with reasonable efficiency, there would be little combat and kills. At the very least one would need to compensate with ship scanners or sensor networks. Deployable sensors could be a good idea. One issue would be how to keep Concord from interfering when you attack sensors of other players. However once this is solved sensors will be balanced because you will constantly lose your sensors to attacks by enemy players and just random griefers dropping by. The replacing of sensor networks would then be the task of the players which can't do active combat in your corp, so this is a good idea because it gives everybody a role in corp wars, not just the experienced players. Also hunting for enemy sensors doesn't require that much, just a frigate and some guns, just hope you are out before the defenses come in... Sensors could be variable - some might come with shields so they'd be hard to destroy once you also deploy defenses. Others could give you more detailed info like who is in the system and in which part of the system, not just the number of pilots in space. CCP could nerf the map and local step by step, while introducing sensors step by step (these two processes could be seen independent), seeing how well these ideas work. We seek the Chosen ones / Roleplaying in Eve / Idea Lab favourites I am Paratwa / Of the Ash Ock A Guardian of time / The firestorm / That purifies
Taffun	Posted - 2004.04.26 17:33:00 - [57] I don't know about nerfing local... but I think buddy lists should be for buddies. As is, people use them to see if their favorite opponent logged in. I want to control who has me on their list.
Sphalerite	Posted - 2004.04.26 18:25:00 - [58] great ideas. So many oppertunities for new roles here.
Malvada	Posted - 2004.04.26 19:11:00 - [59] Edited by: Malvada on 26/04/2004 19:15:10 typo! Originally by: Dallenn Nerfing local would create issues, I am afraid. It is a very convenient way for locating your friends and enemies. Because running away is easy in Eve, if you couldn't even locate your enemy with reasonable efficiency, there would be little combat and kills. At the very least one would need to compensate with ship scanners or sensor networks. that seems to be the idea... make Alliances work for their surveilance, not just include it as a feature that everyone has at all times. personally, i think that because running away is so easy in EVE, there are less kills because of the way things are now! Quote: Deployable sensors could be a good idea. One issue would be how to keep Concord from interfering when you attack sensors of other players. However once this is solved sensors will be balanced because you will constantly lose your sensors to attacks by enemy players and just random griefers dropping by. huh? this thread appears to mostly be about restricting Local and map statistics in 0.0, which makes sense since there wouldn't be communication networks out there. Local in Empire is no problem, but making 0.0 more mysterious and enabling ppl to sneak around is the point here. Quote: The replacing of sensor networks would then be the task of the players which can't do active combat in your corp, so this is a good idea because it gives everybody a role in corp wars, not just the experienced players. Also hunting for enemy sensors doesn't require that much, just a frigate and some guns, just hope you are out before the defenses come in... yes! an exciting new profession, like a game of Risk, with the enemy placing his pieces into your territory to spy! how fun would that be! Quote: Sensors could be variable - some might come with shields so they'd be hard to destroy once you also deploy defenses. Others could give you more detailed info like who is in the system and in which part of the system, not just the number of pilots in space. both good ideas. Quote: CCP could nerf the map and local step by step, while introducing sensors step by step (these two processes could be seen independent), seeing how well these ideas work. i think changes could be full and simultaneous. Remove statistics that give away player activity in 0.0 from the map entirely. remove the chatters list from Local in 0.0(shouldn't even show buddies, as nothing stops you from adding an enemy as a buddy) provide anchorable sensor buoys (which require a nearby object to keep their bearings, so no safe-spot anchoring!) on the Market that provide information varrying with how expensive they are (you deploy your cheap sensors far out, and your expensive ones closer in). have a specialized starmap for all corps within an Alliance (sensor nets could have a corp list, which the moderator of the sensor net could add and remove corps from depending on who joins or leaves the Alliance). these sensor buoys would know the difference between ally ships and enemy/unknown ships, and report them appropriately. Alliances would then have to work for their information, and sneak attacks would finally be possible. i notice that Etoile Chercheur has a quite probable list of changes in the way things would be played in this thread. all that stuff too. Viceroy > so whats the problem? the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts? the hlynsiman > no by mining Viceroy > terrorist mining?
Selak Zorander	Posted - 2004.04.26 19:34:00 - [60] I think this topic holds many great ideas. I am surprised that not one reply has said this topic sucks (I read every reply I seen so far, and not one appears to be negative like some of the other threads with this same topic). That being said, Right now I have no big desire to travel into 0.0 space. Why? I know how many people are in space and I can see exactly where all the gate campers are at. If I could not see that information does that mean they are not there, no, but it also means that if they are moving by a few gates, they cant see me coming from a mile off either. As for the local, I have mixed views on that but I think the idea of removing the list of people next to it is a good idea. Then yeah you can see who is in system if they say something like when two pilots argue about who is better or who can beat up on who. If I was in 0.0 space mining by my lonesome or in a group, and I was one of the unlucky ones that got my ship destroyed (or was getting attacked for that matter) I know I would be nice enough to put a shout out in Local to the effect of "Beware of x pilot in this system." just because I think it adds challenge to the game for the other player. If I could remember my location I may add that to the message too, but I have a hard time remember what belt I am in in any space. of course if you happened to be looking for that guy, tough luck for him if I manage to annouce he was there. Just my bit of input to a good idea in my opinion.

Teen	Posted - 2004.04.27 12:41:00 - [61] Strangely enough this thread found it's way to the third page and another thread discussing only the Local channel has emerged... I liked this better (much more valid points in here ;)), so BUMP! Miss August 2003 - http://eve.unnerf.com/
Malar	Posted - 2004.04.27 13:43:00 - [62] Seconded. The details on the map should be revisited one by one and everything that could hamper an individuals ability to lay amushes / sneak around others should be taken out. I'm talking about things like: concord / police / pirate / faction kills in system kills in system podkills in system number of pilots in space number of pilots docked jumps made in the last hour / day / etc just a few that hop into my mind. The current system is nice for sure, but the stats take too much away from the game to justify their exsistence. --------------------------------------------- Comments in this post are mine and mine only and are not the views held by Mercenary Forces Corp
Lachenlaud	Posted - 2004.04.27 15:04:00 - [63] The map function has a purpose, one of which is to 'see' what is going on in the game. I have found it to be an invaluable tool however, I must agree with the idea of 'nerfing' it in non-empire space. If the data that the map shows is supposed to be supplied by concord, then where concord has no 'sway' the map should be left blank in many aspects. EG - Players in space, etc. I do think that stations should still show up, since the story line shows concord having knowledge of the 'lost' stations out in 0.0 space. People talk of having the ability to set up 'ambushes' and making things more interesting by adding 'frigate' patrols to police their factions space. I like this idea as well. It will give people the oportunity to head into 0.0 space controlled by alliances in attempts to 'sneak attack', 'sneak survey and scout', and 'sneak mine'. As the current map stands, many people avoid 0.0 space because they know someone is always 'watching' for movement. The satellite idea is marvelous, but to go hand in hand with that I think that there should also be devices for 'counter-measures' against such satelites. Thus someone can fly into 0.0 space that is 'screened' from detection. (Perhaps an extra arm could be thrown on the skill-tree for being able to control such devices as well under the 'electronic warfare' branch of things.) All in all, I concur with what many have said here.. nerf the map - make it more 'realistic' a tool, and make life a little more interesting by adding opportunities for espionage/counter espionage by people being able to sneak in and out of non-empire space. [email protected] http://www.goi-eve.com/forums/ Check out the Eve Master Datasheet here!!
Malvada	Posted - 2004.04.27 22:00:00 - [64] Devs? anyone listening? give us a SIGN! we all really hope you're reading this thread, and taking notes. a lot of these changes would mean huge increases in the fun factor for this game, not that it isn't already fantastic... i'm not asking for a in-thread discussion, now. but an acknowledgement that this thread has been read by a Dev would be keen... here's to wishing.
Razaelle	Posted - 2004.04.27 23:41:00 - [65] Just an idea going through my mind about the local chat... As I have seen some would want to keep it as it is for some reasons in other threads... What about making the local chat list toggleable ? When activated, it works as usual, listing all the people with their list activated. When shutted down, you don't appear on the list, allowing for some sneaking operation... but as you don't have any list, you are basicely blind as well. It would be like having active and passive scanner mode... maybe the idea need to be tweaked but I think that letting people chose on what mode they want to operate is the way to go :)
Coeleth	Posted - 2004.04.28 02:47:00 - [66] Adding my support to this one. No pilots in space etc info in 0.0 Maybe delayed reports from 0.1 to 0.4
Dallenn	Posted - 2004.04.28 11:01:00 - [67] I think these ideas would change things quite a bit, and many complex factors are involved, so it's not safe to just introduce them in one go and see how everybody likes it. Also it takes time to come up with good ideas on variations of the basic concepts, and to implement them. Also different groups of players should be considered: Lots of RP-based PvP happens in (secure and insecure) empire space. 0.0 is controlled by mining alliances, and many RP corps have little business going there. If the changes only affect 0.0, a lot of players are gonna miss out. Then again maybe 0.0 should be enlargened... might help to address some exploits that can be done in insecure empire space. Sensors should play a part outside corp wars too, though this should be quite easy to do. Miners could deploy them to monitor their insecure cans or to warn of approaching pirates, mercenaries could track the movements of their prey, and so on. We seek the Chosen ones / Roleplaying in Eve / Idea Lab favourites I am Paratwa / Of the Ash Ock A Guardian of time / The firestorm / That purifies
Darmed Khan	Posted - 2004.04.28 12:35:00 - [68] Edited by: Darmed Khan on 28/04/2004 12:40:31 C'mon devs, do something! In my opinion all you have to do now is nerf the map. You can leave local chat, satellites, and all the other ideas listed in this thread until a few weeks later and see what people think needs doing. Surely one of you can spare a minute of your time to change a single line of code in a single function to just return a count of 0 players for systems in low sec. space?
Megan Ryder	Posted - 2004.04.29 13:14:00 - [69] i like the idea. gives scope to all kinds of new skills and items Warp Signature Analysis - detecting recent jump activity Warp Signature Detection - tracking Advanced Scanning - scanning 0/1j systems (overview data only) Advanced System Scanning - scanning current system (full pilot info) I'm looking forward to some pvp action when i'm all growed up, and this thread excites me with a plethora of possible occupations other than minaaan and fightaaan.. a gradual errosion from .4 down, loosing both map and local info. see whole post for some excellent ideas... possible way to implement it would be to rp the rats starting to attack concord infastructure in unsecure space, thereby allowing a gradual degradation from where we are now, people will have to wean them off the map as the data becomes gradually less reliable in low sec space. Megan
Megan Ryder	Posted - 2004.04.29 13:25:00 - [70] sry, I forgot... I really like the mapping idea to go with this concept. If a new area of space were to be opened up, but without being added to everyones map. If you go to the last system on the map, unmapped stargates are avail, your personal map recording the new systems as you go. Given the Mapping skill and lots of time you create a map that can then be copied and sold. Maybe you have to be in system for a reqd time to add to your map... I think this is a biggy devwise, but cool idea tho Megan

Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.04.29 15:09:00 - [71] Quote: I think these ideas would change things quite a bit, and many complex factors are involved, so it's not safe to just introduce them in one go and see how everybody likes it. It didn't stop the highway now did it. Nerf the map to hell and then poke it some with a red hot poker till you're sure it's dead and comfy down the abyss. Convert Stations
Slam	Posted - 2004.04.30 08:04:00 - [72] I was about to write a post on this exact topic - good thing I looked a few pages back. For the content of this thread is the single most important thing to "correct" in Eve right now. This would provide enormous fun for the player base in the 0.0 sec areas. In the case this thread do not reach the developers ears: IF you have any contacts to people participating in the next csm chat - make sure the contents of this thread is noticed by CCP!
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2004.04.30 10:24:00 - [73] I fully support this It might have been mentioned before, but I would like to see this modification: - allow ships to "squawk" if they desire for both the map and local This way, if you want to be anonymous, you can. If you want any/everybody to find you, you, no problem! I think this and the crappy sec rating issue should be Priority #1 for CCP. And this post should be a sticky If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Moah	Posted - 2004.04.30 11:24:00 - [74] omg am I teh only one who hate this idea? I want to know where ppl are, i want to know where my enemy is mining, without having 10 spys in frigates scouting the systems. sry but its just a stupid idea. "more surprise", blabla, until you run in a blockade an lose your ship... call me a carebear or whatever, it just makes traveling in 0.0 slower and near impossible for a commander to see were the enemy, assistance, etc. is.... the only good idea in this thread was from Drutort: Quote: how about a ship class that doesnt show up on the map? an elite frig type? it could be part of a skill for the ship? Fancy.
Malvada	Posted - 2004.05.01 05:51:00 - [75] Originally by: Moah omg am I teh only one who hate this idea? it would seem so. every point you've tried to make has already been dealt with in this thread. excellent thread! so many positive ideas, and while some are a little too complicated, i believe a blank Local chatters list in 0.0 and no stats for player activity at all (includes everything that would give away the presence of pilots) on the map in 0.0 would be easy and simple to implement. these ideas seem to have the most promise. technology for keeping track of the enemy in 0.0 can be introduced later, but with everyone flying blind in 0.0, the odds are even. you don't know where they are, and they don't know were you are. i love it! Viceroy > so whats the problem? the hlynsiman > a former corp member of mine stole some money of me and i need it back Viceroy > did you earn the money by commiting terrorist acts? the hlynsiman > no by mining Viceroy > terrorist mining?
Raedon	Posted - 2004.05.12 05:53:00 - [76] Edited by: Raedon on 12/05/2004 05:55:12 Not many seem to have written a negative reply to the topic so I thought perhaps I'll add some balance... If we remove Local Chat and the map "Pilots in Space" option, this helps some PvPs but what about the ones that want to catch players mining or fighting in the asteroid fields? Remove the local and there will be a pirate alert chat channel similar to trade so everyone will still know where pirates are camped. That means that the pirate is then disadvantaged. The way things are currently implemented, Pirates can see where players are and head to the appropriate gates to catch them on the way back. Another point is that although many people would like to scout ahead, I think the majority of players want to get on with mining, NPC Hunting, etc. If it takes someone 14 jumps just to check out a system, that's 30 mins out of my game time that I believe most people could do without. It does work both ways for pirates and the hunted. I personally believe it is easier to check the map before bothering to sit at a gate and local can alert me to the fact that people will soon be coming through (also gives me a chance to taunt them - haha). The flow of players from system to system also assists me in determining if they are coming or going... That said, I do see the merits of removing the facilities or at least changing them slightly.
Vel Kyri	Posted - 2004.05.12 11:28:00 - [77] Another shamelss bump. i soo want these its not funny. I would go so far as to remove a system even showing up until you have a bookmark in that system - and the info about stations/planets/belts doesn't show until you have bookmarks for those items. make the map basically the "bookmark viewer" - if you have no bookmarks, then you have no map. -----
Fto Cruise	Posted - 2004.05.12 12:07:00 - [78] Many many benefits for doing this Draconis. I for one would welcome it. Let's get rid of local too. And the idea of making your own map from starting out is also good. Only one drawback, pvpers would be able to sit in the entry 0.0 systems unnoticed. There are probably many ways around that tho. One might be a new type of drone that you send through the jumpgate 1st to scout for you. Results of it's report would have to be based on skill level. There would also be a chance to knock out the drone before it made it's report. That way the user would know something was there, but not what (enter at own risk). Another way would be to have 3 or 4 jumpgates into 0.0 from the same empire system. Ie. torrinos only goes to ec-p8r. So add 3 more jumps into 0.0 from that system and you stand a better chance of getting past the first jump. On the whole though, i think the game is crying out for this. More access to 0.0 means more PvP. Now i'm not a pvper, but without it this game doesnt exist. Nice one Draconis, repeat this topic weekly until it is made so. Manufacturers of the 425mm Railgun II
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.05.12 15:23:00 - [79] Bump there it is. Nerf the map to hell and beyond! Convert Stations
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.05.12 15:52:00 - [80] i'd encourage all those who are interested in this thread to take the time to read the whole thing, as there are some terrific ideas here. i was going to make a summary, but RL intrudes on my play time enough as is. i heartily believe in the basic ideas presented here in this thread, namely a lack of map info and Local chatter's list in 0.0 space. info out in the frontier should be aquired through players actively gathering info and reporting back to others, not handed to them on a silver platter. if players are going to create a "pirate alert" channel, fine. nothing stopping the pirates from creating a "potential targets" channel, to share info about where corps are active in 0.0 and whether they pay out ransoms. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards

Moonracer	Posted - 2004.05.12 16:35:00 - [81] Great ideas. Low sec should be more of a mystery. Only thing I think needs to stay is number of pods destroyed (number of ships destroyed would be good too, also both would be reportable because of insurance/cloning). I really like the satelite station idea. I think if they were deployed in "safe spots" that would be good as well as it would add more of a challenge to scouts/explorers. Maybe a limit of 10 max satelites would be good. Would still allow a corp to dominate a fairly large sector. If you mix satelites with deployable turrets and other deployable corp items you basically have corp fortresses to attack and defend, which make for interesting corp war toys.
Demangel	Posted - 2004.05.14 05:28:00 - [82] I vote strongly in favor of removing the "show pilots in space" idea. As for the removal of Local, I would suggest that CCP do one the following: A: Leave the channel alone, we need to an open local channel to talk to people with sometimes, but don't let it say who is present, if someone wants to be noticed, let them broadcast a signal. B: Leave the channel alone, we need the channel sometimes for legit uses, but allow players to "hide" thier pressance in local. IF either of A or B is in place, then CCP really NEEDS to: Create a module, or deployable that will allow the owner/corp/whatever to know someone has entered. In other words, The won't show up on local channels unless the player has the module activated, or is freidnly with the surveliance deployable. The module and deployable need not give away exact coordinates, but it should reveal players in a system who are otherwise hidden. In response to this, CCP should consider a "radio silence" module for individual ships. It's essentialy an EW device that Keeps the ship harder to spot on local. For either of the detection devices, the player should have to be in the same system to do a scan and see who is present. Not have a way to access this remotely. Anyway I agree, I would Adore the Show players in space/docked option be removed... It takes away the feeling of a fog of war effect, and just makes one more aspect of EVE predictable that should be more player skill/chance oriented. Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you Demangel > Dude... I would call.. Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet. Galaxion > Just a bit.
Codetwister	Posted - 2004.05.14 20:37:00 - [83] I like the idea of; 1. Removing number of pilots in space. 2. Giving people the option of showing up in local channel. But I'd like to add to this concept (forgive me if this idea was already posted, but I scanned the thread and didn't see it yet), so here goes... I think player-owned structures should have the option of being listed in the map or the system directory regardless of what type of structure it may be. For example: A person\corp\alliance should be able to build a structure (station, refinery, etc) and anchor it wherever they want (whether it be limited to a planetary body or not doesn't matter to me) and then set an option that says "Display this structure on map (or system directory... the right-click option) for person\corp\alliance members only, or for all pilots (in current system or all of Eve". This would remove the ability for somebody to simply warp to your structure unless you set it to be listed in the system directory. It would certainly add a new spin to the game. It would allow smaller corps and alliances to build their strength with less a chance of somebody attacking them unless the agressor takes the time to actually "explore" or recon the system in order to find them first. It would also make large corps\alliances learn new strategies in order to secure their "Region". Of course people would have to take the bad with the good such as... If your station is not "registered" in the map you would not be able to sell items on the open market from your station. I keep coming up with more ideas related to this and could keep going and going, but I'd like to get some feedback on this idea... Pegasus Mining and Securities
MadGaz	Posted - 2004.05.15 17:23:00 - [84] Good ideas so far, maybe on the local channel issue: It wont display the current people in the system, but you can still talk in it, it will say your name when you broadcast a message yes, but otherwise they wont know you are there. ------------------------------------------
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.05.15 17:57:00 - [85] i'm glad this thread keeps getting rediscovered and commented on and supported. shows that these ideas, at least the more feasible amongst them, are definitely something the vast majority of the player base would want.
Neko Makai	Posted - 2004.05.15 19:13:00 - [86] Edited by: Neko Makai on 15/05/2004 19:17:53 Edited by: Neko Makai on 15/05/2004 19:16:31 LOOK CCP how many ppl are in agreement, NERF THE MAP TO HELL!!!! 1. Remove Pilots in space in 0.0 space 2. remove jumps/NPC killed in 0.0 space also 3. remove local or nerf it PEOPLE if u want to be heard, KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE!! One voice may not be heard, but 1000s will. If u read this thread PLease vote on it, even if ur not in favor or undecided. Least we get a number.
Berilac	Posted - 2004.05.15 21:03:00 - [87] How about this: theres a module/ship that hides other ships from local and on the map, when the other ship/ships are within 50km, and in the same corp. simple. it makes people scout for fleets, but still allows the individual pilot to be seen, unless he buys one of these module/ships. There could be a skill, like map-cloaking. lvl 3 or 4 with 5 addtional people being hid every level. --- 'Sweeden Steel Bite hard'
Latex Mistress	Posted - 2004.06.07 07:01:00 - [88] Nerf the local? Sounds like a job for a Cloaking Device Really though, if it weren't for cloaking coming out so soon, I would be all for killing local. Nerf the "Pilots in Space"? I'll drink to that, but only in low-sec space (otherwise it doesn't fit that the map is empty but CONCORD knows exactly where you are at all times). As stated earlier: I agree with keeping the pod kills in the last 24 hours. This makes sense on a lot of levels, as every pilot should be able to avoid gate-campers via a "pod-kill traffic report" if they choose to. If ECM is an act of aggression, why am I not on kill mails?
Nan Flori	Posted - 2004.06.08 10:22:00 - [89] i totally agree on removing "pilots in space" from 0.0 data on 0.1->0.4 should be less accurate local should stay, but no pilots listed. These are all great ideas... Nan
illuminati	Posted - 2004.06.10 11:51:00 - [90] Edited by: illuminati on 10/06/2004 11:52:46 Vote NO to deepspace map option "show pilots in space" Edit: Leave local the hell alone! It's fine the way it is!

Etrigan	Posted - 2004.06.11 06:52:00 - [91] Wow I love this idea, almost like a fog of war! It makes complete sense, just turning off show pilots in space in 0.4 and below would make 0.0 more interesting and alliances would have to work that much harder to stop characters from entering their territory. It definatley deserves a bump
Dallenn	Posted - 2004.06.11 12:23:00 - [92] One issue with these ideas would be how easy - or difficult :-) - it is to find your enemy. If the only way to find your enemy in 0.0 space is scouting the whole region throughly (and you do not know when the enemy has entered the region, so you would need to scout constantly), there could be much less PvP, as engagements would be far fewer. And as it is currently alliances are far from exercising total control over their areas of space. Therefore sensor networks and advanced scout frigates would be essential as a counterbalance. One idea could be a monitoring station that somehow actively alerts you (evemail or a popup) when members of a hostile corp/alliance enter the system. We seek the Chosen ones / Roleplaying in Eve / Idea Lab favourites I am Paratwa / Of the Ash Ock A Guardian of time / The firestorm / That purifies
Ahlaia	Posted - 2004.06.11 14:46:00 - [93] i vote: YA NERF IT! ...but no, they'll nerf other things we dont want....
The MushroomKing	Posted - 2004.06.11 15:48:00 - [94] I have to agree to all the ideas, not showing up in local, and not having the people in space, provided things stay as they are in empire/more secure space
John Blackthorn	Posted - 2004.06.11 21:54:00 - [95] I am against this idea totaly. It will basicly turn into pure pvp in 0.0 space with no other function. I have no desire to get blown up constantly because you can't see how many people are in the next system. I see your point yes, but i don't like it. "The show players needs to be stoped for the simple reason of I can not go mining in a 0.0 for that reason alone." One person made the above quote and I had to laphe.. well sure you could mine in 0.0 if the change was made but you would never get your ores back to a station for refine and back to empire.
Rukidding	Posted - 2004.06.12 04:27:00 - [96] In defense of the Map, the jump gates would have direct knowledge of the use it see and thats what would get reported back to Concord. Just as you see the counters that municipalities use to gauge the use of their streets. This could equate to knowing when to perform maintenance or allocate addition resources to regions requiring additional patrols or planning for building future routes to cut down on traffic through high use routes. The byproduct being that the information is available for use by the individual pilots to plan their route to avoid or in the case of military forces to intercept large concentrations. This is no different than what you currently see in our larger cities that have this information readily available for drivers to plan their routes through the cities concerned. Those of you that haven't seen this in real life count yourselves lucky that you don't have traffic problems that make it a necessity.
Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.06.12 10:28:00 - [97] I got an even better idea all u lot in CA can have the nefed map but SA can have the full map!.......joke! No really this is a perfect idea which makes perfect scense! DEVS TAKE NOTICE OR THE KITTENS WILL DIE!!!!! Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
Qwertyifshag	Posted - 2004.06.14 06:31:00 - [98] NERF the map! it is one of 2 things yet to feel the wrath of the all might nerf bat
Ostaps	Posted - 2004.06.19 11:40:00 - [99] Excellent proposal, I hope someone from CCP reads it.
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.06.19 14:22:00 - [100] heh. i'm so happy someone dug this up! this is one of my favorite ideas. pilot detection should be about direct surveillance. miners hauling ore and possibly refined minerals back to safe space should employ friends as scouts to help them get the goods home in exchange for a cut. as it stands, anyone mining in 0.0 is instantly detectable by EVERYONE. at least with pilots in space being made unavailable for 0.0, someone could mine out in the vastness of 0.0 for a while with a reasonable chance of not being detected. i agree that Local should be left intact, but that the list of pilots in the system should be disabled for 0.0 space. in addition to pilots in space, i would remove ships destroyed, npcs destroyed, jumps in the last hour/twenty four hours, and any other figures that would give away the presence of pilots. pretty much all of them. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards

Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.06.20 14:13:00 - [101] Um err why has this found its way to the the second page> Come on guys change something keep posting Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
ryankain	Posted - 2004.06.22 00:16:00 - [102] Yes
Redan Chulipa	Posted - 2004.06.24 01:56:00 - [103] This is what's killing small corporations, I'm not talking 3 man alt combos in frigates but corporations of 20-60 people. We need the ability to hide our operations as we cannot ask of our members to become a hardcore gankster just to keep up with huge complacant alliances.
Paw Sandberg	Posted - 2004.06.24 15:12:00 - [104] Originally by: Nan Flori i totally agree on removing "pilots in space" from 0.0 data on 0.1->0.4 should be less accurate local should stay, but no pilots listed. These are all great ideas... Nan That Basicly sums up what i feel Thank You Paw Sandberg for all your BPC needs see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
Schroni	Posted - 2004.06.30 13:14:00 - [105] * BUMP * --- SNIGG Forums my videos
Mercade	Posted - 2004.07.01 16:44:00 - [106] I was discussing this idea in extent a few nights ago with a friend and this is what we came up with. No pilots in space listing for 0.0 of course Less accurate or no pilots listing in .4-.1 those are given minimums I think, but what we wanted to add to that was not just a cloaked local but a passive local system As it is right now local is a chatroom tethered to your location handled server side which increases lag. What we thought might work better was a passive local system. Pilot #1 enters into system ABC. His local chat is empty and the character listing there is empty. He finds some veldspar and begins mining. All the sudden. "Hey pilot #3 send me a gang" says pilot #2 Pilot #2 is now listed on mr 1's local because he sqawked on open frequency. He can now look up that guys info and records because he broke radio silence. If Pilot #3 responds on local he is added to the local channel of anyone in the system as well. After a 10 minute period with no further open chat pilot 2 will be removed from the local of anyone he was put on. This could be a tether hand off system to client side. Server sees sqawk and passes char info and a 10min timer to clientside which need only manage that display of char and timer reducing lag in local. The timer would mean you wouldn't know who is still in local unless they chat with frequency. Or a simple version is the no local char in room listing but I'd recommend a hyperlink on each char name that says something so you can bring up info quickly and not have to P&Places transcribe "iiilliililillii" to find out if that he/she/it wants to kill you. Either way nerf the map, it is a hinderance to this game more then it is a benefit.
Mercade	Posted - 2004.07.01 16:44:00 - [107] I was discussing this idea in extent a few nights ago with a friend and this is what we came up with. No pilots in space listing for 0.0 of course Less accurate or no pilots listing in .4-.1 those are given minimums I think, but what we wanted to add to that was not just a cloaked local but a passive local system As it is right now local is a chatroom tethered to your location handled server side which increases lag. What we thought might work better was a passive local system. Pilot #1 enters into system ABC. His local chat is empty and the character listing there is empty. He finds some veldspar and begins mining. All the sudden. "Hey pilot #3 send me a gang" says pilot #2 Pilot #2 is now listed on mr 1's local because he sqawked on open frequency. He can now look up that guys info and records because he broke radio silence. If Pilot #3 responds on local he is added to the local channel of anyone in the system as well. After a 10 minute period with no further open chat pilot 2 will be removed from the local of anyone he was put on. This could be a tether hand off system to client side. Server sees sqawk and passes char info and a 10min timer to clientside which need only manage that display of char and timer reducing lag in local. The timer would mean you wouldn't know who is still in local unless they chat with frequency. Or a simple version is the no local char in room listing but I'd recommend a hyperlink on each char name that says something so you can bring up info quickly and not have to P&Places transcribe "iiilliililillii" to find out if that he/she/it wants to kill you. Either way nerf the map, it is a hinderance to this game more then it is a benefit.
Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.01 18:48:00 - [108] NERF THE MAP!!! For gods sake you nerf everything else in this game! And no it wouldn't make it any harder to mine in 0.0 space it would acctualy make it safer, heres how. The reason mining ops get ganked in 0.0 is because a pirate corp sees a little dot with bout 10 people in, this dot is not moving a lot therefore is a mining op. The pirate corp then moves between the op and nearest escape from 0.0 and closes in and kills op. If you dont have the map they can't detect your op with out heavey scouting and so your safe! Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.01 18:48:00 - [109] NERF THE MAP!!! For gods sake you nerf everything else in this game! And no it wouldn't make it any harder to mine in 0.0 space it would acctualy make it safer, heres how. The reason mining ops get ganked in 0.0 is because a pirate corp sees a little dot with bout 10 people in, this dot is not moving a lot therefore is a mining op. The pirate corp then moves between the op and nearest escape from 0.0 and closes in and kills op. If you dont have the map they can't detect your op with out heavey scouting and so your safe! Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
Paw Sandberg	Posted - 2004.07.09 05:11:00 - [110] instead of all the show up in local does not show up in local simply have local work as a CV meaning when i say something my Charectors name show up in local (as it is now) however if you want to pull a info on me you have to go into the search and look me up i do however also agree that atleast in .4+ the local should stay as it is and the map needs to be taken out of 0.0 for sure PLEASE Thank You Paw Sandberg for all your BPC needs see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1

Paw Sandberg	Posted - 2004.07.09 05:11:00 - [111] instead of all the show up in local does not show up in local simply have local work as a CV meaning when i say something my Charectors name show up in local (as it is now) however if you want to pull a info on me you have to go into the search and look me up i do however also agree that atleast in .4+ the local should stay as it is and the map needs to be taken out of 0.0 for sure PLEASE Thank You Paw Sandberg for all your BPC needs see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.09 09:52:00 - [112] Um CCP 99% of people (realy 106 out of 107 posts have been positive) want this idea to get the green light immeaditly. Why havent you even looked at it yet? Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.09 09:52:00 - [113] Um CCP 99% of people (realy 106 out of 107 posts have been positive) want this idea to get the green light immeaditly. Why havent you even looked at it yet? Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
Kaht'kan	Posted - 2004.07.09 10:33:00 - [114] Hear, hear. The map should be nerfed to so that information that can gives away the presence of pilots in system is fully available in 0.5+ systems, decreases quality (for example, the "sampling every x minutes" system) from 0.4 to 0.1 systems and is absent in 0.0. Additionaly, it should be possible to deploy sensors in system. Such sensors should work as do the ship autoscanner but with a lower range. They could be available in a whole range of prices from cheap with lowest scanning range and low/none shield/armor to very expensive with wider range and more shield/armor HPs. It might also be sensible to limit the number of scanners controlable per-player via a remote surveilance skill or such. This will increase the strategic depth for all kinds of operations: - Control of multi-system areas of 0.0 space will now involve active scouting and intelligent deployment of sensors. Flying patrol missions to check controled space and remove undesired visitors will also make sense. This goes beyond simply blockades and couple of players in BSs that always know where players are in the whole EVE universe as we have now. - Military actions will include scouting for both offensive and defensive purposes. Also sensors can be deployed in enemy territory in preparation for a military op. Equally, enemy sensors can be destroyed in preparation for a military op. Additionaly things such as offensives in multiple fronts (ie with multiple coordinated fleets) will become more important since it reduces the probability that the enemy will find out (via scouting or via a sensor from their network that's not yet destroyed or was recently deployed) the location of the WHOLE attack force. - Mining ops in 0.0 space will be possible for small corps. They will require scouting (to discover blockades, check an approach path and find a good place for the op) plus involving the deployement of sensors for advanced warning. There will still be an element of danger from other players, since they still run the risk of being discovered by a pirate or alliance patrol or scout. I expect that a consequence of this is that: - Alliance controled space will shrink in size to match the size of the alliance's manpower available for scouting, control of sensors and deployment and maintenance of sensor networks. There will be areas of space under strong control by the alliance (by having a bigger, beter maintained sensor network and/or more pilots in space), while others will be within the sphere of influence of the alliance but under a less thight control (such as by being periodically visited by alliance combat patrols and scouts, or having sensors - which can and will often be destroyed - placed at strategic locations) - Pirates will have to search for their prey or prepare traps on often visited sites or botleneck transit places. An intelligent use of sensors will also allow pirates to keep watch on often visited places ("waterholes" where prey often comes). - Small corporations will be able to mine in some of the 0.0 space. This will require preparation in the form of scouting to look for pirate traps, detect and disable/bypass sensor networks. Also a smart use of sensors will provide some level of advanced warning during mining operations while not guaranteing security (since the pirates/alliance patrols can also destroy/bypass sensors, plus the presence of sensors is an indicator of some operation going on close-by)
Kaht'kan	Posted - 2004.07.09 10:33:00 - [115] Hear, hear. The map should be nerfed to so that information that can gives away the presence of pilots in system is fully available in 0.5+ systems, decreases quality (for example, the "sampling every x minutes" system) from 0.4 to 0.1 systems and is absent in 0.0. Additionaly, it should be possible to deploy sensors in system. Such sensors should work as do the ship autoscanner but with a lower range. They could be available in a whole range of prices from cheap with lowest scanning range and low/none shield/armor to very expensive with wider range and more shield/armor HPs. It might also be sensible to limit the number of scanners controlable per-player via a remote surveilance skill or such. This will increase the strategic depth for all kinds of operations: - Control of multi-system areas of 0.0 space will now involve active scouting and intelligent deployment of sensors. Flying patrol missions to check controled space and remove undesired visitors will also make sense. This goes beyond simply blockades and couple of players in BSs that always know where players are in the whole EVE universe as we have now. - Military actions will include scouting for both offensive and defensive purposes. Also sensors can be deployed in enemy territory in preparation for a military op. Equally, enemy sensors can be destroyed in preparation for a military op. Additionaly things such as offensives in multiple fronts (ie with multiple coordinated fleets) will become more important since it reduces the probability that the enemy will find out (via scouting or via a sensor from their network that's not yet destroyed or was recently deployed) the location of the WHOLE attack force. - Mining ops in 0.0 space will be possible for small corps. They will require scouting (to discover blockades, check an approach path and find a good place for the op) plus involving the deployement of sensors for advanced warning. There will still be an element of danger from other players, since they still run the risk of being discovered by a pirate or alliance patrol or scout. I expect that a consequence of this is that: - Alliance controled space will shrink in size to match the size of the alliance's manpower available for scouting, control of sensors and deployment and maintenance of sensor networks. There will be areas of space under strong control by the alliance (by having a bigger, beter maintained sensor network and/or more pilots in space), while others will be within the sphere of influence of the alliance but under a less thight control (such as by being periodically visited by alliance combat patrols and scouts, or having sensors - which can and will often be destroyed - placed at strategic locations) - Pirates will have to search for their prey or prepare traps on often visited sites or botleneck transit places. An intelligent use of sensors will also allow pirates to keep watch on often visited places ("waterholes" where prey often comes). - Small corporations will be able to mine in some of the 0.0 space. This will require preparation in the form of scouting to look for pirate traps, detect and disable/bypass sensor networks. Also a smart use of sensors will provide some level of advanced warning during mining operations while not guaranteing security (since the pirates/alliance patrols can also destroy/bypass sensors, plus the presence of sensors is an indicator of some operation going on close-by)
SaH TohRI	Posted - 2004.07.10 16:57:00 - [116] Very good overall idea I also suggest to think about some sort of sensor probes, very cheap to buy, that can be lauched by ships. They will be active anly for minutes or so and will have limited scanning range but great resolution. in this way, if u lauch one to a distant belt for example, it will give back the same infos as you were actually there. my 2 isk
SaH TohRI	Posted - 2004.07.10 16:57:00 - [117] Very good overall idea I also suggest to think about some sort of sensor probes, very cheap to buy, that can be lauched by ships. They will be active anly for minutes or so and will have limited scanning range but great resolution. in this way, if u lauch one to a distant belt for example, it will give back the same infos as you were actually there. my 2 isk
Paw Sandberg	Posted - 2004.07.10 17:00:00 - [118] the best thing about this idear is it should force the bigger aliance to claim less teritory as it will be harder to patroll your area also i would like to get this in adition with the player owned Gates and sentry guns deployeble by the gates as this would also allow peoble to "really" claim space (another nice feature would be to be able to rename the systems own'ed and have the soverigty show the Corp or Aliance name that own that 0.0 system Thank You Paw Sandberg for all your BPC needs see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
Paw Sandberg	Posted - 2004.07.10 17:00:00 - [119] the best thing about this idear is it should force the bigger aliance to claim less teritory as it will be harder to patroll your area also i would like to get this in adition with the player owned Gates and sentry guns deployeble by the gates as this would also allow peoble to "really" claim space (another nice feature would be to be able to rename the systems own'ed and have the soverigty show the Corp or Aliance name that own that 0.0 system Thank You Paw Sandberg for all your BPC needs see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
Dallenn	Posted - 2004.07.11 19:29:00 - [120] Another issue is that it would be much more difficult to avoid gate camps. This would make it harder for lowbie to midbie players to enter 0.0 space. We seek the Chosen ones / Roleplaying in Eve / Idea Lab favourites I am Paratwa / Of the Ash Ock A Guardian of time / The firestorm / That purifies

Dallenn	Posted - 2004.07.11 19:29:00 - [121] Another issue is that it would be much more difficult to avoid gate camps. This would make it harder for lowbie to midbie players to enter 0.0 space. We seek the Chosen ones / Roleplaying in Eve / Idea Lab favourites I am Paratwa / Of the Ash Ock A Guardian of time / The firestorm / That purifies
Kaht'kan	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:35:00 - [122] Originally by: Dallenn Another issue is that it would be much more difficult to avoid gate camps. This would make it harder for lowbie to midbie players to enter 0.0 space. As we have now, and in my opinion, what's stopping lowbie/midbie players of going to 0.0 space is: - The blockades. These are put in place by alliances which claim they "own" that area of 0.0 space (often consisting of more starsystems than there are alliance members). - The fact that even if you do cross the blockades (for example by means of bookmarks and warp core stabs), you always run the risk of at any time being jumped on by several BSs, since other players can see via the map that "there is 1 person in system X for quite a while now" and can assemble a task force and "pay the miner a visit". When having up front all the information needed to find other players in "claimed space", even the tiniest of alliances can assemble a 5 BS task force to go "pay him a visit". (The fact that attacking someone in 0.0 space has no negative security standing impact also doesn't help - most "lock-blow-and-pod" players in 0.0 blockades can enter Empire space at will. Real pirates trade the ability to travel in 0.5+ space for the possibility to pirate all the way up to 0.4 space) I think that with the proposed changes, the rewards for crossing blockades would go up, since anyone that managed to cross the blockade would be much harder to find (and thus could mine/npc-hunt longer in 0.0 space beyond the blockade). Also, to properly control space, an alliance would need to dedicate manpower to combat patrols/scouting and sensor network deployment/maintenance. This would reduce the manpower available to maintain a blockade. An alliance that concentrated on gate camping would run the risk of having "foreign" player powers growing unchecked inside their claimed space. Eventually those new powers (or just plain pirates) would grow strong enough to start attacking lone alliance members inside space percieved as "secure" by the alliance thus forcing the alliance to use manpower to defend they're own backyard. The bigger the backyard, te more manpower needed and the less manpower available for blockades. As for gate camping purely for pirating: Under the new situation people trying to avoid gate campers would need scout ahead using frigates and maybe even deploy sensors in often traveled routes. This can easilly be done even by the lowbiest of players, since frigates are cheap.
Kaht'kan	Posted - 2004.07.12 09:35:00 - [123] Originally by: Dallenn Another issue is that it would be much more difficult to avoid gate camps. This would make it harder for lowbie to midbie players to enter 0.0 space. As we have now, and in my opinion, what's stopping lowbie/midbie players of going to 0.0 space is: - The blockades. These are put in place by alliances which claim they "own" that area of 0.0 space (often consisting of more starsystems than there are alliance members). - The fact that even if you do cross the blockades (for example by means of bookmarks and warp core stabs), you always run the risk of at any time being jumped on by several BSs, since other players can see via the map that "there is 1 person in system X for quite a while now" and can assemble a task force and "pay the miner a visit". When having up front all the information needed to find other players in "claimed space", even the tiniest of alliances can assemble a 5 BS task force to go "pay him a visit". (The fact that attacking someone in 0.0 space has no negative security standing impact also doesn't help - most "lock-blow-and-pod" players in 0.0 blockades can enter Empire space at will. Real pirates trade the ability to travel in 0.5+ space for the possibility to pirate all the way up to 0.4 space) I think that with the proposed changes, the rewards for crossing blockades would go up, since anyone that managed to cross the blockade would be much harder to find (and thus could mine/npc-hunt longer in 0.0 space beyond the blockade). Also, to properly control space, an alliance would need to dedicate manpower to combat patrols/scouting and sensor network deployment/maintenance. This would reduce the manpower available to maintain a blockade. An alliance that concentrated on gate camping would run the risk of having "foreign" player powers growing unchecked inside their claimed space. Eventually those new powers (or just plain pirates) would grow strong enough to start attacking lone alliance members inside space percieved as "secure" by the alliance thus forcing the alliance to use manpower to defend they're own backyard. The bigger the backyard, te more manpower needed and the less manpower available for blockades. As for gate camping purely for pirating: Under the new situation people trying to avoid gate campers would need scout ahead using frigates and maybe even deploy sensors in often traveled routes. This can easilly be done even by the lowbiest of players, since frigates are cheap.
Mordessa	Posted - 2004.07.12 11:12:00 - [124] I like the idea of this but have any of you realized that the entrances to most regions in 0.0 space are basically choke points? I mean look at Stain, Fountain, I mean the list is pretty long. Piracy would be waaaay to easy as all they have to do to lock down a region is to camp its only 1 or 2 entrances. If CCP does do this I would hope that they would install more routes to get into and out of most regions, personally I think around 6-8 entrances/exits would suffice per region. I dont mind giving the Pirates something to do, but why should we hand over everything on a platter to them?
Mordessa	Posted - 2004.07.12 11:12:00 - [125] I like the idea of this but have any of you realized that the entrances to most regions in 0.0 space are basically choke points? I mean look at Stain, Fountain, I mean the list is pretty long. Piracy would be waaaay to easy as all they have to do to lock down a region is to camp its only 1 or 2 entrances. If CCP does do this I would hope that they would install more routes to get into and out of most regions, personally I think around 6-8 entrances/exits would suffice per region. I dont mind giving the Pirates something to do, but why should we hand over everything on a platter to them?
ElDiablo	Posted - 2004.07.13 07:24:00 - [126] Mordessa I see your point, and I am agreement with this thread. I think everyone would have the benefit of having the map nerfed. Not only pirates, but everyone else. This would make teamwork imperative. Im all for it.
ElDiablo	Posted - 2004.07.13 07:24:00 - [127] Mordessa I see your point, and I am agreement with this thread. I think everyone would have the benefit of having the map nerfed. Not only pirates, but everyone else. This would make teamwork imperative. Im all for it.
Nick Parker	Posted - 2004.07.13 07:38:00 - [128] I Like the Idea of Local being Dead in 0.0 Space, Unless Someone (Wether through mistake or Lonelyness) Said something in it. Then it would be free for all to See, respond if they Want, Hunt Chase Etc Etc. Definitely Nerf the Map in 0.0 Space, but Leave it .1-.4, but let the Reporting Be Slow. Give some Idea of what's going on, but not a Lot. And the Idea of Having to make it Back to empire space to report an attack on them is one of, if not the, VERY best Ideas I've heard in Eve. Props to you
Nick Parker	Posted - 2004.07.13 07:38:00 - [129] I Like the Idea of Local being Dead in 0.0 Space, Unless Someone (Wether through mistake or Lonelyness) Said something in it. Then it would be free for all to See, respond if they Want, Hunt Chase Etc Etc. Definitely Nerf the Map in 0.0 Space, but Leave it .1-.4, but let the Reporting Be Slow. Give some Idea of what's going on, but not a Lot. And the Idea of Having to make it Back to empire space to report an attack on them is one of, if not the, VERY best Ideas I've heard in Eve. Props to you
Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.16 22:19:00 - [130] Could someone please sticky this. It's long enough and keeps falling down into the 4th page because everyone gets depresssed with the fact it hasn't even been read by anyone important. Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA

Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.16 22:19:00 - [131] Could someone please sticky this. It's long enough and keeps falling down into the 4th page because everyone gets depresssed with the fact it hasn't even been read by anyone important. Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
Hematic	Posted - 2004.07.16 22:53:00 - [132] The reasons why this is a bad idea: 1) Makes it impossible to travel in 0.0 without 5+ players or be a complete dice roll when jumping into each and every system. 2) This idea basically kills roaming pirates and puts ALL the power into static gate campers. While although I appreciate the original posters' concerns here is how you defeat it: 1) Trickle your players into an area. 2) Don't all stage at the same system. Break up the strike force into a couple units and have them each sit by a gate into the target system. 3) Disseminate insta-BMs for the route and have everyone use them to move so fast that the map doesn't update with your current location. 4) The use of scouts as you as you say should be used to verify blobs on maps as mining parties or enemy movement defeating the three points above. I'm not against guarding gates at all but I am against removing the only real tool to roam and gank.
Hematic	Posted - 2004.07.16 22:53:00 - [133] The reasons why this is a bad idea: 1) Makes it impossible to travel in 0.0 without 5+ players or be a complete dice roll when jumping into each and every system. 2) This idea basically kills roaming pirates and puts ALL the power into static gate campers. While although I appreciate the original posters' concerns here is how you defeat it: 1) Trickle your players into an area. 2) Don't all stage at the same system. Break up the strike force into a couple units and have them each sit by a gate into the target system. 3) Disseminate insta-BMs for the route and have everyone use them to move so fast that the map doesn't update with your current location. 4) The use of scouts as you as you say should be used to verify blobs on maps as mining parties or enemy movement defeating the three points above. I'm not against guarding gates at all but I am against removing the only real tool to roam and gank.
Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.16 23:12:00 - [134] Edited by: Zaldiri on 16/07/2004 23:15:48 Ah Hematic let's see. You call it a dice roll, thats what 0.0 space is ment to be, nasty, unpredictable, lawless, unreaglated. It wont really change your roming pirateing, in fact it will help it (a bit): With this more people would feel safer in 0.0 space and so you would have more prey. People wont be able to run away from you becuase they don't know where you are. You won't get blown up by nasty allience players when you cross there borders becuase they wont know (without good scouting) that you have crossed. It's also easy to tell a mining party (meduim sized, stationary dot with a couple of smaller dots moveing back and forth between it and the nearest refinary) from enemy movements (big fast moving dot) Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.16 23:12:00 - [135] Edited by: Zaldiri on 16/07/2004 23:15:48 Ah Hematic let's see. You call it a dice roll, thats what 0.0 space is ment to be, nasty, unpredictable, lawless, unreaglated. It wont really change your roming pirateing, in fact it will help it (a bit): With this more people would feel safer in 0.0 space and so you would have more prey. People wont be able to run away from you becuase they don't know where you are. You won't get blown up by nasty allience players when you cross there borders becuase they wont know (without good scouting) that you have crossed. It's also easy to tell a mining party (meduim sized, stationary dot with a couple of smaller dots moveing back and forth between it and the nearest refinary) from enemy movements (big fast moving dot) Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
Paw Sandberg	Posted - 2004.07.19 07:06:00 - [136] we need a sticky pls the biggest deal behind this idear is actuelly that 0.0 will be safer for loners and i can plan a 0.0 mining opp without being seen by all that bothers looking at the map as for the wars aliance wars will be more fun as a smaller group can attack a point thereby drawing the bulk of a force into combat away from the station they are trying to protect there are many good arguments for why this needs to be changed Thank You Paw Sandberg for all your BPC needs see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
Paw Sandberg	Posted - 2004.07.19 07:06:00 - [137] we need a sticky pls the biggest deal behind this idear is actuelly that 0.0 will be safer for loners and i can plan a 0.0 mining opp without being seen by all that bothers looking at the map as for the wars aliance wars will be more fun as a smaller group can attack a point thereby drawing the bulk of a force into combat away from the station they are trying to protect there are many good arguments for why this needs to be changed Thank You Paw Sandberg for all your BPC needs see http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=55706&page=1
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.07.19 08:37:00 - [138] i'm still 100% behind this idea. ppl can still spot camps by looking at pods/ship kills in the last hour, etc. likewise, pirates would be able to detect mining ops by looking at npc ship kills on the map, etc. direct player detection SHOULD be via scouting, not just handed to everyone as a feature. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Etoile Chercheur	Posted - 2004.07.19 08:37:00 - [139] i'm still 100% behind this idea. ppl can still spot camps by looking at pods/ship kills in the last hour, etc. likewise, pirates would be able to detect mining ops by looking at npc ship kills on the map, etc. direct player detection SHOULD be via scouting, not just handed to everyone as a feature. Midshipman Etoile Chercheur - Logistics Division (M&T) \| Hadean Drive Yards
Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.19 09:07:00 - [140] Go to the lastest dev blog and vote YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA

Zaldiri	Posted - 2004.07.19 09:07:00 - [141] Go to the lastest dev blog and vote YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rise of Valhalla is now recruiting. We are looking for players of any level of experience. Please contact me or SSJ2VEGETA
JarmenKell	Posted - 2004.09.25 22:15:00 - [142] i support you 100% we need the eliment of surprise. right now its like playing a strategy game with ( fog of war off ) so u can see what ur enemy is doing. big blps avoids other big red blops. --------------------------------------------------------------------- this should be disabled off the map option also the poding and ship destroyed etc. those infos are jsut making the game predictable and it shouldn t ve done. . i mean there is nothing logical about it. and CCP READ THIS AND DO SOMETHING
JarmenKell	Posted - 2004.09.25 22:15:00 - [143] i support you 100% we need the eliment of surprise. right now its like playing a strategy game with ( fog of war off ) so u can see what ur enemy is doing. big blps avoids other big red blops. --------------------------------------------------------------------- this should be disabled off the map option also the poding and ship destroyed etc. those infos are jsut making the game predictable and it shouldn t ve done. . i mean there is nothing logical about it. and CCP READ THIS AND DO SOMETHING
Rasputin Baba	Posted - 2004.09.25 23:12:00 - [144] The map is insulting the playerbase intelligence.
Rasputin Baba	Posted - 2004.09.25 23:12:00 - [145] The map is insulting the playerbase intelligence.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.09.25 23:12:00 - [146] Haven't read the last 7 pages of posts so I'm sure this as been suggested: 1. Disable Local chat in 0.0 2. Disable "Pilots in Space" in 0.0 3. Enable "Pilots in Space" to corps/alliances with a station in that system 4. Add Probes, which are special drones that can relay Scanner information ....A. These drones can be sent though a Jumpgate ....B. Pirates can destroy them before they relay their information ....C. Pirates can Jam them using existing ECM modules I think with the advent of System Scanners in Shiva that people will WANT features like this, but don't realize it yet until they realize they can no longer hide in their safe spots.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.09.25 23:12:00 - [147] Haven't read the last 7 pages of posts so I'm sure this as been suggested: 1. Disable Local chat in 0.0 2. Disable "Pilots in Space" in 0.0 3. Enable "Pilots in Space" to corps/alliances with a station in that system 4. Add Probes, which are special drones that can relay Scanner information ....A. These drones can be sent though a Jumpgate ....B. Pirates can destroy them before they relay their information ....C. Pirates can Jam them using existing ECM modules I think with the advent of System Scanners in Shiva that people will WANT features like this, but don't realize it yet until they realize they can no longer hide in their safe spots.
Silver Bird	Posted - 2004.09.26 15:01:00 - [148] Dont disable local, Just make local actually local and have it show only pilots that you can actually see from your ship. I have so many times wanted to chat with the guy who just warped into the belt I was mining but NOT chat with everyone in the system letting them know that hay there is a miner to go steal ore from, and I'm a cheap skate, why they heck should I have to pay 100isk to talk to someone where if local worked like every other mmog out where if you type in local only those who can see you see your message. Yes please get rid of free intel from the map and local. p.s. Please let those docked in a station look out the window and see who is outside the station.
Silver Bird	Posted - 2004.09.26 15:01:00 - [149] Dont disable local, Just make local actually local and have it show only pilots that you can actually see from your ship. I have so many times wanted to chat with the guy who just warped into the belt I was mining but NOT chat with everyone in the system letting them know that hay there is a miner to go steal ore from, and I'm a cheap skate, why they heck should I have to pay 100isk to talk to someone where if local worked like every other mmog out where if you type in local only those who can see you see your message. Yes please get rid of free intel from the map and local. p.s. Please let those docked in a station look out the window and see who is outside the station.
Hido	Posted - 2004.09.27 08:54:00 - [150] You have got my vote on this one. Living the life Havin it large Welcome to the land of the rising sun

Hido	Posted - 2004.09.27 08:54:00 - [151] You have got my vote on this one. Living the life Havin it large Welcome to the land of the rising sun
HEBLOKK	Posted - 2004.09.27 18:53:00 - [152] Just to put in my 2 cents worth, I posted a topic on spy satelites, a while back (now on forum page 20) This link should get you there... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=101788 Thanks
HEBLOKK	Posted - 2004.09.27 18:53:00 - [153] Just to put in my 2 cents worth, I posted a topic on spy satelites, a while back (now on forum page 20) This link should get you there... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=101788 Thanks


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.