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Merin Ryskin
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.29 08:16:00 -
[1]
The latest stealth change: the ewar strength gang link on TQ gives 2% base bonus to ALL ewar types. On the test server/patch notes, this bonus is reduced to 1.2% for tracking disruptors and damps.
Now seriously, what the hell CCP? It's pretty much universally agreed that the information warfare links are the weakest of the four. The poor much-nerfed Eos has always been the worst at its intended role, due in large part to the fact that the effectiveness bonus is wasted on gang links you don't want to fit on it. So why are you nerfing them? Could we have some kind of explanation here?
Is this because something about the scripts changes the stacking math, and a 1.2% bonus gives the same end result as the current 2% bonus? Or have you just decided to add insult to injury and be absolutely sure the Eos is dead and useless?
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Ulfbratzen
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Posted - 2007.11.29 09:32:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ulfbratzen on 29/11/2007 09:32:35
Accept it Gallente got hit by a trinity of nerfbats.
Their ewar got nerfed, their drones got nerfed a bit and their warfare links got nerfed.
Last thing to nerf is their guns, maybe blasters get tracking like minnie artillerys and rails cant hit anything els than stationary targets.
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Dristra
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.29 09:35:00 -
[3]
It is the great amarr boost.
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.29 09:39:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Theron Gyrow on 29/11/2007 09:40:15
If the unadjusted damp effect is 62.5%, the old 2% bonus is equivalent to the new 1.2% bonus.
There is no way to get a 62.5% damp effect in the new system - max effect with max-skilled specialised ships with two T1 damp rigs (no calibration for more) is 58.5%.
Ergo, this is a nerf.
Can't remember the TD numbers offhand, but I'd expect it to be the same (34% base effect).
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Gradient forum |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.29 09:51:00 -
[5]
Yeah, this is utterly stupid.
The gang links most in need of a boost get a nerf.
In addition, they boost ECM (already looking to be the only EW worth using) almost 2x more than they boost damps and TDs, which just got made close to useless even on ships specialized to use them.
CCP, wake up and smell the coffee, please. This change makes zero sense whatsoever. You're nerfing what's weak, and boosting what's strong. Does not compute.
- Gang links need a boost, ffs
- Damps and TDs need at least as much bonus as ECM does, preferably more.
Everyone knows this. I'm totally puzzled why the devs apparently don't.
Are you really trying to kill off other forms of EW except ECM? I've been to "ECM Online" already years back, not too wild about going back there.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.11.29 09:55:00 -
[6]
I hoped that Eos could still save the day for damps and tracking disruptors, but they're hit as well... It's quite a long trainign time for 1.2% warfare links!
I'm actually training for the astarte, next, I thought about training for the eos, now, I thing about astarte->amarr HAS->absolution->damnation, no more eos for me!
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.11.29 10:02:00 -
[7]
Why don't people just get that CCP doesn't want anyone flying the Eos any more?
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.29 10:14:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Why don't people just get that CCP doesn't want anyone flying the Eos any more?
Yeah, the Eos is looking like the recipient of the "Most Nerfed Ship in History" award. I'm starting to loose counts of all the nerfs.
To date, I've never seen anyone fly an Eos with gang links, as gang support. Now, with the Eos a joke of a ship and infowar gang links made even worst than they were... well, I suspect you'll never see anyone fly Eos, period.
CCP seems to have a problem with balancing, they keep doing crazy swings and overcorrections, and sometimes (like now) start nerfing the weak and boosting the strong.
What was actually needed was:
- nerf of Eos solo capabilities
- small boost to Eos gang support capabilities
- boost to infowar gang links, to bring them up to level with the others
Instead we got the current joke of a nerf-o-rama.
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Thanos Mortis
Filthy Scum
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Posted - 2007.11.29 10:34:00 -
[9]
lol, this has got to be a joke
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Enigma Crysis
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Posted - 2007.11.29 11:24:00 -
[10]
lol?! omg, i thought with gang-eos it could have make sense now: flying to support the new nerfed damps and ecm ships...
I dont get it. Im flying an Eos and i would have just started to learn up to the information mindlink. But now? This is not whining.. im just wondering. Whats the role of Eos now meant to be? (<--- serious question)
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Sleepkevert
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Posted - 2007.11.29 11:26:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Sleepkevert on 29/11/2007 11:26:15
Originally by: Enigma Crysis
Whats the role of Eos now meant to be? (<--- serious question)
Die horribly in every fight without really brining anything extra in it?
The damps needed a nerf, badly. But i think it's now a bit over done...
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Sign my sig! |
Enigma Crysis
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Posted - 2007.11.29 11:28:00 -
[12]
well it can tanks though, like a stone  but there are cheaper ships around doing same even better 
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Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Why don't people just get that CCP doesn't want anyone flying the Eos any more?
Yeah, the Eos is looking like the recipient of the "Most Nerfed Ship in History" award. I'm starting to loose counts of all the nerfs.
...
Agreed, the Eos is now the most nerfed ship in CCP history. Trading a mid slot for a low is good for the tank, but it does not solve the main issue of utility. The drone bay bonus is like a slap in the face. I can take the gun nerf in stride, along with the damp nerf (dont use 'em anyway), but making the useless command link more useless? Good lord, what is going on with my ship!
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Exploration: A discipline for those who have a lot of time, don't want to put in a lot of effort, and have a high tolerance for mental anguish. |
Natalie Jax
Battlestars
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:09:00 -
[14]
In reality, all Command Ship bonuses to their respective ganglink classes are of minimal value. The 5 levels of Command Ship are equivalent to 1.5 levels of Warfare Link Specialist, to give you a relative idea. By the time it's applied to the actual ship stat it's rather negligeable.
So this really doesn't constitute an additional nerf to the Eos, the CS bonus wasn't all that beneficial to begin with. The information warfare links themselves are still largely pointless. However, with this patch we'll probably start seeing a resurgance of ECM, so maybe that Sensor Integrity module will see some gametime after all?
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Eka Maladay
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Posted - 2007.11.29 22:26:00 -
[15]
Some testing is done, this is a little... oh what am I kidding, -a lot- under powered.
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Discobird
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.11.30 01:03:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Discobird on 30/11/2007 01:04:12
Edited by: Discobird on 30/11/2007 01:03:44
The change is not as bad as it looks, because of the new way dampening/TD mod bonuses are calculated. There is a crossover point at which the new Eos actually provides a better bonus to damps and TDs than the old one, depending on skills.
If you assume CS 4, warfare link specialist 4, IW specialist 4, and the mindlink, the crossover point is 0.625. That is, the new Eos will actually give a bigger bonus to the dampening/TD mod than before if the affected ship's dampening/TD mod is > 0.625.
Unfortunately dampening ships can't achieve a dampening mod > 0.625. Assuming spec 4, ship bonus, 2x t1 damp rigs, and either the targeting range or scan res script, you get a post-Trinity dampening mod of 0.5623. So the final result is:
Dampening mod with pre-Trinity Eos and pre-Trinity math: 0.6447
Dampening mod with post-Trinity Eos and post-Trinity math: 0.6275
Or a reduction in dampening mod of about 2.7%. It works out that a triple damped target will have 10% more range or scan resolution with the pre-Trinity Eos than with the post-Trinity Eos.
So yes the new 1.2% bonus is a nerf, but not by much. It is more a slap in the face than a kick to the ribs.
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Samurai XII
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Posted - 2007.11.30 03:39:00 -
[17]
Good.
______________________
Just another cool alt. |
pony2slow
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Posted - 2007.11.30 16:15:00 -
[18]
simple solution is to remove the bonus per level for information links and place a bonus per level for command links.
It will fix the problem. The bonus is so small anyways it barely makes a differnce. I have seen the math and its what you say gimped at best for a ship that gives a bonus to a specific link.
It will not overpower the ship it will bring it in line and probally get more people to fly all types of fleet command ships not just the ones that give the best bonus.
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Wonko
11 Thrones Of Thamiel
Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2007.11.30 17:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: pony2slow
...and probally get more people to fly all types of fleet command ships not just the ones that give the best bonus.
Well technically just about every race is flown... The astarte is a great ship no doubt, end of story, Slepnir is obviously the most dmg and has a tank to boot (why dont you nerf this one CCP?!?!?!), damnation has the best tank by far, and the nighthawk is a mission runners wet dream...
However, The Eos, once a great ship, has been reduced to be in-line with all the other command ships not posted above... It seems that for a ship that takes 6 months to train and another 6 after that to USE CORRECTLY, it really isnt worth much of anything =\
Absolution, okay tank, ****ty dps. Claymore, split weapons systems make it kinda lame, not so good for anything overall. Vulture, crappy dps sniper, not a good enough bonus to gang links to make it effective.
Shouldnt commands, with their superior tanking and ultimate ganking ability be able to take on a battleship? Perhaps not fleet warfare commands but the field commands (astarte, absolution, slepnir, nighthawk) should be able to easily!!! However the case is that its not.
Ive killed t2 fitted commands in a t1 fitted battleship (on test server), thats how you know something is wrong. The only one that puts up a hell of a fight is the slepnir, and actually, won in every case. i mean hell, if anything nerf that!!! Or better yet, the rapier!!! its overpowered as hell and just sits at 40km with you totally boned and going nowhere... dealing ridiculous amounts of damage while you sit there crying...
Or perhaps the vagabond???? IT GOES FASTER THAN AN INTERCEPTOR FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!! Again, your BONED, nothing to do...
However the Eos, you simply use a smartbomg, or a web with guns, or light drones.... and now the gallente must succumb to the huge nerfbat, when in fact its the rest of the commands that need a BOOST, not any that require a nerf.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.03 12:48:00 -
[20]
CCP already stated a few times, the backbone power of combat forces is and should be the Battleship. Command ships should NOT be able to take down a BS easily. Should be a tight fight.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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MellaRinn
Gallente
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.03 13:32:00 -
[21]
I completely agree with the OP... the poor bonus to info warfare links will now make me train the Damnation for sure, jsut because I won't lose 3 highslots on info warpfare links, and even if they stayed the same, any gang will want me to fit non-bonused armor or skirmish warfare links cos there is hardly any space in a medium gang to fly so many ewar heavy ships as to benefit from the i-war gang mods.
Any gang leader will prefer his tacklers to go faster and his BS to withstand 20+ % more damage than his curse pilot to do more disruption than it already does ;/
But yeah - let's yield to the whinging community and nerf the eos so much that noone will ever fly it again apart form in lv4s as a tank... and even that can be done better by a drake :/
✖Veto Corp. Training Officer✖
Click the sig 4 my vids |
Leon 026
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.12.03 16:05:00 -
[22]
I have to say I dont get it. Why is there an info-link nerf, and a nerf to interdictors, when there are other game-breaking modules/rigs like polycarbons being left untouched?
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Leon 026
Once I was fallen, now I have wings
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.12.03 16:11:00 -
[23]
IMO gang warfare modules in general are borked: too hard to fit, many not worth fitting.
And now that the Eos has been brought back in line with other command ships, the entire class of fleet command ships seems to be weak compared to the field versions.
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Kurogauna
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Posted - 2007.12.03 16:11:00 -
[24]
whith trinity, there will be an advertising campain = new players = moar lag.
i think that ccp is nerfing ships that cause lag (gallente boats)
then, yop, nano ships are too much trendy
- Real men tank hull. |
Vanessa Vale
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Posted - 2007.12.03 23:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Wonko
Or perhaps the vagabond???? IT GOES FASTER THAN AN INTERCEPTOR FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!! Again, your BONED, nothing to do...
Since you mention the vagabond, I'd like to refer you to this thread in which the reasons calling for a vagabond fix are discussed in slightly more detail than in your post.
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