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Full Impact
STeeLGamers
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Posted - 2007.11.30 13:57:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
My point was, that christians are just as capable of committing horrendous acts in the name of religion as any other. Whether it has been engineered or not, they are still capable.
Yes, we all know that. But they did that 100's of years ago.
No, in fact they did it a few weeks ago. Linkage
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
In general we do not reimburse due to lag in fleet battles though.
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.11.30 13:57:00 -
[62]
Interesting.
Where would you place yourself, intelligence wise, compared to the majority of the world's population?
Again - you are failing to read the words I actually typed.
What I see is lots of nasty little tin pot despots appealing to "Islam" as an excuse for whatever it is they feel like doing at any given moment and as a way to invoke general anti-US/west sentiment.
I see religion being used or misused as a tool to engage in rabble rousing.
EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Der Komissar
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Posted - 2007.11.30 13:57:00 -
[63]
Nuke 'em.
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Zamolxis
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.11.30 13:57:00 -
[64]
Linkage
Protests calling for her execution.
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DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
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Posted - 2007.11.30 14:00:00 -
[65]
Edited by: DarkMatter on 30/11/2007 14:06:41
Originally by: Full Impact
Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
My point was, that christians are just as capable of committing horrendous acts in the name of religion as any other. Whether it has been engineered or not, they are still capable.
Yes, we all know that. But they did that 100's of years ago.
No, in fact they did it a few weeks ago. Linkage
And that affects how many Christians or followers of Islam around the world?
Quote:
Interesting.
Where would you place yourself, intelligence wise, compared to the majority of the world's population?
Again - you are failing to read the words I actually typed.
What I see is lots of nasty little tin pot despots appealing to "Islam" as an excuse for whatever it is they feel like doing at any given moment and as a way to invoke general anti-US/west sentiment.
All religions do this, Islam does it the most, and to the most extreme's. That's why we get these Teddy Bear and R@pe victim stories.
As far as human intelligence. I'd rather associate with people who follow their common sense and scientifically proven factual information as opposed to fabricated parables or rules & laws decreed by shaman in the names of their deities.
There of course is a lot of religious followers who are more intelligent than I, but I view their belief in their religion as a flawed human trait...
Some humans need drugs to cope with life, some need religion. I don't see much of a difference, both are fundamentallly flawed creatures.
The protesters calling for this teachers death over a teddy bear should clue you in on how brainwashed an ignorant these particular humans are.
My Current Project |
Full Impact
STeeLGamers
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Posted - 2007.11.30 14:08:00 -
[66]
Originally by: DarkMatter
And that affects how many Christians or followers of Islam around the world?
Does it matter how many it affects? You said...
Quote:
Christianity doesn't suicide bomb, or look to proliferate weapons to kill infidels all around the world...
Maybe they did at one time in history, but that was quite a while ago, and civilization on the whole have evolved since then, except for the Islamic states that is.
I'm just saying you are wrong and that christians still have the capabilities to commit atrocious acts in the name of their religion. Just because someone being murdered doesn't affect you, it doesn't make it less of a crime.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
In general we do not reimburse due to lag in fleet battles though.
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DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
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Posted - 2007.11.30 14:12:00 -
[67]
Quote:
I'm just saying you are wrong and that christians still have the capabilities to commit atrocious acts in the name of their religion. Just because someone being murdered doesn't affect you, it doesn't make it less of a crime.
Of course not, but this argument that because some Christians still fight amongst themselves, while the vast majority do not, and would not attack Islamic followers based on the same fundamentalism that exists in these isolated groups has no affect on the current issue in the Middle East.
So a few Christians still want to kill over religion. Do we let these few control most Christian nations like Islamic fundamentalists do? No.
My Current Project |
Full Impact
STeeLGamers
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 14:17:00 -
[68]
Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
I'm just saying you are wrong and that christians still have the capabilities to commit atrocious acts in the name of their religion. Just because someone being murdered doesn't affect you, it doesn't make it less of a crime.
Of course not, but this argument that because some Christians still fight amongst themselves, while the vast majority do not, and would not attack Islamic followers based on the same fundamentalism that exists in these isolated groups has no affect on the current issue in the Middle East.
So a few Christians still want to kill over religion. Do we let these few control most Christian nations like Islamic fundamentalists do? No.
If you're going to change your original argument then obviously I have no point. It's good that you recognise it as flawed though.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
In general we do not reimburse due to lag in fleet battles though.
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DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
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Posted - 2007.11.30 14:22:00 -
[69]
Edited by: DarkMatter on 30/11/2007 14:24:36
Quote:
If you're going to change your original argument then obviously I have no point. It's good that you recognise it as flawed though.
I'm not changing anything...
If you think that there are as many Christian fundamentalists in the world, in control of nations states around the world as there are Islamic fundamentalists in control, then you're the one who's flawed.
The conflict in Ireland is a zit on the ass of Christianity. The Islamic fundamentalist movement defines the whole of Islam around the world.
If you can't see that, then you're not living in reality...
Why don't you compare apples to apples and tell me that there is more sectarian violence within christianity than there is within Islam?
Or tell me that more Christians dance in the streets when Islamic followeres die than the vice versa?
I never said 100% of Christians are immune to fundamentalism, or lack the ability to kill for their religion. If you inferred that absolute, that's your error not mine.
My Current Project |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.30 14:31:00 -
[70]
Both sides of that arguement have points and a grain of truth in them.....
As far as my knowlege of Islam is, there is a concept called Umar or something pronounced like that, which is Islam's stated goal of a global Islamic nation.
On the other hand it is one hell of a Zit that Christianity has in that case, the religion of much of Africa is Christianity right? And you will be making no freinds by playing down the Irish Trouble's in Britian, it was on the verge of a civil war according to my parent's who lived through it. The reason it wasn't declared as such was because Thatcher didn't want the UN troops in as a sighn of weakness to the world and Russia.
Rate my charecters please - 2M isk for a good review for the first 3 people!! |
DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 14:35:00 -
[71]
Edited by: DarkMatter on 30/11/2007 14:35:43
Originally by: Kirjava
Both sides of that arguement have points and a grain of truth in them.....
As far as my knowlege of Islam is, there is a concept called Umar or something pronounced like that, which is Islam's stated goal of a global Islamic nation.
On the other hand it is one hell of a Zit that Christianity has in that case, the religion of much of Africa is Christianity right? And you will be making no freinds by playing down the Irish Trouble's in Britian, it was on the verge of a civil war according to my parent's who lived through it. The reason it wasn't declared as such was because Thatcher didn't want the UN troops in as a sighn of weakness to the world and Russia.
Again, not to belittle that, it's certainly a tragedy. However, the Western-Islamic struggle affects many more people, and will continue to do so until the peace loving Islamic followers stand up to the fundamentalists and remove them as the figureheads of their religion... No amount of US bombs can make that happen... It will take strong leaders of men to make that happen.
My Current Project |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries
Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 14:52:00 -
[72]
Said strong leader's are killed before they can do anything.
The system is flawless, the strong elect new member's who are strong and follow their interpretation of Islam. Anyone who can oppose this is killed as a heretic, spreading information is also controled by the state. I would reckon that 99% of the people who can make a difference are dead before they get to the point of doing anything.
In this case outside support is needed, it can be said it isn't our problem and it is too large to do anything, we can either wait and hope for the best while keeping our guns bigger than theirs to keep them in their borders or invade, breakup and remove the previous rulers.
I would think that since the religion and state are so integrated, that an attack on one would be seen as an attack on the other and hence a nationalitic situation occurs and liberators are seen as oppressors from their perspective. Look at Iraq now for instance, I would like to think that it was for liberating that we went in and for a part it seems that was part of the myriad of reasons, Oil was a priority of course, spoils of war and all, but Iran will not fall until pushed.
Rate my charecters please - 2M isk for a good review for the first 3 people!! |
DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 15:06:00 -
[73]
Quote:
I would think that since the religion and state are so integrated, that an attack on one would be seen as an attack on the other and hence a nationalitic situation occurs and liberators are seen as oppressors from their perspective. Look at Iraq now for instance, I would like to think that it was for liberating that we went in and for a part it seems that was part of the myriad of reasons, Oil was a priority of course, spoils of war and all, but Iran will not fall until pushed.
Iran has the best hope of coming out of the Islamic dark ages without war IMO. They seem to have the most progressive young population of any Islamic nation out there. They seem to be more resilliant to the brainwashing than other Islamic nations.
With Iran, I think you definitely can take the wait and see approach. Even if you "let" them get nuclear weapons.
To do that however, the West needs a strong ally in the region, that is what Iraq is for, as Saudi Arabia has failed the West time and time again... Bush knows this, and having Iraq as an asset to the West's' goals and hopes for the region is paramount. More important than any oil we get from them at a reduced price...
So for the next 10-50 years while we wait for Iran to mature, we will have our 50,000 US troops as well as some other nations troops based there to keep an eye on Iran, and keep them in check.
It will work, it will just take time & resolve. Many Western nations lack the resolve as they are too liberal IMO...
My Current Project |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries
Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 15:22:00 -
[74]
Liberalism is the will of the people so it happens, thats the beauty of our system, that our policies change with the times the world enters. At the moment we have completed rebuilding after WW2, have come out the other side of the cold war and Eastern Europe being integrated back into Europe after communism.
We have made our bread and eaten it, we now know how our actions can have lasting reactions so are cautious as a society today.
Incidentaly, this just popped up on the BBC.
Rate my charecters please - 2M isk for a good review for the first 3 people!! |
DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 15:47:00 -
[75]
Edited by: DarkMatter on 30/11/2007 15:51:18
Quote:
Liberalism is the will of the people so it happens, thats the beauty of our system, that our policies change with the times the world enters.
I'm of the opinion that a "West" that is too liberal will not take the required action to bring about true change in the ME.
Bush's action may very well be the last time a leader of a Western nation takes actions similar to those of times past. I sure hope his actions do bring about the Iraqi ally we will so desperately need in 50 years, because the USA is on the path to an EU type liberalism, and there is no turning back IMO. And that type of Liberalism is a doormat to Extreme Fundamentalism IMO.
So let's hope Iraq becomes what many Western nations wanted Saudi Arabia to be many decades ago...
If not, we can expect many more incidents like this teacher debacle to occur for many more decades to come, all over the world.
My Current Project |
Valan
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 16:06:00 -
[76]
Originally by: DarkMatter
Bush's action may very well be the last time a leader of a Western nation takes actions similar to those of times past. I sure hope his actions do bring about the Iraqi ally we will so desperately need in 50 years, because the USA is on the path to an EU type liberalism, and there is no turning back IMO.
A hope in hells chance. Bush is deluded if he thinks his actions will create an ally in the Middle East. Its alienated even the moderate states in the Middle East and pretty much most of Europe.
The only people happy about it are Israel which is one of the reasons for the invasion. Secure Israel from rogue WMDs and they agreed to a new peace deal in Palestine. So the region could be stablised-ish. only problem is the Iraqis aren't that greatful and Israel only paid lip service to the new peace deal.
If you saw the news at the time days after the 'victory' was announced so was the latest road map to peace.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 16:19:00 -
[77]
Quote:
A hope in hells chance. Bush is deluded if he thinks his actions will create an ally in the Middle East. Its alienated even the moderate states in the Middle East and pretty much most of Europe.
That's only temporary. You have to look at the big picture, which is 4-5 decades down the road.
My Current Project |
Valan
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 16:50:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Valan on 30/11/2007 16:53:24
We know the long term perspective.
Even when you turn up in a country and give them a health service, education, railway lines and power stations eventually they rise try to kill you and kick you out.
The government are keen to keep troops there because they know they're a puppet government and will be slaughtered when they leave. They're seen as an American government. People aren't going to thank us for killing millions of innocents and destroying their country. All its doing is breeding more hatred.
Relations with the US and the Middle East are always going to be fraught for one reason. Israel!
We (UK) get away with it a bit more as we opposed the creation of Israel. We had to pull out of Jerusalem as we were being attacked by the Jews and Arabs. We tried to forge a peace but it was never going to happen.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Captain Hudson
Caldari
Intergalactic Space Defense Force
Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 17:21:00 -
[79]
You know, this whole thing is utterly stupid..why? . It's got nothing to do with Islam really. It is basically a Anti-Westen Govenment making a example and a statement, Sudan's version on Shira (sp?) law is not the same as other Islamic nations and the only purpose of this is to increase the tension of anti-westen and anti-islamics.
If it was really that bad British Muslim Leaders would not say this is a outrage and would not be heading out there on a special mission to gain a early release for her.
The Real Eve FanFest |
Lord Zoran
Caldari
CrAzyF1sTs
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Posted - 2007.11.30 17:26:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Lord Zoran on 30/11/2007 17:27:25
1. who the hell calls a teddy mohammed or whatever it's just asking for trouble
2. wtf?
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no sig for you !!! Yarr!?!?!?!?!
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Thorliaron
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Posted - 2007.11.30 17:32:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Thorliaron on 30/11/2007 17:34:22
Why is 'God with America' and why do American Christians see fit to try and control what all other christians in the west should do and say ( I.E. - the movie Golden Compass row), America also has some of the most fanatical christians i have ever seen or heard in my life and their all over the t.v aswell!, you lot did not find it first, we have a thing called a POPE to say whats right or wrong for christans.
Sort your own nutjobs out at home first before you shout and cry about something that people have been perfectly happy with long before America was even a glint in Imperial Britain/Europes eye.
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Keorythe
Caldari
Terra Rosa Militia
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2007.11.30 17:36:00 -
[82]
Most people who interact with Muslims on a daily basis know that they are good people and believe in peace through Islam.
However, its not the peaceful ones that make headlines. Its not the peaceful ones that stage protests or condemn evil acts very loud in public. Its not the peaceful ones who come to mind of a westerner when the word "muslim" is mentioned. Oh there have been some attempts to bring their image back into good standing but very little has been done. Personally I dont think its the noise the fanatics make that scares everyone as much as the silence from the "moderates" against it.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.11.30 17:43:00 -
[83]
Originally by: DarkMatter
I'm of the opinion that a "West" that is too liberal will not take the required action to bring about true change in the ME.
Its not ours to change, so why the hell do people like you continue to think that your world view should be everyones world view? You say you hate government meddling in your affairs, taxing you for the good of other citizens, and yet you advocate your government to control other regions of the world and reap from thing that which you can benefit.
You sir, are a hypocrit.
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Keorythe
Caldari
Terra Rosa Militia
Sev3rance
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 17:52:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Keorythe on 30/11/2007 17:57:10
Originally by: Thorliaron
Why is 'God with America' and why do American Christians see fit to try and control what all other christians in the west should do and say ( I.E. - the movie Golden Compass row), America also has some of the most fanatical christians i have ever seen or heard in my life and their all over the t.v aswell!, you lot did not find it first, we have a thing called a POPE to say whats right or wrong for christans.
Well lets see how to trash your pitiful arguement.
First, like you (and every other religion or atheist) Christian groups feel that they are the right ones and everyone else is wrong. Like you and everyone else, they want to influence their ways to others. Like you and everyone else, what they say only applies to those that are willing to follow it. Like you and everyone else, the "others" are all crazy and fanatical.
Jumping up on a stage and screaming "halleluya, amen pass the plate around again!!" is not being fanatical. Funny yes but fanatical no. Neither is voting against something your religion does not support. Does your brain even understand what fanaticism really constitutes? Hanging a woman because she was driving around in a car with another man is fanatical. Blowing yourself up in a market full of little old ladies is fanatical.
Then there is the Pope issue. You know, that kind of group leader kind of person. The same thing as an CEO, general, president, prime minister, etc. You know, the person that directs his/her people. I'm trying to figure out how you make a group leader type to be a bad thing. This is sort of one of those things that Islam could really benefit from but their attempts to form a unified college of leaders has failed too often.
Quote:
who the hell calls a teddy mohammed or whatever it's just asking for trouble
Mohammed is the most used name in the world, no joke. Whey NOT use it to name a teddybear?
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Lord Zoran
Caldari
CrAzyF1sTs
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 17:59:00 -
[85]
Quote:
who the hell calls a teddy mohammed or whatever it's just asking for trouble
Mohammed is the most used name in the world, no joke. Whey NOT use it to name a teddybear?
because 
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no sig for you !!! Yarr!?!?!?!?!
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Thorliaron
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Posted - 2007.11.30 18:03:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Thorliaron on 30/11/2007 18:03:50
Originally by: Keorythe
Edited by: Keorythe on 30/11/2007 17:56:14
Originally by: Thorliaron
Edited by: Thorliaron on 30/11/2007 17:34:22
Why is 'God with America' and why do American Christians see fit to try and control what all other christians in the west should do and say ( I.E. - the movie Golden Compass row), America also has some of the most fanatical christians i have ever seen or heard in my life and their all over the t.v aswell!, you lot did not find it first, we have a thing called a POPE to say whats right or wrong for christans.
Well lets see how to trash your pitiful arguement.
First, like you (and every other religion or atheist) Christian groups feel that they are the right ones and everyone else is wrong. Like you and everyone else, they want to influence their ways to others. Like you and everyone else, what they say only applies to those that are willing to follow it. Like you and everyone else, the "others" are all crazy and fanatical.
Like America like to enforce their views on everyone else?
Jumping up on a stage and screaming "halleluya, amen pass the plate around again!!" is not being fanatical. Funny yes but fanatical no. Neither is voting against something your religion does not support. Does your brain even understand what fanaticism really constitutes? Hanging a woman because she was driving around in a car with another man is fanatical. Blowing yourself up in a market full of little old ladies is fanatical.
Not really, thats just sharia law and is not widely used, but its all you hear about.
Then there is the Pope issue. You know, that kind of group leader kind of person. The same thing as an CEO, general, president, prime minister, etc. You know, the person that directs his/her people. I'm trying to figure out how you make a group leader type to be a bad thing. This is sort of one of those things that Islam could really benefit from but their attempts to form a unified college of leaders has failed too often.
Blinded by the Red Mist i see, i never wrote Pope is bad
Quote:
who the hell calls a teddy mohammed or whatever it's just asking for trouble
Mohammed is the most used name in the world, no joke. Whey NOT use it to name a teddybear.
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Valan
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 18:17:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Valan on 30/11/2007 18:21:23
Originally by: Lord Zoran
Quote:
who the hell calls a teddy mohammed or whatever it's just asking for trouble
Mohammed is the most used name in the world, no joke. Whey NOT use it to name a teddybear?
because
Its like one of the seven sins Idolatry.
So to name someone after him is praise and guarantees heaven. But naming an object is considered as sin.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 19:04:00 -
[88]
Edited by: DarkMatter on 30/11/2007 19:05:56
Why is 'God with America' and why do American Christians see fit to try and control what all other christians in the west should do and say ( I.E. - the movie Golden Compass row), America also has some of the most fanatical christians i have ever seen or heard in my life and their all over the t.v aswell!, you lot did not find it first, we have a thing called a POPE to say whats right or wrong for christans.
Sort your own nutjobs out at home first before you shout and cry about something that people have been perfectly happy with long before America was even a glint in Imperial Britain/Europes eye.
Difference is, the Christian nut jobs can say all they want to say to us, we're still free to choose. That's not the case in most Islamic states... You get lashed to death or your head gets cut off... Nice...
And DV, it's humanity's right to change civilizations that want to kill for superfluous reasons.
The USA is not the only country that wants Islamic states to change their tune, we happen to be the ONLY ones willing to do something about it.
But don't fret, soon the USA will be as liberal as the EU, and we'll let the extremists walk all over us, and terrorize us and, not fight back, because we don't want to offend anyone of the Islamic faith, as it's the most peacful religion on the planet...
So yeah, as long as the USA has the ability to change nations who do not conform to what we want, we're going to intervene. Don't sit here and tell me China won't be doing the same thing in ~50 years, or sooner...
My Current Project |
Troye
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
Acheron Federation
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 19:46:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Zamolxis
Linkage
Protests calling for her execution.
Wow it really is going beyond the ridiculous now.
_______________________________________________
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Derovius Vaden
|
Posted - 2007.11.30 19:57:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Troye
Originally by: Zamolxis
Linkage
Protests calling for her execution.
Wow it really is going beyond the ridiculous now.
Naw, rediculous is when they lash a *****victim for being in the company of a non-relative when she was attacked. I think they lashed the non-relative male as well. For good measure, they should lash the judge for hearing about a non-relative female being raped.
Lashings all around. 
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