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Euro or Dollar: Question about CCP kieron's post.

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Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.12.01 22:50:00 - [61] "There is a need for greater verbal discipline when making statements on exchange rates." - Bini Smaghi, European Central Bank Fellow Europeans, you have your instructions. Logoffs
Shandelzare	Posted - 2007.12.02 00:55:00 - [62] before you continue arguing about gdp and which is doing better, Europe or USA, GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!
Caldrion Dosto Mean Anglo-Danes	Posted - 2007.12.02 01:16:00 - [63] Quote: On a somewhat different note, I found it hilarious that Hugo Chavez (President, soon-to-be Dictator of Venezuela), threatened to cut off oil exports to the US. 90 or 95% of your exports are low-grade crude to the US. Have fun getting re-elected/not lynched when your country goes bankrupt. I mean it¦s not like other countries are interested in buying cheap oil now is it? (hint: oil are in high demand)
Drixy	Posted - 2007.12.02 01:57:00 - [64] Originally by: TardRusher On a somewhat different note, I found it hilarious that Hugo Chavez (President, soon-to-be Dictator of Venezuela), threatened to cut off oil exports to the US. 90 or 95% of your exports are low-grade crude to the US. Have fun getting re-elected/not lynched when your country goes bankrupt. Haven't you been following the news for like past 3 years? The demand for oil is constantly rising, especially with the rapid modernisation of china. The price of oil has been climing steadily climing, and the OPEC countries are under constant pressure to increase their production of oil. There is always some other country willing to purchase cheap oil, if available.
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.12.02 02:02:00 - [65] Edited by: Verite Rendition on 02/12/2007 02:02:32 Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 01/12/2007 15:45:29 To quote the Swedish example, does this mean that the Dollar "cost" nothing compraed to the Euro ? If a Swedish family have 30/40% less income than an American one, we can consider, due to the actual change US/Euro that the US family have twice the number of dollar than the Swedish one have in Euro ? So, if they pay Eve does this mean that a swedish customer pay twice (per value) than a US one ? I hope CCP can understand some swedish guys would rant about their price... In France the minimal income is 1 280Ç euro per month without taxes (~25%). A young guy (20/30) never earn more than 3kÇ a month. In UK, it's (a lot) more but life is expensive there. In switzerland... 3 times these salaries in Swiss francs and life cost goldbars. So inside of the Europe geographic zone there is differences. A french player will pay a lot more than a swiss one, that, I guess, still pay in euros. It's not that it need clarification. VAT is not 50% of the price. The high dollar is lost anyway. You're looking at things the wrong way. Although CCP is Icelandic and uses ISK, their economy and money are tied far more closely to the Euro than the USD. Simply put, when the Euro is higher than the USD they're not making any more money off of players paying in Euros, because their costs have gone up at the exact same time. Meanwhile the weak USD means they're making less real money off of the Americans, but they also can't afford to raise the price of EVE because the American market won't pay more than $15/month. This is about the worst situation for CCP; ideally they'd like for the USD to be above the Euro, so that there's extra money at the end of the day after paying off all of their bills in Euros. The Americans in effect get a discount right now because it's the only way CCP can stay in the market at all. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.12.02 02:13:00 - [66] I wonder how many USA players EVE has, I have this nagging suspicion it's not such a huge number. Also, I wonder how many "USD" payers would quit if subscription price would be raised to 18 USD from 15 USD. C\|S\|I\|N\|x.
TardRusher RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 23:06:00 - [67] Originally by: Drixy Originally by: TardRusher On a somewhat different note, I found it hilarious that Hugo Chavez (President, soon-to-be Dictator of Venezuela), threatened to cut off oil exports to the US. 90 or 95% of your exports are low-grade crude to the US. Have fun getting re-elected/not lynched when your country goes bankrupt. Haven't you been following the news for like past 3 years? The demand for oil is constantly rising, especially with the rapid modernisation of china. The price of oil has been climing steadily climing, and the OPEC countries are under constant pressure to increase their production of oil. There is always some other country willing to purchase cheap oil, if available. Crude oil doesn't just magically process and refine itself. Finding another country to export to isn't a huge hurdle, although the US is the largest consumer of crude (and by-products). You also have to find a partner with the capacity to handle all of that crude, the logistics are staggering. Plus, if you **** off enough people, we may have to liberate them :p.
Hiryu Jin RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 23:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Drixy Originally by: TardRusher On a somewhat different note, I found it hilarious that Hugo Chavez (President, soon-to-be Dictator of Venezuela), threatened to cut off oil exports to the US. 90 or 95% of your exports are low-grade crude to the US. Have fun getting re-elected/not lynched when your country goes bankrupt. Haven't you been following the news for like past 3 years? The demand for oil is constantly rising, especially with the rapid modernisation of china. The price of oil has been climing steadily climing, and the OPEC countries are under constant pressure to increase their production of oil. There is always some other country willing to purchase cheap oil, if available. Crude oil doesn't just magically process and refine itself. Finding another country to export to isn't a huge hurdle, although the US is the largest consumer of crude (and by-products). You also have to find a partner with the capacity to handle all of that crude, the logistics are staggering. Plus, if you **** off enough people, we may have to liberate them :p.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.12.03 00:54:00 - [69] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Mr Tall Originally by: Vernius Rhombur Here is a hint for the European players: You can buy your gametimescodes for US $ and safe a lot of money with that. There are resellers in the U.S., who use paypal as payment method. Have a nice day! ^^ What he said. Just bought a 90 day GTC card from a US site, paid in US dollars through PayPal. Cost me ú19.50. You do realise you are technically obligated to report this purchase to the Inland Revenue/HM Customs and Excise so you pay proper tax on your 'import'? Whether they'll bother to enforce it or be able to catch you at it, is another thing entirely. Even if he did this, he'd still save money as opposed to paying CCP directly. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.12.03 01:07:00 - [70] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Mr Tall Originally by: Vernius Rhombur Here is a hint for the European players: You can buy your gametimescodes for US $ and safe a lot of money with that. There are resellers in the U.S., who use paypal as payment method. Have a nice day! ^^ What he said. Just bought a 90 day GTC card from a US site, paid in US dollars through PayPal. Cost me ú19.50. You do realise you are technically obligated to report this purchase to the Inland Revenue/HM Customs and Excise so you pay proper tax on your 'import'? Whether they'll bother to enforce it or be able to catch you at it, is another thing entirely. Even if he did this, he'd still save money as opposed to paying CCP directly. --P That may depend on exchange rates, but I'm not sure. I'm American and pay in $. At least I've got one thing going for me in this world. If there's anything else, please let me know. Originally by: Karen Serasia Because some idiot decided to sell an internet connection to me and didn't think of the consequences.
Vernius Rhombur	Posted - 2008.01.23 02:34:00 - [71] Originally by: Katharina Gorbacheva Originally by: Vernius Rhombur Here is a hint for the European players: You can buy your gametimescodes for US $ and safe a lot of money with that. There are resellers in the U.S., who use paypal as payment method. Have a nice day! You can't have a paypal account without a credit card, therefore you're stuck with local dealers. That's plain wrong.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.23 03:27:00 - [72] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 23/01/2008 03:30:43 Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 23/01/2008 03:28:21 Originally by: ElCholo Nah, USA hasnt invested in infrastructure - Hasnt built a nuke plant or refinery in ages, and will cost something like 2 trillion USD to repair all bridges in the country. We've been too busy investing in overpriced real estate and shaky stock schemes. The house of cards will tumble .. just a matter of time. The US simply should stop to start wars every second day ;). That would save so dam much money I can't even calculate so many "0"s g. The real terorists today are the US: "you don't follow our rouls? kkthxbye then we bomb you!!" :( The second part was this "don't matter if you have money, just use credits" mentality. Handle this shiny little plastics is somethink you MUST learn ... to bad 95% can't handle them. (yes, I still pay with cash instead of plasitc just to see by myselve "fu.., this think I don't realy need but like is realy expensive"). This two facts are the main economy problems of the US (and mybe the overuse of Oil/Gas). PS: was there one year where the US had not at least one war in the past 100 years somewhere around the world?
Simetriz	Posted - 2008.01.23 03:32:00 - [73] Personnally I think this whole thing is a joke. Why. Here are some Sateside prices. And what can you get for $15.00 The lastest DVD ... Nope $16.99 A night @ the movies $9.50 for the ticket don't buy anything else. A pizza depends where you get it. Cheapest is about $6.00 A pack of ciggeretes $5.40 The bottom line is $15.00 gets you nothing these days and you all are arguing over well PENNY's or MAYBE a $1.00 Get over it but if you can't I am sure there is a local cheeze dealer around that would be happy to assist you.
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2008.01.23 03:44:00 - [74] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Macmuelli Edited by: Macmuelli on 30/11/2007 16:20:18 what coud be fair to european citiziens? Switch global oil markets to the Euro That would probably push the US into an economic depression. Part of me thinks they deserve it (the richest top 5% anyway) but the more sane and sensible part hopes it doesn't happen. Tbh I'd be satisfied if people would spell Europe with the capital letter it deserves Iraq went to the Euro for oil sales, the US invaded. I don't particularly like the thought of kicking of WWIII, how about you? Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU!
Simetriz	Posted - 2008.01.23 03:53:00 - [75] I was just thinking about what $15.00 a month means too me. My Bills. Mortgage Home Insurance Flood Insurance Property Tax School Tax Home up keep (Loan for a new roof) All the other %(&%^(% I end up spending money on to maintain the house. ELectric Gas Cable Telephone Paper Water Car Payment Car Insurance Car Upkeep Fuel Food Health Insurance Dental Insurance COPAYS And probably several others that don't come right to mind. Perspective people. These forums are sometimes like two 10 year olds fighting over who has the bigger candy bar.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.01.23 04:07:00 - [76] This may have been brought up, but what about that VAT? Its my understanding EU sales get hit by it but US sales do not, this alone would make up for differences in currency. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2008.01.23 05:12:00 - [77] Originally by: Havanajoe Edited by: Havanajoe on 01/12/2007 21:25:29 Considering that Euro Struggles aginst a Single Nation in a Recession should clue you in on its strenghts. Ill tell ya what Ill cancel my account if iam forced to Use some socialist Currency along with the rest of my family. And from what ive Read from you Euro Trash is amazing. It Takes a good majority of europes ****ant countys to even meet the economic Growth of the United States. Its amzing haow the U.S is the Enemy when your not being invaded... oh wait Islamo facists that right .... i guess we expect a phone call from europe any time now . I love this man. Suck it up eurotrash, it costs what it costs, and heaven forbid you should not be able to afford a video game. As for OPEC, they don't have half as much oil as they claim. Link. See that big spike in the mid 80's? A bona-fide expert in world oil reserves told me that he has yet to find evidence of that oil even existing.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 05:57:00 - [78] I say ban all eurotrash scums and let The United Slates of Amerika play, plox It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Estel Arador Minmatar Damage over Time Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2008.01.23 07:05:00 - [79] Originally by: Del Narveux This may have been brought up, but what about that VAT? Its my understanding EU sales get hit by it but US sales do not, this alone would make up for differences in currency. It accounts for some of the difference (only about half of the current difference in fact).
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.23 07:14:00 - [80] Edited by: Drasked on 23/01/2008 07:14:18 Buy GTC from american retailers using paypal, 10 euro per month, gg.
skuko Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.23 07:33:00 - [81] Edited by: skuko on 23/01/2008 07:33:54 Originally by: Drasked Edited by: Drasked on 23/01/2008 07:21:40 Also a friend of mine pays with his CC but is charged in dollars, so is also paying around 10 euros per month, he say's there is no such thing as extra added costs. yup, accounts created BEFORE the EUR/VAT shiet hit the fan are still being charged in USD to this day...i certainly hope that never ever changes :) edit: speeling
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.01.23 07:36:00 - [82] Originally by: skuko Edited by: skuko on 23/01/2008 07:33:54 Originally by: Drasked Edited by: Drasked on 23/01/2008 07:21:40 Also a friend of mine pays with his CC but is charged in dollars, so is also paying around 10 euros per month, he say's there is no such thing as extra added costs. yup, accounts created BEFORE the EUR/VAT shiet hit the fan are still being charged in USD to this day...i certainly hope that never ever changes :) edit: speeling Well it's not true, since both our accounts created around the same time, and i never had the privilege of being charged in dollars, i think the whole thing is a bit scewed to begin with. In other mmo's i always got charged in dollars and there where no extra cost added. (ie: 14.95$ per month so i get charged around 10/11 euros)
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.23 08:32:00 - [83] Originally by: Hiryu Jin There can never be a "fair" price when it comes to money. Especially when you have to consider a gloabl market. When the EU can take over the rest of the world and standardize money, then you guys can ask for 'fair' pricing. As for the US economy collapsing... It might, but I don't see how anyone in the world would benefit from it (Other than those evil hedge funds managers). On a somewhat different note, I found it hilarious that Hugo Chavez (President, soon-to-be Dictator of Venezuela), threatened to cut off oil exports to the US. 90 or 95% of your exports are low-grade crude to the US. Have fun getting re-elected/not lynched when your country goes bankrupt. Long term it would benefit Europe if the american markets really crash. The main issue with the american economy has far more debts then for example the European economy (if you include personal loans and such). The result of this is that the US basicly consumes far more then it economically should. Hence if the Americans stop consuming more consumption goods will be available for Europe and upcoming markets like India and China. But yes short term (1 to 10 years) a crash of the american economy would be rather, err, catastrophic for every economy in the world. This is also true if either China or Europe would crash though, but quite frankly the chances of crashing are far greater for the US hence you constantly hear OMG WHAT IF THE US ECON CRASHES?!?!! --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.23 08:35:00 - [84] Originally by: Shandelzare before you continue arguing about gdp and which is doing better, Europe or USA, GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! One of the things is missing on that list is debts by the people and not the goverment, the US debt isn't a big issue by itself. But when you factor in credit card debts etc. it gets problematic. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Donald Knuth Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.01.23 08:38:00 - [85] Edited by: Donald Knuth on 23/01/2008 08:43:55 I would just like to point out, that in exchanging currencies, it does COST money. The people doing the exchanging (or the atm machine doing the exchanging) charges you money for the service (at least they do here in the US). I think credit card companies also charge a 1%-3% charge for foreign currency. The point I'm try to get at is, I don't think it's as much of a steal as you think. Heck, as a thought experiment, lets assume it is a steal. Currently 1 Euro = 1.45 Dollars. That means you would pay 10.35 Euro's for a month of EvE. In a year, you will save a grand total of 55.8 Euro's. I don't know what video games cost there, but PC games here cost around $40-50 dollars. By the time you add tax, you basically can buy one extra PC game that year, assuming you can break you addiction to EvE.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.23 08:40:00 - [86] Originally by: Del Narveux This may have been brought up, but what about that VAT? Its my understanding EU sales get hit by it but US sales do not, this alone would make up for differences in currency. No it doesn't. We only pay 20% sales tax, not 50%. Also americans do have sales tax, only not for items purchased over the internet from a shop that doesn't has an office (or salespoint) in the state the customer is residing in. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Kyoto Luyi Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.01.23 08:55:00 - [87] The Dollar is quite strong at the moment - if you look at it historically :) In 1948, for example, One US Dollar was worth ú 0.2480774001 British Pounds. When I was a kid my parents and grandparents still nicknamed a 'Crown' (5 old British Shillings) as a 'Dollar'. 4 Dollars to the Pound - scary thought. We'd never be able to export anything to the USA these days if we had that exchange rate
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.23 09:33:00 - [88] Originally by: Jas Dor Iraq went to the Euro for oil sales, the US invaded. I don't particularly like the thought of kicking of WWIII, how about you? If the USA starts looking at the North Sea they may find their arses in orbit..... Also about the Euro, Britain hasn't joined it yet which represents just over 2 Trillion Euros in worth, get the entirety of the EU in and the number's would be a different matter entirely. ~Nyron Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.01.23 10:05:00 - [89] Originally by: Vernius Rhombur Here is a hint for the European players: You can buy your gametimescodes for US $ and safe a lot of money with that. There are resellers in the U.S., who use paypal as payment method. Have a nice day! Guess what i've been doing for as long as this char exists. a single 90 day US GTC costs less than 2 30-day Euro GTCs.
Hohne Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.23 10:21:00 - [90] Originally by: Akita T I wonder how many USA players EVE has, I have this nagging suspicion it's not such a huge number. Also, I wonder how many "USD" payers would quit if subscription price would be raised to 18 USD from 15 USD. Actually 73,301 for 39.5% of the playerbase The next largest is the UK on 15.4%, Germany on 7.6%, Russia on 4.9%, Canada 4.9%, Australia 3.1% Think of it this way, they either have to deal with getting less money, by dropping their subscription rates in Euros, and maybe having to raise them later losing subscribers in the process. Or rais their US$ subscription rates, ticking off MOST of their subscribers who are outside the EU. (Being as non-US players pay in USD also). There is infact no way to change either subscription rate, and still retain subscribers. Their only safe bet is to do nothing, because EU players who are really worried can buy GTCs to pay with, and if the exchange rate changes and those GTCs start costing more, it will not be CCP that are blamed and so won't generate the same backlash.

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