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F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.12.01 06:41:00 - [31] One thing I noticed when typing up my above post was the changes between Isk and the dollar/euro. A few years ago when answer one of these threads I calculated the amount of ISK CCP got each month from the different subs. At the time, they made a LOT more from the US players than from the Euro ones. Now it's swtiched: They get about 986 ISK from US subs, and about 1370 from Euro subs, from which they then have to subtract VAT, so assuming 15% it's 1164 they get to keep for themselves. Interesting how things change. Originally by: Karen Serasia Because some idiot decided to sell an internet connection to me and didn't think of the consequences.
Vernius Rhombur	Posted - 2007.12.01 08:38:00 - [32] Here is a hint for the European players: You can buy your gametimescodes for US $ and safe a lot of money with that. There are resellers in the U.S., who use paypal as payment method. Have a nice day!
Karlemgne The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.12.01 08:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Katana Seiko You say that we'll have to pay "($ or Ç based on geographical location)" - So, do you decide where we are or can we change anything about that? Due to the current weakness of the Dollar a little change might be in order... Have you ever thought about charging your customers in ISK (I mean the islandic krona)? Credit Cards can be charged in all currencies you want, and the rest - well, if their currency drops, they'll need to pay more... Not to mention an extra $5 conversion fee. No thanks. -Karl
Karlemgne The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.12.01 08:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Macmuelli Edited by: Macmuelli on 30/11/2007 16:20:18 what coud be fair to european citiziens? Switch global oil markets to the Euro That would probably push the US into an economic depression. Part of me thinks they deserve it (the richest top 5% anyway) but the more sane and sensible part hopes it doesn't happen. Tbh I'd be satisfied if people would spell Europe with the capital letter it deserves That's a good idea. Economic depression in the United States, followed by Economic depression in Europe, followed by a world wide socialist revolution. You've got my vote! -Karl
Shakuul Caldari O RLY corp YTMND.	Posted - 2007.12.01 09:05:00 - [35] Originally by: Katana Seiko You say that we'll have to pay "($ or Ç based on geographical location)" - So, do you decide where we are or can we change anything about that? Due to the current weakness of the Dollar a little change might be in order... Have you ever thought about charging your customers in ISK (I mean the islandic krona)? Credit Cards can be charged in all currencies you want, and the rest - well, if their currency drops, they'll need to pay more... Pay in GTCs
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.01 09:05:00 - [36] Edited by: Andrue on 01/12/2007 09:07:12 Edited by: Andrue on 01/12/2007 09:06:45 I work for an American company now and it's interesting to compare with the Americans on our team. Overall there isn't much difference in life styles. We are all paid to the same nominal grading system (ie;according to the industry standards in our respective countries). The Americans have physically bigger houses but still don't have any spare room in them. Cars aren't actually all that cheaper..or not for the equivalent. Things that we take for granted (like climate control, electric windows) tend to be extras which even the field somewhat. Food is cheaper but eating out less so (especially if you want somewhere good). But the big equaliser is medical care. It would appear that they pay about the same as us. The difference is that we pay it in taxes whereas they pay it themselves. But overall life in the US seems to be pretty much the same as the UK. There would be a difference (esp. now) if you took a sabatical and kept your native pay but it seems like a software developer in the UK lives pretty much the same life style as a software developer in the US. Hmmm. One area that might be different (although I don't want to test this) is redundancy. Nearly all the US developers are working 'at will'. In the UK we all have contracts. It also seems that UK employment legislation guarantees us more than US legislation does. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Caldrion Dosto Mean Anglo-Danes	Posted - 2007.12.01 09:41:00 - [37] Quote: Why doesn't CCP charge subscribers' cards in Icelandic Krona? Because they might suffer from Inflation more easily then "euro land" or US. Because there is only around 350 000 (might be of by some) people in Iceland, making the currency very small and thus more likely to get in trouble. Thing like building an aluminum plant had a potentially bad effect on the inflation in Iceland.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.01 09:56:00 - [38] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/12/2007 10:01:26 Originally by: Zondrail Sadly, this is true. Consumer perception is idiotic at best. It's like Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. People are always looking for HD-DVD and saying it's better (personal experience here), when in fact, Blu-Ray is a better product, supported more, and less proprietary than HD-DVD. BUT, because people see a standard acronym like they are used to seeing (VHS, CD, DVD, etc.), they think, oh HD-DVD, that sounds like a DVD in HD... and it sounds less proprietary than Blu-Ray, so it must be better... when it is, in fact, not. As a codec developer, I'd like to laugh hysterically at how wrong you are. Blu-Ray = Sony-only. Created solely to serve the interests of Sony. Contains the BD+ DRM scheme, a completely anti-consumer system that is designed to literally wrest control of your computer from you during playback. HD-DVD = created by a consortium of corporations, to serve their interests. This is better than serving... just Sony. Does not contain BD+. But the simple, practical reason why Blu-Ray has already failed is because it costs 3 times more; nobody is going to pay more for zero real benefit, given that the HD-DVD bitrate allocation is already plenty for basically visually lossless quality. The only real reason Blu-Ray has any market penetration at all is the Playstation 3, which gave it a quick early boost but clearly didn't help it much at all in the long-term. Technically, the only benefit Blu-Ray has over HD-DVD is the slightly higher storage amount and corresponding higher maximum bitrate. But since Blu-Ray costs so much more, this advantage is basically negated completely. Both formats also support basically the same suite of video and audio standards. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! (updated)
Agil TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.12.01 10:01:00 - [39] Originally by: No Wai Originally by: CCP Wrangler For anyone living in the US it hasn't become cheaper just because the USD is low, they haven't magically gotten huge raises in salary. But for those with investments in gold for the past few years from when the USD was strong, holy hell, most.awesome.investment.EVER. Except that Gold has always been volitile. Its a cycle that people buy gold when it is expensive and sell it when it is cheap for some wacky reason. Of course, speculaters buying when its cheap gain the most, but sooner or later logic will catch up. Over the last 20 years so so, gold as a total increased only slightly more than inflation, so it has not been exactly the most awesome investment ever, but only useful for diversification.
Troezar	Posted - 2007.12.01 10:04:00 - [40] Seems a lot of EU v US stuff going on here when we should all fear the Chinese. Wait until they start exporting inflation via increased price of manufactured goods. Their internal market is getting stronger all the time. I'm no economist but it seems to me in recent history the people making goods from raw materials and selling them are the ones that end up with the money and the power...one or two examples of that in EVE
Katharina Gorbacheva Amarr Soviet Star Federation Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2007.12.01 10:20:00 - [41] Originally by: Vernius Rhombur Here is a hint for the European players: You can buy your gametimescodes for US $ and safe a lot of money with that. There are resellers in the U.S., who use paypal as payment method. Have a nice day! You can't have a paypal account without a credit card, therefore you're stuck with local dealers.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.01 10:51:00 - [42] Originally by: Troezar Seems a lot of EU v US stuff going on here when we should all fear the Chinese. Wait until they start exporting inflation via increased price of manufactured goods. Their internal market is getting stronger all the time. I'm no economist but it seems to me in recent history the people making goods from raw materials and selling them are the ones that end up with the money and the power...one or two examples of that in EVE China is certainly a significant factor but it seems to know that it doesn't exist in a vacuum (no large economy does these days). I think it would be very wary of doing anything that would upset its export markets. Of course if it did decide to it could seriously 'do over' the US economy by using its Dollar reserves to ramp up its oil reserves. It concerns me that if OPEC switched to trading in Euros China might be tempted to do just that. It might (just might) feel that it can survive by increase its exports to the EU. In effect switch primary trading partners. The EU would probably try to take advantage of that and might succeed. We squabble and faff around over a lot of things but when it comes to trade we're generally pretty good. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.12.01 14:49:00 - [43] Edited by: Akita T on 01/12/2007 14:53:15 Originally by: Agil TradeAlt Except that Gold has always been volitile. Its a cycle that people buy gold when it is expensive and sell it when it is cheap for some wacky reason. Of course, speculaters buying when its cheap gain the most, but sooner or later logic will catch up. Over the last 20 years so so, gold as a total increased only slightly more than inflation, so it has not been exactly the most awesome investment ever, but only useful for diversification. Err... I think you got something backwards. Gold is one of the few NON-volatile currencies to date. Just because gold price rises and falls doesn't mean gold is volatile, it's actually the currency you buy/sell gold in that's volatile. As such, gold price should always be quite steady (actually, slowly rising) if adjusted for inflation, regardless of currency used to trade it in. Heck, you can just look at XAU price in a country to see "at a glimpse" how that country's currency is doing. For instance, you can say (by looking at the XAU-USD and XAU-EUR exchange rates) that EITHER the USD-EUR exchange rate fluctuation is grossly exagerated compared to reality OR that the USA is pumping out gold reserves like mad in order to try and stabilize the USD. C\|S\|I\|N\|x.
Caldrion Dosto Mean Anglo-Danes	Posted - 2007.12.01 15:12:00 - [44] Quote: It concerns me that if OPEC switched to trading in Euros China might be tempted to do just that. It might (just might) feel that it can survive by increase its exports to the EU. In effect switch primary trading partners. The EU would probably try to take advantage of that and might succeed. We squabble and faff around over a lot of things but when it comes to trade we're generally pretty good. China would according to leading economists here at leasts choose politic over economy any day. Meaning that if they think they can "win" politically by dropping the dollar they will regardless of the cost (monetary cost). The "problem" for USA in particular when it comes to China is that they have a huge trade deficit vs China, (ie imports a Lot more then they export). And thy can¦t witch it of over night even if China drop the dollar and change to Euro pricing. What that means i that USA would immediately suffer from sharply raised inflation. In the long run USA might be able to stop imports or switch them out to imports from other countries but that takes time.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.12.01 15:36:00 - [45] Relax, the coming deflationary collapse will fix it. Logoffs
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.12.01 15:45:00 - [46] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 01/12/2007 15:45:29 To quote the Swedish example, does this mean that the Dollar "cost" nothing compraed to the Euro ? If a Swedish family have 30/40% less income than an American one, we can consider, due to the actual change US/Euro that the US family have twice the number of dollar than the Swedish one have in Euro ? So, if they pay Eve does this mean that a swedish customer pay twice (per value) than a US one ? I hope CCP can understand some swedish guys would rant about their price... In France the minimal income is 1 280Ç euro per month without taxes (~25%). A young guy (20/30) never earn more than 3kÇ a month. In UK, it's (a lot) more but life is expensive there. In switzerland... 3 times these salaries in Swiss francs and life cost goldbars. So inside of the Europe geographic zone there is differences. A french player will pay a lot more than a swiss one, that, I guess, still pay in euros. It's not that it need clarification. VAT is not 50% of the price. The high dollar is lost anyway. 2isk
Jtbenns Gallente Clan Wolf QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.12.01 16:52:00 - [47] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/12/2007 10:16:49 Originally by: Zondrail Sadly, this is true. Consumer perception is idiotic at best. It's like Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. People are always looking for HD-DVD and saying it's better (personal experience here), when in fact, Blu-Ray is a better product, supported more, and less proprietary than HD-DVD. BUT, because people see a standard acronym like they are used to seeing (VHS, CD, DVD, etc.), they think, oh HD-DVD, that sounds like a DVD in HD... and it sounds less proprietary than Blu-Ray, so it must be better... when it is, in fact, not. As a codec developer, I'd like to laugh hysterically at how wrong you are. Blu-Ray = Sony-only. Created solely to serve the interests of Sony. Contains the BD+ DRM scheme, a completely anti-consumer system that is designed to literally wrest control of your computer from you during playback. HD-DVD = created by a consortium of corporations, to serve their interests. This is better than serving... just Sony. Does not contain BD+. But the simple, practical reason why Blu-Ray has already failed is because it costs 3 times more; nobody is going to pay more for zero real benefit, given that the HD-DVD bitrate allocation is already plenty for basically visually lossless quality. The only real reason Blu-Ray has any market penetration at all is the Playstation 3, which gave it a quick early boost but clearly didn't help it much at all in the long-term. Technically, the only benefit Blu-Ray has over HD-DVD is the slightly higher storage amount and corresponding higher maximum bitrate. But since Blu-Ray costs so much more, this advantage is basically negated completely. Both formats also support basically the same suite of video and audio standards. Blu-Ray is much like Microsoft's VC-1; a standard designed by a single corporation to benefit solely themselves while competing with a widely endorsed international standard. Imagine if we had two DVD formats, too; perhaps one made by IBM and one made by everyone else? Sony is like that for all products to be rather honest. For example their cameras use the memory stick duo not the common sd card like the rest of the figital camera market bar some. With the blu-ray it is a reach to get a market share for themselves but sony only has so many movies. Its the same deal with the psp movie, its the movies owned by sony and sony is just trying to make people buy more oftheir own stuff which in fact makes me a sad panda... hd-dvd > blu ray This same thing works out exactly why VHS tapes were so predominant, because they were easy to make and the ** industry chose it. has such a large ammount of media shares that the reason for some formats is because of... !... Things like the internet is for have, sady, a lot of truth to them =O... I've also compared my wages and wages of friend in the USA to those in the UK and to be honest, it makes me even sadder. While i made $9/hr sitting at a desk reading eve forums doing nother or my friend works as a clerk runnin minimum wage of about $5.50 USD my friend in the UK makes about double that, MINIMUM WAGE. The only thing raises the minimum wage would do to us is run up the prices of things but if you compare the UK minimum wage to the us minimum wage from last i guess it was about doubled in the UK but im not sure exactly but either way the dollar is falling down. The canadians caught up and PASSED the US aswell, my Canadian corpmate would mail me a news link every day the Canadian Dollar went up and either way you just read a really really long post. Summary: Sony works for the good of sony UK = ~2x US in minimum wage Canada Caught up! ** is important for media And eve is worth it anyways, ain't it? --------------------------------- Jtbrnns "JT" Director [CLWO] Clan Wolf <Q> QUANT Hegemony Now Recruiting.
Xenissa PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.01 17:19:00 - [48] just abit back to the topic. I must say, that it is not a fair fee for europeans, IF you compare it to the monthly fee of the americans. but to be honest: 1) 2 or 3 euros more or less, doesnt matter 2) we pay the same amount as euros before the euro was that strong. so the only thing that changed, if you compare $ to Ç, the ratio. on americans earning more than europeans. maybe thats true, yes. if you count in the FULL INSURANCE europeans have, americans earn less money. not to forget out annuity. i am glad, that i live in europe and not in the us. i can say whatever/wherever i want, do not have some braindead *** as president, but pay alotmore for fuel :) greets, xenissa
Katharina Gorbacheva Amarr Soviet Star Federation Celestial Frontier	Posted - 2007.12.01 17:29:00 - [49] Originally by: Andrue China is certainly a significant factor but it seems to know that it doesn't exist in a vacuum (no large economy does these days). I think it would be very wary of doing anything that would upset its export markets. Of course if it did decide to it could seriously 'do over' the US economy by using its Dollar reserves to ramp up its oil reserves. It concerns me that if OPEC switched to trading in Euros China might be tempted to do just that. It might (just might) feel that it can survive by increase its exports to the EU. In effect switch primary trading partners. The EU would probably try to take advantage of that and might succeed. We squabble and faff around over a lot of things but when it comes to trade we're generally pretty good. I really hope this will happen.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2007.12.01 17:39:00 - [50] There is a folk tale about two brothers who find a cheese. Neither trusts the other to split it in two so a passerby agrees to split it for them. Unfortunately one piece is slightly bigger than the other and they won't accept that, so he breaks a piece off the bigger piece and eats it. Only now the other piece is slightly bigger so he breaks a piece off that. Etcetera etcetera until there are two equal sized but quite small pieces of cheese for them. The message is that sometimes exact equality is more expensive than it's worth. Here, for instance, the price of Eve is in Kronas. Equivalent prices in Euros and Dollars were set a while ago and now the currencies have changed their values a little but nobody is motivated to reset them to be closer to the Krona price again. Why? What would happen if they did? Would the Euro price really go down? ----- "Why can't you just be friends?" -- Oveur
Caine Azuris Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.01 17:41:00 - [51] Originally by: Scarcus Wow, having read the postings in this thread, I must admit that I did not realize the elitist attitude of the European player base. To think that I considered you guys civilized all this time. What a farce. No see its part of their elitist attitude to make you THINK they are civilized =P ------------
Kiviar Caldari Vice-Presidential Action Rangers	Posted - 2007.12.01 18:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Macmuelli Edited by: Macmuelli on 30/11/2007 16:20:18 what coud be fair to european citiziens? Switch global oil markets to the Euro That would probably push the US into an economic depression. Part of me thinks they deserve it (the richest top 5% anyway) but the more sane and sensible part hopes it doesn't happen. Tbh I'd be satisfied if people would spell Europe with the capital letter it deserves Except, an economic depression wouldn't hurt the top 5%, but it would seriously hurt the other 95% of americans. ---
Mr Tall Minmatar Freelance Assassins	Posted - 2007.12.01 19:16:00 - [53] Originally by: Vernius Rhombur Here is a hint for the European players: You can buy your gametimescodes for US $ and safe a lot of money with that. There are resellers in the U.S., who use paypal as payment method. Have a nice day! ^^ What he said. Just bought a 90 day GTC card from a US site, paid in US dollars through PayPal. Cost me ú19.50.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:06:00 - [54] Originally by: Mr Tall Originally by: Vernius Rhombur Here is a hint for the European players: You can buy your gametimescodes for US $ and safe a lot of money with that. There are resellers in the U.S., who use paypal as payment method. Have a nice day! ^^ What he said. Just bought a 90 day GTC card from a US site, paid in US dollars through PayPal. Cost me ú19.50. You do realise you are technically obligated to report this purchase to the Inland Revenue/HM Customs and Excise so you pay proper tax on your 'import'? Whether they'll bother to enforce it or be able to catch you at it, is another thing entirely.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:10:00 - [55] Edited by: Andrue on 01/12/2007 20:10:46 Originally by: Kiviar Originally by: Andrue Originally by: Macmuelli Edited by: Macmuelli on 30/11/2007 16:20:18 what coud be fair to european citiziens? Switch global oil markets to the Euro That would probably push the US into an economic depression. Part of me thinks they deserve it (the richest top 5% anyway) but the more sane and sensible part hopes it doesn't happen. Tbh I'd be satisfied if people would spell Europe with the capital letter it deserves Except, an economic depression wouldn't hurt the top 5%, but it would seriously hurt the other 95% of americans. I'm well aware of that. In point of fact since I'm employed by an American company it would probably hurt me earlier than most. It would also spread beyond America. That's why I wrote that the more sane part of me hopes it doesn't happen. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Havanajoe	Posted - 2007.12.01 21:17:00 - [56] Edited by: Havanajoe on 01/12/2007 21:25:29 Considering that Euro Struggles aginst a Single Nation in a Recession should clue you in on its strenghts. Ill tell ya what Ill cancel my account if iam forced to Use some socialist Currency along with the rest of my family. And from what ive Read from you Euro Trash is amazing. It Takes a good majority of europes ****ant countys to even meet the economic Growth of the United States. Its amzing haow the U.S is the Enemy when your not being invaded... oh wait Islamo facists that right .... i guess we expect a phone call from europe any time now .
Mr Broker Amarr Station Gremlings	Posted - 2007.12.01 21:19:00 - [57] euro is inflated, and overall the euro economy is hurting right now, expect devaluation soon
John Cento Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.12.01 21:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Havanajoe Edited by: Havanajoe on 01/12/2007 21:25:29 Considering that Euro Struggles aginst a Single Nation in a Recession should clue you in on its strenghts. Ill tell ya what Ill cancel my account if iam forced to Use some socialist Currency along with the rest of my family. And from what ive Read from you Euro Trash is amazing. It Takes a good majority of europes ****ant countys to even meet the economic Growth of the United States. Its amzing haow the U.S is the Enemy when your not being invaded... oh wait Islamo facists that right .... i guess we expect a phone call from europe any time now . wtf are you smoking, dude?
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.12.01 22:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Havanajoe Considering that Euro Struggles aginst a Single Nation in a Recession should clue you in on its strenghts. Ill tell ya what Ill cancel my account if iam forced to Use some socialist Currency along with the rest of my family. And from what ive Read from you Euro Trash is amazing. It Takes a good majority of europes **ant countys to even meet the economic Growth of the United States. Its amzing haow the U.S is the Enemy when your not being invaded... oh wait Islamo facists that right .... i guess we expect a phone call from europe any time now . Nice troll, but I'll bite... Euro struggles ? Excuse me ? The USD is falling** compared to the EUR, not the other way around. Socialist currency ? Would that be the USD ? Because, you know, there's actually about 40 countries (you call them "states") that use that "socialist currency" of yours. In Europe, it's less than 30 countries, and not all of them use the Euro exclusively yet. Hmm, economic growth you say ? From your very own "CIA factbook"... USA GDP (purchasing power parity):$13.06 trillion (2006 est.) USA GDP - real growth rate:2.9% (2006 est.) USA Inflation rate (consumer prices):3.2% (2006 est.) USA Population: EU GDP (purchasing power parity):$13.08 trillion (2006 est.) EU GDP - real growth rate:3.2% (2006 est.) EU Inflation rate (consumer prices):1.8% (2006 est.) I see roughly the same GDP, a slightly better growth rate, and a lower inflation. As for the rest of your post... utter crap. C\|S\|I\|N\|x.
TardRusher RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.01 22:28:00 - [60] There can never be a "fair" price when it comes to money. Especially when you have to consider a gloabl market. When the EU can take over the rest of the world and standardize money, then you guys can ask for 'fair' pricing. As for the US economy collapsing... It might, but I don't see how anyone in the world would benefit from it (Other than those evil hedge funds managers). On a somewhat different note, I found it hilarious that Hugo Chavez (President, soon-to-be Dictator of Venezuela), threatened to cut off oil exports to the US. 90 or 95% of your exports are low-grade crude to the US. Have fun getting re-elected/not lynched when your country goes bankrupt.

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