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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.14 07:40:00 -
[121]
*Imagines the pelican being in the raiden clone game, transforming and doing silly things as a boss of one of the stages.
Well... it may help to explain the system. When a pilot lands his u/i and ship changes, he loses controls of all moduels and its replaced with a more RTS UI instead. The UI will have unit slots instead based on the commanders skill, the ship, basic command, and advance ground forces commands total up to 15 'units' and tech 2 adds more allowing up to 20 or more. There is also empty reserve slots to allow for reinforcemtns. So if a smaller version is to be made a 'cruiser' sized one then it will have to lose functions possibly the pocket carrier which may be reserved for tech 2 only of the mobile bases.
The defending commanders get an equal number of defending units provided the plantary garrison has that many types.
Multiple armies are allowed to be landed though depending on location up to 3 per side, the bonuses of the defender will match the numeric stregth if avilable to the assailtants and the assailants will never get adjusting bonuses. AI defending commanders will muster far more forces than player ones and use some cheats to give it an edge, finding a hard to beat AI vs impossible to beat will be a challenge but it will give afk colony owners a chance to defend thier world while the cat is not there.
The other thing to consider is that most colonized zones are not friendly to atmospheric units. Player ships along with garrisoned fightersquadrons will make their days miserable, and add anti air cannons meant to destabilize the ships thrusters and power source from garrisoned units and upgraded facitilies. With no atmo to ground strike avilable until the ground commander points these places out with beacons or flares any ship that stays to long flying over not so friendly grounds will probably get shot down, which is why the tank on the mobile base had been emphasized along with far more reasonable speeds while in atmo.
Planet Fall suggests has atmo hit all space fearing ships with a speed nerf, frigates are the least hit while battleships suffer the worse and capitols dont fly over at all. Specialzed ships such as the mobile bases and maybe a support gunship/escort would be unaffected and will move surprisingly faster than most other ships in the situation, their spacefaring abilities is underwhelming though.
Every army will have a basic soldier and an AA option to shoot down annoying ships in the atmosphere. At least most other units can be traited.
Gallente will use the fewest types of infantry, and have the smallest squads of infantry they use drones for most of thier dirty work. Thier scout is fast and mean, thier tank is none the less the same, ramming ability of them on the ground units wouldnt be out of the question. But they do suffer from ranged abilties. Gallente are also highly mobile. So they may have jump troops, drone tenders, drone carriers, fast apcs, and rapid assault tanks,
Caldari are all about range, they also have the best scouting and counter scouting abilities, they are fairly weak in a head on fight but getting caught early by the caldari can mean certain doom, Snipers, Recons, a rapid scout viechle with little to no armaments, MRLs, and artillery tanks.
Amarr are hard shelled and very slow moving but their poweress on the ground is nearly unchallenged as they take one hell of a beating to bring down, they have heavily armored soldiers, APCs and tanks that just plow though everything one inch at a time.
Minmatar was all rag tag hootin adn hollerin sorta warfare and heavily empahsizes hit and runs and traps and distractions. They get infiltrators, dune buggies, mine layers, and atvs and thier tank can get most places other races tanks cannot.
general ideas for ground units atm there can be alot more.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.14 12:59:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Tarminic on 14/12/2007 13:00:51
Edited by: Tarminic on 14/12/2007 13:00:03
Some general ideas behind what I'm thinking:
The vehicles that I'm working on are much smaller than your mobile bases, most likely cruiser-sized. Their purpose is to deliver troops and armor directly to or behind the front lines and to provide fire support for said troops on it's way down or up. It's designed exclusively for operations in the atmosphere and as such isn't particularly fierce in space.
These vehicles are all WIGs (as I mentioned in my first post) so they rely on entering the atmosphere at a very steep angle and then skirting the ground at low altitudes, opening fire on any hot landing zones or targets of opportunity. Upon landing they quickly disgourge their cargo of troops, armor, or supplies, and immediately take off again.
(by the way, feel free to correct me if I've accidentally used one of your names)
Minmatar Orbital Combat Transport "Gale"
This ship looks somewhat like a combination of a Rifter and a Tempest. Large armor plates at the front provide defense for the ship on approach, and slide up and back once the ship has landed to reveal the troop bay. This configuration provides maximum firing freedom for disembarking troops at the expense of defense.
The fuselage sports two weapon mounts on either side that can fire both above and below the ship, but additional places mounted forward of the weapon mounts protect them and streamline the Gale as it enters the atmosphere. The command and control tower is located near the center of the fuselage, directly in front of the large SCRAMJET intake that powers the atmospheric engines. The intake runs along the top of the ship two the back, where it splits off into two engines.
The wings, starting at the back of the ship and sweeping forward and slightly down, are the most distinctive feature. This gives the Gale a large amount of maneuverability in the atmosphere at the expense of stability, slightly lowering the accuracy of it's weapons when approaching on full burn.
(Other Race Concepts Coming Soon)
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Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.14 15:41:00 -
[123]
Now here brings the next question do we want to give pilots 'players' the role of reinforcing personally? or are we going to allow a less riskier drone setup? You also gotta remember a cruiser sized in eve ship can field a very significanly sized force if specifically built for the role, at least 5000 soldiers various veichles and thier gear.
In the RTS system that we are going to suggest beliving it be the one of least lag, we arent going to have 5k soldiers kept track of, this will be a database nightmare while fighting. So simplification is unitization, eitehr make a unit a spawning contract to 'create' that unit if there is command slots avilable when the timer is up or have them as one use only so if they get killed you lose that unit.
So comprimising with your ideas
A cruiser sized ship would over qualify for a spawn point so either we are going have to size it down or fiqure out a new and fair mechanic. My senses tells me, put a cloak or stealth on it, becuase no other ship would be allowed to cloak in atmo. This may free it up as a mobile spawn point and close air support gun ship.
Current naming conventions
Gale is currently unused, only the Jourgmound Wrecker Oblierator Smasher Liberator are the currently selected names for the juggernaught the 3 civillian salvage ships and the mobile base. Amarr we have the Pinnacle or Testament Friar Page and Preist and Sanctuary. gallente have hte hepheastus and the prometheus and caldari have the pelican humming bird bluejay and sparrow with Bahamaut as the tier 2 dread.
Ground units naming is going to be very generic like gallente commando or caldari sniper or minmatar marine for examples nothing they arent like ships and require thier own special names also they are ground units other themese similar to the parantal navies can be used for the tanks for example.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.14 16:01:00 -
[124]
 Originally by: Nova Fox
Now here brings the next question do we want to give pilots 'players' the role of reinforcing personally? or are we going to allow a less riskier drone setup? You also gotta remember a cruiser sized in eve ship can field a very significanly sized force if specifically built for the role, at least 5000 soldiers various veichles and thier gear.
In the RTS system that we are going to suggest beliving it be the one of least lag, we arent going to have 5k soldiers kept track of, this will be a database nightmare while fighting. So simplification is unitization, eitehr make a unit a spawning contract to 'create' that unit if there is command slots avilable when the timer is up or have them as one use only so if they get killed you lose that unit.
So comprimising with your ideas
A cruiser sized ship would over qualify for a spawn point so either we are going have to size it down or fiqure out a new and fair mechanic. My senses tells me, put a cloak or stealth on it, becuase no other ship would be allowed to cloak in atmo. This may free it up as a mobile spawn point and close air support gun ship.
I have an idea - instead of dropping a very large amount of units on the battlefield, these ships drop units that can only be manufactured in orbit and then deployed to the planet surface. Due to their complexity additional space must be used to cushion and protect the equipment during the rigors of atmospheric reentry and the advanced maneuvers the ship must perform in the process of its deployment.
These units would be more powerful compared to the normal units capable of being manufactured on the surface, but they would be relatively few in number - perhaps a dozen tanks or so.
In addition, the player would have to actually maneuver these ships to the deployment site from orbit, which leaves them open to incoming fire from the enemy base or orbital defenses. I think that this balances the fact that the units it carries are more powerful compared to planet-bound units.
If we give these ships a configurable "drop bay" like a drone bay on standard EVE ships, we could even have ground units exist as producible commodities so the player could receive information from the base on the ground as to what is needed.
Thanks for letting me help out, by the way. 
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Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Freya Runestone
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.12.14 16:10:00 -
[125]
it might just be me. but looking at the pictures in the OP, none of the ship look particularly like the other ships from the same race.
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Doppleganger
Minmatar
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.12.14 18:56:00 -
[126]
The Gallente Teir 2 Dreadnaught "Hephaestus" looks like the love child of a Harbinger & Exequror 
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Haizum
The New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.12.14 19:23:00 -
[127]
I was thinking it looked a lot more like the Trade Federation dropships in The Phantom Menace.
Do you two (Nova Fox and Tarminic) have any ideas on how this would progress, rather than a single large expansion "C&C: EVE!". I'm sure I read somewhere (come to think of it, could have been about ambulation) that it would be a progressive approach with each phase like colonisation, production, combat being added once the previous was set up. Could be completely wrong of course, haven't played Eve in a while but this thread sparked my interest, if I had a working scanner I'd upload some concepts myself.
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If you are ferocious in battle, remember to be magnanimous in victory.
- Lt. Col. Tim Collins |
Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.14 21:12:00 -
[128]
To Tarminic
hmm more explination needed I guess, we wanted to give planets something seperate that stations will not allow to have and things for stations to get enhanced that planets wont have making the two places very distinct and not to many overlaps to make people think planets are just an over sized and over expensvie station. Simple things from bioengineering (reprocess dead people to mutate your blood line into another one(stats wise) or reroll your original bonus points) to trade goods manufacturing and demands
Another such feature was the NPC market, you wont be able to train (or convert) or purchase contracts for npc people in space stations, this includes military units and colonists only thing with people you can do in space is contract them to your ship as ship crew or in the cases were adding to your army, or use them in construction of ships that need specialist people such as colony ships.
The types of ground units to be made is quite flexible, but we wanted to give defenders a chance because attackers in most cases attackers are far more vigilant and harder to bring down. I mean look at current warfare, if you got a problem you toss more things at it right? Planet Fall ideas where supposed to move away from that mind set.
For example planetary guns can only lock 1 target per gun. If 1 gun locks 1 target no other guns can lock it. This gun has a very nasty AOE strike. So if you bring a metric tonns of dreads into seige mode to bombard the planet your bound to lose all of those dreads quickly before any real damage is done. Which is the purposse of the juggernaught, to provide a survivable means of attacking planets with fewer numbers required.
The beauty of the unitization allow players to chose how they want to use the units they trained hard for. You wouldnt put your captain commando as a one shot use unit? no most people would assign them to a garrison or another similar place where they can be constantly replaced until the ship or facility housing them gets destroyed.
There where also plans for npc ground missions so keep that in mind too.
Combat flow for space to ground follows
Player in space approaches docking ring (drops ships to and from orbit to atmo without burnup_
Player docks with the developed planet (undevelopeds will be treated like deadspaces)
Player is put into a concourse area, he can see the beacons for all the zones on the planet and high speed 'cruise' to the zone of choice, it will be similar to warping.
He'll be then place in the air space over the zone, landers will have the special ability to see markers for LZs and they have to fly to that spot before they can land.
New UI loads and player is removed from atmo when he selects land over the marker.
Player now concentrates on commanding the army and trying to win objectives or do as much damage as possible before its time to get the heck out of there.
Player then lifts off when done and returns to the atmo where he can flee or move to the next warzone.
end of combat flow.
Not trying to shoot your ideas down but we thought the process though see if it made sense and would be less stressed and many other considerations and we havent discussed our vision and I havent seen yours yet, Im sure vixie can explain things alot better.
There is a new bay called troop bays any troops put into the bay have to be paid the contract fee first before they are put in. similar to ship crew being put into ship quaters. Only troops and units allowed in it.
Dont have to quote me either just /to will do because I do post big... I love some of your ideas but we have to be very considerate of players, defender vs attacker, rich vs poor, smart vs dumb, and sever stress or programming complexity which is the worst part about design as well art gets it easer, the game mechanics parts doesnt.
I just wished vixie would hurry up with the PDF and i dont have to explain things anymore.
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.14 21:20:00 -
[129]
To Freya runestone: Please interate why your not really helping us out with a blank complaint sheet.
To Doppleganger : i think i might have the amarr one ready soon you might like that one as well. Im sorry if it looks amarrian there are supposed to be more blobbys but im not going to draw them all out and just wanted to get a basic shape since many of the capiotls are just overly complex.
To Haizum: The Planet Fall will be a series similar to revelations beginner interaction would have atmo flight, intermediate will have planetary interaction and final stage would have the RTS style game play. It might be better to have it in 4 parts instead however becuase we need to establish the NPC side first before giving it to the players for thier own. Similar how stations where npc first before people where allowed outsposts the similar format should be followed.
To everyone? still nobody voted for the prometheus version they liked better? <-_-> I need feed back on this before i commit to either one of those.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.14 21:50:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Tarminic on 14/12/2007 21:54:43
Originally by: Nova Fox
(Stuff about making planets a different style of combat than in-space and prevent blobbing)
I like the idea, but I think we can still do so with some form of cooperation...but how?
Quote:
For example planetary guns can only lock 1 target per gun. If 1 gun locks 1 target no other guns can lock it. This gun has a very nasty AOE strike. So if you bring a metric tonns of dreads into seige mode to bombard the planet your bound to lose all of those dreads quickly before any real damage is done. Which is the purposse of the juggernaught, to provide a survivable means of attacking planets with fewer numbers required.
I like the idea in principle, but I get the impression that this isn't going to work for the same reason that capital ship blobs exist. If you create one ship to do the job of five, why not just use five of those ships anyway?
Quote:
Combat Flow:
1. Player is in space by docking ring
2. Player Docks at Orbital Ring
3. Chooses Combat Zone to Drop to
4. Drops to Planet in chosen dropship
5. Commands Army, wins/loses/runs out of time, lifts back off
6. Repeat step 3 or go to step 2
I like this idea, but I still think we should include reinforcements from other players, but we should make this a two-man operation, not a two hundred man operation. How we can do this, however, is a bit more difficult to figure out. I'll have to think about this more...
Thanks for the feedback by the way. 
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Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Troye
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2007.12.14 21:50:00 -
[131]
Hi Nova don't have alot to add at this point other than wow @ the new gallente Prometheus design, it looks awsome, cant wait to see it completed. I think it needs to be alittle more linear though in keeping with Gallente designs, so less sharp edges and smoother more "bubble" like shapes. If they had that ingame I'd deifinitly be flying it.
I've done afew drawings for Gallente ships but need to get a scanner before I can show them online, my current one seems to loose loads of quality when I scan it in.
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.14 23:14:00 -
[132]
Comment about the blob
Remember how I said 1 planet gun per dread ship in seige range of the planet and planet guns shoot AOE attacks? bring 5 and your going to wind up with 5 planet guns firing. meaning those 5 drads will die 5x faster. Max guns on planets is 24 possible, so bring 24 dreads and they are all going to die before they get a lock on any ground targets.
but we arent ingoring other player we still want team work to be invovled. Multiple LZs for invaders can limit how many armies can land, the skills can bonuses can control how many units are on ground.
There is unlimited amount of orbital and atmo support just atmospheric will be stressed as they have to constantly mind the ground fire and garrison squadrons of fighters.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
The Last Stand
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Posted - 2007.12.15 00:03:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Amarr Teir 2 Dreadnaught Concept "Testament"
Damn, that's one awesome ship...
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Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare |
Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:21:00 -
[134]
Really? I didnt think it looked amarr enough...
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Troye
Gallente
Strix Armaments and Defence
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Posted - 2007.12.15 01:55:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Tarminic
Damn, that's one awesome ship...
*nods* That is sick and very original
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.15 02:49:00 -
[136]
i guess i finally hit the looks right on the spot, the earlier versions where shameful of the amarr design which is why the version i posted i sorta had the same feelings for. The minmatar will be cool once i figure out the back half.
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.15 22:05:00 -
[137]
blogging now on progress.
Havent skected it yet but the general idea thats driving the design of the Jourgmound (minmatar teri 2 dread) will be horzontially shaped instead of the nalfagar's vertical spine.
But it will make sense once you see both modes that I have to draw out in order to show it.
Now im still working on the aft (rear) section of the craft forward section was straight forward but the aft end has to support the front side and look minmatar and oddly all the minmatar capitols look a hell lot better engineered than the smaller ships which is rather confusing and caldarish in many apects, which is almost why i refused to do capitols in the first place, 3 of the races caps looked from the same race but i guess im noticing enough subtle differences between each of them to utilize it in the two designs concepted/sketched out so far Ill get better presentable concepts made soon.
Talked to vixie and she agrees that a cruiser sized 'mobile firebase' as she called it without the airstrike ability or drones would be a good and cheap idea for those wanting to do the ground invasion stuff without spending as much it will also allow better npcing levels to be added.
She thinking that a tech 2 version could be a infiltration lander dropped special forces to disable stuff without alerting the defenders until its too late.
While the original mobile bases tech 2 uped would be pocket carriers in space with only 5 fighters in space at a time though similar to drones and retain most or similar abilities for ground stuff.
So if you want tarminic go ahead and design the stuff.
Speaking of which the caldari lander is almost done, it will probably be posted before the shutdown today.
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.16 03:49:00 -
[138]
It is done ladies and gentelmen the caldari pelican!!!
Caldari Pelican Ground Command Ship.
Made some progress on the jourgmound design getting the feel for junkiness as i build up the midsection up and aft section.
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Guilty Sin
ADAMA Corps
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.12.16 04:49:00 -
[139]
all of those say bandwidth exceeded when viewed
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Guilty Sin
ADAMA Corps
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.12.16 04:49:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Guilty Sin on 16/12/2007 04:50:05
all of those in the first few post say bandwidth exceeded when viewed
hmmm double post and no idea how to delete one
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.16 04:53:00 -
[141]
I just checked them all they worked fine more me?
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Guilty Sin
ADAMA Corps
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.12.16 04:58:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Guilty Sin on 16/12/2007 05:00:05
Edited by: Guilty Sin on 16/12/2007 04:58:25
not for me
http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/andrewbrandon19/random%20stuff/?action=view¤t=exceeded.jpg
/me shrugs
EDIT the last 2 links in Post 2 work for me but not the rest
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.16 05:01:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 16/12/2007 05:03:19
you can veiw some of my works at
http://novafox.deviantart.com/
they should all be in the eve online folder, but only the completed stuff is there all the other stuff isnt there yet.
Until that bandwidth problem goes away I dont know what to tell you, ill contact chibbera next time i see him log on about it.
Tried it with firefox and it was okay too, anyways whos serverage.net? is that your isp?
TBH though chibbera's servers do need help and donations, i dont think they barely made the amount they needed last time :(
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Guilty Sin
ADAMA Corps
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.12.16 05:03:00 -
[144]
nice. those are pretty good
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.16 05:08:00 -
[145]
I looked around and found out im not the only one with eve-files hosting problems... I really hate to make mirrors as it will eat up my entire character limit sigh... And im not really in the motion to advertise my deviant art account its not really proper to take advantage of it that way.
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Tzar'rim
Minmatar
Reckless Corsairs
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Posted - 2007.12.16 11:08:00 -
[146]
/me looks at the designs and shipname "Promethus".... are you by any chance an ex-Starsiege player?
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Act quickly, think slowly. |
Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.16 14:33:00 -
[147]
prometheus brought down fire from the gods to man, it sorta makes sense togive a lander such name bringing a form of fire down to the surface. The design came about looking at the comet, hyperion, and some deco art, the bullet train design sorta fell though and was heavily used in the shape and consturction. So if there concidence between my design and star seiges thats what it will remain cocincedence.
As for star seige never played it or heard of it.
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2007.12.17 09:47:00 -
[148]
Jourgmound is about to be done in the concept phase its shaping up to be fine working of the 'megabarrel' on minmatarifing it. And i guess ill start work on the promethus.
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Admiral Hayes
Caldari
Confederation of Red Moon
Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.12.17 11:31:00 -
[149]
cool ships nova
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Taihira
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Posted - 2007.12.17 14:41:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Taihira on 17/12/2007 14:42:32
Originally by: Nova Fox
prometheus brought down fire from the gods to man, it sorta makes sense togive a lander such name bringing a form of fire down to the surface..
In which case, prometheus should be reserved for a class of logistics/defense platforms that guard and shelter footsoldiers, by giving them safety (the equivalent of bringing them fire and warmth), not "bringing fire down on" the people.
So, for actually understanding what Aeschylus wrote about promethius' role in protecting, nurturing, and bringing civilisation to mankind, Nova Fox 1, Classics, 0.
A more accurate falling fire from the sky would be Phadton or Phaethon, the son of helios, who, according to Hesiod, requested the right to prove his parentage (or has the tremerity to steal) by controlling Helios' sun-chariot, only to lose control of its path, and desecend upon the surface of the earth, destroying all beneath, scorching the ground, and turning much to desert.
Now that would be bringing of fire upon the surface appropriate for a warship.
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