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Multiple accounts: Is it unfair?

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Jukhta Mein	Posted - 2007.12.06 05:50:00 - [61] Seems like most players seem to think that it's ok because of the maxim "life is unfair anyway". I won't argue with that, but I do hope you apply the same thinking when absurd, negative things crop up in life like your property agent cancelling out on you last-minute because he had a better offer, your boss firing you over a pretty newcomer girl, your girlfriend/wife leaving you for another man who is richer, you get robbed in broad daylight, your entire family being wiped out in a natural disaster etc. Life is unfair anyway, too bad some people are luckier than others. People say that it is not really feasible to experience the game's content with just 1 character who specialises in 1 or 2 professions. This still isn't enough justification in my opinion, as you can simply create multiple characters on a single account, or multiple characters on multiple accounts, but do not allow users to run more than 1 client at any one point. People also say that running multiple accounts being paid for in ISK requires hard work too, but you must be making a profit from having all your accounts - or you wouldnt be running them -, and this profit will undermine the profits being earned by a single-account player who earns disproportionately less when comparing the same activity engaged in. "The single-account player can always get another account to be competitive", so you say. And if he doesn't, too bad. Well I for one find it a pity Eve has to go down this way, where multiple accounts are quite necessary to experience more content, get more convenience, be more competitive, or whatever other reasons you have multiple accounts for.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.12.06 05:54:00 - [62] Two accounts in one player's hand, or two good friends playing in the same room each on their own account. What's the difference ? Right... the two guys have an advantage over that one guy with two accounts, since they can dedicate their full attention to each of their characters. Unfair, I tell you, bloody freaking unfair ! How's that for an argument ? C\|S\|I\|N\|x.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.06 05:58:00 - [63] Originally by: Akita T Two accounts in one player's hand, or two good friends playing in the same room each on their own account. What's the difference ? Right... the two guys have an advantage over that one guy with two accounts, since they can dedicate their full attention to each of their characters. Unfair, I tell you, bloody freaking unfair ! How's that for an argument ? Well said Akita... very well said. I have two accounts, and i like it that way.... ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :)
Jukhta Mein	Posted - 2007.12.06 07:54:00 - [64] Originally by: Akita T Two accounts in one player's hand, or two good friends playing in the same room each on their own account. What's the difference ? Right... the two guys have an advantage over that one guy with two accounts, since they can dedicate their full attention to each of their characters. Unfair, I tell you, bloody freaking unfair ! How's that for an argument ? We have to be sure that that really is a polished argument first. In the example you gave we are comparing total number of accounts, which is 2 versus 2. I am however more interested in comparing the effects of each player using 1 or more accounts. Which means that in your example it has to be 2 players with an account each versus another 2 players with 2 or more accounts each. If you're trying to make a point that there are multiple instances where single-account playing is "unfair" as well, like when 2 buddies live in the same place and frequently play Eve in the same room together, thus having superior communication, then let me point out that it's made even worse when they have multiple accounts each. In short: 1 player/1account < 1 player/2 accounts < 2 players/1 account each < 2 players/2 accounts each.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.12.06 07:56:00 - [65] Edited by: Garia666 on 06/12/2007 07:56:15 now a days you almoste cant go with out multiple account. since half the ships needs cyno`s or you need a scout to travel. an guy to pick up ur loot.. ->My Vids<-
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.06 07:58:00 - [66] Originally by: Jukhta Mein I was reading another thread on the purchase of ISK via GTCs (http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=649675), and a few people commented that the person in question would never appreciate the game fully because he doesn't know the true value of ISK and hence, the ships and equipment that he buys with it. I thought about it a while and realised the same kind of thinking can be applied to players utilising multiple accounts. Before we go into that however, lets look at some common examples at how multiple accounts, or alts, are being used: - mission-runner + salvager - hauler/travelling ship + scout - trader + trader (basically having an alt in another region to check out prices) - capital ship + cyno ship - miner + hauler All of these examples bring about convenience to their users. On top of that they either increase the rate of flow of ISK for their users or decrease the risks undertaken in the respective activities, as compared to single-account characters who do everything in one window. Now doesn't this undermine both the value of ISK and the value of teamwork in Eve? The value of ISK is undermined because multiple-account users generally earn ISK much faster than single-account users in the same activity, not through ingenuity or innovation but through the virtue of having paid for more accounts. Now if you think that that's all fair - after all, they paid with real-life money for that advantage, didn't they - then I assume you think that there's nothing wrong with buying ISK with money. Same goes for the value of teamwork. I got attracted to Eve initially by its promise of co-operative play. I was disappointed when I found out that you don't need a hauler to haul for you when you mine - you can create a hauler alt. You don't need a team-mate to scout for you - you can create a covert ops alt. You don't need players to help you run through missions - you can create a few alts and zap through them all by yourself, all the while salvaging by the sidelines. At the core of things, you don't need to balance income-generation and pvp activities - you can just create an industrialist alt and let him earn isk while you pvp. This undermines both the value of ISK and teamwork. I'm not saying that people who use multiple accounts don't understand the value of isk and teamwork. I just feel that they would appreciate both values more when they're on a single account, working with other players on their single accounts. And yes, I do feel a certain unfairness in people using multiple accounts. It's hard to describe or qualify this feeling of unfairness, but it's a similar feeling to when someone is able to afford that carrier simply because he bought isk, as opposed to working hard for it or pooling the isk together with his friends or corpmates. ] Comments appreciated. In particular I would like to hear the thoughts of other single-account pilots - do you think there's an unfair advantage of multiple-account pilots over you? Would you ever get another account? Why not? I have 1 account and see having more than one a hassle. I don't care about industry, mining, or carebearing. 1 account is all I need. ________ "It's a good day to die!"
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2007.12.06 08:01:00 - [67] Several points to make here. 1) I don't believe it's unfair to run multiple accounts since anyone can do this. "Unfair" is an advantage one person has that another person cannot also have. Now, with GTC's for ISK, anyone can pay for more than one account. If you can increase income generation with more than one account then you can use that extra income to pay for the accounts. 2) Even if CCP decided that they didn't want people to run multiple accounts, how exactly could it be stopped? Only allow 1 connection per IP - wouldn't work, multi-account users could use proxies and people sharing internet connections would be unfairly penalized. 3) What makes you think MMORPGs (any any computer game) have to (or CAN be) fair? You could argue that someone with a nice, fast computer with a shiny new graphics card has an unfair advantage over someone with a 4-year old clunker of a PC. Sorry, life isn't fair, and neither is virtual life. If you think CCP really consider total "fairness" to be a part of EVE then you clearly weren't around during the T2 lottery. Using multiple characters in MMORPG's isn't the "easy free money" that people think it is. If you complain about it then you should actually try it first, so that you have some idea what you're talking about really. Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.06 08:17:00 - [68] Originally by: Error404 If anyone has more than one account then they're sad and should go out more. I wake for work at 6am and then get home at 4pm, i'll often fall asleep cause i'm knackared and then have to go to work when i wake up. On Saturday's it'll be time to go out drinking with the lads and then the only day i really get time to play is on a Sunday. I can't see where anyone else would egt the time to play on more than one account, unless they really prefer sitting on their PC to going out and seeing the world. Maybe not everyone lives the same way you do. Many don't sleep for 14 hours a day. People who play EvE instead of watching TV, for instance? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.06 08:44:00 - [69] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Lifes not fair. ..and then you die. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Grim Vandal Caldari Burn Proof	Posted - 2007.12.06 08:55:00 - [70] AGAIN the whole point is: Should a high sec char be able to give money directly to a low sec char? and should this be traceable and should after sometime every char be forced to join a corp? I have nothing against multiple accounts, but I do have a problem if say a pirate finances his ships with his 1.0 empire carebear npc char in a npc corp. On the other hand it is money for ccp and that is it what seems to count these days. sad but true still I want that new supercomputer! so all buy some more char now pls Greetings Grim
xavier69	Posted - 2007.12.06 09:05:00 - [71] I went down to the bad side of town yesterday and it was totally unfair man, Two huge guys beat the ever living snot out of me, I kept screaming stop this isnÆt fair but they just kept kicking the crap out of me. I told them I was going to get the DEVS too Nerf their punches as they do too much damage and it was totally unfair I tell youà
Ralle030583 Gallente Mystic Lion Hearts Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.12.06 09:08:00 - [72] i have also more than one account, but dont see why its "unfair" cause i pay for every one Quote: I'm not saying that people who use multiple accounts don't understand the value of isk and teamwork. I just feel that they would appreciate both values more when they're on a single account, working with other players on their single accounts. You can belive me many many ppl with multiple accounts know how teamwork works, there is no difference in teamwork with single player accounts or with ppl who all use 2-3 accs at same moment, its only more work and harder to handle, specially in PVP :-) And to the unfair income... sure you can make more isk with multiple accounts but you also working for it.. you dont get ISK income for only have more accounts.. you have to play with them, like a single player with one the only difference is that you play like 2 friends who sit nearby You need a free Killboard? check: http:\\www.eve-kill.net Originally by: CCP Sharkbait i have untrashed this bug report and i will take car
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.06 09:22:00 - [73] Originally by: Grim Vandal AGAIN the whole point is: Should a high sec char be able to give money directly to a low sec char? and should this be traceable and should after sometime every char be forced to join a corp? I have nothing against multiple accounts, but I do have a problem if say a pirate finances his ships with his 1.0 empire carebear npc char in a npc corp. On the other hand it is money for ccp and that is it what seems to count these days. sad but true still I want that new supercomputer! so all buy some more char now pls Well the pirate can do that with an alt on the same account. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Fuzion Infinity Gallente Club Vandersexxx	Posted - 2007.12.06 09:29:00 - [74] I have one account, and I still feel that this is a ridiculous point your trying to make. If the pay for it with ISK or with real money, their still putting forth an extra effort to support both account, or however many accounts they have; not to mention the price for a second computer, or a computer that can handle multiple EVE clients at once with ease. I don't even see where your going with the buying ISK thing, completely irrelevant in my opinion. Team work? There will always be team work, the day I see one man with 100+ accounts leading a fleet operation in 0.0, I'll agree with you. I guess my point is, You get what you pay for. ~ Oh I give up, they keep nerfing my signature. :-\|
Rjaiajik Kajvoril	Posted - 2007.12.06 09:50:00 - [75] To OP: The people who run multiple accounts to avoid teamwork and gain as much ISK as possible are clearly selfish people. Would you want to work with these people. Personally, I feel if they have the time and money to run two accounts let them. It bothers me very little. I'll find people to play with on EVE and often end up in groups of 3-5 people. We have fun.... those poor sods have to play with themselves, and not in a good way.
Jukhta Mein	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:28:00 - [76] Originally by: Fuzion Infinity I have one account, and I still feel that this is a ridiculous point your trying to make. If the pay for it with ISK or with real money, their still putting forth an extra effort to support both account, or however many accounts they have; not to mention the price for a second computer, or a computer that can handle multiple EVE clients at once with ease. I don't even see where your going with the buying ISK thing, completely irrelevant in my opinion. Team work? There will always be team work, the day I see one man with 100+ accounts leading a fleet operation in 0.0, I'll agree with you. I guess my point is, You get what you pay for. To the above poster and the rest, I assume you have no issues with people not earning isk and just buying it via GTCs or other methods to purchase ships and equipment or POSes for whatever purposes. Such people are, after all, using their real life money anyway.
Kirao	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:31:00 - [77] Edited by: Kirao on 06/12/2007 14:31:17 >>>> The people who run multiple accounts to avoid teamwork and gain as much ISK as possible are clearly selfish people. I run multiple accounts. Generally use two at once during CORP mining/fleet ops. That make me selfish ? Or in fact the opposite, providing at my expense, and extra body out on the battlefield to assist my small corp ?
Jukhta Mein	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:38:00 - [78] Originally by: Kirao Edited by: Kirao on 06/12/2007 14:31:17 >>>> The people who run multiple accounts to avoid teamwork and gain as much ISK as possible are clearly selfish people. I run multiple accounts. Generally use two at once during CORP mining/fleet ops. That make me selfish ? Or in fact the opposite, providing at my expense, and extra body out on the battlefield to assist my small corp ? In other words, we have reached a stage where we need multiple accounts to be more competitive.
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:45:00 - [79] Originally by: Ulstan Much like the rest of EVE, life, the universe, and everything, it is indeed unfair. Exactly And this is where EvE is nice, it's not fair :) -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware - Oveur
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2007.12.06 14:54:00 - [80] Well theyre definitely not fair, but theyre also not going away. One of the down sides of MMOGs is their heavy reliance on character stats to do stuff is it encourages people to game the system with multiple accounts. As far as my personal opinions on the matter, I dont really care. I grew bored with the dumbing down of combat mechanics a while back, so aside from the occasional bomber run to .0 I just chill wit friends and occasionally kill npcs to make money so its all good. When I feel like being competitive, I hit up TF2...no dual logging there. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
oingo Gallente 23rd Armor Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.06 15:15:00 - [81] I have 3 accounts all in the 30mill-40 mill sp range. 1 pvp, 1 capital and a jack of all trades...There is one side to this that I have not seen brouht up here...these accounts are costing me a fortune in isks to keep the books and ships they need coming in. My game time has also been greatly reduced for RL reasons so when I do get to play it is nice to be able to spend a few hours on all accounts to make $$ than the next few times I am on I can do alliance/corp activities....

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