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Undock - dock stealth nerfed? I think so

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Orion Eridanus Dark Nova Crisis	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:15:00 - [91] CCP add this feature to all stations. I'm tired of targets docking and undocking. They have local, if they arent smart enough to look at it before undocking then they deserve to lose their ships. Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
Laashi Nogota	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:17:00 - [92] One of my biggest *****es about EVE is that there is no way to see outside of a station. It makes no freakin' sense that a shuttle has a scanner that can pinpoint every object within 400km instantly, but a HUGE station doesn't even have a bloody window! Simple fix: Your overview should be accessible while docked. And yeah, you should be invulnerable for a time after undocking. Different people have different connections/computers and need some time to get loaded before being expected to defend themselves. duh.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:19:00 - [93] er Ki, I'm pretty sure he was agreeing with you heh Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Vando Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:25:00 - [94] Originally by: Orion Eridanus CCP add this feature to all stations. I'm tired of targets docking and undocking. They have local, if they arent smart enough to look at it before undocking then they deserve to lose their ships. Agreed, this 'bug' was the best part of the new patch for me
The Monkeysphere Enterprise Estonia	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:51:00 - [95] Originally by: Vando Originally by: Orion Eridanus CCP add this feature to all stations. I'm tired of targets docking and undocking. They have local, if they arent smart enough to look at it before undocking then they deserve to lose their ships. Agreed, this 'bug' was the best part of the new patch for me Man, Vando, your posts are as horrible as ever :(
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:57:00 - [96] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn please describe the change...... in a gallente station I ended up at 3.smth km from station upon undocking. Yup, some stations now ping you right out the door with a swift kick up the rump. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.12.06 18:59:00 - [97] Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/12/2007 18:59:21 Originally by: Laashi Nogota but a HUGE station doesn't even have a bloody window! They do have windows, sometimes i sit above my station above the big glass dome and zoom right in so close I can make out the trees by the little pond in the bio dome and imagine myself sat under the tree in my pants, eating an ice cream and reading a book SKUNK
Rake Mizar Tenth Legion Holdings Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:01:00 - [98] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/12/2007 18:59:21 Originally by: Laashi Nogota but a HUGE station doesn't even have a bloody window! They do have windows, sometimes i sit above my station above the big glass dome and zoom right in so close I can make out the trees by the little pond in the bio dome and imagine myself sat under the tree in my pants, eating an ice cream and reading a book SKUNK why?
Zergelus	Posted - 2007.12.06 19:11:00 - [99] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Grimm Myn I dont get it, whats so bad about the change? The bad thing is that you can't see what's happening outside the station from the inside. Well, maybe with ambulation we get some frikking WINDOWS. Now THAT is a great idea. We should be able to consult the base radar and get a scan around the station.
Volir Deep Space HVAC	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:27:00 - [100] Allow people to view the outside of the station while docked. You shouldn't need an alt account or scout just to see if you can undock. Stations are not meant to be war dec pinatas.
Ogdru Jahad Amarr The BlackHand Order Division of Eden	Posted - 2007.12.06 20:31:00 - [101] Insta undock joo fool!!! - At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.07 15:01:00 - [102] Originally by: Volir Allow people to view the outside of the station while docked. You shouldn't need an alt account or scout just to see if you can undock. Stations are not meant to be war dec pinatas. Do you also think that you should allow people to see the other side of the gate without a alt or scout or corpmate? At least in station, you have local. The guy jumping though gate does not even have that. -- Billion Isk Mission
Surreptitious Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.07 15:11:00 - [103] Edited by: Surreptitious on 07/12/2007 15:13:22 Perfect!! 99% of the PVP in this game is camping/waiting anyways so this makes it that much easier to get action. I typically sit outside a station/gate and play WOW until I see something red on my overview and then I actually play EVE. Most of the time my target just redocks but now at least I will have a chance. Syrup Edit hey Skunk!!!
Tirabi Caldari OH Corp	Posted - 2007.12.07 15:24:00 - [104] I had similar issues where I undocked and then immediately without any guidance from my controls, went into warp back to the station I had just undocked from.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.07 15:46:00 - [105] Originally by: Lord WarATron So I take it you are also a person who thinks that gates should allow 100% risk free ability to check whats on the other side? Sorry your argument makes no sense. Why? I will tell you Camping a gate and camping a station is exactly the same thing fundamentally, except the station makes it easier for the mark. The mark can see local, the guy jumping though gate cannot. Therefore to make things far for the guy jumping though a gate, undock ranges need to reflect The guy jumping though the gate is aware that the hosties could insta-jump(just like you said instadock) though the gate themselves if they see something they dont like. But of course, if they jump through a gate, its not exactly risk free, now is it? The mark at the station knows that he and his buddies can instadock themselves, so since you are against instadocking, it may be a good idea to remove this facility by increasing docking ranges! So the reason why you think station should allow 100% risk free undocking is not valid in my opinion. Wow this is all bogus beyond belief. Do you even play this game? I don't mean to flame here but this is so far off, i just fell out of my chair. Jumping a gate and undocking are nothing alike. I don't think the bug is bad thing, if it was a proposed change but lets get back to the facts. 1. When you undock, you know whats in local but no idea whats on grid, are invulnerable till you move or up to 30 seconds, generally can't align and warp due to collision with station, have other ships coming out behind you bumping you, and now have no chance to redock. Only recourse is to undock first in a shuttle and see what happens. Repeat Ad nauseum. 2. When you blind jump, you are cloaked, the grid has loaded and have 2 options. Once you have seen the ships on the gate, you can race back to the gate, or race either out of scram or bubble and or cloak, or any combination of these things. Where in number 1, can you do anything like number 2? its mind bogglingly easy to gank someone after they been ****ed out of a station, you know their location, direction speed, and exit route, ship type. The aggressor is in complete command. When someone jumps, you have no idea within a 24km radius where the ship will appear, what the ship is (unless you scouted in the previous system), and have to deal with everything lined out in number 2. How is 1 equal to 2?
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:02:00 - [106] There should be an external view of the station but at least they are working toward the problem of the station huggers. Even though it's unintentional --
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:09:00 - [107] Why has no-one posted the pirate outside the station, seen from inside the docking bay, picture yet? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:38:00 - [108] BEST CHANGE EVER! no more station hugging wartargets yarrrrr!!!
Foxfire Inferno	Posted - 2007.12.07 17:53:00 - [109] I say CCP ignore the people that are only thinking about themselves and how much they can exploit this bug and restore the balance to the game.
Andargor theWise Collateral Damage Unlimited Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:05:00 - [110] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 06/12/2007 13:57:06 Originally by: CCP Greyscale Actually, it's the opposite - all undock points were checked and revised to make sure they matched up with the new models. In a few cases it sounds like this has placed the undock point outside the outer limit of the station. Please bug report any specific stations with these issues and we'll take another look at them Any chance of keeping undock range not being docking range on all stations? As I have said before, it is like jumping though a gate and being able to jump back 100% risk free if it is a camp. I think, and virtually everyone in this thread agrees, that undocking should not be invurnerably mode. Yes, please eject ships outside of dock range, but do allow peeking outside the station. The current station tactics are very boring, and contribute to what is wrong with the game. - Stop the Feature Glut: Take the API to the Next Level
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:32:00 - [111] If you deny people redocking, you screw the game up for all people, who are somewhere on their own outnumbered, like docked in low sec. At least I wouldn't risk to undock, if there was a high risk to lose my ship by getting ganked after undocking. This would screw also capital pilots. I mean I wouldn't want to request fleet support everytime I undock in low sec to jump somewhere. I'd rather not do anything. Actually I've always avoided the crappy thukker stations, if possible, because of that ****ty undock point that ejects you 2km+ from the station. Lost already a ship due to undocking into a pirate blob at such a station. Have also decided against basing the corp in such stations in high-sec, in case we get wardecced. Good to hear that we can bugreport them now. Guess this view is unpopular here, but I've gotten used to it.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.07 18:55:00 - [112] Originally by: Matrixcvd Originally by: Lord WarATron So I take it you are also a person who thinks that gates should allow 100% risk free ability to check whats on the other side? Sorry your argument makes no sense. Why? I will tell you Camping a gate and camping a station is exactly the same thing fundamentally, except the station makes it easier for the mark. The mark can see local, the guy jumping though gate cannot. Therefore to make things far for the guy jumping though a gate, undock ranges need to reflect The guy jumping though the gate is aware that the hosties could insta-jump(just like you said instadock) though the gate themselves if they see something they dont like. But of course, if they jump through a gate, its not exactly risk free, now is it? The mark at the station knows that he and his buddies can instadock themselves, so since you are against instadocking, it may be a good idea to remove this facility by increasing docking ranges! So the reason why you think station should allow 100% risk free undocking is not valid in my opinion. Wow this is all bogus beyond belief. Do you even play this game? I don't mean to flame here but this is so far off, i just fell out of my chair. Jumping a gate and undocking are nothing alike. I don't think the bug is bad thing, if it was a proposed change but lets get back to the facts. 1. When you undock, you know whats in local but no idea whats on grid, are invulnerable till you move or up to 30 seconds, generally can't align and warp due to collision with station, have other ships coming out behind you bumping you, and now have no chance to redock. Only recourse is to undock first in a shuttle and see what happens. Repeat Ad nauseum. 2. When you blind jump, you are cloaked, the grid has loaded and have 2 options. Once you have seen the ships on the gate, you can race back to the gate, or race either out of scram or bubble and or cloak, or any combination of these things. Where in number 1, can you do anything like number 2? its mind bogglingly easy to gank someone after they been ****ed out of a station, you know their location, direction speed, and exit route, ship type. The aggressor is in complete command. When someone jumps, you have no idea within a 24km radius where the ship will appear, what the ship is (unless you scouted in the previous system), and have to deal with everything lined out in number 2. How is 1 equal to 2? I am stating that camping a gate and camping a station is pretty much the same thing. I am speaking as the agressor and I am not speaking on the victim. Undocking from a station, in my opinion, should be exactly like jumping though a gate. You end up cloaked, invurnerable randomly 15km around the object, in exactly the same way that you do when jumping though a gate. Nobody looses out (apart from those who have a lame style of play), and people concearned about grid loading probebly get an advantage. I already mentioned this in the thread. That also has the side effect of solving all docking spam issues as well. -- Billion Isk Mission
Popsikle Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.12.07 22:48:00 - [113] lol, dont play station games then ;) ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime.
Nebuchadnezzar I Art of War	Posted - 2007.12.08 02:43:00 - [114] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 06/12/2007 16:55:44 Originally by: Ulstan Quote: Any chance of keeping undock range not being docking range on all stations? As I have said before, it is like jumping though a gate and being able to jump back 100% risk free if it is a camp. I think, and virtually everyone in this thread agrees, that undocking should not be invurnerably mode. As long as the campers can insta dock if they see something appear they don't like, the undockers need to be able to insta dock if they see something they don't like. Otherwise you have a huge risk disparity. So I take it you are also a person who thinks that gates should allow 100% risk free ability to check whats on the other side? Sorry your argument makes no sense. Why? I will tell you Camping a gate and camping a station is exactly the same thing fundamentally, except the station makes it easier for the mark. The mark can see local, the guy jumping though gate cannot. Therefore to make things far for the guy jumping though a gate, undock ranges need to reflect The guy jumping though the gate is aware that the hosties could insta-jump(just like you said instadock) though the gate themselves if they see something they dont like. But of course, if they jump through a gate, its not exactly risk free, now is it? The mark at the station knows that he and his buddies can instadock themselves, so since you are against instadocking, it may be a good idea to remove this facility by increasing docking ranges! So the reason why you think station should allow 100% risk free undocking is not valid in my opinion. The fact of the matter is though, you get blackscreen/delay when undocking AND it makes no real sense whatsoever that you cant "see" whats outside, heck the stations even show windows lol. Gates are a different thing altogether as you're jumping through a wormhole.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.08 16:02:00 - [115] Originally by: Popsikle lol, dont play station games then ;) undocking in 0.0 to test out a mod and wanting to dock again soon after is not a station game ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.08 16:15:00 - [116] Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar I The fact of the matter is though, you get blackscreen/delay when undocking AND it makes no real sense whatsoever that you cant "see" whats outside, heck the stations even show windows lol. Someone who undocks with a empty/black screen is dead anyway unless they load up before their invul timer run out. Someone who jumps though a gate and gets a empty/black screen is dead anyway unless they load up before their invul timer runs out. So I dont see the problem, do you? You get a black screen/Delay when jumping though the gate. Sometimes you may never see yourself on the other side of the gate. I lost a core-x fitted pvp Abaddon vs goons doing this before, and I dont complain. Seriously, there is nothing wrong with having distace form station when you undock, unless you are someone who plays station jockey, the lame form of gameplay introduced by the cowardly that is invading eve. All we are saying is either increase the range and keep mechanics as is current, or change mechanics to be exactly the same as the mechanics of jumping though a gate. As for being able to look outside a station, that is another issue altogether and I dont have any problems with it. -- Billion Isk Mission
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.08 17:14:00 - [117] Originally by: Lord WarATron I am stating that camping a gate and camping a station is pretty much the same thing. I am speaking as the agressor and I am not speaking on the victim. Undocking from a station, in my opinion, should be exactly like jumping though a gate. You end up cloaked, invurnerable randomly 15km around the object, in exactly the same way that you do when jumping though a gate. Nobody looses out (apart from those who have a lame style of play), and people concearned about grid loading probebly get an advantage. I already mentioned this in the thread. That also has the side effect of solving all docking spam issues as well. I support and or endorse this, although, with stations as large as they are, there would have to be an undock cone of uncertainty for the aggressor to actually have an advangtage. Random 15 km rad around a station tahts 50 km wide means you could be put out on the like anywhere from 5 km to 75km, nice idea tho!
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.08 17:32:00 - [118] Originally by: Matrixcvd Originally by: Lord WarATron I am stating that camping a gate and camping a station is pretty much the same thing. I am speaking as the agressor and I am not speaking on the victim. Undocking from a station, in my opinion, should be exactly like jumping though a gate. You end up cloaked, invurnerable randomly 15km around the object, in exactly the same way that you do when jumping though a gate. Nobody looses out (apart from those who have a lame style of play), and people concearned about grid loading probebly get an advantage. I already mentioned this in the thread. That also has the side effect of solving all docking spam issues as well. I support and or endorse this, although, with stations as large as they are, there would have to be an undock cone of uncertainty for the aggressor to actually have an advangtage. Random 15 km rad around a station tahts 50 km wide means you could be put out on the like anywhere from 5 km to 75km, nice idea tho! A very good point, thanks for sharing that with me. Campers would surround the station insted of camping a undock point. It also means that defenders can have a sensible attempt at making a run for it, and those that escape can regroup to pick off the attackers weak points in their camp gurrilla warfare style. The defenders would not have to worry about their numbers too much, as they can make quick hit and runs to exploit gaps in the attackers methodology. In other words, it would actually make station camping fun and intresting. -- Billion Isk Mission
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.08 17:40:00 - [119] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Matrixcvd Originally by: Lord WarATron I am stating that camping a gate and camping a station is pretty much the same thing. I am speaking as the agressor and I am not speaking on the victim. Undocking from a station, in my opinion, should be exactly like jumping though a gate. You end up cloaked, invurnerable randomly 15km around the object, in exactly the same way that you do when jumping though a gate. Nobody looses out (apart from those who have a lame style of play), and people concearned about grid loading probebly get an advantage. I already mentioned this in the thread. That also has the side effect of solving all docking spam issues as well. now we are cookin with gas, this sounds like a positive change imo I support and or endorse this, although, with stations as large as they are, there would have to be an undock cone of uncertainty for the aggressor to actually have an advangtage. Random 15 km rad around a station tahts 50 km wide means you could be put out on the like anywhere from 5 km to 75km, nice idea tho! A very good point, thanks for sharing that with me. Campers would surround the station insted of camping a undock point. It also means that defenders can have a sensible attempt at making a run for it, and those that escape can regroup to pick off the attackers weak points in their camp gurrilla warfare style. The defenders would not have to worry about their numbers too much, as they can make quick hit and runs to exploit gaps in the attackers methodology. In other words, it would actually make station camping fun and intresting.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.13 21:58:00 - [120] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Volir Allow people to view the outside of the station while docked. You shouldn't need an alt account or scout just to see if you can undock. Stations are not meant to be war dec pinatas. Do you also think that you should allow people to see the other side of the gate without a alt or scout or corpmate? At least in station, you have local. The guy jumping though gate does not even have that. I always wondered why there wasn't a probe or drone you could send through to the other side of a gate or outside a station to see if ôbadö was waiting for you on the other side of the gate or undock. Basically that is what people are doing with alts right? Seems reasonable to just add a module and/or skill to the game giving everyone a chance to use it.

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