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Fade Dren
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Posted - 2007.12.09 03:53:00 -
[481]
 Originally by: Montague Zooma
Originally by: SiJira
having a computer
being an mmo player
if you have these two things but have no computer knowledge yourself and no friends with said computer knowledge then you fail not CCP
Congrats on finding a way to feel superior because you have a computer, know how to fix it and play MMOs.
Computers are no longer the sole province of geeks who know how to use a soldering iron and write machine code. Billions of dollars have been spent to turn the PC into a consumer appliance. Millions of non computer experts are now playing MMOs.
Welcome to the 21st century.
Listen if you are not going to bother to learn enough about something to admittedly so important in the 21st century, to fix a issue as simple as this one then in my estimation you lose all right to complain when you have to pay to get it fixed.
These are not gaming consoles computers are made to be complicated and highly modular/interactive. You actually have to be able to learn how to properly use/maintain them to get proper use out of them.
Hell I don't crab ass to my mechanic when my auto needs to be repaired, I pay him what he charges because I know that the only reason I take it to him is because i'm too damn lazy to learn auto repair.
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Commodore Andrews
Golden Goose Inc
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Posted - 2007.12.09 04:17:00 -
[482]
Edited by: Commodore Andrews on 09/12/2007 04:17:00
I sense many "employed" posters in this thread... If ya know what i mean
"Discussing moderation is a violation of the forum rules." <--- Ummmm I thought forums were BUILT for discussing?
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Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.09 06:16:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Fade Dren
Hell I don't crab ass to my mechanic when my auto needs to be repaired, I pay him what he charges because I know that the only reason I take it to him is because i'm too damn lazy to learn auto repair.
Would you complain if your mechanic broke your vehicle rather than fixing it?
When you pay for a repair, you expect a repair. When you pay for a game...you don't expect it to sabotage your computer.
It's bad enough that CCP's "improvements" often degrade game play...but keeping your computer from booting? There's no defending that. CCP screwed up. Don't blame the victims.
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Bodhisattvas
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.12.09 06:54:00 -
[484]
ccp brings a patch out that deletes an important boot file, that is rank and file negligence.
Most windows pc and apps these days are meant to be used by folk who need not be pc whizz kids, idiot proof you
might say. Hence most folk know little of the inner workings of an operating system. Same folk may only have
one pc at home, said pc is also used for simple home accounting accessing bank accounts etc.
In short its an intergral part of running a household in a lot of cases. They install a patch from a game company
and lo and behold their pc ceases to function!!! who are they supposed to go to ? can they check on eve forums to
see what went wrong ? no ccp just wrecked their operating system.
Why is it so beyond the imagination of some of the pillocks posting in this thread, that some people
rely on pc warranty or computer repair shops to fix problems, and hey guess what if say for instance your warranty
folk get a sniff of the fact that it was a game that caused the problem.....their gonna rips your nads off and coat em
in egg yolk covered in breadcrumbs and lightly fry them and sell em back to you for a awful lot of iskies!!!
The very fact that said pc user trundles into his local pc repair shop kinda has the shop rubbing hands in glee
they know fine well said user knows **** all and is ripe for plucking and likely to be charged an arm
and a leg for any repair. Just like anything else in life theres always someone gonna take advantage.
I'm sure ccp are doing their best to limit any problems encountered by this latest patch but for some people
staring a blank pc screens with no means to access web or friends in the know, they aint got any choice but to
cry for help to the nearest local pc repair shop or warranty.
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.09 07:01:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Fade Dren
Originally by: Montague Zooma
Originally by: SiJira
having a computer
being an mmo player
if you have these two things but have no computer knowledge yourself and no friends with said computer knowledge then you fail not CCP
Congrats on finding a way to feel superior because you have a computer, know how to fix it and play MMOs.
Computers are no longer the sole province of geeks who know how to use a soldering iron and write machine code. Billions of dollars have been spent to turn the PC into a consumer appliance. Millions of non computer experts are now playing MMOs.
Welcome to the 21st century.
Listen if you are not going to bother to learn enough about something to admittedly so important in the 21st century, to fix a issue as simple as this one then in my estimation you lose all right to complain when you have to pay to get it fixed.
These are not gaming consoles computers are made to be complicated and highly modular/interactive. You actually have to be able to learn how to properly use/maintain them to get proper use out of them.
Hell I don't crab ass to my mechanic when my auto needs to be repaired, I pay him what he charges because I know that the only reason I take it to him is because i'm too damn lazy to learn auto repair.
Of course you do, and if your car breaks because someone pours water in your gas tank, if you don't know how to fix it you lose all rights to complain, or demand that the person who put said water into your gas tank (like stupid shell stations) pay to have your car restored.
Cars are easily as complicated and arguably as important as computers. Same rules should apply, Libertarian Wonderboy.
-Karl
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Toryn Kain
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Posted - 2007.12.09 07:07:00 -
[486]
40$ minimum half-hour rate...
99$ for OS reinstall...
keep 15% as a commission employee
priceless <rubs hands in glee>
I should be thanking CCP :D
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.09 07:08:00 -
[487]
Originally by: Dianaballick
EULA - No Warranty.
tia, stfu
Wrong. EULA restrictions are technically illegal in the EU. Furthermore each new patch requires a new acceptance of the license agreement. Unfortunately, the patch is applied and the boot.ini deleted before the the new license agreement...
Which, drumroll genius, makes CCP still liable even were the EULA binding, which it really isn't.
-Karl
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Heten Oviri
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Posted - 2007.12.09 07:10:00 -
[488]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Of course you do, and if your car breaks because someone pours water in your gas tank, if you don't know how to fix it you lose all rights to complain, or demand that the person who put said water into your gas tank (like stupid shell stations) pay to have your car restored.
Cars are easily as complicated and arguably as important as computers. Same rules should apply, Libertarian Wonderboy.
-Karl
And if you don't you go to the mechanic and he tells you that you car is in a desperate condition and meanwhile screws you over for a couple thousand $$$ for repairs. Knowledge is power. If you know and if you can fix things yourself, more power to you. If you don't, well you start 17 pages threads about the issue and call up your buddies on the phone to tell them how expensive your car repair was.
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.09 07:23:00 -
[489]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 08/12/2007 23:24:04
Oh so you work for an MMO company? Good for you..Frankly I can't use that for much and I don't really care if it's true.
If you have contact with legal departments why are you posting here then to talk about it? If you have the answer, why not do something about it?
"This has to be the most moronic thing you've said so far... you know nothing about me."
Now I'll school you a bit. I actually know how to use my computer, this issue happened to one of my laptops and it was fixed in 15 minutes. The reason I'm posting here is that some people have gotten completely judgmental and have suggested that people who have had to pay out of pocket on CCP's screwup deserve it, and have no recourse for compensation because of the "EULA."
I'm sticking up for them when people like yourself spew nonsense. Furthermore the suggestion that "I should be doing something" if I really knew what I was talking about is a formal fallacy in logic.
It is more-or-less an Ad Hominem, you can look here http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
I guess this puts you back in the camp of people on the interweb with **** poor critical thinking skills.
Quote:
Saying "I'm telling you blah blah" is just about as useful as "There's no way anyone can convince me blah blah".
Are you feeling okay, or is that a feeble attempt at a Straw Man?
(cont)
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.09 07:43:00 -
[490]
Edited by: Karlemgne on 09/12/2007 07:46:19
Quote:
There is a BIG difference between a malicious dev planting a keylogger, and an accidental deletion of the boot.ini file..No information was stolen, abused or compromised - At best it's a mild annoyance, not a crime.
If water gets into the gas tanks at my local shell station because they haven't kept up proper maintenance, or if they've accidentally filled the "regular" tank with diesel and I pump it into my car--its not a crime. You best believe that shell would be responsible to repair any damage to my car. The same is true here for CCP.
Quote:
If I were you, I'd look to Microsoft for an answer as to why they'd let a core file like boot.ini be deleted so easily by a 3rd party program.
Who cares what microsoft does, buddy? You've just committed another formal logical fallacy http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-common-practice.html
Quote:
Lead paint is damaging to your children's health, loss of boot.ini isn't - I don't see the connection unless you harmed your children cause of it.
The connection is similar in the logic. You are saying essentially that:
You purchased EVE online and downloaded the patch therefore you are responsible for any damage caused by that patch
Your argument formally looks something like this:
If X then Y
X
Therefore Y
The logic structures of the two arguments are the same, and the conclusions should be the same.
If I bought toys covered with lead paint then when those toys harmed me/my kids then I am responsible for that harm.
Quote:
I'm not a "fanboi" in the least, but if it makes you feel better calling me that, by all means go ahead.
Blind illogical defense of a company qualifies you as a fanboi in my mind. It doesn't make me "feel better." Its just what you are. See my argument looks something like this:
X=A
If A then B
X therefore B
You blindly defend CCP
If you blindly defend CCP then you are a fanboi
You are a fanboi
Simple as.
Quote:
Pot calling the kettle black, nice going - You really are an idiot.
So I guess you are admitting then that you are name calling because you lack anything of substance to say.
I thought so. 
Quote:
Actually that's a very big stretch, but since you seem to keep going at it, I see no point trying to argue about it as I already explained why the comparison didn't work.
Yeah you had some weird fuzzy logic about how because playing eve means you have to download the patch, it is your fault when it eve breaks your PC. I guess I'm not getting how this is different: if I drive a car, then I have to go on the road with drunk drivers. Therefore its not the drunk drivers fault when they run into me and smash my car.
(cont)
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Digital Solaris
Spartan Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.09 08:00:00 -
[491]
Originally by: Karlemgne
You blindly defend CCP
If you blindly defend CCP then you are a fanboi
You are a fanboi
I am very humored by this, do you have something similar for people ******** enough not to keep backups perhaps? Asshats playing internet spaceships included.
Oh, and what about those that cry their lungs out for the sake of the 'whine'?
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Karlemgne
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.09 08:02:00 -
[492]
Quote:
No in that case, they'd have to make your car start again by fixing it..however, unlike a car which is a local object, your computer is remote from CCP.
Oh, okay I get it. If I drive to Texas and hit someones car, as long as I return to California I'm not liable to repair the damage did to that car in Texas. That is, seeing how their car would no longer be local to me.
Or if buy a turntable with faulty wiring from an online company, when the turntable catches my receiver on fire its not their fault since they aren't local.
And again, using your logic why would it not be okay for game companies to send key loggers to my computer and steal my stuff? Just because its a "crime?" It doesn't really make sense, buddy. If the key to your logic is either: CCP isn't liable because I chose to download and execute the software or if CCP isn't liable for damage done to my computer because it isn't "a local object" to them then it should be okay for them to send me a key logger.
In the key logger case I would have chosen to download and execute the patch. This should absolve CCP. Similarly, in the key logger case by computer wasn't a "local" object to CCP so they can't be held responsible. The best that you can say in this situation (using your logic) is that the person responsible for the key logger committed a "crime."
Quote:
Unlike EVE, once this has happened to 1 person's car (you), chances are they'll try not to make that mistake with the next guy, whereas the EVE patch is applied to a LOT of people all at the same time, and all they (CCP) can do once they discover it, is to minimize the damage (take patches off-line, provide fix solutions, setup phonelines specifically for support on the matter, send out mails, warn you ingame, apologise etc etc..all of which CCP has done).
Sure, thats part of their responsibility, but they are also (technically) responsible for the repair bills to peoples computers. If for example (this happened to my father-in-law btw) the power company accidentally runs a truck into a transformer which causes a power surge that knocks out computers, appliances, and the power they don't just get to wash their hands of the responsibility. They end up having to pay for repairs new appliances etc in all the homes that were affected by their screwup.
Quote:
Nobody is saying it wasn't CCP's fault, of course it was..and nobody is saying they didn't screw up, because they did. Nobody is blaming the customer, I don't know where you got that idea from.
Funny, given some of the stuff that you've argued in this thread, like CCP isn't responsible for the damage caused by their patch, I'd say you were saying exactly what I accused you of saying.
-Karl
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Joana Darklight
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Posted - 2007.12.09 08:11:00 -
[493]
Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Digital Solaris
Originally by: Karlemgne
You blindly defend CCP
If you blindly defend CCP then you are a fanboi
You are a fanboi
I am very humored by this, do you have something similar for people ******** enough not to keep backups perhaps? Asshats playing internet spaceships included.
Oh, and what about those that cry their lungs out for the sake of the 'whine'?
*sigh*
Again this logic is just dumb, as we've gone over and over in this thread. You can't hold people responsible for not knowing how to fix the boot.ini issue or having a back-up.
First of all, it doesn't matter. The files downloaded by CCP should never ever delete sensitive OS files. When they do CCP is responsible plain and simple.
Just as it doesn't matter if I know how to fix my car, if a mechanic installs the wrong part (even if it would have taken me 5 minutes to do myself had I known how to do it) and that part explodes my engine, its the mechanics fault not mine.
-Karl
yup
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.09 08:14:00 -
[494]
Was it actually CCP's fault? For all you know it could have been a really obscure piece of Windows code that when called tries to do something with boot.ini.
EVE History Wiki
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Joana Darklight
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Posted - 2007.12.09 08:17:00 -
[495]
Originally by: Reiisha
Was it actually CCP's fault? For all you know it could have been a really obscure piece of Windows code that when called tries to do something with boot.ini.
irrelivent, thats what there QA dept is for.
And they missed one of the biggest bugs in gaming history, I worked for EA for 2 years testing games and I saw some crazy ****, but this ranks up as the worst ive seen
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Thaneal Swiftbird
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Posted - 2007.12.09 09:28:00 -
[496]
Originally by: Reiisha
Was it actually CCP's fault? For all you know it could have been a really obscure piece of Windows code that when called tries to do something with boot.ini.
Yes it was without any doubt CCP¦s fault. And a very noobish one at that.
First they named files in their program directory EXACTLY like critical system files. A big NO NO in programming. Normally you learn that rather early on, like first semester. There was no need to call an eve file boot.ini in the first place.
Then they allowed a simple and stupid typo to get through QA. They tried to delete their own boot.ini (which should not have existed in the first place) with the installer and instead deleted the one windows uses to boot up.
Incompetence on its highest level. Besides that, the error in the installer was recognized by a player on SISI before patchday and reported on the forum. CCP managed to ignore that warning too.
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Digital Solaris
Spartan Industries
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Posted - 2007.12.09 11:14:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Karlemgne
*sigh*
Again this logic is just dumb, as we've gone over and over in this thread. You can't hold people responsible for not knowing how to fix the boot.ini issue or having a back-up.
First of all, it doesn't matter. The files downloaded by CCP should never ever delete sensitive OS files. When they do CCP is responsible plain and simple.
Just as it doesn't matter if I know how to fix my car, if a mechanic installs the wrong part (even if it would have taken me 5 minutes to do myself had I known how to do it) and that part explodes my engine, its the mechanics fault not mine.
Good point! I can't hold people responsible for being complete asshats or plain stupid. But lets swing the argument in a different direction then: If you have no intent of knowing anything, then you have no right to complain about it either.
I think that's fair logic as anything else would assume you can't wipe your ass clean on your own.
Of course CCP are responsible for it, I know it, you know it, and I am pretty sure that they know it too. But why do you and the rest have this need to keep pushing it? Because its easier to thrive on negative criticism?
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Neal Cassady
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.12.09 11:20:00 -
[498]
i would be content with a sincere public apology.
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Agent Li
Caldari
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2007.12.09 11:55:00 -
[499]
Originally by: Darwinia
CCP might be responsable for deleting BOOT.INI, but getting ripped off for a 30 sec fix for installing EVE on business computers is all them...
Don't be stupid, it costs you money.
I'm waiting to see how many people had to call tech support within the company they work for (after hosing their work laptop), and then get fired for installing a game on their work laptop... 
------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Toryn Kain
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Posted - 2007.12.09 18:58:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Darwinia
CCP might be responsable for deleting BOOT.INI, but getting ripped off for a 30 sec fix for installing EVE on business computers is all them...
Don't be stupid, it costs you money.
I'm waiting to see how many people had to call tech support within the company they work for (after hosing their work laptop), and then get fired for installing a game on their work laptop...
Then we'll have people coming here demanding that CCP also owes them jobs or permanent consistent income as well ;P
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Aquidus Nefron
Caldari
Department of Defence
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.10 00:57:00 -
[501]
/signed
I had to completly reformat my HD
My boot.ini didn't get deleted, but over written, causing it to crash as soon as it logged onto my desktop, over and over and over. I tried fixing it, only to have windows tell me that it was currupt. I do demand comp for wasting 12+ hours reinstalling EVERYTHING.
Thanks for wasting my weekend..........
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BhallSpawn
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Posted - 2007.12.10 04:46:00 -
[502]
I agree
some sort of compensation to at least say they care that they costed some people money for their screw up would be nice
That's what a responsible company would do anyway.
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