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Compensation for Boot.ini errors!!!

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Fenderson Shadow Company FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:48:00 - [91] i understand the desire to ask for compensation, but in the end you are asking for an entire company and all the customers of that company to pay the cost for one persons mistake. even if it was an incredibly stupid mistake, it would be overall harmful to the community for ccp to give out any kind of compensation for this. just for some perspective, i say this as i sit here reformatting the harddrive on my primary machine because my IT guy at work screwed things up even worse when i went to him to fix the initial "hal.dll" error. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?
Jolnas Arbiter	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:49:00 - [92] Edited by: Jolnas Arbiter on 06/12/2007 21:51:27 Edited by: Jolnas Arbiter on 06/12/2007 21:49:42 Originally by: Xaroth Brook Originally by: Jolnas Arbiter Edited by: Jolnas Arbiter on 06/12/2007 21:43:52 Originally by: Xaroth Brook The thing is, CCP isn't required to do ** all, it's all in the EULA, the thing you randomly clicked 'i accept' on during install.[/Quote] Guess what smartass just because you say something in a contract does not mean that it is the word of law in a lot of countries. As I said above... you can't hide stuff in the fine print (not that I'm suggesting that did happen) and you also can't claim no responsibility for something that you charge for. read the last bit... While people might not be able to sue them for an extortionate amount of money (or the Sales regulaters sue them) the worst thing that happen is it could be banned from sale if the company doesn't pay the fees. A call upon the example of Apples refund policy. If you got a broken Ipod you take it back to the store to be exchanged for a working one... Apple tells the store to keep 1% of sales for this purpose. However a lot more then 1% of Ipods don't work. Apple got in trouble for this in Australia. I expect CCP to get similar regardless of what their Eula says. I would assume that if they don't pay fines that our market regulater hands out something bad would happen like a ban from sale or an extra tax on it. Originally by:** Turin Originally by: Takahashi Clutch Edited by: Takahashi Clutch on 06/12/2007 21:02:31 Edited by: Takahashi Clutch on 06/12/2007 21:02:09 Originally by: SheriffFruitfly What a stupid effin post. The EULA says nothing about crippling the OS by deleting Microsoft - another company's - system files. actually it does, see bold D. Software Updates CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account. reading comprehension ftw BTW. Most EULA do NOT hold up in court. The software companies tend to make them overly broad, and encumbering. You fanbois sem to think that they can put anything in the EULA and that makes it okay. "CCP hereby has the write to update extract, and modify any system files. CCP declares the right to your first born, and dibs on your cute sister" "Hey sis? Come here a sec.... I need you to go to Iceland" +1!!!
El Sp1c	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:49:00 - [93] CCP doesnt need to give us crap. If you think this is such bull** and you need compensation LEAVE THE GAME. Stop giving CCP your money and stop asking for handouts. It **ed me off that I had to fix my computer but it wasn't fatal. And if you really want to blame someone blame M$ for letting 3rd party software delete system critical files. They are responsible for working. CCP has no responsibility to keep your PC running. Blame the stupid company you bought your computer from for hiring a dumb tech that tells you to use your restore CDs and lose all your work. Blame your choice of Techs for charging you $100 for a simple fix. Stop being douches
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:49:00 - [94] Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 21:49:41 Originally by: Xaroth Brook read the last bit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_Contracts_for_the_International_Sale_of_Goods Iceland was a signatory. CCP can't opt out just because their EULA says so. Not sure if the convention applies to EVE though as I cba reading it all someone else please oblige Personally I hope someone sues CCP as it'd be: a) Interesting b) Hilarious Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Kurmugeon	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:49:00 - [95] # NO WARRANTIES The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game. Ok I stand corrected on my last statement. But just because you put it in a EULA doesn't make it legal. Hell I can create a game and draft my own EULA stating you have to give me your first born upon playing but that doesn't make it legal.
Kurmugeon	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:52:00 - [96] Originally by: Turin Originally by: Takahashi Clutch Edited by: Takahashi Clutch on 06/12/2007 21:02:31 Edited by: Takahashi Clutch on 06/12/2007 21:02:09 Originally by: SheriffFruitfly What a stupid effin post. The EULA says nothing about crippling the OS by deleting Microsoft - another company's - system files. actually it does, see bold D. Software Updates CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account. reading comprehension ftw BTW. Most EULA do NOT hold up in court. The software companies tend to make them overly broad, and encumbering. You fanbois sem to think that they can put anything in the EULA and that makes it okay. "CCP hereby has the write to update extract, and modify any system files. CCP declares the right to your first born, and dibs on your cute sister" "Hey sis? Come here a sec.... I need you to go to Iceland" Actually what you posted does not give them access to windows system files that do not have any association with the game. But if you look at my post before this I do quote the one EULA remark that does cover them. But like you said, writing something down doesn't make it legal.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:52:00 - [97] Ohhh... man... this is how you repair Boot.ini http://pcsupport.about.com/od/fixtheproblem/ht/repairbootini.htm 10 Seconds on the internet and it is all fixed... damn.
Balaurah	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:53:00 - [98] Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 06/12/2007 21:32:41 Originally by: Modrak Vseth Do NONE of you people have any backups or restore points saved? If it's taking 4 or 5 hours for you to fix this then you were setting yourself up for a massive failure eventually anyway. How does either of those help if you can't boot your computer? I have three computers in my house. I've been developing software for over 15 years. I'm an ex-data recovery engineer (and most of my software development was data recovery tools). Fixing a deleted boot.ini is childs play...except that it turns out I don't have a Windows boot disc. If I had then Ffs I could've edited the NTFS bitmap file and undeleted boot.ini in half a minute. Quicker and easier than copying it. But I couldn't boot that machine to Windows. I eventually burnt a copy of Ubuntu and used that but for a lot of people that's way beyond their ability and/or far too scary. you could have just taken the boot.ini-less hdd out of one machine, and stuck it in another machine and replaced the file from there?
vextorious No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:54:00 - [99] Originally by: Fenderson i understand the desire to ask for compensation, but in the end you are asking for an entire company and all the customers of that company to pay the cost for one persons mistake. even if it was an incredibly stupid mistake, it would be overall harmful to the community for ccp to give out any kind of compensation for this. just for some perspective, i say this as i sit here reformatting the harddrive on my primary machine because my IT guy at work screwed things up even worse when i went to him to fix the initial "hal.dll" error. I wrestled with this as well because I do love Eve. I don't want to see it suffer. But at the same time, CCP needs to learn a lesson here. As stated earlier, this was not a surprise too many users. It was reported days ago. This tells me that management doesn't listen too some people in the company, particularly, the employees that man this board.
Xaroth Brook Minmatar BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:55:00 - [100] Originally by: Dr Paithos Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 21:49:41 Originally by: Xaroth Brook read the last bit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_Contracts_for_the_International_Sale_of_Goods Iceland was a signatory. CCP can't opt out just because their EULA says so. Not sure if the convention applies to EVE though as I cba reading it all someone else please oblige Personally I hope someone sues CCP as it'd be: a) Interesting b) Hilarious from that nice CISGW post: Quote: Article 6 The parties may exclude the application of this Convention or, subject to article 12, derogate from or vary the effect of any of its provisions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Look ma, my sig is too good to be highjacked by the mods

Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:57:00 - [101] Originally by: Xaroth Brook Originally by: Dr Paithos Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 21:49:41 Originally by: Xaroth Brook read the last bit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_Contracts_for_the_International_Sale_of_Goods Iceland was a signatory. CCP can't opt out just because their EULA says so. Not sure if the convention applies to EVE though as I cba reading it all someone else please oblige Personally I hope someone sues CCP as it'd be: a) Interesting b) Hilarious from that nice CISGW post: Quote: Article 6 The parties may exclude the application of this Convention or, subject to article 12, derogate from or vary the effect of any of its provisions. It also says: Quote: This Convention does not apply to sales: (a) of goods bought for personal, family or household use, unless the seller, at any time before or at the conclusion of the contract, neither knew nor ought to have known that the goods were bought for any such use; So I don't even know why the EULA mentions it at all oh well Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Karma Gallente Vortex Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:59:00 - [102] CCP made a booboo... but in their defense, they did test Trinity on SiSi for a reasonable amount of time before releasing it to Tranquility and this issue didn't seem to come up. poor programing? perhaps. poor naming-choice of a file? perhaps. embarrasing? definately. my boot.ini was gone, but with a bit of thinking, I fixed that in less than 20 seconds (windows keeps a backup in c:\windows\pss\). in my experience, windows acting up and not wanting to boot up, or missing files, or any number of other things is very common. If CCP didn't tell us it was installing the new EVE engine, I would have gone to bed tonight thinking this little hick-up was simply my computer acting up like it tends to do every so often. to me, it would simply be the daily goings-on with owning and using Windows on a PC. if you don't want things like this to happen, get a Mac... or an X-box 360, or a Playstation 3, or a Wii. it isn't up to you what computer you use? Stop trying to run EVE on your work-computer, you're just asking for trouble.
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:59:00 - [103] CCP>People that do not know what a boot disk is.
Elenath Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.06 21:59:00 - [104] Originally by: Xaroth Brook Originally by: Dr Paithos Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 21:49:41 Originally by: Xaroth Brook read the last bit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_Contracts_for_the_International_Sale_of_Goods Iceland was a signatory. CCP can't opt out just because their EULA says so. Not sure if the convention applies to EVE though as I cba reading it all someone else please oblige Personally I hope someone sues CCP as it'd be: a) Interesting b) Hilarious from that nice CISGW post: Quote: Article 6 The parties may exclude the application of this Convention or, subject to article 12, derogate from or vary the effect of any of its provisions. What you apparently too clueless to understand (all legalese aside) is that whether the EULA covers this issue isn't the point. The point is that any company willing to use an EULA to cover for horrible quality assurance, poor programming, and horrible customer service (as you are apparently arguing) is only showing their true colors to their customers. Once again, since you can't/won't read - the EULA is not a way out for stepping up to the plate and compensating customers out of a desire to run a quality company. If CCP use the EULA as a way to get out of compensation they'll likely lose quite a few customers. Rightly so.
Elenath Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:00:00 - [105] Originally by: Karma CCP made a booboo... but in their defense, they did test Trinity on SiSi for a reasonable amount of time before releasing it to Tranquility and this issue didn't seem to come up. poor programing? perhaps. poor naming-choice of a file? perhaps. embarrasing? definately. my boot.ini was gone, but with a bit of thinking, I fixed that in less than 20 seconds (windows keeps a backup in c:\windows\pss\). in my experience, windows acting up and not wanting to boot up, or missing files, or any number of other things is very common. If CCP didn't tell us it was installing the new EVE engine, I would have gone to bed tonight thinking this little hick-up was simply my computer acting up like it tends to do every so often. to me, it would simply be the daily goings-on with owning and using Windows on a PC. if you don't want things like this to happen, get a Mac... or an X-box 360, or a Playstation 3, or a Wii. it isn't up to you what computer you use? Stop trying to run EVE on your work-computer, you're just asking for trouble. Not true. It was shown today that this boot.ini bug existed and was reported as early as two days before the patch.
Torco Infinite Style Incorporated	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:00:00 - [106] Come on man, it is so easy to fix this small problem. just follow the instructions.
Elenath Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:02:00 - [107] Originally by: Torco Come on man, it is so easy to fix this small problem. just follow the instructions. Excellent business model. I'm sure you'll be a huge success!
Quadinaros	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:02:00 - [108] Originally by: Takahashi Clutch Edited by: Takahashi Clutch on 06/12/2007 20:48:53 Some of you need to read the Eve EULA more closely. Quote: D. Software Updates CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account. No one put a gun to your head and made you sign up to play eve. I don't know why people are complaining so much. There are worse things that can happen to your computer. Nowhere in the EULA you quoted does it state that CCP has a right to trash files that are not part of the game. No one puts a gun to my head to make me go into a Starbucks (although it does take almost that much coercion) but if I go into a Starbucks and the Barista steals my shoes, Starbucks is responsible.
Lilspy	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:03:00 - [109] Originally by: Elenath Originally by: Torco Come on man, it is so easy to fix this small problem. just follow the instructions. Excellent business model. I'm sure you'll be a huge success! They'll name a drone region after you... will that shut you up?
Air Scare Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:03:00 - [110] I havent read through this particular thread, but if they do in fact go through with some form of reimbursement i hope they are careful about it and give it to people who that patch actually affected. I get the feeling that most of the naysayers last night and right now, didnt get their stuff affected, but they just want "free stuff" from CCP.

Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:03:00 - [111] Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 22:03:37 Originally by: Quadinaros Nowhere in the EULA you quoted does it state that CCP has a right to trash files that are not part of the game. No one puts a gun to my head to make me go into a Starbucks (although it does take almost that much coercion) but if I go into a Starbucks and the Barista steals my shoes, Starbucks is responsible. I'm not sure that's true, isn't it just theft on her part? I dont see why Starbucks is liable at all. Oh and you should have carried some backup shoes and not used your important shoes to do unimportant things like go to Starbucks BLAMMO Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Siresa Talesi	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:04:00 - [112] Originally by: vextorious Originally by: Fenderson i understand the desire to ask for compensation, but in the end you are asking for an entire company and all the customers of that company to pay the cost for one persons mistake. even if it was an incredibly stupid mistake, it would be overall harmful to the community for ccp to give out any kind of compensation for this. just for some perspective, i say this as i sit here reformatting the harddrive on my primary machine because my IT guy at work screwed things up even worse when i went to him to fix the initial "hal.dll" error. I wrestled with this as well because I do love Eve. I don't want to see it suffer. But at the same time, CCP needs to learn a lesson here. As stated earlier, this was not a surprise too many users. It was reported days ago. This tells me that management doesn't listen too some people in the company, particularly, the employees that man this board. Agreed. The simple fact is that the actions of CCP have cost some of their customers money. This needs should be compensated in some way out of good faith, regardless of whether or not they can be held legally liable (which there's not much point in arguing since everyone and their dog seems to be a closet legal expert who knows exactly what is and isn't possible in the realm of law, meanwhile contradicting each other with equal levels of knowledge, or lack thereof).
Harason Grant	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:04:00 - [113] You may wonder whether these licenses are legal. Most of them do hold up in court as long as they are reasonably clear, according to Parry Aftab, an attorney specializing in Internet privacy and security law (www.aftab.com). "The courts have said that if you click on something saying 'I agree' then it's legal consent." There are exceptions however. "If it's not legally clear enough, you haven't given consent to anything because there is no meeting of the minds. It goes back to basis of contract law from 500 years ago. You have to both agree on what you are agreeing on." In other words, if the agreement is incomprehensible, it may be unenforceable, according to Afta
Lucas Avignon Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:04:00 - [114] Some of you guys amaze me. It's no big deal, a little error on the installation and you cry for compenstation. Get real ffs, be happy your hard drive or hardware didn't malfunciton and you lost all your data, this would have been far worse and the most compenstation you could have gotten is a replacement if it was still in warranty. You are responsible for your pc, not microsoft or CCP, either stop using a pc, pay someone to fix it or grow a brain. You guys are pathetic little men and need to grow up and smell the roses.
Elenath Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:05:00 - [115] Originally by: Lilspy Originally by: Elenath Originally by: Torco Come on man, it is so easy to fix this small problem. just follow the instructions. Excellent business model. I'm sure you'll be a huge success! They'll name a drone region after you... will that shut you up? Nope. PS. If you don't like the thread don't read it. Even better, if you don't like the thread then install the patch and reboot your machine. Then you really won't have to read it.
Jolnas Arbiter	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:05:00 - [116] Originally by: Air Scare I havent read through this particular thread, but if they do in fact go through with some form of reimbursement i hope they are careful about it and give it to people who that patch actually affected. I get the feeling that most of the naysayers last night and right now, didnt get their stuff affected, but they just want "free stuff" from CCP. Well I did get affected and it wasn't much of a problem... but it could have been had I not had a windows install disc... and a lot of people don't. So I'll just act like I don't ;)
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [117] Originally by: Harason Grant You may wonder whether these licenses are legal. Most of them do hold up in court as long as they are reasonably clear, according to Parry Aftab, an attorney specializing in Internet privacy and security law (www.aftab.com). "The courts have said that if you click on something saying 'I agree' then it's legal consent." There are exceptions however. "If it's not legally clear enough, you haven't given consent to anything because there is no meeting of the minds. It goes back to basis of contract law from 500 years ago. You have to both agree on what you are agreeing on." In other words, if the agreement is incomprehensible, it may be unenforceable, according to Afta What I'm not sure about is if you can sign away your statutory rights in a EULA just because the company is based in another country... that's UK law though... Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Fenderson Shadow Company FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [118] Originally by: vextorious Originally by: Fenderson i understand the desire to ask for compensation, but in the end you are asking for an entire company and all the customers of that company to pay the cost for one persons mistake. even if it was an incredibly stupid mistake, it would be overall harmful to the community for ccp to give out any kind of compensation for this. just for some perspective, i say this as i sit here reformatting the harddrive on my primary machine because my IT guy at work screwed things up even worse when i went to him to fix the initial "hal.dll" error. I wrestled with this as well because I do love Eve. I don't want to see it suffer. But at the same time, CCP needs to learn a lesson here. As stated earlier, this was not a surprise too many users. It was reported days ago. This tells me that management doesn't listen too some people in the company, particularly, the employees that man this board. CCP will suffer for this no matter what. you dont have to go out of your way to make that happen. any time a company has a major screwup like this, they lose customers and lose reputation which decreases future customers. forcing them to pay out aditional compensation would only make it hurt them worse, and most likely would not increase their motivation to fix things. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?
Elenath Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [119] Originally by: Lucas Avignon Some of you guys amaze me. It's no big deal, a little error on the installation and you cry for compenstation. Get real ffs, be happy your hard drive or hardware didn't malfunciton and you lost all your data, this would have been far worse and the most compenstation you could have gotten is a replacement if it was still in warranty. You are responsible for your pc, not microsoft or CCP, either stop using a pc, pay someone to fix it or grow a brain. You guys are pathetic little men and need to grow up and smell the roses. I smell fanboi.
Xaroth Brook Minmatar BIG Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.12.06 22:06:00 - [120] Originally by: Elenath Originally by: Xaroth Brook Originally by: Dr Paithos Edited by: Dr Paithos on 06/12/2007 21:49:41 Originally by: Xaroth Brook read the last bit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_Contracts_for_the_International_Sale_of_Goods Iceland was a signatory. CCP can't opt out just because their EULA says so. Not sure if the convention applies to EVE though as I cba reading it all someone else please oblige Personally I hope someone sues CCP as it'd be: a) Interesting b) Hilarious from that nice CISGW post: Quote: Article 6 The parties may exclude the application of this Convention or, subject to article 12, derogate from or vary the effect of any of its provisions. What you apparently too clueless to understand (all legalese aside) is that whether the EULA covers this issue isn't the point. The point is that any company willing to use an EULA to cover for horrible quality assurance, poor programming, and horrible customer service (as you are apparently arguing) is only showing their true colors to their customers. Once again, since you can't/won't read - the EULA is not a way out for stepping up to the plate and compensating customers out of a desire to run a quality company. If CCP use the EULA as a way to get out of compensation they'll likely lose quite a few customers. Rightly so. and that's why there were around 3000 more people online tonight than an average thursday evening? people don't care about the EULA, read the link i put up before, be it for a good laugh as well. However, i do agree that hiding behind the EULA isn't the thing to be done to avoid compensation... but seriously, for something as severe as this CCP has acted fast and with reliable sollutions (given that the first people were online at 2200, and were probably done downloading/installing at around 2300.. not more than 5 hours later ccp tracked down and identified the cause and acted to prevent it..) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Look ma, my sig is too good to be highjacked by the mods



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