EVE Search - Projectile Weapon Bug

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Projectile Weapon Bug - Needs fix asap

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.09 08:58:00 - [1] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 09/12/2007 08:59:31 It appears that despite Minmatar ships havving pretyt much the same cap as Amarr ships, that minmatar ships do not use Cap to fire guns! This is extreamly overpowered and put this race at a Massive Advantage. I strongly reccomend that this be brought in line with all other turret races by requireing Cap to fire, or that Mimmatar have less cap so as not to imbalace other Races that use cap to fire Guns (such as Amarr, Gallente and Caldari Turret Boats). Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
THEGREAT LOBO Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.12.09 08:59:00 - [2] no.
Lazarann Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:02:00 - [3] Edited by: Lazarann on 09/12/2007 09:02:09 Or...not? Hopefully you're just joking. Otherwise....see above please.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:03:00 - [4] Sorry - Minmatar need to be balanced to be competitive with other gun races. Either Reduce minmatar CAP Or Make their guns use Cap. Anything else is overpowered. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:11:00 - [5] probably you miss the point that the dmg from proj is the lowest in game (ok smarties do less dmg :P) also comparing to pulses they have way lower range and consider that pulse fight always in its optimal while proj fight in faloff (so dmg goes down) personally i think that a bit more tracking will be nice for ACs, but thats my taste and generally i don't complain much about AC i wonder what you'll say when you will see dps from missiles that hit harder than proj, have no transv problems, can fully chose dmg and wonder... they don't use cap too, at short distances even the delay penality is not that bad... and about arty... is just crap, that will need a big boost (in range or damage) to be on par with other turrets... Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Ath Amon probably you miss the point that the dmg from proj is the lowest in game (ok smarties do less dmg :P) also comparing to pulses they have way lower range and consider that pulse fight always in its optimal while proj fight in faloff (so dmg goes down) personally i think that a bit more tracking will be nice for ACs, but thats my taste and generally i don't complain much about AC i wonder what you'll say when you will see dps from missiles that hit harder than proj, have no transv problems, can fully chose dmg and wonder... they don't use cap too, at short distances even the delay penality is not that bad... and about arty... is just crap, that will need a big boost (in range or damage) to be on par with other turrets... Sorry - Minmatar guns do more REAL damage after resists than Cap using guns on a , say, Amarr ship does. Nerf Minmatar Cap or Get their guns to use cap to be balanced as Minmatar are the only race to be able to have no issues firing turrets while neuted or running a tank Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Lazarann Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:15:00 - [7] My passive tanked Nighthawk uses cap to run....one hardener, has a badass tank, and does decent damage...do I need to be nerfed? Answer is no if you were wondering. Neither do Minmatar, and neither does the Rokh like you said in your other thread.
NoNah	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Ath Amon probably you miss the point that the dmg from proj is the lowest in game (ok smarties do less dmg :P) also comparing to pulses they have way lower range and consider that pulse fight always in its optimal while proj fight in faloff (so dmg goes down) personally i think that a bit more tracking will be nice for ACs, but thats my taste and generally i don't complain much about AC i wonder what you'll say when you will see dps from missiles that hit harder than proj, have no transv problems, can fully chose dmg and wonder... they don't use cap too, at short distances even the delay penality is not that bad... and about arty... is just crap, that will need a big boost (in range or damage) to be on par with other turrets... That is small and medium arties. A 1400mm Tempest makes me drool anyday. ;) And I'd pay little to no attention to OP. Can't decide wether he's just new or an alt, either way not here for a serious discussion or to contribute at all. Postcount: 777288
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Lazarann My passive tanked Nighthawk uses cap to run....one hardener, has a badass tank, and does decent damage...do I need to be nerfed? Answer is no if you were wondering. Neither do Minmatar, and neither does the Rokh like you said in your other thread. Nighthawk is not Minmatar. Nor does it do instant damage like Turret Race. Nor is it a battleship. Now begon troll. Balance Minmatar by reducing its cap or making its guns use cap. This brings it in line with other races. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:18:00 - [10] Edited by: Ath Amon on 09/12/2007 09:23:20 that's not that true... proj are not like missiles (all same dmg all full dmg type) so it can be worth to switch them in battle proj have multiple dmg type and dmg vary in regard of range so against an omny tank ship is not worth to experiment, also you miss the point that t2 ammos have fixed dmg so, if let's say if you want to use barrage and stay out of webbers you are going to deal your fixed dmg as all other guns eheh 1400mm do big numbers but thats all, in the end dbs is what really matter as in long range we have big tanks and so and so dmg. arty vs rail is like (i go with memory) rail outdps, outrange, outtrack arties while proj have better alpha and use no cap but considering that cap doesn't mean much in long range (cept maybe for amarr ship) i don't think the 2 weapons systems are that balanced Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Ath Amon that's not that true... proj are not like missiles (all same dmg all full dmg type) so it can be worth to switch them in battle proj have multiple dmg type and dmg vary in regard of range so against an omny tank ship is not worth to experiment, also you miss the point that t2 ammos have fixed dmg so, if let's say if you want to use barrage and stay out of webbers you are going to deal your fixed dmg as all other guns None of this means anything, as Minmatar has TOO much Cap, which needs to be balanced by either reducing cap, or by requiring cap use on Guns. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Jonny JoJo None of this means anything, as Minmatar has TOO much Cap, which needs to be balanced by either reducing cap, or by requiring cap use on Guns. ok balance don't mean anyting... keep whining :P Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 09/12/2007 08:59:31 It appears that despite Minmatar ships havving pretyt much the same cap as Amarr ships, that minmatar ships do not use Cap to fire guns! This is extreamly overpowered and put this race at a Massive Advantage. I strongly reccomend that this be brought in line with all other turret races by requireing Cap to fire, or that Mimmatar have less cap so as not to imbalace other Races that use cap to fire Guns (such as Amarr, Gallente and Caldari Turret Boats). as i said in the other stupid clueless post you made.. stop posting and never come back
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Ath Amon Originally by: Jonny JoJo None of this means anything, as Minmatar has TOO much Cap, which needs to be balanced by either reducing cap, or by requiring cap use on Guns. ok balance don't mean anyting... keep whining :P minmatar FITTED ships do high alpha, Minmatar FITTED ships do more REAL dps than a Amarr for example, and a FITTED Minmaar ship needs no cap mods to function. Other races waste mutiple slots (including rig slots) to acheive the same effect. Minmatar have too much cap. This needs to be fixed to be in line with other races. Either nerf minmatar cap or have the guns use cap. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Ath Amon Originally by: Jonny JoJo None of this means anything, as Minmatar has TOO much Cap, which needs to be balanced by either reducing cap, or by requiring cap use on Guns. ok balance don't mean anyting... keep whining :P minmatar FITTED ships do high alpha, Minmatar FITTED ships do more REAL dps than a Amarr for example, and a FITTED Minmaar ship needs no cap mods to function. Other races waste mutiple slots (including rig slots) to acheive the same effect. Minmatar have too much cap. This needs to be fixed to be in line with other races. Either nerf minmatar cap or have the guns use cap. stop playing EFT online ... ok ? ---------------------------------- Seems that there's a new game that seems to be very popular whit whiners these days. Its called EFT Online. dont listen those people.. as they dont have a clue
Kei Nagase Minmatar Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:57:00 - [16] Heh. Jonny doesn't know his ships. Minmatar DPS is nearly the weakest out there. Thats what we pay for capless guns. And the range is utter crap. My AF had an optimal range of sub 500m... I can't even orbit at that range. AxOatAo
Dreadpilot Roberts Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.09 09:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Sorry - Minmatar need to be balanced to be competitive with other gun races. Either Reduce minmatar CAP Or Make their guns use Cap. Anything else is overpowered. heh another whining idiot ffs I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ?
Chavu Ganja Labs Pure.	Posted - 2007.12.09 10:00:00 - [18] Originally by: Jonny JoJo This needs to be fixed to be in line with other races. Either nerf minmatar cap or have the guns use cap. Prove it. My Hurricane would love 7 turrets (Brutix a tier 1 ship gets 7) and love 125m3 bandwidth (like the myrmidon used to get). Hell throw me a 5th midslot as well like the myrmidon gets. Also give me more locking range, sensor strength, shield hp, armor hp, as well as hull hp, because other ships get more than me and that MUST be changed.
VolcanicButtmonkey	Posted - 2007.12.09 10:41:00 - [19] You do realise Minmatar have less default cap than every other race(other than gallente on exception)....right ? If you try to pull the gallente guns need cap to fire card.... use the blasters do more dmg one while your at it please.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.12.09 10:43:00 - [20] I disagree. that's all that needs to be said. ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Darqion Zenix	Posted - 2007.12.09 11:04:00 - [21] is minmatar dmg really that bad ? i was just about to switch back to it but if its really that bad :P anyway... not everything has to be mirrored... its called diversity
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.12.09 11:28:00 - [22] Have you been hallucinating or something? Minmatar ships do have poor capacitors compared to other races Projectile weapons have poor tracking Projectile weapons have relatively low DPS Projectile weapons often must be used in falloff (reducing accuracy and thus DPS) Amarr ships actually do have very good capacitors to balance for their high cap-drain strategies, and sub-specialize into cap Xfers, neuts, and NOS. The Apoc even has a cap size bonus Abbadons can get very similar (and at close range, superior) alpha strikes to the Maelstrom
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.09 12:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Sorry - Minmatar guns do more REAL damage after resists than Cap using guns on a , say, Amarr ship does. Depends on ship and fit. Often, they don't. Plus, when they do, they do so at point-blank range, unlike Amarr which have a much longer optimal. Originally by: Jonny JoJo Nerf Minmatar Cap or Get their guns to use cap to be balanced as Minmatar are the only race to be able to have no issues firing turrets while neuted or running a tank Noob. All Missile ships (Caldari, Khanid) have no issues firing turrets while neuted or running a tank. Furthermore, like all ships in the game, they need to cap inject to run a decent tank - just like Gallente, for example. Originally by: Jonny JoJo None of this means anything, as Minmatar has TOO much Cap, which needs to be balanced by either reducing cap, or by requiring cap use on Guns. We pay for this by having relatively low damage and less cap then other ships. Furthermore, since on bigger ships we ALL need to cap inject to run a tank, not much of a real bonus, is it? Stop playing EFT online or looking at gun stats alone. The fact that some Amarr ships lack mids for, say, a cap injector together with tackle gear means that some Amarr ships have design faults. Which admittedly sucks, but requires redesigning some of the poorly-designed Amarr ships instead of nerfing the rest of the game including well-designed Amarr ships to be in line Rifters!
Niestrenna	Posted - 2007.12.09 13:03:00 - [24] I wish there was a mute button forum forum trolls :( Amarr have no ammo use, while we minmatar chew through an entire ammo hold in a couple of fights, this is a huge imbalance and I suggest that we replace all guns with a single thermal dealing ammo, using no ammo or cap, and transfer all this to countertrike just for fun. How does this sound?
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.09 13:05:00 - [25] troll post. go away. --- planetary interaction idea!
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar Uraniumcore	Posted - 2007.12.09 15:00:00 - [26] Lol that's hilarious.. don't forget to complain about caldari and their cheating ability to be good at capless missiles.
Thorek Ironbrow Ironbrow Industries Co. Empire Research	Posted - 2007.12.09 15:36:00 - [27] I don't know about other people, but I think JoJos threads are starting to ** me off. _____________________________ Thorek Ironbrow of Ironbrow Industries Co. Part of the Empire Research Alliance Look us up in Nomaa, Itamo, or Sobaseki** to jo
Dober	Posted - 2007.12.09 15:41:00 - [28] ALERT
Requiescat Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.12.09 21:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Jonny JoJo blah blah blah 2/10, lacked finesse, fairly obvious from the first line Victory - Honor = Loss
EvilSpork Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.12.09 22:57:00 - [30] im sorry your ideas are awful and you clearly dont pvp. minmatar is the most balanced race right now. there is currently NOTHING wrong with minmatar. on a related note: lets nerf amarr because they get a bonus to cap use on their guns. THATS NOT FAIR!
Sharkk	Posted - 2007.12.09 23:25:00 - [31] Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow I don't know about other people, but I think JoJos threads are starting to **** me off. This Have to admire his persistance tho
The Internets	Posted - 2007.12.10 00:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Ath Amon probably you miss the point that the dmg from proj is the lowest in game (ok smarties do less dmg :P) also comparing to pulses they have way lower range and consider that pulse fight always in its optimal while proj fight in faloff (so dmg goes down) personally i think that a bit more tracking will be nice for ACs, but thats my taste and generally i don't complain much about AC i wonder what you'll say when you will see dps from missiles that hit harder than proj, have no transv problems, can fully chose dmg and wonder... they don't use cap too, at short distances even the delay penality is not that bad... and about arty... is just crap, that will need a big boost (in range or damage) to be on par with other turrets... Sorry - Minmatar guns do more REAL damage after resists than Cap using guns on a , say, Amarr ship does. Nerf Minmatar Cap or Get their guns to use cap to be balanced as Minmatar are the only race to be able to have no issues firing turrets while neuted or running a tank This may be true at a distance of 1km. However, Minmatar ACs operate far into fall-off range so the damage that is almost on par with lasers is actually only 60-50% of what you see in EFT/Quickfit/etc. Additionally, Minmatar ships have the worst tanks on average and use the cap advantage from capless guns to help out in that area (if they aren't nano/ewar tanking).
Twin blade Minmatar The Triangle Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.12.10 00:41:00 - [33] I hope he never take's a look at our carrier he would go nut's. This guy has to be an alt i am sure not even the most stupid of new player's would belive what he is typing given how every one say's and can prove him worng. Death is great rember where all dying to get there.
Bashiri Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.10 01:02:00 - [34] OP made me laugh so hard
Iria Ahrens Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.10 01:14:00 - [35] Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 10/12/2007 01:16:22 Oh please. I'm amarr too and I don't feel any minmatar envy. I did try out their guns on my ship, but I found I prefered my laser bonuses to damage gave me faster encounters. And what the heck is wrong with you, are your skills lacking? In every ship I've flown I can fire all my guns full throttle and my cap goes UP. It's only when I kick in my Armor repairer that it starts going down. So I don't really feel our guns are to blame for a weak build. Try to maximize your armor repairer efficiency with good resiists and maybe some mods to increase your armor repairer amount and cap recharge. Swap crystals during battles. I've found that while radio is great, standard is pretty much king of long encounters. I only switch to multifrequency if necessary. If I have 3 mid slots, I use web, tracking disrupter, and cap recharger. I generally only need to run if I'm suffering multiple waves of baddies when I run missions. For example, I run out of cap once and have to flee when I do Blockade. We are kings of mid-range. That has drawbacks, but minmatar are long range and short range. But we are kings of turret destabilizers. Since we have ships with bonuses, use them. Learn to get good destabilizing minnie turrets. I don't care if they aren't using cap, if they can't hit me but I can hit them, it's all gravy. Work at getting the minnie out of his optimal range and into yours. For mission running, again, work on the skills.
Iria Ahrens Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.10 01:18:00 - [36] Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 10/12/2007 01:18:43 somehow I meant to modify my previous post, but I quoted it instead. Delete or ignore this post please.
Bad Dreamer	Posted - 2007.12.10 01:26:00 - [37] Anyone else remember when medium and larger guns cost one cap to fire, pretty much made any autocannon worthless because of the insane amount of cap drain due to our guns having high rate of fire. I'm glad as hell those days are behind us.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.10 01:44:00 - [38] the thread escaped reality in line 1: "Minmatar ships havving pretyt much the same cap as Amarr ships" plain wrong: amount/recharge isn't everything especially with the new nos mechanics, amount of cap plays quite a role. think cap boosters while you're at it. once you wrapped your head around that, try neutralizers. - putting the gist back into logistics
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2007.12.10 01:49:00 - [39] Oh i hope you get forum banned. Thats really getting annoying.
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.10 02:45:00 - [40] Minmatar ships have less cap than any of the other races. -_- Our guns might not use cap, but a gazillion reasons have been listed that balance that. let me make a summary: -Lowest dps -Lowest optimal -Guns are ALMOST always in Falloff, thus reducing damage even further further -Highest dps ammo is -60% with LESS base damage then Antimatter, even thought antimatter is only -50% range. -Ac's have slightly worse tracking than blasters. So Blasters have much higher dps, better tracking, better optimal range. Minmatar don't use capac..oh wait, no. Our ships are already balanced to compensate for that, which leads me to my next point: -Ships have less base capacitor. The difference between other races grows exponentially due to skills and is quite noticeable (I am Angel Cartel specc'ed, fly both Gallente and Minmatar and training up blasters atm. Difference in cap is use. With controlled burst V, I hardly notice when my blasters are on) -Artilleries take almost double the fitting requirements of railguns. What are the cons of projectiles, you ask? -High alpha -Doesn't use capac....No, wait. Didn't we already have that? Compensated by ships. -Can do all damage types, but EMP ammo actually does more Explosive and Kinetic damage than it does EM. Explosive is the main projectile damage type. Other advantage: You get to fly the Angel Cartel ships, which make up for our sub par weaponry by being gorgeous and extremely powerful ships. ----------------------
Scrutt5 Snuff inc	Posted - 2007.12.10 05:17:00 - [41] Hows this a bug ? Your obious attempt at getting page views worked by using such a misleading title to your thread. Please change it so others dont have to put up with your nonsense. Want a glass for all that whine ?
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2007.12.10 06:01:00 - [42] Quite a while ago, Minmatar Turrets used Capacitor, still a very low amount but they used. The Cap use of Turrets was intentionally reduced to zero by the Devs. So this is definatly not a Bug. Also as others pointed out. There a lot of differences between the the racial weapons and this is a good thing. The last thing I would want to see in EVE is, when all Turrets have the same statistics and only different graphic effects.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.12.10 09:11:00 - [43] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Quite a while ago, Minmatar Turrets used Capacitor, still a very low amount but they used. The Cap use of Turrets was intentionally reduced to zero by the Devs. So this is definatly not a Bug. Also as others pointed out. There a lot of differences between the the racial weapons and this is a good thing. The last thing I would want to see in EVE is, when all Turrets have the same statistics and only different graphic effects. that was Tuxford's change, he also loved Gallente and hated caldari btw... now other guys are in charge who love caldari and hate Gallente so they might re-consider that change.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.12.10 09:23:00 - [44] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Good evening, I'll be your troll for this evening... can I get you some whine to start? much better version, imo Save EveTV, please. Sign to ask CCP to fund EveTV!
Xzar Fyrarr	Posted - 2007.12.10 11:56:00 - [45] No As previously mentioned, if your ocmplaining about MIMMATAR not using any cap to fire there weapons, just look at caldari... And if your looking at MASSIVE ADVANTAGE, I think amarr getting lots of cap bonuses isn't fair either :[ Mimmatar use there cap for something else IE: SPEED, Tank, ect ect. "It appears that despite Minmatar ships havving pretyt much the same cap as Amarr ships, that minmatar ships do not use Cap to fire guns!" Just by looking at your corp your in, Imperial Academy, I would just assume you either A) No nothing about other races ships, yet. Or B) An alt just trying to get forum attention. Mimmatar is in line with other races, you just fail to see that.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.12.10 11:58:00 - [46] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 09/12/2007 08:59:31 It appears that despite Minmatar ships havving pretyt much the same cap as Amarr ships, that minmatar ships do not use Cap to fire guns! This is extreamly overpowered and put this race at a Massive Advantage. I strongly reccomend that this be brought in line with all other turret races by requireing Cap to fire, or that Mimmatar have less cap so as not to imbalace other Races that use cap to fire Guns (such as Amarr, Gallente and Caldari Turret Boats). I serously think this guy just has a whine generator that he selects a race for and it randomly generates him a whine. We know you're amarr. We know you think they're gimp. They're not nearly as gimp as you act like. complain less pretty please?
AntonioBanderas Empirius Enigmus Navy	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:01:00 - [47] no ******* way i'm reading through this. to op: you're either a troll or abysimally stupid. take your pick
Kyle Frost Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:16:00 - [48] Ah... why isn't this guy banned already ?! Stupidity is contageous you know...
Agif Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:22:00 - [49] omg a nerf happy muppet is trolling the forums again.... Stop asking for nerfs its ppl like you that ruin the mechanics of this game with your constant crying. STFU and lock this damn thread. -------------------
Bishop 5 Gallente The Flying Tigers STELLAR LEGION	Posted - 2007.12.10 12:43:00 - [50] Uncles Ben's Express Chinese Style Rice uses too much cap to microwave. Please nerf it. ------------- meh
Darqion Zenix	Posted - 2007.12.10 13:57:00 - [51] thats.. a ton of cons :P are you guys sure projectile do any dmg ? haha
Jessica Fyers	Posted - 2007.12.10 15:07:00 - [52] Hmm, didnt check all the posts, but i think the OP is quite a new player. A while back (until Cold War/Red Moon Rising iirc) projectile weapons DID use cap to fire. This was deemed broken either because 1) in case of ACs at least, the insane RoF would bleed a ship dry, and 2) its stated that projectiles are self propelled bullets, meaning they wont need any cap to be activated (unlike say, blasters: energy to convert slug into plasma, rails: energy to magneticaly propell the slug, lasers: pure energy shot).
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.12.10 15:20:00 - [53] best t1 frig best t1 cruiser best hac best recon best dictor best bc best CS good BSes good capitals Minmatar online
Biced	Posted - 2007.12.10 15:34:00 - [54] Is this a joke? I use ACs on my abaddon to run angel extravaganza (not cross training YET) the only thing i change in my setup from lasers is one cpr to one gyro t2. Do you count in your REAL pvp scenarios the fact that ppl fly t2 ships (in this case em does not suck)? and that med pulses pawn nano ships? and that 90% of the pvp setups are cap boosted?
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.10 15:37:00 - [55] best t1 frig - Rifter is good, yes. best t1 cruiser - Thorax? best hac - Deimos (anyone who says vagabond is better than deimos is an idiot) best recon - Was arazu, now falcon. best dictor - Yeah, got me there. Sabre is awesome. best bc - Eh. What? Hurricane is horrid. Myrmidon passive shield tanked and drake would take down a cane in seconds best CS - Eh, difficult one. Love the sleipnir, but Absolution, Astarte and nighthawk are all awesome. good BSes - Megathron? Raven? Both have higher dps than any minmatar bs. good capitals - Admittedly, nidhoggur is good now. \0/ Best t2 frig - Taranis All in all.... Gallente is still the leading race, even with the recent nerfs. Oh and before anyone flames me, I fly gallente as well as minmatar. Dual specc'ed. :) ----------------------
Biced	Posted - 2007.12.10 15:37:00 - [56] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Ath Amon probably you miss the point that the dmg from proj is the lowest in game (ok smarties do less dmg :P) also comparing to pulses they have way lower range and consider that pulse fight always in its optimal while proj fight in faloff (so dmg goes down) personally i think that a bit more tracking will be nice for ACs, but thats my taste and generally i don't complain much about AC i wonder what you'll say when you will see dps from missiles that hit harder than proj, have no transv problems, can fully chose dmg and wonder... they don't use cap too, at short distances even the delay penality is not that bad... and about arty... is just crap, that will need a big boost (in range or damage) to be on par with other turrets... Sorry - Minmatar guns do more REAL damage after resists than Cap using guns on a , say, Amarr ship does. Nerf Minmatar Cap or Get their guns to use cap to be balanced as Minmatar are the only race to be able to have no issues firing turrets while neuted or running a tank Forgot to quote.. btw love your sigs other than that weak op sorry.
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.12.10 16:09:00 - [57] Blatant troll. 1/10 for effort, would've been better if you hadn't let the world know what you were up to here. Quote: Cristobalus DeMora > so what do the forums say? Jaleean Atheria > smack smack smack flame smack flame smack smack flame alt post flame flame flame smack flame click
Pure Murder	Posted - 2007.12.10 16:55:00 - [58] nnnnnggyyyrrr***k arrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhh I'm sorry, I'm short on words to answer such stupidity.
Revan Crow Minmatar Freeworlds United Inc The Last Stand	Posted - 2007.12.10 18:18:00 - [59] Edited by: Revan Crow on 10/12/2007 18:18:56 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Sorry - Minmatar need to be balanced to be competitive with other gun races. Either Reduce minmatar CAP Or Make their guns use Cap. Anything else is overpowered. have you tried to hit with artillery outside optimal? have you looked at the tracking ? have you looked at matar rof ? and yes i have looked at all of these factors and flown all other races gunships EDIT: and while youre at it...check those missile boats too ^^
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.12.11 17:59:00 - [60] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 11/12/2007 18:00:38 Originally by: Victor Ivanov best t1 frig - Rifter is good, yes. best t1 cruiser - Thorax? best hac - Deimos (anyone who says vagabond is better than deimos is an idiot) best recon - Was arazu, now falcon. best dictor - Yeah, got me there. Sabre is awesome. best bc - Eh. What? Hurricane is horrid. Myrmidon passive shield tanked and drake would take down a cane in seconds best CS - Eh, difficult one. Love the sleipnir, but Absolution, Astarte and nighthawk are all awesome. good BSes - Megathron? Raven? Both have higher dps than any minmatar bs. good capitals - Admittedly, nidhoggur is good now. \0/ Best t2 frig - Taranis All in all.... Gallente is still the leading race, even with the recent nerfs. Oh and before anyone flames me, I fly gallente as well as minmatar. Dual specc'ed. :) Cruisers are quite well balanced imo, so I really can't argue here. Deimos is better than Vagabond? Please, explain your point of view. Vagabond can actually shoot at 20km, does not need to go into webrange, but if it does it has good dps. Vaga is also 3-4 times faster, guns do not use cap... 1v1 is a very one-sided win for vagabond. Vaga has faar more practical pvp applications than deimos, sure in some situations, the deimos is better, but overrall vaga is better. Huginn = solopwnmobile, absolutely needed for small gangs, the best anti-support ship... Falcon is awesome too in gangs, so I guess you have a point... I guess you can argue about drake being very good, but Hurricane is definately better than Harbringer&Myrmidon. Sleipnir is the only Field CS that can do something, that the BSes cannot do. Mega-Astaer, arma/aba-abso and raven-nighthawk <- BSes are 3 times cheaper, tank better, do more dps... Sleipnir can be setup as nanoship, maelstorm/tempest can't. Good BSes.... well good... Maelstorm is nice... Stiletto has 4 mids.
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.11 18:40:00 - [61] I think the problem is not that projectiles dont use cap but that amarr dont have a cap advantage with their ships which maybe they should. But I dont care, dont fly amarr anymore. ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.11 19:26:00 - [62] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 11/12/2007 18:00:38 Cruisers are quite well balanced imo, so I really can't argue here. Deimos is better than Vagabond? Please, explain your point of view. Vagabond can actually shoot at 20km, does not need to go into webrange, but if it does it has good dps. Vaga is also 3-4 times faster, guns do not use cap... 1v1 is a very one-sided win for vagabond. Vaga has faar more practical pvp applications than deimos, sure in some situations, the deimos is better, but overrall vaga is better. Huginn = solopwnmobile, absolutely needed for small gangs, the best anti-support ship... Falcon is awesome too in gangs, so I guess you have a point... I guess you can argue about drake being very good, but Hurricane is definately better than Harbringer&Myrmidon. Sleipnir is the only Field CS that can do something, that the BSes cannot do. Mega-Astaer, arma/aba-abso and raven-nighthawk <- BSes are 3 times cheaper, tank better, do more dps... Sleipnir can be setup as nanoship, maelstorm/tempest can't. Good BSes.... well good... Maelstorm is nice... Stiletto has 4 mids. With the same clone, my deimos can easily reach 5.5km/s outside of gang. Vagabond is 8 km/s. Admittedly, vaga is faster and more agile. Deimos with blasters and 2 magnetic field stabs (Still same setup as above) does around 650 dps with antimatter. Using void this goes up to like..700 dps. Vagabond is lucky to reach above 350, and I've got faction gyro's on mine. But we aren't done yet, noo. You say Vagabond can hit from 20km? Hrm, with HAC 5, this would indeed be true. Unfortunately, due to the way falloff works, you would do dps of a level that would make a frigate cry in shame. Of course, you'd also have to be completely still, because vaga's don't get tracking bonuses, resulting in extremely inaccurate shots. Also, we are ALWAYS in falloff. So my deimos has better dps, slightly similiar speed and better damage spread. (Kinetic+thermal+explosive drones compared to Kinetic+explosive of vaga, since barrage is a requirement) Now, don't get me wrong. I love my vaga. But if I would pit my deimos against my vaga, deimos would win. Unless of course you are an EFT warrior and have never flown nor fought vaga's and deimos's. -_- Now, next point. Huginn, solopwn mobile. Hrm, I presume that's a figure of speech, because I don't think a huginn would survive very long on its own. However, I love the ship regardless for its webbing capabilities. Not TOO fast, and the damage of a wet paper towel, but still a very nice ship. However, lachesis, rook and curse are all awesome ships, so I think we can agree that recons are quite well balanced. A nano sleipnir....... Nano....sleipnir. Alright, words fail me on this one. A nano sleipnir is going to be way too slow to even be defined as a nano-able ship. And why the hell would you want to anyway? Awesome shield tank, fit gank in the lows and it's a brilliant ship, just like all command ships. Again, I think command ships are very very balanced now that the eos is back to where it belonged. Which brings us to your final point: BS'ses. Well, let's compare a tempest to a mega, shall we? I admit that I don't have large hybrids V yet, so I can't use a t2 blaster mega, but a mate of mine has obliged. He has an estimated 1200 dps. With my tempest, with close to perfected skills, t2 guns, drones and 2 gyro's, I can hit 750-800. Maelstrom I'm not even going to waste my time on. Great sniping ship, I suppose, although the Tempy with a damage rig does the job much better at a lower price. Close range maelstrom fits? Don't make me laugh, the ship is useless. Ratting maybe, but we live in Catch, which is a bad place for shield tankers. Admittedly, with the torp changes, the Phoon has changed from the ugly lil brother to a beast of unadulterated power. Extremely skill intensive though. Stilleto is indeed the best inty for tackling. -_- ----------------------
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.12.11 20:40:00 - [63] Originally by: Victor Ivanov deimos and vaga stuff You do know that 1 optimal + 1 falloff = 50% of the dps? Thanks to 5 light drones, ship bonuses and barrage, you can do close to 300 dps at 15km-20km range You are calling me an EFT warrior? Have you ever actually ever flown your nanodeimos vs a vagabond? Your setup is roughly... 5 neutron(?) mwd, LSE(?), cap booster(?), web(?), warp disruptor 2-3 OD, 1-2 ?, 2 MFS t2 2 polycarbon Load RF EMP, hit mwd + wd t2 + approach, f1-f5, your deimos dies. Vaga has 2 LSE t2, your deimos has less shield + 0 EM resist on shield. You can't control transversal/tracking because 1) medium AC and medium blasters have almost the same tracking 2) vagabond is faster. You most likely can't apply drone dps due to the speeds involved... I have not fought vaga vs nanodeimoses, but based on my experience, this is what happens to nanoishtars. There is a reason why nanodeimoses aren't flown, they lack buffer and have to go into webrange. Your corp killboard doesn't show info about your nanodeimos either. Sorry, but you are the real EFT warrior here. Quote: Huginn Dual 180mm t2 x 3, HML t2 x 3 mwd, 2 LSE t2, 2 web, 1 wd 2 OD, 1 pds 2 polycarbon 3 med t2 drone, 2 light drone Very common, very effective - used by a lot of soloplayers. Works very similar to Vagabond, it speed is roughly 3.6km/s-4km, 2 webs, similar dps at 20km. Quote: Sleipnir ~3km/s is rather easy to get, without snakes/highend implants/faction stuff Quote: BSes Maelstorm + 3 gyro + 800mm t2 + 4 ogre t2 + hail does 1000+ dps as well, if dps is what you are interested in...
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.12 03:04:00 - [64] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld You do know that 1 optimal + 1 falloff = 50% of the dps? Thanks to 5 light drones, ship bonuses and barrage, you can do close to 300 dps at 15km-20km range. Actually, seeing as how it's total max dps is about 350, at that range your dps will be closer to 150. Which is similiar to frigate weaponry. Which vindicates my prior statement. Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld You are calling me an EFT warrior? Have you ever actually ever flown your nanodeimos vs a vagabond? Actually, I wasn't attempting to attack you. :) I merely implied that your arguments were formulated in such a manner that it seemed as if you were using EFT to make your point. Regarding the deimos: I stated that a deimos could attain speeds quite similiar to the vaga. Granted, pure nano would not be a feasible alternative due to its resists. I don't actually own EFT, so you'll have to tell me what the max speed is for a deimos with a cookie cutter tank, but it's still going to be relatively high for a cruiser class ship I'd wager. Reason for the lack of killmails on our kb is that while I do have gallente cruiser IV on TQ, I'm in the process of training it to V, but haven't quite completed it. I spend time on sisi flying both due to my already established desire to one day be fully gallente/minmatar cross trained. From that I made the conclusion that a deimos would beat a vaga. A deimos may be slower than a vagabond, but a vaga needs to turn of his mwd to be able to hit anything, so that opens the battlefield for the deimos to make use of his far superior DPS and tear the vaga a proverbial new one. Result: Deimos either wins, or vaga escapes. Vaga vs deimos should never result in a deimos loss. It's all good and great to say "Transversal is too high, so let's ignore dps" but it clearly shows how little you know of vaga's. :) Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld Huginn Dual 180mm t2 x 3, HML t2 x 3 mwd, 2 LSE t2, 2 web, 1 wd 2 OD, 1 pds 2 polycarbon 3 med t2 drone, 2 light drone I stand by my previous statement: Huginn is better suited for small gang warfare and fleet combat. Solo-combat should be handled by ships better suited to it. Just saying that it CAN do it is not an argument, since anything can technically do solo'ing. Quote: Sleipnir ~3km/s is rather easy to get, without snakes/highend implants/faction stuff My point was not that you can't make it go a speed above 1km/s. Hell, my plated phoon goes beyond 2km/s, and it has 4 plates on it. No, my point is that there is no discernible reason why you would nano a sleipnir if the alternative is so much more effective. Again, comes down to: You can basically do anything with any ship, but that does not mean it's a good idea. Sleipnir is a relatively slow (for minnie) gank monster. The dps that ship fires rivals that of most battleships. Quote: BSes Maelstorm + 3 gyro + 800mm t2 + 4 ogre t2 + hail does 1000+ dps as well, if dps is what you are interested in... I can't imagine attaining 1000 dps with that, but then again I'm not sure what skills you are using. Whichever, the ship isn't particularly useful for me. Being an ex pirate, I have an issue with active shield tanking t1 ships, due to the neccesity to use meds for resists instead of tackling. So the ship is wasted on me anyhow. 800's have horrid horrid tracking for only a marginal increase in damage. Better to use dual 650's, and for that I prefer the tempest. FAster, cheaper, and pretty much equally effective. So I fail to see your point about the maelstrom. I still think it's a useless ship. I don't like sniping, and for close combat I'll use my phoon or tempy. ----------------------
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.12.12 08:03:00 - [65] Originally by: Victor Ivanov You do know that 1 optimal + 1 falloff = 50% of the dps? Thanks to 5 light drones, ship bonuses and barrage, you can do close to 300 dps at 15km-20km range. Actually, seeing as how it's total max dps is about 350, at that range your dps will be closer to 150. Which is similiar to frigate weaponry. Which vindicates my prior statement. 1 falloff + 1 optimal for vaga is roughly 25km, so no 50% reduction 5 t2 hobgoblins is ~90-100 dps Quote: From that I made the conclusion that a deimos would beat a vaga. A deimos may be slower than a vagabond, but a vaga needs to turn of his mwd to be able to hit anything, so that opens the battlefield for the deimos to make use of his far superior DPS and tear the vaga a proverbial new one. Result: Deimos either wins, or vaga escapes. Vaga vs deimos should never result in a deimos loss. It's all good and great to say "Transversal is too high, so let's ignore dps" but it clearly shows how little you know of vaga's. :) What is this? When deimos and vaga have the same tracking... Dualpolycarbon + dual od will not have the buffer + dps + speed to match vaga. a standard 4slot tank setup flies around ~1.5km/s, that is too slow to catch a vaga, even with overheating. Vagabond won't hit deimos if you mwd + orbit at 15km, but if you actually use manual piloting, you will burst the mwd and keep the transversal low. You can do this by flying away from the opponent in a straight line, if he wants to web you, he needs to fly towards you(ef. 0 transversal) and you can just dictate range. Alternatively you can also try to get behind him, and force him to turn around and waste time/tank, while you are hitting him. Quote: Huginn Please, explain, why can it not be used for solo combat? High survivability, good dps at 20km range(for a recon/hac), good nanospeed, perfect webs? What is bad about it? Quote: Sleipnir Speed isn't only about speedtanking, it is also about dictacting range and escaping. MP Arma vs Absolution : Arma has better tank, dps and range... has better tracking/agility Nighthawk vs Raven : Raven has better tank, range and dps... has better missile sig/agility Astarte vs Mega : Mega has better tank, range and dps... has better tracking/agility Same applies to a standard tank-sleip, but... a sleipnir can actually be nanoed. No dps of a CS comes even close to a BS dps. Quote: BSes ... Max gank maelstrom dps isn't that far off from Mega. Plated gank-phoon... should do 1000 dps as well.
Sunn Szu	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:04:00 - [66] Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld No dps of a CS comes even close to a BS dps. you've never flown an astarte have you. without going into the limitations, it does a lot more raw dps than any of the other CS.
Elenath Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:05:00 - [67] This thread has got to be a joke. Right?
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:11:00 - [68] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Sorry - Minmatar need to be balanced to be competitive with other gun races. Either Reduce minmatar CAP Or Make their guns use Cap. Anything else is overpowered. ummm, they used cap to fire in earlier times, but not anymore, guess why? It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.12 09:16:00 - [69] So really, how do you calculate whats fair and whats not? For instance, ACs have no cap use, middile range, middle effective damage, great tracking, slim fitting requirements, damage type selectivity and amazing downsizing options. By comparison: Laser have good range, middile raw damage, lowest effective damage, lowest tracking, horrible fitting, horrendous cap use and horrible downsizing options Blasters have bad range, highest raw and effective damage, so-so tracking, horrible fitting (not as bad as lasers, but very close) bad cap use and decent downsizing options. So where exactly do ACs pay for their benefits? Why is it that they get to be much more resilient to capacitor warfare than the CAP race? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Minmatar Citizen 4521577	Posted - 2007.12.12 10:57:00 - [70] Originally by: shinsushi So where exactly do ACs pay for their benefits? Why is it that they get to be much more resilient to capacitor warfare than the CAP race? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You, sir, suck.
R0ger Wilco Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.12.12 11:07:00 - [71] Burn in hell stupid whiney troll****ot. The following link is to the OP's last 15 posts... all of them whinage. Quite Eve and take a long walk of a short pier.. WHAAAMBULACE
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.12 19:59:00 - [72] Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 4521577 Originally by: shinsushi So where exactly do ACs pay for their benefits? Why is it that they get to be much more resilient to capacitor warfare than the CAP race? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You, sir, suck. So I take it that means I am right? Thanks, I try. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.15 12:27:00 - [73] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Minmatar Citizen 4521577 Originally by: shinsushi So where exactly do ACs pay for their benefits? Why is it that they get to be much more resilient to capacitor warfare than the CAP race? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You, sir, suck. So I take it that means I am right? Thanks, I try. The irony was, insted of answering your question, he did a Ad Hominem insult on you as detailed in your sig Fix Minmatar to be balanced and no longer overpowered with Amarr! Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Lyu Ni Killson Corp Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.15 13:39:00 - [74] Lol, great going Jojo. Show the amarr whiners how to really whine for nerfs Anyone not seeing the sarcasm in his posts is kinda stupid. And judging by number of bitter posts in these topics... lol again

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.