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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.12 00:01:00 -
[841]
As it stands, Command Ships don't have the static hit points to make an appearance in the large scale PvP fights that are fairly common in null sec and increasingly so in low sec. That being said they are not the all that useless. They make great complements to small but especialy faster fleets, like HAC and Battlecrusier gangs. They are not going to be replaced for the large scale fights, for in much of what I have seen they are a rarity to say the least. Also note that the Command Ships are able to use more warfare links then the Flagships. But the Flagships get a fleet bonus right off the bat. So its a bit go give and take. Do you sacrifice mobility and the number of warfare links for the unique bonus and the heavy tank? It really depends on what you are going for in the fleet.
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Eurzadahn
Gallente
Tenichigo Kaigun
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Posted - 2009.12.12 00:20:00 -
[842]
Hrm. Okay. Interesting. Thank you for the clarification on that. I will read up more on your ideas. I know I want an Athena. 
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Eurzadahn
Sovereign & Founder,
Tenichigo Kaigun
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Valharu
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Posted - 2009.12.12 02:28:00 -
[843]
I have always thought that for the Min Frontline Command Ships should have had a 10% Per level for falloff to support up front but to the rear.
And the Theater Command ship should have had a 10% Opatimal per Level because they should be supporting from Long Range.
I just don't think combat wise, CC Ships have been thought out as well as they should have been to fill out more of a support role or combat support role.
All Gang effects should be in the Role Bonuses.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.12 04:38:00 -
[844]
Well I'm curious as to which bonuses you would replace to get the respective range bonuses.
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Maeve Kell
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Posted - 2009.12.12 06:43:00 -
[845]
dont know.. i'd prefer them to have no damage bonuses but hell of a tank (resi bonus and repair amount bonus?).. cause everyone would primary them.. (5% to hitpoints per level, so you kill 25% of the hitpoints of the fleet by killing one ship with flagship 5)
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Valharu
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Posted - 2009.12.12 16:12:00 -
[846]
First let me say, after reading what I wrote, when I said I don't think CC Ships have been thought out as well as they should have, I didnt mean the OP but CCP. =)
I think the concept of an idea that Tech 1 - 2 Ships are limited to only a certain preconcepts of a number of bonuses system is limited in thought but instead should be based per bases of what the ship is ment to do. But going to T2 might mean they are stronger or have special roles.
If I was to build a Sleipnir and Claymore over again but still sorta going by their ideas. They would look like this.
Sleipnir: 10% Bonus to Falloff per Level, 5% Bonus Rof Per Level. Next Tier: 7.5% to Shield Booster per level, 7.5 Bouns reduction to Shield Booster power usage.
Role Bonus: 99% Reduction in Warefare Link Modual CPU need. 10% Bonus to Skirmish Warfare Link Effectiveness.
Claymore: 10% Bonus to Optimal Range per Level, 5% Bonus to damage per Level. Tier 2: 7.5% to Shield Booster Bonus and Tracking Speed per Level.
Role Bonus: 99% Reduction in Warefare Link Modual CPU need. 10% Bonus to Skirmish Warefare Link Effectivness. Can use up to 3 Warfare Links.
I just personally think that a frontline unit needs to support with some firepower but really needs to tank while also supporting with its Warfare Links while as a Rear Line Unite needs to snipe more helping to put it out of harms way with some tanking ability while it supports several Warefare Links going on.
That is some of my thought process on that.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.13 05:45:00 -
[847]
I see what you are getting at. I will see if they can be changed in that fasion.
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Valharu
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Posted - 2009.12.15 01:00:00 -
[848]
Looking forward to see what you come up with.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.15 02:02:00 -
[849]
Its significantly harder then I was anticipating. Removing one skills and adding another is doing more to muddle what the ships are for and whatthey can do then i was anticipating.
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Doctor Sora
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Posted - 2009.12.15 03:36:00 -
[850]
Well, this looks more thought through than a lot of recent CCP implementations (or maybe they just got unlucky this time). U've been around for 2 years now, always making it better and better, i don't really see why isn't CCP giving back any feedback to this thread. I think that this is a very good idea, would be cool to have some of these for smaller aliances who live in low-sec, and most of their battles do not involve cap-ships.
Thank You :)
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Valharu
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Posted - 2009.12.16 01:29:00 -
[851]
Take your time and think it through. I just don't think that many of the ships are thought out as well as they should have been from a Military stand point.
Such as the Slip as a Frontline CC Ship and those like it, need to support the front line from the rear which means extended short range firepower and an excessive tank to be able to stay in it to keep the gang mods running.
And the Claymore as a Theater CC, use some tanking and range to mitigate incoming damage and needs extended long range firepower to help support while it runs mulitipul gang mods.
I just think, that they should look a little more at the why's when it comes to ship design. And don't get stuck on a uniformed bonus system, build ships upon a concept and let it flow from there and THEN let players play with their mods from that point forth.
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Eagle Tarquinas
Gallente
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
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Posted - 2009.12.16 03:59:00 -
[852]
This is cool stuff, keep up the work Balor... hopefully someone in CCP decides to finally take a serious look at this post.
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usrevenge
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Posted - 2009.12.16 04:28:00 -
[853]
Flagship sounds more like what a mothership would be =)
not a BS.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.16 23:24:00 -
[854]
Yah I know the flagship name has been suggested for other ship classes. Its just a working name. Heavy Command Ships does not sound as sexy as Flagships. Just my opinion.
CCP seems to be rather tight lipped about everything they do and even more so now a days. Had one guy from CCP respond to the thread but he gave no hints about what was going on. But in all honesty I would love to see these ships in the game. But knowing CCP they may read this thread, they may not. I have done what I can to advertise these ships to people.
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Badger Beard
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Posted - 2009.12.18 14:38:00 -
[855]
I think the Flagship idea would be better incorperated into the black op ships (which would therfore lead covert op fleets into cyno jammed systems) and sacrifice their turrets in order to fit the command modules.
I would then have the tech 2 varients of the tier 3 BS to become subcapital dreads but have a restriction on the ships only being able target structures. I do not think sub cap dreads should be as powerful as the actual dreads but would pose a significant threat to POS's whether they may be. It would also be great to have them able to equip the covert cyno module to give the covert fleet insertions real bite.
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riverini
Gallente
MOTHER-CORP
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.19 08:09:00 -
[856]
i support this....
Balor, CCP is gonna be worried that u might ask for revenues bcz this was ur idea, maybe that's a hold up for them...
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Private Marcus
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Posted - 2009.12.30 18:33:00 -
[857]
/signed
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MeBiatch
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Posted - 2009.12.30 22:47:00 -
[858]
hmm dont know if this has been suggested yet...
but these ships should be like mini-titans(without a ddd)... one of the main things that is happeneing in eve right now is you have a large fleet and if you dont have a spare titan you try to crash the gate and end up lagging the system to kingdom come...
if you are a jerk you will say just get a titan... but hell not every damn alliance/corp can afford one(70 billion isk) so as a idea of not overloading the grid would be use these tech II bs's having a roll bonus that allows them to use jump portal generators
black ops will still be usefull(can cyno in jammed systems)
so now you can get your hands on one of these pretty ships and can move your fleet around
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.06 06:39:00 -
[859]
Honestly making Flagships into complete mini titans would make the Titans themselves completely useless save for being long range artillery. Something that CCP would like to avoid something like that. Also the major issue with making Flagships, is the issue of making them into overpowered super ships. The more we avoid that the more we avoid the nerf bat later.
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MeBiatch
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Posted - 2010.01.08 02:02:00 -
[860]
 Originally by: Balor Haliquin
Honestly making Flagships into complete mini titans would make the Titans themselves completely useless save for being long range artillery. Something that CCP would like to avoid something like that. Also the major issue with making Flagships, is the issue of making them into overpowered super ships. The more we avoid that the more we avoid the nerf bat later.
i am not saying they would get a far jump range... perhaps only a couple light years... that way the titan can still brige in ships from a longer range... the ship would provide another option then storming the gates for smaller alliances... i would prefer to see this bonus then the race specific other mini titan bonus on the ship... plus the ship does not get a mini ddd so titans are still usefull...
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.08 22:32:00 -
[861]
Well one of the major issues with giving the Flagship the ability to use bridges is that you can not make cynos in high sec. And the advantage with the command and control ability of the Flagships is that they give titan like fleet bonuses in high sec. and they are much more mobile then their capital cousins. So the benefit of the bridge are kinda mitigated. Even with the bridge ability its usefulness as a bridging ship is rather low. Also note that limiting the range of the jump bridge for the Flagship would only make the bridge more useless. Most of the jumps that you are going to be looking to do would be 3-5 light years. And that is the general range of the Jump Bridge. Any sorter then that at it becomes little more then another temporary gate to get to the next system.
It is an interesting idea. But the issues it makes for ballancing and actualy working with current game mechanics make it a rather poor option.
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MeBiatch
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Posted - 2010.01.09 01:25:00 -
[862]
Originally by: Balor Haliquin
Well one of the major issues with giving the Flagship the ability to use bridges is that you can not make cynos in high sec. And the advantage with the command and control ability of the Flagships is that they give titan like fleet bonuses in high sec. and they are much more mobile then their capital cousins. So the benefit of the bridge are kinda mitigated. Even with the bridge ability its usefulness as a bridging ship is rather low. Also note that limiting the range of the jump bridge for the Flagship would only make the bridge more useless. Most of the jumps that you are going to be looking to do would be 3-5 light years. And that is the general range of the Jump Bridge. Any sorter then that at it becomes little more then another temporary gate to get to the next system.
It is an interesting idea. But the issues it makes for ballancing and actualy working with current game mechanics make it a rather poor option.
dude 2 ly is inline with what the black ops starts off with i would assume the the flagship would start off with the same... that gives you 4 ly with max skills...
plus as it stands logistics with titans takes forever to setup... you end up waitn hours for it to be setup and watching grass grow is more interesting... but if you had multiple flagships moving fleets around and getting them into position would be faster...
its your ship idea bro... but i would not rule out the bonus just yet...
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.10 22:16:00 -
[863]
Ohh no man I'm just saying that giving the ship a bonus of that nature would, in my mind, make the Titan a bit on the useless side. Not to mention overshadow the Black-Ops battleship. Because why bother skilling for a titan or black ops because the Flagship could provide you with the benefits of a bridge at 1/100th the cost. Not to mention the added benefits of a fleet bonus like the Titans.
I understand what you are getting at but i want to avoid stepping on the black-ops toes and make more of a move on the titan's job.
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MeBiatch
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Posted - 2010.01.18 01:43:00 -
[864]
Originally by: Balor Haliquin
Ohh no man I'm just saying that giving the ship a bonus of that nature would, in my mind, make the Titan a bit on the useless side. Not to mention overshadow the Black-Ops battleship. Because why bother skilling for a titan or black ops because the Flagship could provide you with the benefits of a bridge at 1/100th the cost. Not to mention the added benefits of a fleet bonus like the Titans.
I understand what you are getting at but i want to avoid stepping on the black-ops toes and make more of a move on the titan's job.
yeah i was thinking the same thing about the black ops ship... but then the black ops can still cyno in a jammed system... and as a way not to overpower the ship the flagship would only beable to jump people in your wing... that way the titan is still good for moving a whole fleet but the flagship would be usefull in moving reinforcements...
i personally think there should be more ships in the game that can bridge ships... i think this would help with alot of the lag problems that CCP is facing atm...
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.18 02:24:00 -
[865]
Okay let me clarify how bridging works. You have to be in jump range of the target system with the Titan or the Black-Ops ship. Then you po any cyno or a covert cyno for the Black_ops to get into a cyno jammed system. Then your fleet mates can right click on the Titan or Black-Ops and go through like a Jump Portal Generator. They pop out on top of the cyno ship and that is that.
The issue with this is the fallowing. Ships that can use bridging need to be able to jump, because the bridge range is calculated off of the jump range of the ship. This means that putting one on a flagship will be a jump capable ship. Also consider the fact that the flagship will then gain a fuel bay for such use. And as current game mechanics there is no way of restricting who can use the jump bridge in the fleet. And as far as I know if you are jumping to a standard cyno with a covert bridge, it works like a standard bridge. Thus this negates any benifits of the Flagship having one.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.14 04:33:00 -
[866]
*Bump*
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Altaica Amur
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.02.14 05:17:00 -
[867]
Seems like a decent idea overall though I'm inclined to flip the roles on the Caldari pair of ships as combat wise the missile boat shares space with the Raven and the Golem while the rail boat only has the Rokh as a comrade in roles and capabilities. I think it would be nice to flip weapon types compared to their command ship counterparts so that the other weapons system gets a chance on a more dedicated combat platform. This might also be an appropriate concept to extend to the other races, giving Amaar missile users a chance to get a more aggressive combat ship and gallente drone users the same. How to do with certainly is worth questioning, either it can be approached with the current model of simply allowing players the option to go all weapons at the expense of their command mods or offering a role bonus to reduce the number of turrets needed, this may prove particularly important in getting a drone ship to preform similarily to the others that lean more heavily on high slots.
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2010.02.14 06:45:00 -
[868]
Edited by: Battle Tested on 14/02/2010 06:48:23
I like the idea of the flagship, a true command ship that the FC would use. It would need a superior tank, effective fleet bonuses, but i would do a little different as far as the dmg output. i would give it a bonus to field 5x fighters....this way he can delegate his dps to someone else so he can concentrate on commanding his fleet instead of putting out his dps...give him 5 fighters with a 50% bonus to dps, no guns/launchers....command link bonuses that exceed that of a standard command ship, and it would need a large increase in hp and resistances. It should get a large bonus to fighter hp/speed/dmg/tracking. This ship should be electronic warfare immune but most of all it should be expensive.
Another option of this is to make this a T3 ship, give the pilot the option of different setups to range from small gang warfare to large fleet scale. |
Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.14 23:39:00 -
[869]
The Flagship is not designed to be a carrier in any form. The fighters themselves are a bit overpowered for such a small platform. One has to imagine what the effect of 10 fighter baring Flagships would have when facing 10 Marauders. The fighters can chase the other ships all over the system and the marauders have to be in direct fire range of the Flagships. Simply put it would make them too powerful to easily.
As they are, Tech 3 ships are a ship class that is a very diverse and adaptibale platform. They would not match up with the very specific role of hevay tanking command ship that the Flasgships represent.
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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.25 14:54:00 -
[870]
Flagships/Heavy Command Ships in tyranis
C/D?
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