Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 19:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Odium47
Black Ops are for one purpose missions, not for gate campers.
I could barely detect it. But this is some very hard to detect sarcasm. Expect flaming. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
slothe
Caldari 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 20:05:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Odium47
Black Ops are for one purpose missions, not for gate campers.
your thinking about marauders i think
|
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 20:29:00 -
[33]
Originally by: slothe
Originally by: Odium47
Black Ops are for one purpose missions, not for gate campers.
your thinking about marauders i think
Originally by: Odium47
It has 125% speed under cloak...what else do you need ???
Im not sure... _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 20:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: twit brent I have tried to get through 2 gate camps so far in mine and on both occasions my ship just couldnt jump far enough. Most camps are on gates connecting regions and are way too far for a blackops to jump.
Im yet to find someone with cyno field op lvl 5 in my alliance to use covert cyno.
Fuel usage is way too high to be jumping any decent size group of recons arround.
Starting to feel I wasted alot of isk.
You cant find way how to use Blackops? PPL who responded to me said they can evade gatecamps easily O_O
/sarcasm
Yes thats what i had on my mind. Slow, mediciore tank/gank ability, weak logistics ability, short jump range, fuel problems, lock time problems, speed problems (due to mass), price tag(?).
Atm they are waaaaay pre-nerfed to be of any decent use. ofc s1 will jump in in a moment saying "its so good coz he killed s1 and moved 2-3 recons to jump onto unsuspecting solo bs" but tbh opening cyno and jumping in carrier instead of covops BS would be more fun. And price tag is almost same (think abt carrier insurance ;p).
|
Aeaus
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 21:45:00 -
[35]
I'm not too sure about fuel being a problem, recons have fairly large cargo bays and there's hardly anything stopping an organized group from each dropping a can with the amount of jump fuel they need and the Black Ops constantly refilling. Yes, it's annoying, but it's not a game breaker. A separate fuel hangar would solve this problem, or even a skill to further reduce the fuel cost (Does Jump Portal Generation have an effect on the covert one?) to something more suitable.
The real problem is, IMHO simply an issue of jump distance. Bring it back up at least to 4 LY, if not as high as a carrier.
With all the other gimps to the class, at least they should give the benefit of high mobility. But, I think the skill requirements should be even more severe, as it stands now, a carrier pilot can hop into one in less then a month of training.
|
Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 21:46:00 -
[36]
Never thought they would be this pre-nerfed, seems ccp fear battleships, both the marauders and cov ops where sort of meh...
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
|
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 22:12:00 -
[37]
I'm going to give CCP a concession on this one and assume that Black Ops ships came into the game heavily pre-nerfed, because as it stands now they are nearly useless. They can't hold enough fuel more more than a couple jumps... and that requires nearly all their cargo space. The jump range is horrible as well.
Add to this the fact that they can be seen in local and it's more like a 'Very Light Gray Ops' ship. This is my thread on fixing local to make them more useful - Read it here.
My crusade for faster missiles. |
UGLYUGLY
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 22:21:00 -
[38]
Edited by: UGLYUGLY on 17/12/2007 22:22:02 I was talking with some people, they say it would be the next must have ships for isk farmers.
Use the jump drive to go into and out of 0.0 when your out of ammo, in danger or full of loot.
I don't know how viable it is, haven't tested one myself (no where close to being able to either
I some how don't think this is what it was made for
|
Velox Idolon
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 22:24:00 -
[39]
the panther can get an alpha of 6.3-4k without counting wreckings, the redeemer can get about a 5k alpha and 1000ish dps, the sin about 4 and a bit thousand alpha (all at 50km), and the widow can do about 900 dps while also having a 450dps tank and 4 jammers fitted (torp range).
they aren't meant to tank :)
|
Swiftness
Caldari VMF-214 Blacksheep
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 22:28:00 -
[40]
Panther, or how i spent 800M+ for bumping people around by surprise
|
|
Aeaus
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 22:32:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Velox Idolon the panther can get an alpha of 6.3-4k without counting wreckings, the redeemer can get about a 5k alpha and 1000ish dps, the sin about 4 and a bit thousand alpha (all at 50km), and the widow can do about 900 dps while also having a 450dps tank and 4 jammers fitted (torp range).
they aren't meant to tank :)
I think you're far off there. A Redeemer with 6 x Mega Pulse IIs, 3 x Heat Sink IIs, and 5 x Ogre IIs can pull 1050 DPS, but only 2383 in Alpha Strike. Whereas with Tachyons (good luck fitting these) it can break the 1K DPS barrier, but with 3574 Alpha Strike.
I agree though, they're not meant to be heavy tanking ships, but, they need some buffer before your recon group can disable the target(s).
|
Velox Idolon
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 22:37:00 -
[42]
tachyons aren't hard to fit :), need 2 t2 ACR rigs and -5% turret cpu implant, which on a ship worth this much is not too much to spend imo (also am using 5% turret damage and 5% energy/proj/hybrid turret damage implants for the calcs).
tactic : decloak having had target painted and webbed by huginn, alpha, recloak, wait and repeat :)
|
Aeaus
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 22:46:00 -
[43]
Uhm, yea, I mean, that's over the top for calculations. T2 ACRs? Maximum Alpha Focused Implants?
Why don't you go out and actually buy all that, fit it, and then come back claiming how rigs which cost 400M+ a piece aren't too expensive for this paperweight.
|
Ally Poo
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 22:55:00 -
[44]
omg, blackops i see are perfect.
jump past that gate camp and get every other ewar ship in with it and sealthbombers. insta pop those frigs with SB's, jam a few primarys and wait for the main fleet to jump threw and facking pwn everything while your targets are trying to kill your ewar ships.
if black ops could warp cloaked that would make them toooo good. plus u get that no targeting delay after decloak and the speed boost.
i have no clue if i just made sence but really, when i saw the widow, i fell in love. blackops are fine the way they are.
|
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 22:58:00 -
[45]
Quote: Only americans and russians have imperial mentality, only they like things to be big.
WTF? Back to school, kid.
I don't want to see the damage boosted, as Black Ops shouldn't be 'jump behind enemy lines and pwn stuff solo' ships, but they do need dedicated fuel bays, and a slightly longer jump radius, and the ability to get more than a couple other ships through their portals.
|
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 23:27:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Aeaus Uhm, yea, I mean, that's over the top for calculations. T2 ACRs? Maximum Alpha Focused Implants?
Why don't you go out and actually buy all that, fit it, and then come back claiming how rigs which cost 400M+ a piece aren't too expensive for this paperweight.
Now now Aeaus, be nice to the brave little EFT forum warrior.
Originally by: Odium47 LoL, still thinking "balshoi" style ? Only americans and russians have imperial mentality, only they like things to be big.
I'm sorry, what? Do you actually believe that stereotype or are you just a troll? Really mate, stop reading the weekly manifesto and try getting some actual life experience, would do you wonders.
Taxman IV: Rogue Agent
|
Varrakk
Phantom Squad Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 09:07:00 -
[47]
Blackops Summary: The Consept: Infiltrate and disruption in hostile terretory, with a guerilla/wolfpack squad (3-5ships).
The flaws: *Operatoin Lifetime - Fuel, fuel and fuel become a massive hindrance. Jump Drive/Portal costs too much, too low capacity for fuel.
*Jump Range - 2ly is too short, with Jump Calibration 4, you can jump 4ly.
*Fitting issues - CPU Shortage, I only have experience with Panther/Redeemer. But both could use +50cpu. Doable to fit Cloak/Portal. If you add a Covert Cyno gen ship gets problems.
Sollution: *Separate fuelbay, for Jump Drive and Jump Portal
*Increased jump range, 3ly base would make this ship alot more flexible. With 4ly range its too easy to predict where they jump.
*Fuel use reduction, 1-2 jumps wont get this ship far. And it certainly cant bring along a few friends. For this ship to really shine, it should be Able to do 3-5 jumps, and bring along 2-3 Cruiser and 2-3 Frigate class ships.
|
Xequecal
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 10:46:00 -
[48]
The Redeemer is the only one that seems to have a huge amount of value. Fit it with Tachyons to go to town at long range. To get past a hostile gate camp, you just have a recon ship run the camp, warp to a safe spot, and cyno you in. You can then just proceed to the system you want in enemy territory since they're unlikely to have gate camps in successive systems.
You recon friend finds and tackles the target and you warp in at 100 to toast it. The NOS/damp nerfs have made it hard for recons to solo battleships, but they can easily tackle it for you to shoot. If hostiles show up, you can both just cloak immediately. The recon can warp while cloaked and they're not going to get within 2km of you starting from 100km away.
Solo, the Redeemer can sit 100-150km off the gate and just try to blast things that jump through. You could even deploy a bubble on the gate, move to 150km out, and blast bigger ships that try to run for the edge. Remember, when they enter system all they will see is the bubble, they won't see your black ops ship. If anything nasty shows up you can just cloak.
The other three blackops just don't seem that useful. The Widow can jam, but jamming is not what you need here. A Falcon can do the jamming just fine, you need something that adds DPS, something that the recons CAN'T do. The Sin has to abandon its drones at the first sight of trouble. The Panther moves really fast for a battleship, but the DPS output is terrible.
|
General Cane
Federation of Synthetic Persons
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 10:51:00 -
[49]
in my opinion the only real pwn black op (not from dps or so but from usability) is the widow with its ew power
|
Trind2222
Amarr Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 11:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Trind2222 on 18/12/2007 11:13:46
Originally by: Xequecal The Redeemer is the only one that seems to have a huge amount of value. Fit it with Tachyons to go to town at long range. To get past a hostile gate camp, you just have a recon ship run the camp, warp to a safe spot, and cyno you in. You can then just proceed to the system you want in enemy territory since they're unlikely to have gate camps in successive systems.
You recon friend finds and tackles the target and you warp in at 100 to toast it. The NOS/damp nerfs have made it hard for recons to solo battleships, but they can easily tackle it for you to shoot. If hostiles show up, you can both just cloak immediately. The recon can warp while cloaked and they're not going to get within 2km of you starting from 100km away.
Solo, the Redeemer can sit 100-150km off the gate and just try to blast things that jump through. You could even deploy a bubble on the gate, move to 150km out, and blast bigger ships that try to run for the edge. Remember, when they enter system all they will see is the bubble, they won't see your black ops ship. If anything nasty shows up you can just cloak.
The other three blackops just don't seem that useful. The Widow can jam, but jamming is not what you need here. A Falcon can do the jamming just fine, you need something that adds DPS, something that the recons CAN'T do. The Sin has to abandon its drones at the first sight of trouble. The Panther moves really fast for a battleship, but the DPS output is terrible.
You must RCU to fit Tachyons.
This is a EFT setup all is LVL5 can't fly a blackops but i got to this setup on EFT.
5 Mega Beams II Aura L Improved Cloaking Device II 2 sensor booster II Target range script 1 Sensor booster II Target speed script 100 mwd 1 damage control II 3 HS II 3 Tacking Enchanter II
This unproven setup fly it at own risk.
|
|
Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 11:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ally Poo omg, blackops i see are perfect.
jump past that gate camp and get every other ewar ship in with it and sealthbombers. insta pop those frigs with SB's, jam a few primarys and wait for the main fleet to jump threw and facking pwn everything while your targets are trying to kill your ewar ships.
if black ops could warp cloaked that would make them toooo good. plus u get that no targeting delay after decloak and the speed boost.
i have no clue if i just made sence but really, when i saw the widow, i fell in love. blackops are fine the way they are.
Are you high, or did you just not read the thread? And when did you fly a SB last, you do know the only thing that die to those are T1 frigs and ceptors standing still with their mwd on?
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
|
Minerva Moore
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:15:00 -
[52]
Funny. People always cry for more "diversity" and "variety" in Eve.
Then a new shiptype shows up. It's quite obviously a niche ship, with a few specific and very fleet-oriented uses. In other words, a new tactical toolbox. Limited but potentially powerful.
But of course everyone cries bloody murder 'cause they aren't yet another solo-wtfpwnmobile. So much for diversity, eh?
Sure black-ops are a little pre-nerfed, anything else would be dumb, but these were never meant as a perfect tool for sologankers to pwn stuff. I dunno why people expect that of every new shiptype. Possibly 'cause the fleet-pvp folks pwn rather than post.
|
Minerva Moore
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dristra It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Yes it is. You get to whine as much as you like and nobody can say anything 'cause your ships suck.
|
Waxau
The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:30:00 -
[54]
Tbh, when i first heard about Black Ops, i expected them to be BS Recon Ships. I was wrong.
With the lack of ability to fit a Cov Ops Cloak, theyre just as vulnerable as stealth bombers to a gang - Fair enough...can JUST about live with that, as theyre GANG ships. However, to me it doesnt make sense, seeing as how theyre supposed to go behind enemy lines, and be rather effective and infiltrating.
As for the jump portal stuff, and jump range. Tbh, that sounds a bit crappy to me. Having said that, the way round that is get gang mates to bring you fuel.
Despite this however, i do actually think BOBS (Muhahaha) could do with a decrease in fuel requirements (to stop them being damn good haulers, with a cargo bay extension) and also jump range increase.
Its not an I-Win button imo, cos any decent gang will catch it. But from my first conceptions of BOBS, i expected to be able to jump into a system, and warp to a belt cloaked, take out a ratter, and then cloak and warp out. For a 1 bil BS, it should have a certain strength to it, for those who are willing to RISK it. But if you remove that 1 bil value, it is overpowered. Folks need to keep price in mind imo.
|
LadyShu
Federation of Synthetic Persons STYX.
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:33:00 -
[55]
Edited by: LadyShu on 18/12/2007 12:35:07
Quote: But of course everyone cries bloody murder 'cause they aren't yet another solo-wtfpwnmobile. So much for diversity, eh?
Hello? Read before you flame. Nobody here wanted another "SOLOPWNMOBILE", nobody cries for more dps etc. All we (as Black Op Pilots and testers...) want is a LITTLE BIT more jumprange, nothing else, do you get it?
And hell yes turn on your brain damnit. Its a niche ship, BUT where is the point in such a ship when it cant do its job... we dont need expensive battleships with cloak who make suicide in fleet operations. ... EveTUBE.COM - Your bandwidth will be owned sir. |
Minerva Moore
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: LadyShu
Quote: But of course everyone cries bloody murder 'cause they aren't yet another solo-wtfpwnmobile. So much for diversity, eh?
Hello? Read before you flame. Nobody here wanted another "SOLOPWNMOBILE", nobody cries for more dps etc. All we (as Black Op Pilots and testers...) want is a LITTLE BIT more jumprange, nothing else, do you get it?
Really? Take your own medicine and read the post just above yours.
Originally by: Waxau i expected to be able to jump into a system, and warp to a belt cloaked, take out a ratter, and then cloak and warp out.
That is asking for a solopwnmobile.
|
LadyShu
Federation of Synthetic Persons STYX.
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:39:00 -
[57]
he posted after you, but most people who answered just whine about the jump issue and thats the problem after all.
You probably never used a black-op and say we want i-win ships. Bull**** ... EveTUBE.COM - Your bandwidth will be owned sir. |
Minerva Moore
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:44:00 -
[58]
Originally by: LadyShu he posted after you, but most people who answered just whine about the jump issue and thats the problem after all.
You probably never used a black-op and say we want i-win ships. Bull****
He posted before you told me nobody was asking for a solopwnmobile though. And if you refer back you see the whines about how blackops cant pwn a t2 fitted t1 bs. Well...
No, I've never flown a BO. So what? It doesn't take that to understand it is a fleet oriented, special purpose ship.
Guess I'll just sit back and wait for a thread complaining that electronic frigs are useless cause they can't pwn intys or sologank freighters.
|
LadyShu
Federation of Synthetic Persons STYX.
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:50:00 -
[59]
Quote: No, I've never flown a BO. So what? It doesn't take that to understand it is a fleet oriented, special purpose ship.
Hell yes it does because then you would know wtf are you talking about! Even in a fleet its a expensive sh1tload of a BS with a damn cloak who cant jump anywhere because of its limited jumprage, get that damnit! And wtf do you think should it do after the jump hu? intel? sorry the recon/covop used to open the cyno can do this for the fleet.. tank and bait? uh wait... no it cant (should not be able to anyway)...
I give up on you, whine on about whiners... I aggree with you about the guys wanting a i-win ship BUT there is stil the fact that there is NO "niche role" for this ship with its pre-nerfed stats... ... EveTUBE.COM - Your bandwidth will be owned sir. |
Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2007.12.18 12:55:00 -
[60]
I haven't flown the BO ships yet (but getting there). My impressions by looking at the specs and after talking with people, is that fundamentally the idea is sound: bypass a gate camp, jump in a recon gang, perform in support role (some DPS / EW, but definitely a gang ship).
However, it's obvious that the implementation leaves much to be desired. The jump range is much too small, the fuel use (esp. the fuel use of the jump bridge) is way too high, the jump bridge is active for a ridiculously short time, there are CPU issues... the list goes on.
Here's hoping CCP does a slight un-nerf on these, sometime soon.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |