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Black Ops good on paper, a joke in reality?

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LadyShu Federation of Synthetic Persons STYX.	Posted - 2007.12.14 23:19:00 - [1] I skilled towards blackops right after they were announced by ccp (also cloak 5 as it was a rumour that it would be required for Black Ops sigh) The role of this ship for clandestine operations behind enemy lines sounded perfect to me and my playstyle. I jumped into a panther when they were available on sisi and tried some fittings and tested the ship in general especially the jump drive stuff, i made suggestions in the gamedev forum and discussed with other possible blackop pilots, and in my opinion ccp failed again with a ship for a given role. Tons of testers mentioned that the jumpdrive fueluse is a joke... nothing happened. I got a pretty expensive panther on sisi today and really nothing changed :( - 4 ly jumprange may be enough on the paper... it should be enough to bypass some gatecamps etc, but the system layout of the most systems doesnt allow big jumps, and if so it needs like what? 800+ isotopes?! if you have enough fuel with you for 2 4ly jumps you cant carry much capboosters and very little ammo. - The Jumpbridge is a joke... you cant jump many recons, even if everyone brings in there own fuel, the jumpbridge only holds a few seconds and you really need to work with cans. - The Slot and Grid... Well you have 8 high slots. I tried (at least on the panther) 800er artillerys, 650er etc. doesnt really happen which ACs you fit (dont even think about fitting 1400ers artis...) you get troubles with at least 2 highslots... you need 5 guns, 1 cloak, 1x bridge generator.. impossible if you want a decent tank (if not fitted for speed)... This ship (panther) actually is a limited phoon which can move when cloaked, thats it. And since you cant warp cloaked everyone sees you coming. I dont demand a solo pwn mobil (the dps isnt high enough on this ship for this either...) but for the price of this ship, the very high skill requirements (i guess you can easy go for caps after this ^^) and the limited use its just a waste of isk. My suggestions would be: - more cargospace (more fuel?) or - possibility of warp cloaked (make cov op cloak available to black ops its atm a bs sized recon after all...) or - let them jump 8ly instead 4ly, then people could live with the limitations. I cant see a future for Black Ops if the stay like they are :/ The idea was pretty good and the solo combat functionality is great in blackops, but it really lacks some bonuses for its intended role. sorry for my poor english ... EveTUBE.COM - Your bandwidth will be owned sir.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.12.15 00:22:00 - [2] I won't undock in this ship until I can fly Ogre IIs. That's a shame about the jump range and fuel requirements, but as for weapons, I can't imagine why you aren't using Ogre IIs, except that you just don't have the skills, like me. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.15 01:05:00 - [3] Even t2 ogres dont help em. Those are T2 BS that cant actually kill t2 fit t1 BS, can rip apart BCs (commands MIGHT be a problem sometimes) and cant kill smaller ships due to fugly lock time (oh he decloaks, lets warp away). Was playing with redeemer but in the end... ill just take normal geddon.
Warrio Mining Bytes Inc. Insurgency	Posted - 2007.12.15 01:33:00 - [4] I believe their intended purpose was to move behind enemy lines in order to work in conjuction with a main fleet as opposed to moving behind enemy lines and killing every mother f***ing thing they see. Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain
Fault24x Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2007.12.15 01:45:00 - [5] exactly. If these ships could jump where they please and kick ass they would be ridiculous. They are a niche role ship and should remain that way.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.12.15 01:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Fault24x exactly. If these ships could jump where they please and kick ass they would be ridiculous. They are a niche role ship and should remain that way. this. Plus a healthy dose of pre-nerf, as is required for all drastically new ships with completely new roles. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
3nkil The Chocolate Factory	Posted - 2007.12.15 02:04:00 - [7] so you want a ship that can avoid gate camps- yet wtfbbq a normal t2 fit BS? how about no?
achoura	Posted - 2007.12.15 02:11:00 - [8] Creating multpile identical threads usualy results in an mod + click m8 *The EVE servers and their patches*
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.15 16:13:00 - [9] Originally by: 3nkil so you want a ship that can avoid gate camps- yet wtfbbq a normal t2 fit BS? how about no? You have no chance in hell to evade gatecamp in sth that barely moves 1km/s with MWD (even with mwd+cloak trick). Before they move from position after cloaking tacklers will be on them and decloak em.
Raxxius Maelstrom	Posted - 2007.12.15 16:46:00 - [10] yeah... but they can just jump past them.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.15 17:34:00 - [11] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: 3nkil so you want a ship that can avoid gate camps- yet wtfbbq a normal t2 fit BS? how about no? You have no chance in hell to evade gatecamp in sth that barely moves 1km/s with MWD (even with mwd+cloak trick). Before they move from position after cloaking tacklers will be on them and decloak em. How about jumping past gate camps yea? --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.15 17:44:00 - [12] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: 3nkil so you want a ship that can avoid gate camps- yet wtfbbq a normal t2 fit BS? how about no? You have no chance in hell to evade gatecamp in sth that barely moves 1km/s with MWD (even with mwd+cloak trick). Before they move from position after cloaking tacklers will be on them and decloak em. How about jumping past gate camps yea? ANyways... even if you jump past gatecamp... what you want to accomplish with that ship what other ships cant do?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.15 17:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: 3nkil so you want a ship that can avoid gate camps- yet wtfbbq a normal t2 fit BS? how about no? You have no chance in hell to evade gatecamp in sth that barely moves 1km/s with MWD (even with mwd+cloak trick). Before they move from position after cloaking tacklers will be on them and decloak em. How about jumping past gate camps yea? ANyways... even if you jump past gatecamp... what you want to accomplish with that ship what other ships cant do? You can get past 0.0 entry point, then jack up people behind enemy lines thinking its safe to join or leave the main camp. Use your imagination, and there isnt really anything wrong with the fighting capabilities of a blackop BS... --------------------------------------------- [Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.12.15 17:52:00 - [14] Originally by: 3nkil so you want a ship that can avoid gate camps- yet wtfbbq a normal t2 fit BS? how about no? A Widow can do this pretty easily in a 1v1 situation. The Panther is pretty bad in comparison to the Sin/Widow, can't comment on the Redeemer as I'm not familiar with it.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.15 17:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: 3nkil so you want a ship that can avoid gate camps- yet wtfbbq a normal t2 fit BS? how about no? You have no chance in hell to evade gatecamp in sth that barely moves 1km/s with MWD (even with mwd+cloak trick). Before they move from position after cloaking tacklers will be on them and decloak em. How about jumping past gate camps yea? ANyways... even if you jump past gatecamp... what you want to accomplish with that ship what other ships cant do? You mean what no other ship but a Titan can do?
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.17 03:07:00 - [16] I have tried to get through 2 gate camps so far in mine and on both occasions my ship just couldnt jump far enough. Most camps are on gates connecting regions and are way too far for a blackops to jump. Im yet to find someone with cyno field op lvl 5 in my alliance to use covert cyno. Fuel usage is way too high to be jumping any decent size group of recons arround. Starting to feel I wasted alot of isk.
Varrakk Phantom Squad Insurgency	Posted - 2007.12.17 10:36:00 - [17] Most of these ships need more CPU and a separate fuel bay. Maybe even a 3ly base jump distance.
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.17 11:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Varrakk Most of these ships need more CPU and a separate fuel bay. Maybe even a 3ly base jump distance. More jump distance and a separate fuel bay would solve stuff, why are people against covert cloaks on the black ops bs anyways? It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Glarion Garnier Solar Wind STELLAR LEGION	Posted - 2007.12.17 11:56:00 - [19] I like the sound of the fuel bay for this ship. -RonP 2008-
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.12.17 12:21:00 - [20] - Seperate jumpfuel bay - A little longer jumprange - Take away the scan resolution penalty for fitting a cloak
FraXy 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.17 12:35:00 - [21] Originally by: TZeer - Seperate jumpfuel bay - A little longer jumprange - Take away the scan resolution penalty for fitting a cloak Sums it up nicely. But i just expect they are a bit pre-nerfed and will be balanced soonÖ. One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Varrakk Phantom Squad Insurgency	Posted - 2007.12.17 15:45:00 - [22] Will take alot of time to get these fixed. Still very few that can fly these ships. And even fewer that can with the portal.
Telonia Reis	Posted - 2007.12.17 15:59:00 - [23] Hmmm, I really think the fitting needs to be a bit different for these ships than the standard tank/gank. You can reasonably get your panther up to 1km/sec cloaked, and if you spend some money 2.2km/sec cloaked will make this thing a serious pain with some off-grid safe spots.
Liam Fremen Gallente Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.12.17 16:02:00 - [24] Well the main point is that they cant's make these ships able to warp cloaked, if you check it all recon are very very very very limitated on killing stuff, some from dps other from range, but they are not made for solo work even if it works at same with some brain using ^^ If for exemple they make a Dominix, even a bit "nerfed" that can warp around cloaked even with malus to re-locking range, you would have a ship able to break too many tanks :) thing that an arazu have hard time doing... Btw, for the rest i agree, they should have 5ly base jumprange, like dreads and a fuel consumption that give you the ability to send at least 20 ppl inside enemy space. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Check me out! I'm so badass that i scare off myself!
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.17 18:08:00 - [25] Edited by: madaluap on 17/12/2007 18:09:17 Atm im just concerned in the sin, maybe panther in couple months. But the sin seems awesome. Corpmate of mine allready worked out a lot of sweet setups. Im just waiting till the prices drop, allthough i can allready use the portal and ship itself. Seems like the pwnmobile i allways wanted /edit: how many people can you exactly jump around atm? _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
FraXy 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.17 18:34:00 - [26] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 17/12/2007 18:09:17 Atm im just concerned in the sin, maybe panther in couple months. But the sin seems awesome. Corpmate of mine allready worked out a lot of sweet setups. Im just waiting till the prices drop, allthough i can allready use the portal and ship itself. Seems like the pwnmobile i allways wanted /edit: how many people can you exactly jump around atm? Read some stuff on SHC about 3 recons`ish and maybe 1-2 frigates, if that.. So not many and you would need good logistics prepared before-hand to get you anywhere. One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Kaaii Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs	Posted - 2007.12.17 18:41:00 - [27] Well My widow came out of the factory today, and I sat, starreing at the blank fitting screen wondering what to put on it. I have a "pretty decent" skill set to draw from. I'm maxed in EW, Cyno 5, been Caldari dread/carrier capable for over a year now, so aside from Black opts 2-5 I have a short list of what to train to make use of it. Im "full" missle spec'd as well, plenty of support engineering skills, and shields are towards the top of the playing field. So that being said... High slots - 5x CM 2 Launchers 1x COCD 1x CO portal generator Mids - Hear I'm thinking task dependant. I full rack of 5x DG ECM multispecs gives me around 18 strength if I did the math right. So, dedicating 4-6 slots for jammers Then maybe a Sensor Booster II Large Shield Booster II/faction Inv shield II Some mix of stuff I haven't really decided on. Lows, only 4 slots, but - BCU II Dist Amp II DCU II ? ------------ Id like to know about the jumping part though. Im assuming I need a cyno field "ahead" of me to jump to, I can't just click on map spot in range and jump can I?? I haven't gotten a portal generator made yet, factory says 2 days still for a few, I do have the CO-Cyno gen, which I can fit in place of one of the Cms I guess. The Op's notes about the fuel concern me. Don't know if skills will midiagate the amount far enough(?) down to be able to sustain operations for more than a few jumps. Ive not been on test server to check all this out, so I'm kinda lost on the mechanics of the portal/jump stuff. Thoughts? (Oh and goons, once this is nailed down, say hello to me and a few of my little friends, deep in your back yeard ) Thanks in advance.. K According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.12.17 19:07:00 - [28] Edited by: madaluap on 17/12/2007 19:08:23 Originally by: FraXy Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 17/12/2007 18:09:17 Atm im just concerned in the sin, maybe panther in couple months. But the sin seems awesome. Corpmate of mine allready worked out a lot of sweet setups. Im just waiting till the prices drop, allthough i can allready use the portal and ship itself. Seems like the pwnmobile i allways wanted /edit: how many people can you exactly jump around atm? Read some stuff on SHC about 3 recons`ish and maybe 1-2 frigates, if that.. So not many and you would need good logistics prepared before-hand to get you anywhere. oowwww DAMN, thats what i call PRE nerfing CCP. A 600-700 mil ship to build, not insurable ship. Combined with a skillrequirment that only maxed out bs + capital + recon pilot can use. To move around 3-4 recons? LOL...atleast 10 recons, minimum! Allthough 15 would be decent. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
FraXy 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.12.17 19:34:00 - [29] Seperate jumpfuel-bay seems like a good answer, but might allow to use both the designated fuel-bay and the cargo space which might be overpowered in the eyes of CCP. Just hope the people that will be balancing them for proper use got some TQ experience and make the neccessary changes. One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Odium47	Posted - 2007.12.17 19:37:00 - [30] LoL, still thinking "balshoi" style ? Only americans and russians have imperial mentality, only they like things to be big. Black Ops are for one purpose missions, not for gate campers. If you want to avoid a gate camp, get a Dread/Carrier + buddies to break them, or a fast ship to evade them. It has 125% speed under cloak...what else do you need ???

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