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Letzlin Schaneger
Crypsus
Tetsuo Shio
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
If there is one thing that has been imbued upon me as a new player (Or at least, a player which is well and truly done with Incursions and Market PvP) it's the importance of maintaining a good killboard. If you don't have a 80%+ ratio, no one worth flying with, will want to fly with you.
So clearly a bad killboard is something I wish to go to great lengths to avoid, and given that any mistake made will haunt you for the rest of your EVE career, or even make you completely unhireable if your losses are particularly unfortunate, not to mention my leisure time is valuable and I don't want to waste it with fools. In light of this, why would I want to join a corporation which is, or at least is operated with anything less than:
Activity.
Competence.
Experience.
And so far my experiences of trying to find a good group for the past month have consisted of 3 main experiences and 1 minor:
"Sorry, no PvP kills, no recruitment. Get 200 kills and a 90% ratio then come back and we will talk." - That's fair enough. If I was sat at the top of the pile I would probably ask for the very same out of my recruits.
"Come fly in my 10 man derp corporation. We're active in EU TZ and hardcore mercenaries!" http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=corp&name=Psychic+Genocide Oh Dear.
"Come be a mindless drone in my 0.0 renter alliance. Be prepared to be thrown into the meatgrinder by our overlords, suffer under a 20% tax and have your ships and assets locked without notice!" - Sounds unappealing, but is sadly the best offer in the table at the moment.
And then my favourite which I have had twice now when actually approaching a decent group that is willing to accept new players. "Sorry, despite having your API history which is cleaner than a saint and having spoken to you extensively over the past few days, people who have less than 10 million skillpoints and level 5 in logistics and decent ECM skills are obvious spies (?!?). You're a threat and I can't recruit you."
So, because I have actually taken steps to make myself more useful and recruitable, it actually works against me, because anyone who wants to fly a ship which isn't for dealing damage is clearly criminally insane or a spy. Of course the explanation "I did incursions. I didn't need offensive skills to do damage as I was most useful as a logistics pilot." holds no sway.
So now I am between a rock and a hard place. I am either doomed to spend weeks in fleets with incompetent knucledraggers umm'ing and arr'ing over aggro mechanics praying that we kill at least 2 ships before I die.
I can either be a cog in a giant all consuming alliance and hope that I can get my name on enough kills before the power shifts and our renter alliance gets chewed out.
Or I can stick a cloaking device on my Tengu and go Rambo in some low-sec system for a few months.
It's a very tough cycle to break, and I was wondering if anyone had any advice on what I could reasonably do to step up and above the rest? Those sitting in awesome PvP corps that have heroic battles against innumerable odds, where did you start? What would be your advise for an up and comer?
On a side note, if you do fly in a competent corporation that needs more competent, self sufficient Logistics/ECM/Tengu/Drake pilots do let me know. |
Humidor Cigarillo
6
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Letzlin Schaneger wrote:Logistics/ECM/Tengu/Drake pilot.
Found your problem. |
ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
570
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Most of those e-peen corps are terrible anyway, the only way they get thier magic effieciency is by can baiting and blobbing
Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt! |
Letzlin Schaneger
Crypsus
Tetsuo Shio
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Confirming that Scimitars, Tengus and ECM are practically unused in PvP.... Hmm, wait, no that's not quite right is it? :) |
Humidor Cigarillo
6
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Letzlin Schaneger wrote:Confirming that Scimitars, Tengus and ECM are practically unused in PvP.... Hmm, wait, no that's not quite right is it? :)
By those meatgrinder alliances you want to avoid, they are used a lot.
By those elite pvp corps you want to join, not so much.
Of course I assume there that you won't be capable of simply flying a tengu into fights all the time. If you can actually afford to do that, you might just be !elitepvp material. |
CausticS0da
Viziam
Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
What's all this about 20% tax and locked assets?
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Letzlin Schaneger
Crypsus
Tetsuo Shio
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Humidor Cigarillo wrote: Of course I assume there that you won't be capable of simply flying a tengu into fights all the time. If you can actually afford to do that, you might just be !elitepvp material.
Well, I did just play the markets and do incursions for the past 5 months. Let's just say I am comfortable.
If it is the case that those sorts of ships aren't frequently used by good small gangs, what should I look at training in to?
CausticS0da wrote:What's all this about 20% tax and locked assets?
If you space gets conquered or if your overlords decide they don't like you any more, that's it, you are locked out of your station and can't access your assets. And in order to pay the rent for the system some of the renter corps I have spoken to have operated a 15-20% tax. |
second Tolate
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
If you don't have a 80%+ ratio, no one worth flying with, will want to fly with you.
apparently you have a standart too, why shouldn't others?
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Plutonian
Intransigent
76
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Letzlin Schaneger wrote:If there is one thing that has been imbued upon me as a new player (Or at least, a player which is well and truly done with Incursions and Market PvP) it's the importance of maintaining a good killboard. If you don't have a 80%+ ratio, no one worth flying with, will want to fly with you.
Holy crap. I haven't posted kills or losses in two years. 
Guess no one ever want to fly with me... 
|
Humidor Cigarillo
6
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Letzlin Schaneger wrote:If it is the case that those sorts of ships aren't frequently used by good small gangs, what should I look at training in to?
Look at your target corp's killboard losses, that should give you an idea. I'd hazard a guess most of them will be hurricanes, various angel ships, tornados, and a smattering of some new fotm assault frigates. |
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Letzlin Schaneger
Crypsus
Tetsuo Shio
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
second Tolate wrote: If you don't have a 80%+ ratio, no one worth flying with, will want to fly with you.
apparently you have a standart too, why shouldn't others?
Next time actually read my post and notice where I didn't say anything at all to the contrary, and actually went on to say they have every right to maintain that policy and that I would if I was in their shoes. |
second Tolate
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.02.05 10:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Letzlin Schaneger wrote:second Tolate wrote: If you don't have a 80%+ ratio, no one worth flying with, will want to fly with you.
apparently you have a standart too, why shouldn't others?
Next time actually read my post and notice where I didn't say anything at all to the contrary, and actually went on to say they have every right to maintain that policy and that I would if I was in their shoes.
just that sentence implies that so learn to make your ideas clearer!
doesnt matter how you twist it, you want to fly with good pvpers cuz thats what you want, others have the right to have the same sentiment, isn't it a free world even in eve?
if you suck and someone has standart why would they want to fly with you?dont they have the choice for that??
you imply that others should play your way and not have the freedom to play as they want!
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Letzlin Schaneger
Crypsus
Tetsuo Shio
0
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
second Tolate wrote: just that sentence implies that so learn to make your ideas clearer!
doesnt matter how you twist it, you want to fly with good pvpers cuz thats what you want, others have the right to have the same sentiment, isn't it a free world even in eve?
Well, obviously I want to fly with good PvPers, but nowhere did I say I was entitled to transcend their rules, please note 3 paragraphs down.
""Sorry, no PvP kills, no recruitment. Get 200 kills and a 90% ratio then come back and we will talk." - That's fair enough. If I was sat at the top of the pile I would probably ask for the very same out of my recruits."
It's called context sensitivity. Sure, quoting odd things I say as stand alone statements will portray a point that furthers you ends to rage at strangers over the Internet, but it doesn't necessarily, or even at all give an honest representation of what I am saying.
You are mistaking "If you don't have a 80%+ ratio, no one worth flying with, will want to fly with you." as a whine. It's not. It's a statement. |
Sicex
49
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Confirming that killboards killed EVE. |
Guthris
The Shard Restaurant
18
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
People are so obsessed with killboard stats...
Just get rid of killmails all together and it will fix the attitude some people have in this game |
second Tolate
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Letzlin Schaneger wrote:second Tolate wrote: just that sentence implies that so learn to make your ideas clearer!
doesnt matter how you twist it, you want to fly with good pvpers cuz thats what you want, others have the right to have the same sentiment, isn't it a free world even in eve?
Well, obviously I want to fly with good PvPers, but nowhere did I say I was entitled to transcend their rules, please note 3 paragraphs down. ""Sorry, no PvP kills, no recruitment. Get 200 kills and a 90% ratio then come back and we will talk." - That's fair enough. If I was sat at the top of the pile I would probably ask for the very same out of my recruits." It's called context sensitivity. Sure, quoting odd things I say as stand alone statements will portray a point that furthers you ends to rage at strangers over the Internet, but it doesn't necessarily, or even at all give an honest representation of what I am saying. You are mistaking "If you don't have a 80%+ ratio, no one worth flying with, will want to fly with you." as a whine. It's not. It's a statement.
point being you want other to behave your way without giving them the freedom to do what they want even if you want to call it "context sensitivity"!
dont force others you ways
adapt or die to quote some old eve corp ;) |
Sicex
49
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
To address both points of contention when killboards first arrived on the scene... Yes, killboards provide invaluable stats and intel (both positive and negative, a blockage and a leak) but what if we were all ignorant to it anyway? Would it matter as much? What if intel actually had to be earned and collected again, like it used to be.
Is it so wrong to dream of an Eden where a pilot's own rep as a killer is tied more to his or her terrifying portrait and mere presence in local rather than some database numbers sets of his EXACT performance?
Such is the crux of this argument... maybe it's time to have it again.
Is EVE mature enough today to have this argument? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
2775
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
The answer is that you start at the bottom and work your way up. As you yourself have pointed out, the "good" corps are that way because they exclude people who haven't yet proved themselves.
BTW, genuinely good PvP corps won't worry overmuch about the pure K:D ratio. If most of your kills are solo or have just a few ships on the mail, then a K:D of 60% is much better indicator of competence than a K:D of 90% purely derived from large fleet actions. And if you choose to specialise in interceptors and interdictors then you can pretty much expect to lose a ship in almost every engagement, but no PvP group worth it's salt will turn away a competent tackler; there's never enough tackle! Likewise a logistics pilot will probably have a mediocre K:D at best - in fact a high K:D can actually be a sign of a bad logi pilot: one who is spending too much effort on whoring on KMs and not enough on repping his fleetmates.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Steve Celeste
Wolfsbrigade
18
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
"Experienced Logi 5 Scimi pilot looking for PVP corp"
Post that on recruitment and you easily get into a good/decent pvp corp. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
59
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Best way imo, and not the shortest, is get an alt...buy one if you have to thats mostly BC and under based with as many races and styles and flavors as you can afford to have. Spend a few hundred mil to a few billion on ships and fittings. Standard stuff, nothing pricey, nothing better than t2. Fly that alt and those ships into the ground. FW, Pirating, ganking, you name it you do it. You get your 1000 fights in. Doesnt matter if you lose 90% of them. You do a self eval on EVERY fight. Fraps for personal use later to determine mistakes or successes. But you LEARN. Talk to your victims as well as those who beat you. Again you LEARN.
Then create a toon, taking the best ships and fittings you learned in your alt quest, and build his combat record to a near perfect record. Then start using the best ships and fittings beyond what you were before, pirate faction ships and t3s, into combat and win nearly 100% of the time.
You wont have any issues with PvP or applications afterwards.
Other way is doing it with one toon. Again it takes time cuz in the early years youll lose more than you win and spend time fighting alone or with chumps more often than not. You log into Eve and you get into a fight within 30 mins of logging in. You fight all day every day. How do you make isk you ask? Well you need alts for that or you pay for it with cold hard cash selling plexs and youll need to sell a shitton of them to do it. Either way works.
The first you end up with fewer kills but much better kills, many solo or small groups because your initial losses are hidden by your alt. The second you end up with many fights on your record including many losses but youll have the same amount of raw fights and raw experience under your belt.
Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
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Shazzam Vokanavom
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
61
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
You could go play King of the Newb Pile in Arnon, seems even the best scoreboards are built with some representation of KB padding. Also as a bonus you get to learn smacktalk level 5 at the same time. |
Implying Implications
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
17
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
My ~killboard efficiency~! |
Liam Mirren
236
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
When it comes to pvp there's just a few types of people.
- Most people are idiots (renters, bears and non-effort lazy fcks)
- most people think they're good but are still idiots, blobbing it up like lemmings (most 0.0 alliances)
- some actually are decent but lack age/wisdom/sense (larger PVP entities, wannabes)
- only a very select few are actually good and are able to look beyond K:D ratio, they actually notice that you tend to fly solo while having good fits and get cool kills and fights while only losing to blobs or very uneven fights. (very select few small gang/solo PVP corps).
The first two you want to avoid, the third you can get into simply based on stats (which doesn't necessarily mean anything) and tends to be full of Aholes and annoying people. The last type is the truly good one, you get into those by BEING good, not by looking good.
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
8
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
You maybe right, but I'd not care too much about that.
Killboards don't promote PvP they promote ganking.
Killboards are what the kids like as they can boast to each other about how great a PvPer they are.
I'd like to see killboards gone myself as I don't think they do the game any favours in general. |
Roxwar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Well being newer to EVE than yourself OP, i'm not finding any of the problems you've posted in trying to find a PVP corp to join.
Granted, im still in my starter NPC corp, but its not from lack of offers.
I do admit i'm taking my time choosing where to go as i do prefer to find somewhere and stick with them permenently and give 100% and i dont want to be one of those 12month old players with a corp history 20 long.
At the moment i'm trying to prove myself usefull to 1 of the corps i'd like to join, one that has pretty high min requirements to join, and after speaking with them in their public channel over a few days and eventually finding out what it is i need to be deemed usefull to them - keeping in mind taking somebody like me on board and teaching me up requires time and effort on their part, time and effort they dont nessessarily have spare, and needing to be sure im not a spy of some sort - and going away to meet those requirements in order for me to be even considered seriously.
I dont think Killboards have much to do with it really, my killboard sucks ass to be honest, but i think its more about attitude to this game and not being averse to losing millions on ships everyday.
To me, losing ships means im having fun, and having fun is what playing a game is all about with the added bonus of making some great friends in the process hopefully.
I dont hide my lack of skills in EVE upto now, but i do want to learn and by losing ships like i do, so long as i take something from each loss and i learned where i went wrong or how to avoid it next time, i think eventually i'll get where i want to be.
A good PVP'er who is an asset to his corp/Alliance.
http://roxwar.blogspot.com/ |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
327
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Posted - 2012.02.05 11:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Okay. I read the 1st two paragraphs and this quote popped into my head, "Why so serious?"
Sure, it's cool to be all focused on your hobby and make a big deal out of things, but your problem is in the 1st two paragraphs.
I make a habit of dying. I love dying. It's what I'm good at! Some guy doesn't like that? Eat my nose. This is my EVE.
Also, get rid of killboards, add achievements. Problem solved.
Fly Safe, Die Hard
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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
384
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Posted - 2012.02.05 13:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Okay, I read the first paragraph......
Look man, the fact that people in this game have some crazy insane kill ratios means one of two things: 1) They've either padded their KB with lame POS kills or 2) they've padded their KB with lame kills like HS docking games where the entirety of Jita local comes to their aid as neutral reppers.
I figure, as long as you're maintaining a positive KB who cares about the rest?
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1336
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Posted - 2012.02.05 13:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Stop wanting to be a sheep ?
I mean, seriously, joining corps like these isn't even worth the consideration.
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
60
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Posted - 2012.02.05 13:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Thing is, an 80+% kill ratio is a false economy anyway. All it means if you pick fights you can't lose. I'd rather have pilots who throw themselves into battles they can't possibly win, just for the lolz. |
Midori Tsu
Evolution
102
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Posted - 2012.02.05 13:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Maybe you're just looking at the wrong corps? It's odd, I've never seemed to have had a problem finding the corp i want to be in. |
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