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Grey Area
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Posted - 2004.03.17 10:55:00 -
[61]
I don't think it was ever intended that research missions become a way of life for players. In general they COST money rather than MAKE it, and any fool can see that regardless of whether or not the lottery is truly random or slightly skewed, the chances of getting a Tech 2 BP are very small indeed. That applies even more if you are fussy and waiting for a "juicy" Tech 2 BP, not just a Tech 2 toilet paper holder.
I run missions in EVE...I deliberately switched to a research corp, and moreover, one who had a reasonable quality research agent in the same system as a reasonable quality "normal" agent. This means in general I can do every research mission offered (assuming I play every day, which has not been the case recently) without taking out time to make X jumps to the agent's system.
If NOT getting a guaranteed BP from the research agent is a problem for you, then maybe you should consider doing something else instead, or making research a "sideline" as I have done, rather than trying to get the game changed to work as YOU would wish it. This does NOT mean that if the lottery systems is being exploited (by restarting research frequently for example) that it should not be investigated. I trust Papa Smurf on this 100%, as he's one of the few (only?) Devs who bothers to communicate with players on the Forums. If there's something dodgy with the system, he will say so - but for heaven's sake give the bloke a chance - I'm sure it's a lot of data to trawl through, and I'm sure it's not the ONLY job he has to do, nor yet the most important.
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.17 12:33:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 17/03/2004 12:50:51
You know what you should do IZON? Go read your first post in this thread, then go read the forum-rules definition of trolling.
Apply your own latest rant to it, pour yourself some milk, then go cry into it.
Your only contribution to this thread, from start to finish, has been deliberate trolling.
Opps - forgot - no it wasn't only trolling: you gave hundreds of people a chuckle in how badly you were caught out whilst trolling.. musn't forget that. 
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Celt Eireson
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Posted - 2004.03.17 12:47:00 -
[63]
Hmmmm just in reply to a comment someone made - it isn't just those with small numbers of RPs that get the BPs. My first tech 2 bp was gotten at about 4500 rps in mechanical engineering, which if a fair amount for a non-bonus skill.
My 2nd bp though was gotten at a massive 86 rps in high energy physics, however I do know that this is totally unrelated as this was obtained through a character on a 2nd account so in my case at least this doesn't corroborate the theory about double bps :-)
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IZON
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Posted - 2004.03.17 13:01:00 -
[64]
 Quote:
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 17/03/2004 12:50:51
You know what you should do IZON? Go read your first post in this thread, then go read the forum-rules definition of trolling.
Apply your own latest rant to it, pour yourself some milk, then go cry into it.
Your only contribution to this thread, from start to finish, has been deliberate trolling.
Opps - forgot - no it wasn't only trolling: you gave hundreds of people a chuckle in how badly you were caught out whilst trolling.. musn't forget that.
Get a life Mortk, really.
"...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!" |
PinkPanther
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Posted - 2004.03.17 13:50:00 -
[65]
lol @ the sad people who's only method of feeling special of cleaver is to flame...
Your lives must be so empty outside these forums
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.03.17 14:45:00 -
[66]
Quote:
...and because of the outcry from players who would be hard done by in having previously diverted training time to alt researchers...
If this is true then it's a shame that such an important aspect of the game doesn't reward specialists much and is so dominated by alts and people with a (relatively) tiny number of RPs. Personally I stopped doing research missions several weeks ago due to the suspicion that it didn't actually have a significant impact on the results of the lottery. What I have done is buy RPM, and now I think that may have been a reasonable thing to do after all...
An interesting calculation using the 'top' researcher figures is that, on average and assuming he maintains a proportionate position to the opposition throughout the project, it will take 131 lottery draws for him to win a ticket. Obviously those of use with less successful projects have to wait considerably longer. One wonders how many draws occur and how often? Assuming there are 5 draws a week, on average this ³ber researcher will have to wait 6 months before starting to feel a little unlucky in not getting a BP, and considerably longer before he can feel very unlucky. One way to get involved in the most draws is to start multiple research projects in different, and presumably overlapping, fields. Possibly this is the correct strategy then - get involved in as many draws as you can.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.03.17 15:51:00 -
[67]
It is a stair system. You have a level 1 type research skill you have chances above your level. So if you are doing a agent that has starship but you are doing Mechanical engineering you still have a chance to get the starship.
The key is that its distributed by NPC corp and its agents. If few are doing the npc corp then you have a better chance with that agent, unless Papa says otherwise. I remeber him saying something to this effect when the Lottery started.
Would you want to work for a company that treats you like a number or a few where your actions mean more?
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Rinji
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Posted - 2004.03.17 16:58:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Rinji on 17/03/2004 17:00:07
LOL @ all the flames. Can't say it's surprising, as people in general seem to have a poor intuitive understanding of Stat & prob. Toss in the consperacy theorists and the "my experiance must be representative of the whole" people and you get lots of amusing posts. 
However, I would not be surprised if there was a mutliple-bp bug. (Note I didn't say "I know", or "If you go to XYZ corp at 23:23 GMT then...") Our corp has not one but two multiple-bp winners, and both of them experienced the winnings fairly close together. We could just be lucky, of corse, but it is a little suspicious.
EDIT: Harris, PoPa has said, and it was repeated in this thread, that NPC corp means nothing. Only feild.
Vice Admiral Rinji Morisato
Logistics Division
Commanding Officer of Logistics Division |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.17 17:08:00 -
[69]
Quote:
The key is that its distributed by NPC corp and its agents. If few are doing the npc corp then you have a better chance with that agent, unless Papa says otherwise. I remeber him saying something to this effect when the Lottery started.
For crying out loud - read what people post.
PapaSMurf quite clearly stated, and the information quite clearly repeated in this thread: the RP pool is for the SKILL.. it has nothing to do with the agent or NPC corp at all.
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Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.03.17 17:14:00 -
[70]
TomB > semp: are you an owner of a Tech2 blueprint?
semp > 4 so far tomB :p
TomB > You own an elite frig bp as well?
lucky sods allready got 4 tech2 bps and Tombs asking if he has an elite frigate as well ?
bah i wish my rd agent whould show even the slightest hint of giving out a bp..or 4
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.03.17 17:34:00 -
[71]
Morkt:
1) it was stated its by field. I give you that but have you noticed some corps have better agents in certain fields.
2) Morkt is everything in the agent system bugged? I have looked over many weeks of forums and this is your greatest effort.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.03.17 18:29:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 17/03/2004 18:51:24
Quote:
Morkt:
1) it was stated its by field. I give you that but have you noticed some corps have better agents in certain fields.
Field IS Skill Hari.
E.g. Field= Caldari Staship, skill required = Caldari Starship Engineering. Makes not odds if your agent is with Bob the Builder or LaiDai... they just total up the RPs and pull out a winner. There is no breakdown by Agent or NPC Corp as you claimed.
Thats why PapaSmurf gave the figures quoted above: Total RPs and highest player RPs in that field.
I do not wish to pick fault with you over this, but your earlier claims were totally contrary to this. There's no point in proliferating such when it appears to be incorrect.
At the end of the day though only CCP have the information needed to verify any of this. We're not asking to change the system, we're not asking for all that info. We're simply asking them to double and triple check some instances of multiple winners that "feel" wrong and statistically look wrong.
Its not a witch hunt, its a pretty simple question and one which PapaSmurf IS looking into. Why? Because he thinks it's a bit odd also, not impossible, just "maybe" odd. Why so much bruhaha is caused by asking him to do that is a mystery.
- - -
Some people believe that the only way you can support a MOG is to praise it at every step, never question the devs and always believing they are inviolate and incapable of error. Others realise the stupidity of the former viewpoint.
Having benefitted from the current system, and likely to benefit further given no changes, how and why my motives appear to be questioned and chastised at every step is beyond me. Luckily I don't give a toss.
I want to know the system is working correctly, I believe implicitly in the right to question that it is working properly; anybody with issues over that belief - tough.
People like IZON who join these discussion with nothing but intent to troll from their first post onwards just make the effort more worthwhile...and life on IRC more fun.
It is, afterall, good to laugh.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.03.17 19:52:00 -
[73]
I will have the last word. That is I think the devs have done a wonderful job. True its not perfect and we can have a forum about it. I think its not fair to say that there is a bug and flaw and they have to check it.
Why do ther put in thier post that somethings will not be understood by the community? not completly
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
IZON
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Posted - 2004.03.17 20:37:00 -
[74]
Edited by: IZON on 17/03/2004 21:07:46
Quote:
People like IZON who join these discussion with nothing but intent to troll from their first post onwards just make the effort more worthwhile...and life on IRC more fun.
Oxymoron, the point has been made (repeatedly) we understand the issues and the devs are looking into it. With any luck PS will tweak Castor and the odds on high RP earners might be improved by X% & low RP earners shouldnÆt get so lucky, touche!
"...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!" |
Doppleganger
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Posted - 2004.03.17 21:18:00 -
[75]
Quote:
Toss in the consperacy theorists
Oh I hear someone talking about me.... if you dont believe in consperacy theories then you are not looking hard enough. hehehe 
This was thread just wondering if there was any errors in the distrubtion of t2 bpos... I guess I remember the devs saying once they wanted to make it so the winners of t2 bpos will have a chance of monopolies on them and by giving ppl multiple bpos this will happen. j/k
I mean after all we were just questioning the system trying to make sure it was working correctly.... for all the hard work CCP puts in they have been known to make mistakes.  Some never get caught until players speak up and question the system.
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Temujin Destovai
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Posted - 2004.03.17 23:21:00 -
[76]
Quote:
I will have the last word. That is I think the devs have done a wonderful job. True its not perfect and we can have a forum about it. I think its not fair to say that there is a bug and flaw and they have to check it.
Why do ther put in thier post that somethings will not be understood by the community? not completly
OUCH
The quality of trolling in this thread makes CA vs evolm0otion troll and flamefests look like a convention of Mensa members discussing world peace 
The Chronicles of Xanadu |
Phaethon
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Posted - 2004.03.18 00:22:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Phaethon on 18/03/2004 00:23:43
@ Ayane
If any bug's existed their presence would be a matter of galactic security, and would therefore fall under the category of plausible denial.
Or is it just simple denial? I can't seem to remember.
Anyway. All the tech II's BP's roumored to exsist is just ppl. seeing the refraction of a tech I bp through their pod goo.
WTB. Infifitrator I drones |
Astrid Tron
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Posted - 2004.03.18 00:32:00 -
[78]
Maybe it is some bug... The same kind responsible for some people being unable to recieve implants. I have been playing 10 months (about) and mainly running agents - never seen an implant, and I doubt that any of my 5 R&D-agents will ever be lucky, event though they are the top lvl3 researchers from 3 different corps. Some claim to recieve more than 1 implant in a day - what is that all about?
I know of colossal bad luck, and I dont think I am entitled to anything. But I am puzzled - is the system really working? If I could be assured that it was just bad luck, I would be more at ease, but I am really beginning to doubt that the random functions really work... The outcome seems too not random.
I dont mind loosing, but every once in a while, I need to know if the lottery is fair and working.
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When you have to kill a man, it takes nothing to be polite |
Doppleganger
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Posted - 2004.03.18 04:20:00 -
[79]
Quote:
Maybe it is some bug... The same kind responsible for some people being unable to recieve implants.I have been playing 10 months (about) and mainly running agents - never seen an implant
Do missions for me and I can say for sure you will recieve an implant, once you get a t2 frigate bp for me I can give you an implant or 2. 
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Jon Ogden
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Posted - 2004.03.18 07:36:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Ya I agree.. its not that I find it weird how people with low amount of RP get blueprints.. thats rather logical.. what I find weird is that ive now heard of
8-10 people who have gotten 2 blueprints from the same agent with next to little or no RP. If this happens to one guy id think "wow colossal good luck" but when it turns into a regular occurence it does seem a bit strange.
Exactly, I am concerned/confused about the seemingly high number of double-hits people are getting in rapid succession. Dunno what will be found, but it smells funny.
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Mned Graydroggen
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Posted - 2004.03.18 09:42:00 -
[81]
My 2 isk.
When I started to indulge myself in research I assummed that getting more rp's would bring me to a better position to get an bp. Like in a lottery one buys multiple tickets.
Reading through this thread I don't see any indication that there is some system of "multiple tickets" i.e. for every x rp's one gets one ticket in the next lottery. If this is the case this kinda sks.
I mean my corp has invested alot of isk in the first stages of research so that we would be gathering rp's asap. As the system seems to be now, all one has to do is talk to an agent, do one or two missions for him/her and then basicaly ignore him/her till a bp drops.
That doesn't make sence. I dont mind not winning the lottery, I do however mind that even if I buy multiple tickets ( do research extensivly ), only one of those tickets takes part in this lottery.
.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.03.18 09:52:00 -
[82]
1 RP = 1 ticket
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Albar Gray
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Posted - 2004.03.18 13:05:00 -
[83]
Just to let you know a friend of mine also got 2 BP's. However in this case, I belive the distribution is not at issue.
Having just recieved a BP, and restarted the project my friend was offered a 'Small Capacitor Booster II' which I suspect being so completely worthless had probably been refused a hubderd times already.
As my friend only had a hundred or so RP's having just restarted researching the BP was accepted and taken out of circulation to do everyone else a favour
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IÆm not schizophrenic...
ThatÆs my alt
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Mned Graydroggen
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Posted - 2004.03.18 13:29:00 -
[84]
Quote:
As my friend only had a hundred or so RP's having just restarted researching the BP was accepted and taken out of circulation to do everyone else a favour
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Mifune
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Posted - 2004.03.18 14:32:00 -
[85]
My simple 2 cents...
The quality of bp should be limited to what your doing/working for your agent... while lv of agent should go into this calculation.. so should your science lv... In all common sense it seems to me that if a slew of ****y reaserchers do work they will get a slew of ****ty bp's. While the rare/uber scientist are the only ones able to even fathom the rare and special bp''s like elite frigates and such. This is how almost all work in any RL situation progresses... A. number of Rp's should give you a better chance for a bp B. Your lv of skill should unlock better quality in rewards. Its helps game mechanics as well... think of it this way a huge corp could have all their peons get a few rp's a piece and because they have so many combined rp''s they get the "uber" bp.... sigh no thats just stupid game mechanics... A small specialized corp of scientist should be able to get less Rp''s than the uber corp of peons but because they are such high quality they can find/invent bpO''s out of the peons league. I mean if you look at current events why would the entire world of eve focus are two scientist for a 2months time period.. because those 2 scientist can create wonders no one else can. This is a natural work flow that the writers of CCP obviously understand, I just hope the game dev''s see this as well. --And if this is how the system works it is having issues because I have seen players with low rp''s and low lv's in skills get very nice bpo's while ive known ppl with a lot more rp's and higher lv's get low end bpO's... That makes no sense. Sure more ppl=more chances but there should be a limit on quality to quality... cause as it stands quantity to quality is the current status. Look at any other skills... higher the LV = more bonus's.. there are even more requierments on skills with this new patch.. I.E torp's need more skills... well make TL2 bp's have scientific requierments to invent... I guess thats the easiest way to solve the issue thats forming... and makes perfect sense while giving an actual reward for scientist to train their skills... 
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Sarena Sparrow
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Posted - 2004.03.18 20:28:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Sarena Sparrow on 18/03/2004 20:51:41
PAPA SMURF, this is why running missions SUX. Until you give those that do more greater rewards, that is. Until then, they are nothing more than an annoyance that has to be dealt with in order to get BP's.
Until you make it a tiered system where those with the most RP have the only chance of being in the highest teir for the best BP's, it is RETARDED.
Tier 1 - small modules - for peeps with low RP
Tier 2 - med modules - for people with medium RP
Tier 3 - Large modules - for peeps with lots of RP
Tier 4 - Ship BP's - ONLY FOR UBER RP's.
To reward someone with 100 RP the best BP in the game is kinda DUMB.
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Adliger Krieger
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Posted - 2004.03.18 20:33:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Adliger Krieger on 18/03/2004 20:36:54
Papa Smurf Said:
"I will neither participate in any discussions about how the lottery must be broken because so-and-so-won-but-I-didn't, nor even bother reading them, as the fact of the matter is that no player has or ever will have sufficient data to participate in a meaningful discussion about this."
You know what? I dont't have sufficient data to have a meaningful discussion about the molecular structure of cow cr@p, but that doesnt mean it doesnt stink.
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Bodhisattva
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Posted - 2004.03.18 23:22:00 -
[88]
I accepted an offered T2 BPO but the agent didn't give it to me. When I checked my RP's they were gone. Now when I try to do reserch with the same agent or any other agent of any corp (I have acsess to many different agents of various corps) they all tell me I have an ongoing reserch somewhere and can't start a new one. Now I seem to be out of the lottery and even though I filed a petition on the 9th of march I have got no reply from CCP. 
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.03.19 16:49:00 -
[89]
Just a thought..is anyone aware that computers cannot generate truly random numbers, it will create the same "random" number in a given situation. I think the C64 could because it used its on board sound chip's white sound (analogue) generator to do so. Don't mean to stir anything up but could this explain why the same people are getting the same rare BPs twice over.
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.03.19 18:16:00 -
[90]
Quote:
Just a thought..is anyone aware that computers cannot generate truly random numbers, it will create the same "random" number in a given situation.
If you go back about 2 months you'll find a rather long discussion we've already had on computer's psuedo randomization.
The long and short is, without knowing how and when a seed is created and the table generated, it's all idle banter.
--
TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
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