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Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.24 08:50:00 - [31] Edited by: Phyrr on 24/12/2007 08:52:46 Edited by: Phyrr on 24/12/2007 08:51:04 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 24/12/2007 08:47:30 Sorry guys, but Speed NEEDS to be nerfed. Nano is the new WCS. A nano gang is almost invincible vs anyone else that is not a nano gang. And forget about Rapiers/huggins etc, since when was the last time you saw a gang of huggins vs nanogang? As it stands, Nano's are the new WCS and this should stop. A nano ship can engage Any Amarr BS at will, and it cannot lose - it can only win or warp away if the going gets tough. This is EXACTLY what the WCS problem was - being able to warp away risk free if there was any danger. Nanoship is almost immune to missiles as it currently stands, due to a trick of game mechanics. Nerf Speed asap or make WEbs hit out to scram range (this will stop nano gang pvpers exploiting current turret/missile mecanics) stfu Amarr tracking sucks, sorry the boost amarr thread is that way >>>>> Look at killbaords...see dead vagas...see that your wrong. If your in a situation where its you vs a vaga in your amarrian BS then your an idiot. The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
culdor Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.24 08:52:00 - [32] Imho the whole pvp aspect of the game is lame, why cant we all just love each other and have our own veldroid belts? We need to think out of the box and make some good old paper-rock-scissors game out of this... oh and btw: merry x-mas!!!
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.24 08:53:00 - [33] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 24/12/2007 08:47:30 Sorry guys, but Speed NEEDS to be nerfed. Nano is the new WCS. A nano gang is almost invincible vs anyone else that is not a nano gang. And forget about Rapiers/huggins etc, since when was the last time you saw a gang of huggins vs nanogang? As it stands, Nano's are the new WCS and this should stop. A nano ship can engage Any Amarr BS at will, and it cannot lose - it can only win or warp away if the going gets tough. This is EXACTLY what the WCS problem was - being able to warp away risk free if there was any danger. Nanoship is almost immune to missiles as it currently stands, due to a trick of game mechanics. Nerf Speed asap or make WEbs hit out to scram range (this will stop nano gang pvpers exploiting current turret/missile mecanics) Stupid post is stupid. -----
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.24 08:53:00 - [34] Originally by: culdor Imho the whole pvp aspect of the game is lame, why cant we all just love each other and have our own veldroid belts? We need to think out of the box and make some good old paper-rock-scissors game out of this... oh and btw: merry x-mas!!! Nerf Paper it always beats my Rock! The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2007.12.24 09:59:00 - [35] I wasted 2 years on specializing in Amarr and in order to PvP in anything but a huge blob, I have to train for Minmatar. Thank you very much. Me be it's time to balance the game finally?
Xiong Yoshi Honour and Brutality Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 10:20:00 - [36] Time for Nano Pilots to start looking at how they will adapt, eh? Good. ------------------------------------------------ There are only two types of ships: those which have blown up; and those which will.
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.24 10:27:00 - [37] Originally by: Estephania I wasted 2 years on specializing in Amarr and in order to PvP in anything but a huge blob, I have to train for Minmatar. Thank you very much. Me be it's time to balance the game finally? 2 yrs to pvp huh? Too much balance = equilibrium, which btw = booooooring. if you can't kill stuff with 2 yrs specialization then your either just rubbish at pvp or your fitting sucks. You chose to train Amarr, no one forced you. Minmatar aren't exactley easy to specialize in. Funny that it's all amarrian pilot complaining, maybe the problem is with amarr ships not minmatar? ever considered that? What your asking for is the 100% ability to stop a speed tanker, so your effectively asking for speed tanking to be removed...then what? Ships specialized in speed tank...how? Get friends or fit a webber, auto cannons work on amarr ships just fine and use no cap. The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.24 10:28:00 - [38] Originally by: Xiong Yoshi Time for Nano Pilots to start looking at how they will adapt, eh? Good. you win the sweeping statement award... next poster pls! The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
sneakybustard	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:01:00 - [39] speed deffo needs to be nerfed. bring that out hard.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:10:00 - [40] Edited by: Grimpak on 24/12/2007 11:11:31 vagas impossible to kill? in a day, we managed to kill 5 vagas with our gang of arround 7 people. and we only had one rapier. and we also popped a faction-fitted nano-ishtar quite easily. once I got my web on him he simple went "pop". Poor guy, I wonder if he had LG snakes on that clone ANWAYS, a nano-setup is pretty killable if you have half a brain. --- planetary interaction idea!
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:13:00 - [41] Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 24/12/2007 11:11:31 vagas impossible to kill? in a day, we managed to kill 5 vagas with our gang of arround 7 people. and we only had one rapier. and we also popped a faction-fitted nano-ishtar quite easily. once I got my web on him he simple went "pop". Poor guy, I wonder if he had LG snakes on that clone ANWAYS, a nano-setup is pretty killable if you have half a brain. seems we have a pvp'er here:) The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Viashivan Amarr Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Levin Cavil Speed has ruined this game. It is extremely powerful and right now completely breaks balance between classes. Speed should be part of the equation in PvP, not everything. The mechanics of this game are not designed to accommodate ships that go much faster than 4k/sec. If you want to pimp your ship out and get snakes and do double that in the fastest ship in the game that's fine, but it should not be easily obtainable. It's time to adapt, speed should not be the answer to everything. Here we go. I 100% agree. There is an egde concerning the speed of a ships. Once you are able to get above that edge you are not affected by most game-mechanics. That dramatically increases you chances to survive. Thus speed across the game should be nerfed in such an extend that no one can go above that edge. People that are speed tanking should be close to that edge and in that way reduce damage they are reciving. But und no circumstances they should be invunerable due to speed, no matter the ISK the spend on their setups.
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:31:00 - [43] Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 24/12/2007 11:11:31 vagas impossible to kill? in a day, we managed to kill 5 vagas with our gang of arround 7 people. and we only had one rapier. and we also popped a faction-fitted nano-ishtar quite easily. once I got my web on him he simple went "pop". Poor guy, I wonder if he had LG snakes on that clone ANWAYS, a nano-setup is pretty killable if you have half a brain. Then that Ishtar pilots was dumb as he came into a web range. If the nano pilot makes no mistakes, he's either runs away or kills the victim. It's the prospect of PvP with little risk that makes all those nano-fans to come to arms. Anyone remembers stabbabonds, which could kill a lot of stuff and were hard as hell to catch? Now it's nanobonds. CCP should really look into the "worthiness" of different attributes. If we are talking about PvP outside of 300 man lagged to death fleet engagements, speed outweighs both the tank advantages and the gank advantages of other ships.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:35:00 - [44] no one is immune to human error. Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:54:00 - [45] Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 24/12/2007 11:11:31 vagas impossible to kill? in a day, we managed to kill 5 vagas with our gang of arround 7 people. and we only had one rapier. and we also popped a faction-fitted nano-ishtar quite easily. once I got my web on him he simple went "pop". Poor guy, I wonder if he had LG snakes on that clone ANWAYS, a nano-setup is pretty killable if you have half a brain. Then that Ishtar pilots was dumb as he came into a web range. If the nano pilot makes no mistakes, he's either runs away or kills the victim. It's the prospect of PvP with little risk that makes all those nano-fans to come to arms. Anyone remembers stabbabonds, which could kill a lot of stuff and were hard as hell to catch? Now it's nanobonds. CCP should really look into the "worthiness" of different attributes. If we are talking about PvP outside of 300 man lagged to death fleet engagements, speed outweighs both the tank advantages and the gank advantages of other ships. the "little risk pvp" only happens if you invest ****loads of isk on the ship. Also there are 2 kinds of nano-pilots: the ones that know what they are doing and pick targets accordingly (and those are the ones you have to worry about), and the ones that are pretty much asking for them to be killed, wich is the most of them. a vagabond, for some reason only engages a BS when he's sure to win (as in, a ill-prepared BS), same for the nano-ishtar. you put a web or 2 on them and WHOOPSIES, there goes a 200mil (at least) ship. an interceptor can get them (that's how we got that nano-ishtar). Remember, that the faster people go in EVE, the more arrogant they are, and more prone to mistakes they are. as I said, a nano-setup is pretty killable if you have a brain. more so if the pilot is arrogant enough that he thinks he can get away. --- planetary interaction idea!
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:03:00 - [46] That's a nice kill, but I suspect you have an interceptor with setup that costs may be only a little bit less than that nano-Ishtar setup. Of course when nano-ship is webbed, he's melting in seconds. The problem is that competent nano-pilots warp out before you can even lock them, and the solution to this is a small blob with dictors, bubbling the hell out of the gate. It's nearly impossible to kill those guys in any other way.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:07:00 - [47] Edited by: Grimpak on 24/12/2007 12:08:31 Originally by: Estephania That's a nice kill, but I suspect you have an interceptor with setup that costs may be only a little bit less than that nano-Ishtar setup. Of course when nano-ship is webbed, he's melting in seconds. The problem is that competent nano-pilots warp out before you can even lock them, and the solution to this is a small blob with dictors, bubbling the hell out of the gate. It's nearly impossible to kill those guys in any other way. my interceptor setup? 3 T2 ions 1 T2 mwd 1 T2 web 1 T2 2pointer 1 T2 suitcase 1 T2 ANP 1 T2 cpr no rigs. and I don't have any kind of speed implants. heck, only implants I have is the regular +4 ones. cost of such setup? 20mil at most. cost of that ishtar that got killed? at least 500mil and probably 1bil with the pod. I wish podmails could display the implants that the guy had with him remember that nano-*****s are more prone to mistakes due to the "noone can hit me yarr" syndrome and the fact that speed can also make you commit mistakes faster. --- planetary interaction idea!
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:17:00 - [48] Originally by: 3nkil Can you say BIGGER blobs? Currently in EVE you can take a light fast force and go on "search and destory" trips around space. You can do this because these ships generally warp fast, most fast, and have enough firepower to pew pew any easy prey. You remove speed from the game and all we get is convensional blobs. People will not go out with anything less than a blob because to do so would mean death. You run into a gate camp and you can not MWD out of it. You will need to slug it out. To the OP: 1. You don't want to end up in a difficult fight against a bigger blob. 2. You want to pew-pew easy prey. In other words, you want the ability to engage only in fights you can win, and be able to avoid fights you can lose. Its perfectly natural to want this, but obviously impossible to get. CCP's 'fixing' of WCS was exactly meant to force people to 'slug it out' more, as you put it. The fact that you need to wander for 4 hours or more, is because it is so easy to avoid 'slugging it out'. Blobs will always be there, the point is to avoid creating a game of just nanoblobs. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:24:00 - [49] The problem with this game is that people go on the god damn forums to whine whenever theres a tiny problem. It aint THAT hard to web and kill those nano ships. Id say the perfect nano killer is a bhaalgorn (bonus to webber, disruptor, nos and neut) The problem here is that people expect to solo kill a battleship/commandship pilot with 30 mil skillpoints, and they expect todo it in a cheap cruiser. Omg they are faster then me, nerf! Omg they use nos, Nerf! Omg theire commandship tanks better then my cruiser, Nerf! Omg that battleship smarbombed my frig, Nerf! This is the ** i read on the forums all the time. How bout adapting for a change? Or just quit eve i dont really give a . To take on solo gangs wich have spendt 10 bill on setups and implants, well go buy a ***** bhaalgorn, get in a gang and go roam. How god damn hard is it?
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:27:00 - [50] Originally by: Grimpak the "little risk pvp" only happens if you invest **loads of isk on the ship. Also there are 2 kinds of nano-pilots: the ones that know what they are doing and pick targets accordingly (and those are the ones you have to worry about), and the ones that are pretty much asking for them to be killed, wich is the most of them. a vagabond, for some reason only engages a BS when he's sure to win (as in, a ill-prepared BS), same for the nano-ishtar. you put a web or 2 on them and WHOOPSIES, there goes a 200mil (at least) ship. an interceptor can get them (that's how we got that nano-ishtar). Remember, that the faster people go in EVE, the more arrogant they are, and more prone to mistakes they are. as I said, a nano-setup is pretty killable if you have a brain. more so if the pilot is arrogant enough that he thinks he can get away. QFT, in the end it has nothing to do with setups, just with the fact that most people that whine about nano setups are EPIC** fail, last week we had a fight in one of the home system of the local alliances, we had a 8 character nano gang (lot of people flying 2 accounts so about 4/5 people actually controlling accounts) and they had 2 rapiers, scimitar (remote rep), thanatos (remote rep), and like 6/7 ships dps support and they still only managed to get 1 huginn kill, we killed 2x rapier, vaga, eagle.
Rexthor Hammerfists Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:33:00 - [51] funny how the nano and wcs problem equals, and the agruments are the same. -
Ebil Scout	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:36:00 - [52] Edited by: Ebil Scout on 24/12/2007 12:39:30 I#d be perfectly fine with the way speed works if the max-speed obtainable would lie somewhere around 5.5-5.8k ms max. with 6k ms being the max-speed achievable by the fastest ship ingame with the most expensive equipment including implants. 3.5 k ms is usually enough to outrun the tracking of most turrets. Just scale back the max-speed of drones,and everything but precision missiles/rockets to be be about 5.5-5.8 k ms and everything would be fine. Scale back the effect of webifiers accordingly as well and you can even make afterburners a bit more viable while at it. The problem I see is not so much with the fact that stuff goes too fast in general- it's just that the point of diminishing returns in terms of speed is too high. A 7k ms ship while being nearly unable to hit/tackle anything is plain annoying- it's the fact that it can run away a bit too quickly. Oops- alt-post- my main is El Mauru
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:39:00 - [53] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 24/12/2007 08:47:30 Sorry guys, but Speed NEEDS to be nerfed. Nano is the new WCS. A nano gang is almost invincible vs anyone else that is not a nano gang. And forget about Rapiers/huggins etc, since when was the last time you saw a gang of huggins vs nanogang? As it stands, Nano's are the new WCS and this should stop. A nano ship can engage Any Amarr BS at will, and it cannot lose - it can only win or warp away if the going gets tough. This is EXACTLY what the WCS problem was - being able to warp away risk free if there was any danger. Nanoship is almost immune to missiles as it currently stands, due to a trick of game mechanics. Nerf Speed asap or make WEbs hit out to scram range (this will stop nano gang pvpers exploiting current turret/missile mecanics) QFT!
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:46:00 - [54] Originally by: Drasked QFT in the end it has nothing to do with setups, just with the fact that most people that whine about nano setups are EPIC fail, last week we had a fight in one of the home system of the local alliances, we had a 8 character nano gang (lot of people flying 2 accounts so about 4/5 people actually controlling accounts) and they had 2 rapiers, scimitar (remote rep), thanatos (remote rep), and like 6/7 ships dps support and they still only managed to get 1 huginn kill, we killed 2x rapier, vaga, eagle. You make a very good point here. You simply don't understand how well your post emphasizes the whole nano-problem. That nano rage pro and contra is the conflict between "have" and "have nots" in this game. The nano craze caused the situation that in order to be useful of any kind in small scale PvP (read fun PvP, because fleet slide-shows are anything but fun) you have to invest tons of ISK into the ship. Not everyone can do that. Many ppl will never be able to do it not because they suck in Eve, but because it's damn hard to accumulate such immense resources if you are not investing either tons of time, or some extra RL money (be it GTCs or other "utility" accounts) into the game. I will tell you about my main. I play since 2005, I PvP since 2005, one account, never sold GTCs. The most I ever had in cash was 1.4 bill (and it was some lucky shot, otherwise I wouldn't even come close) 1 bill in cash right now. 1.8-2.3 bill in cash and assets (roughly estimated). No steady ISK influx, that would allow me to throw away 300mill-400mill ISK ships. There will be no such influx unless I buy another account or open my own GTC shop. There are a lot of ppl like me. Current game mechanics render us nearly useless in "fun" PvP. The gap between the "have"'s and "have nots" should be brought under control or it will start hurting the game.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:48:00 - [55] This thread is class. Its fun reading all the nano-pilots, who used to tell everyone to adapt and stfu, get all up in arms about adapting themselves. Not only are they getting riled up, but they have taken to personally insulting anyone and everyone who opposes their viewpoint. Now I'm not for or against this nerf, but reading the hypocrisy in this thread is just grand. Adapt or STFU (yep I mean you nano-pilots). If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Scott Ryder Infestation. The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:53:00 - [56] Originally by: Spenz This thread is class. Its fun reading all the nano-pilots, who used to tell everyone to adapt and stfu, get all up in arms about adapting themselves. Not only are they getting riled up, but they have taken to personally insulting anyone and everyone who opposes their viewpoint. Now I'm not for or against this nerf, but reading the hypocrisy in this thread is just grand. Adapt or STFU (yep I mean you nano-pilots). First of all i dont fly nano, what i think is funny is how the whiny little *****es (the non nano people) cant kill nanos, so they want speed nerfed further :)
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Estephania Originally by: Drasked QFT in the end it has nothing to do with setups, just with the fact that most people that whine about nano setups are EPIC fail, last week we had a fight in one of the home system of the local alliances, we had a 8 character nano gang (lot of people flying 2 accounts so about 4/5 people actually controlling accounts) and they had 2 rapiers, scimitar (remote rep), thanatos (remote rep), and like 6/7 ships dps support and they still only managed to get 1 huginn kill, we killed 2x rapier, vaga, eagle. You make a very good point here. You simply don't understand how well your post emphasizes the whole nano-problem. That nano rage pro and contra is the conflict between "have" and "have nots" in this game. The nano craze caused the situation that in order to be useful of any kind in small scale PvP (read fun PvP, because fleet slide-shows are anything but fun) you have to invest tons of ISK into the ship. Not everyone can do that. Many ppl will never be able to do it not because they suck in Eve, but because it's damn hard to accumulate such immense resources if you are not investing either tons of time, or some extra RL money (be it GTCs or other "utility" accounts) into the game. I will tell you about my main. I play since 2005, I PvP since 2005, one account, never sold GTCs. The most I ever had in cash was 1.4 bill (and it was some lucky shot, otherwise I wouldn't even come close) 1 bill in cash right now. 1.8-2.3 bill in cash and assets (roughly estimated). No steady ISK influx, that would allow me to throw away 300mill-400mill ISK ships. There will be no such influx unless I buy another account or open my own GTC shop. There are a lot of ppl like me. Current game mechanics render us nearly useless in "fun" PvP. The gap between the "have"'s and "have nots" should be brought under control or it will start hurting the game. I'm poorer than you and have been flying arround since 2003, but believe me that most of EVE's problems can be surpassed with simple ingenuity and wit. same for the nano-"problem" as you speak. the tools are there, and they are not that expensive. you just need to use them. remember that teamwork is essential aswell. --- planetary interaction idea!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.24 12:54:00 - [58] Originally by: Spenz This thread is class. Its fun reading all the nano-pilots, who used to tell everyone to adapt and stfu, get all up in arms about adapting themselves. Not only are they getting riled up, but they have taken to personally insulting anyone and everyone who opposes their viewpoint. Now I'm not for or against this nerf, but reading the hypocrisy in this thread is just grand. Adapt or STFU (yep I mean you nano-pilots). I'm nowhere near a nano-pilot. too expensive for my tastes --- planetary interaction idea!
Bigeasy Caldari Shadow Of The Light	Posted - 2007.12.24 13:04:00 - [59] Yeah some ships go to fast. I wonder if they will be fast enough to dodge the nerf-bat? Big Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula
Avataris The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.24 13:16:00 - [60] Edited by: Avataris on 24/12/2007 13:19:43 Its pointless arguing the pros and cons of a nerf on the forums (I know I have been guilty of this myself). The simple fact is that if CCP decide a nerf is in order then it will happen. It will change nothing. The people who are failing now will fail then as well.

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