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Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.24 13:38:00 - [61] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists funny how the nano and wcs problem equals, and the agruments are the same. Funny how WCS was viable for almost any ship/setup, and nano setups only work on a select few ships.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.24 14:06:00 - [62] Originally by: Estephania You make a very good point here. You simply don't understand how well your post emphasizes the whole nano-problem. That nano rage pro and contra is the conflict between "have" and "have nots" in this game. The nano craze caused the situation that in order to be useful of any kind in small scale PvP (read fun PvP, because fleet slide-shows are anything but fun) you have to invest tons of ISK into the ship. Not everyone can do that. Many ppl will never be able to do it not because they suck in Eve, but because it's damn hard to accumulate such immense resources if you are not investing either tons of time, or some extra RL money (be it GTCs or other "utility" accounts) into the game. I will tell you about my main. I play since 2005, I PvP since 2005, one account, never sold GTCs. The most I ever had in cash was 1.4 bill (and it was some lucky shot, otherwise I wouldn't even come close) 1 bill in cash right now. 1.8-2.3 bill in cash and assets (roughly estimated). No steady ISK influx, that would allow me to throw away 300mill-400mill ISK ships. There will be no such influx unless I buy another account or open my own GTC shop. There are a lot of ppl like me. Current game mechanics render us nearly useless in "fun" PvP. The gap between the "have"'s and "have nots" should be brought under control or it will start hurting the game. Its not so isk intensive as one might think, Huginn: 50mil all mods tech II: 20mil Poly rig + kinetic res rig: 50mil Implants: 3x speed implant (not snakes) 60mil This setup for me goes about 3.8km/s not in gang (navigation skills maxed) about 5km/s in a gang with damnation boosting with mindlink implant. Personally i also agree that faction pimped out nano ships with snake implants are overpowered, but i dont think that gangs full of people like this are something you see on a daily basis. Also in these cases i think the removal of all pirate implants from this game would have a better effect.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.24 14:22:00 - [63] Originally by: Drasked Also in these cases i think the removal of all pirate implants from this game would have a better effect. have to agree here. if they want to nerf speed, they better start with the implants first, because a non rigged, T2 fit nano ship with no sort of implants is actually easy to catch. --- planetary interaction idea!
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.24 14:23:00 - [64] Originally by: Grimpak I'm poorer than you and have been flying arround since 2003, but believe me that most of EVE's problems can be surpassed with simple ingenuity and wit. same for the nano-"problem" as you speak. the tools are there, and they are not that expensive. you just need to use them. remember that teamwork is essential aswell. Teamwork, creativity, a little bit of planning, all things that the whiners (not just related to the nano gangs, but just about every past nerf) have failed to try before coming to the forums. The amount of whining on these forums makes me sick. p.s. to the poster who told nano users to adapt or stfu, using nanos is in itself an adaption to the god awful blobs of thundering ******s people bring out. I have no doubt the nano pilots will adapt and the whiners will whine about that - pvp isn't and hopefully will never be as simple as 'bring the biggest blob you can and we're bound to win' -----
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.24 15:40:00 - [65] Edited by: Phyrr on 24/12/2007 15:43:43 Originally by: Spenz This thread is class. Its fun reading all the nano-pilots, who used to tell everyone to adapt and stfu, get all up in arms about adapting themselves. Not only are they getting riled up, but they have taken to personally insulting anyone and everyone who opposes their viewpoint. Now I'm not for or against this nerf, but reading the hypocrisy in this thread is just grand. Adapt or STFU (yep I mean you nano-pilots). Ive never flown a nano'd ship And tbh if one kills me it's my fault The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Dimitry Kalashnikov The Black Fleet The Cosa Nostra	Posted - 2007.12.24 16:05:00 - [66] Speed isn't broken, EVE Playerbase is broken. ============================================== The thousand ships of the Black Fleet Corporation descent upon you! Our Void L will blot out the sun!
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:21:00 - [67] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/12/2007 17:25:42 Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists funny how the nano and wcs problem equals, and the agruments are the same. Funny how WCS was viable for almost any ship/setup, and nano setups only work on a select few ships. As someone who used to use Nanoships, I have to agree with Rexthor Hammerfists. Nanos are the new WCS. I have done the old nano curse, which truely was the unloseable nanoship (Unless logon trap/lag or if you fall asleep) Check my stats if you dont beleive me. Lets be perfectly honest here. The Nano age is ruining the game. I have done nano ships/snakes etc etc, but looking back, can I honestly say they were fair fights? Not really. Sure I had fun taking on stupid odds, tanking dozens of missileships that do almost no damage, ninja killing a ship and making a run for it, but I think that the game needs to move on from this phase of "Invurnerability potion". Personally, though, I think nanos should remain as they are. But increase Web range to scrambler range, so people can get good fights. Simple change. Nanos will help those who want to zip around drop bubbles etc, Longer web range will make nanogangs obsolete. -- Billion Isk Mission
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:41:00 - [68] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/12/2007 17:25:42 Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists funny how the nano and wcs problem equals, and the agruments are the same. Funny how WCS was viable for almost any ship/setup, and nano setups only work on a select few ships. As someone who used to use Nanoships, I have to agree with Rexthor Hammerfists. Nanos are the new WCS. I have done the old nano curse, which truely was the unloseable nanoship (Unless logon trap/lag or if you fall asleep) Check my stats if you dont beleive me. Lets be perfectly honest here. The Nano age is ruining the game. I have done nano ships/snakes etc etc, but looking back, can I honestly say they were fair fights? Not really. Sure I had fun taking on stupid odds, tanking dozens of missileships that do almost no damage, ninja killing a ship and making a run for it, but I think that the game needs to move on from this phase of "Invurnerability potion". Personally, though, I think nanos should remain as they are. But increase Web range to scrambler range, so people can get good fights. Simple change. Nanos will help those who want to zip around drop bubbles etc, Longer web range will make nanogangs obsolete. nerf implants and nerf polys. problem solved for you guys. --- planetary interaction idea!
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:45:00 - [69] Ok game balance here we go: I take a Ishtar and put a Tank on. Another Pilot take a Ishtar and put a Nano Fitting on. First of 1o1 I can¦t kill the Nano Ishtar with light Drones, ohter Drones can¦t catch it. The Nano Ishtar can kill me with his Drones but I can kill his Drones and I can Tank as long I got Cap Boosters. One little side note I have zero Chance to kill it, he got a chance to kill me if i lost my Drones or Im out of Cap Boosters. Now other Pilotes come to help the Ishtar, Im screwed. Now other People come and help me, the Nano Ishtar can mostly get away. Now I attack something, It get reinforcements Im screwed. Now the Nano Ishtar attacks a other Target it got reinforments he gets away. Now I jump into a bubble Camp. I mostly die. The Nano Ishtar jumps in the same camp and with some luck he will mostly have a fair chance to get away. Hm now I looking for the advantage of fitting a Tank instead of Nano. Well best bet to get is a draw, most cases you get a Ship loose. WOW So where is the point of fitting a Tank today? All the Nano people complain nerf(not kill) nano Ships will reduce options in game play im right? Well where is the option and the advantage of tanking a Ship right now again? Im a bit sick of all this adept or die threads and omg my Nano got nerfed and I will have a fair chance of loose my ship now. If you can¦t see the imbalnce here you are blind or im yust stupid. Comparing the Nano fittings with old Stab fittings well in the End the Fittings do the same. Engaging or envade with low risk to loose your ship in PVP. Looks very simlar. Nerf Tank, boost Gank! XD
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:48:00 - [70] Originally by: Scott Ryder Originally by: Spenz This thread is class. Its fun reading all the nano-pilots, who used to tell everyone to adapt and stfu, get all up in arms about adapting themselves. Not only are they getting riled up, but they have taken to personally insulting anyone and everyone who opposes their viewpoint. Now I'm not for or against this nerf, but reading the hypocrisy in this thread is just grand. Adapt or STFU (yep I mean you nano-pilots). First of all i dont fly nano, what i think is funny is how the whiny little ****es (the non nano people) cant kill nanos, so they want speed nerfed further :) Haha, look at you go! What if people are tired of ships disengaging all the time. Are nanos unbalanced? I don't think so, this has no bearing on my opinion of whether there should be a speed change of some sort to encourage more people of "staying and slugging it out". We want more PVP in a PVP game and are discussing ways to achieve that end, yep what a bunch of "whiny little bithes" everyone is. Have I killed nano ships? Yes. Is the game currently fun? Yes. Is the game more or less balanced? Yes. Do I think the game would be enhanced* with less escapist nano ships? Yes. Maybe your right, the forums should be used to communicate with others in a needless condescending and disrespectful manner, and NOT to discuss ways to improve the gameplay. On topic: I don't think that the "blob" complaint is very valid. When you bring more people to get a job done, it gets done faster and more effectively. This EVE axiom applies to nano gangs as well as the rest. I personally dislike the alternative of restricting the number of pilots in a PVP fight (WoW), and I think most would agree with that. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus

Khanid Kutie I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:48:00 - [71] Originally by: Xiong Yoshi Time for Nano Pilots to start looking at how they will adapt, eh? Good. ever thought about the fact that maybe you should adapt to the nanos? they already got a nerf earlier this year, and now you whiners cant afford to fit a web to your setup, so you'll cry until its changed. Wait til we're all going 10 m/s tops and then you'll moan that we should be able to go faster. You cant always get what you want, but when you complain enough on Eve-O i guess anything is possible.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection	Posted - 2007.12.24 17:58:00 - [72] Originally by: Plaetean Originally by: Grimpak I'm poorer than you and have been flying arround since 2003, but believe me that most of EVE's problems can be surpassed with simple ingenuity and wit. same for the nano-"problem" as you speak. the tools are there, and they are not that expensive. you just need to use them. remember that teamwork is essential aswell. Teamwork, creativity, a little bit of planning, all things that the whiners (not just related to the nano gangs, but just about every past nerf) have failed to try before coming to the forums. The amount of whining on these forums makes me sick. p.s. to the poster who told nano users to adapt or stfu, using nanos is in itself an adaption to the god awful blobs of thundering ******s people bring out. I have no doubt the nano pilots will adapt and the whiners will whine about that - pvp isn't and hopefully will never be as simple as 'bring the biggest blob you can and we're bound to win' Easily avoidable forum topics make you sick? These type of statements confuse me. At least your not taking things too seriously over the Holidays. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
SiJira	Posted - 2007.12.24 18:01:00 - [73] warp speed isnt the same as regular speed Trashed sig, Shark was here
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.24 18:06:00 - [74] Originally by: Khanid Kutie Originally by: Xiong Yoshi Time for Nano Pilots to start looking at how they will adapt, eh? Good. ever thought about the fact that maybe you should adapt to the nanos? they already got a nerf earlier this year, and now you whiners cant afford to fit a web to your setup, so you'll cry until its changed. Wait til we're all going 10 m/s tops and then you'll moan that we should be able to go faster. You cant always get what you want, but when you complain enough on Eve-O i guess anything is possible. Ever thought about the fact that maybe you should adapt to post with a Main? Nerf Tank, boost Gank! XD
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 18:19:00 - [75] I don't want nanos nerfed - I want to go that fast one day please! Just introduce some more counters to speed. A module like a target painter that allows better effective explosion velocity, perhaps, to that going >4Km/s doesn't automatically confer total invulnerability to missiles. Pirate implants that boost tracking as much as Snakes boost speed. Something like that. Don't nerf a playstyle out of existence, but instead provide the tools to counter it. So if a Caldari pilot wants to compromise his tank with the EV boosting module, he'll be more effective vs fast ships. If an Amaar pilot wants to spend ISK comparable to what snake sets cost, he can fit a set of implants to help him wtfpwn the snake pilot. And so forth. In short: adding choices is better than removing them. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.24 18:35:00 - [76] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 24/12/2007 17:25:42 Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists funny how the nano and wcs problem equals, and the agruments are the same. Funny how WCS was viable for almost any ship/setup, and nano setups only work on a select few ships. As someone who used to use Nanoships, I have to agree with Rexthor Hammerfists. Nanos are the new WCS. I have done the old nano curse, which truely was the unloseable nanoship (Unless logon trap/lag or if you fall asleep) Check my stats if you dont beleive me. Lets be perfectly honest here. The Nano age is ruining the game. I have done nano ships/snakes etc etc, but looking back, can I honestly say they were fair fights? Not really. Sure I had fun taking on stupid odds, tanking dozens of missileships that do almost no damage, ninja killing a ship and making a run for it, but I think that the game needs to move on from this phase of "Invurnerability potion". Personally, though, I think nanos should remain as they are. But increase Web range to scrambler range, so people can get good fights. Simple change. Nanos will help those who want to zip around drop bubbles etc, Longer web range will make nanogangs obsolete. nerf implants and nerf polys. problem solved for you guys. Actually, I dont have a problem with Implants or polys. Increased Web range to scrambler range was the best idea I have seen in this thread, and one that still lets people nano as usual. I guess it would force the nano player to fight, rather than have a risk free battle. I sure as heck would have enjoyed that when I used to fly snake nanoships myself. -- Billion Isk Mission
X340	Posted - 2007.12.24 18:54:00 - [77] I don't see how speed fits are supposedly so overpowered, considering that (for example) an average tanked battleship can tank over 1,000 DPS when including resists. There's a lot of crazy stuff in this game. Speed is just one of them. It makes it fun.
GateScout	Posted - 2007.12.24 19:37:00 - [78] Edited by: GateScout on 24/12/2007 19:37:48 How about this as a compromise solution: Leave nano fittings alone, but boost webs by 1) extending their range and 2) rather then having a linear/constant speed decrease (the current web attribute), make webs have a diminishing effect the further out the target ship is from the web running ship. This produces a bit more risk for the nano fitted ship. If the nano ship wants to get in close (say within 40-50km?), there is a risk of getting webbed. However, the decreasing effect of a web would give the nano ship a good chance of escape if they are webbed at max range. So...in short: increase the range of a web, but decrease its effectiveness at long ranges. This increases the risk a nano-ship faces, but would still allow it a reasonable chance to escape.
Audio Bully	Posted - 2007.12.24 19:53:00 - [79] Edited by: Audio Bully on 24/12/2007 19:55:33 Edited by: Audio Bully on 24/12/2007 19:53:36 To all those who agree with the speed nerf have obviously never pvp'd or done very little. As someone quoted (being a smart ass) adapt or die. How about you adapt to the nano's. Or get half a brain. I tell you now, i haven't had this much fun in eve before. Before these 'nanofags' it was horrible to pvp, it was blob vs bigger blob etc. Epic fail. All these nerf's just push the game into the ground. At the end of it, eve will have become a planetside, with everything getting nerf'd to death that in the end everything was so boring and worthless, there was no reason to play it. (R.I.P Planetside) __________________________________________________ Great being Amarr, Minmatar, and Caldari isn't it?
Jesnen Amarr Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.24 19:57:00 - [80] I've started compiling a list of people who complain about fast ships: a. People who can't afford them. b. People who don't have the skills for them. c. People in big alliances who don't like people sneaking into their space d. People who lack the ability to effectively monitor multiple things in game, ie, distance, speed, orbit, drones, cap. Anything else?

Suggestion Box	Posted - 2007.12.24 20:24:00 - [81] Originally by: Jesnen I've started compiling a list of people who complain about fast ships: a. People who can't afford them. b. People who don't have the skills for them. c. People in big alliances who don't like people sneaking into their space d. People who lack the ability to effectively monitor multiple things in game, ie, distance, speed, orbit, drones, cap. Anything else? e. People who use drones f. People who use missiles Really, all these threads point to a few things, go minnie, go ship w/ neutralizer range bonus, go sniper or go home. How much variety is that? As far as point C, that's the point of cov-ops and recons (ships with cloaks maybe?), not speedy ships. By the way, once you get alot of people who can fly nanoships then you also have alot of people who can afford all these ships and their fits (and implants), you just have nanoblob vs. nanoblob, thus the blob argument isn't really relevant. You could say the same thing about capital ships.
Peoke Caldari Unknown Shoe Corp. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 20:53:00 - [82] ther were simple counters to warp cores. the scram and disrupotr. then they added the bubbles and dictors. then they totally made cores useless. the balance of eve is long gone with tomb. now its super nerf will the babies stop crying.
IHaveTenFingers Caldari ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.12.24 21:03:00 - [83] Edited by: IHaveTenFingers on 24/12/2007 21:03:32 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 24/12/2007 08:47:30 As it stands, Nano's are the new WCS and this should stop. A nano ship can engage Any Amarr BS at will, and it cannot lose - it can only win or warp away if the going gets tough. Tell that to the 3.7k nanocerb i shredded with my 'geddon. That aside, i feel nano blobbing needs a counter, not a nerf. (/me petitions for graviton TPs) Edit: Merry Friggin' Christmas -TF
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.12.25 00:34:00 - [84] I have 1 more thing to say.... HA! Originally by: Tarminic Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.12.25 00:49:00 - [85] Hyena, 2isk
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.25 01:10:00 - [86] Originally by: Dimitry Kalashnikov Speed isn't broken, EVE Playerbase is broken. QFT -----
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.25 01:35:00 - [87] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Hyena, Hah, you think a 10m ISK ship (you have infinite ISK?) that takes OVER a week to train for that can completely nullify a nano-ship's speed within it's effective range allowing your gang to 1-volley the 500m-5000m ship is a counter? Haven't you heard that nano-ships cannot be killed? Fun fact: for the price of 1 top end nano-ship you can buy around 200 Hyenas, go to a newb corp hire a swarm of players and pay for their training to follow you around for a few weeks in Hyenas. Nerfing speed is also a great way to encourage huge blobs. Whats more fun? Small gang warfare or EVE: PowerPoint
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.25 01:37:00 - [88] Just a thought here... and one that has come up before in other threads. Allow Warp Disruptor's and Jammer's the ability to affect MWD's, cutting their speed bonus by 50%. Warp Core Stabs would be able to offset. Taking the standard T1 MWD as an example, the normal 500% speed bonus would be cut down to a 250% bonus. Still over twice as fast as an AB, and a threat, but the nano ship would no longer be virtually immune to incoming fire. _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.25 01:42:00 - [89] Originally by: Selene Le'Cotiere Just a thought here... and one that has come up before in other threads. Allow Warp Disruptor's and Jammer's the ability to affect MWD's, cutting their speed bonus by 50%. Warp Core Stabs would be able to offset. Taking the standard T1 MWD as an example, the normal 500% speed bonus would be cut down to a 250% bonus. Still over twice as fast as an AB, and a threat, but the nano ship would no longer be virtually immune to incoming fire. you mean scripts? If so i'm interested in this idea. I have no problem with speed. I also have nothing against counters to speed which require a tough fitting choice on behalf of the counterer. Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
Selene Le'Cotiere Amarr I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.12.25 01:47:00 - [90] Originally by: Celeste Coeval you mean scripts? If so i'm interested in this idea. I have no problem with speed. I also have nothing against counters to speed which require a tough fitting choice on behalf of the counterer. Actually, scripts may be the way to go with this. _________ "Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told... I'm a daughter of the moon and a Goddess among men."



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