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Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:57:00 - [121] From exceprts of the last live dev chat it was expained CCP is nerfing speed via a stacking penalty. From my understanding of the woprding of that chat ANYTHING speed related take a stacking penalty. Now, while i fully support and agree that 4+ overdrive fitted to lows needs a stacking penalty, as do the poly carb rigs + overdrives. I do not see the need for 1 overdrive stacking penalizing your afterburner. Nor do I agree with Implants and implant sets taking a stacking penalty (snake set + overdrive = stacking penalty // Snake set + afterburner = stacking penalty) One overdrive gimping your afterburner as well as snake set gimping yoru afterburner seems a tad heavy handed and excessive. It seems to me that recent nerfs see to overdo it, rendering skill sets completly useless. I and many player are more then willing to adapt and learn new strategies. What I (and i assume are many others)do not wish is to suddely have 5million to 10million skillpoints (half a year to a year) become wasted time. If there was a way to spend ISk to re assign these points to diffrent skills I would be less bothered by such drastic measures. Then again.Live chat can be vague, and nothing is final untill that patch is released. So ill just hoped some sanity prevails and the stacking penalty is restricted to the overdrive modules and polycarb housings.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:01:00 - [122] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/12/2007 11:01:29 Originally by: L70Rogue stfu you have no idea. speed is ruining the game stfu you have no idea. Speed is saving us from blobs. Blobs are ruining the game. Edit: speed modules / rigs are already stacking penalized. Rifters!
Dravius Luxor	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:26:00 - [123] Note from a noob: Skill training is very important to me, at this early stage in my career, so I have to make careful choices... I was going to train for ceptors, and other fast little things as my specialisation... ...and then I got webbed at 20k on Sisi, and changed my whole playstyle. Now I'm training for a Machariel. I don't think speed is a problem tbh, when it can so easily be countered. To go any decent speed at all, you have to do without a tank - which means if someone slows you down you're dead. Anyway, I'm just a noob, what do i know? BUT - I do know there's no point in me training for fast, agile ships. At least, if I want to survive.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:30:00 - [124] Originally by: Wizzkidy Can we all not just get along? Anyway I will try to put my 2 pence accross and hope people dont flame me (nut no doubt they will) I don't think speed is a MAJOR issue but what I do think is the following. Frigs and Cruisers - fair enough let them do 10m/s+ thats fine BC's and BS - I personally think they can go too fast! I don't care how much money people have to throw at the BC/BS but they should not be able to go 20m/s that is stupid! This is my personal opinion on the matter I think you mean km/s instead of m/s, also bs going 20km/s is kind of blowing things up, bs cant be nanod so easely anymore, you will need to invest a ** load of money into it and even then its not even half as good as it was in 2006. This whole discussion is about cruisers doing 4km/s people think this is unbalanced. Let me tell you what is unbalanced; If nanos get nerfed my corp will fly strictly bs blobs with dura/gank/spider tank setups, and seen as where now all in slow bs we will not be able to move around as much and as far as we where able to before, also since where so slow moving we need like 10 people minimal (thats about 15-20 bs) instead of 2/3 (about 5/6 nano ships), also because where not stupid and we scout EVERYTHING, we will see everything that is coming from light years away so if we don't want to fight now, we don't, just like with nano ships, we will have the ability not to commit to a fight because we simply see what is going to happen. Now the fighting itself, since flying a bs is so god damn easy everyone in my corp will fly a minimal of 2 accounts in pvp, also with the setups i mentioned, if 15 bs all put a single remote large rep on the bs that is being shot, lol, try to break that tank. So summing everything up: We will blob more (more blob) We will be more careful in taking fights on (less fights) We will *you harder then before if we fight (more whining on the forums) All that i can see happening if they nerf nanos is that the people that used these setups will be ed off and the people that want these setups to be nerfed will find something else tho whine about because lets face it, THEY SUCK AT PVP.**
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:39:00 - [125] Id have to agree a bit with Drasked. The Nerf whiners never want to lose a ship. The Nerf whiners will never be satisfied. I wish the devs would look more at giving us players new skills/modules that can counter things like nano ships even more effectivly rather then making the skills of those that trained them obsolete. I may have mentioned this in another thread, but EVE has now way to respec skills. And time invested in skills no longer used is time wasted.
Aleranie	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:39:00 - [126] You are seriously directly equating speed with skill. You really do not have much of a clue. Feel free to bring your spider-tanking gang anywhere you care to. You may actually have to run the risk of being forced engage against someone capable of killing you when you run into a hostile force 20 jumps into enemy territory. Who wins after that is where skill actually comes int play. The whole thing where you can be 3/4 dead, webbed and scrammed but still escape because you still go over 1km/s with a web on you is whats going to get nerfed. It needs to.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:47:00 - [127] Originally by: Aleranie You are seriously directly equating speed with skill. You really do not have much of a clue. Feel free to bring your spider-tanking gang anywhere you care to. You may actually have to run the risk of being forced engage against someone capable of killing you when you run into a hostile force 20 jumps into enemy territory. Who wins after that is where skill actually comes int play. The whole thing where you can be 3/4 dead, webbed and scrammed but still escape because you still go over 1km/s with a web on you is whats going to get nerfed. It needs to. How can i possible be forced to take on something i dont want against peolpe that cant force nano ships to something they dont want?
Ari Chu Perkone	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:05:00 - [128] Originally by: Sarkkon I wish the devs would look more at giving us players new skills/modules that can counter things like nano ships even more effectivly rather then making the skills of those that trained them obsolete. Ok, what kind of module would you suggest would be able to counter Nano tactics? How about a highslot module that requires 200tf and 2000grid, activation causes all MWD's in the radius (20km) to become inoperable - activation cost is on par with a heavy repper. How would that sound to the nano gangs? Getting past a gate camp would be a bit more challenging then - but once they are in system they could still use their OMGWTFPWN speed to kill miners and ratters.. --- "The Galaxy is only as big as you make it." - presumably Eve Game Designers.
Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:08:00 - [129] Originally by: Drasked If nanos get nerfed my corp will fly strictly bs blobs with dura/gank/spider tank setups, and seen as where now all in slow bs we will not be able to move around as much and as far as we where able to before, also since where so slow moving we need like 10 people minimal (thats about 15-20 bs) instead of 2/3 (about 5/6 nano ships), also because where not stupid and we scout EVERYTHING, we will see everything that is coming from light years away so if we don't want to fight now, we don't, just like with nano ships, we will have the ability not to commit to a fight because we simply see what is going to happen. juicy targets i say! visit us in bwf sometime soon:)
Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:12:00 - [130] Originally by: Drasked Edited by: Drasked on 25/12/2007 12:05:24 Originally by: Aleranie You are seriously directly equating speed with skill. You really do not have much of a clue. Feel free to bring your spider-tanking gang anywhere you care to. You may actually have to run the risk of being forced engage against someone capable of killing you when you run into a hostile force 20 jumps into enemy territory. Who wins after that is where skill actually comes int play. The whole thing where you can be 3/4 dead, webbed and scrammed but still escape because you still go over 1km/s with a web on you is whats going to get nerfed. It needs to. How can i possible be forced to take on something i dont want against people that cant force nano ships to something they dont want? you can always set up some traps and nasty slings. and trust me if you come in bs and slow fatt as ships they gonna work:) perhaps you fall for a bait. perhaps we hide few jumps away in a system your scout missed. happens all the time.. just with the exception that you probably wont be able to get out of this situation again other than kill us or in a pod:)
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:13:00 - [131] Originally by: Ari Chu Originally by: Sarkkon I wish the devs would look more at giving us players new skills/modules that can counter things like nano ships even more effectivly rather then making the skills of those that trained them obsolete. Ok, what kind of module would you suggest would be able to counter Nano tactics? How about a highslot module that requires 200tf and 2000grid, activation causes all MWD's in the radius (20km) to become inoperable - activation cost is on par with a heavy repper. How would that sound to the nano gangs? Getting past a gate camp would be a bit more challenging then - but once they are in system they could still use their OMGWTFPWN speed to kill miners and ratters.. there was a mass increasing beam shown once as an 'in development' idea [graviton?]... would make an interepctor heavy like a cruiser while in its effect. And we all know how well fitting a 1mn microwarp to say.. a sigil works. think it was a mid slot ... but anyways. Would rather see things like this introduced rather then heavy handed nerfs.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:15:00 - [132] Originally by: Igetshotalot Originally by: Drasked Edited by: Drasked on 25/12/2007 12:05:24 Originally by: Aleranie You are seriously directly equating speed with skill. You really do not have much of a clue. Feel free to bring your spider-tanking gang anywhere you care to. You may actually have to run the risk of being forced engage against someone capable of killing you when you run into a hostile force 20 jumps into enemy territory. Who wins after that is where skill actually comes int play. The whole thing where you can be 3/4 dead, webbed and scrammed but still escape because you still go over 1km/s with a web on you is whats going to get nerfed. It needs to. How can i possible be forced to take on something i dont want against people that cant force nano ships to something they dont want? you can always set up some traps and nasty slings. and trust me if you come in bs and slow fatt as ships they gonna work:) perhaps you fall for a bait. perhaps we hide few jumps away in a system your scout missed. happens all the time.. just with the exception that you probably wont be able to get out of this situation again other than kill us or in a pod:) Is setting up traps for bs gangs so much diffrent from setting up traps for nano gangs?
Igetshotalot THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:26:00 - [133] Edited by: Igetshotalot on 25/12/2007 12:26:22 Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Igetshotalot Originally by: Drasked Edited by: Drasked on 25/12/2007 12:05:24 Originally by: Aleranie You are seriously directly equating speed with skill. You really do not have much of a clue. Feel free to bring your spider-tanking gang anywhere you care to. You may actually have to run the risk of being forced engage against someone capable of killing you when you run into a hostile force 20 jumps into enemy territory. Who wins after that is where skill actually comes int play. The whole thing where you can be 3/4 dead, webbed and scrammed but still escape because you still go over 1km/s with a web on you is whats going to get nerfed. It needs to. How can i possible be forced to take on something i dont want against people that cant force nano ships to something they dont want? you can always set up some traps and nasty slings. and trust me if you come in bs and slow fatt as ships they gonna work:) perhaps you fall for a bait. perhaps we hide few jumps away in a system your scout missed. happens all the time.. just with the exception that you probably wont be able to get out of this situation again other than kill us or in a pod:) Is setting up traps for bs gangs so much diffrent from setting up traps for nano gangs? yes! also if you remoterep the fight will be longer and much more fun:)
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:33:00 - [134] Originally by: L70Rogue Originally by: 3nkil Can you say BIGGER blobs? Currently in EVE you can take a light fast force and go on "search and destory" trips around space. Often times 40 + jumps just to find something fun to fight. You can do this because these ships generally warp fast, most fast, and have enough firepower to pew pew any easy prey. You remove speed from the game and all we get is convensional blobs. People will not go out with anything less than a blob because to do so would mean death. You run into a gate camp and you can not MWD out of it. You will need to slug it out. CCP please don't make this game ********. stfu you have no idea. speed is ruining the game same as he say, speed is not the thing that makes a small gang move fast (as speed on ship) but the warp speed which let you move very fast around systems and in and out on a target.. ----------------- fun little game: http://world7.monstersgame.co.uk/?ac=vid&vid=113097917
Bibi Minmatar North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.25 12:46:00 - [135] Edited by: Bibi on 25/12/2007 12:52:44 Dont give something that you can't offer...ccp pure crap if they nerf nano becuse the only option thats left is Blobbing and if you been in a larg fleet battle in eve you know its a lagggggg party. with nano its not that bad becuse less people use them well corps that dont have the numbers on there side,nano gang is really the only thing you can do if you dont have alot of players in your corp. Becuse you get killed if you run around in space with 4-5 BS. And to push and force even more players in to the blob warfare is VERY headless thinking of the CCP-dev-team becuse Eve today is not made for largescale warfare its a fact! and people that say other are to new in the game or never been in a larger fleet battle in game. I just cant understand why nerf nano when it must reduce server problems. And a very boring way to play eve is to lose ships to server problems is just a gamekiller..... SO until eve can run a fleetfight without alot of problems with 10-15 mins before you can see your ship and another 5mins until modules activates until that DONT nerf nanos becuse they are the only fun way to fight in this game ATM. Dont give me something that you can't offer! And nano-ships they are not overpowerd just bring the right ships to the fight and you will kill them. There are already counters for speed ships and nano-gangs in game as we speak. Use them dont talk **** on the forums. Some people use them but I'm sure people that talk soooo much crap on the forums never tested any of the counter ships¦or mods that can be used to kill a nano ship. You do have to look for them on the market people. I think this is the case for many people they dont know becuse they dont pvp they just type in here becuse they been killed once by a nano gang.
Gripen Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:03:00 - [136] All the nano defenders here are blaming some kind pvp losers who don't know how to counter nanoships but do not answer to people who can or do fly nanoship themselves and say they are not balanced. Answer to this guy please: Originally by: The Djego Ok game balance here we go: I take a Ishtar and put a Tank on. Another Pilot take a Ishtar and put a Nano Fitting on. First of 1o1 I can¦t kill the Nano Ishtar with light Drones, ohter Drones can¦t catch it. The Nano Ishtar can kill me with his Drones but I can kill his Drones and I can Tank as long I got Cap Boosters. One little side note I have zero Chance to kill it, he got a chance to kill me if i lost my Drones or Im out of Cap Boosters. Now other Pilotes come to help the Ishtar, Im screwed. Now other People come and help me, the Nano Ishtar can mostly get away. Now I attack something, It get reinforcements Im screwed. Now the Nano Ishtar attacks a other Target it got reinforments he gets away. Now I jump into a bubble Camp. I mostly die. The Nano Ishtar jumps in the same camp and with some luck he will mostly have a fair chance to get away. Hm now I looking for the advantage of fitting a Tank instead of Nano. Well best bet to get is a draw, most cases you get a Ship loose. WOW So where is the point of fitting a Tank today? All the Nano people complain nerf(not kill) nano Ships will reduce options in game play im right? Well where is the option and the advantage of tanking a Ship right now again? Im a bit sick of all this adept or die threads and omg my Nano got nerfed and I will have a fair chance of loose my ship now. If you can¦t see the imbalnce here you are blind or im yust stupid. Comparing the Nano fittings with old Stab fittings well in the End the Fittings do the same. Engaging or envade with low risk to loose your ship in PVP. Looks very simlar. I have exactly the same problem: I can buy a dozen of snake sets, I have all hac and speed-related skills maxed out, I agree that there is enough counters to them but I don't want to fly nanoship. And when gangleader says "assembling hac and recon gang with 3.5 km/s mininmum" I can't think a single reason why he isn't right and the gang of tanked\dps ships would be better. Fitting for speed in EVE now is a superior tactics. --- There is no Amarr problem.
Bibi Minmatar North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:16:00 - [137] Edited by: Bibi on 25/12/2007 13:20:11 Gripen do you really like to fly slow bs gangs and large laggy fights instead of speed? All people in the game cant join the big fights right becuse the game is not made for that atm plus its Very boring to be in the bigger fleets as they always lagggg... Dont fly it if you dont like it but dont help to force people in to something thats crap in the game atm and if you do agree about the counter's for the nano-ships why even says something as your ok with it..
Estephania Independent Political Analysts	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:45:00 - [138] Current nano trend is slowly making everyone who can't afford to throw hundreds of millions on modules and implants either to blob beyond measure, or to stop PvPing at all. Just look at any alliance killboard, the average setup cost of most ships is far beyond 100mill, in some cases much more. Stop PvP from becoming billionaire only activity.
Bibi Minmatar North Face Force	Posted - 2007.12.25 14:05:00 - [139] what nano trend Estephania??? people fly less nano now then before as its been nerfed before moste people fly tanked **** in pvp I hope you know that. And you dont need that much isk to fly a nano-ship you dont even need implants to fly it! moste people just listen to there fleetcommander and think he knows everything! he can never be wrong type of thing! well if moste people just stop the trust my Gangleader trend (he is always right) then you would not need to out blob a nano gang's you just bring the right ships to the fight end of story. I been in nano gangs of 7-8 people and we could not kill the amarr bs we attacked becuse he had the right setup we lost a few ourselfs and he was alone with 1 tackler that got killed veryfast becuse he could not fly his ship right and had a bad setup....
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.25 14:35:00 - [140] Edited by: The Djego on 25/12/2007 14:36:38 Originally by: Gripen All the nano defenders here are blaming some kind pvp losers who don't know how to counter nanoships but do not answer to people who can or do fly nanoship themselves and say they are not balanced. Answer to this guy please: Originally by: The Djego Ok game balance here we go: I take a Ishtar and put a Tank on. Another Pilot take a Ishtar and put a Nano Fitting on. First of 1o1 I can¦t kill the Nano Ishtar with light Drones, ohter Drones can¦t catch it. The Nano Ishtar can kill me with his Drones but I can kill his Drones and I can Tank as long I got Cap Boosters. One little side note I have zero Chance to kill it, he got a chance to kill me if i lost my Drones or Im out of Cap Boosters. Now other Pilotes come to help the Ishtar, Im screwed. Now other People come and help me, the Nano Ishtar can mostly get away. Now I attack something, It get reinforcements Im screwed. Now the Nano Ishtar attacks a other Target it got reinforments he gets away. Now I jump into a bubble Camp. I mostly die. The Nano Ishtar jumps in the same camp and with some luck he will mostly have a fair chance to get away. Hm now I looking for the advantage of fitting a Tank instead of Nano. Well best bet to get is a draw, most cases you get a Ship loose. WOW So where is the point of fitting a Tank today? All the Nano people complain nerf(not kill) nano Ships will reduce options in game play im right? Well where is the option and the advantage of tanking a Ship right now again? Im a bit sick of all this adept or die threads and omg my Nano got nerfed and I will have a fair chance of loose my ship now. If you can¦t see the imbalnce here you are blind or im yust stupid. Comparing the Nano fittings with old Stab fittings well in the End the Fittings do the same. Engaging or envade with low risk to loose your ship in PVP. Looks very simlar. I have exactly the same problem: I can buy a dozen of snake sets, I have all hac and speed-related skills maxed out, I agree that there is enough counters to them but I don't want to fly nanoship. And when gangleader says "assembling hac and recon gang with 3.5 km/s mininmum" I can't think a single reason why he isn't right and the gang of tanked\dps ships would be better. Fitting for speed in EVE now is a superior tactics. I posted this because I wanted to point out that fitting a Ship for Speed on a Ship that is smaller than a BS is in most cases simply better than put a tank on this ship. It realy kills fitting Options and playstyle. And it forces people to use Nano to even if they don¦t like it at all. All the Neut/EW/Recon/Nano/Overloaded Faction Web Tactics work against taked ships to and still giving the Nano the upper hand by a chance to escape and survive. While Nano may have reduced big BS Blobs it also has killed options to fly solo/small Gangs in a non Speed fitting. Nerf Tank, boost Gank! XD
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.25 14:44:00 - [141] "Nerf paper", said Rock, "Scissors is OK." -----
Gripen Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.12.25 14:53:00 - [142] Originally by: Bibi Dont fly it if you dont like it but dont help to force people in to something thats crap in the game atm and if you do agree about the counter's for the nano-ships why even says something as your ok with it.. I am not forcing anyone out of nanoships. I am even against any possible nerfs to snakes or polycarbons. It is I who is being forced to use playstyle which I dislike. The problem is that amount of possibilities speed fit gives is much bigger than any other fitting strategy. The problem is other races specializing on range, tank or high close range damage which can't realize their advantages. Originally by: Bibi as you say yourself you trust your gang leader so much how would you know ??? as you only trust 1 or 2 people and dont try stuff out yourself.... and thats my point you dont know whats going on if you done so you would know that nanos is not overpowerd! and they are not good in all types of fights but you dont know... Trust is a wrong word here - it does not require understanding. I'm agree with his opinion and if you think you know more just give a reason why you wouldn't fit for speed? Originally by: Estephania Current nano trend is slowly making everyone who can't afford to throw hundreds of millions on modules and implants either to blob beyond measure, or to stop PvPing at all. Just look at any alliance killboard, the average setup cost of most ships is far beyond 100mill, in some cases much more. Stop PvP from becoming billionaire only activity. I see it the other way around: more expensive ships force the people to accept the fights only when they are sure to win and that is where nanoships excel. It's ok and it's how speedship should work but the bad thing it that where is nothing you could gain if you fly a differently fitted ship. --- There is no Amarr problem.
Jonny JoJo Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.12.25 15:23:00 - [143] Originally by: Pheonix Kanan "Nerf paper", said Rock, "Scissors is OK." Rock paper Scissors are doing their thing. Then suddenly, Paper relises that it could break scissors if it fits itself with a Titanium coating. Scissors cannot cut paper then, best that can happen is scisses break, though if not, at least it will be a draw. Thats what nanos are. The New WCS. Refresh to see next Real Life CCP sig(16 total)
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.25 15:34:00 - [144] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Pheonix Kanan "Nerf paper", said Rock, "Scissors is OK." Rock paper Scissors are doing their thing. Then suddenly, Paper relises that it could break scissors if it fits itself with a Titanium coating. Scissors cannot cut paper then, best that can happen is scisses break, though if not, at least it will be a draw. Thats what nanos are. The New WCS. That's because scissors are too stupid to use a huginn. -----
Raneru Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.12.25 15:56:00 - [145] If speed is nerfed more (it was already done once) we might as well wave small gang combat goodbye. Generally, the people wanting it nerfed are the ones who spend all day ratting in a raven then expect it to pwn the same amount in PVP . Not everyone wants to fight in 200 man gangs of BS/Caps. It should not be a requirement for PVP.
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.25 16:25:00 - [146] Edited by: Pheonix Kanan on 25/12/2007 16:30:58 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Rock paper Scissors are doing their thing. Then suddenly, Paper relises that it could break scissors if it fits itself with a Titanium coating. Scissors cannot cut paper then, best that can happen is scisses break, though if not, at least it will be a draw. Thats what nanos are. The New WCS. Yet they sacrifice their tank and damage so they can choose the engagement. They give up an advantage in combat to gain another advantage in combat. What's the problem? Nano ships die. Just like everything else. Disagree as much as you want, but, quite simply, you are wrong. They aren't indestructible, they aren't godlike, they aren't cheap, and they aren't easy to fly. So in order to be balanced, shouldn't they have something going for them, something that makes them stand out from the rest? There really isn't a problem with speed, or nanofibers, or overdrives, or implants. The problem rest with the general lazy attitude and complete and utter lack of self-respect and dignity to devise a counteraction to the so-called "invincible" nano-ship. -----
Aro Tolan	Posted - 2007.12.25 16:32:00 - [147] Current "feature" to be nerfed: Speed Please don't nerf the damnation or Navy Augoror setups that can get like...100,000+ armor =P ------
Dillius Archania Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.25 16:36:00 - [148] Originally by: Bibi Edited by: Bibi on 25/12/2007 13:43:46 Gripen do you really like to fly slow bs gangs and large laggy fights instead of speed? All people in the game cant join the big fights right becuse the game is not made for that atm plus its Very boring to be in the bigger fleets as they always lagggg... Dont fly it if you dont like it but dont help to force people in to something thats crap in the game atm and if you do agree about the counter's for the nano-ships why even says something as your ok with it.. as you say yourself you trust your gang leader so much how would you know ??? as you only trust 1 or 2 people and dont try stuff out yourself.... and thats my point you dont know whats going on if you done so you would know that nanos is not overpowerd! and they are not good in all types of fights but you dont know... So instead of forcing people into blobs you'd rather force everyone to use a nano fitting? Yea, that seems like a good idea. You people are freaking idiots. It doesn't matter if blobs will come back, it doesn't matter if nano is "more fun". People should have the right to choose how they want to play the game without being instantly screwed because they don't fit to go super fast. That's what balance is. Balance isn't essentially being fair, it's making sure that no matter your playstyle, you can contribute something.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.12.25 16:43:00 - [149] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: Laboratus Actually, to stop a nanoblob, you need a bigger blob... Hence nanos increase blobbing. Or you could, perhaps, you know, have a proper gang instead of a terrible one? Last time I checked, ECM, damps, tracking disruptors, 'ceptors, Huginn/Rapier/Hyenas, spider tanks, drones, turret ships, tanked ships, logistics, intel, heavy neutralizers, tactics, etc seemed to work against nano-gangs. But of course instead of using one of the many available counters in game, use the most powerful one. Whine. If nano-gangs are everywhere, then bring some god-damn tools to get rid of them. Last time I checked, NONE of the above actually meant you won a fight with a nanogang of approximately equal size. They just meant you didn't get utterly slaughtered when engaging. The only way to fight a 'nano gang', and ACTUALLY get some kills in (and lets face it, a fight where this doesn't happen, isn't a victory) is to do the same thing, harder. Which is exactly the problem with stabbed up ship, and we're now seeing exactly the same whines. 'bring a huginn'. Yeah, but... no. Even your huginn doesn't win. It gets primaried. And dies. And then the rest of your gang dies. If you bring more huggins, they disengage, lose no ships, and accuse you of 'blobbing'. Nanogangs promote blobbing, because the ONLY way to have a decisive fight is to blob them. Or I suppose you could undock your ships into a fight where the absolute peak of success is that you do them some armour damage because they're gone. I don't mind speed and mobility being combat relevant. However we've had steady steps towards faster, and faster, and faster and faster. It's become too much. It doesn't need to go. I like the idea of having a reason for speed. However it VERY MUCH needs toning down, so nanogangs aren't the ONLY way to win a fight. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.25 16:55:00 - [150] Originally by: James Lyrus Last time I checked, NONE of the above actually meant you won a fight with a nanogang of approximately equal size. They just meant you didn't get utterly slaughtered when engaging. Isn't that what happens anyway when you engage a group of equal size and capabilities? If two equal ships with two equal fittings and two equal pilots are flying them, then the only determining factor of a win or a loss is the quality and consistency of their hits (which should be equal). Originally by: James Lyrus The only way to fight a 'nano gang', and ACTUALLY get some kills in (and lets face it, a fight where this doesn't happen, isn't a victory) is to do the same thing, harder. Which is exactly the problem with stabbed up ship, and we're now seeing exactly the same whines. So the outcome of every engagement should be the destruction of one side? There should be no running away at all? Two should enter the ring, and only one should come out? Originally by: James Lyrus 'bring a huginn'. Yeah, but... no. Even your huginn doesn't win. It gets primaried. And dies. And then the rest of your gang dies. If you bring more huggins, they disengage, lose no ships, and accuse you of 'blobbing'. Of course they primary the Huginn. It's the primary threat to them. But that doesn't mean there isn't a way to stop them. Use some tactics. Originally by: James Lyrus Nanogangs promote blobbing, because the ONLY way to have a decisive fight is to blob them. Or I suppose you could undock your ships into a fight where the absolute peak of success is that you do them some armour damage because they're gone. Blobbing isn't really an excuse anymore. EVERYTHING promotes blobbing, even bringing a ship promotes blobbing. It's quite a simple tactic that everyone knows, the more guns you have than your enemy, the more likely you are to win. Originally by: James Lyrus I don't mind speed and mobility being combat relevant. However we've had steady steps towards faster, and faster, and faster and faster. It's become too much. It doesn't need to go. I like the idea of having a reason for speed. However it VERY MUCH needs toning down, so nanogangs aren't the ONLY way to win a fight. It's true that the desire to increase a ships speed has greatly increased. However, is it also true that the availablity of counters has also increased. The new Ewar frigates seem very promising and I'm surprised no one has used them yet. -----

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