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Space in EVE doesn't feel like space..

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Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:52:00 - [31] I fully agree with the OP. At most times, the feeling I get when flying around is not that I'm in space, but in... something else which I can't describe, but it's not space. Sure, nebulae are cool, but in EVE they've been cursed by the Leonidas-effect, they are in every damn system, and you don't really take note when you see one. I can also agree that you don't really get any sense of the size. Yes, I know the Rifter is about as big as a boeing 747, but the sense of proportions isn't really that awe-inspiring. ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Special Menace	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:10:00 - [32] Agreed, space should be a lot darker place. While changing that, please make stars a bit dimmer too, atm whenever you jump to a new system/undock, most of the times you end up looking a star and which is rgb(255,255,255) and covers a lot of desktop and hurts eyes.
schurem Silver Snake Enterprise SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:10:00 - [33] space should be black with small pin****s for stars, infinite in number. This game is about a fantasy, the one you have when you look up at a clear night sky some ways away from major cities. As it looks now, EvE sometimes seems to be more like a submarine game. However, I still think EvE needs* more and better tactical warning sounds. <<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free* Or Die Trying* >>>>
Rigo Kajjar Rigo Reloaded	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:22:00 - [34] Edited by: Rigo Kajjar on 25/12/2007 13:23:29 Originally by: Kharadran Sullath I fully agree with the OP. At most times, the feeling I get when flying around is not that I'm in space, but in... something else which I can't describe, but it's not space. I once heared "neon advertisements in London mist" and I think that fits quite well. Seriously, drop the decoration nebulas in missions, they just slow down graphics. And space should be darker, not in bright candy colors that make it hard to see if a module is activated.
Marcus Ailichi Lonely Maple Prospecting Group Lonely Maple Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:32:00 - [35] Edited by: Marcus Ailichi on 25/12/2007 13:32:54 I'm not an astronaut, but I'm quite sure EVE space is about million times more interesting than real space. So if you wan't real space they might have to remove all the nebulae and 50% of the starts. Also you all seem to know what space if supposed to be like even though you've never been there which is kinda interesting tbh.
John McDuff Caldari Jovian Labs	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:43:00 - [36] Lemme take some stuff i'd love to see from a number of posts in this thread. For one, drop the damn nebula backgrounds indeed! In stead black space would be beautiful, maybe with some subtle light effects on ships and stations eminating from planets as well as the sun right now. And ofcourse stars, millions of very small stars, very much like you see on a clear night at sea. Keeping in the nebulas in some form would be good, but make them special, something to make a day's quest, especially when someone is new to the game. Make them grow when you approach the area they are actually in, and then make them span an entire constellation. Make it markedly different, hell even make it a tactical difference, with sensors and cloaks working in whole other fashions. In the nebulas make it as bright as things are now, on the 'voids', for lack of a better word - make it so dark that your ship is almost invisible apart from some subtle lights. This would also make certain places know for their beauty, or some other places for their lack of anything, ppl would need to take into consideration what kind of area they would want to start a long-running operation in. I don't wanna dictate what it should look like mind you, just attempting to sketch how much a more detailed and sober aproach could add. Also the warp tunnel thing mentioned would be a great addition to realism and believability. Seriously, the way warping works now is quite silly. People laugh at spaceships warping through planets and stations in the way we laugh about fairy creatures doing the macarena. Apart from that, it would add a host of tactical possibilities. A last thing mentioned here i'd like to point to is the planar nature of our space now. It would be a lot more interesting indeed if space was truely three dimensional. But changing that would be such a fundamental change of the entire game that i doubt we would like it to ever happen - that's more like a whole new game. --- "Everyone speaks of my drinking, but never of my thirst" Everyone can now start bowing down to me in an orderly fashion...
Mangala Solaris Caldari Sanctuary Aegis Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:45:00 - [37] Planets being better would be good. Missions in planetary orbit another good one. What I'd like for example is those planets with rings to have a choice of gaseous or rock rings, that could be mined and so on, replenishing as normal and such, rather than them being a thin strip of nothingness. Stations closer in to planets, stations at gates, part built stations and so on. Stations near moons - I know posses can go there etc, but even moons may be settled in the eve galaxy, or have stations near them for strategic reasons. "Busier" space - I think we already have that - Empire - especially around the hubs feels busy, feels civilised. Get away from there and space takes on a western frontier feeling that carries over really well - ofc most planets with populations will be in Empire "safe" space, so traffic there will be seen more. ------- Sanctuary
Miss Ore	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:50:00 - [38] /signed I always wanted to see those massive planets in front of our very eyes and then say "wow, I am in real space?"
Toxic Fumes	Posted - 2007.12.25 14:00:00 - [39] Can we get rid of the horrid red background in Molden Heath please. I agree, space is black and nebulas are nice if they are subtle, but the whole background in red?! More black gives the feeling how vast space is. Signed.
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.12.25 14:05:00 - [40] The thing is, we're so conditioned by tv and films and sometimes s-f that isn't researched very well, that we may have odd ideas about the concept of "space combat" altogether. (My understanding of it is that, in reality, it would be like - weeks of preparation, very boring, with the actual "battle" decided at the end of that preparation in about 3 seconds flat, and it would have to be done by computers, or at any rate some kind of processing, whether artificial or human, that's way faster than the human brain as it is now.) So given that the very concept we're working in terms of (i.e. the very concept of human "piloting" space combat) is unrealistic, and given that no space games deal with realistic space/time (e.g. flying between planets is actually flying between things that are themselves flying very fast in space, not siting there) or sense of scale (the vastness of planets, the vastness of interplanetary space, or the space between stars) it seems to me that in terms of aesthetics, we might as well go with what feels right and what's fun. For my money, I'd like to see "average travel" be in a space that's very black with millions of stars, and planets like X3 scale-wise and graphics-wise; but I don't mind the "boxes" in which we get some action in being pretty colourful and varied, probably more varied than they are now, with god-knows-what kinds of odd space objects floating around (nebulae, gasses, etc.). Freelancer was pretty good in this way. As some people have said though, the danger with the "colourful" approach is it sometimes seems like you're just flying about in a planetary atmosphere or (worse) underwater. (Freelancer was sometimes prone to this too.) Failing all that, there should at least be some sense that what you see in the box around you changes according to your relative position in space. Again, Freelancer had this right - there were objects in the background that got bigger or smaller according to which area you were in, and that did actually convey a sense of vastness, or at least travel through a space vaster than just a solar system. So that's it: default and average, black with millions of stars, but with spots of colour and brilliance. Oh and, definitely more sense of scale with ships - but that's a limitation I guess that can't be gotten around. To get that vast sense of scale you'd have to see more detail as you zoomed in on things, but that's obviously impossible with the kind of graphics technology we have atm.

Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.25 15:10:00 - [41] /OP Signed The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Aramova Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.25 15:46:00 - [42] Totally agree. As a matter of fact this exact topic has been brought up since I think Castor or perhaps Genesis, just shortly after the backgrounds were put in. There was a time when Eve was in fact black with only stars, and there was a bug a few patchs back (RMR I think) that sometimes caused the backgrounds to vanish and only the small stars that are from the new eve map would appear. Quite cool really... Down in 0.0 you could see what direction empire and the core of New Eden was, where in empire it looked as if the galaxy was all around you. sigh Anyway, /signed --
Pasha Cracken Caldari Thanos and Killjoy Productions Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.25 17:20:00 - [43] /signed great post! ----- Proud owner of infernal Gaming Community Click here! to view our awesome site! We support Eve-Online.
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 17:37:00 - [44] Originally by: DJ P Originally by: Neth'Rae And well yeah, the nebulas might be realistic if say the system is really close to the nebula.. But it's not gonna work in eve, because it's like; for each system you jump to it's close to a completely different nebula because the backgrounds are completely randomized and in different colors for each system you jump to.. A nebula isn't just a tiny cloud. They span hundreds and thousands of light years in size and as in my example if you are few hundred ly near they cover everything. Also wormholes do not connect systems linear. One system can be here, and the connected wormhole on the other side of the galaxy. And from there it's connection warmhole could be near the galactic core or on the other side. They could be even on other galaxies the connections!! So stargates are actually wormholes? Looking at the starmap however, it looks quite linear to me :D Some jumps go across several other systems, but mostly it's just linear jumps from systems close to each other.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.25 17:44:00 - [45] /signed Well thought out, I hope someone actually reads this and comments. I miss the days of old where we would get at least SOME feedback on player ideas. ________
AK Archangel Warhamsters Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.25 17:45:00 - [46] Edited by: AK Archangel on 25/12/2007 17:44:48 /signed
Gradinger Todmacher	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:10:00 - [47] good post from the beginning i hope one day eve's background would reflect the depth of space and may even get a meaning...
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:25:00 - [48] /Signed I would add this: Ambient Light & Contrast Right now the ships are receiving nearly as much light from the nebula sky-box. This is taking away from the contrast visually associated with space and taking away from the effects of shadows creeping up on the ship and the cool ship window lights. Following this... if you are behind a planet blocking the star the scene should be VERY dark, and no effects from the sun should be present. But currently, you can see all refections that should be occluded by the planet or station. Planets should cast shadows. I realize there are some technical challenges to this, but regardless of the reason, the visual sufferes currently. Still, you guys rock CCP!!!! ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
Karentaki Gallente federation navy taskforce	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:54:00 - [49] I also agree fully with the op - EVE needs to look more space-like ======
Lewis Breaker	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:16:00 - [50] I think they could improve how the ships move through space, it feels like they are submarines or boats. Surely a spacecraft would have thrusters so that it could strafe and do more complicated flying maneuvers.

Zeskar	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:19:00 - [51] /agree
Master Randolf Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:24:00 - [52] I would like to see bigger ships and cruiser that are actually smaller then battleships and bigger planets would be great to and yea that nebula idea is good to
Gosh Krux	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:41:00 - [53] I 3/4 agree. Yes space needs to be emptier, but not TOO much. Space is rather colorful in spots, but i certainly agree that every system should not be jam packed with novas as they are now. And wow the whole warping though planets thing needs to go lol. Total immersion breaker. Wife "Wow hun this game looks amazing!" Me "I know right? Check out what it looks like when I warp.." Wife "That's really neat I like the... did you just pass directly though a planet?" Me "Uh yea, apparently warp makes you non-corporeal or something..."
Mr McCargo The Paradox Continium	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:55:00 - [54] /signed - Mr C
Lucias Trask Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 20:08:00 - [55] /signed Especially things like the EVE Gate. If you could see it from multiple systems away and as you got closer and closer the blackness of space would start to thin out with the gas and dust that was blasted outward by the collapse until finally there it is in all its roiling beauty. It would be epic. Same with the great black spaces in the eve galaxy, why whould the systems on the edge of the great voids be surrounded in clouds? It would be interesting to see EVE take an approach similar to real space where as you jump around you see nebula, supernova remenants and what not as closer and further away as you travel. Then you could say things like, "Its the gate closest to the big crab looking nebula, just keep heading that way. When it fills the sky, you're there." And the galactic core should look like the galactic core, with gas clouds and black holes and all the interstellar players involved changing positions as you jump from system to system but always being there in that region. 0.0 space should be relativeley black and empty like our area of real space. But you should be able to see the curve of the galactic center like our milky way line out on the ocean. Its so bright it literally does look like a wash across the sky when viewed from a darkened aircraft cqarrier in the middle of the pacific. If the environment was one solid area and not just candy nebula after candy nebula, it would be much more impressive. If anyone ever wants to see space fantasy images like what I would like to see in EVE just go to artofgregmartin.com Maybe the Devs can hire him to create the EVE galaxy [PANIC]
Druadan Gallente Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.25 20:12:00 - [56] /signed like a signing machine designed and constructed by Mr Signing, Third Earl of Signington, having graduated from the University of Signed with a doctorate in Signedonomics. Eve space feels more like I'm in a submarine than a spaceship, and people are dropping paint depth-charges into the water to add colour.
Ruhige Schmerz E.M.P. Industries	Posted - 2007.12.25 20:13:00 - [57] They could do with more environmental effects both permanent and transitory, definitely. One of the cooler things planetside did after about 2 or so years was to add 'realistic' weather to the various continents. Weather patterns (thunderstorms, dust storms) would appear on one side of the map and slowly move across it. There were bugs with the graphics at times but it was a really cool concept and something eve could consider implementing, as well as some stationary effects/areas. The only thing I've seen remotely like it is the Recon 3/3 mission where you're flying in some kind of "space storm" that occasionally does some damage to the ship, no graphics of course except for the 'background' but it was still cooler than empty space.
Commodore Andrews Golden Goose Inc	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:00:00 - [58] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Neth'Rae Screens for those who hasn't seen: One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Holy crap those look awesome and def. more spcae like then EvE does. CCP really NEEDS to make space look like this in EVE, forget about the ships and "BALANCING". I think we should "balance" EvE with other space game graphics =] "Discussing moderation is a violation of the forum rules." <--- Ummmm I thought forums were BUILT for discussing?
Jawas Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:57:00 - [59] I'd agree that less is more in this case. Also a beneficial aspect would be that clientside lag due to texture loading etc would be reduced. Even if it was a switch on the options screen to turn off or limit nebulae effects. The existing nebulae are just variations on a theme. one is red, the other green etc but basically, the background is much the same. The problem is that it often interferes with the modules and can cause confusion as to whether the module is offline or not, sometimes whether it is active or not. Certainly the overview is affected by some of the bright areas and you have to turn the camera away to even see what is on the overview. No, this is not a feature that allows people to attack from the lighted areas. In reality, who would design a HUD whish allows this to happen? The overview would be allowed to become solid to prevent this, even by pinning it. Attacking out of the sun was a tactic in World war dogfights, does anyone really think it would not have been countered by now (given that Eve is so many years into the future)? -- Sig design in training: Remaining time 30 years 20 days, 4 hours, 10 mins, 15 seconds.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.25 22:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Aramova Totally agree. As a matter of fact this exact topic has been brought up since I think Castor or perhaps Genesis, just shortly after the backgrounds were put in. There was a time when Eve was in fact black with only stars, and there was a bug a few patchs back (RMR I think) that sometimes caused the backgrounds to vanish and only the small stars that are from the new eve map would appear. Quite cool really... Down in 0.0 you could see what direction empire and the core of New Eden was, where in empire it looked as if the galaxy was all around you. sigh Anyway, /signed damn that sounds awesome /signed and also not so static asteroid belts, that semi-circle shape and all the roids just sitting there nice and still gets a bit boring. mining needs one hell of a revamp anyways, and not the well im going to watch tv now, oh and mine too. (i could argue that missions are much the same as well)



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