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Space in EVE doesn't feel like space..

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Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:11:00 - [1] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:15:25 The only time I feel like I'm in space is when I look at the starmap, because it makes the world feel a universe.. Otherwise it's just like I'm floating around in a giantbox and I think alot of people agree.. It's like a huge room with nebula wallpaper and my ship is just a little toy, warping around to these floating objects.. A lot of games have a huge advantage over EVE and that's the environment, it changes depending on where you go and it's fun to explore.. Now I'm not saying the environment in EVE doesn't change, it's just that there's no point warping around exploring for the sake of experiencing new environments. Basically everything continues in the same pattern with some minor variety, It's not like I sit down and wonder what it looks like 10 jumps away, I know it will be the same thing with stations, belts and this nebula wallpaper. Now I remember Freelancer and how fun it was to explore, basically because things were different and you'd find new things, though you also you controlled the ship in realtime and for obvious reasons that will (probably) never be possible in EVE.. So now I wonder what CCP will do with the graphics update comming next to keep space interesting.. And I sure as hell hope you guys aren't just making new Nebula backgrounds, geez I'm really tired at those, if space was mostly black without nebula clouds everywhere it would make the environment more interesting because once you'd see a nebula cloud you'd probably think it was pretty cool.. Less is more and I wish the devs would understand that, at the moment every system is so unqiue that being unique isn't unique at all and the backgrounds get dull.. I wasn't playing eve at that time but I've heard there was a bug that removed the nebula backgrounds and people rejoiced. :D So will we ever see the vast dark empty space.. In trinity a star was added which can be seen from all over EVE and has everyone wondering what it is.. People even try to fly towards it just for fun, that's how exploration should be, more using your eyes than scanning.. Imagine if space was totally black and you'd warp into a system where you could see some kind of distant gascloud sitting in space among a thousands of stars, you'd sure get interested and wonder what it was.. Now, here I present to you my list of things to improve space: Dark space - Space should be black and filled with stars. Nebula backgrounds should be rare and pretty small, maybe based on how close the system is to it so when you warp to another system it gets bigger or smaller.. No over-use of clouds in the background. Larger planets - Planets should be really HUGE, and stations orbiting them should be doing so at a closer distance, basically the planet should cover more than the entire screen when you look at it.. It's a good way to provide more dynamic environments with a huge shiny planet instead of a static nebula wallpaper. That way you'd get an enviroment change if you'd warp to another planet.. No more "dead" space.. The majority of Missions, belts, stations and most things in the game should be close to a celestial object like a moon or a planet, most planets(irl) are pretty huge so there would be alot of room for things orbiting around it at various distances.. Basically there should always be something to look at as some sort of reference to what size and at what distance things are.. Warptunnels The warptunnels should bend around planets and objects. Would certainly look cool if you warped towards a planet and then the tunnel bent itself around it, with your ship cruising close to it's atmosphere. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:14:00 - [2] /signed - DesuSigs
Mallikan Gallente Spartan Hoplites Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:19:00 - [3] Some nebulae would be cool, but not the crazy amount currently in EVE. So yeah, I agree. --- lol.. I messed up.
Azrael Maxim Flexible Demeanour	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:22:00 - [4] Agree
Kessiaan	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:22:00 - [5] I always figured the deal with the backgrounds was that you're getting an 'enhanced' feed from your camera drones that shows a lot stuff that's not visible to the naked eye. But yes, black space would be nice. ----- My in Eve Profile
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:28:00 - [6] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:30:34 Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:29:45 Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:29:19 I can also add that I was really inspired by the planets in X3: Reunion. I saw someone make a reference to it and linking some screens on the forums when discussing planets and it looks really amazing, the backgrounds still look really busy but at least it's a bit discreet.. I realized the importance of being near a celestial object though. When I look at the screens it really feels alot like space and gives that extra feel for how large and vast space is. Screens for those who hasn't seen: One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Smakko Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:30:00 - [7] I disagree. Space is not empty, and the reason most of it appears to be without color is because our visual sense only perceives a small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. It makes more sense that in the future, from the helm of a great machine that extends and enhances our capabilities and senses, that we would see space very differently from how we perceive it, today. Just as a microscope or telescope allows us to see things in new ways, biological enhancements, cybernetic upgrades, or other enhancements to our physical bodies will give us a different way to see the world around us.
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:38:00 - [8] Originally by: Smakko ... the reason most of it appears to be without color is because our visual sense only perceives a small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. It makes more sense that in the future, from the helm of a great machine that extends and enhances our capabilities and senses, that we would see space very differently from how we perceive it, today. Yes, but that's not really relevant to us because of our perception of space(irl) at the moment. Even though I doubt that's the explanation behind it, I don't think it's a good argument. We as human beings can only relate to things we have a certain perception of. So for example, saying "this is what egg and bacon taste like in the future.." isn't really gonna make us relate it to egg and bacon anyways unless it taste like the bacon and egg we know of. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:42:00 - [9] I agree with the how fun it was to explore freelancer the first time. I've still got it installed on my PC... lol. But yeah, more flying around and finding things that are unexpected would be cool, not just the same stations, belts, deadspace depots (which i never seem to be in the right ship type for), and all that stuff ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :)
Smakko Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.25 08:00:00 - [10] Originally by: Neth'Rae Yes, but that's not really relevant to us because of our perception of space(irl) at the moment. Have you ever seen a nebula with the naked eye? Did you know that the pictures that NASA and other international space agencies publish of astronomical phenomenae is heavily edited and processed as to accentuate and dramatize the impact of the images? You say that you "doubt that's the explanation behind [the prevalence of nebulae in the game]," the fact remains that "our perception of space" currently is already greatly colored (look ma i make pun) by the application of natural-sense-boosting technology. Human beings can not only relate to things we have a direct perception of, such as things we directly see or touch, but also have a very strong perception of things that only exist in our imagination. Has anyone actually sent a satellite out to the edges of the solar system and taken a photograph of the entire solar system? No, and it is unlikely that a panoramic photo of the solar system will ever be taken, do to the astronomical distances involved. However, in our minds eye, it is quite possible to have a very clear and distinct perception of the entire solar system, moving in concert, constantly and dynamically changing. On one hand, I'm against what you propose because you're asking for a toning down of the look and feel of a game based on a perception of reality that does not have a basis in scientific fact. On the other hand, I'm against what you're saying, just because I like the look of the artwork, which has nothing to do with science, and only my personal preference for dramatic color over stark, black space.

Pharos Dei Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2007.12.25 08:50:00 - [11] completely agree with the OP, these relativly little things would make eve soooo much more appealing to people Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected])
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Smakko Originally by: Neth'Rae Yes, but that's not really relevant to us because of our perception of space(irl) at the moment. Have you ever seen a nebula with the naked eye? Did you know that the pictures that NASA and other international space agencies publish of astronomical phenomenae is heavily edited and processed as to accentuate and dramatize the impact of the images? You say that you "doubt that's the explanation behind [the prevalence of nebulae in the game]," the fact remains that "our perception of space" currently is already greatly colored (look ma i make pun) by the application of natural-sense-boosting technology. Human beings can not only relate to things we have a direct perception of, such as things we directly see or touch, but also have a very strong perception of things that only exist in our imagination. Has anyone actually sent a satellite out to the edges of the solar system and taken a photograph of the entire solar system? No, and it is unlikely that a panoramic photo of the solar system will ever be taken, do to the astronomical distances involved. However, in our minds eye, it is quite possible to have a very clear and distinct perception of the entire solar system, moving in concert, constantly and dynamically changing. On one hand, I'm against what you propose because you're asking for a toning down of the look and feel of a game based on a perception of reality that does not have a basis in scientific fact. On the other hand, I'm against what you're saying, just because I like the look of the artwork, which has nothing to do with science, and only my personal preference for dramatic color over stark, black space. I don't exclude any kind of Imagination or abstract thinking when I'm talking about perception.. Our perception of things is built on alot of imagination aswell and that's why it sometimes differ from reality.. Perception basically means what we associate something with, or well how we perceive it. My point is that space shouldn't be that much different from how we percieve it (what we think it should be) in our minds/imagination, because of some reason like realism or because it's like that in the future, what matters is what we think here and now. Ofcourse peoples perception of space can be pretty different and with a little imagination even wider, and I can't say that EVE isn't within it's boundaries, but it stretches them quite alot, at least for me. That's why I'd prefer it they'd go back and tone it down a bit, for that more spacey feeling.. And well I haven't seen a nebula with my own eyes and I think that's one reason why we should keep them rare in-game. I do prefer "less is more" when it comes to something you're exposed to alot. The most important thing for me is getting rid of this "boxed" feeling I get when undocking, with alot of nebula clouds you don't get that feeling that space is deep and endless.. It just looks more like a skybox to me.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Neth'Rae Now, here I present to you my list of things to improve space: Dark space - Space should be black and filled with stars. Nebula backgrounds should be rare and pretty small, maybe based on how close the system is to it so when you warp to another system it gets bigger or smaller.. No over-use of clouds in the background. Larger planets - Planets should be really HUGE, and stations orbiting them should be doing so at a closer distance, basically the planet should cover more than the entire screen when you look at it.. It's a good way to provide more dynamic environments with a huge shiny planet instead of a static nebula wallpaper. That way you'd get an enviroment change if you'd warp to another planet.. No more "dead" space.. The majority of Missions, belts, stations and most things in the game should be close to a celestial object like a moon or a planet, most planets(irl) are pretty huge so there would be alot of room for things orbiting around it at various distances.. Basically there should always be something to look at as some sort of reference to what size and at what distance things are.. Warptunnels The warptunnels should bend around planets and objects. Would certainly look cool if you warped towards a planet and then the tunnel bent itself around it, with your ship cruising close to it's atmosphere. /seconded.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Tugris Gautama	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:09:00 - [14] Have you played the first Homeworld? One of the things I liked is that the background would change to reflect the fact that you were gradually getting closer to the center of the galaxy. If they are to keep the nebula backgrounds for technical reasons, it would be at least a nice compromise if those backgrounds depended on your relative position in the Eve universe and not an arbitrary/random mix of color and textures like it is now. It would make the systems look less isolated, part of something bigger, and when going on a journey you could say "I'm going to that nebula over there" and see it getting closer and closer as you progress.
DJ P	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:37:00 - [15] I must disagree. If you live in a planetary system 200 ly from Orion Nebula, it will be HUGE. It will even cast shadows and brighten up the night like day. Our Solar system is bit remote.(Places on the Orion spiral arm) If we move closer to the galactic core, night doesn't exist actualy. Stars are packed close (in astronomical terms), wrapped in dusty clouds all over. Regarding the stations they orbit the moons not the planets. And it's not feasable to be placed in close orbit around a planet. Especialy with the mass they have, the amount of fuel to burn so they can not be pulled from the gravity is enormous. The only way to avoid this is high orbits. (Have you seen how small the Earth looks from the Moon?) Warptunnels should be placed where the wormholes exists. A warpgate is nothing more than a beacon of where the wormhole is. Merry XMAS
Kavol Valarius Amarr Unity of Honor Legion of Honor	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:45:00 - [16] I'm afraid I have to agree with the OP. Completely. I love the backgrounds but I'll be honest, they BLIND ME. -----
Emelia Brighteyes	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:47:00 - [17] Another prob is that there is no UP or DOWN in real space but in eve there is. I understand it for oreintation purposes but it also sucks variety out of the game as we can never properly fly on planets until that is tweaked youd be flying upside down on one side then right side up on another or planet would be to left or right. I was hop[ing they would fix scale in trinity but they didnt not only are actual hsip sizes still sort of badly made as in i think a bs with 5000+ passengers should be alot bigger then a 50man frig! And the windows also need to be fixed in scale like station windows are way to small compared to BS windows. Ok way of topic i know but pet hates :P.
BtHatch Boli Me Kurc	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:06:00 - [18] Agreed. In reality, only small amounts of solar systems would have nebula large and close enough to be actually visible. And i'd kill for open-ended universe without limitation of stargates. Stargates should be conviniency, not necessity:> Mmmm... player built stargates :>
Ix Forres Vanguard Frontiers Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:20:00 - [19] An excellent summary from Neth here- having played quite a few space games in my time (Freelancer, the X series) that is the one advantage they have over EVE. That and there's real density to space in those games- space isn't empty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_Medium). The clouds and such at exploration sites and deadspaces should not be one-off instances- such clouds in lower density (think system-sized versions of the current clouds) would help, for a start. Blog
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:22:00 - [20] Agreed. Ditching the candyfloss backgrounds is a common request. It's bad, it's old, and it needs replacing. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles

Lelulie	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:25:00 - [21] Massively agree. I had a friend watch me play eve a bit ago, I was in a systen with a cloudy background and he thought it looked like I was supposed to be in some planets atmosphere. The silly cloudy backgrounds of certain systems and massive nebulas everywhere put him off playing alltogether. Mostly back space with rare coloured space and nebulas would be much better.
Kw4h Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:35:00 - [22] Agreed here aswell. I suggest trying something like black space, and less ambient light on the test server for a day, and see how people respond. Would love to see how it would work out. _ Planet Sight Wallpaper - EvE map
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:44:00 - [23] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 10:50:55 Originally by: DJ P I must disagree. If you live in a planetary system 200 ly from Orion Nebula, it will be HUGE. It will even cast shadows and brighten up the night like day. Our Solar system is bit remote.(Places on the Orion spiral arm) If we move closer to the galactic core, night doesn't exist actualy. Stars are packed close (in astronomical terms), wrapped in dusty clouds all over. Regarding the stations they orbit the moons not the planets. And it's not feasable to be placed in close orbit around a planet. Especialy with the mass they have, the amount of fuel to burn so they can not be pulled from the gravity is enormous. The only way to avoid this is high orbits. (Have you seen how small the Earth looks from the Moon?) Warptunnels should be placed where the wormholes exists. A warpgate is nothing more than a beacon of where the wormhole is. Merry XMAS By warptunnels I mean the tunnel effect you get when warping.. And well yeah, the nebulas might be realistic if say the system is really close to the nebula.. But it's not gonna work in eve, because it's like; for each system you jump to it's close to a completely different nebula because the backgrounds are completely randomized and in different colors for each system you jump to.. About the stations in low-orbit, you're right.. but that doesn't matter in EVE where ships starts burning when they reach hull and your ship stops if you turn off the thrusters.. The coolness factor would greatly overweight any realism imo :P Originally by: Emelia Brighteyes Another prob is that there is no UP or DOWN in real space but in eve there is. I understand it for oreintation purposes but it also sucks variety out of the game as we can never properly fly on planets until that is tweaked youd be flying upside down on one side then right side up on another or planet would be to left or right.... Yeah that's actually the first thing I was dissappointed about when it came to EVE, I would add it to the list if it wasn't for the fact that ships arn't designed to be viewed from any angle.. and Neither are stations.. All designs in-game are actually based on UP/DOWN.. Which might be pointless to rant about because I doubt it will change, but having no up or down would greatly improve on the feeling of real space.. Might be cool if they made an option to turn of the "stabilize camera" so you could rotate it around and get that spacey feeling.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Dave White Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:55:00 - [24] Couldn't agree more. Originally by: Illyria Ambri Goonie posts are like coke... sure its entertaining in the beginning.. but the more you get the lower your IQ becomes.
Beor0d Congregatio Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:15:00 - [25] The only things i miss are bigger Planets and more dynamic ingame which means for me: More Ships flying around (NPC's) and doing several things and maybe belts looking different. _______________________ hmmm....
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Neth'Rae Screens for those who hasn't seen: One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Holy crap those look awesome and def. more spcae like then EvE does. - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:27:00 - [27] As long as your changes dont advesly affect performance of game id support some of those. However as i am currently running an experiment as to how long a 2001 p31000mhz 815 EP chipset can run EVE, (doing fine so far) i am warry of decreased performance.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:28:00 - [28] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 25/12/2007 11:28:57 People should also be away eve is not a fully galaxy. It is a cluster of stars god only knows where. Although I believe Point of No Return is supposed to be more or less the "center" or the known areas of New Eden. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:32:00 - [29] especialy the death space.. one of the very bad idea`s they came up with.. ->My Vids<-
Nemoss	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:42:00 - [30] Agree

Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:52:00 - [31] I fully agree with the OP. At most times, the feeling I get when flying around is not that I'm in space, but in... something else which I can't describe, but it's not space. Sure, nebulae are cool, but in EVE they've been cursed by the Leonidas-effect, they are in every damn system, and you don't really take note when you see one. I can also agree that you don't really get any sense of the size. Yes, I know the Rifter is about as big as a boeing 747, but the sense of proportions isn't really that awe-inspiring. ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Special Menace	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:10:00 - [32] Agreed, space should be a lot darker place. While changing that, please make stars a bit dimmer too, atm whenever you jump to a new system/undock, most of the times you end up looking a star and which is rgb(255,255,255) and covers a lot of desktop and hurts eyes.
schurem Silver Snake Enterprise SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:10:00 - [33] space should be black with small pin****s for stars, infinite in number. This game is about a fantasy, the one you have when you look up at a clear night sky some ways away from major cities. As it looks now, EvE sometimes seems to be more like a submarine game. However, I still think EvE needs* more and better tactical warning sounds. <<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free* Or Die Trying* >>>>
Rigo Kajjar Rigo Reloaded	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:22:00 - [34] Edited by: Rigo Kajjar on 25/12/2007 13:23:29 Originally by: Kharadran Sullath I fully agree with the OP. At most times, the feeling I get when flying around is not that I'm in space, but in... something else which I can't describe, but it's not space. I once heared "neon advertisements in London mist" and I think that fits quite well. Seriously, drop the decoration nebulas in missions, they just slow down graphics. And space should be darker, not in bright candy colors that make it hard to see if a module is activated.
Marcus Ailichi Lonely Maple Prospecting Group Lonely Maple Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:32:00 - [35] Edited by: Marcus Ailichi on 25/12/2007 13:32:54 I'm not an astronaut, but I'm quite sure EVE space is about million times more interesting than real space. So if you wan't real space they might have to remove all the nebulae and 50% of the starts. Also you all seem to know what space if supposed to be like even though you've never been there which is kinda interesting tbh.
John McDuff Caldari Jovian Labs	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:43:00 - [36] Lemme take some stuff i'd love to see from a number of posts in this thread. For one, drop the damn nebula backgrounds indeed! In stead black space would be beautiful, maybe with some subtle light effects on ships and stations eminating from planets as well as the sun right now. And ofcourse stars, millions of very small stars, very much like you see on a clear night at sea. Keeping in the nebulas in some form would be good, but make them special, something to make a day's quest, especially when someone is new to the game. Make them grow when you approach the area they are actually in, and then make them span an entire constellation. Make it markedly different, hell even make it a tactical difference, with sensors and cloaks working in whole other fashions. In the nebulas make it as bright as things are now, on the 'voids', for lack of a better word - make it so dark that your ship is almost invisible apart from some subtle lights. This would also make certain places know for their beauty, or some other places for their lack of anything, ppl would need to take into consideration what kind of area they would want to start a long-running operation in. I don't wanna dictate what it should look like mind you, just attempting to sketch how much a more detailed and sober aproach could add. Also the warp tunnel thing mentioned would be a great addition to realism and believability. Seriously, the way warping works now is quite silly. People laugh at spaceships warping through planets and stations in the way we laugh about fairy creatures doing the macarena. Apart from that, it would add a host of tactical possibilities. A last thing mentioned here i'd like to point to is the planar nature of our space now. It would be a lot more interesting indeed if space was truely three dimensional. But changing that would be such a fundamental change of the entire game that i doubt we would like it to ever happen - that's more like a whole new game. --- "Everyone speaks of my drinking, but never of my thirst" Everyone can now start bowing down to me in an orderly fashion...
Mangala Solaris Caldari Sanctuary Aegis Consortium	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:45:00 - [37] Planets being better would be good. Missions in planetary orbit another good one. What I'd like for example is those planets with rings to have a choice of gaseous or rock rings, that could be mined and so on, replenishing as normal and such, rather than them being a thin strip of nothingness. Stations closer in to planets, stations at gates, part built stations and so on. Stations near moons - I know posses can go there etc, but even moons may be settled in the eve galaxy, or have stations near them for strategic reasons. "Busier" space - I think we already have that - Empire - especially around the hubs feels busy, feels civilised. Get away from there and space takes on a western frontier feeling that carries over really well - ofc most planets with populations will be in Empire "safe" space, so traffic there will be seen more. ------- Sanctuary
Miss Ore	Posted - 2007.12.25 13:50:00 - [38] /signed I always wanted to see those massive planets in front of our very eyes and then say "wow, I am in real space?"
Toxic Fumes	Posted - 2007.12.25 14:00:00 - [39] Can we get rid of the horrid red background in Molden Heath please. I agree, space is black and nebulas are nice if they are subtle, but the whole background in red?! More black gives the feeling how vast space is. Signed.
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.12.25 14:05:00 - [40] The thing is, we're so conditioned by tv and films and sometimes s-f that isn't researched very well, that we may have odd ideas about the concept of "space combat" altogether. (My understanding of it is that, in reality, it would be like - weeks of preparation, very boring, with the actual "battle" decided at the end of that preparation in about 3 seconds flat, and it would have to be done by computers, or at any rate some kind of processing, whether artificial or human, that's way faster than the human brain as it is now.) So given that the very concept we're working in terms of (i.e. the very concept of human "piloting" space combat) is unrealistic, and given that no space games deal with realistic space/time (e.g. flying between planets is actually flying between things that are themselves flying very fast in space, not siting there) or sense of scale (the vastness of planets, the vastness of interplanetary space, or the space between stars) it seems to me that in terms of aesthetics, we might as well go with what feels right and what's fun. For my money, I'd like to see "average travel" be in a space that's very black with millions of stars, and planets like X3 scale-wise and graphics-wise; but I don't mind the "boxes" in which we get some action in being pretty colourful and varied, probably more varied than they are now, with god-knows-what kinds of odd space objects floating around (nebulae, gasses, etc.). Freelancer was pretty good in this way. As some people have said though, the danger with the "colourful" approach is it sometimes seems like you're just flying about in a planetary atmosphere or (worse) underwater. (Freelancer was sometimes prone to this too.) Failing all that, there should at least be some sense that what you see in the box around you changes according to your relative position in space. Again, Freelancer had this right - there were objects in the background that got bigger or smaller according to which area you were in, and that did actually convey a sense of vastness, or at least travel through a space vaster than just a solar system. So that's it: default and average, black with millions of stars, but with spots of colour and brilliance. Oh and, definitely more sense of scale with ships - but that's a limitation I guess that can't be gotten around. To get that vast sense of scale you'd have to see more detail as you zoomed in on things, but that's obviously impossible with the kind of graphics technology we have atm.

Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.25 15:10:00 - [41] /OP Signed The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Aramova Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.25 15:46:00 - [42] Totally agree. As a matter of fact this exact topic has been brought up since I think Castor or perhaps Genesis, just shortly after the backgrounds were put in. There was a time when Eve was in fact black with only stars, and there was a bug a few patchs back (RMR I think) that sometimes caused the backgrounds to vanish and only the small stars that are from the new eve map would appear. Quite cool really... Down in 0.0 you could see what direction empire and the core of New Eden was, where in empire it looked as if the galaxy was all around you. sigh Anyway, /signed --
Pasha Cracken Caldari Thanos and Killjoy Productions Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.25 17:20:00 - [43] /signed great post! ----- Proud owner of infernal Gaming Community Click here! to view our awesome site! We support Eve-Online.
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 17:37:00 - [44] Originally by: DJ P Originally by: Neth'Rae And well yeah, the nebulas might be realistic if say the system is really close to the nebula.. But it's not gonna work in eve, because it's like; for each system you jump to it's close to a completely different nebula because the backgrounds are completely randomized and in different colors for each system you jump to.. A nebula isn't just a tiny cloud. They span hundreds and thousands of light years in size and as in my example if you are few hundred ly near they cover everything. Also wormholes do not connect systems linear. One system can be here, and the connected wormhole on the other side of the galaxy. And from there it's connection warmhole could be near the galactic core or on the other side. They could be even on other galaxies the connections!! So stargates are actually wormholes? Looking at the starmap however, it looks quite linear to me :D Some jumps go across several other systems, but mostly it's just linear jumps from systems close to each other.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Admiral Pelleon Caldari White Shadow Imperium Burning Horizons	Posted - 2007.12.25 17:44:00 - [45] /signed Well thought out, I hope someone actually reads this and comments. I miss the days of old where we would get at least SOME feedback on player ideas. ________
AK Archangel Warhamsters Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.25 17:45:00 - [46] Edited by: AK Archangel on 25/12/2007 17:44:48 /signed
Gradinger Todmacher	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:10:00 - [47] good post from the beginning i hope one day eve's background would reflect the depth of space and may even get a meaning...
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:25:00 - [48] /Signed I would add this: Ambient Light & Contrast Right now the ships are receiving nearly as much light from the nebula sky-box. This is taking away from the contrast visually associated with space and taking away from the effects of shadows creeping up on the ship and the cool ship window lights. Following this... if you are behind a planet blocking the star the scene should be VERY dark, and no effects from the sun should be present. But currently, you can see all refections that should be occluded by the planet or station. Planets should cast shadows. I realize there are some technical challenges to this, but regardless of the reason, the visual sufferes currently. Still, you guys rock CCP!!!! ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
Karentaki Gallente federation navy taskforce	Posted - 2007.12.25 18:54:00 - [49] I also agree fully with the op - EVE needs to look more space-like ======
Lewis Breaker	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:16:00 - [50] I think they could improve how the ships move through space, it feels like they are submarines or boats. Surely a spacecraft would have thrusters so that it could strafe and do more complicated flying maneuvers.

Zeskar	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:19:00 - [51] /agree
Master Randolf Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:24:00 - [52] I would like to see bigger ships and cruiser that are actually smaller then battleships and bigger planets would be great to and yea that nebula idea is good to
Gosh Krux	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:41:00 - [53] I 3/4 agree. Yes space needs to be emptier, but not TOO much. Space is rather colorful in spots, but i certainly agree that every system should not be jam packed with novas as they are now. And wow the whole warping though planets thing needs to go lol. Total immersion breaker. Wife "Wow hun this game looks amazing!" Me "I know right? Check out what it looks like when I warp.." Wife "That's really neat I like the... did you just pass directly though a planet?" Me "Uh yea, apparently warp makes you non-corporeal or something..."
Mr McCargo The Paradox Continium	Posted - 2007.12.25 19:55:00 - [54] /signed - Mr C
Lucias Trask Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 20:08:00 - [55] /signed Especially things like the EVE Gate. If you could see it from multiple systems away and as you got closer and closer the blackness of space would start to thin out with the gas and dust that was blasted outward by the collapse until finally there it is in all its roiling beauty. It would be epic. Same with the great black spaces in the eve galaxy, why whould the systems on the edge of the great voids be surrounded in clouds? It would be interesting to see EVE take an approach similar to real space where as you jump around you see nebula, supernova remenants and what not as closer and further away as you travel. Then you could say things like, "Its the gate closest to the big crab looking nebula, just keep heading that way. When it fills the sky, you're there." And the galactic core should look like the galactic core, with gas clouds and black holes and all the interstellar players involved changing positions as you jump from system to system but always being there in that region. 0.0 space should be relativeley black and empty like our area of real space. But you should be able to see the curve of the galactic center like our milky way line out on the ocean. Its so bright it literally does look like a wash across the sky when viewed from a darkened aircraft cqarrier in the middle of the pacific. If the environment was one solid area and not just candy nebula after candy nebula, it would be much more impressive. If anyone ever wants to see space fantasy images like what I would like to see in EVE just go to artofgregmartin.com Maybe the Devs can hire him to create the EVE galaxy [PANIC]
Druadan Gallente Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2007.12.25 20:12:00 - [56] /signed like a signing machine designed and constructed by Mr Signing, Third Earl of Signington, having graduated from the University of Signed with a doctorate in Signedonomics. Eve space feels more like I'm in a submarine than a spaceship, and people are dropping paint depth-charges into the water to add colour.
Ruhige Schmerz E.M.P. Industries	Posted - 2007.12.25 20:13:00 - [57] They could do with more environmental effects both permanent and transitory, definitely. One of the cooler things planetside did after about 2 or so years was to add 'realistic' weather to the various continents. Weather patterns (thunderstorms, dust storms) would appear on one side of the map and slowly move across it. There were bugs with the graphics at times but it was a really cool concept and something eve could consider implementing, as well as some stationary effects/areas. The only thing I've seen remotely like it is the Recon 3/3 mission where you're flying in some kind of "space storm" that occasionally does some damage to the ship, no graphics of course except for the 'background' but it was still cooler than empty space.
Commodore Andrews Golden Goose Inc	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:00:00 - [58] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Neth'Rae Screens for those who hasn't seen: One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Holy crap those look awesome and def. more spcae like then EvE does. CCP really NEEDS to make space look like this in EVE, forget about the ships and "BALANCING". I think we should "balance" EvE with other space game graphics =] "Discussing moderation is a violation of the forum rules." <--- Ummmm I thought forums were BUILT for discussing?
Jawas Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.25 21:57:00 - [59] I'd agree that less is more in this case. Also a beneficial aspect would be that clientside lag due to texture loading etc would be reduced. Even if it was a switch on the options screen to turn off or limit nebulae effects. The existing nebulae are just variations on a theme. one is red, the other green etc but basically, the background is much the same. The problem is that it often interferes with the modules and can cause confusion as to whether the module is offline or not, sometimes whether it is active or not. Certainly the overview is affected by some of the bright areas and you have to turn the camera away to even see what is on the overview. No, this is not a feature that allows people to attack from the lighted areas. In reality, who would design a HUD whish allows this to happen? The overview would be allowed to become solid to prevent this, even by pinning it. Attacking out of the sun was a tactic in World war dogfights, does anyone really think it would not have been countered by now (given that Eve is so many years into the future)? -- Sig design in training: Remaining time 30 years 20 days, 4 hours, 10 mins, 15 seconds.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.25 22:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Aramova Totally agree. As a matter of fact this exact topic has been brought up since I think Castor or perhaps Genesis, just shortly after the backgrounds were put in. There was a time when Eve was in fact black with only stars, and there was a bug a few patchs back (RMR I think) that sometimes caused the backgrounds to vanish and only the small stars that are from the new eve map would appear. Quite cool really... Down in 0.0 you could see what direction empire and the core of New Eden was, where in empire it looked as if the galaxy was all around you. sigh Anyway, /signed damn that sounds awesome /signed and also not so static asteroid belts, that semi-circle shape and all the roids just sitting there nice and still gets a bit boring. mining needs one hell of a revamp anyways, and not the well im going to watch tv now, oh and mine too. (i could argue that missions are much the same as well)

Roy Boaz	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:03:00 - [61] Totally agree with the OP! Actually, Eve is a lot like Diablo I, a succesion of chambers. Exploration within one of these chambers (as it is done now) is like exploring a closet... Exploration should be going to warp toward a distant star without knowing it's name and sec status. Free space!! Maybe there could be a single gate in Eve slingshooting you in the middle of nowhere, and then real exploration, possibility to name a planet if you are the first to discover it, etc. The only way back would be to self destruct and return to your clone. Or find your way home. I am, like many tired of expansion which only had to complexity and nerfing. We don't need more stuff, me need new ways to boldly go where no one has gone before...
Kharadran Sullath Caldari Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.12.25 23:45:00 - [62] Originally by: Marcus Ailichi Edited by: Marcus Ailichi on 25/12/2007 13:32:54 I'm not an astronaut, but I'm quite sure EVE space is about million times more interesting than real space. So if you wan't real space they might have to remove all the nebulae and 50% of the starts. Also you all seem to know what space if supposed to be like even though you've never been there which is kinda interesting tbh. This is not about how interesting it is, it's about immersion. From this topic it would seem that EVE's version of space is not something that people can relate to, and you don't have to have been in space in order to roughly know what it looks like. Also, when you zoom in on your ship in space, the backgrounds really do look like backgrounds that are separate from you. This is not how it should be, take a look at X3, or hell even Freelancer, and you'll get my point. That is what EVE needs. ------ Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull** and troll. If you are deaf**, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
Dracon Zethera	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:15:00 - [63] Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:30:34 Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:29:45 Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:29:19 I can also add that I was really inspired by the planets in X3: Reunion. I saw someone make a reference to it and linking some screens on the forums when discussing planets and it looks really amazing, the backgrounds still look really busy but at least it's a bit discreet.. I realized the importance of being near a celestial object though. When I look at the screens it really feels alot like space and gives that extra feel for how large and vast space is. Screens for those who hasn't seen: One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight If the backgrounds in EVE looked like that it would be amazing. On another note I think there should be more celestial bodies in the universe other than planets, moons, stars, gas clouds, and asteroid belts. Other such features could be quazars, galaxies (small and in the background), some interesting visuals like a moon colliding with a planet (these would be pictures and not visual effects), solar flares, double stars (these systems are suppose to be binary systems) and other such nice visuals other than gas clouds and moderate it. If you stick every one of these in every system that gets boring to look at.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:15:00 - [64] AFAIK, Eve doesn't take place in space. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Biolaja Tista Gallente Soulbound. Tenth Legion	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:24:00 - [65] Well actually, space is NOT all black. It just looks that way from Earth due to light pollution. The view of space in EVE (both in-game and in screenshots) is what space really looks like without light pollution. It has nothing to do with what the human eye can perceive. Just watch all those BBC/Discovery documentaries on space for an idea. Not to mention, New Eden is a claustraphobic star cluster less than 200 light years across, likely near the galactic core, which would also contribute a great deal to the vistas. But I assume this wasn't always the case, from what some have said about a graphical patch.
consider telos Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:34:00 - [66] Edited by: consider telos on 26/12/2007 00:35:51 Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:15:25 Larger planets - Planets should be really HUGE, and stations orbiting them should be doing so at a closer distance, basically the planet should cover more than the entire screen when you look at it.. It's a good way to provide more dynamic environments with a huge shiny planet instead of a static nebula wallpaper. That way you'd get an enviroment change if you'd warp to another planet.. [/][/list=i] THIS.. Don't know why, but the planets gfx really *** me of more than they should. The contrast with the new shiny gfx make them look even worse. And yeah, the x3 planets is what I want. All the planets are golf balls in space in eve.
Eelo Saluz	Posted - 2007.12.26 00:43:00 - [67] Well I think there should continue to be skyboxes, with pretty colorful nebula 'looking' effects, but I think the effect should be the New Eden galaxy, where in 0.0 space you can see the galactic core, kind of a milky way effect. Signed on the rest though.
Earl Comstock	Posted - 2007.12.26 01:18:00 - [68] Originally by: Biolaja Tista Well actually, space is NOT all black. It just looks that way from Earth due to light pollution. The view of space in EVE (both in-game and in screenshots) is what space really looks like without light pollution. It has nothing to do with what the human eye can perceive. Just watch all those BBC/Discovery documentaries on space for an idea. Just FYI, most of those are false-color, showing various spectrums that the human eye cannot in fact perceive. Look at any non-enhanced (via false color) images from space and you'll see this to be true. It certainly looks closer to "all black" than it does to EVE.
SumDum AirHawk Alliance Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.12.26 02:31:00 - [69] Originally by: Marcus Ailichi Edited by: Marcus Ailichi on 25/12/2007 13:32:54 I'm not an astronaut, but I'm quite sure EVE space is about million times more interesting than real space. So if you wan't real space they might have to remove all the nebulae and 50% of the starts. Also you all seem to know what space if supposed to be like even though you've never been there which is kinda interesting tbh. Actually, EvE space is missing a lot of what makes real space interesting. In real space, planets actually orbit stars, along with comets and asteroids. There are meteor showers, solar flares and Van Allen belts. Objects in motion tend to stay in motion, and actually have mass, i.e. there wouldn't be any flying through planets for starters. Occasionally you find a Cataclysmic variable binary system where one twin is pulling stellar matter from the other twin star, which has to be an amazing sight. Also, all the stars in Eve seem to be at the same point in their main sequence, with very little variation in actual size. :yawn: There are things like the Kupier belt, full of ice, debris and planetoids. There is also believed to be a large Oort cloud going out to as far as 1ly from our sun full of crazy stuff. Maybe even what they call Nemesis, a brown dwarf or large planet that aggravates the materials in this region periodically and cascades our solar system with meteors and new comets, like the Pern novels. I think CCP has done a fine job at designing and making this a sustainable mmo, but I think a revamp of the entire planetary nebulae texture wrap really needs to be done soon. The addition of the "New Star", binary twin, whatever, has given me hope that they have plans to revisit the solar environment with a little more thought. I would hope over time CCP drops the nerf-bat, and gets some creative people at work on the immersive environment of Eve as well.
Karen Sarann	Posted - 2007.12.26 02:43:00 - [70] Agree with the OP.

Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.26 03:19:00 - [71] My hope is that any Devs will read this thread and see it as a wake up call.. Because there has been alot of focus on new content, ambulation, new ship and station graphics and most of all, balance. I just hope the gamedesigners at CCP arn't forgetting this.. And I've seen all these things being refered to by other players in various threads, the feeling of being in a box, the overused nebula backgrounds and the small planets. So my hope is that CCP instead of just make things better, they add more dynamic graphics and content.. Because the reason EVE is still alive and kicking is the playerbase which adds social, political and gameplay dynamics, now we just need the graphics and the rest of the game world to become more dynamic and immersive aswell.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Gealbhan Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2007.12.26 03:39:00 - [72] /Signed "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.12.26 04:06:00 - [73] Hold on a minute. Perhaps it is better to pretend this one out then trying to strive for perfect realism. Because Number 1. The things that we think we have down pat about the universe and the way it works/looks are going to be drastically different by the time we are dead. It may look the same, but the way we view it will be radically different. I mean, who's to say that we wouldn't be seeing a gigantic nebula as we pass through multiple star systems. I would actually say that we would have the background of space filled by a nearby nebula across the whole of eve. They are titanic, so big that it could take years of warping away from it before you would notice a noticeable change in size. We dont live near a nebula, so who knows what one even looks like when you can actually see objects smaller than suns in them. Number 2. If we are going to make it that realistic, lets get rid of the sound all together. I know half of you are going to pip up and say "I dont play it with sound because it is broke and I feel it adds to the realism of the game blah blah blah...whatever" I doubt a warp tunnel is going to look like it does in eve, I mean none of the planets and suns flatten out or anything, they stay the same shape. Most likely, warping would look like something impossible to imagine. Number 3. Its scifi a little bit of science blended with the stretching of imagination or "fiction". Its not law and never will be so loosen your imagination up a bit and have fun with it. It is a game. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.26 05:17:00 - [74] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 26/12/2007 05:19:09 Sharupak, as I wrote in my replies.. I don't care what's real or not, but what I care about is what you're saying "how we think space and the universe is and looks" because basically that's what we are after when we play a game with a space setting.. Now a gigantic nebula that would be seen from every system in the game would be realistic if you change the fiction to match it, but will we get the feeling that we are in space? Because that's what I think matters and not that there's an explantion for it.. My point: Black space with lots of stars makes space feel less confined and "boxed".. Even if scientist proved that space is really a babyblue box, I doubt anyone would make a sci-fi game or movie about it :D Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 05:47:00 - [75] Originally by: Neth'Rae Black space with lots of stars makes space feel less confined and "boxed". That's it right there. The current backgrounds look like walls, add gates and we have walls with doors. Space is big, not a fish bowl. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Missy X	Posted - 2007.12.26 06:02:00 - [76] The OP's post is the most true, most important post that has ever been made by a player in the history of EVE forums. Devs, please listen. Thanks.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.26 06:07:00 - [77] I demand that eve accurately model the weak nuclear force. -------------------------------------------- Threads are stacking-nerfed; the more posts you add the less effective those posts are. mooooooo.
Jeremiah Kane Demon Womb Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.26 07:07:00 - [78] Well yeah /signed. This is a very important suggestion and is an upgrade that is vital to EvE's continued success. Upping the immersion and seemingly releasing players from the confines of "box space" is a logical next step. Things like this, Ambulation and Planetary interaction are going to propel EvE into the history of gaming. Planets need to be more detailed, unique, alive and stations need a lower orbit. I feel this is very important. In an environment where everything is so empty and dead, it would be a nice touch to add some life and a sense of awe to some locations. Asteroid fields need similair love, rather than these rings that stretch around an invisible point, we need fields of epic proportions, we need dense planetary rings. All of these could constantly be on the move. We need more NPC ships and stations that maybe aren't dockable and aren't in these "orderly" locations. Maybe some stargates can look a little more unique and be surrounded by NPC housing stations all clustered together with a "project feel" or something. Eve needs character and it needs it badly, these ship and station upgrades are a great start, but now we need EvE to really come alive... Cheers Chris
Piotr Anatolev Gallente V i r u s	Posted - 2007.12.26 07:10:00 - [79] Edited by: Piotr Anatolev on 26/12/2007 07:11:15 Have been saying this for years. People s comments tend to center around PvP arguments though and not astronomy. Simplification due to lack of enough computing or network power would be one answer to why you dont see any of this in game. Simplification due to time constraints on development weighted against detail that will never ever be seen or appreciated by a Hollywood educated crowd that just want explosions might be others. Can you imagine a game like this that could actually convey and teach the unwashed masses something about the heavenly wonders that surrounds us through all of our lives yet almost none knows a thing about cus they re all mucking about this dustball with their faces in the dirt looking for something to beat up, hump or chew on?
Jeremiah Kane Demon Womb Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.26 07:12:00 - [80] Edited by: Jeremiah Kane on 26/12/2007 07:13:19 Originally by: Piotr Anatolev Have been saying this for years. People s comments tend to center around PvP arguments though and not astronomy. Simplification due to lack of enough computing or network power would be one answer to why you dont see any of this in game. Simplification due to time constraints on development weighted against detail that will never ever be seen or appreciated by a Hollywood educated crowd that just want explosions might be others. Can you imagine a game like this that could actually convey and teach the unwashed masses something about the heavenly wonders that surrounds us through all of our lives yet almost none knows a thing about cus they re all mucking about this dustball with their faces in the dirt looking for something to hump or chew on? This is all clientside and it's not about the game being pretty, it's about immersion and bringing the game up to speed with other space sims out there. EDIT: In other words; this needs to be fixed before other space sims get released and EvE falls behind because it fails to grab people through the use of an interesting visual world.

london Gallente Industrial Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 09:06:00 - [81] Originally by: Smakko I disagree. Space is not empty, and the reason most of it appears to be without color is because our visual sense only perceives a small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. It makes more sense that in the future, from the helm of a great machine that extends and enhances our capabilities and senses, that we would see space very differently from how we perceive it, today. Just as a microscope or telescope allows us to see things in new ways, biological enhancements, cybernetic upgrades, or other enhancements to our physical bodies will give us a different way to see the world around us. Very nicely put, I couldn't agree more. london: INCOA
Corewin Gallente Deathwatch Inc. Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.12.26 11:02:00 - [82] OP /signed I completely agree. It is the realism of EVE, if not how much CCP seems to strive for it, that makes this game worth playing. Many Kudos to the dev that takes a good hard look at this and starts working on atleast a few of the excellent opinions here.
VortiK Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.26 12:41:00 - [83] While we're at it, why solar systems are all 1 star systems when in RL ~50% are binary if not ternary systems (2-3 stars) ? What is a life, devoid of strife ?
Marcus Ailichi Lonely Maple Prospecting Group Lonely Maple Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.12.26 13:23:00 - [84] Nevermind what I said before, I actually also think there's something missing from eve space :) The planets just don't feel like planet, maybe this would be the right direction:
Zemeckis R	Posted - 2007.12.26 13:39:00 - [85] Edited by: Zemeckis R on 26/12/2007 13:39:19 edit: spelling totally agree with the op /signed oh and the above picture is the awsome win
MenanceWhite Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 13:55:00 - [86] Somewhat better collisions(hitboxes) would be nice too. Im really tired of my ships getting stuck and slowly waggling out of hollow asteroids/stations
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2007.12.26 14:00:00 - [87] /signed. This has been brought up again and again in my 2 years of playing and I've got to say, I've agreed everytime. Get rid of the Nebulae ... seriously. The planets thing (making them appear way bigger) is a fantastic idea. Add to that sense of imersion. Warp Tunnel: On a personal note, I hate the thing. The tunnel effect looks horrible and that stupid 'screen-shake' is absolutely terrible. Less of a 'warp tunnel', more of a 'debris flying by at high speed and hitting the shields' effect, imvho. And just drop the screen shake or give an option to turn the stupid thing off. _____________________________ Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
Jeremiah Kane Demon Womb Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.12.26 14:14:00 - [88] Edited by: Jeremiah Kane on 26/12/2007 14:14:08 I've made a post over in the right forum section. I've read through this thread and put all the ideas and some of my own into a thread that I will keep an eye on and update. This is our chance to get the developers to hurry this along. The thread is here
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2007.12.26 14:22:00 - [89] Originally by: Jeremiah Kane Edited by: Jeremiah Kane on 26/12/2007 14:14:08 I've made a post over in the right forum section. I've read through this thread and put all the ideas and some of my own into a thread that I will keep an eye on and update. This is our chance to get the developers to hurry this along. The thread is here Ah, good. Was about to do that for you. Linkages always get more clicks. _____________________________ Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.26 14:32:00 - [90] There simply isnÆt enough variety to the systems in eve. We are simply looking at the same system with different variables. One system will either have 6 planets or 12 planets, 4 asteroid belts or 7 asteroid belts, 2 stations or 6 stations perhaps a purple sky or a blue sky. I understand that this will be reworked in a forthcoming patch but at the moment eve can be quite plain. www.eve-players.com

Haididio Sieren	Posted - 2007.12.26 15:43:00 - [91] Signed.
Suze'Rain Caldari Atrocitas	Posted - 2007.12.26 16:05:00 - [92] looking at the OP and posters, I'm generally inclined to agree... and rather started thinking about what's needed. and the thing that's needed, most, is atmosphere, of the setting kind. I'd wholeheartedly support the "space should be black" feeling. personally, I'd love to see a lot less nebulae in the general systems, but have deadspaces come up as much brighter - as much as general space is nowadays. it would make the feeling that the deadspaces are pockets of gas or weird s***(tm) that prevent warping to, greatly emphasised. use of altered lighting in the deadspaces would also help create that atmosphere, too. imagine, if you could warp into a area, be it a mission, exploration, or whatever, and the gas clouds start to reflect light in, and the lighting itself changes, the sun fainter, the light tinted to the overall shade of the deadspace, casting a sickly, wan red or green tint over your hull... it'd make the deadspaces feel creepy, unsafe, long before anything shot at you, and at the same time make the backgrounds in the normal space feel less garishly technicolour. I'm looking forward with bated breath for planetary textures to be updated - I want to see planets that have clouds in their atmospheres, barely perceptibly moving over the surface of the rotating planet below... I want gas giants that have livid storms rippling over their surfaces, and moons that dont look like they consist of gollops of custard floating in space... sharp, inpressive textures would make them feel a bit less like baubles with no realism Id like to see asteroid belts lose some of their current structure... at the moment they're little crescents of rock, sort of planetary toenail clippings, floating around... it feels a little too artificial... personally, I'd love to see clustered asteroids, forming areas, like the belts are the remains of larger asteroids shattered apart, to hint at the violence of their formation. at the same time, what I'd love to see is someone in CCP sit down and go through each system, and sort out the planet descriptions, and locations. I'd love to see systems being given interrelations of what's out there. rocky inner, then ice worlds, then gas giants, or gas giants and rocky ice beyond, rather than the haphazard fashion in which descriptions and appearances are currently... I'd love to see some underlying structure and logic to system structure, just from a suspension of disbeleif issue. and that damn new blinky star in the skybox irritates horribly.... it's just a little too un-subtle. like a crowbar to the kneecaps...
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:12:00 - [93] Originally by: Smakko Originally by: Neth'Rae Yes, but that's not really relevant to us because of our perception of space(irl) at the moment. Have you ever seen a nebula with the naked eye? Did you know that the pictures that NASA and other international space agencies publish of astronomical phenomenae is heavily edited and processed as to accentuate and dramatize the impact of the images? You say that you "doubt that's the explanation behind [the prevalence of nebulae in the game]," the fact remains that "our perception of space" currently is already greatly colored (look ma i make pun) by the application of natural-sense-boosting technology. Human beings can not only relate to things we have a direct perception of, such as things we directly see or touch, but also have a very strong perception of things that only exist in our imagination. Has anyone actually sent a satellite out to the edges of the solar system and taken a photograph of the entire solar system? No, and it is unlikely that a panoramic photo of the solar system will ever be taken, do to the astronomical distances involved. However, in our minds eye, it is quite possible to have a very clear and distinct perception of the entire solar system, moving in concert, constantly and dynamically changing. On one hand, I'm against what you propose because you're asking for a toning down of the look and feel of a game based on a perception of reality that does not have a basis in scientific fact. On the other hand, I'm against what you're saying, just because I like the look of the artwork, which has nothing to do with science, and only my personal preference for dramatic color over stark, black space. And I just want for EvE not to look as a wallpaper on a kids bedroom. It's too much shiny, and for heaven's sake, the SUNs.. The Nebulas.. my eyes, most times i have to rotate my camera as not to face a sniny object to keep my eyes from leaking out.. What's with the shiny intensity, most of EvE players i'm assuming do have brigh monitors with great color schemes and contrast, no need to blind me with all the shine all the time. Occasional one would be nice. For the person posting this reply, if you want to see more "real" stick to the NASA pictures. Not have EvE look like a copy/paste nebula spam in ever system, like it currently is!
Xiarem Amarr The Ghost Works	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:20:00 - [94] To the OP Personally I think they've done a good job and my desktop fan which I use to stop my laptop exploding does a good job of simulating the cold of space as well. . "Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"
Arachidamia The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 17:40:00 - [95] Originally by: ViolenTUK There simply isnÆt enough variety to the systems in eve. We are simply looking at the same system with different variables. Definately. It's all the same and it could do with an update. I'm sure many of you have played Freelancer... now that game did an amazing job of creating vaired systems with their own unique features and landscape. I recall one system having a collapsed neutron star or somesuch... looked amazing. I'd like to see more than just aesthetic changes as well. I'd want to see cosmic clouds which prevent scanning. Or areas of deadspace to hide in. And then you could add unstable asteroid belts which can damage ships or radiation fields around cosmic anomalies. Some of these things are present in a few missions/cosmos areas, but it would be nice to see them on a larger scale with a real impact on gameplay. At the end of the day, space should be varied and dangerous. Right now it's not varied, and the only danger is that of other players.
london Gallente Industrial Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 18:44:00 - [96] You people are terrible, your going to kill Eve from an art perspective. The game has beautiful presentation and style and you want to get rid of it for what? Black space??? COME ON! london: INCOA
NightKhaos Gallente Seridian Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:06:00 - [97] Okay, I only just read a few posts in this but how about this: the CCP team develops a model of the galaxy and uses that model to base the background of each system, which means some will have prudy nebula backgrounds and other's will only have light from the sun and a few stars. Also, stars should be more varied, we should have some of the systems have neutrino stays, red giants, different colored suns. And if we actually make light orientation more realistic, with ships behind planets being complete black, and ships in systems with say a green star being tinted green. Also, I would like to point out that binary stars are actually a LOT more common than single star systems. EVE is good, yes, but it could use a bit of a work over, and to be honest, I'm happy to wait for it. CPU: Intel Core2 T5500 @ 1.66 RAM: 1024 GPU: nVidia GeForce Go 7300 GPU Drivers: 2.1.1 NVIDIA 100.14.19 Sound Card: HDA Intel Sound Card Driver: ALSA Version 1.0.14 Kernel: 2.6.23-gentoo-r3
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:48:00 - [98] Originally by: london Edited by: london on 26/12/2007 18:46:48 You people are terrible, your going to kill Eve from an art perspective. The game has beautiful presentation and style and you want to get rid of it for what? Black space??? COME ON! So make it optional, you can fly around in chewed bubble gum space, and I can fly around in boring space, silly me. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Angel DeMorphis Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.26 19:58:00 - [99] It would be nice if there were a "Turn off Nebulae background" option, just so you guys could try it and see how boring it really would be. You think it's dull and boring flying around space with similar nebulaes in every system? Try flying around with nothing but black space and stars in every system. I can't imagine how that would be better than nebulae. And as far as differences between systems. I've found myself flying around in the same few systems for a little while, then I fly somewhere different for a special trip, maybe from Amarr to Gallente to Minmatar space, and I'm like, wow, I like the nebulaes over here. It's sharper/better colors/whatever. To each her own, I guess. -- My sig taken from this site, so thoroughly explains the people I speak with on the forums.
Nethers School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.12.26 20:51:00 - [100] i really like the warp tunnel idea. Dont seem like that big a task to figure out an algorithm that finds its way from A to B without hitting C D E F G H .......

Erim Solfara Amarr House of Solfara	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:04:00 - [101] Edited by: Erim Solfara on 26/12/2007 21:04:34 =/ A new tool in the fight for balance?
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:23:00 - [102] Originally by: DJ P Originally by: Neth'Rae And well yeah, the nebulas might be realistic if say the system is really close to the nebula.. But it's not gonna work in eve, because it's like; for each system you jump to it's close to a completely different nebula because the backgrounds are completely randomized and in different colors for each system you jump to.. A nebula isn't just a tiny cloud. They span hundreds and thousands of light years in size and as in my example if you are few hundred ly near they cover everything. Also wormholes do not connect systems linear. One system can be here, and the connected wormhole on the other side of the galaxy. And from there it's connection warmhole could be near the galactic core or on the other side. They could be even on other galaxies the connections!! Eh, the largest nebula are a few thousand AUs across. Thousands of light years across, and you're talking galaxies. I do agree, we need black space. This game feels like I'm in the 1980s Flash Gordon movie... I keep looking for obnoxious birdmen with bad english accents.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:47:00 - [103] the nebulas cannot be removed from eve. they are needed to rationalize the screwy physics used in eve.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.12.26 21:53:00 - [104] Originally by: Angel DeMorphis It would be nice if there were a "Turn off Nebulae background" option, just so you guys could try it and see how boring it really would be. You think it's dull and boring flying around space with similar nebulaes in every system? Try flying around with nothing but black space and stars in every system. I can't imagine how that would be better than nebulae. Beauty is with the beholder, right? Once upon a time it was optional, although it was a bug, and it was good. Optional would be the best choice, if you think what we have now is nice, then by all means, use it. I and many others would turn it off and leave it off. What you or I or CCP can never do is make an artistic judgment for someone else. I personally think they are ugly and it breaks immersion, for me. But the other part of this, these nebulas and bright clouds and what not, it makes it difficult for some people to play the game. Lots of people could get more enjoyment if such things were simply not there or optional or the luminosity of that stuff could be turned down significantly. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Nareg Maxence Gallente Phoenix Wing Acheron Federation	Posted - 2007.12.26 22:01:00 - [105] I can kind of follow you on the candy backgrounds. It is just a bit over the top in some systems. More variety would be nice. Regarding curved warp tunnels, you do realize this will make warps take longer? Many people have stated before, that longer warp times are less desirable than warping through planets, although I don't agree personally. I think curved warp tunnels could potentially bring in a new tactical aspect to the game, where for example the ships in-warp agility affects how much you can turn, while warping. More agile ships could possible overtake you by being able to navigate a quicker route while in warp.
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:07:00 - [106] Originally by: Angel DeMorphis It would be nice if there were a "Turn off Nebulae background" option, just so you guys could try it and see how boring it really would be. You think it's dull and boring flying around space with similar nebulaes in every system? Try flying around with nothing but black space and stars in every system. I can't imagine how that would be better than nebulae. And as far as differences between systems. I've found myself flying around in the same few systems for a little while, then I fly somewhere different for a special trip, maybe from Amarr to Gallente to Minmatar space, and I'm like, wow, I like the nebulaes over here. It's sharper/better colors/whatever. To each her own, I guess. I'm not saying we shouldn't have any traces of nebulas or other effects in space, I just think black space should be dominant for most systems.. And to counter what you are calling "dull and boring black space" there should be celestial objects and some discreet effects present at most points were you warp to.. Maybe a the systems in a region could share a toned down nebula in the background like a landmark, and not like the way it is at the moment, it's way too random with every system using a different coloured background. Nebulas should be mostly distant and not "in your face" all the time.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Norian Lonark Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.26 23:54:00 - [107] I have to agree with the OP. While I find many many things interesting in eve, unfortunatly looking at the environment outside my ship isnt one of them. Please CCP do something about it hehe
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:11:00 - [108] Edited by: Xen Gin on 27/12/2007 00:11:43 CCP would do better to change Warp Drive to Hyper Drive (a trans-dimensional FTL drive could probably allow you to pass through objects)
Atomos Darksun Damage Incorporated.	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:22:00 - [109] Also, binary stars. The star systems in eve ATM go completely against the backstory, because stargates oringally had to be in binary systems. Now they don't have to be, but most of them still are. -----
Zelmor	Posted - 2007.12.27 00:40:00 - [110] We know very little about binary star systems to cover that, I think. Ofc. it could be made up, but it would cause the smart-asses (like me) to rant about it. :) However, I wish to see much more variety in EVE as well, let it be far-fetched for all I care, if it's neat. One shouldn't take any games for real, anyways. :) One thing is that planets and possibly stars should be bigger, they look crap atm. THey are these wee balls near the stations atm.. Should be upgraded to something more impressive, as both todays programming and the trinity engine allows such things to be done to the game. So thumbs up on the idea of 'revamping' not only the ships but the celestial objects, as well. <<< Don't feed the trolls!

Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.28 08:32:00 - [111] Ba dum-bump-ish Request signatures at EVE-GFX
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.12.28 08:36:00 - [112] it's a video game. it's scifi pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.28 08:42:00 - [113] Originally by: MotherMoon it's a video game. it's scifi And? It's not that immersive sci-fi, or well it could be alot better :) Request signatures at EVE-GFX
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.12.28 08:46:00 - [114] Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: MotherMoon it's a video game. it's scifi And? It's not that immersive sci-fi, or well it could be alot better :) sorry maybe I should read the thread :P I thought this was about how there is an up or, how you have a speed cap. I guess it brings up the question what does space feel like? I've had this one idea that eve could show an optional transparent star map while your warping, have spome come animation and angles dancing around to really show you how fast your moving and where your moving to. pink supporter! Future art director at CCP! or texture guy, either or :P http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Drop Was in class with these folks :P
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.28 09:22:00 - [115] Originally by: MotherMoon I've had this one idea that eve could show an optional transparent star map while your warping, have spome come animation and angles dancing around to really show you how fast your moving and where your moving to. A "fly-by" camera would be hilarous.. :D Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.12.28 10:17:00 - [116] Originally by: Neth'Rae Edited by: Neth''Rae on 28/12/2007 08:28:10 The only time I really feel like I'm in space is when I look at the starmap, because it makes the world feel a universe.. Otherwise it's just like I'm floating around in a giantbox or fishbowl and I think alot of people agree.. It's like a huge room with nebula wallpaper and my ship is just a little toy, warping around to these floating objects.. A lot of games have a huge advantage over EVE and that's the environment, it changes depending on where you go and it's fun to explore.. Now I'm not saying the environment in EVE doesn't change, it's just that there's no point warping around exploring for the sake of experiencing new environments. Basically everything continues in the same pattern with some minor variety, It's not like I sit down and wonder what it looks like 10 jumps away, I know it will be the same thing with stations, belts and this nebula wallpaper. Now I remember Freelancer and how fun it was to explore, basically because things were different and you'd find new things, though you also controlled the ship in realtime and for obvious reasons that will (probably) never be possible in EVE.. So now I wonder what CCP will do with the graphics update coming next to keep space interesting.. And I sure as hell hope you guys aren't just making new Nebula backgrounds, geez I'm really tired at those, if space was mostly black without nebula clouds everywhere it would make the environment more interesting because once you'd see a nebula cloud you'd probably think it was pretty cool.. Less is more and I wish the devs would understand that, at the moment every system is so unqiue that being unique isn't unique at all and the backgrounds get dull.. Oh and I wasn't playing eve at that time but I've heard there was a bug that removed the nebula backgrounds and people rejoiced. :D So will we ever see the vast dark empty space.. In the Trinity patch, a star was added which can be seen from all over EVE and now has everyone wondering what it is.. People even try to fly towards it just for fun, that's how exploration should be, more using your eyes than using a scanner.. Imagine if space was totally black and you'd warp into a system where you could see some kind of distant gascloud sitting in space among a thousands of stars, you'd sure get interested and wonder what it was.. Now, here I present to you my list of things needed to improve space: Dark space - Space should be black and filled with stars. Nebula backgrounds should be rare and pretty small, maybe based on how close the system is to it so when you warp to another system it gets bigger or smaller.. No over-use of clouds in the background. Larger planets - Planets should be really HUGE, and stations orbiting them should be doing so at a closer distance, basically the planet should cover more than the entire screen when you look at it.. It's a good way to provide more dynamic environments with a huge shiny planet instead of a static nebula wallpaper. That way you'd get an enviroment change if you'd warp to another planet.. No more "dead" space.. The majority of Missions, belts, stations and most things in the game should be close to a celestial object like a moon or a planet, most planets(irl) are pretty huge so there would be alot of room for things orbiting around it at various distances.. Basically there should always be something to look at as some sort of reference to what size and at what distance things are.. Warptunnels The warptunnels should bend around planets and objects. Would certainly look cool if you warped towards a planet and then the tunnel bent itself around it, with your ship cruising close to it's atmosphere. Too long to read the rest of the thread, but this is what would be awesome. /signed All that's left... There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. Well, there's not many of us left! -Rauth
Jhyme Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.28 11:10:00 - [117] I was going to make a post somewhat like what the OP in the future, but looks like he got to it before me. Basically there's an argument for both a more realistic and a more aesthetically-appealing space art style. Most of the criticisms of the OP have been in the first arena, and frankly I could care less if nebula representation is correct or incorrect, or star systems have binary stars. Trinity has improved the look of ships and stations, and I think planets and environment should be next thing on their list. All the devs should really take the OPs suggestions seriously. A single-player space game like X3 is pretty boring because it's single player, but the type of atmospheric immersion it offers is vastly superior to EVE. If EVE had X3's art direction and music, it would be one step closer to perfection. (Yeah EVE needs a soundtrack update too..., a unique track for important star systems will help add atmosphere, and a low-key ambiance to 0.0 will help add another dimension) There has to be some way to cook up a planet rendering system through procedural generation. It's not that planets have to be necessarily big, but stations and missions should be set in low orbit. CCP over-relies on the color and texture of nebulas to break up the monotomy of space. They should instead rely on planet orbit / moon placement to create a unique feel for planets and systems.
Chronnick Bladerunner	Posted - 2007.12.28 11:48:00 - [118] Just ONE prob with less is more philosophy 1) YES, most of space seems dark and "empty" but if thats all you saw in eve 99% of the time with the rare "easter-egg" nebulae systems from exploration, I think it would get dull fairly swiftly, I really don't believe continuously having a black background with stars would be conducive to an enjoyable gaming experience. 2) Without Nothing to gauge relative size or velocities or contrasts to see dark ships (NO the old camo is cool thing wont work..ships show up on overview) the game would suffer for lack of these visual stimuli as well. GTG EVE is starting up
Kayna Eelai Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.12.28 11:56:00 - [119] u want even darker and emptier space? man, it's boring enough as it is... i wish i could have some world of warcraft cartoonish graphics in eve sometimes... see the leaves of a tree move or a chicken run around. 99% of my playtime in eve is done with a divx window open watching some tv show, anime or movie... apparently that's what i pay every month to CCP: to have more time to watch divx. now the constructive part: what i would like to see: NPC fighting NPC, NPC interacting with the environment (like mining, or so) etc. and when i say NPC i don't necessarily refer to rats we can kill, but something to put a little bit more life into the environment. ofc, what i just suggested would probably affect server load. fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes)
Merritt	Posted - 2007.12.28 12:46:00 - [120] i) No. ii) YES! iii) Yes. iv) Hell no.

Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.28 14:25:00 - [121] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 28/12/2007 14:27:51 Originally by: Chronnick Bladerunner Just ONE prob with less is more philosophy 1) YES, most of space seems dark and "empty" but if thats all you saw in eve 99% of the time with the rare "easter-egg" nebulae systems from exploration, I think it would get dull fairly swiftly, I really don't believe continuously having a black background with stars would be conducive to an enjoyable gaming experience. 2) Without Nothing to gauge relative size or velocities or contrasts to see dark ships (NO the old camo is cool thing wont work..ships show up on overview) the game would suffer for lack of these visual stimuli as well. GTG EVE is starting up 1) You might have missunderstood, I don't want space to be empty.. I'm suggesting that the nebula effects are toned down and not as random.. Most systems will still need something interesting in the background, but it shouldn't cover the entire skybox and giving us this "fishbowl" effect, I mean some systems doesn't even have any black at all in them and look more like a cloudy sky and maybe that's what it looks like close to a nebula, but I don't find it that immersive as it is.. 2)There would still be light sources from the sun and effects in each system to light up ships objects and planets. Taking X3 screens in example: Screen 1 - Black is dominant here, but celestial objects are present to give you a relative feel of size and scale. Screen 2 - Black with faint red in it, alot more discreet and it's not like a wall of clouds engulfing everything. Screen 3 - Strong contrast, and a cool effect which still leaves room for empty space.. The X3 graphics makes almost perfect examples, though I prefer the stars in eve aswell as the ships/stations.. (and gameplay ofc :D) Originally by: Kayna Eelai i wish i could have some world of warcraft cartoonish graphics in eve sometimes... see the leaves of a tree move or a chicken run around. lol, uhm we're talking a sci-fi space game here.. The closest you'll come to chickens running around is probably the stabber hull.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Drykor Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.12.28 14:37:00 - [122] This is probably never going to happen but I'd like the environment to act like true space, I want to approach stations upside down, I don't want my ship to level out after I stop, I don't want there to be an up and a down in space, I don't want them to make odd turns just because they are fixed to the horizontal plane.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.28 16:34:00 - [123] I have a few thoughts... We actually see nothing, we live in our sealed pods and only perceive what it shows us... so if our pod shows us a cloud off in the background, we see a cloud... while there may not be an up and down, our pod allows us to have that reference, so it is our pod, not reality, that gives us the vista's we see... We are basically Visual creatures, so the visuals are there for our comfort. Eve, unlike most other games (or so I have read) was built starting with the Art, then the game was built around the art, where other games have the art built around the game... what we lose in this is the beauty of the emptiness of space... When we take into account the emptiness of space, we can come to understand that there could be a million interesting things in any system, but those items are so small and miniscule compared to the vastness of that system, the proverbial needle in a hay stack... to find that little interesting spot (that may hold no interest beyond the spot itself) would be akin to finding a special single grain of sand on a beach... While I would love to see the visuals described by the OP they are just pod projections, but the some other things in this thread are awesome... we who so control our environment in our pods should be able to tell the pod to stop projecting the background. Larger Planets, this is an optical thing, the Earth (a Planet) is the size of a silver dollar when viewed from the Moon... But unlisted mineable (Ore, ice or Gas) in the rings of some planets, hidden but for close planetary scanning and exploration would be great (perhaps some of these could be "Special" like moon ore), perspective gives the impression a station is as large as the planet it's near... our pod reflects the importance to us, the planet is just interference as we have chosen a life away from those planets. The OP's "Dead Space" (or the lack of it) could be redefined... Dead Space is just that, a point out in the middle of no where, far from planets and moons, or known space... where non-deadspace would be closer to the "Known" areas... where better for a group of evil nasty (NPC) pirates to set up their base but well outside the area that normal probing can find ità Warp Tunnels are another of those Pod Projectionsà that we pass through a planet is just how the pod projects our travel for us to see, it may have nothing to do with the real path we take to get from point A to point B. Planets and Moons Movementà Stations spin endlessly around Moons that spin endlessly around planets, that spin endlessly around sunsà where they are in space at any one time is anyoneÆs guessà but the computers on our ships know where they are, and take us there, regardless of where there isà for our own comfort, our Pod projects that station, Moon and Planet in a single locationà regardless of where it really is. This does throw a wrench into the works with probes, just because we perceive 2 planets/moons to be very close to each other, in reality they may not be, and thus should require a probe each to cover the surrounding spaceà but that is for another thread. --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Xerxes X Minmatar	Posted - 2007.12.28 17:01:00 - [124] Given that Trinity has done a fantastic job on the ships - space and PARTICULARLY the planets need a severe sprucing-up. On top of that, the physics and docking/jumping mechanics need revisiting. A docking sequence and jump sequence would be very good, and could introduce some interesting elements of gameplay. One thing for certain - the undocking and formations we saw in the last Trinity video are very much staged... Xerxes X
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.28 17:49:00 - [125] Originally by: Hamfast I have a few thoughts... Those are just excuses :P And that the pod shows us how we pass through objects, that's a bit too silly for an excuse, Aswell as planets and stations not moving.. Actually the pod doesn't project anything from what I've heard, It just records the surroundings with the cameradrones.. Ofcourse it could record things not visible to the human eye and then translate it into huge clouds, but all these "explantions" as to why things are the way they are won't still make space feel like space.. Here's a (wierd) example :D Let's say in the future bacon and egg tastes like rice and chicken.. And there's a very detailed and realistic explanation as to why, but those of us that want bacon and egg still won't be convinced because we still want bacon and egg.. Sure rice and chicken is nice aswell, but it's not the same thing as bacon and egg.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
CANN0N FODDER	Posted - 2007.12.28 18:15:00 - [126] People have been protesting for years to get the stupid colorful systems replaced with something better, but there has never once been a responce from the devs on the subject. So, don't hold your breath. Also, yeah, bigger stars/planets/moons/etc would be nice as well, but I'd rank that second to not having to look at those system backgrounds. Alas, they don't care.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.12.28 18:27:00 - [127] Originally by: Neth'Rae Originally by: Hamfast I have a few thoughts... Those are just excuses :P And that the pod shows us how we pass through objects, that's a bit too silly for an excuse, Aswell as planets and stations not moving.. Actually the pod doesn't project anything from what I've heard, It just records the surroundings with the cameradrones.. Ofcourse it could record things not visible to the human eye and then translate it into huge clouds, but all these "explantions" as to why things are the way they are won't still make space feel like space.. Here's a (wierd) example :D Let's say in the future bacon and egg tastes like rice and chicken.. And there's a very detailed and realistic explanation as to why, but those of us that want bacon and egg still won't be convinced because we still want bacon and egg.. Sure rice and chicken is nice aswell, but it's not the same thing as bacon and egg.. They better not change Bacon and eggs ... It has been determined that most Pod Pilots go totally insane if the pod projects the true emptiness of space ... They have been known to black out for extended periods if the true warp path is shown where the projection of "Passing through" planets is more readily accepted because of the extra planar nature of warp travel ... Pod pilots, being by their very nature creatures used to gravity, get disoriented when faced with weightlessness in space... Excuses? yes, they sure are, just like the Warp path should be like a roller coaster ride avoiding the planets that warp mechanics allow us to pass through (Warping puts us out of phase with the space around us) because we pod pilots can't handle passing through a planet. --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Admiral Pieg Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.28 18:28:00 - [128] i couldnt agree more with the op, and i think you should link some of those X3 pictures to your original post so that people can see what you mean. ______________ Pod from above.
Conrad Rock Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.28 18:41:00 - [129] You know this because you are an astronaut?
Trilori Caldari GearBox Fleet Svcs	Posted - 2007.12.28 18:54:00 - [130] Actually I did like the empty blackness pre-trinity there was a problem with the client sometime not loading the nebulae background clouds. I could see things better too! I have played a very old MMO called Jumpgate, this game resembles a lot of what the OP is describing. If anybody has played this game, this is it. I don't know about freelancer, never heard of it and I would check it out actually (if it exists still). Before I jump around, I'd like to tell you a bit about jumpgate I actually like their starmaps you can see where storms are, and swarms (that is a term used to identify a large amount of NPC sitting at a jumpgate at a star system). The cool thing about clouds was it hindered flight visiability and you had limited ability to see your target so you relied on radar and scanners to locate your target AND to navigate because if you didn't you WILL crash (whether it is a station, roid, or another ship, even the jumpgate). I know eve will never implement "crash" because of the close proximity we fly and believe me I know... every time I undock from Jita 4-4 I'm always being bumped when aligning for warp and spun around 360 or being rolled around like a rolling pin! Jumpgate Evolution is coming out, I signed up to be informed about their beta they aren't even in beta yet but I have seen a couple screenshots of their concepts which I hope to see. Things look bolder in black space IMO, unfortunately Jumpgate Evolution will not be black space they think people do not want to see black "gloomy" space because they want to get away from the depression of real life. I quite frankly disagree, so I like your ideas OP, reduce the nebulae or create variety/variables!!! :)

Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.28 18:55:00 - [131] OP /Signed Agree 100%, there is just too much crap and most of it looks bad tbh. Amarr Laser Cat Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.28 19:53:00 - [132] Originally by: Conrad Rock You know this because you are an astronaut? Gah, If some people would bother to read the thread I wouldn't have to be annoyed by their ignorance.. I don't care about realism.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Lunadi Minmatar Solar Trade	Posted - 2007.12.28 20:53:00 - [133] For me the look of EVE is ok. Being colorful and full of nebulas is it's artistic style that one may like or not. I like this style, and when I show it to friends they are almost always impressed. However I agree with some remarks & have a few of my own: - it feels like you are in a bowl or sphere (especially when rotating camera in panoramic mode) - very very flat - it's too much of the same (no fun when exploring after a few weeks of play) - planets are very unrealistic (including the terrible fly thru) - it's extremely static - the use of sound in the game to create atmosphere is well.. crude (if not pathetic)
Trilori Caldari GearBox Fleet Svcs	Posted - 2007.12.28 22:28:00 - [134] Originally by: Lunadi For me the look of EVE is ok. Being colorful and full of nebulas is it's artistic style that one may like or not. I like this style, and when I show it to friends they are almost always impressed. However I agree with some remarks & have a few of my own: - it feels like you are in a bowl or sphere (especially when rotating camera in panoramic mode) - very very flat - it's too much of the same (no fun when exploring after a few weeks of play) - planets are very unrealistic (including the terrible fly thru) - it's extremely static - the use of sound in the game to create atmosphere is well.. crude (if not pathetic) Planetary fly through is acurate according to CCP, when you are in warp you are displacing space at least thats the "basic" understanding I know about I don't know all the technical stuff concerning warp drive and warping in real space but anyone with science major in space would know what I'm talking about. So flying through planets and stations and even other ships during warp is possible; It is only when you are not in warp it is not possible.. I've tried it myself.
Jhyme Amarr Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.30 10:35:00 - [135] If none of the OP's good ideas go through, the very least they could do is at least up the texture resolution on the planets.
Ralara	Posted - 2007.12.30 11:29:00 - [136] Originally by: DJ P I must disagree. If you live in a planetary system 200 ly from Orion Nebula, it will be HUGE. It will even cast shadows and brighten up the night like day. Um, you know it's only 24 odd light years across, right?
Cihl	Posted - 2007.12.30 23:12:00 - [137] I always had that idea ever since i started playing EVE that space should be mostly black with stars in most places, like the OP said. I had a graphics glitch a while ago, due to old drivers or something, that removed the wallpapers. Sigh of relief at first. If it wasn't for the weird effects during warp, i'd never have updated those drivers. I also get the idea that full cloaking wouldn't be necessary either if space were black. Just something that removes your signature. Reminds me of an episode of Battlestar Galactica. Would make people capable of spotting you if they just kept looking hard enough and you flew between them and a planet or star or something like that.
Jebari	Posted - 2007.12.30 23:48:00 - [138] I think the resolutions used on the planet textures is my only complaint. Seems they used a much lower resolution for planet textures than everything else. If they bump those up it will make the plaents seem not only more life like, but also realistic in size
Cilvius Sanctus	Posted - 2007.12.31 00:25:00 - [139] /signed More variety in space for my favorite space game? Yes please.
Hendelse Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.12.31 14:18:00 - [140] /signed!

Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2008.01.01 17:00:00 - [141] Still no trace of any devs, I'd love to know how they plan to further enchance the graphics in eve, and space in particular :> But if I had to choose between this and ambulation, I'd choose this.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
SiJira	Posted - 2008.01.01 21:30:00 - [142] i bet space will become even less empty with all the new graphics you can only expect more shiny Trashed sig, Shark was here
Rjaiajik Kajvoril Amarr Autonomous Systems	Posted - 2008.01.03 11:28:00 - [143] /signed DEFINATELY! RickRoll Avoidance Trolling EVE Knowledge


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