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Space in EVE doesn't feel like space..

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Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:11:00 - [1] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:15:25 The only time I feel like I'm in space is when I look at the starmap, because it makes the world feel a universe.. Otherwise it's just like I'm floating around in a giantbox and I think alot of people agree.. It's like a huge room with nebula wallpaper and my ship is just a little toy, warping around to these floating objects.. A lot of games have a huge advantage over EVE and that's the environment, it changes depending on where you go and it's fun to explore.. Now I'm not saying the environment in EVE doesn't change, it's just that there's no point warping around exploring for the sake of experiencing new environments. Basically everything continues in the same pattern with some minor variety, It's not like I sit down and wonder what it looks like 10 jumps away, I know it will be the same thing with stations, belts and this nebula wallpaper. Now I remember Freelancer and how fun it was to explore, basically because things were different and you'd find new things, though you also you controlled the ship in realtime and for obvious reasons that will (probably) never be possible in EVE.. So now I wonder what CCP will do with the graphics update comming next to keep space interesting.. And I sure as hell hope you guys aren't just making new Nebula backgrounds, geez I'm really tired at those, if space was mostly black without nebula clouds everywhere it would make the environment more interesting because once you'd see a nebula cloud you'd probably think it was pretty cool.. Less is more and I wish the devs would understand that, at the moment every system is so unqiue that being unique isn't unique at all and the backgrounds get dull.. I wasn't playing eve at that time but I've heard there was a bug that removed the nebula backgrounds and people rejoiced. :D So will we ever see the vast dark empty space.. In trinity a star was added which can be seen from all over EVE and has everyone wondering what it is.. People even try to fly towards it just for fun, that's how exploration should be, more using your eyes than scanning.. Imagine if space was totally black and you'd warp into a system where you could see some kind of distant gascloud sitting in space among a thousands of stars, you'd sure get interested and wonder what it was.. Now, here I present to you my list of things to improve space: Dark space - Space should be black and filled with stars. Nebula backgrounds should be rare and pretty small, maybe based on how close the system is to it so when you warp to another system it gets bigger or smaller.. No over-use of clouds in the background. Larger planets - Planets should be really HUGE, and stations orbiting them should be doing so at a closer distance, basically the planet should cover more than the entire screen when you look at it.. It's a good way to provide more dynamic environments with a huge shiny planet instead of a static nebula wallpaper. That way you'd get an enviroment change if you'd warp to another planet.. No more "dead" space.. The majority of Missions, belts, stations and most things in the game should be close to a celestial object like a moon or a planet, most planets(irl) are pretty huge so there would be alot of room for things orbiting around it at various distances.. Basically there should always be something to look at as some sort of reference to what size and at what distance things are.. Warptunnels The warptunnels should bend around planets and objects. Would certainly look cool if you warped towards a planet and then the tunnel bent itself around it, with your ship cruising close to it's atmosphere. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:14:00 - [2] /signed - DesuSigs
Mallikan Gallente Spartan Hoplites Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:19:00 - [3] Some nebulae would be cool, but not the crazy amount currently in EVE. So yeah, I agree. --- lol.. I messed up.
Azrael Maxim Flexible Demeanour	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:22:00 - [4] Agree
Kessiaan	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:22:00 - [5] I always figured the deal with the backgrounds was that you're getting an 'enhanced' feed from your camera drones that shows a lot stuff that's not visible to the naked eye. But yes, black space would be nice. ----- My in Eve Profile
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:28:00 - [6] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:30:34 Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:29:45 Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 07:29:19 I can also add that I was really inspired by the planets in X3: Reunion. I saw someone make a reference to it and linking some screens on the forums when discussing planets and it looks really amazing, the backgrounds still look really busy but at least it's a bit discreet.. I realized the importance of being near a celestial object though. When I look at the screens it really feels alot like space and gives that extra feel for how large and vast space is. Screens for those who hasn't seen: One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Smakko Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:30:00 - [7] I disagree. Space is not empty, and the reason most of it appears to be without color is because our visual sense only perceives a small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. It makes more sense that in the future, from the helm of a great machine that extends and enhances our capabilities and senses, that we would see space very differently from how we perceive it, today. Just as a microscope or telescope allows us to see things in new ways, biological enhancements, cybernetic upgrades, or other enhancements to our physical bodies will give us a different way to see the world around us.
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:38:00 - [8] Originally by: Smakko ... the reason most of it appears to be without color is because our visual sense only perceives a small part of the electromagnetic spectrum. It makes more sense that in the future, from the helm of a great machine that extends and enhances our capabilities and senses, that we would see space very differently from how we perceive it, today. Yes, but that's not really relevant to us because of our perception of space(irl) at the moment. Even though I doubt that's the explanation behind it, I don't think it's a good argument. We as human beings can only relate to things we have a certain perception of. So for example, saying "this is what egg and bacon taste like in the future.." isn't really gonna make us relate it to egg and bacon anyways unless it taste like the bacon and egg we know of. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.12.25 07:42:00 - [9] I agree with the how fun it was to explore freelancer the first time. I've still got it installed on my PC... lol. But yeah, more flying around and finding things that are unexpected would be cool, not just the same stations, belts, deadspace depots (which i never seem to be in the right ship type for), and all that stuff ____________________ Hi. I'm not an alt :)
Smakko Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.12.25 08:00:00 - [10] Originally by: Neth'Rae Yes, but that's not really relevant to us because of our perception of space(irl) at the moment. Have you ever seen a nebula with the naked eye? Did you know that the pictures that NASA and other international space agencies publish of astronomical phenomenae is heavily edited and processed as to accentuate and dramatize the impact of the images? You say that you "doubt that's the explanation behind [the prevalence of nebulae in the game]," the fact remains that "our perception of space" currently is already greatly colored (look ma i make pun) by the application of natural-sense-boosting technology. Human beings can not only relate to things we have a direct perception of, such as things we directly see or touch, but also have a very strong perception of things that only exist in our imagination. Has anyone actually sent a satellite out to the edges of the solar system and taken a photograph of the entire solar system? No, and it is unlikely that a panoramic photo of the solar system will ever be taken, do to the astronomical distances involved. However, in our minds eye, it is quite possible to have a very clear and distinct perception of the entire solar system, moving in concert, constantly and dynamically changing. On one hand, I'm against what you propose because you're asking for a toning down of the look and feel of a game based on a perception of reality that does not have a basis in scientific fact. On the other hand, I'm against what you're saying, just because I like the look of the artwork, which has nothing to do with science, and only my personal preference for dramatic color over stark, black space.

Pharos Dei Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2007.12.25 08:50:00 - [11] completely agree with the OP, these relativly little things would make eve soooo much more appealing to people Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected])
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Smakko Originally by: Neth'Rae Yes, but that's not really relevant to us because of our perception of space(irl) at the moment. Have you ever seen a nebula with the naked eye? Did you know that the pictures that NASA and other international space agencies publish of astronomical phenomenae is heavily edited and processed as to accentuate and dramatize the impact of the images? You say that you "doubt that's the explanation behind [the prevalence of nebulae in the game]," the fact remains that "our perception of space" currently is already greatly colored (look ma i make pun) by the application of natural-sense-boosting technology. Human beings can not only relate to things we have a direct perception of, such as things we directly see or touch, but also have a very strong perception of things that only exist in our imagination. Has anyone actually sent a satellite out to the edges of the solar system and taken a photograph of the entire solar system? No, and it is unlikely that a panoramic photo of the solar system will ever be taken, do to the astronomical distances involved. However, in our minds eye, it is quite possible to have a very clear and distinct perception of the entire solar system, moving in concert, constantly and dynamically changing. On one hand, I'm against what you propose because you're asking for a toning down of the look and feel of a game based on a perception of reality that does not have a basis in scientific fact. On the other hand, I'm against what you're saying, just because I like the look of the artwork, which has nothing to do with science, and only my personal preference for dramatic color over stark, black space. I don't exclude any kind of Imagination or abstract thinking when I'm talking about perception.. Our perception of things is built on alot of imagination aswell and that's why it sometimes differ from reality.. Perception basically means what we associate something with, or well how we perceive it. My point is that space shouldn't be that much different from how we percieve it (what we think it should be) in our minds/imagination, because of some reason like realism or because it's like that in the future, what matters is what we think here and now. Ofcourse peoples perception of space can be pretty different and with a little imagination even wider, and I can't say that EVE isn't within it's boundaries, but it stretches them quite alot, at least for me. That's why I'd prefer it they'd go back and tone it down a bit, for that more spacey feeling.. And well I haven't seen a nebula with my own eyes and I think that's one reason why we should keep them rare in-game. I do prefer "less is more" when it comes to something you're exposed to alot. The most important thing for me is getting rid of this "boxed" feeling I get when undocking, with alot of nebula clouds you don't get that feeling that space is deep and endless.. It just looks more like a skybox to me.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Neth'Rae Now, here I present to you my list of things to improve space: Dark space - Space should be black and filled with stars. Nebula backgrounds should be rare and pretty small, maybe based on how close the system is to it so when you warp to another system it gets bigger or smaller.. No over-use of clouds in the background. Larger planets - Planets should be really HUGE, and stations orbiting them should be doing so at a closer distance, basically the planet should cover more than the entire screen when you look at it.. It's a good way to provide more dynamic environments with a huge shiny planet instead of a static nebula wallpaper. That way you'd get an enviroment change if you'd warp to another planet.. No more "dead" space.. The majority of Missions, belts, stations and most things in the game should be close to a celestial object like a moon or a planet, most planets(irl) are pretty huge so there would be alot of room for things orbiting around it at various distances.. Basically there should always be something to look at as some sort of reference to what size and at what distance things are.. Warptunnels The warptunnels should bend around planets and objects. Would certainly look cool if you warped towards a planet and then the tunnel bent itself around it, with your ship cruising close to it's atmosphere. /seconded.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Tugris Gautama	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:09:00 - [14] Have you played the first Homeworld? One of the things I liked is that the background would change to reflect the fact that you were gradually getting closer to the center of the galaxy. If they are to keep the nebula backgrounds for technical reasons, it would be at least a nice compromise if those backgrounds depended on your relative position in the Eve universe and not an arbitrary/random mix of color and textures like it is now. It would make the systems look less isolated, part of something bigger, and when going on a journey you could say "I'm going to that nebula over there" and see it getting closer and closer as you progress.
DJ P	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:37:00 - [15] I must disagree. If you live in a planetary system 200 ly from Orion Nebula, it will be HUGE. It will even cast shadows and brighten up the night like day. Our Solar system is bit remote.(Places on the Orion spiral arm) If we move closer to the galactic core, night doesn't exist actualy. Stars are packed close (in astronomical terms), wrapped in dusty clouds all over. Regarding the stations they orbit the moons not the planets. And it's not feasable to be placed in close orbit around a planet. Especialy with the mass they have, the amount of fuel to burn so they can not be pulled from the gravity is enormous. The only way to avoid this is high orbits. (Have you seen how small the Earth looks from the Moon?) Warptunnels should be placed where the wormholes exists. A warpgate is nothing more than a beacon of where the wormhole is. Merry XMAS
Kavol Valarius Amarr Unity of Honor Legion of Honor	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:45:00 - [16] I'm afraid I have to agree with the OP. Completely. I love the backgrounds but I'll be honest, they BLIND ME. -----
Emelia Brighteyes	Posted - 2007.12.25 09:47:00 - [17] Another prob is that there is no UP or DOWN in real space but in eve there is. I understand it for oreintation purposes but it also sucks variety out of the game as we can never properly fly on planets until that is tweaked youd be flying upside down on one side then right side up on another or planet would be to left or right. I was hop[ing they would fix scale in trinity but they didnt not only are actual hsip sizes still sort of badly made as in i think a bs with 5000+ passengers should be alot bigger then a 50man frig! And the windows also need to be fixed in scale like station windows are way to small compared to BS windows. Ok way of topic i know but pet hates :P.
BtHatch Boli Me Kurc	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:06:00 - [18] Agreed. In reality, only small amounts of solar systems would have nebula large and close enough to be actually visible. And i'd kill for open-ended universe without limitation of stargates. Stargates should be conviniency, not necessity:> Mmmm... player built stargates :>
Ix Forres Vanguard Frontiers Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:20:00 - [19] An excellent summary from Neth here- having played quite a few space games in my time (Freelancer, the X series) that is the one advantage they have over EVE. That and there's real density to space in those games- space isn't empty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_Medium). The clouds and such at exploration sites and deadspaces should not be one-off instances- such clouds in lower density (think system-sized versions of the current clouds) would help, for a start. Blog
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:22:00 - [20] Agreed. Ditching the candyfloss backgrounds is a common request. It's bad, it's old, and it needs replacing. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles

Lelulie	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:25:00 - [21] Massively agree. I had a friend watch me play eve a bit ago, I was in a systen with a cloudy background and he thought it looked like I was supposed to be in some planets atmosphere. The silly cloudy backgrounds of certain systems and massive nebulas everywhere put him off playing alltogether. Mostly back space with rare coloured space and nebulas would be much better.
Kw4h Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:35:00 - [22] Agreed here aswell. I suggest trying something like black space, and less ambient light on the test server for a day, and see how people respond. Would love to see how it would work out. _ Planet Sight Wallpaper - EvE map
Neth'Rae Gallente Neth's Workshop	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:44:00 - [23] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 25/12/2007 10:50:55 Originally by: DJ P I must disagree. If you live in a planetary system 200 ly from Orion Nebula, it will be HUGE. It will even cast shadows and brighten up the night like day. Our Solar system is bit remote.(Places on the Orion spiral arm) If we move closer to the galactic core, night doesn't exist actualy. Stars are packed close (in astronomical terms), wrapped in dusty clouds all over. Regarding the stations they orbit the moons not the planets. And it's not feasable to be placed in close orbit around a planet. Especialy with the mass they have, the amount of fuel to burn so they can not be pulled from the gravity is enormous. The only way to avoid this is high orbits. (Have you seen how small the Earth looks from the Moon?) Warptunnels should be placed where the wormholes exists. A warpgate is nothing more than a beacon of where the wormhole is. Merry XMAS By warptunnels I mean the tunnel effect you get when warping.. And well yeah, the nebulas might be realistic if say the system is really close to the nebula.. But it's not gonna work in eve, because it's like; for each system you jump to it's close to a completely different nebula because the backgrounds are completely randomized and in different colors for each system you jump to.. About the stations in low-orbit, you're right.. but that doesn't matter in EVE where ships starts burning when they reach hull and your ship stops if you turn off the thrusters.. The coolness factor would greatly overweight any realism imo :P Originally by: Emelia Brighteyes Another prob is that there is no UP or DOWN in real space but in eve there is. I understand it for oreintation purposes but it also sucks variety out of the game as we can never properly fly on planets until that is tweaked youd be flying upside down on one side then right side up on another or planet would be to left or right.... Yeah that's actually the first thing I was dissappointed about when it came to EVE, I would add it to the list if it wasn't for the fact that ships arn't designed to be viewed from any angle.. and Neither are stations.. All designs in-game are actually based on UP/DOWN.. Which might be pointless to rant about because I doubt it will change, but having no up or down would greatly improve on the feeling of real space.. Might be cool if they made an option to turn of the "stabilize camera" so you could rotate it around and get that spacey feeling.. Request signatures at EVE-GFX
Dave White Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.12.25 10:55:00 - [24] Couldn't agree more. Originally by: Illyria Ambri Goonie posts are like coke... sure its entertaining in the beginning.. but the more you get the lower your IQ becomes.
Beor0d Congregatio Solidus Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:15:00 - [25] The only things i miss are bigger Planets and more dynamic ingame which means for me: More Ships flying around (NPC's) and doing several things and maybe belts looking different. _______________________ hmmm....
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:19:00 - [26] Originally by: Neth'Rae Screens for those who hasn't seen: One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Holy crap those look awesome and def. more spcae like then EvE does. - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:27:00 - [27] As long as your changes dont advesly affect performance of game id support some of those. However as i am currently running an experiment as to how long a 2001 p31000mhz 815 EP chipset can run EVE, (doing fine so far) i am warry of decreased performance.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:28:00 - [28] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 25/12/2007 11:28:57 People should also be away eve is not a fully galaxy. It is a cluster of stars god only knows where. Although I believe Point of No Return is supposed to be more or less the "center" or the known areas of New Eden. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:32:00 - [29] especialy the death space.. one of the very bad idea`s they came up with.. ->My Vids<-
Nemoss	Posted - 2007.12.25 11:42:00 - [30] Agree



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